Many lack director skills

[Paer_J]

I see pictures here, and what I see is that all of you lack director skills. Monsters with babes and tits. They belong in Hollywood b movies. Okay, the picture is different, but your director skills wouldn't take you to Tinseltown. Yes, I'm bored. If Steven (director of fame) saw your pictures, he would probably laugh. No, no, no... for God's sake. Some pictures are professional. A picture of a nice looking woman was recently posted (in the pretty girl thread) and she looked exactly like a porno star. But, then the whole picture got ruined by the fact that she was holding a bloody knife in her hand. When you create all these mech tech robots and you know girls, see it from a director's perspective. Is this good enough to be in a great Hollywood movie? Think more of films like E.T.. Sure, draw pretty girls and men with swords. But, try to direct the picture more. Always think, would this work in a scene. Would it then belong in a budget movie. That's what I wanted to say. No, I lack the skills to paint colorful pictures or so. But, I see that all of you artists here have no director skills. Sure, you could direct movies, but you wouldn't make Schindler's List or even Star Wars. No, my friend. Next time you make a picture, think more DiCaprio, and less Jenna. Okay, before I get lot's of angry letters, I think I should go and take cover somewhere. Weeeesh...

[dogfood]

Looks I'm close to being first to comment.

I think you're missing the point of this site. Your comments seem very similar to raving about how the guys who design cars could never win in the bush league, much less NASCAR. I'm certain you're going to garner a lot of vitriol, but several of your points are valid (for many members, but not all). Pointless, but valid.

[Spartan]

Hi -
If I follow, you are suggesting that people incorporate more cinematic, or scene-based elements into their drawings. While I generally agree, I think your analogy is a bit flawed.

Not every sketch, doodle, pinup, or character concept is going to be on par with a hollywood blockbuster. Drawing a 'Jenna' (I like that term btw!) is more like the equivalent of directing a music video or Tide ad. It is a small, disposable bit of entertainment that doesn't purport to be anything but what it is. Why do we do them? To warm up, hone anatomy, practice style...all things that will eventually take us to full-fledged 'directed' pieces.

[Paer_J]

>If I follow, you are suggesting that people incorporate more cinematic, or scene-based elements into their drawings. While I generally agree, I think your analogy is a bit flawed.

No, no, not cinematic aspects. I guess you refer to what do I name it camera views. If you draw let's say a big and freaky warrior, don't always make that 'I'm big and mean' look. Instead, for once, let me see a warrior that is falling down, desperate and tired, ready to cry, holding his sword with a shaky grip. I'm talking human psychology. Not beautiful scenes with that 'orchestra' factor.

[evildisco]

You are basically talking about narrative and composition, I don't know really whats bugging you.
Originality, maybe?
Realize that some don't have the skill or the desire to do such thing.
Besides, I don't agree with your remark, "Is this good enough to be in a great Hollywood movie?" not all concept work is geared towards that kind of level, there are many sides to the entertainment design industry.
Many times you can't do what you like but what you know sells.
Thats the way of commercial art, unless you prefer to starve for the sake of integrity.

[Paer_J]

>Originality, maybe?
Realize that some don't have the skill or the desire to do such thing.

Freakin' no. This forum is loaded with originality, even the not so amazing pictures. But, okay director skills are few. If you look at a porno movie, what is the first thing you notice. A woman, if you like women ofcourse. But, what would a porno movie be without a man and a woman who happily do their act. I mean, if you take away the woman, then there's only the guy. The illusions go away. That's what I mean. Add a little magic to pictures. Think of unusual things that could work together, and you have an interesting picture. Not always the cute robot and his pretty bike. Instead, the robot and his pizza delivery boy showing up. Hmm.. or pizza lady. Either way, have fun.

[evildisco]

You are contradicting yourself.

[Paer_J]

>You are contradicting yourself

Where?

[squirpy]

the thing is, the more advanced artists here are doing what you say, and the less advanced are practicing to get to that point. Everyone goes through phases where they thing that their ideas are brand new, when really, they've been done over and over and are just the standard pose for the standard character. They'll come out of it soon enough.

[dogfood]

I may have completely misunderstood your point (but in my own defense, I've reread your original post a few times and it seems like you were intoxicated). If you are saying that many of the pieces here could profit from better "camera" angles, poses, lighting, action, flow, energy and atmosphere, you are correct. I must ask, though, what do you think this site is for? Some may think that it is here to boost the egos of a select elite, but that is a very shallow view. Most people come here to better their trade or help others get better. Until very experienced, most artists tend to improve elements a few at a time. Most start with proportions and relationships, then move on to value and lighting, then perhaps color and composition. It's the combination of all these skills that make a good piece and it is to that end that many (not all) artists are striving.

A random shout, "you guys suck", doesn't seem as helpful as laying out and illustrating your point clearly; perhaps with examples and lucid writing. The constant, rambling reference to pornography is certainly amusing, though.

[evildisco]

This forum is loaded with originality, even the not so amazing pictures.
and then
Think of unusual things that could work together, and you have an interesting picture. Not always the cute robot and his pretty bike. Instead, the robot and his pizza delivery boy showing up. Hmm.. or pizza lady. Either way, have fun.

See you are contradicting yourself.
Either that or you can't express your ideas clearly.

[Paer_J]

>>I.This forum is loaded with originality, even the not so amazing pictures.
>>II. Think of unusual things that could work together

>See you are contradicting yourself.

First things first. Originality means someone's original work, not a freakin' copy. Unusual things are labeled as unique. Got it?

[Xaya]

Perhaps you are right with the lack of "director" skill.

I myself surely like to see psychocial based painting very much.
(with are connected to such skills which here isn´t seen by u)
Nevertheless i am the same way impressed by the drawing skills in here,
witch are shown with tight girls and angry creatures...

In my opinion the thing is, that here is shown the progress of the skills ,the style..... most people here are student (think so!?)
and the first thing is to learn... learn by practise...
so i first catch a magazine or a model and try to get the stuff right on my paper... instead of thinking of a complex story and manifest this on my paper.
this comes later!!

I saw it at the first and second time painting with oil on canvas...
i try, or better can´t really do something against it, to make a story a psychocial thing (much autobiographic), where colors and the characters themself and the lenscape have symbolical meaning... i did these paintings and i like the intention, but the painting itself was only "just ok".
Know what i mean?

[Muzz]

>Originality means someone's original work, not a freakin' copy. Unusual things are labeled as unique.

but surely if something is purely original it is instantly classed as unique

[Paer_J]

>The constant, rambling reference to pornography is certainly amusing, though.

Dogfood, I understand why you think it's amusing. It's as dirty as Your name.

[Paer_J]

>>Originality means someone's original work, not a freakin' copy. Unusual things are labeled as unique.

>but surely if something is purely original it is instantly classed as unique

Muzz, I don't want to go further into this discussion. Many here seem to be students. Pretend that you're right, anyway.

[Hamsta]

a. Should'nt this go in the lounge section?
b. English may not be your first language, but I don't think that's an excuse for a lack of English skills.
c. Why only movies? I'd have to say that video games seem to be where most of these concepts belong, then again there are plenty of purely illustrative and artistic pieces in here, which aren't meant to be turned into scenery, custom design or 3d objects.
d. How about actually learning director skills and creating a guided excercise to show how to make directed pieces?

[Paer_J]

>How about actually learning director skills and creating a guided excercise to show how to make directed pieces?

Oh no, Hamsta. Then I want 10$ million dollars. I'm better than Mr. James Cameron.

[prostate sunrise]

well, he has a point, i do watch a hell of a lot of porno.

[sone_one]

hahaha valid point prostate :P

[evildisco]

>How about actually learning director skills and creating a guided excercise to show how to make directed pieces?

Oh no, Hamsta. Then I want 10$ million dollars. I'm better than Mr. James Cameron.

Modest are we?
If you are here just to rant and thats it, I don't think it helps anyone.

[dogfood]

Dogfood, I understand why you think it's amusing. It's as dirty as Your name.

Why do you have to be like that? Where's the love?

[Paer_J]

>Why do you have to be like that? Where's the love?

The love sunk with Titanic in 1998. I regret my deepest feelings for this, but I feel that I have reached a galactic dimension that goes far above the cloudy clouds which are none other than the poor emotions of River Phoenix in a candy box full of screwdrivers where the lost imagination sets apart from the rest of the world. There you have it, dogfood.

[jzero]

Paer J: He who has the true skills doesn't need to tell people how good he is, he just shows it. Why don't you start a project (that may or may not involve other artists for you to direct) which helps demonstrate your ideas and how good you are at executing them.

If you say you know a better way, then show us. Then you won't come off as a jerk.

/jzero

[Janshi]

Good God the ego here is stifling.

Dont criticize without SHOWING how to do better. First thing any first class critic should learn.

[USER777]

dear paer_j, where ever you may come from:

some of your points, in deed, may be valid, and i'm sure that you have some opinions that seem to be very manifested within your ego.
i've actually read this whole thread and first i thought :
"whoa, this guy's right, a hell lotta guys here draw nothing but the same chars, the same stances/poses/mimic over and over again"
well, this is what i thought when i read your first post.. but within your heavy amount of quotation you seem to make some quite paradox statements.
wou say that most people here have a "lack of director skills" but also that this forum is "filled with originality"
reading the rest of your posts i was actually quite amused that you are obviously trying to "patch" your original statement by giving contradictive statements.

"First things first. Originality means someone's original work, not a freakin' copy. Unusual things are labeled as unique. Got it?"

well, actually original and unique pretty much mean the same thing.. look 'em up in your dictionary!

by the way.. many guys here actually work for the by you mentioned "hollywood studios" and did a lot of succesful movies.. so there shouldn't be a lack of director skills with them, heh?
anyway, most of the guys here are just starting out with arts (concept arts) and didn't really spend that much time thinking about what to express with their pictures.. they mostly just want to create something that can be criticized by the other guys technique-wise.

"The love sunk with Titanic in 1998. I regret my deepest feelings for this, but I feel that I have reached a galactic dimension that goes far above the cloudy clouds which are none other than the poor emotions of River Phoenix in a candy box full of screwdrivers where the lost imagination sets apart from the rest of the world. There you have it, dogfood."

well, that's just meaning.. kinda.. nothing?! i don't get it! :nohope:

"Is this good enough to be in a great Hollywood movie?"

what the hell is so great about "great Hollywood movies" anyway? why are you always talking about them.. sure most so-called blockbusters are very detailed from storyboard to production but a lot of them don't even come up with innovative new elements film-wise.. movies like "the day after tomorrow" may be visually stunning but they've got no breathtaking new views in film-making!

the point is that by making "concept-art" as far as i understood it, you are in most parts making "art for the masses" and by that you get told what to develop and try to make it visually interesting.. most brilliant concept-artists have another more personal side of art attached to them and in their spare-time they often come up with very innovative styles and stances..

i still don't get your point and hope you can finally speak out clearly for yourself..

Lim :bashful:

[evildisco]

Lim I think we are on the same wave length.

[WildSpruceMoose]

I like the complimentary colours you through into this and the composition is strong, but the anatomy is off and overall makes the movement of the painting a bit weak... This isn't even the right forum for your little troll post.

[USER777]

lol Moose..
guess posting is a waste of time here.. this guy's nothing but hot air.. like a fart maybe ?! :x

[Oliver23]

Paer_J, tell us who you are, what you do, where you come from. You mentioned that you struggle with painting colorful pictures. If so, if you yourself admit that you are not a brilliant visual artist, then with what reason, and with what credibility do you have so you can to talk on the same plane and even glower down at the rest of us?

[WildSpruceMoose]

Hahaha :pump: all generalizations are false.

EDIT: I just thing the whole thread was done in bad taste, in the wrong section. I can see how one(him) would think they were right and all, but come on, if people want to draw pertty ladies then why should some post like this stop them? So long as when a director comes to them for storyboards or concept art they can deliver, and put an original spin onto the idea.

If artist's weren't allowed to draw their beautiful pr0no based women in cliched battle scenes, many would lose their way and not very many would move onto fine/traditional/industry standard art.

Remember that this forum is as much about the learning of the amateurs as it is about the pros who hang out and run this place. Whatever got people interested in art is irrelevant so long as they grow and produce what they, and their employers are pleased with...many of the people you so critiquely scold may be young in their art, possibly not even out of high school yet...

Were you a perfect professional before post secondary school?

[Sinix]

Monsters, mechs, and hot girls...... it's almost as if they're doing concept art for video games and not movies.

[Mike Frank]

Dude you are right but the thing is that you dont just start your career out by making the hollywood blockbusters. Say my ambition is to be a director, I start out probably getting some cheesy camcorder and playing around with the different effects I could get out of simple editing and camera angles (fundamental aspects). As I continue to play around and work on projects, my work will benefit from the time I have spent simply experimenting around with the basics. If I just woke up one day and said "Hey I'm going to direct hollywood movies", I would quickly get overwhelmed by all of the possible options available to me and probably fail at telling my story effectively. (Ever seen a real newbie's powerpoint presentation complete with sound effects and animations everytime you advance the slide??)

The point is that many of us here, myself included, have the ambition to be director's of our images. I am amazed whenever I look at really good work of art as I know that every single aspect of the image was made deliberately, with great thought and care that I can't come close to at this time. There are so many aspects that go into the creation of one really great image and it takes lifetimes to master. Not many people have the ambition to study every single aspect of art all at once, I think if I were to do that I would've given up a long time ago.

Did you ever have to draw a picture of your house and family as a little kid? You probably filled yourself with all of the emotions you have for your family and in the end were pretty proud of the image you had made. You might've showed it off to people and they said "that's good" in that encouraging kind of way that isnt very convincing. All of the good intent and emotion didnt save the picture one bit because it failed to be believable or realistic in the eyes of the viewer. We're all a bunch of little kids growing up trying to learn how to make our images look convincing, interesting, pleasing to the eye, and capture the emotions of our viewers. Rather than making our heads explode we'll settle for concentrating on certain aspects at a time.

[Slash]

>Why do you have to be like that? Where's the love?

The love sunk with Titanic in 1998. I regret my deepest feelings for this, but I feel that I have reached a galactic dimension that goes far above the cloudy clouds which are none other than the poor emotions of River Phoenix in a candy box full of screwdrivers where the lost imagination sets apart from the rest of the world. There you have it, dogfood.


I don`t know what you are on, but can i have some?

Why do you have anything against monsters, babes and titties? Have you ever played a video game? If you havent: FYI they are packed full of it.

Many people in these forums draw humans (girls in particular) to train anatomy. Giving the characters swords, guns or whatever, justifies a few otherwise awkward poses. Mastering odd poses are important to draw natural looking humans.

As people have pointed out before, not all concept design is movie-related. And if all concept artists are supposed to have such great director skills, what do we need directors for?

You bad mouthed pretty girls with bloody knifes... Then you tell us to think about great hollywood movies. Contradicting. Some of the most popular films out there are films like Halloween, Scream and i know what you did last summer. Those are blockbuster movies, yet they are filled with stiff-nippled girls with bloody knifes. OH NOES! YOR THEAORY DOSANT MAKE SENSE!!1

I am tired and have probably misspelled half my post. sorry...

And as my final words:
Titanic sank april 14th, 1912.
not 1998.

[N D Hill]

I really don't understand why people believe that they have to justify what they do because this guy joins the forum and spends ten of his first sixteen posts here making generalized, unsupported, non-constructive criticisms about the personal tastes of others.

I don't really care for the more “cliché” subjects exhibited here (with a few exceptions) but then again, who the hell am I to tell others what they can and can't like? You don't seem to realize that people mature as artists. Not just in regards to their skills but they begin to define their own tastes, revise them and eventually make the subjects conform to their vision instead of being bound by genre molds. Even if the subject matter doesn't change much, who are you to declare fallacy in that? Bottom-line; people have the right to express themselves in any way they desire despite it's marketability to a bunch of studio-executives who care more about demographic charts than film as an art-form. And let's not kid ourselves here. Modern big-budget film making may have its few diamonds-in-the-rough here and there but there's also all of the mass-marketed sausage filling that's really only made for that one summer opening weekend.

[Presence]

Paer_J if I may,

It sounds like you are asking for elements in conceptual design which belong in a polished film. The narrative elements in 'motion' pictures are much different than the conceptual design of a mech or any sexually charged female heros. :dad:

Some_Guy nailed in that reaching the levels of Spberg/ Lucas/ Kubrick/ Welles/ Eisenstein/ Coppola/ Scorsese/ Hitch takes TIME, yes there is talent and a childhood love for the art which in my opionion seperates the boys from the men. :blahblah:

If someone dropped down 10million onto my lap and told me to go and make a feature, I would be scared out of my mind and I have been playing with 16mm and XL1's all of my university life next to the thousands of senarios with my GIJOE's since I was about four. :bashful:

If you want the shaky nearly beaten hero imagry go and watch Conan or Gladiator because in the medium of conceptual design it can only go so far.

This is why I am in film.

[Reotharmus]

How can i guy/gal clear so delusional and possibly prepubescent spark of such a passionate thread.. i hate to say it but doesnt every forum need a loon.... :blahblah:


if for one am copmletely confortable with my lack of "director skills" as my work is a peice of a puzzle not the whole thing.. i make a robot look nice and feasable and then the other guys make it work then another guy makes it walk.. and taaaaa daaaaaa one big happy family with a finished product we can all be proud of...

i understand engineering and electronics so i use my strengths i am be now means a cinamatic master.

[Miau]

thats it - he starts a thread, makes us "angry" and now hes gone ;). Pear_J you are the bestest

[Mr. Pale]

Well the guy did have something of a point. I hate to admit it, but a high proportion of the drawings I do don't have much of an emotional impact... still trying to work on that with every picture.

I have noticed some artists are really good at making a picture seam like it's telling a story instead of just, "oh hey a guy with a gun...okay."

I kinda envy that, still working on that.

[helix7]

I'm going to take a stab in the dark here, but I'm guessing that this guy is more of a film buff than a concept artist (if he's an artist at all), and although there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, I think it keeps him from understanding how broad concept art really is. It's certainly not just for film (as mentioned by someone above), and even within the film industry there are aspects of concept art that do not call for a cinematic experience in order to be effective. Pick up any concept art book and you'll find tons of work that is something along the lines of a beautifully rendered character or creature on a white page. There is no background, and so there is definitely no cinematic "scene" feel, but they goal of the work is still achieved.

Beyond that, this is a web forum and not a portfolio review, so you should expect to see things that would not be shown to a potential employer or director. I highly doubt that many (if any) of the booby pictures end up in someone's book.

[thebluepuppy]

i hope this is read because i have just devised a theory. to start you off into this explanation let me first suggest that paer is not a person or living entity. paer infact is actually a made-up false "entity", by people concerned about the well-being of the art community. To understand this you first have to look at whats going on. this person is posting on "professionally related" sites, that have members that are involved in the same things as the people in concept art.org forums but are not posting in forums except for the ones on there "mother" site(the first site they went to and became a part of...for example the idga forum. by creating an entity that people can hate, people have a common bond. therefore causing people to post in other forums that this entity appears. this is the oldest trick in the book. for example, the kkk have a common enemy,black people.(which i dont support in any way shape or form, this anology is used for mere example only) because of this they create strong bonds together. its used in the branches of military. Also look at the terrorists of the world. they have one common enemy(in this case its paer,the enemy, that was created either to put a spark back into the community or to bring us closer together, that im not sure of) your probaly wondering how i came to this theory, right. first, let me say that i have degree in psychology, and studied and worked on many many things i dont want to get into right now. :wink: the first main and fishy reason is his personality. the way he strings his thoughts and comments is not normal. his writings are purposely slurred and jumbled to create a character that is as far away from human as possible to justify the right to hate him. I really admire the person who created this character. He has the ability to create such an other worldy character while still keeping him human. Its also funny that this is "entity" has no backround and almost the second he was created he started his havoc. this was the constructors only flaw. although you may say this flaw is small, it undercovered him and his true purpose. Also, if you look at this "entity"'s work it is obvioulsy purposefully made to look horrible. this style is forced. if you can see his style from the portraits to the landscapes they change drastically. the third and most important flaw is the one i find the find the funniest. this character was able to locate a free place to place his work and actually posted it, although the "entity's" personality would have us believe that he wouldnt be smart enough to do this. the "entity" can barely speak english, how could it possibly find, navigate and post its images. it couldnt. Also the images were optimized for the internet. Even though he has the skills neccasary to execute a "decent" website he still posted his images in a very hasty manner. also if he wants to become a profesional why would he use his "internet" name for his professional portfolio on geocities.simple. he doesnt exist.

[Jens]

pearj, artists don't like you to tell them what to do, you know that don't you?

[helix7]

thebluepuppy: There is now a well documented scientific internet term used to classify these people you speak of. They are called "trolls", and they are basically jackasses out to stir up some touble and gt a rise out of people. I have a feeling that this is what paer is, and I don't know if I can give him enough credit to plan out the scenario you suggest. Its hard to imagine someone actually trying to bring a community that they are not a part of closer together. What would be his reason? What does he get out of it?

I'm also sticking to the idea that he doesn't really know what concept art is about, or rather, he has his own definition of it, when really there isn't one single definition for all of the stuff people around here do. He feels it should be one way, when the reality is that concept art is so many different things.

[Imp Head]

Or perhaps they are simply trying to broaden our thinking.

Literal translations of tired, cliched characters no matter what level of technical skill they're rendered at are just that. By broadening the scope of our visions to hitherto unknown arenas of thinking will infuse our creations with new life and thus broaden not only our own work but also those that come after.

"We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams..." if we dimiss the snozzberry out of hand, where does that leave us?

Or, to quote another artist of a bygone era, "Free your mind and the rest will follow."

[thebluepuppy]

helix7: yes, i do believe he is a "troll" of some sort. whether his intentions are good or bad(which on the surface seems less then freindly), just look at all the discussion and excitement it had brought to this community. maybe i think to much but i think this paer j guy visits a forum, flames in such manner to acheive the desired effect that i wrote in my "paer j thesis" and leave.(check the lounge for bluepuppys paerj theory) i believe he succesfully fulfilled his mission and now has moved onto a new forum...but the real question is....where...... :$ .