Any feedback on The Art Institute? [Archive]

bboyrealm

February 21st, 2005, 10:31 PM

I'm currently attending the Art Institute of California-San Diego since it first opened its new doors south of its original campus due to the increase in attendance. I've known some people who have graduated and still haven't found that dream job. I'm a Media Arts & Animation major and will finish up in four weeks. I'm happy to finish yet the job market doesn't look too good. Most employers want someone with at least 2+ years experience. As for internships, most of my friends and I did it all on our own. Career Services is a great place but they take a while in regards to assisting students, so we sought our internships on our own and landed them on our own. Overall, it's an okay school and there are more out there, but I'm not trying to shoot them down. I've learned some things if not a whole lot in regards to 2D animation, 3D animation, digital audio, character design, and of course video editing. To top it off, I've met really great people whom I hope to work with alongside in the industry one day!

PaulGanguly

February 23rd, 2005, 05:31 PM

Here's what I know about the Art Institue schools in general.

1. They do not require portfolios for admission. This omits the entire screening process whereby a school ensures that their students are of a certain caliber.

2. They are not (in most cases) state accredited colleges. Thus, you can neither transfer credits into them, or out of them. They are standalone institutes, whose final certifications carry no more clout than an employer decides to place in it.

3. One of the key differences between the AI schools and other art schools is that the AI schools are for-profit organizations, wheras most educational institutions are not-for-profit organizations. What's the difference? Schools like AI are businesses. It is their goal foremost to make money. They do not have deans, they have CFO's and Owners.

Now, do the above reasons mean that they're not a good school? Not necessarily, but it is exceedingly more likely that they're not quite as good as say, a state school, let alone more prestigious organizations like the Art Center College of Design, Rhode Island School of Design, School of the Art Institute of Chicago, Ringling, SCAD, or any number of others, all of which require a portfolio for admission, and make students face varying degrees of competitiveness to be admitted into them.

Now, will your portfolio be sub-par upon graduation?
That's up to you. You will find that there is always a degree of dedication that a student has to devote to their own education, as far as perfecting techniques, making sure that their goals are being met in their work, etc. At a school where there every student is working at an advanced level from the moment of entry, and the instructor's expetations are exceptionally high, then there is less likelihood that the students work outside of class has to make up for what they are not learning in class.

AI differs here in that there are varying degrees of student's readiness to enter the working world, and as a result, there is no concensus as to what they level of work should be. Thus, there is likely to be one or two amazing students, a great many average students, then at least an equal number of awful students.

Thus, the students who are good, aren't being challenged to get better, the average students likely improve a little, and the awful students become average, at best.

You can see that the difference between this situation, and any school that requires a portfolio is that each and every student begins at a higher level, and that there is much less diversity of skill levels. Thus, students are placed with students who's work challenges them to do something better than their peers each time they have a project due.

What is guaranteed, however, is that not having a degree from a state-accredited college will mean that you will never be able to teach, as you do not have a degree that doesn't have a state's certification board behind it, like one from any other university does.

*EDIT*
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (or SAIC) is NOT affiliated with the rest of the AI schools throughout the country. The AI schools are so named for institutions like the SAIC so that students will confuse them with more prestigious schools, so as to take on the air of a more qualified school.

Imajus

March 5th, 2005, 11:14 AM

This is speaking for the Art Institute of Pittsburgh, which in my opinion, is a good school for 3D animation and game art. In fact it does require a portfolio for admissions and a second more advanced one if you want to enter the game art and design program. Animation students have to take drawing reviews throughout their programs so the instructors can let them know what level they are at and where they should be. Also it is a state accredited college who has a dean and all that good stuff. They have a good selection of gen ed and in most cases are pretty good about taking transfer credits. I think it's one of the cheaper AI's as well.

helicopterr

March 8th, 2005, 12:06 AM

When you say a school is prestigious, does it mean it is going to be good? Also, it might just be that a school has a really good graduate program but only a so so undergraduate program! So I think its better to just go and check out the school yourself and make the decision based mostly on that. For me I went to the art and technology department at the SAIC and they were doing some pretty exciting stuff....although I hate to say it but I could just get some of those things from the local hardware store and figure things out myself....

fallingh2o

March 8th, 2005, 07:53 PM

from what i know of art institute schools, theyre not that competitive nor prestigious. this excludes the school of the art institute of chicago (which isnt associated with AI schools). some AI schools arent accredited either.

if ur looking for good schools, look at

art center college of design
risd
yale
school of the art institute of chicago
cal arts

doubleedged

March 20th, 2005, 01:06 AM

I'm getting into this whole art thing a bit late... I've spent my whole life just doing random doodles that aren't very good, and have just started getting serious about it (11th grade in high school...)
What do you guys think of going to one of the AI schools just to get myself set up and then using my experience there to get into a decent art school? Would I be better off taking another path or does this seem like a good idea?
thanks in advance.

PaulGanguly

March 20th, 2005, 07:31 PM

You're not supposed to be a 'serious artist' in high school. That being said, if you can forsee yourself doing art in some capacity or another for the rest of your life then you ought to invest in at least a pretty good art school.

Furthermore, if you want to transfer to another school, you won't be able to with credits from the various AI schools.

If you want to start somewhere, I'd suggest a Community College in your town, or a state school somewhere near home.

The level of education offered at an AI school almost positively can't be any better than that offered at a state school. Credits at a state school however, won't be difficult to transfer if you decide that you don't want to remain in the art field.

If you decide however that art isn't your thing, and you're stuck at a school that offers only art, then you won't be exposed to anything else that you may want to focus your studies on. If 6 months into it, you realize that art isn't what you want to do, then you have wasted 6 months, because you can't transfer credits out of that school.

The AI school is such a school, whereas at a state school, you can recieve a liberal arts education, and transfer credits out of it, if you decide to go into another major, or perhaps transfer to a 'better' school elsewhere.

Flint

March 21st, 2005, 08:58 AM

Flee from CIA

Serious. Go to Metro or CU Denver. ACC... anywhere but there, oh ya, flee from Rocky Mountain Colege of Art and Design as well. CIA is an unaccreddited diploma mill. As in "Art Degree from Ronco!" An expensive and useless untransferable pile of educational mediocrity. It wont get you work, it wont transfer to a real college either so if you later decide to get a real degree that may help your career, every minute you spent at CIA is wasted because you have to take the same classes over to get real credit for them.

I went many a year ago and dropped it as I saw the writing on the wall. The place was pretty expensive and was vomiting out droves of poorly educated artists with mundane, cookie cutter portfolios who could not get a job in the field. This was back in the late 80s-early 90s. Back then I learned SO MUCH MORE in my High School area vocational course for graphic design than CIA, CIA never even got close to the sh*t I already knew. The vocational course got me into places because I learned how to run a stat camera and film developing/processing and I was able to work my way into the field through pre press. CIA got me zip... nada. What I learned there that was of any use I could write on a single sticky.

Back then was when computers were taking over the design field. Anyone wanting to get into an agency needed computer skills and software knowlege. Yet the common sight was students dragging those big ass portfolio cases around with a wooden drawing board and t-square in them. There was a short computer course but there was no computer design skill being imparted and it was definitely not finding it's way into the student's portfolios.

Counselors from ACC despise CIA, because they get to deliver the gut punch to CIA alumni all the time. "Your Institute degree and credit don't mean a thing here or ANYWHERE". Many tears are shed. Serious.

When working at a pre-press hell hole later on the joke was (when referring to applicants for a job), " Oh I see you have a Associates from (insert CIA, Rocky Mountain or Parks), that's nice. Do you have a valid drivers license?" (Implication: you are qualified to be a delivery driver, and thats it)

No amount of talk or testimony could ever convince me that the institutes have ever changed from fleecing young artists, to actually imbuing them with even a miniscule amount of useful knowlege. Flee to a real school.

PaulGanguly

March 21st, 2005, 01:21 PM

Wow, it's good to see that someone who actually went there wasn't suckered into staying there, and wasting their time.

The only reason I've posted the above is because I thought about going there, and did just a little bit of research, and once it hit me (with a little coersion from my brother who knows all the ins and outs of university admissions) I realized that the whole thing was a farce, and really misled their "customers" (I wont' even say students).

Since then, several very talented friends of mine have considered going there, and as soon as I found out that an AI school had made it to their short list of prospective schools, I made sure they knew everything that I know about the place, so that they could at least make an informed decision. Fortunately, they opted not to go there, and mildly kicked themselves for even being suckered into considering it.

pmiles

March 25th, 2005, 08:48 PM

All schools are for profit, don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

Art degrees art not stepping stones to a Doctorate... most colleges and universities will reject credits earned in pursuit of such degrees. You're not exactly studying rocket science... if you were a genius in academics, odds are you wouldn't have pursued art as a career.

Portfolios are used as a means to reduce the number of prospective applicants in any given school year. If you are academically strong and financially well off, you're higher on the list than those who are academically weak or in need of financial aid. It's simple economics.

Remember this above all else, it is not where you go to school or how much that you spend on your education that makes you talented. Your effort and desire are what does this. Educators are just facilitators. All the real work and talent lie in your own hands.

CagedDemon

March 26th, 2005, 09:32 PM

I had planned to go the CIA myself - then I read this thread - as much as I agree with the idea that 'your education is in your own hands'... it means very little when you realize that the CIA is overpriced and isn't even really recognized by other schools and most likely many potential employers.

I wish I hadn't applied to only the Art Institute, but it seems a little late for that wish to come true - at least I haven't taken out any loans yet.

What is the ACC?

-Thanks for the advice Flint.

pmiles

March 27th, 2005, 04:28 PM

ACC = Art Center College of Design
http://www.artcenter.edu/

The school is not cheap, very hard to get into, and many students who start the program, never finish. Just because you graduate from the school doesn't mean squat to a potential employer. The school may have a reputation for a particular type of program, but in the end, if they don't see any talent in your work, your 4.0 GPA might as well have been bought off the internet. The piece of paper that you earn is only as important as the value you put in it, it will not open any doors for you, it will only appease some HR person who is only concerned about whether or not you meet the minimum requirements for an interview.

Plenty of people shell out well over $100K to go to school only to find themselves working in jobs that they could have got without going to school at all. Again, school is just a facilitator. You will only get out of it what you put into it. Many people expect the school to push them. It doesn't work that way. It's not their job to push you, it's yours. If you're one of those types that thinks a 4.0 means something, your in for a rude awakening. It comes down to your work and your work only. There are some extemely talented people out there that will never go to an art school, they will just show up at an interview, show their work, and get the job over someone who just spent $100K on their education. A good school is a fine place to start, but even a mediocre school has been known to have some pretty impressive talent pass through their doors. Are these people any less talented for having not gone to a prestigious art school? They were talented when they started and made the program into one that worked for them. All they sought after was an opportunity to practice, not a diploma.

Flint

April 1st, 2005, 11:04 PM

That is also a statement about inate talent and design sense, + exposure to industry standard software/practices VS education...

One thing to make sure of if buying an education program at any educational institution, is do they really deliver the exposure to software and industry that you are hoping to break into. Or do they offer a nice brocure with all kinds of conversational fluff. CIA has a nice brocure but when I went there it was all BS and Fluff.

ACC = Arapahoe Community College. It's a place to go to earn credit to break into a better school if your high school years were not lusterous enough to gain entry to said real school. In the mean time you can pick up some things and work towards an associates degree, cheaper and transferrable. Much better than CIA in the long run.

Community colleges are also a cheaper and better way to get the pre-requisites out of the way so you spend your real $$ on the relevant courses at the more prestigious school of your choice...

However. no school is perfect. For instance at ACC I taught the illustration teacher they had back then about reflective light source in the first hour of the first class..., next day I got grilled by the painting teacher because I held her to the course's stated curriculim and wanted to work in acrylic instead of oils, forcing her to split the class, ( I was poor plus had little little children, and didn't want the chemicals, turp etc... in my house ) I dropped and went on my own and am working as an illustrator w/o a degree. That does sometimes present problems. Oh well.

I still would like to go to school, and I support anyone's wish to do so, but you definitely have to be very picky about what you are buying, which is in the end, solely, credentials to get the HR bean counting f-ball to forward your resume upstairs to the Art Director, and from there it's all on your portfolio and experience, then it's for real.

pmiles

April 2nd, 2005, 12:49 PM

Flint has learned the most valuable lesson of all and perhaps that is just as important as earning a degree. Some people come away with a piece of paper having learned nothing... others come away with a better understanding of themselves, their world, or on some particular subject.

I agree wholeheartedly about going to a community college to finish off one's GE's... get yourself an AA degree and your GE's are almost half done when you get into a 4 year BFA program. Nothing says you can't attend a community college and an art school or a university at the same time. I split my summers at home at a local community college and away taking extra courses at the university. Saved me about $5K easy and that was nearly 10 years ago when education was much cheaper than it is now.

If you are going to an Art Institute (Art Institutes International)... if possible, live at home... the housing available where the schools are located are very expensive. Definitely do your GE's at a local community college, you'll get a better education in the long run plus shave off a good $10K- 15K off your education costs. Be forewarned though, you will be held to the same academic level as any pre-university student, so many of the classes offered are not going to be the cakewalk that an Art Institute offers. I about fell over when I saw that the highest level math at an Art Institute was still teaching fractions. Calculus is the lowest level math class that you can take for credit at a university. This inequity in courses is why no credits transfer to other institutions... your being taught remedial level GE courses by comparison.

The course curriculum is their idea of the ideal curriculum. The smart students do not follow it. They tailor the classes to fit their needs, and substitute courses often. Remember that most programs in the AI are geared to a generic industry guideline... meaning if you want to be an Illustrator, you need to tailor your classes to that goal, otherwise you'll spend time in a whole host of classes that are designed to give you a taste of a variety of different specialities in a given profession. Enough to tell you that you like this or dislike that, but not enough to provide you with enough solid background in a specific area upon graduation... unless you alter the curriculum.

Perhaps the biggest thing you should know about the AI's is that they are too fast... it's one thing for a star performer to decide to go to school year round to get in more practice, but it is quite another thing to force the lesser talented individuals to keep up a pace which ultimately tosses them back out onto the streets before they are ready. There is no hurry to get a degree. The more time you spend on your studies and portfolio the better off you will be. Few students graduate on schedule from any school... when you are in a compressed program, if you graduate a year later, you're actually graduating on time from most other institutions. It's sort of like saying, we can teach you your entire high school years in just half the time... do you really think getting through high school quickly is going to benefit you in the long run? Part of what employers are looking for is a little well-roundedness in the head... you've been around the block some and have some common sense and judgement to back up that piece of paper. Being book smart and being able to think on your feet are two different things.

dadamafia

April 4th, 2005, 03:44 PM

This CIA everyone os talking about, is it the Cleveland Institue of Art?

IanE

April 4th, 2005, 04:58 PM

California Institute of Art, I think... it's pretty amazing from what I've read on their website.

I'm currently accepted to AI in Houston, TX and considering going to Full Sail because it's cheaper and better... the Animation program at AI seems to focus more on art history and traditional art rather than solid PC Animation, and also they use 3ds Max and not Maya, and Maya seems to be the tool for any big studio right now. It's really a matter of how much you can spend, how long you can stay in school, if moving will affect you or not and all those factors...

Personally I feel something lacking in AI, but I might go there because of where I live and costs and such...

pmiles

April 4th, 2005, 05:03 PM

We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you... the CIA.

pmiles

April 4th, 2005, 05:27 PM

MAX, Maya, Lightwave, PowerAnimator, XSI, Wavefront, yadda yadda yadda... they're all 3D packages and the tides shift as frequently as the sun changes position in the sky.

Victor Navone did Alien Song on Animation Master... a $99 app at the time... he now works at Pixar. Brian Taylor has been working on Rust Boy for a number of years... he uses Infini-D. Two solid examples of excellent work done on apps that cost less than $200. It's not what you use but how you use it. Trust me, crap can be produced on a $5000 app just as easily as a $200 one... the difference between the different apps has more to do with the individual behind it than the programming of the app itself.

Neither of these two individuals are lacking in a strong traditional art background... and their work shows it. Anyone can teach a monkey to use software... just look at all the 3D forums... many of the art you are seeing is being done at home without any instruction at all... and some of it is pretty damn good. Remember that... like all mediums, practice practice practice... you're competing with people who have used Maya since the day they were born... you're getting a 1 year crash course on the basics. And I do mean the b-a-s-i-c-s.

All schools have their share of horror stories... Full Sail has quite a reputation as well...

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-4904.html

Saga

April 5th, 2005, 09:07 PM

I came THIS close to applying to the Toronto Institute of Art, but someone from this site warned me about these institutes. Even the name 'institute' sounds suspicious; as if someone down the line told them they couldn't call themselves a college or university since they are, as mentioned before, only in it for the money. I have now applied to a local college (Nova Scotia College of Art and Design) which does ask for a portfolio. Its not specific to the gaming industry (of which I want to get into) but this site can help me with my fantasy stuff when I manage to post it.

BlackGuy

April 12th, 2005, 07:34 PM

I went to the art institute of washington the other day for a tour, and they told me that they are accredited. So yeah, apparently not all of them aren't.

pmiles

April 12th, 2005, 08:23 PM

Accreditation is a sticky term... it's something that is bestowed upon an institution of higher learning if they meet certain criteria as established by an accrediting board. This accreditation is always under review and each institution must reapply for accreditation every couple of years.

Accreditation doesn't really mean all that much to either you or I because it is a set of guidelines the school must meet in order to maintain accreditation. From a school's perspective, accreditation means money because Federal Aid is not available to non-accredited institutions... imagine the enrollment drop if people couldn't take out school loans to pay for school?

All schools are accredited in some form or another but merely being accredited doesn't mean that the credits/degree that you earn will transfer to another similarly accredited institution... especially those schools in the private sector (as in not state universities or community colleges).

Thistle

April 18th, 2005, 12:45 AM

And admittedly, they do not require a portfolio. But many high school students who intend to go into art do not have a portfolio. Like you said, A high school student isn't supposed to be a serious artist. I looked at the percentages of the graduates who get good jobs in the field, and it is amazingly high, but it doesnt tell you what exactly the job is (sneaky).

Anyway, the application process is free, and I took a tour of the place, and although the guy who I talked to sounded like a car salesman, it looked fairly good. I do, however, intend to do a lot of research on independent websites, and intend to ask other colleges if the credits are transferrable.

The school is accredited by the same people who credit the pasco-hernando community college, so that sounds legit.

pmiles

April 18th, 2005, 12:31 PM

In order for credits to be accepted by another institution, they must meet certain guidelines, typically:

The course level must be equivalent or higher than the course you are trying to get credit for. A 100 level course will not be considered equal to a 200 level course. No course under the 100 level will transfer and some 100 level courses are also non-transferable by definition.

The content of the course must be equivalent to the content being taught in the course your are trying to get credit for. For example, school A teaches College Math (which they define as business mathematics), school B also teaches College Math (but they define it as pre-calculus to calculus). The two courses may have the same college level and course name, but the content being taught is entirely different. This is not to say that your courses must be a dead match to another college, it just means that some classes won't directly cross over, they may end up fulfilling other course requirements or be carried as electives.

Then there's the whole quarter based system and semester based system... some schools require a minumum number of contact hours to be equivalent credit-wise for a course. AI schools tend to be on the quarter system, but what most people don't know is that the classes meet only once a week, so all your contact hours are aquired in just one sitting as opposed to 2 or 3 times per week. Spreading out the content over several classes reinforces the material being taught so that the student has time to absorb it. When material is taught all in one sitting and your next class isn't for another 7 days, much information can be lost in the meantime.

Consider this, you go to a community college and aren't sure what you want to do but you do know that you want to transfer to a university afterwards. The courses you take at the community college are designed to prepare you for a variety of disciplines, thus the level of education in said courses are often above par to those taught at places like AI or other specialty schools. Why? You could plan on being an english major, thus your english classes are designed to prepare you for that. At a specialty school, they know your interest is in art only, thus you don't have to be a rocket scientist, you just have to be able to not fall off the turnip truck. I can say this with all honesty, GE type classes taught at the AIs are geared towards artists, not college students. The level of work required is well below that of a typical college teaching the same course and that is why credits often do not transfer from these schools.

Again, if transfering to another school is your intention, you should seek out the school you wish to transfer to and find out what courses they will take from the school you plan on attending. Take only those classes so that you don't end up retaking courses again later. If you don't know if you will plan on transfering later, assume that your classes won't transfer, then if some do, it's all gravy from there.

CaptainInsano

April 19th, 2005, 09:58 PM

I attended the Art Institute of Seattle.

I was a sucker, what a waste of money.

EVERYONE I know who got jobs in the video game industry DROPPED out of the art institute. They already had the talent to get a job, in the first place.

What a waste of money.

pmiles

April 19th, 2005, 10:54 PM

Sadly, there is more truth to that than most people will ever know.

Everyone wants to be an animator, very few will be. It's just the nature of the beast. Just because you are able to break into the biz, doesn't mean that you will be able to stay in it. Plenty of people have lost their jobs over the years because they couldn't keep up with the technology or the market couldn't handle the influx of businesses devoted to the same technology.

Just because schools are popping up hourly offering degrees in a niche field doesn't mean that there will be jobs for those who attend said schools. If you added up the total number of animators graduating each year and divide it by the number of total jobs available, you will find that the number of students outnumber the jobs nearly 100 to 1. Factor in that everyone wants to work at the same places and you will see what kinds of odds you are up against.

Snookums

April 20th, 2005, 05:47 AM

well shit. i've been accepted to the art institute of LA, santa monica. after hearing all this, i'm not sure it's the best idea to go there. i'm looking at the art center website now, and it seems like a lot of fun. the courses all sound interesting. i really hope it's not too late to apply. my portfolio isn't very strong because i've only started seriously finishing pieces this year (senior).

pmiles

April 20th, 2005, 12:01 PM

Snookums, your success or failure depends upon you and you alone, not the school that you attend. Basically what ParkerD was saying was that those with talent already, didn't need a degree to get to where they are now... a very true statement because you DON'T need a degree to get into these fields... you just need talent.

Waste of money? School is only a waste of money if you gain nothing from the experience of being there. If all you do is what is asked of you or what is expected of you, you are merely passing your time away in school. Be realistic in your goals... if you are going to a gaming school, don't expect to land yourself a job in films... it would be extremely rare for that to happen because the curriculum in a game school is not geared towards film. Next look at the places you'd like to work and those that you are willing to work at... what do they do and what kind of software do they use? Some places are so pigeon holed into one direction that anything outside of that direction is immediately rejected. If they are into Spongebob Squarepants and you're into Anime, don't expect them to see past the Anime and look at your talent... it rarely happens. If they do Squarepants, they want to see Squarepants, plain and simple. And yes, software does play a role... they don't have the time to train you in their software (film houses are an exception), so if you aren't Da Bomb at whatever software they are using you aren't likely to land a job there.

If you want to be a 2D animator, realize that there is little market for such skills today. Disney was the last major studio to close it's doors, most of the other studios saw the writing on the wall long before and shut down their 2D operations much earlier. 3D is a niche market just like 2D was... it's too early to tell if it will survive as long as 2D did. Unlike 2D which was always based on one's artistic abilities above all else, 3D is a mixture of technology and art, thus there are times when the technology is in the drivers seat more than the art is. You will have to be up on all the changes happening in your field both technically and artistically... that's more than what the 2D animator needed to juggle when their field was in it's hay day.

CaptainInsano

April 20th, 2005, 09:39 PM

Here's a better idea than going to the Art Institute

Instead of blowing wads of cash (1,000/class @ AI), use 2 grand to buy the best computer available. Get a pirated version of Photoshop, 3DS Max, and Maya, or if you want, purchase them. It's actually *cheaper* to purchase these than pay the tuition for AIS.

If you go to AIS, you'll pay 40,000 dollars to get the AA. You'll only have access to the animation labs when they're open (they close at 11pm), which means that's you're only window of oppurtunity. You'll get lousy instructors who couldn't care less about improving your skill, and in the end you'll have to buy a computer anyway! And you STILL won't have a job!

Plus, you're not allowed to render animation overnight. Know why that sucks? Because animation could take days, maybe a WHOLE WEEK, to render. Where can you render your animation at if not at the Art Institute? You'll HAVE to buy a computer and get copies of Maya, Max, and PS anyway! and the Art Instiutute dosen't provide you with any of these.

However! I did meet the best friends I"ve ever had from the Art Institute. I did get that much out of it. We ALL ended up dropping out. Most of them got jobs right away because they had the TALENT IN THE FIRST PLACE. But despite meeting my friends at AI, I don't need to pay money to AI to hang out with my friends.

CaptainInsano

April 20th, 2005, 09:42 PM

Holy shiat Snookums, I just realized that you and I are in the same exact position. I'm from Hawaii too, and decided to go to the Art Institute.

If I were you, if you're going to spend 40K to go to an art school, go to a GOOD ONE! Check out CalArts instead.

Myself, I'm moving to Santa Monica next month and I'm looking into CalArts and the Los Angeles School of Figurative Art to brush up on my life drawing and painting skills.

IronMonkey

April 21st, 2005, 04:57 PM

I graduated (CA degree) Dec. 01 and I still haven't found a gig. I'm working though, same place I was working at when I went to the school.

The Career Services really don't do anything but send you emails about jobs in New Zealand when you live in Texas.

I have given up hope with the gaming industry because it's not stable to me. I have turn my attention towards Broadcast Graphics. If I had knew what I know now, I would chose a different field or something.

Oh yeah! That tution is high!!!!! I learned a lot though.

Pe@ce

silky10

April 26th, 2005, 03:45 PM

yeah, it was kind of a waste. even though I worked on some cool projects ranging from post work on some televsion shows, a music video, live concert visuals, and some broadacast promos out here in LA. I never really saw a good demo reel until I went to a user group meeting and the speaker was a guy from the efx house called the Orphanage. they had their reel and it had some stuff they created for hellboy and the day after tomorrow using after effects, maya, and 3D max a few weeks before the day after tomorrow came out. after that I saw how actual industry artists were using after effects for features. the shit I learned while in the industry is something that they never explained how to do in colorado. don't get me wrong, the after effects class I had was very basic, not until you work with it a production setting to see what thay bad boy can do. I feel that shit I learned in colorado was worthless and that the education I got there was a complete waste of time.

NoSeRider

April 26th, 2005, 06:18 PM

You're paying the same amount of money....I think going to CalArts would be better.

It's a big ass school too.

Plus, if you can't draw you don't get accepted. Which makes me feel there's justice in the world.

pmiles

April 27th, 2005, 08:43 PM

LOL... boy are you in for a rude awakening... justice... LOL.

Lyliani

May 9th, 2005, 09:32 AM

i'm currently attending the Art Institute Online. I agree that most of it is self taught, because the facilitators don't do shit except grade you on your "participation". I do feel that i've improved a lot, but not as much as i hoped to.

Regarding them being acreditted, I read that they are in the process of gaining a full accredidation by 2006, making the transfer of credits in and out of school a little easier on the students. I didn't have any trouble transferring all of my general course credits from music school.

I feel that it's really what you make of it. AIO is convenient for me, saves me money from commutes, and lets me keep my job, so i think its an okay trade off. I graduate spring of next year with an AA, after 1 1/2 years. Not bad, IMHO.

caligula

May 15th, 2005, 03:49 AM

im currently at the art institute of seattle.. so far the program isn't that bad, i want to go to CA, but we will see if i can even afford living down there :(

Beelow

June 11th, 2005, 09:52 PM

I feel that, it does not matter what school an individual goes to get a degree let alone not go to school at all, it's is all on you as an individual. I go to the Art Institute of Las Vegas and am building contacts, thats the way I look at it. Of course, it is not the best of schools, but I do get feedback from some of the teachers there that do care. You have to find them. I am also a caricature artist on the Strip in Las Vegas and my manager explains it to me like this, YOU GOT TO LEARN HOW TO MARKET YOURSELF. My friend tells me, ITS ALL ABOUT NETWORKING GAINING CONTACTS. It does not matter what college you go to you do the training yourself, the teachers don't train you. They only show you how to do things, it is all about the artist. Lets just put it this way, you don't put in the time you do not learn. In my opinion it is a waste of money if you do go to college when you can just order the stuff and do the reading and learn how to do it. I would agree that the Art Institute does bring in different levels of artists, but at the here in Las Vegas, one of my teachers, Kevin Anderson is starting to crack down on incoming students and they are asking for portfolios now. Its funny, almost because he rejects a lot of them if they are not at least mediocore, because he hates fighting students that do not want to learn life drawing. But, me myself I made it my mission to get myself on top of my game and get hired, AILv did not train me it opened my eyes to what level I am at in my Artwork. Hopefully this helps clear up some things and this helps students that want to get into this industry. And yes, this school is accredited and you get a degree.

jmedran

June 28th, 2005, 01:51 AM

I go to Ai in Seattle. It's true that the job that you get is really dependent on what you do outside of school and the skill that you have. If only I had realized that before I wouldn't have wasted so much money here. I don't feel that I learned anything at the art institute that I couldn't have learned at community college. In fact I could have learned more at cc. The math class I took here was a joke.

Every quarter this school turns out students whose portfolios are absolute crap. It's obvious that a degree from these schools mean nothing at all.

pmiles

June 28th, 2005, 11:16 AM

I agree that *most* of the portfolios that are turned out of AIS are "crap" as you say. Part of the problem is the fact that most of the students are ill-prepared for the real world upon graduation. This mostly has to do with the compressed program. By the time you get to the classes that are devoted to your portfolio preparation, you are in your final quarter or two of instruction. For those who have been actively working on stuff outside of class all along, this is fine, but for those who have merely been following the curriculum rote are in for a big surprise.

People are under the misconception that this degree means anything to anyone. It doesn't. There is a school on every street corner offering to teach you this stuff. A virtual old growth forest has been dedicated to books promising to teach you the secrets from the ones in the know. DVDs and VHS tapes as high as the empire state building are also out there, all promising you the same thing... to teach you the tricks of the trade. None of them, none of them, will turn a frog into a prince, no matter how much you kiss it, and they all know it.

Think about it... really think about it... if you add up every person out there, around the world who is actively pursuing a career in 3D, you will discover that only 1/10th of them will ever find work merely because there are far more people desiring to be in the business than there are jobs. Also factor in the fact that the industry has streamlined itself immensely since the 90s and you are talking even seasoned professionals finding it difficult to remain gainfully employed year in and year out.

Hopefully this is a rude awakening to some... it is a dog eat dog business and only the best will survive, assuming they ever get their chance in the first place. The worst thing that you can do is assume you are good at what you do based on those around you. They are not your competition, it's the ones who you don't have a visual of their work that are. Always assume there is some kick-ass artist out there 10 times better than you... because there really is.

caligula

June 28th, 2005, 12:16 PM

absolutly agree.
school is what you put into it. Alot of the people at AIS have no drive, or think that a degree will open a door at a company.
i haven't gotten the chance to check portfolios yet, be i always here the same thing.. " theres a couple really good ones the rest sucked"

pmiles

June 28th, 2005, 03:02 PM

Caligula -

You should try to go to portfolio review if at all possible. Granted what you will see is often not the best work in the world, but then there is always something there to see, you just have to look for it... it can be a challenge to find it. I find the work done on in the web to be more interesting to me... it lacks the cookie cutter feel that AIS so sternly forces the students to abide by. If I were a recuiter, I'd say, no logos on anything, no figure drawings unless specifically asked for, no flatwork of any kind... if it ain't moving in the round, it doesn't go on the reel, period. And EVERYONE should have a minimum of 1 minute of 3D animation on their reel, preferably character animation involving lip sync audio. You go to an animation school to do animation, not portraits.

Blahm

June 30th, 2005, 03:12 AM

i attended the art insitute of las vegas for about 3 weeks. All i can say is that place is NOT worth the money that they charge. And like a previous poster said, its a depoma factory or sweat shop, or you get the idea. You can get a better art education from a state university or community college. In fact if you talked to people that teach at a AI most of them teach at the community colleges ass well. Dont wast your money. The place is nothing short of a scam.

wazabi

July 1st, 2005, 04:53 AM

LOL- pmiles is a funny fella...I dont know where he's getting all his information.
It is true that your portfolio speaks for itself and you can teach yourself how to draw or how to use a program. but only if you have the decipline and self control to actually do it.
I see that an education in a good school is actually worth your money and time.

AND it does matter what school you graduated to some extent because art directors are likely to hire artists who they know (friends) or recommendations from their friends. A lot of the times this friends are your old buddies from art school. 80% of my buddies from school are in the field (ILM, Dreamworks, Sony, etc.) and who do we recommend when there's an open spot? friends from school.

I have seen couple of ppl from AI in the industry but most of them were PA

oh yeah Art Center would be ACCD not ACC

pmiles

July 1st, 2005, 11:27 AM

Yes and 80% of your buddies don't constitute around 10,000 people now does it? Small number when compared to the big number of students around the world sitting in classes studying to be animators at this very minute.

Every employer is likely to hire from the same pool that their stars come from. Their employees can vouch for the program and the students. That's true in every business. However, merely having a sheepskin with the name Academy of Arts on it doesn't guarantee you a job. Just as many failures graduate as success stories. Every school has their stars and their wanna-bes. This is not to say a wanna-be can't make it. Anything can happen, it's all a matter of what kind of sacrifices you are willing to take.

To give you an idea just what roads some of the people in the business have taken, one person I know studied engineering then went on to work for Digital Domain... went to a state college. Two people studied architecture, one went on to work at Weta Digital and the other now works at Sony Imageworks... again, both went to a state college. Another friend studied Psychology and now works at Rhythum and Hues (state college). For them, contacts were their key, however, not having a background in art didn't affect their success in any way. None of them went to school to learn this stuff, all of them learned it on their own.

My point is, it is not where you go to school that matters, it's what you do when you get there and what you do after you leave that matters. Some people have a real knack for this stuff... they will shine no matter where they go to school. Just because Cameron Miyaski went to the Art Center doesn't mean the Art Center turned him into an animator... he had a natural talent for it... the school was just an opportunity for him to practice and hone his skills. He could have just as easily gone to one of the AI schools and still come away with the same talent. If everyone can be taught to draw, then why aren't their more artists out there? Or for that matter, doctors? Not everyone can be what they want to be, but that doesn't mean they have to stop trying.

Mirana

July 1st, 2005, 11:58 AM

Getting back to the "we'll get you an intership/job" promise.

That's bullshit. Every school spouts that BS and gives you percentages. They just don't tell you WHERE the students were placed. Internships are as tough to get as jobs and you're going to have to find them yourself. At the very least, you're going to be the one that needs to go to their Career Services and hunt through the list. Hell, try hitting your professors up for jobs...if it's a good school, your profs are still in their fields and can watch out for you.

Other highlights...

All private art schools are for-profit. That's why they cost so damn much. There's going to be crappy artists at every one (for freshman or sophmore yr until they drop) because mom 'n' dad had enough money to get them in.

Not having a portfolio because you are in, or just out of, high school is NO excuse. If you want to be an artist, you had better be able to show it. It's like any other job, you don't just roll out of bed one morning and decide being a Surgeon is the thing for you if you've never dissected anything before. If you don't have a portfolio, you better put your butt in a community college for a couple years (Even if you do, it's a smart move to save money).

pmiles

July 1st, 2005, 03:37 PM

Well we sure brought this old thread back to life... LOL.

Get your "I love AI" t-shirts here... or just go to Siggraph... they'll be handing them out there.

AnimationMentor.com is looking better every day... question is, can they survive the influx of students without losing all their mentors along the way?

Caexar

July 1st, 2005, 04:08 PM

I went for Industrial Design Technologies at Art Institute of Pittsburgh and saw a lot of crappy artwork get passed just because it was finished. I'm not saying this happened in every field but it did happen. I know it happened because I've turned in less than impressive pieces and got passed. On the other hand, I've heard from many outside sources that going to the AI would look good to other artists, not because of clout but because graduates have invaded every field and therefore look for other graduates. I really don't know many people working in their fields of study though.

wazabi

July 2nd, 2005, 03:30 AM

pmiles are you a school counselor or something because your posts are all concentrated in the Art School & Education thread.
I just hope you are giving advices from your own experience to all this ppl...not just some bs you heard from someone from somewhere.

It is true that there are some ppl who never went to art school but those ppl are rare and not everyone has the decipline to do it themselves.

pmiles

July 3rd, 2005, 05:26 PM

LOL...nope I'm not a counselor... I just sound like one because I'm older than dirt.

I've already been to college longer than most of you people have been alive, so no, my comments aren't BS nor have they been derived from somewhere else. I've been doing 3D work since 1990... started out on SGIs on a little app called TAV. You probably never heard of it, but that same company eventually developed Maya.

My comment wasn't to suggest that one skip art school... on the contrary, it was to point out that one can get into this business without having attended an art school at all. If you speak Maya like a second language, you will find a home in 3D. Just because you can draw, doesn't mean you can animate, or model, or light, or a whole host of other skills that the 3D world requires. 3D is just as much a technical field as it is an artistic one. As for not being self-disciplined to learn this stuff on your own, well all learning is a self-discipline. It's all you baby. No one can make you work at it.

Everyone in this forum is chasing after that ideal school... that holy grail so to speak. It's like the comments about which software is better. There is no right or wrong answer. You will discover that your success or failure resides solely within you, doesn't matter if you have 12 Cameron Miyaski's sitting next to you or not, it's up to you to make something happen, you and you alone. That's why no one should go to school X or Y merely because of some rep or because a lot of talent comes out of there. The question you have to answer is, do you have the talent and desire to make something happen even if all odds are against you. Are you up to the task of trying to out-do the people you admire as opposed to merely emmulating them? It's not about becoming a clone of Brad Bird, it's about creating a new Brad Bird... the next guy on the horizon that no one has ever heard about. That's the kind of determination that makes things happen, not the school you went to or what software you use.

Kunzer

July 3rd, 2005, 08:00 PM

for example, philly is considered an accredited school. one way to tell is the restrictions the school might have: attendance, crap like that. if they dont keep you in the seats for a certain amount of time, they recieve no assistance from the government.

im currently enrolled in the philly school, though i do think 1000 a class is rediculous, and 11 weeks isnt really a long enough time for me to get everything i need to know out of the class, i do feel like im learning what i want to learn, and that they off a lot (technology wise) to suit my needs.

i do agree with what other people have said here though, learn more on your own. just use the schools equipment to pack your portfolio full of great things, and try to get related jobs before you graduate. ive been using my free time doing freelance work for other students in the school and its helped a lot.

really, its not the school that will get you to your goal. the education is just a stepping. if your good and you learned a lot about your field, people will hire you, otherwise they wont. ive seen some great artists pass through the hall at AI, ive also seen some piss poor ones.

I also wanted to let you guys know that most of the people at AI are there for graphic design, or animation, and when you are considering a job (and this is going to sound like an ass thing to say), consider the amount of competition your going to have, because all your friends at school are also fighting for your dream job.

capt underoo

July 8th, 2005, 10:32 PM

I am currently going to the Art Institute of Phoenix, and it is about the same as all the other ones, at least from what I've read in this thread. Basically, it breaks down like this, every job/business and every school that you've heard of or have not heard of is going to have crap that you don't like. None of these places are going to prepare you completely for whatever job you are looking for. These places are elementary schools for whatever degree you are working for. If you want more than just basics, you have to figure them out for yourself. Being a part of sites like this and others will give you some of the info you need. If you really want to succeed in the game industry or any of the others, you take what the schools give you and you expand upon it. No one is going to be able to teach you better than your self. So take it upon yourself to learn on your own.

SexualSideFX

July 9th, 2005, 12:58 AM

Clearly what you learn is all up to you no matter what school you go to. The question is, is the Art Institute going to give you more than what you could have gotten at any other college for a quarter of the price? Since it's all up to you, why don't you just save yourself the cash and spend it on gnomon dvds? Myself, I am quite unimpressed by what the Art Institute offers.

pmiles

July 9th, 2005, 11:41 AM

The truth is, there are two ways of learning, one is by repetition, and the other is by figuring it out on your own. Repetition is a tried and true method of teaching, it's how we all learned our ABCs, how to write, and read. We also figured out how to walk and talk all on our own as little children.

There is no shortcut to learning... it has been proven time and time again. Just because "we" are looking for shortcuts, doesn't mean that the shortcuts will work. What is not working for people is the fact that they get about 11 weeks of supposedly intense training in a subject then move on to an entirely different subject for the next 11 weeks. You haven't repeated anything and in some cases, you haven't even figured out anything on your own because you were following a tutorial or getting the assistance of the instructor or your friends. Technically speaking, you have 1 class on any one subject per week for maybe 3 hours (few actually use the full 4 hours if you count all the breaks). If you don't sit your butt down immediately after class and practice everything that you just learned in class for around 12 hours more, the information is basically short term, meaning you will forget how to do it in short turn.

The same is true for Gnomon DVDs, books, you name it. Unless you are committed to trying new things, jumping ahead of the curriculum, and practicing what you have learned, you will have learned nothing. If you can't remember how to do something that you did on day one of class from last quarter at the beginning of the next quarter, you have failed to learn the material. The whole point of school is to learn, not to just merely get a piece for your portfolio... remember, they expect you to be able to replicate what you have in your portfolio as if it were rote... if you can't remember how you did it or it was just a happy accident, you are going to find yourself in a lot of trouble out in the work world. A portfolio is a visual example of what you know, not what you have done. A lot of importance is placed on the portfolio because it is your resume... however, if you cannot replicate something that you have put into your portfolio, you are basically lying to your potential employer.

The people who succeed at this stuff are the ones who are always doing it. They spend every moment trying to learn new things from wherever they can and they practice what they have learned. What makes a school environment better than self-study is that you get to see what others are doing and watch how they approach things. You get feedback and they get feedback. You also gain contacts for the future. And yes, in some limited respects, the school forces you to participate in your learning. What you don't ever want to find yourself doing in school is just showing up to class, doing the assignment, then leaving. That is a complete waste of time, and certainly not worth $1100. Unfortunately, a lot of people do that.

Kunzer

July 9th, 2005, 04:12 PM

agreed.

rmichels

July 26th, 2005, 10:52 AM

Kunzer

Did you consider any other schools? My daughter is interested in studying Photography. Many colleges have photography as part of a fine arts degree. This means classes in drawing, art, etc which my daughter is not interested in pursuing.

We have looked at Antonelli (outside of Philly), Drexel, and are heading to the Art Institute in Pittsburgh this weekend. Antonelli only offers a 2 year program, Drexel was wayyyy too expensive (thought they have a really nice facility), double that of the art institute. My wife would like our daughter to stay within the area (like 5-6 hours drive tops from York, PA)

thanks

aliengmr

August 6th, 2005, 04:09 PM