The cost of art

[Wafflehouseninja]

I have recently come to the conclusion that if you are not already a professional artist that becoming one is next to impossible due to the insane cost of supplies and equipment. I am talking specifically of computer art. Photoshop 7 costs: $649. Corel Painter8 costs: $149. A Wacom Intuos2 (9x12) costs 469.99. Not including a scanner and the computer its self this puts the cost at: $1267+. While there are lower priced tablets I know from experience that the quality is not there compared to Wacom (my Aiptek hyper pen 12000u died on me for a seconded time). I have no real way to pay for all this stuff.

To become talented enough to get paid at a level to afford these things you would need much practice with them but until you can afford them you don’t have them to practice. See the problem? I was just wondering if any one is in the same boat and if any one knows a way to solve this BIG problem.

[nil]

you can get all this stuff (including software) at a considerable discount if you're willing to buy second hand. it's not like you need to have the lateset version of the software to work with. besides, you can always pirate it :pirate:

[H.Evans]

check out the painter site and look for the bundles, they bundle painter with a 12X9 wacom intuos 2 for $600, that should save you some $$.

[hito]

To become talented enough to get paid at a level to afford these things you would need much practice with them but until you can afford them you don’t have them to practice. See the problem?

that's total bullocks. You don't need the latest and the greatest equipment to practice.

A box of #2 pencil and some a pack of copy paper will run you less than $10. Practice till you run through the 500 sheets, you'll have improved by a great deal.

before you say "you can't do art with just a pencil"...
http://www.forumgallery.com/b_bellow.htm

student pricing will save you more than 50% on all the software. an econobox at your local compusa will be more than enough to do photoshop and painter work. a scanner can be had for as little as $50

[Wafflehouseninja]

even 600 bucks is a bit much. I work at a craft/art store parttime and go to school fulltime. Its going to take me forever to save that kined of cash unless I sell my body or breaking into homes to steal there TV and loos cash .

[Wafflehouseninja]

that's total bullocks. You don't need the latest and the greatest equipment to practice.

A box of #2 pencil and some a pack of copy paper will run you less than $10. Practice till you run through the 500 sheets, you'll have improved by a great deal.

before you say "you can't do art with just a pencil"...
http://www.forumgallery.com/b_bellow.htm

student pricing will save you more than 50% on all the software. an econobox at your local compusa will be more than enough to do photoshop and painter work. a scanner can be had for as little as $50

Im talking specifically of computer art even more specifically digital painting. By the way I kill sketch books every month or so.

[wassermelone]

Then there are the people who just download the programs and so buying the tablet ain't that bad.

Sadly some of them probably don't buy the programs once they have a income supporting it.

-toasty

[the_blur]

even 600 bucks is a bit much. I work at a craft/art store parttime and go to school fulltime. Its going to take me forever to save that kined of cash unless I sell my body or breaking into homes to steal there TV and loos cash .

Hehe, so break into a place where you know the guy already has a nice mac and a tablet =P

Seriously, just practice until you get noticed by the game/movie industry and when you're raking in the moulah, you won't mind paying 2500$ for painting software...

Needless to say, I did not mean steal the software, that would be like ripping off artwork. Don't do it. The regulars here frown severely on intellectual property theft / fair use. (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27896) >:D

You may have a hard time learning UV mapping and 3d modeling with just:
A box of #2 pencil and some a pack of copy paper will run you less than $10. Practice till you run through the 500 sheets, you'll have improved by a great deal.
You may want to add a sharpie or 2 =)

[nova]

if you're a student, there are learning versions of photoshop, illustrator and maya for you. you don't need painter right away. and to get what painter has, you can buy yourself some cheap student-grade paints and materials that work fine. if you're not picky you can use a small tablet. i started with a 150 dollar one that wasn't even wacom and then upgraded. used ones are fine too.

when you're professional and work inhouse, usually you don't personally have to pay for the software. if you're freelance, that's another matter but if you have friends that can help you when you're starting out, you'll be set until you get some gigs and make some dough :)

cmon.

[Wafflehouseninja]

You think any one would give me $ if I stand on the corner with a sign the reads : "Will Work for Wacom"

[jetpack42]

Needless to say, I did not mean steal the software, that would be like ripping off artwork. Don't do it. The regulars here frown severely on intellectual property theft / fair use. (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27896) >:D


:nohope:



if you're just learning, find it for free...or get the student/trial versions. a used tablet should run you under 300, maybe under 200.

better to learn to paint for real first though, then the other way around. why not get some paints? that'll run you 20 bucks. (get some canvas pads, black and white oils, and a brush). 10 bucks says you learn more for your money with that then with a 500 dollar tablet.

[the_blur]

You think any one would give me $ if I stand on the corner with a sign the reads : "Will Work for Wacom"
lol, better watch it, wacom could be hiring and you would end up working at wacom in product design and engineering, money's good, but that wouldn't be where you want to end up =)

[Wafflehouseninja]

But if they hired me id get the hook up on the tablets! :P

[mos667]

Hate to plug websites but this is great for buying software.

CreationEngine.com (http://www.creationengine.com/)

[Helzer]

If you serious about being an artist, you have no choice. It's expensive, sure, but not impossible. Really, what's the alternative?

I freelance from my house full-time and I try to put money aside to buy new software/hardware; however, I constantly find myself dipping in the stash to pay bills. At any rate, I still continue to save bit by bit.

I have friends that are in other lines of work and it's not cheap for them either, in fact more so. Case in point, a friend of mine is a dentist, one day he told me how much he made. I felt like somewhat of a loser, but then he started deducted his expenses, overhead, etc., and then I thought 'Man, that's depressing, you have to pay a thousand here, a thousand there, here, there, here, there, everywhere'.

I have another friend who is a carpet layer, he makes decent bank, but after he told me his expenses and overhead, I thought ' Gee, I don't have it so bad.' I don't have to worry about buying a new vehicle every year because of intense traveling, nor do I have to buy the expensive tools, licenses, rent or pay for help or worry about my knees going bad before turning 35.

So, bottomline, it's gonna cost you something no matter what you choose in life. Better make it worth your wile.

[Mike Frank]

You could probably learn how to digitally paint pretty well with free applications like OpenCanvas or GIMP for linux or I'm sure there are tons of free paint apps I dont know about. Wacom Graphire's are relatively cheap, I've never used any of their higher end stuff, but it is at least pressure sensitive and beats the hell out of mouse clicking.

Nothing really seems to be more important to people (at least it seems so) than solid traditional ability. Sure there are some things that photoshop and painter offer that make life easier for you. But these are things you can learn relatively quickly compared to the amount of time one will spend learning how to make great artwork in general. All of these programs are just tools, just like a pencil, pen, brush, etc. If you are already have a solid grasp on working traditionally than I imagine that transitioning to Photoshop or Painter or whatever program thats out there will not be that difficult for you.

[bat]

Im talking specifically of computer art even more specifically digital painting. By the way I kill sketch books every month or so.


If you kill sketchbooks within a month, do the following:

1) Spray your work with fixative.

2) Frame your sketched/drawn work.

3) Find a suitable gallery.

4) After paying ridiculous commissions (around 30%-40%), take your cut (mindful of taxes) to purchase your digital gear.


If you cannot do this, you don't need digital equipment because the real skills and abilities can be shown with a #2 pencil on typing paper. Galleries are easy to find if you are looking. Shop around, find a niche, sell your traditional media work and upgrade.

bat

[Dutch Badass]

Dude...
I`m 17 now
I work since I was 13...not really hard work
Then when I turned 14 I got another job...I still work there..It`s hard but pays well....

The money doesn`t grow on trees you need to work for it...

I always get pretty mad when people say I can`t afford this I can`t afford that....

Just work for your money....It`s not so hard to save up 1200 bucks....or euro`s like here in holland..

and offcourse like others said
You don`t need everything brand new or all new versions..

[Blind]

I have recently come to the conclusion that if you are not already a professional artist that becoming one is next to impossible due to the insane cost of supplies and equipment. I am talking specifically of computer art. Photoshop 7 costs: $649. Corel Painter8 costs: $149. A Wacom Intuos2 (9x12) costs 469.99. Not including a scanner and the computer its self this puts the cost at: $1267+.<snip>Ok... $1267 any kid with half a brain can make that money in 6 to 8 weeks earning minimum wage. 6 to 8 weeks... that's not such a huge investment to get yourself the supplies you'd need, is it? And, taken care of, those things will last you years. You just need a place to plug it in.

My little brother (he's 16) just spent the entire summer working his ass off in the sun at the San Diego Wild Animal Park. He saved every penny he earned and probably has twice that amount just waiting for him to spend on something. Just get up and do it! Before you know it you'll be painting away!

[Tiina]

The great thing about digital media is you don't run out of it like traditional paints or pencils. And you really don't need to update every time something new comes out. You don't even have to start with new stuff. (I know this was covered, I just felt a need to repeat *squak*) I used photoshop4 FOREVER. It came with the computer so I desided to see what it could do. All the new versions started appearing on the shelves and I just ignored 'em and kept learning how to manipulate my own. I used a mouse. I didn't even know what a tablet was till I got one as a gift. I have P.S.7 now but I still go back to 4 sometimes as a force of habit. And it's still a good program.

See if you can't find someone at your school or work who owns a computer like yours. I'm sure you could find a least one person with a version of paintshop pro or photoshop that'd let you load it onto your computer. Maybe an older version their not using anymore. That's how I get my programs. ;)

Best of luck to ya!

~Tiina
www.DragondustStudios.com

[Gr8t100]

Here's a tip, make a lot of friends, you'll know why when they are in digital art also.

[the_blur]

Here's a tip, make a lot of friends, you'll know why when they are in digital art also.
lol tsk tsk

[GriNGo]

first of all... I wish wacom's could be pirated. Then I would be complete :tihi:

next, Gr8t100 idea is pretty kick ass, at least concerning the digital (computer) media. In my example, i have a friend who has everything I could ever need, like a scanner, a digital camera, and a mac g5. Now he's going to buy one of the pretty costly wacom's, so I'll just ask him to lend it to me... at least until I get one myself. He also has a kick ass cable modem connection.

another good idea, is wait for Christmas and ask your parents (if you are still under their "control" and if you are catholic) to give you some stuff. Work in your local pizza/burguer restaurant.... there are many ways in yould finance your hobbies :)

later,
GriNGoLoCo

[kmscottmoore]

Nil,

I really hope you were joking. Pirating software is stealing, plain and simple.
Stealing of artwork is a big problem for professional artists, and you shouldn't contribute to the destruction of an industry by stealing the tools that are used to make art.

Wafflehouse,

I feel your pain, but all I can say is: Where there's a will, there's a way.
When I was starting out, I took a crappy job at a place that would let me stay after hours and use the computers, provided I didn't break anything. After I became relatively proficient (on Photoshop 2.0 no less!!) I maxed out my credit cards and bought my own set-up. Even the crappy Dell computers that you can buy for $500 today, are WAAYYY more powerful than what I started on. I added 16 MB of RAM to my first Mac, and it cost me $1100. That's right, I said MB!!

If you're in school, they no doubt have a computer lab. USE IT!! The only computers when I was in school were Apple IIe. Take advantage of what you have available to you. Become a computer lab rat.

Not to mention, you can get P.S. elements for $99. The GIMP is free. An entry level Wacom Graphire can be had for $99 as well. (They also sell refurbished ones.)

Art supplies have never been cheap. Take a look at setting up an airbrush studio. A Compressor, good filter system, stencil burner, projector, mask, two good brushes, and a starter set of paint and illustration board is going to cost more than $1300.

Boy, did I just turn into an old grouch or what?? :x

[SirJohn]

My little brother (he's 16) just spent the entire summer working his ass off in the sun at the San Diego Wild Animal Park. He saved every penny he earned and probably has twice that amount just waiting for him to spend on something. Just get up and do it! Before you know it you'll be painting away!

I'll bet your little brother didn't have to worry about taking out rent from the money he earned did he? How bout groceries, electricity, water, and phone bills? Was he paying for his own health insurance while he worked at the Wild animal park? How bout car insurance? I heard that they don't just give that stuff away. You should keep these things in consideration before you jump up and tell people to 'just get up and do it'. Not everybody has the same options that your little brother had.

-SJ

[bat]

Art supplies have never been cheap. Take a look at setting up an airbrush studio. A Compressor, good filter system, stencil burner, projector, mask, two good brushes, and a starter set of paint and illustration board is going to cost more than $1300.

Boy, did I just turn into an old grouch or what?? :x

The airbrush example is very similar. I networked and a friend gave me a 3M mask and a few dozen filters (I did do a painting on a mirror for his home bar, so maybe it was a fair trade), I use frisket (not cheap) or contact paper, no stencils and damn, it still is expensive. I just upgraded my compressor and that set me back about a painting. I did find airbrushes on ebay (estate sales are awesome on ebay as many sellers have no idea what they are selling), but I did buy a couple brand new as well. If you want the gear, you will be able to get it, it just takes the will (as previously posted).

[ethan karnopp]

Well, first I would like to say I do not intend to demean any software or hardware company in this post.

Here is the truth. There are at least 500 accessible non-trojan fast downloading sites with cracks and serials on them on the internet. These are the upcoming artists haven. When you finish something with a pirated version of photoshop it does not stamp it and say PIRATE. No one knows you have a pirated version. But if you frequent the program and use it for profit, you have to show your respect because anything different is selfish and bullshit. The programmers at adobe work hard and deserve theirs. But I don't think and instant 700 USD down should be payed for something you aren't even good at or making profit. In a nutshell I say pirate away but if you make a profit from it you should pay for it. The prices are ridiculously high and anyone can understand that. As far as hardware, just buy it, it really isnt that expensive. My custom PC cost 700 dollars with top of the line everything, if you want the specs I will prove it but its 6:30 am and im not willing to put them out right now. A wacom graphire 3 6x8 costs 100 USD and a canoscan lide is the same price. 900 dollars for EVERYTHING you need.

[The Iconoclast]

Woohoo! Bitch bitch bitch!

First off, pirated software sucks. Period. If you look hard enough, you can find an academic version of Painter 8 for 80 bucks...
Second, it's absolutely true that ANY career takes a bit of an investment.

But here's the main point... you don't NEED most of that stuff. Who needs the latest version and the largest tablet? Sure, it would be NICE to have exactly what the guys at the big companies are using, but if it's going to dig so deep into your wallet that you're going to start making message board topics complaining, then ACCEPT that it's not possible and practice with traditional mediums. I view digital medium as a long term investment. If you're spitting out one finished piece every 2 months, screw digital and stick with good old traditional mediums.

You just have to understand that, if you're good and you work hard at what you do, you will get discovered regardless of your wacom size or version number.

Heh, that last bit sounded funny.

[bizarre]

the friends thing is very very true.

oh, any my first tablet was a jamstudio jampad. a sixty dollar tablet. awesome.

work your way up to it, too. you won't enjoy all your new equipment until you can appreciate what you were lacking before. do without as to do more with. um. yeah.

[Blind]

I'll bet your little brother didn't have to worry about taking out rent from the money he earned did he?Bullshit, John. I stand by what I said. The point was that it can be done. You know? As in trying to be encouraging? I was trying to put that mountainous $1200 into a different light so it would seem more attainable. Of course most 16 year old kids don't have to worry about things like you mentioned. I don't know Waffle's situation, nor did he offer it. Would you rather I tell some kid who's trying to get ahead that he shouldn't bother? "$1200 is beyond your reach, give up now." I don't think so. Everyone deals with life's necessities, but that's no reason not to try for something.

[SirJohn]

Perhaps it was your wording that struck me the wrong way. I understand the desire to be encouraging and I applaud the fact that you would attempt to be so. If you were to look at the context of your wording and apply it to working class folks you may see what I mean... and trust me, I am not trying to pick fights... just pointing something important out. You placed the right wording on your reply when you said 'mountainous' when referring to the 1200 bucks, and the fact that hard work could eventually make it happen. Me, I do heavy labor in a factory six days a week... I bust my ass daily just like your bro did over the summer (only I have been doing it for the last 20 years). But I also have to pay the bills, raise a kid alone, etc. etc. Busting my ass daily isn't making it any easier to shell out money I don't have. But when something is important enough, I try to do my best to attain it. At no point would I discourage somebody from attaining their goals, and to imply that is what I was getting at is like trying to put words into my mouth. Perhaps you understand why your previous post rubbed me a bit wrong? I hope so... becuase then we can simply leave it at that. Like I said before, I didn't come here to pick fights, who has time for that shit? :\

-SJ

[AnarchyAo2]

If I were you, I'd sell something. Most people have crap sitting around their room that they don't use...I sell all of that crap. Got a bike you don't use that often? Ebay it. Have old clothes you don't wear? Sell them. Hell, sell stuff you do use but isn't necessary. I sold my clothes drawer for 75 dollars so I could buy a new PC game. I now use 3 clothes baskets that I put my clothes into. It looks stupid, but its just as effective and I enjoyed the game more then some stupid wooden chest.

Also, if you have a friend that is into digital art, ask him to split the costs of a wacom tablet and you 2 share it.

Also, when college kids leave campus for summer...go dumpster hopping near the college campus. Stupid rich kids throw away PC's, TV's, and other stuff that is in good condition. If you find anything valueable, sell it/keep it.

Also, you can sell your non digital art. Maybe you could do portraits along the street for money. You'll gain practice and cash. Needless to say, you need both of those.

[Blind]

Perhaps it was your wording that struck me the wrong way.I re-read my original post, and I do see your point. I wasn't trying to rub anyone wrong, honestly... but I can see how it might be taken that way. Sorry! That was not my intent... it was to motivate, not condescend. And I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you would try to discourage in anyway. I guess I was just being flippant. No offense intended.

BTW, I think it's admirable that you work so hard and still try to attain your personal goals. And raising a child alone? I can't even fathom that. I have two children (21 mos. & 8 weeks old), and I can't imagine I'd be very successful without the teamwork my wife and I put into them. They'd take over! :O

[Wafflehouseninja]

I do have some old comics and some old magic cards (yes im a neard :nerd: ) THen there is always my kidneys only need one of them. I hear you can get like 20k in south amarica for one.but seriously ill sell some crap and see if that will do...but my bike got stolen :\

[SirJohn]

It's all good Blind... no hard feelings eh?

Hey waffle.... do you have a geetar? Maybe you could spend a few afternoons jamming with your guitar case open on the sidewalk. Of course, this may not be a very lucrative endeavor if you are not any good at strumming, but at least you can work on your tan! :}

-SJ

[Wafflehouseninja]

nope but i have a Harmonica. ill sing a little blues number call " I got the no wacom having, not enugh $ got ,to sella kidnie on the black market blues" 8)

[SirJohn]

I hate to say it my friend, but I think I will be driving down the cost of the kidney market pretty soon.... time to buy SCHOOL CLOTHES for the kiddo. :x

I have a geetar, but quit playing years ago so the sidewalk will be no help at all... except for maybe a pity quarter or two. :dur:

-SJ ((preparing to part with a beloved kidney))

[one2hit]

PS is free ;) and I've never had a problem with my 4x6 wacom tablet... a little small but for $100 bucks new it gets the job done. Anyway stop complaining! All you need is a pencil and a few sketchpads, if you can't work with that then you can't work digitally.

[JoshuaTheJames]

I have recently come to the conclusion that if you are not already a professional artist that becoming one is next to impossible due to the insane cost of supplies and equipment. I am talking specifically of computer art. Photoshop 7 costs: $649. Corel Painter8 costs: $149. A Wacom Intuos2 (9x12) costs 469.99. Not including a scanner and the computer its self this puts the cost at: $1267+. While there are lower priced tablets I know from experience that the quality is not there compared to Wacom (my Aiptek hyper pen 12000u died on me for a seconded time). I have no real way to pay for all this stuff.

To become talented enough to get paid at a level to afford these things you would need much practice with them but until you can afford them you don’t have them to practice. See the problem? I was just wondering if any one is in the same boat and if any one knows a way to solve this BIG problem.

I feel you bro. I had nnoo way of buying these things until I was almost out of art college, even then I still had to borrow 300 bucks to get it all. Then wait months to be able to afford a wacom.

All that aside what really matters is a sketchbook and a pencil. Ten bucks at the most. :rendered:

-Joshua

[valdo650]

I agree with the topic creator...the start up costs for those starting out are insane...especially if your NOT a student.

Fortunately, I still qualify for a student discount, but even so, to get everything set-up to create art digitally is going to cost me close to $2,000! I need a new computer because I have a 6 year old computer that is on the virge of death so that is about half the expense right there. Then there is Adobe CS, Painter, and a WaCom tablet.

Even Adobe CS 3 in student version is well over $300. :$

[Mirana]

Get a job, save--and don't bump posts from 3 yrs ago.

[Qitsune]

You should be able to get a used 4X5 graphire for less than 60$, a crt screen for the same price.. my bf got a dual core computer with 1gb of ram for 540$ a month ago with mouse keyboard and speakers, windows xp AND vista.

[mwillustration]

you have a job, then start saving.
i know you're in school too, but if you can, work a second job whenever possible.
with the educational discounts, the bundles that come with a wacom, the computer it sounds like you already have, you should be set.
if you don't have a computer, use the ones at school whenever you can.
when i was in school we could use the comp labs until midnight most days except sunday.
if you think you can't save, try not buying that cup of coffee every morning for a month or so and set all that aside. do the same with pizza or goin out for lunch. it adds up.
you need to make short term sacrifices for the things you want.

plus, once you have the equipment, your first freelance gig will most likely pay for it all.
check with your school, i'm sure they have people calling there looking for people still in school to do work for them.
they may not be glamorous gigs, but they pay- not much, but it's good experience and you have some extra cash from your art.
just make sure you don't charge or take too little for freelance jobs.
you could get screwed and mess up the market for alot of others in the process.

make it happen and update us when you have.
:)

[AmishCommy]

3) Find a suitable gallery.

4) After paying ridiculous commissions (around 30%-40%), take your cut (mindful of taxes) to purchase your digital gear.wait, you think 30%-40% is ridiculous? Can you give me the names of said galleries? Most galleries take 50%-60% (very rarely as low as 40%) And in reality it's not as ridiculous as it seems.

[otis]

:nohope: Your main problem is your attitude. As long as you keep singing "poor is me" song, and make excuses for everything, you will go nowhere. $1200 is not much money. As long as you keep convincing yourself it is, and your life is so rough..don't expect anything to change.

I'm not even going to waste my time suggesting anything to you becuase many people here already have. You just have to make it work.

[Mirana]

Guys: THREAD IS THREE YEARS OLD.

[Qitsune]

I was answering to Valdo who posted today.

[Ian Mack]

Mirana: the bible is 2000 years old. So what if a thread is 3 years old?

I thought it a neat twist from the subject.....what is the cost of art? Personally, I think the physical cost is about 10 dollars for pencils and paper but the pther cost is the sheer time that needs to be put into it.

[Qitsune]

Some people seem to say they wouldn't own a screen and a computer if they didn't do digital art. Yet they are on CA complaining that they don't have money to buy a computer?

[Seedling]

You have to make an investment to start a business. End of story.

[Yiako]

You may have a hard time learning UV mapping and 3d modeling with just:

You may want to add a sharpie or 2 =)


Download Blender from www.blender.org. It's a powerful 3D software. You can learn UV mapping, modelling, animation, texturing... whatever.
And it's free.

[FlipMcgee]

...if any one knows a way to solve this BIG problem.


From Destroy All Humans concept artist Milenko Tunjic's blog (http://www.ferdinandkreozot.blogspot.com/) (OT, Recent blog entries: Hilarious Popeye re-designs. NSFW but great stuff.).

.

[Icon]

;p hey man, just be thankful this isn't the car bussiness! 600$ is chump change over there...f1 races are worth millions and millions...hell even if it was a hobby, cars upgrade still cost thousands.. so in that perspective a couple hundreds isn't that bad.. but I hear ya.. money doesn't come easy ;p