Setting up a plan?

[SilentFire]

Ah yes so I'm back again but this time with a rather different question. I want to become a really good artist and am willing to do whatever it takes to become one. So I have been drawing rather frequently since my last post but not for very long periods of time (surprisingly my summer is more busy than my school years are yes I know its odd) So now I plan to start drawing for at least 3 hours everyday but I'm not entirely sure on how to go about this. I know that just drawing randomly without any plan wont increase my skills much. So I was wondering about a setting a regimen you know a specific plan on what to draw and for how long each day. This brings me to where I need your help what type of regimen do you think I should set and what should I draw.

[SilentFire]

.........wow was it that bad of a question :skull: :nohope:

[MikeHayes]

I was going to reply before but I figured I would wait for someone with more knowledge and experience than me to help you out. But since that has not happened yet I will offer whatever advice I can give.

First of all try and find a figure drawing workshop in your area. I know that in the bay area there are several inexpensive places where you can go and draw from a live model for a few hours. If you are serious about becoming a great artist this is essential. you should also spend a lot of time on your own drawing self portraits, your hands and feet, still life's, your friends, your pets etc.. you can also go to a busy public place like a mall and start drawing random people that you see.

second of all I would go over to www.fineart.sk and download all four Andrew Loomis books (they are out of print so you can't buy them in store) His books are packed with tons of information and useful exercises.

After a while you will start to notice that some things are easier to draw than others, don't just draw what you are good at, set aside additional time to work on the things you can't draw well (common examples are hands, feet, ears, noses etc..)

Some things NOT to do. don't copy directly from photographs or drawings. you can use them as reference to analyze but you never want to be just a photocopy machine, it will get you nowhere. don't just draw anime or comic book style, If you take the time to learn the correct proportions of the human figure you will be much more succesful if you choose to stylize it later on.

I hope that I have helped you a bit. If I think of anything else I will post again
good luck with your studies

[Rhaucan]

I remeber your post last time and I said I was in the same position as you. Well i'm still in the same position, at first I went about drawing everything, it was rediculous. Trees ones day, faces next, buildings next. Was to unstructured to get me progressing or anything, or everything was a rough sketch and left unfinished.

Anyway to the point. An education/critique program on these forums is the process of being made called the CA acadamy. Salvaged from what used to be called "the middle class". You can read all the details about it here
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27949

I'm hoping to get involved in it. I'm mainly looking for structure, so I can wake up an know exactly what i'm going to draw and when i'd like it done by.

Good luck with your art.

[Signature]

Thanks for advertising Rhaucan. :)
Yeah that is the attitude we are looking for there. But we don't have much to offer yet.
Especially if you actually want to study 3 hours a day you might be disappointed soon.

Better than nothing though. We could probably improvise.
I know a few links and could probably point out some resources.
Other members might be able to help as well.

We have a suggested order there. So that you work on one thing at a time.

[NobodyYouWouldKnow]

Hey, everybody! When I saw this post I knew I had to reply, and I would have been the first one but for some reason I never got my Registration Activation E-Mail. I decided to try again today and it came right away this time. Oh well.

I've started millions of threads just like this one and they always end in tears (You can read a few of them here (http://www.sketchbooksessions.com/shanesboard/viewtopic.php?t=6737), here (http://www.digitalwebbing.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30132&perpage=15&pagenumber=2), here (http://www.digitalwebbing.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34691), here (http://www.digitalwebbing.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43623), here (http://www.digitalwebbing.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48621), here (http://www.digitalwebbing.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51748), or here (http://www.sketchbooksessions.com/shanesboard/viewtopic.php?t=20093)). But don't worry, I'll try to keep things brief. From what I have learned from the threads I linked to and other resources, you can only improve at drawing by doing lots and lots of copying. Draw from life, copy photographs, and copy other's artwork. For hours and hours everyday, for years and years. MikeHayes wrote not to copy photographs, and I am curious as to why not. Wouldn't it be the next best thing to drawing from life? I want to know because in a few years, I am going to start drawing-from-life/copying for at least 6 hours everyday, and if copying photographs really doesn't get you anywhere I'd like to know before I start :^^: .

Anyway, good luck SilentFire, your determination to improve will be your greatest asset!

[MikeHayes]

The reason I would advise against just copying from photos is that I wasted two years in community college (following bad advice from a lazy professor) just copying photos. I was making beautiful copies and because of that I thought I was good but in the end it was all for nothing because I wasn't really learning anything. It was not until I got to a real art school and started drawing from life that I began to make dramatic improvements in my skills.

There are many problems with copying photos. One is that the lens will distort the proportions of the human form and copying these proportions will really mess you up. The more serious problem though is that a photograph is a 2d interpretation of a 3d form. DRAWING IS ALL ABOUT ANALYZING (OR IMAGINING) A 3D FORM AND INTERPRETING IT ON A 2D PLANE. Thus if you are just copying a photo you are missing out on an important step. One of the really bad things I used to do was slowly and carefully copy the outline and visible interior lines of whatever I was trying to draw and completely ignore the structure, DO NOT DO THIS. It will help develop you observational skills a tiny bit but that is all.

I will reiterate what I said in my previous post. Drawing from a live model is essential. If you have tried and can't find a way to do this then try harder! But if you absolutely, positively do not have the opportunity to draw from a live model I will try and explain a way to use photo reference properly. Start drawing a figure (or whatever it is you are trying to draw) completely from imagination when you get stuck on an area find MULTIPLE photos of that area, analyze the 3d structure of that area, put the photos out of sight and try interpreting (drawing) it again. I will say it again DO NOT JUST BE A PHOTOCOPY MACHINE look at the structure.

If you are looking at master drawings for reference the same principle applies. do not just copy the lines and shading the artist makes, instead analyze what the artist is trying to convey about the structure of the form with those lines and shading, and interpret it on your own. (If you are copying a master drawing to learn their technique that is a completely different story)

When you said that you should do lots and lots of copying you were half right. What you want to do is do lots and lots of analyzing, learning and interpreting, not just copying. hopefully I have explained the difference.

The fact that you started seven threads on this subject says something about your persistance.
make sure you apply that same persistance to your art education. I am an extremely focused and persistant person and it has helped me become a much better artist than I ever thought possible.

On a side note I am hoping to teach art at the college level some day so if I am being unclear about what I am trying to say above please let me know. I want to practice being as clear and articulate as I can possibly be.

[Signature]

Ron Lemen (fredflickstone) shows in step-by-step tutorials how to copy photos properly and where understanding the structure plays an important role.
Most the threads are stickied there:
Tutorials, Tips & Tricks (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=42)

Another good one for analyzing the lighting situation is that tutorial:
light & dark (http://www.anticz.com/drawing1.htm)

[hito]

you can still draw everything you see. but use your 3hr block and devote it to a single subject, say trees, or cars, or figures, or portraits. During that 3hr draw in progressively longer segments. Use a stopwatch to keep track of the time.

start off with short sketches, a couple dozen of these, one to two minutes each. Draw the subject from different angles, work on building a 3d form in your mind, learn about the subject through the short sketches. look for basic underlying forms. essentialy making visual notes in these sketches.

next you can move on to longer segments, 20 to 30 minutes, here you lay-in in the subject with simple lines, then take time to render the subject to reveal the basic underlying forms. Thus a car would be rendered like some blocks joined together, don't worry about the details yet.

finish with a long segment, at least an hour, or more. start from simple forms, lay in general values to show the basic underlying forms, add details. Only draw what you can see clearly, and not everything that you think is there. Looking at a face at a few feet away, you don't see every individual eyelash or hair in the eyebrow, don't render them as such. indicate them as a whole.

An everything that's already been said so far also. :)

[rituals]

Like mentionned earlier we have the ca academy now. afaik thats the closest thing to a plan. (next to a formal art education of cource.)

I know what you feel because i am in the same situation. Looking for a good plan before doing something is a healthy thing to do. It garantee that you will use your motivation and time "budget" as wisely as you can. Unfortunately, If you really want to draw, you'll have to accept that there are no definite "paths" thru the mountains, you have to deal with the uncertainty. Once you do that you will stop looking for plans, and put your mind to drawing and making progress.

afaik learning how to draw is just like the story of the elephant and the blinds, except there's one single blind, and it is you. You will feel different aspects of the thing without ever seeing the whole. The progress is slow, but the most important thing to do is to not get discouraged, and keep molesting the elephant. :wink:

[NobodyYouWouldKnow]

Thanks for the replies :^^:

Wow! MikeHayes, thanks alot for your reply! That was extremely helpful, very clear and articulate. I'm used to getting a lot of vague answers, but I think yours was completely understandable! You might make a great art teacher! What meant the most was that you had copied photographs for years and not made any progress with your imagination drawing skills. Gees! Thanks for saving me from the same fate :x

I'm about to start an online art school (Academy of Art University Online (http://online.academyart.edu/)*) where we will be copying photographs. Drawing is extremely unintuitive for me, so I have to wonder if it will do any good.

So let me get this straight, life drawing absolutely does some good, if done in high enough quantity and focused on the same subject, while copying photographs/artwork only does good if you know how to interpret what you are copying as three-dimensional?

Thanks again, MikeHayes, that was extremely helpful. I almost wasted 10,000 hours!

*edit* Just saw this thread (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16698) and it looks like the school will be a huge waste of time and money, just like I thought. Oh well, such is life.

[MikeHayes]

So let me get this straight, life drawing absolutely does some good, if done in high enough quantity and focused on the same subject, while copying photographs/artwork only does good if you know how to interpret what you are copying as three-dimensional?

YES! YES! I think that you understand. Just remember whether you are drawing from life, photos or drawings always be thinking about the 3d structure.
STRUCTURE, STRUCTURE, STRUCTURE. don't ever forget that word.

The only other thing I would say is to remove the word "copy" from your vocabulary. As artists we must be interpretors and creators, not copiers