why do i hate this?

[el coro]

this is one of those paintings that seemed like a good idea in the beginning, but somewhere along the way, it turned to complete shit. why? i cant quite tell, maybe y'all can help. what irritates you about this picture? tell me , i really want to know. thanks-c36
http://www.coro36ink.com/paintings/embrace.jpg

[wes9000]

its looking pretty nice to me...

well, the main thing i notice in it that bothers me is the womans leg in the background. theres no way it could connect properly to her hip the way it is right now....
also the guys upper arm seems really long(this is more of a minor thing i noticed)
hmm, also the breast draping over the mans bicep doest exactly appeal to me, but thats really just a personal thing...i think it would be more interesting to see it pressed up against the mans chest. the way it is right now just feels a little cartoony to me...

other than that, i absolutely love the lower right section with the subtle greens and blues and the orangish silhouettes
the males torso is fabulous (the shadow under the lowest rib seems a little sharp to me, but thats more of a personal thing). i also love the womans knee closest to the viewer

i really enjoy your subtle hints of line in your work...thats something always struggling with when i work on paintings, working line into a painting and have it balance out alright

but anyways i think this is really f*n nice, no where near being shit, hope you don't mind my comments.
whats the size of it?

-wes

also, is that giant razor thing in the middle ocming out of the guys crotch?? heheh

[Fozzybar]

Yes...i am irritated indeed...irritated that i can't find anything irritating :confused:

But as you asked for it, maybe it's the coloring of the background and the woman. It looks bleakly though the subject is everything else than this...maybe you can create some tension and power by using one of your red/orange color palette on this parts with strong contrasts between them...also circles in pictures make the composition go easily boring, because of their cohesive shape!

I hope i helped you a little ;)

[Jaku]

I can look same anatomical problems that wes9000; the girls right leg, man´s arm an the shoulder looks to big for me...

the mechanical things, except the girl´s head... that... doesn´t seem to be part of any of the bodys... i don´t know if i can explain well (f:bash:ing english!....), and... i don´t know what more can i say... the colors are lovely and the idea rocks. i don´t know....

i hope it helped...

[Living Rope]

the problem is that you seem to have become so disgusted by the painting that you did'nt finish it. Am I right ? The concept is poetic, the circle composition is cool, but the whole thing is FLAT. Since the character are well rendered, the rest of the image remains empty. Nothing happens around them.

I admire the style anyway ! please, try another one and post it again m8 !

[Coma]

Chorus.

I see a few problems that might be getting to you.
over all I love the idea and execution and colors.

Problems: her right leg seems out of joint at the hip.

the first thing that hit me was her breast, his body is covering some of her body and for the breast to look right in that position she would need to be in the foreground.

His elbow is too sharp a corner, making it seem like the arm is off proportion. His shoulder seems a little too muscular.


I disagree with some of the latter comments made, the only thing flat about this piece is her right leg.

[Vhy]

I think it needs more shadows - especially on the woman; some parts of her kind of blend with the background. Also I agree with wes... Some areas of this are really, really nice.

[foster]

probably because you are an excellent artist and thus never satisfied. but other wise i don?t know, because i love it! i just think that it is not finished yet.

there are some passages in this painting that are outstanding! take a step back wait a little longer and come back to it.

i brought it into photoshop and smudged it around a little, plus a little cloning and painting. if you are curious just superimpose it as a layer on your first to see what you like or not.

you may not like any of the things i changed. and to be honest (i usually am) it was difficult to find things to change. so in that regards my input is probably more a matter of taste than corrections.

i love the composition. it may not be deep (layered) enough. i love the elbow. you bring some geometry into the organic to set it apart. one thing i tried to do but did not get very far was to render the elbow to a higher degree, thus we objectify it above other parts and it becomes symbolic for man and machine.

how big is this and what did you paint it with?

jon

[apb]

I love this pic. Other than some of the crits above, the only thing that stands out, for me, is that he seems to be missing a leg. There is nothing to suggest that it's supposed to be missing or replaced by some bio-mechanical thingy.

Just my 2 cents.

[I.was.ink]

that's a nice painting. I would crit it but everyone else said what I was thinking. Nice paint over Jon!:)

[brokencow]

this is very well done! There are just a few problems that i can see.

It looks as though foster has fixed them though in his paint over, which is amazing...he can paint over any of my drawing anyday.

the leg is still a bit odd though.

This is just such a great painting....jezz

[brokencow]

http://www.brokencow.net/embrace-3.jpg

I did a paint over of fosters paint over.
The arm was a bit to long i though.
The leg was too high, i may be wrong...
And the guys head was way too small so i made it a bit bigger.

I love this picture alot...i don't see how you could dislike it...

make more!!

[el coro]

thank you everyone who replied! its nice to get this kind of feedback. i need to do this more often.
wes: good eye, man. i'm realizing that for a painting this size, i probably should have referenced some of it. the hip-oh god i hate the hip! and the boob- sometimess i just like painting boobs too much to see that it detracts from the overall picture. its an oil on canvas, 54x62 inches, and i think my main problem was that the drawing just wasnt finished enough to dive into a painting this size.
fozzy: i tried to really subdue the palette, but i agree it could use some warms.
living rope: yeah, i didn't "finish" it. i took it to the degree where everything is "rendered" but lacking in love.
foster: love ya man. you are a genius, dude. i love the cast shadow thing you do. i need to steal it! your suggestions just may have sparked me into re stretching this thing and properly finishing it. thank you soooo much for the paintover! i think you hit on EVERY single thing that was bothering me with it.
brokencow: the shortening of the arm and widening of the head makes a HUGE difference. thank you.
thanks again for all who replied. i really appreciate it. everybody does pieces that they cant stand to look at when they're finished. getting a good solid critique can really help you to look at it objectively. and no ooohs and aaaahs... oh yeah, i almost forgot, it IS a huge razor dick thing between his legs, wes!

[WhackZero]

...amazing art community...

[Oblio]

Oh boy...

I have a firewall problem and i can't see the pic's. DAMN! So i can't comment.
But whatever you do...

Leave the breasts alone!!! :D :D

Just kidding - i'm "muteless" - oh, ah, wow, fuck!
Just one thing - the metal spine that comes out of his back... doesn't look to merge with the guy - it seems separated somehow. I guess...
Finish-it Justin! I plan to change the wallpaper (yes.. the girl-saxophonist composition ;) )

Just my 5-th element.

Oblio

[Jabo]

This guy's left arm is missing, innit? Put it on her hips.

Then there's this absolutely exaggerated elbow on his right arm.

And well, I don't like this right hand, it should be complete to create some kind of focal point...

[Android]

Coro your nuts, I found this image on you website last week and its been my desktop background ever scence. Its actualy my favorite painting you have done yet. I have no crits, I fucking love everything about it.

[John P.]

Heh, this is a fun thread!

First of all, I'd like to say the original is very nice work. :thumbsup:

But I couldn't help myself for wanting to do some stuff to it myself, since the others did it.

So I took the original and did this. I thought it would be a good idea to make the spike thing seem to come more from between his legs. And I also moved her leg and added(the easiest way possible, but you get the point) a leg to the guy.

You don't have to agree with it, it's just for fun. :p

So here's "my version" :

http://home.online.no/~johmoe/images/embrace_paintover.jpg

[Lono]

yah,, this is seriously my new favorite from you... even with the walleyed mamory.

but i deffinately agree with the crits made above. especially foster and brokencow.

something that bothers me that no one ele touched on is the guys head. i think it looks a bit flat and rushed. kinda like a cut out. i have this same problem, whenever a head is partially obscured it is hard for me to paint it as if it were a complete object behind whatever is covering it. that make any sense?
like maby try painting the entire head on a layer in photoshop. go ahead and paint over her arm, and once you get to a place where you think it has been properly addressed,, just erase the area out where her arm falls and drop the shadows in.. i imagine it would look more consistant that way.. you could use that for refference on your physical painting.
it looks like brokencow added a bit more dimention to the head in his paintover, but i think it could be taken even further.

just my opinion though. if no one else was bothered by it,, then maby its just me. :)



-Lono

[Loga4]

HEY FOSTER RESTORE THE BREASTS!!@@!!!:D

ElCoro everything is very very good,so just
fix leg,and Foster suggestion is good way
to finish this.
Success!

[Prometheus|ANJ]

Very impressive rendering at certain spots I'd have to say. Esp. on the male torso. Lot's of neat eyecandy scattered aroud too.

Critwise:

I see no forshortening on any of the limbs. I think they look a bit too long cuz of this.

If it was my painting I'd work on the edges of the painting some more. I'd add, remove or blur/fog some cables/tech until I feel the image balance is right.

On Foster's PO I see that he darkened the edges to remove the contrast between the sky and the black cables, plus he blurred them and removed some highlights. I think this helps to bring the focus more on the 'couple'.

The details on the cables are very nice to look at though, so it's almost a shame to 'simplify' them into mere peripheral objects.

edit: Nice to see so many doing PO's btw.

[cos]

Main thing crits wise I noticed was the the figures were too flat, the egdes mostly needed more rendering. Think foster adressed that well in the po tho. Also great anatomy input from people, head was definetely too small I reckon, in need of some more lighting, losing the outlines etc..

That aside still think it's still a kick arse painting, few minor adjustment this will rock even harder, great work!

[Rinaldo]

I'm with Android, stupidly good. don't touch it. esp not the boob!!!!! pls, that's the best bit. :F

I know sometimes you can get annoyed at a pic cos it's not what you had in mind etc.
my only observation would be that it seems to break in and out of being very two dimensional. some parts are very graphic, while others are trying to give it a bit of depth. mainly her leg in the background I am talking about, if she only had the one showing, the lack of depth might seem less apparent, simply becuase the image then becomes very graphic (which I love..not every image has to have depth in that sense) and it might help the focus a bit...not sure. the leg really keeps draging my eyes away from the more interesting things in there, could be that it is very dark. kind of messes with the depth perception, my eye keeps thinking it is on the same plane as the other dark bits down there, when it could be a bit lighter, push it back.

hmm, as in
http://www.seraphseven.com/rinaldo/rubbish/elcoro-paintover.jpg
?

this is prolly the opposite of what mr foster did. killing the depth even more so the graphic nature of the design comes out. whereas he tried to put more depth in.

[el coro]

thanks to all who replied!
android: i'm really glad you like this one! shit, that makes one of us. hehe...
john P: nice repositioning! i agree that looks better.
lono: thanks dude, yeah i cheaped the head. i really should have finished the drawing more before i started in on the painting. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, ya know? i totally cheaped the head...
loga4: thanks. yaeah boobs are cool.
Prometheus|ANJ: thanks. there is a lack of forshortening. i think i might have been trying to rely too much in the design, and not enough on real anatomy, and it fucked me. im also glad to see all the po's. its always great to see someone what someone else would do in your shoes...
cos: yeah i think tits way too linear. not my favorite rendering style at all...
Rinaldo: thanks, nice to see a fresh take, and you know, this is what i intended to do with her back leg, but i just ran out of love for this piece before i got to. i think ima dig this mah'fucker out and work back into it....thanks you guys

[redehlert]

WHOA!
I must say that the critiques and reviews are phenominal...
My only thought was that I couldn't get past the breast just hanging over the guy's arm. The variations where the breast is covered up by the arm seems more correct to me, although it's a beaut to see.
; )

At any rate, if the breast were to be exposed, I think there would need to be more of a twist of the shoulders of the gal towards the viewer (us).

One more small caveat: the calvarium (skull cap) that has a notch taken out of it shows us the goods inside the head (I'm gonna say he still has his brain in there...). The thing is, this guy would be considered rather 'thick-headed' due to the depth of skin/skull to the brain. Decrease the depth about 1/2 and you've got it. Sorry to nitpick....

I love the texture, color and design and again, the posts have been fantastic.

Personally....take a step back, have a fat tire and come back to it later.
It's awesome!

Cheers,
D