Good Priming/ground for water-soluble oils?

[Main Loop]

The acrylic priming on standard canvases doesnt seem to take to it too well, neither does gesso.. i figure the oil-based priming would be even worse.. is there an alternative priming i should try that might work better?

[MadSamoan]

What do you mean by 'doesn't take too well'?

[Main Loop]

it doesnt seem to flow on it.. if you want to use the pure paint, itll be tacky, like half-dried gouache.. it doesnt feel like traditional oil paint.. but i foudn a way around it.. i take water mixed with artisan painting medium and dilute it, then coat the surface thinly.. feels like butter

[MadSamoan]

Ah. Yea, I don't think it's the painting ground, but the paint itself. Water soluble oil paints are known for being very tacky. Interesting that you could use medium in it with water, since most mediums have some kind of oil or petroleum distillate in them. What exactly is in artisan medium?

[Elwell]

Why are you using toy paint? :P

[Main Loop]

MadSamoan- I wish i knew.. i dont use too much water, or else its the same as with too much in the paint: a bad substitute for watercolor.. i use just enough to get a thin layer

Elwell: www.jwstudio.net Tell him he's using "toy paint"

[Big-Dave]

You can get medium specifically for the artisan paints. As far as I know the oil in it has been altered in the same way as in the paints, allowing it to mix

Main Loop: Is it single primed or double primed canvases you're using? If it's single primed, that might be your problem. Simgle primed absorbs fluids *very* easily.

As for watering it down a lot, I know a lot of artists do an underpainting in very thinned down oil paints. It lets them push the paint around with a cloth as if it were charcoal and it also dries much faster, meaning you can paint over it sooner (this was actually the way I was shown, work from thin to thick, dark to light) It acually works quite well, and it doesn't act much like watercolour because you can actually blend the colours together

Anyway, hope that helps :)

[mentler]

Oil ground would have been my choice - I had a supply of toy paint that worked well for a couple of years when i had a studio where fumes were a problem. They are not really as good as real oils ~ the feel is different ~ of course the feel of oils is different from manufacturer to manufacturer as well.

I mixed them off with other oils with no problem even though the makers say it could cause problem. So far I have had no problems ~ using full bore oils and walnut oil now and love it. You cannot beat a lead white oil ground as far as I am concerned. However if you triple prime with gesso and then get in quick with some light transparent oil washes it feels pretty much the same after a couple of thin wash layers have dried.
Come see me. It will be worth a visit. Check out my threads.

[Main Loop]

Big Dave - Yeah im using Artisan paint right now. Its too stiff in my opinion. I think Im going to try the Holbein brand. I gotta check the canvas, i want to see if its primed single or double. I forget. That method you describe is what i do for traditional oil, if im not painting in alla prima. Doesnt work too well with the alkyd medium i tried. the paint gets even stickier! The slower drying stuff is the best one ive tried for this. Thanks for all the tips..

Mentler - So you say the oil priming is actually better? how come? it seems contradictory.. I figure the water wont bond with the priming or something.
Well, if we start talking about traditional oils, then its getting away from the point of the thread. I wanted to start using walnut oil for my traditional paints, but i never see it around here. Thanks

[mentler]

You are not supposed to mix very much water with the artisan type products. They are made out of a manufactured oil product much like synthetic motor oil. If don't use hardly any water ~ none is best!!!!
You work entirely with mediums. You clean your brushes with water. The same is true with tradition oils the less solvent the better!!! The Old Masters did not use turps or mineral spirits.

[Main Loop]

You are not supposed to mix very much water with the artisan type products. They are made out of a manufactured oil product much like synthetic motor oil. If don't use hardly any water ~ none is best!!!!
You work entirely with mediums. You clean your brushes with water. The same is true with tradition oils the less solvent the better!!! The Old Masters did not use turps or mineral spirits.


way ahead of ya there man. what water soluble oils are your favorite?