sorry, more help

[AndrewAnimation.com]

sorry, i pollute this board :bashful:

but i need help again. i'm currently about 20% through illustrating an entire childrens' book for only $200, and by my calculations, it'll probably take me around 250 hours to complete it, which includes the time i already spent on it. my parents found out about it today, and are urging me to tell my client that i should get paid a lot more than that. i didnt sign an agreement or anything, but still i don't feel right about telling her that since i'm deep into the project now. o, and i didnt find the job on ca.org so i don't mind talking about it here. what bothers me is, what if i just wrote a little story myself and gave it the kind of quality i'm giving this project? even after the publishing fees, wouldn't i make a lot then?! :S

so i was wondering, how much does someone in our field typically get paid for illustrating a childrens' book that takes around 250 hours?

[Duncan]

The usual fee for first time illustrators working on a childrens picture book with the standard 32 pages is roughly a $1500-$4000 advance plus 3.5%-5% royalties against your advance after enough copies have sold. That's a ballpark range because there's a lot of variables in there but I took a look at your page and a quick judge of your artwork, you should be getting mid to upper of that range I gave you. If you enjoy doing it that's great, it'll look good on a resume if you ever want to do another children's book. But yeah, they're getting a lot of work for very little money. If anything ask for a lot of copies of the final product or tearsheets of some of the illustrations you like the most. Those make good promotional materials.

[AndrewAnimation.com]

thanks for the response

i wish i knew how much illustrators make before i got into this one. you said it, its a lot of work for little pay. i'm still at it all day, and it's 48 pages. id like to get the first time illustrator pay you mentioned, not to mention royalities... i dont despise the work but i'd sure rather do something that's leaning very far on quality in the quality-quantity scale for my portfolio. im giving this project quality since im attaching my name to it but i'm still limited by the pay and deadline. i was gonna ask for just one copy of the book, but yea, i might as well try my luck with more than that. it's just, with a budget like $200, i'm guessing they're reeeeaaaally cheap.

thanks,
andrew

[Mike Porter]

I am going to try to hand down some wisdom that my father handed down to me.

If you already agreed verbally to anything then you should stand by that agreement. I would personally chalk this one up to a learning experience and move on to the next thing. So here is the wisdom that my father handed down to me.

"People rarely remember what they paid, but they always remember what they got"

After you do this piece you will not only have a check for the work you did but a portfolio piece. If they want you to work on the next one then charge them the going rate.

[AndrewAnimation.com]

thanks for your response

yeah, definitely, i'm finishing this project. the truth is i might have even done it again if time were reversed, cuz it's pretty cool having your art published. it just bothers me to think they're taking advantage, thats all. there's very little text spread across the 48 pages, (24 double spreads) so 95% of the product they're actually selling is the artwork... hehe, u could actually build a very successful company just by working off the fact that talented new people are attracted to exposure for low pay

thanks,
andrew

[Duncan]

I don't think most people make too much off their first children's book because it's so hard to get in to those big publishers who shell out the big advances. I wouldn't say this publisher is taking advantage of you either, they probably just have a small budget like you said. All that work will be worth it when you see that first copy of your work in print. Congrats!

[AndrewAnimation.com]

thanks for your response

yea, i did think this was a cool opportunity from the start. it's when i stopped for a minute and calculated the amount of hours i'll end up spending on it that i started to wonder about it though, then i asked a whole lotta people how much they would charge for the description of the job i gave, and got responses as low as $200 and as high (and crazy?) as $36,000, probably with an average of around 10 grand. its ok if they cant pay me due to a tight budget but they're not even giving me royalties in the case that they do make money on what's basically 95% my product...

thanks,
andrew

[Captain Graviton]

Andrew,

Mike Porter had a very wise Father. I'm going to pass down to you what my Father would say..

"They're taking the piss son. Fuck 'em"

You decide.

[AndrewAnimation.com]

hahahahhahahaa!

well, ideally, i would just get this published myself, but then i'd need the story, and i doubt there's any way my client would let me buy it. its just a short, typical picture book story, but still id be pretty hard-pressed to try to use these drawings with different text of my own..hehe... nah, not much to do but continue..

thanks,
andrew

[Hei Gwei]

Howdy,

I've been in this situation before and I have to agree with the guy who said that since you agreed to it, finish it. That's just a good way to do business. As far as my advice (after the fact): always negotiate a job as if you were managing yourself - step out of your wishy-washy artist self and become a manager. Establish a minimum dollar amount for differernt types of work and stick to it. It doesn't have to be high, but it does need to be higher than $1/hour, which is more than you are getting on this job.

It is the price of an education - which is fine, AS LONG AS YOU LEARN! Finish the gig, and don't let it happen again. You could have used all this time self promoting and landing a bigger/real gig.

Do those calculations BEFORE you agree on a rate.

Anyway, enjoy it, finish it, get on with your life.

Hei

[AndrewAnimation.com]

thanks for your reply!

yup, the book will be done today, actually! after more than a month...hahaha. and you're totally right. now i just plain don't even accept huge-commitment projects anymore, cuz i'm only IN this field to produce a story i've worked on for more than a decade.. why would i spend a lotta time on someone ELSE's story when i could be working on my own

afterall...i dont need MONEY! ahh, the joy of being supported by your parents ^_^