is it just me or.......

[thebluepuppy]

is anyone else sick of seeing the same boring ass digital paintings. it just makes me sick to see people tryign to learn to paint not in traditional meduims but in photoshop an painter and when they learn they just paint cyborg (add noun here) with large knockers and lasers. im not saying that thats all the talent they have im just saying why are people so biased towards something that is called "digital painting", but in reality it just is manipulation of pixels. it just seems to me that digital paintings are so sterile and MOST, not all, have no life to them. in most illustration and art related magazines they really dont show digital paintings, only mixed media and oils and traditional work. i figured this is the only area where i could post without being torn two new ones(just one). im sure ill get some negative feedback. i would love to hear from the community on this and how people moving away from traditional painting is going to affect art in years to come. remember this isnt personal so pleasee dont make it. :yayca:

[jetpack42]

aren't you the guy who posted the digital painting tutorial?

[thebluepuppy]

lol...busted >:D . let me explain.the further i tried to move away from traditional the closer i got to it. im not saying im putting the wacom down forever, but i am saying that its going away for a little while. i think traditional media helps bring the artist closer to not only his style but his paintings/drawings. ive been working in watercolor for several months now seroiiusly and i made more headway then i was digitally painting for like a year. it also brought me a lot closer to my inner artist. take that how you will, but if i had to make the decision, destroy all paint or all copys of ps, painter,etc, i think it wouldnt be a hard decision.

[Profil]

some guys maybe cant afford all the traditional. Digital is also more comfortable and you dont have to set it up every time etc.

[Telekon]

Digital mediums are just another tool. I don't think they're trying to replace traditional mediums anymore than watercolors are trying to replace oil paintings. They can co-exist and enhance each other. If you feel that digital paintings are cold and lacking depth, it's only because that is what you're choosing to see. Keep in mind this is a "Conceptual" art forum, and most concept art seems sci-fi based. Look for aspects you're wanting to see and then you'll find yourself attracting more of that. You get whatever you focus upon.... :confident

[Cocofuppa]

Actually, in terms of illustration, there is LOADS of digital stuff around atm, because most digital illustrations are very clean, especially the vector shite than anyone can do, very cheap to produce, quicker to paint, less risky, and cost much less! But I totally know what u mean though, because recently Ive been going back to acrylic painting a lot, and mixing loads of different mediums together to discover new methods. I dunno what it is, but I just cant mix paint digitally somehow, it just doesnt feel right on the computer in a wierd kinda way. But anyway, yeh traditional mediums makes me feel more in-tune as an artist whereas digital stuff just makes good business sense to make money.

Peace

[thebluepuppy]

maybe im just paranoid but it just seems commercial art is engulfing fine art. it just seems that everyone is worried about making that fast buck(not aimed at you cocofuppa). it just is sad that you have all these youngsters with great potential that arent realizing it because they are stuck in "i want to be sparth and paint in painter". i dont know sparth personnally but i know he painted traditionally just from reading his stuff he posts. My interpratation is that these "profeesionals" create these digital images that resemble TRADITIONAL. Its faster but the reason from what i take it their liked so much like mr foster also is that there style is "painterly". in my opinion is it possible to create a "digital painting" that resembles an oil, umm yes and no. yes but it will look poor and ametuer. my opinion. oh yeah coccofuppa about the color thing thats one thing that bothers me also. it sounds stupid but ps gives you TOO MANY OPTIONS. you can change your "digital paint" from 60 opacity to 61. also their is no color mixing so it makes you dependant. it just makes the whole process so "industrial". it takes the fun out of the art. there is no room for happy accidents and if you dont like your happy accident you can take it out. crtl+z will be the downfall of art as well as being the best thing that ever happened to commercial art. just as industrialzation destroyed the american community it also built us as a superpower. now its bringing us down, when the same capalitist greed built us up its tearing the country apart. well i officially went off topic. :dad: .

[thebluepuppy]

i hope to show you all my watercolors soon. :^^:

[Antne]

Don't take this personally but I think this is an easy cop out to people who don't want to learn a new and powerful medium. People used to say airbrush was cheating and lifeless because it was too easy a way to create fades and you don't physically touch the canvas. When acrylics were invented Oil painters got in a tizzy. When it became possible to buy premade tubes of color artists got upset because it actually became less work for students and for years continued to teach them what berries to pick to create what color paint. I couldn't afford to experiment with hundreds of dollars worth of various mediums in an attempt to discover what worked for me and what didn't. It wasn't until I got a computer (and a cracked version of photoshop) to experiment and play with that I fell in love with painting. I went to the Joe Kubert School and all anyone wanted to draw was superheroes and science fiction, myself included, with barely a computer in sight so one can't blame a medium for subject matter. That's like blaming Toyota for Nascar.

The first time I put pencil to paper I was married to art. The first time I put Wacom pen to Wacom tablet I renewed my vows.

Antne

[Thestral]

I'm new to these forums but I do want to express my 100% agreement with thebluepuppy. I've used traditional media for many years and really just started to transfer my skills to digital, mainly because it seems clients are beginning to prefer concept work submitted in that form. As far as personal artworks though, I still like to paint with traditional oils. I'm pretty much old school when it comes to my oil painting as well. I still stretch my own linen canvas, size it with rabbit skin glue, prime it with lead white and boil my own medium along with mixing powered pigments and finishing with Venice Turpentine for glazing and final varnishing. A lot can be said for the techniques of the old masters and the optical properties of oils. Digital work however is easier to ship.

The majority of artwork on this site seems to be geared toward the gaming industry or the type of product created by ILM. Apart from this site, I've seen a lot of outstanding conceptual digital art that had nothing to do with sci-fi that was created for major motion pictures and theme park attractions. I may be in the minority here as well, but two things stuck in my mind during my years of training. A) One of my art professors, back in 1995 told my class quote, "Stay away from doing spaceships, He-men, and half naked broads. The industry is already loaded with people who can effectively do those and a whole lot more that wish they could. Find your own unique subject base and style" and B) "The best and most effective matt paintings in films are the ones that you don't even notice aren't real". These two quotes have had an impact on my work and, although I have a great appreciation for others work such as Feng and Franzetta, I personally have no desire to emulate them. It may be the popular thing to do, and I could probably make lots more money if I did, but it’s just not me.

Oh, and thebluepuppy, your statement regarding capalitist greed in this country is spot on as well. We've been talking about that around here a lot lately.

[thebluepuppy]

antne- maybe i am overexageriting but im just sharing my expierences with digital. I even agree that digital painting is very much so needed, but when you have a community that doesnt learn the brush before the wacom it hurts them, in my opinion, because there not learning color mixing and understanding what real world paint colors look like. what really upset me was when someone told me that they only paint digitally because traditional is to slow. its sad because it seems that the fine artist is almost extint.

Thestral- thats incredible how dedicated to your processes(puppy pats you on the back and shakes your hand). yeah it just seems that the whole world is headed towards armegeddon or global war. its sad how people cant get along anymore. also the fact that they let bush get away with bloody everything. im going to get a bumber sticker " NO WMD, NO PROBLEM :rendered: "

thanks to everyone who responded and ill still be cjecking this thread if more want to give their opinions!

[Daunting]

it just seems to me that digital paintings are so sterile and MOST, not all, have no life to them.

That's the exact same thing in any medium. Good artwork compared to bad artwork in any medium outnumbers it mostlikely to 99 to less than a percent probably. But I do have to sympathise with you though. A lot of youngsters (Me kind of) Think that digital artwork will just make our work great. Obviously that's not true which I have seen from dipping my hand in very few digital works. Right when I realised that I sucked with color theory and just plain sucked at painting I went straight and started painting in my art class. And Just from painting a few times it has already helped me out a bunch.

Paintig traditionally really does help you out in digital painting. I doubt it's a must though, unless you're one of those unique exceptions a person is mostlikely not going to be all too great in digital painting without being half way good at traditional painting. But give the kids a break they're just starting out.

I garrentee you the old artists that were half way good back in the day criticised kids for only using some form of media over the other, saying it's too childish or easy to get through. It's just another tool.


Oh ya and personally, I love the feel of oils on a canvas... Just plain sexy.

[pvpham]

Does it really matter? I agreed with Telekon. Its not the medium, its with you can do with it. Maybe your issue isn't with digital painting but with concepts. Either way I think there is more than enough room for both mediums.

Phillip

[Cocofuppa]

Fucking spot on puppy, the whole colour mixing in PS is just wierd imo, its no true reflection of real life at all, even painter is a bit shit tbh. I mean in real life all I do is add a bit of water here n there, a bit of white perhaps or whatever and thats IT, PIECE OF CAKE! Also its VERY rare to get happy accidents digitally imo, which is why i tend to mix n match custom brushes all the time in the hope of creating something a bit different. But anyway, yeh digital art is too pixel perfect lol, ctrl-z, the zoom tool and the history pallette is such a fucking perfectionists safety net its bloody unbelievable!

Peace

[thebluepuppy]

cocofuppa- yeah i totally agree. ps and painter are to perfectionist driven. its crazy how impossible it is to get "happy accidents", like in ps or painter.

pvpham- its not that im saying that i dont like digital painting but when people put down the brush to save a little time, i think that could be hurtful to them. i think that when people close their minds to only producing sci -fi images that can be hurtful. im just saying that i think it would help if people expiremented with concepts and mediums a little more. i think they would find that they would grow more as artists.

daunting- thats awesome that you took the time to go and paint traditionally. a lot of people dont do that when they go digi. your not going to be disapointted with your skills when you master both. oils are sexy.. :bashful:

[scarletnocturne]

this is the conclusion i have come to about photoshop and digital media.

I would not do an entire work digitally unless i had to. The reason being it lacks the human touch. The wacom tablets are still unable to capture the most senestive marks. Its because this medium lacks the human touch (in other words, we are deaing with programs which someone else created) essentially the only difference between most work done in digital media comes from the subject matter and not how the medium is used; since, unless you write the software, you can only manipulate it to whatever the program says you can.

not to say that it produces no good work. There has been great work produced with it, but i have found that what i would consider great work that has come from digital media, was first began as a painting and then scanned to tweek and touch up in photoshop or painter and so on.

i wouldnt say its cheaper to use digital media, i'd say its the same. I can put out 300 dollars for decent brushes some canvases and decent oils. As a student i get discounts on the adobe software, but getting everything else with it, like a decent laptop and a nice printer...the printer alone costs more than everything you need to oil paint.

[thebluepuppy]

oh so true my friend. couldnt have said it better myself. /m\ .sorry i just abused an emicon.

[Antne]

scarletnocturne-
I understand What your saying about the human touch but to say it is not our work because we didn't write the program is lke saying all oil painters work looks the same because they didn't mix their own oils. The thing about painting in photshop and using to many of the options can be true. I try to limit the options I use. I even try not to use more than one layer that way the happy accidents can happen and I am forced to work with my mistakes. This something I think alot of artists forget when they draw. Your personality should come through in your work. That includes the mistakes and imperfections.

I heard a quote from Frazetta that I'll paraphrase 'cuz I don't recall it exactly but he said something When refering to his stroke and how he had to relearn how to paint with his left hand. He said he paints with his heart not his hand so he may may have to relearn how to translate what his heart wants to say with his left hand but it does change what he does. Don't hate the medium because you think it makes you lazy. Blame yourself for letting it make you lazy.

[Prehistoric]

The first time I put pencil to paper I was married to art. The first time I put Wacom pen to Wacom tablet I renewed my vows.Antne

wonderfully stated, my man.

i couldn't agree more.

[thebluepuppy]

i think what scarlet nocturne is trying to say that you cant really "feel" your work. you cant take a wet paint covered bristley brush and thrash it across a deep textured paper and watch the colors bleed and meld together in front of your eyes. look down at your paint encrusted wood stick with animal hairs on it realize you just made a "happy accident" all over your paper. :bashful: . also i feel as though i have more control when im working on something in the real world versus a wacom because the wacom is like a pen point being glided across a slick surface and when it appears on your screen you can only manipulate through keys and the wacom. no real world interaction just electronic. but like i said i think its very needed just because of the demand for fast work, but it shouldnt replace traditional during the foundational years of painting.

[scarletnocturne]

scarletnocturne-
I understand What your saying about the human touch but to say it is not our work because we didn't write the program is lke saying all oil painters work looks the same because they didn't mix their own oils. The thing about painting in photshop and using to many of the options can be true. I try to limit the options I use. I even try not to use more than one layer that way the happy accidents can happen and I am forced to work with my mistakes. This something I think alot of artists forget when they draw. Your personality should come through in your work. That includes the mistakes and imperfections.

I heard a quote from Frazetta that I'll paraphrase 'cuz I don't recall it exactly but he said something When refering to his stroke and how he had to relearn how to paint with his left hand. He said he paints with his heart not his hand so he may may have to relearn how to translate what his heart wants to say with his left hand but it does change what he does. Don't hate the medium because you think it makes you lazy. Blame yourself for letting it make you lazy.

I dislike the medium used singularly, not out of laziness, but out of its lack of capturing my intention.

you agree with me that using the programed strokes takes away from the work, and say also that the program is the same as oil paint, when it is not. Rarely will someone be able to make their color pallate identical each time they go to work. Or click on color dodge, when they would have to study color theory in any other painting setting.

If the artist simply runs through the menu to find a programed stroke and does the entire work with it, then yes, the only thing separating the particular peice from any other artist is the subject matter. Even if you layer it, part of literal layering is texture, and all digital media can do is imitate that however the software engineer thought it would look.

The program tells you what a pen with such and such width can do...which is a calcuation in the end...and so naturally if i work in digital media, it is inevitable that i will have the same kind of lines as someone else. I can make countless types of strokes while i am painting that i'm sure the program had not thought of. People can take time out to create their own strokes, but for me personally i find it takes away from my concentration-I might make 5 consecutive strokes, each vastly different from one an other, is anyone going to sit and program each individual stroke for one work? That is not laziness, it is taking the middle man out of my process.

the stylist for the wacom pen is just simply not sensitive enough to capture what your actual pen can do on a page. You cannot compare oils to the digital media. With digital media the marks are being translated through a pen and a program/s, with guache/oil/acrylic/ink...the only thing translating the artists intention is themselves.

in complete honesty the only way i can ever tell the difference between someones digital work is by what their subject matter is. I am sure many people would be hard pressed to single out someones digital work by looking at their marks.

The whole thing with the left hand...its still a hand, where the only thing in between him and his intention is a paint brush.

and let me just restate, this is my personal conclusion about the digital media. There are many artists i look at who use digital media. My conclusions stay the same, the difference is the artists in these cases use the digital media intelligently.

[tttia]

I am a hobbyist. For folks like me digital media is just awesome. My wife took a degree in traditional art and loves to do the oils, make her own frames, etc. She loves getting out the old clothes and slapping the texture on. But since she is a full time mom with 3 kids who are hyper as anything she just doesn't get time to do it. To set up, go to the studio in the house, wash extra clothes, wait on drying, etc. it just isn't practical.

I never took a formal class with the exception of a water color course in college that was just for kicks. I just started drawing on my own. Later on after college I actually got back into art when I was doing signatures on a game board--hardly fine art :) But it was fun, and the guys encouraged each other to learn more. So I picked up a wacom refurbished, 100 bucks, an old version of corel photopaint and corel draw (60 bucks) and just have tons of fun with em. My wife envies the fact that I can do it quickly, and is thinking of doing it too. As for a printer...I just put my stuff on DA and get a 20 buck print account, and I get them for cheap, at much higher quality than I would on my lousy printer. And if I want them for gifts at christmas time I just have them shipped right from DA.

For me I would never have the money, time etc. to learn by traditional means. But this allows me to play around and delete a work if I don't like it. No loss of funds, no problem. For me it has been great.I don't have to worry about deadlines, or if it is any good. I just have to know that it is better than the one I did a month ago.

I just picked up a copy of painter 7 for 35 bucks. So now I have a lot more to play with.

I imagine when the kids get older we will sit around and she will teach me oils and we can take it easy. But for now she is wanting a wacom of her own :)

As for why people drift toward fantasy and sci-fi...I honestly think because it is one of the few marketable realism haven's left. For anyone with appreciation for what it takes to do one looking at a perfectly done realistic portrait is amazing. But for the average person they look at it and say "why didn't ya just take a photo?". And magazines etc. with deadlines wonder the same. But photos are not an option for dragons, space ships etc. So why not go that route? I just see it as a practical decision. And for those who get into that style, they simply enjoy the possibilities of making something that isn't real "realistic".

[thebluepuppy]

point taken everyone. very good feedback on this so far. nocturne your absolutly right man. the wacom cant capture those little nuances in my opiniion that are crated with pencil, pen, paint..etc.

ttia- in your circumstance i can understand why you would be attracted to digital. its quick, and easy. i was never undermining digital as a hobby. one thing that i could probaly guarentee you though is if you start painting traditionally that you'll probaly see more progress faster. good luck either way. :confident

[cotron]

You know, you'd make a lot more progress if you spent the time painting (both traditionally and digitally) in the time it took to write out all these comments..

[thebluepuppy]

hey i seen some of your work in your sketchbook. very nice stuff. hardly any digital though.i should be drawing right now :$