Its Master Copy Time AGAIN!!! check these paintings out!

[Jason Manley]

A NOTE BEFORE YOU READ THIS...the links below will work...click on them and it will open a bad link...remove the http//: from the address bar so it only says the exact www.address

j


hey peeps...

its time to study from the masters again...every one of us got a lot out of it the last time around.

Ive put together some images for you all to choose from.

if you have another painting in mind...feel free.


these are tough ones! Can you make an EXACT copy of a master work???

Every mark...every edge...every color...study it...copy it...make it exact.

lets see em!

contestants in this excersize will get a great prize!!

he or she will become better at painting!


jason

here they are...

Emile Friant

[url]www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/F/Friant_Emile/Friant_La_Toussaint.jpg

www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/F/Friant_Emile/large/Friant_Emile_L-Expiation.jpg

walter langley

www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/l/Langley_Walter/large/Langley_Walter_The_Breadwinners.jpg

simon hollosy

www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/h/Hollosy_Simon/Hollosy_Simon_Tengerihantas.jpg

the light in that one above blows my mind...

charles sprage pierce

www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/P/Pearce_Charles_Sprague/Pearce_C_S_Sainte_Genevieve.jpg

walter macewan

www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/m/MacEwen_Walter/MacEwen_Walter_Returning_from_Work.jpg

william leibl

www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/l/Leibl_William/Leibl_Wilhelm_Dorfpolitiker.jpg

hi res sargent images

www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/s/SARGENT_John_Singer/Sargent_Venetian_Interior.jpg

www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/s/SARGENT_John_Singer/Sargent_Mrs_Hugh_Hammersley.jpg

www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/s/SARGENT_John_Singer/Sargent_View_of_Capri.jpg

www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/s/SARGENT_John_Singer/Sargent_Street_in_Venice.jpg

www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/s/SARGENT_John_Singer/Sargent_Jean_Joseph_Marie_Carries.jpg

www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/s/SARGENT_John_Singer/Sargent_Vernon_Lee.jpg

[Grooveholmes]

Hey people, the links work. You just have to add the 'www.' in front of 'artrenewal'

[Jaku]

Any tip on how to start?
My eyes can´t just stop blinking looking here and there and my mind is going to blow trying to think how that level of reality can be placed on a canvas...

I´m blocked, i need to clean my mind... please heeeeeeeeelp!

[MindCandyMan]

I love that Venice Street Painting by Sargent...I am gonna do that one.

[Jason Manley]

it looks as if they changed the links on those images...i put in the www. and they dont work.

I will dig them up this evening and get them back up

they are still on artrenewal...its just they changed the path.


for now..find one on your own if you want to get started


j

[Grooveholmes]

There are a few Wyeth pieces I might try to emulate.:D

[Fozzybar]

You just have to erase the http:// in the adress-bar...don't know why, but i tried and it works...

[J Bradford]

Here is one I've been working on; Original by Sargent

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jbradford49/Sargent_Lord_Ribblesdale_St.jpg

And the reference;
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jbradford49/Sargent_Lord_Ribblesdale.jpg

*Edit -Added reference in the thread

[Jason Manley]

nicely done so far.,..keep it up...

in the future...please post both the painting and the copy in the same thread for comparison.


one thing with sargent that i want you to pay attention to...two things actually....is to TEXTURE and to EDGES.

by edges I speak of edges of brushstrokes...edges of forms...edges of color pieces...edges of broken texture...etcl...


j

[J Bradford]

Thanks for the feedback - i'll be going back to work on it soon. :)

[MindCandyMan]

For color pieces...would you suggest color sampling from them jason or trying to decipher the color on your own?...just wondering what I would learn more doing.

[Jason Manley]

NO COLOR SAMPLING

NO VALUE SAMPLING

NO TRACING

NO PASTING

JUST LOOK and PAINT!!



NO COLOR SAMPLING

NO VALUE SAMPLING

NO TRACING

NO PASTING

JUST LOOK and PAINT!!



NO COLOR SAMPLING

NO VALUE SAMPLING

NO TRACING

NO PASTING

JUST LOOK and PAINT!!



NO COLOR SAMPLING

NO VALUE SAMPLING

NO TRACING

NO PASTING

JUST LOOK and PAINT!!



NO COLOR SAMPLING

NO VALUE SAMPLING

NO TRACING

NO PASTING

JUST LOOK and PAINT!!



NO COLOR SAMPLING

NO VALUE SAMPLING

NO TRACING

NO PASTING

JUST LOOK and PAINT!!



NO COLOR SAMPLING

NO VALUE SAMPLING

NO TRACING

NO PASTING

JUST LOOK and PAINT!!



NO COLOR SAMPLING

NO VALUE SAMPLING

NO TRACING

NO PASTING

JUST LOOK and PAINT!!



NO COLOR SAMPLING

NO VALUE SAMPLING

NO TRACING

NO PASTING

JUST LOOK and PAINT!!





j

[MindCandyMan]

Ok so I'm thinking no color sampling...that would probably be a bad idea right? ;) Thanks hehehe...

[kaini]

by edges I speak of edges of brushstrokes...edges of forms...edges of color pieces...edges of broken texture...etcl...

hmm that sounds interesting. Jason, could you explain it a little further ?

When I copy old masters I especially try to understand what they painted first (shadow or mid-tones etc), where and why they exaggerated or made up contrasts. How they use brushwork to describe form. etc.
What do you consider as important when copying old masters ?

[Blackhawk]

Master copy I've been working on by Sargent. I did this one digitally, after this I'm doing them in oils...

Original
http://members.cox.net/spagina/life/orig.jpg

Mine
http://members.cox.net/spagina/life/mine.jpg

I really goofed the colors.

[MindCandyMan]

Still workin on it

http://mindcandyman.netfirms.com/daily uploads/Sargent Streets of Venice copy step 3.jpg

http://mindcandyman.netfirms.com/daily%20uploads/Sargent_Street_in_Venice2.jpg

I'm having a lot of trouble obtaining the textures on this one...if anyone could give some advice it would be appreciated thanks.

[Jason Manley]

chalk tool...square chalk and paper textures

you can go outside with a digicam and take black and white photos...tile them at 1024x1024 and you can put them in as paper textures of your own...you will have to research on the painter manual to figure it out...but it is worth it...take pics of paint chipping...blacktop...dirt....bark...or anything else with cool textures.

you can use the paper mover (i think that is whta it is called) to install them into painter.

that will help...and will save you lots.


j

[MindCandyMan]

Great that's awesome Jason...that's exactly what I need thanks. I haven't messed much with the papers...I really should. I just got the painter 7 wow book too...maybe something is in there I could look up. Thanks again...I will update my progress soon. I have to say that I am learning TONS from doing this and I am gaining more and more respect for Sargent...I am starting to see all the subtleties in his work. Thanks for spurring us to do this...it's great.

[Anthony]

Mm hmm, if the masters weren't so damn good it'd be easier to copy them.

http://www.antsin3d.com/portfo/Feb2k3/sargentcopysm.jpg
http://www.antsin3d.com/portfo/Feb2k3/Sargent_View_of_Capri.jpg

[MindCandyMan]

I am having an awful time with the woman's face...the coloring and the shape of her face...it's really rough...any help would be appreciated. If I clean her up and do a few more touch ups I might be "finished"

http://www.mindcandyfilms.com/jons_uploads/sargent_streets_in_venice_step_8.jpg


http://www.mindcandyfilms.com/jons_uploads/sargent_street_in_venice_original.jpg

[Jason Manley]

you are dealing with the most basic issue in drawing. what you just learned by doing this mastercopy mindcandy is that your drawing is not as accurate as you might have thought.

widths and heights are off...the feel is there...some of the textural qualities...but you are NOT really looking.

look at the width of the scarf below the womans hand....look at the width in yours...look at the width of his.

this same problem of widths and measuring is echoed through the entire image.

LOOK CLOSER


LOOK MORE


MORE COMPARING


while all the copies here are wonderful attempts. Not one is a success in the fullest sense. All are inaccurate. If you were just doing a quick study then that is fine...the goal of this excersize is the perfection of the study.

DO NOT GIVE UP ON THEM...please.

if you master your basics while doing this kind of thing then your basics will be stronger in the rest of your work FROM NOW ON!!

I hope that you all are learning about your skills when doing this kind of thing. I think that perhaps you have a greater respect for the masters too. After all...they had to do the same thing you are doing but with their own masters and teachers works.

keep it up.

you are following the footsteps of your masters greatness.


jason

[MindCandyMan]

Hey Jason...you are right on the money about all those problems with mine...man...I saw a couple but now I am noticing a lot more sheesh. I have a quick question...I find that it is really hard for me to judge, accurately, the length width of whatever I am painting or drawing unless I am drawing it the same size. Like for this painting I can see the problems if I make both paintings the same size and put them next to each other while I am painting but I can't see the problems if they are say...above and below one another. How can I measure to make sure it is completely accurate when i am doing something like this. Consequently...I find I have this same problem in figure drawing class...so this will help me in that area too. I will keep working on it.

[Jason Manley]

you have to double check everything as you go along....call it a phase of your painting...just stop and go around and double check and fix everything.

you can apply that to all your work from life as well.

j

[MindCandyMan]

Shoudl I paint with the original right next to my copy so I can see the height/width difference?...or should I try to eyeball it and see how close I come and then adjust accordingly? Just wondering what would train my eye better...seeing the correct thing right away or trying to judge it myself. Thanks for your help man...I'm not giving up on this no way...as soon as I perfect this one I am moving on to another that's for sure.

[MindCandyMan]

I just wanna let everyone know that I am still working on my sargent piece. I haven't given up or forgotten it. Soon I will be able to post my next attempt.

[miasmak]

hang in there MCM. you are not on your own. I have a Rembrandt copy up my sleeve, it is just not quite ready for unveiling yet (mumbles something about getting the expression on the face right and the colours etc)

[jester]

I want to prepare for the second Middle Class assignement and have some questions before I start - hopefully not stupid ones...

When I scan a master painting, which size is the minimum and at which dpi setting should I scan it?

I want to work with Painter 6. What canvas size size should I choose. I usually find myself choosing too high resolutions and Painter just giving up, but I have no idea of which resolution I'll need to get all the details right.

Those of you who are already working on one - any hints, tips, suggestions?

Thanks a lot!

Jester

[miasmak]

Jester mine is about 1200x1500 pixels. Probably too small, but I am using Painter 7 and I may have a layer or two. I have 256M ram. I am using an image from the 'Net and not a scan. If it's not a library book, you could work directly from the book for an extra challenge :)

[MindCandyMan]

Hey jester,
One thing you have to realize is that these paintings in real life are actually quite large. That's how they were able to get in there and do the details. So when you are painting in painter I would go for the highest possible canvas resolution you can get. Work from the book if you want or from a scan...working from the book will enable you to see the accurate colors whereas a scan will dull them. Check to see if there is a high rez version of the painting on artrenewal.org ...I am working from a high rez of sargent and I can zoom in and see all his brush strokes...it's great. What I did with my sargent piece was download the high rez picture from art renewal and then I added a third onto that size in the same aspect ratio when I opened my canvas. My canvas is around 2500 - 3200 or something like that...I can't remember...above 2000 either way though...you have to be able to zoom in and capture those details. Hope that helps.