Fig.Drawing for all its worth - Page 38, 39

[Sam0s]

Hey,

Just to make it clear :), I am a beginner and just started out 3 days ago. Decided to start my path with Loomis book For All Its Worth, though Im having some issues already here at the start.

Problem with Loomis book is that he illustrates way more than he can explain.
I find it hard to find out "how" the weight should be carried in different positions that a person has. Are there any other guidepoints one can use to position the figure in a desired way?
Like one issue is the spine, is there any books on how the path of the spine works? the limitations on how to bend it in different directions.

yah thats bout it, if anyone else has been through this stage, please fill in and share your experience and how you dealth with these parts of the progress.

Thanks in advance people, any help is appriciated.

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[Patton Art]

I'm not an expert or anything. So just take my advice with a... grain of rice... or something... (i forget how that saying goes; but i'm sure you know what i mean. lol). I wouldn't consider myself a total newbie...
I never had classes or anything (I'm a freshman in college now, but only at a little ol' community college)... sooo... here's my first real figure drawing... i did LOTS of sketches and studies before this though. it's about 6 months old now, though...

http://www.geocities.com/nubefatal/figuredrawing_mirror.txt
I'm obviously not up to Jason or Andrew's level, nor even a "small studio" pro level... but... I think I could still give advice to an absolute beginner.
sooooo, here's how i started out learning:

I never looked through Loomis' books. I've heard tons of good things about them, though; but, I got one book that I LOVE. It's called "An Atlas of Human Anatomy for the Artist" by Stephen Rogers Peck. If you really want to learn your anatomy, I'd recommend pickin that up.
I would study different parts of the skeletal structure every night. I think I tried to follow a certain schedule (mondays i studied skulls, tuesdays i studied rib cage/spine, wed. i studied bla bla bla, etc etc). I would do sketches out of the mirror, trying to see how my skeleton showed through.
Studying the skeleton really helped my figures get more form... they looked a lot more like a think of gelatin or something before. They're obviously not perfect now, but, when I started studyin that I saw a big improvement in very little time.
SOOO... yeah... study your anatomy in depth. Also, draw from life EVERY day. I got a huge mirror in my room that I move around, and I draw myself from it every day.
Oh yeah... I don't know what you consider yourself to be an absolute beginner... I dunno if you took any high school art classes (or currently are in high school?). So... you might want to start out with some basic stuff too (i mean, you could do basic stuff and anatomy as the same time, couldn't ya?). Read up about light sources, perspective, composition, etc and draw a lot of still lifes. You have to understand how to render forms first... but again, I don't know how "newbie"ish you REALLY are.

so, yeah, this is just all my personal opinion on how to start out. I wouldn't take my word for it like it was the word of a pharoah in Egypt; hopefully other people will respond with other ideas, eh?

I do know one thing that every experienced artist will agree on, though; and that's draw from life A LOT!

edit> oh yeah, i remembered some other things. i remember a friend of mine used to have to draw skeletal overlays of his figure drawings. i've also heard that sculpting the bones can help a lot: it helps you understand the structure of the bones more, and helps your visualize how the bones look from all different angles.

hope i'm helpful to ya :-D

[Sam0s]

indeed

sounds logical, thanks for taking your tim to post a reply patton art!

your figure drawing is amazing!, i like it a lot and i wonder, for how long have you actually been drawing all&all ?

now, yes i do want to learn the anatomy, though how far should i go?
This book you mention, it seems interesting, but what does it cover? what will find within the book, bones 'n muscles? or is there any relations to art besides bonestructures in different poses?, real bones or drawn?
would love to hear the content of the book.

how newbish am i...hm, i started drawing seriously 4 days ago. meaning that before that i've practically just drawn when forced to, like when you were told to learn writing ;). well nah not really, but you get me, true beginner.
But i believe i have a strong insight to whats important and whats less important when it comes to drawing though...but never enough so keep fillin me in :)

anyway, how detailed should the studies of the bonestructure be? and how important is it?, that is, do i need to know what function each and every tiny little bone has in the body?
right now im just workin with that Loomis - simplified mannikin model to get the feel of how to sketch a pose and get a feel of the weight in different positions, any ideas of other Ways that i can implement or combine with loomis stuff ?

I feel strongly that i should and want to learn the bonestructure WELL and it seems confirmed now after Patton Arts post that i should. So any ideas of different ways to approach my goal is apprciated.

thanks again Patton Art

,and all others that had the patience to listen :)

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[dbclemons]

Loomis draws his manekins in a very simplified manner for the legs and arms (just uses lines,) so that may be too little for you to start with. You might find it more helpful, as I do, to start with the overall shape of the limbs and torso, like those wooden artists manekins.

As important as it is to understand anatomy, not too many of us are lucky enough to see naked people walking around all the time. Usually they are clothed. If you have a strong understanding of the form underneath, you'll find that more useful on a regular basis.

If you want to reproduce extreme poses, study pictures of sports figures, and break down their figures into simplified 3D shapes. This will better help you understand how the forms are reproduced on a page. If you have a DVD player, set the pause on a frame that looks interesting, and draw from that.

I find drawing the spine line is only useful to get the overall flow of the pose for quick gesture drawings. It's soon left behind in a more structured drawing.

-David

[Patton Art]

hey,
thanks for the compliments :-D
hopefully other people will respond too; but, i get email notes if people respond to a post by me... so... I'm back here again :)

I don't have that much experience... I dunno if I said before, but I'm a college freshman at community college, so I've only had high school level art courses (which were pretty crappy... the teacher was into cartoons, so, all we did was collage cut-outs and copying photos or even comics out of the newspaper).

But I've been drawing (like the typical cliche) ever since I was really young. I got serious about it my sophomore level in high school, but, that was more like "serious" about drawing "japanimation". I started studying in depth around late 11th grade... sooo... I have no idea how old you are, wether you're older or younger than me; but, it's never too late to start. I've heard Van Gogh didn't start painting until he was in his 30's.

The reason I like Atlas of Human Anatomy so much is because it breaks down the anatomy of the body so much. A very large portion of the book is about skeletal structure: it goes through every bone, and even talks about where various muscles insert and such. Then it goes on to muscles, where they insert and where they originate; what they do, etc. Then it goes on to some other info (difference in races, placement of fat, anatomy of the eyeball, lips, nose, etc etc). So, it really covers everything. Also, it uses illustrations, not photographs. But the artist is pretty dang good. I did this while in high school, and our health teacher had a skeleton. So, I used them together. It helped lookin at a skeleton and seeing in 3d exactly what Peck is talking about. that's not needed though. Though, it helped me most when learning the forms of the pelvis; it's pretty complex looking and is a lot easier to see in 3d instead of illustrated or photographed.

It doesn't really tell you how to draw a figure from life. But, it helps a lot. I've never worked with a live figure, except for myself. But, I know when I do my figure drawings out of the mirror, it has helped me see how my body is made up. I don't just see a person; I got an understanding of how the sternocleidomastoid runs from behind my jaw down to my sternum. It helps me understand how my trap muscles originate in the back of my head and attach to my clavicle and scapula.

So, for information on drawing from life; like understanding planes, how to render form from life, etc etc I'd use the Loomis books. I've also heard A LOT of good things about bridgeman's book about drawing from life. I never read it, but, as I said, I read many good things about it. SOOOO... I think it would be great to use them in tandem (is that the world?) together. One teaches you to understand the structure of the body, the other teaches you to look at the forms that you actually see in front of you.


Hmmm... speaking of all of this... i need to get back into my anatomy studies. I haven't studied any anatomy in depth for a looooong time :-\

Oh yeah, you'll see that Peck's book is pretty complex. It has all the names of the bones, and even breaks down parts of those bones. I've tried to learn most of the important parts; but I've heard that you don't really need to learn the names; you just have to understand how everything fits together and get an idea of the structure of the body. Which works, of course... but I just like to look at someone and say 'don't touch my anterior superior iliac crest!" and look smart ;) lol j/k

edit> oh yeah... check this out. it might help.
http://drawsketch.about.com/cs/figuredrawing/index.htm check out the gesture drawing section in particular.
http://www.fineart.sk/ this site is dedicated to figure drawing and anatomy...

[Sam0s]

GREAT!

Thanks patton, i found that figure drawing link very helpful!! right after reading your post i actually went directly there and i got hung up with the gesture drawing tutorial, its really something (!!) , now i have a 'grid" / base i can work with when it comes to...well everything and especially figure drawing! this was exactly what i needed, a well explained manikin figure that I can start with everytime i draw somethin! great! though, im still gonna wander on and look for other ways to approach final drawings, maybe ill find something i can combine with this if not replace some stuff.


Its interesting that pecks book cover so much, does involve explinations and such or is it just named images and brief text?
Cause i have a book that covers the bone/muscle structure in detail with loads of illustration for each bone/muscle in different perspective views...but Android once said that one shouldnt draw out of others drawings since there are so many faults in them. dont know if that stands for beginners really but it sure made me hold the thaught of trying to draw them.

and oh yah, how much time did you spend on each bone ? ( not that i intend to stop before i know the function of each bone, just wanna use this for an approx knowledge of how long it could take)
and did you ever use your knowledge at this time to try to make something out of real life drawing, like did you draw anything from your imagination?

well right now im so anxious to get back to that tutorial page so thats just what i'll do! :)


thx a lot patton, appriciate you takin the time posting replies (!)

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PS. Im 20 years old, junior at a college for design&animation.