ConceptArt is GROWING...got any IDEAS? [Archive]

Sadclown

January 5th, 2003, 09:48 AM

Well, all of Smeagol's idea's are great I think. I particularly like the idea of a scheduled chat with the Pros (of course who knows if you guys will have time for that, but it's still a great idea).

As for myself (and maybe I'm whining here, if so ignore me), the only problem I have with the site as it is, is when you post something in an effort to get help and receive either no responses or completely unhelpful replies. So I'm thinking maybe a section for newbies to get help, would be good. I know there are several noobs on the boards (including myself), that could really use some help and all but get ignored when they post.

Another idea, (again, time is an issue here) maybe a new tutorial each week. Ya know, nothing major, just something basic like general color theory, lighting, basic painting techniques, something like that.

Again, these ideas are geared toward the noobs around here, but with so much talent on the boards it's a shame when guys with less experience go unhelped.

but that's just my two cents.

Jason Manley

January 5th, 2003, 09:58 AM

these are good ideas guys...thanks

we should be able to do both things you mention.

i am in agreement with the responses to art and questions thing

right now the site has too many oohs and aaahs...to much complimenting going on. There needs to be an area for that and an area for crits.

I will see what i can do about that

what else???

coriat

January 5th, 2003, 10:03 AM

blablabla...An update to the look and prominence of the chat room would be nice as well. blablabla
we have a Mirc chatroom davi has set-up no-one visits :)

well, a weekly tutorial would be nice, but a better idea (IMHO) is to have 'drawing classes'.
Like one of the many great artists here explains something and then everyone who wants to learn something makes a (quick) piece which incorporates the things explained and then gets good crits 'n stuff. :)

and give all the different sections of the board a makeover... right now it's confusing to browse the board while there are so many different sections.

hope this helps...:rolleyes:

John P.

January 5th, 2003, 10:09 AM

I agree with Sadclown.

My main problem with this site as it is now, is not with the site at all, but as he mentioned it's the lack of feedback from peers.

It's nice to get many views when you've posted something, but you never know if the people viewing it hates it or likes it.

And sometimes if I've posted a lot of comments, I feel I can't comment on any more pieces, 'cause my name will be all over the page, and it looks lame - like I'm hyperactive or something...

And sometimes you need help from more experienced artists, as Sadclown said.

Sorry for not being more constructive, not much you can do about this I suppose.

Maybe have a rule that if you don't post a comment at least once a day, you're banned for a week... ;)

j/k! :D

Travis_Bourbeau

January 5th, 2003, 11:58 AM

Nice to see that this sight will grow !

I have a few sugestions that i think could bring some interesting threads etc hear

When i was with cg channel before taking a break to work on my skills (meaningi suck at 2d ) we had a great boom with the cg contest but i wouldnt recomend that its kinda a short term thing it starts out great but losses intrest fast! I think more than anything its your top viewed posters like the regulars here sparth you jason, feng, hawkprey etc (many more ) that really build the forums, but then the sinjun factor comes in where you get 800 post a day and people get tired of looking through a bunch of umm ok pictures to find some good ones

Personaly id sugest loosing the wip and sketches and doodles by merging them or just naming it sketches or roughs etc This could free up room for a Harsh Crits forum where you only post if your really willing to hear what people would think and how to fix, what to work on!
I think to many people focus on bieng nice and not hurting peoples feeling but at the same time I think there are alot of people like me That dont give a damn if you think i suck or im great i just want to better my skills and honesty is the only way to do that at the moment the only real decent crits i get is from some friends like daryl mandrake and dan dixon , martin krol on msn these guys are great cause if something is wrong or sucks they dont have trouble saying thats sh_ty which some times is what you need to hear

The goals of posting would be more on the flaws of the pic rather than the pic itself for example if i post a character I shouldnt expect to hear cool character but more hey the lighting sucks i suggest _______ or you should focus on this or that etc maybe have a encourgment to post a book or link that may help the person etc

The reason I think this forum would do well is that it would make people have to think before posting and give good feedback etc I think that this sight is professional enough to pull it off as well

The tutorials forum could use a kick from the big guys around here to I think no othere single thing here would bring more to the table than piking up some good art theory and techniques subjects that cover a broader range like color theory and lighting etc I my self am studying and have thought of doing a few but im honestly not at the level to help others yet< and i find it a shame that most of the best information im finding regarding painting etc is in books that were published in the 40s Theres so much talent and especialy new talent in digital painting etc would be good to see some new founding fathers emerge ;)

One last suggestion ( tired of me yet ) would be to find one great post or artist a month and highlight them or there work and ask for something small as to there techniques etc maybe a small demo for example interviews are aften boring i think but seeing someone work or show how they think when they do is amazing dodawa comes to mind as having a style that is truly inspiring and would be interesting to see a process broken down

anyway thanks for asking jason looking forward to what you impliment

sorry for my spelling typing errors etc to tired to post but a good thread
Trav

Pontemonti

January 5th, 2003, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by ¤ N G ¤
And sometimes if I've posted a lot of comments, I feel I can't comment on any more pieces, 'cause my name will be all over the page, and it looks lame - like I'm hyperactive or something...

Well, in my opinion...posting lots can be either good or bad...as long as you post something useful...as long as you posting something that doesn't say "looks good" or whatever...then I'm fine with it...people tend to get annoyed by someone who's posting a lot if the posts don't really add anything or if this person keeps going off topic all the time. So, if you have something to say, just post it! If people start complaining about it maybe you should try to post less, but as long as they don't complain...just post.

It's always like this - you get far more views than replies to a thread...I mean, I do check the different forums from time to time...I look at some of the great stuff that's posted there...but I rarely reply to anything...what should I say? I could say "I like it" to the things I like and "I don't like it" to the things I don't like...but going more into depth is a) too hard for me (I have no art skills) and b) time consuming. I guess most of the "newbies" are afraid to say what they think...well, that's what I would be...if someone (who's clearly better than me, but still far away from the "top") has posted something I would probably be afraid to point out the "faults", knowing that I can't do better myself. And, it does take time to write something useful...
So, what can we do about this? How do we get people to really say what they think about something? I guess that if more people start being more open about what they think, we could get even more people to be...but there will still be a whole lot of "lurkers"...does someone have any ideas of what to do about this "issue"? It's impossible to force people into criticizing (sp?) something, but perhaps we could do something to at least encourage them...?

Sadclown

January 5th, 2003, 12:17 PM

Cerreto makes some good points. Honesty is something that is definitely needed when asking for crits, however, I have to say there's a very fine line between honesty and just being an ass.

To say "that lighting's shitty" isn't going to help someone become better anymore than tell them "well, that's a great character". Crits need to be constructive as well as honest, describing exactly what's wrong and some suggestions on how to make it better.

For instance, the last painting I posted, I got the reply "draw it again". That doesn't help me make it better, and if I weren't so determined it woudl probably just discourage me.

As it is, when I post something I want someone who is better than I to make an honest judgement of the piece and give me some idea of what I'm doing wrong.

Anyway, once again just my two thoughts on a section specifically for "harsh crits".

Travis_Bourbeau

January 5th, 2003, 01:08 PM

Thanks sadclown i agree the emphassis should be focused more on getting constructive feedback but i think anyone used to doing this as a job could handle hearing just about anything lol

Im betting my first reaction to seeing some one just post draw it again would maybe make me a bit like ooo K ? but then again in posting you should be careful of what opinions to take wheter you like them or not

When i go back to my sight which i havent updated in 8 months i can see what i thought were decent models at the time 7 months late im embarassed they are on the net LOL not that i think im soo good now but that i have improved greatly in those 7 months due to lots of practice work and good advice alot of that advice at the time were some comments that when i first seen was like man that guys rough LOL

Its all in how you take things too i guess now if i hear someone say draw again or the lighting sucks i just look at it through unbiased eyes and ask myself does it ? the answer is often maybe and if its maybe then its worth trying again

I guess what im trying to say is that the forum would probaly be more pro as most profesionals are forced to put there fellings to the side and post count in there wouldnt be to high becuase not a ton of people can handle having someone say exactly what they think but i do think its a opurtunity for people that cant even watch tv cause they work so much LOL on art to get good honest feed back

but it should not be a place for those searching just to make an ass of themselves posting things rudley i agree !

If this does sound like its something you like jason and others id be more than willing to help the forum in moding etc as im on all the time but i think it wouldnt get to rough

Fozzybar

January 5th, 2003, 03:42 PM

Maybe a rating system would solve the problem pontemonti was talking about. If someone don't know what to write a feedback like a rating from 1-6 would help to see how much the users like your work.

Go in, look at the image, write your C&C, click on a rate, leave.

I think it's ok, when people post how much they liked the work. Other than crits you also need accolade for your motivation, so you know that you're on the right way.

What i often miss here is some explanations to the concept, since this is a conceptart-board. I know, that there are many works which are done just for the mood or without great concepts, but if someone posts something conceptart-related he/she sould add some lines of his concept/intention...

Idea 1:
Maybe a own section for characters, creatures, environment etc would help to get a better overview of the mess...

Idea 2:
How about a conceptart-coop-image-section. After defining a subject, one user starts an image with one element like a char, creature, object...anything...than the next one adds something and at the end you get an image on which many artists worked together. Afterwards the whole community can discuss which parts were helpful for getting the subject-goal and which one were not so good, and why etc...

Smeagol71

January 5th, 2003, 05:26 PM

Hey Fozzy, your second idea is very cool. I think that would be not only a lot of fun, but a great way to let everyone in on different the different creative processes we go through. I definitely vote for that as one of the additions!

Deth Jester

January 5th, 2003, 06:48 PM

Hrm...

I happen to be a very passive viewer of the forum.. I check out alot of the stuff but rarely post feedback... I mainly just help with Painter questions.. links etc...

I have a few thoughts/ideas.

*Keeping people aware of important things in different threads are good. Thus I believe a news section would be really nice. Someting like bluesnews or whatever..

*I really like the idea of a scheduled IRC chat with Pro...

*The WIP section, Sketch, Doodle, Life drawing, etc.. I think we should throw into one section, and create a new section called:

Black and BLue... basically all its for is criticism.. if you post there and say you need crits and help you are fair game..But you need to state what your problems are.. and what you need help on yourself.. YOU ALSO HAVE TO ANALYZE YOUR OWN PICTURE AND WRITE WHAT YOU THINK IS WRONG! And I am not talking 1 or 2 sentences Im talking a good 1 -2 paragraphs... I think the biggest problem is people themselvs do a WIP.. and want criticsim, but cant crit and look at there own peice themselves.. By doing this yourself, not only will you learn more, you won't be a passive learner.

ALSO if you post in a thread and just say"That looks good." "or I dont like it" without putting some criticism into it.. you get warned, and if you do it again you get kicked. plain and simple. There are plenty of other sections to say simple things.. this one is for Help.. I know it sounds harsh.. but sometimes you need to be..

Another problem, I think is it is HARD to get people to give good crits, because of time issues, and tons of other things...
But I think if the artist themselves gives a crit, then you can add in alot easier.

OH! People are always big on rewards or incentives.. I like how on ebay if you give a good trade you can get stars or whatever.. I think if you give good crits you should get stars or something.. and with those gives you some sort of priviledge or something.. *havent worked out this idea, but Im sure someone will read it and think of something*

*keeps going*

This goes back to keeping people informed of stuff on the boards.. I like how on CGTalk.com at the top of the message board are pictures.. that link to somewhere on the boards dealing with those pics.. that is really nice.. If someone does something exceptional, you get great coverage.. This would work well with the "Black and Blue" section.. if someone has a peice that needs help.. having publicity would be great... *shrug* Im babbling..

Ill stop now.. I need to step away and come back with a fresh mind and eyes..

peace.. hope I brought up some ideas that will help.

*sorry for the long post*

ZeeWire

January 5th, 2003, 07:52 PM

I like the rating system to avoid the meaningless Great Job! or Cool Stuff! posts. On the other hand some sites are already using a 1 to 10 rating.I would like to see instead something like: Needs work, Fine, Good, Great, Amazing...

It will save time and will leave room for more informative posts. It would also be nice to have a system to track how many users voted and another to avoid selfvoting or double voting, we don't want to convert this into a race of who's got more or something like that

MindCandyMan

January 6th, 2003, 01:56 PM

All these suggestions are awesome. One thing I would really like to see is some analysis of the master's works...maybe the pros could even show some of the illustrations/concept work that they have done that has been influenced by a particular master's style...maybe even show some of the paintings and talk about the technique the master used to achieve the look...etc... Maybe every week/month....daily if it could be done haha...I would love that. I think that would be so beneficial.

PhilHolland

January 6th, 2003, 08:28 PM

I am extremely greatful for this forum and the
service it provides. Right now it is my "forum of
choice" mostly because it seems to be the more
professional board. I used to go to other boards all the time,
but the feedback and posts I read here are way
more useful and help me grow as an artist.

I agree that the rating system is a good idea.
I really would like to see some thought out replies.
Don't get me wrong, I love seeing "Awesome!" every
now and again, but I'd much rather see, "Awesome,
here's what I like - here's what I don't like/understand".

I really like the Thunderdome and Speed Painting
threads.

It would be really neat to have an "Assignment" thread though.
Where one of pros can post either a quick write up
of a character or maybe redesign this a specific thing.
However, these things are usually hard to maintain.
Also, if any-old-joe starts the thread with "Draw
Batman in front of a building with a moon behind him" people get the impression that this might be
something he/she needs to do for school or something similar.

I know this is kinda like T-dome, but I have seen
things like this work really well. Especially at
Shane Glines old board. It's really cool to see
people takes on others characters.

Again, I can't stress how important this board is
to me. I really hope that we(all members) can keep
this board civil. Respect others. Be creative
with your posts and your replies.

That's all I got for now. -Phil

battlemonkey

January 6th, 2003, 09:49 PM

i read through half of this post, and great ideas~
this may sound corny, but, what if they had a rating scale???
1-10, so that at least if they dont leave a comment, you'll at least know if people like it or not? it might be kind of degrading, or have the option to be rated or not??? my two cents~ thats my gripe with the site, not the site, but people not commenting enough on the art!
thanks for hearing me out~:D

mcotie

January 7th, 2003, 12:35 AM

yeah! a good flogging pole for art is what we need. I sure could use some of Jason's hard core critiques on my stuff. Maybe a "post here and get shreaded" thread.

Mitch

Blackhawk

January 7th, 2003, 12:53 AM

lol Mcotie, a post and get shreaded thread would definitely be helpful, the occasional "Nice Job" is always great to see, but having someone say "You really need to do this, or watch for this, or fix this" is infinitely more helpful. Just as long as it's constructive and people don't go flaming off on how this sucks or that sucks.

I haven't really seen any of the negative flaming at this forum though, which is mainly why I enjoy this place so much. More constructive criticism is where it's at, we just need to start finding someway to give people an incentive to really critique other's stuff well.

ODIN SIX

January 7th, 2003, 02:06 AM

These are really good suggestions....

I like Fozzy's 2nd Idea and Mcotie's Ok ripp my painting to pieces idea...

My Idea is ::: Is there some way to control the traffic???

I love the Idea that is a open forum,, but sometimes when I get on here,
I can not get anywhere or do anything because
server is too busy.. That gets fustrating sometimes...
Can we make it were more people can view things at once or
something????

jester

January 7th, 2003, 02:31 AM

I especially like Coriat's idea of drawing classes.

Pontemonti wrote It's impossible to force people into criticizing (sp?) something, but perhaps we could do something to at least encourage them...?. I think those drawing classes could help.

The Self-Portrait-of-the-Day occasionally becomes one. This thread also shows that it is possible to give and receive crits that really help you along. So if "drawing classes" are taken as seriously as this spod-thread, I think it will work.

As for the many "lurkers" - yes, it can be annoying but it's normal. I found that really good pieces get lots of "ohhhs and ahhhs" and also beginners get quite a lot of replies and hints of what they can do to improve but "average" or "mediocre" pieces are somehow often ignored. I consider my pictures of the latter category and I feel that I get more replies and more help when asking a special question and not just for c&c. But sometimes I just do not know what may be the problem and can't ask a special question.

Also, a few weeks ago I suggested an "instant reply box" on top or bottom of the page to make replying faster but people thought this "ugly". I still think that this would help because I'm on a slow 56k line myself and think twice whether I will reply or not.

I like that fast rating idea very much and agree with ZeeWire to make that rating more "telling" instead of just giving stars (which could also mean great technique and execution but weak composition or "I don't like your avatar").

And I want to use this post to say "thank you" to all admins and posters here: You made this a great place already. A year ago I visited all the forums around (like penciljack, concept design, sijun, wet canvas, eatpoo, cg talk and many others) now I check out this place at least twice a day and ignore the other forums for weeks.

Jester

Fozzybar

January 7th, 2003, 02:40 AM

I started a thread of my idea in the "work in progress" section...

The first coop-image of conceptart...it's a try...whether it'll be fun or nobody hops in and we all know what the idea is worth :)

here is the thread:

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2729

miasmak

January 7th, 2003, 07:35 AM

Just some practical suggestions

I am with Jester on the quick reply box, I too am on a dialup link most of the time. It would help me to give more feedback.

I think a shred me thread is good too, a place where you are not allowed to say I like unless you can justify it.

Also perhaps a bar/window/page with a thumbnail of all the latest pics which were posted and a link to the thread. (see ZBrushCentral) or even just an indication which threads have pics in them. This is for when I am in the mood to view some inspiring work.

I have seen ratings fail as well, everybody just gives a 10 or nothing. perhaps rather a simple optional radio-buttton style questionaire, with categories such as proportion, lighting, use of imaginiation etc, and a good,bad, medium tick.

Jason Manley

January 7th, 2003, 08:20 AM

great ideas...i think we can implement them all.

i would like to see the crits move away from "awesome" and to actual honest responses.

perhaps the shredded forum is the way to go...i will think about this and get back here with a good solution.

j

mcotie

January 7th, 2003, 08:45 AM

Speaking of "shread thread". back in the old "pre-server crash" conceptart.org days, Mr. Seegmiller started a thread with a conversation about what people truly want out of their posts. Do they want to be praised or criticized (constructively of course). As I recall, the majority wanted the critiques. I for one, joined this forum to get the constructive feedback from the top dogs (if they had time of course).
In school I always enjoyed the instructors that didn't pull any punches. Screw all that tiptoe through the tulips crap and mold me into the artist I want to be!!! Shread Thread!! Shread Thread!!

mitch

Oblio

January 7th, 2003, 09:27 AM

see J? That "Aprentice letter" thread was good :D (don't drop it again - i know you don't have the time - but if you team with some other prof's around... it's "makeable")

Now... there are a lot of great ideeas here - but WHATEVER you do - don't split the forums in too many parts - i hardly am able to see all the stuff - i usualy try to do my job and see all the "finished" stuff. But since i prefere to draw instead of browsing (yeah rrright :D) in think that too many areas are BAD.
Also in my experience with the "Guest SP area" a longer thread is easyer to follow - a too big thread is hard to follow - we go there by making monthly threads - in one area - easy enough - i always see all the new posts in the area all the comments all at once.

my 0.2 cents (inflation here) :p

Pontemonti

January 7th, 2003, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by ODIN SIX
My Idea is ::: Is there some way to control the traffic???

I love the Idea that is a open forum,, but sometimes when I get on here,
I can not get anywhere or do anything because
server is too busy.. That gets fustrating sometimes...
Can we make it were more people can view things at once or
something????
This is pretty much out of our control. Sure, we could try to complain to our host, but I doubt they would do something about it...
We could try to find a better host...but the problem is; how do we know if the host is good or not? And it takes some time to move all files over to a new host...etc...
What I really wanted to say with this post is that, no, we can't control the traffic...that's what the forum system is doing already...if there's too much traffic on the server at the moment, it says "server is busy"...instead of trying anyway and bogging down the server totally.

ODIN SIX

January 8th, 2003, 01:40 AM

Thanks Pontemonti ....

I do not know as much about the internet as I should...

Ohh and one more thing,,, Do not change the color scheme..

morphine

January 9th, 2003, 05:27 AM

Do not?
I was just about to say to DO change them. Personally I don't like them. I'd make it (the site) with some lighter colors. It looks too dark now ihmo.

On the technical part, I think somethings could be done to improve the board.
For example, here on this post reply page, the "Message Icon" is almost never used. I'd take that off. The vB code works sorta well, but could be bettered... The smilies are ugly. :Þ Please change them.
The Rate This Thread option should be made different, maybe using radio buttons would make it better, and perhaps putting them at the right of the textarea where the user writes his/her reply would make it more usable.

There could be a "Forum Jump" at the top of the page as well as the bottom. The buttercrumb works well as is, but the Forum Jump would help a lot.

I don't like the links to jump to other pages (those "Pages (2): [1] 2 »" links). I think they're a bit too small.

Even replacing the « with Previous and the » with Next would make it better, i think.

The Private Messages should have a link at the top, together with the FAQ, Search, Members menu.

I agree with Oblio that too much areas are bad. And there are too many already (18). Shouldn't LIFE DRAWING, LEARNING & TECHNIQUES go to the TUTORIALS section?

I really liked the idea of the CGTalk-like header on the _root directory of the forums and the coverage it provides. But it should be well formatted, and in a better way than what they do there.
For example, we see pics there, but we don't know WHO did them nor WHAT are they nor nothing else. So a pic should be followed by a brief text imo.

Interview and chat logs should be formatted and put aside from the forum, on some other area of the SITE.
BUT there could be a link on the forums that could lead there. In that header, for example. "Read the interview by the famous..." with the guy's photo or a pic of his work... Text + pic always, unless it's something as a listing, which could not go with a picture. Remember: pics attract clicks.

I don't know if the forums work this way now or not, but maybe making like eatpoo would let the server be less stressed: letting only registered users to see what's being posted.
OK, many people may not agree with this so maybe for those lurkers we could have a "see what's inside" home for them to see a little without registering. And that wouldn't be allowing to see some of the forums/threads, but briefs on the interviews, recently posted pics (chosen by the admins), to name a few.

About the Shread Thread... Good call. But I don't know if it's really needed. Perhaps if anyone posted "please be harsh" it'd solve this problem without making a new section.

Maybe we could have different section names then.
Instead of "It's finally finished" it could be "Showoff", and instead of "Sketches/WIP" it could be "Comments Critiques and Help". Dunno, just an idea. But basically it distincts who'd want its piece to be SEEN and who'd want it to be criticized.

What about different templates (say, two) for people with slow connections and for people on Cable/DSL?
The Slow Conn's would have less posts per page and smaller decorative images. The other would have more -- say -- beautiful images and more posts per page.

I had an idea but I don't know if it's too much work for the buck: an option, at the beginning of the New Thread uhh... thingie, would set if the user wants to be criticized, if he/she wants help or if he/she just wants to show his/her artwork. This would make their threads to be grouped and color coded.

For example, we'd have "need critique" threads on a reddish color, "help" on an orangish and "showoff" on a greenish color. Yeah, the forums should be rebuilt for this, most probably (I don't know how vBulletin works).

*checks the page code*
:eek: OMG... each page has a copy of the CSS used.
*sighs* Let's make one copy of it so it'll be less to download (not much, but it does make a difference). Once it's on the cache, it'll be readed from there.

Yeah, somethings could be done to make the pages load faster. Extensive use of CSS, for example. Not coloring each TD, but assigning a class to it.

I'll be a bit harsh now, please excuse me:
I think this board looks too simple, too unprofessional and utmost ugly. There are so many jawdroppingly awesome artists in here, so the board itself should be also eye-candy!
But being eyecandy AND neutral, if you know what I mean. Clean and beautiful. (don't look at my site now!!! it's NOT an example! :D )

I guess this is it. If I have any more ideas, I'll post them here.
Sorry for the big post, and I'll be glad to explain something if I wasn't clear (which the probability is high. :) )

Wow, i DID wrote a lot, didn't I? Gee...

Pontemonti

January 9th, 2003, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by morphine
Do not?
I was just about to say to DO change them. Personally I don't like them. I'd make it (the site) with some lighter colors. It looks too dark now ihmo.Some like it, some don't. It's possible to let the user choose a different template for the site/forum...so, well...that's not really an issue imo...we could keep the current color scheme and make a new one...I'm not saying that it will be done, but I'm saying that it's possible :D

Originally posted by morphine
I don't know if the forums work this way now or not, but maybe making like eatpoo would let the server be less stressed: letting only registered users to see what's being posted.I personally don't like that...sure, some forums could be made "private", but some forums will have to be open for everyone IMO. If not, there will be some "interesting" people who don't register just because of that, and there will be lots of people who aren't really interested in being part of the community but register anyway just because they want to see something someone has posted...

Originally posted by morphine
What about different templates (say, two) for people with slow connections and for people on Cable/DSL?
The Slow Conn's would have less posts per page and smaller decorative images. The other would have more -- say -- beautiful images and more posts per page.This is a good idea, but I'm afraid that we'll have to edit quite a lot of things in the forum system to be able to do that. You see, there's a config option in vBulletin where you set the number of posts that should be displayed on one page. We would have to move that config option to make it a template option or something instead...I'm afraid that would be a bit too hard to do.
But to make a more "simple" template for people with slow connections is easier...we'll see about that.

Originally posted by morphine
I had an idea but I don't know if it's too much work for the buck: an option, at the beginning of the New Thread uhh... thingie, would set if the user wants to be criticized, if he/she wants help or if he/she just wants to show his/her artwork. This would make their threads to be grouped and color coded.

For example, we'd have "need critique" threads on a reddish color, "help" on an orangish and "showoff" on a greenish color. Yeah, the forums should be rebuilt for this, most probably (I don't know how vBulletin works).We'd have to make this a forum option...like "this forum uses color coded posts" for the finally finished forum and "this forum doesn't use color coded posts" for the lounge forum for example...It's possible to do...but I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not. Maybe it would be better to have three different forums instead. Not sure.

Originally posted by morphine
*checks the page code*
:eek: OMG... each page has a copy of the CSS used.
*sighs* Let's make one copy of it so it'll be less to download (not much, but it does make a difference). Once it's on the cache, it'll be readed from there.Some (older) browsers don't understand what these linked CSS files are...I believe that's why they have inserted the style sheet into every forum page that needs it...
This is really a availability vs. speed thing...if someone is still using an old browser they may have problems viewing the forums.

Originally posted by morphine
Yeah, somethings could be done to make the pages load faster. Extensive use of CSS, for example. Not coloring each TD, but assigning a class to it.Same thing here. All browsers do not support CSS. Do we want the forums to have white background and black text (or whatever they have set as default options) for them when they view the forums? Or should we tell them to get a new browser (most likely they can't for one reason or another - who would use an old browser?) so they can view the site? I can't answer that question, but you'll have to think about stuff like that. After all, computers are not like video game consoles (if it works on one machine it works on all the others too)...

Oblio

January 9th, 2003, 07:42 AM

:iws:
me likes colors an so!
anyhow.. if ANYONE is working on it - it would be nice to show us a preview BEFORE it goes online.. for good. It will help another brainstorm... no?

Oblio

morphine

January 9th, 2003, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by Pontemonti
Some like it, some don't. It's possible to let the user choose a different template for the site/forum...so, well...that's not really an issue imo...we could keep the current color scheme and make a new one...I'm not saying that it will be done, but I'm saying that it's possible :D
Heheh! Yeah yeah, I know that.
But it could all be done with the help of CSS... *angelic face* :D

Originally posted by Pontemonti
I personally don't like that...sure, some forums could be made "private", but some forums will have to be open for everyone IMO. If not, there will be some "interesting" people who don't register just because of that, and there will be lots of people who aren't really interested in being part of the community but register anyway just because they want to see something someone has posted...
Hmm, yeah... good point.
But I guess it'd be the only way to make the server less stressed.
Either that or a text-only template.

*is striken by some other idea*
On my profile I could set to display only certain forums, the ones that interest me.

Though, I believe another bulletin system would have to be *made* for it, practically.

Originally posted by Pontemonti
This is a good idea, but I'm afraid that we'll have to edit quite a lot of things in the forum system to be able to do that. You see, there's a config option in vBulletin where you set the number of posts that should be displayed on one page. We would have to move that config option to make it a template option or something instead...I'm afraid that would be a bit too hard to do.
But to make a more "simple" template for people with slow connections is easier...we'll see about that.
Well, I guess that applying multiple patches may not solve the problem totally.
And why not changing it all? Let's use some more time to do it, but in the end we'll be proud of what we've done.

Are you sure you don't want to change the bulletin system for something like PHPBB?

Originally posted by Pontemonti
Some (older) browsers don't understand what these linked CSS files are...I believe that's why they have inserted the style sheet into every forum page that needs it...
This is really a availability vs. speed thing...if someone is still using an old browser they may have problems viewing the forums.
Duuude! No, please, we're on 2003. We could make a site which complains with both old and new browsers only that people with newer would have a better experience.

We do not need to make all the structure onto divs placed relatively thru CSS. It'd serve us mainly to format text size, color, typeface and background colors.

I'll quote fellow webdesigner Jeffrey Zeldman on that:
Originally posted by Zeldman on zeldman.com
Instead of jumping through hoops to make a site look the same in Netscape 4 as it does in Mozilla (or any other compliant browser), offer all users genuine support by following these two guidelines:

The site's textual content should be accessible to any browser or Internet device. (If you can provide old browser users with a look and feel that conveys basic brand and color attributes, so much the better.)
The site should be usable in any browser or device, though advanced features may only be available in fully compliant, graphical browsers.

In Conceptart.org's case, i'd say that not only textual content, but also the images the users post. Or at least links to them.

(I'm a "Browser Upgrade Campaign" activist. hehe)

So, technically speaking, vB's tags should be converted to [url] tags on a "lightning fast" template.

But then again, yes, the board should have to be extensively hacked. (Or changed)

[i]Originally posted by Pontemonti
Same thing here. All browsers do not support CSS. Do we want the forums to have white background and black text (or whatever they have set as default options) for them when they view the forums? Or should we tell them to get a new browser (most likely they can't for one reason or another - who would use an old browser?) so they can view the site? I can't answer that question, but you'll have to think about stuff like that. After all, computers are not like video game consoles (if it works on one machine it works on all the others too)...
Please, dude, I'm not a total newbie on this.
"Do we want the forums to have white background and black text(...)?"
I guess so, yes. If we can have them to read and see the content (i.e., users images) the very same way...

I'm sorry if this is too confusing and messed up (or either sounds rude), but I just had a not-so-good news and I'm sort of shocked.

Best regards,
Ricardo Pante aka morphine

Fozzybar

January 9th, 2003, 09:53 AM

And now something completely different:

How about a new logo for conceptart, maybe linked with a logo-contest?

morphine

January 9th, 2003, 11:11 AM

TOTALLY AGREED!!!!
I was already thinking about that. hehe

Pontemonti

January 9th, 2003, 01:02 PM

*is striken by some other idea*
On my profile I could set to display only certain forums, the ones that interest me.This may make the forums easier to navigate once you've set it up as you want it...it may even result in smaller HTML files when you view the forum index...but one thing it won't do is reduce the load on the server...it will take longer time to request a page since the system will have to do more checks on what it should display...not only "is this user registered and is he/she part of a special user group?" but also an extra "which forums should I display?"...the difference in server load will be very small, but anyway...it will, as you said, take time to make this hack. Too much time compared with what you get out of it (a feature only a small amount of users will use, I guess).

Are you sure you don't want to change the bulletin system for something like PHPBB?Good god, no! vBulletin is so much better than phpBB. And when version 3 will be released later this year it will be even better :D

Duuude! No, please, we're on 2003. We could make a site which complains with both old and new browsers only that people with newer would have a better experience.

We do not need to make all the structure onto divs placed relatively thru CSS. It'd serve us mainly to format text size, color, typeface and background colors.If adding some html COLOR properties etc. will make the site look A LOT better on old browser, why not do it? Sure, the site will still work in old browser if we would use CSS only, but it would be ugly as hell...and no one likes ugly sites...which makes them look for another site instead.
I guess this can be solved with two different templates...one HTML-only kind of template and one CSS-only. But there are lots of other much more important things to do before we should even start thinking about that.

In Conceptart.org's case, i'd say that not only textual content, but also the images the users post. Or at least links to them.
...
So, technically speaking, vB's [img] tags should be converted to [url] tags on a "lightning fast" template.

But then again, yes, the board should have to be extensively hacked. (Or changed)Yeah, this seems like a lot of work. At least I believe it is. I can't remember where the IMG and URL tags are replaced...it may be done on a template-level and if so it may be really easy to change it so that the IMG tag makes a link out of it instead...I will have to check on that later.

morphine

January 10th, 2003, 04:38 AM

What needs to be done and what could be done?

Oblio

January 10th, 2003, 05:20 AM

well.. a lot of talk and not much ideas lately.
So.. morphine had a good point: Someone (not ME.. please, NOT ME :D) should make up a "to do" list.
I know the debate is long and twisted but.. take note - this forum is VERY slow. A bit of speed might help for sure. Thank you!

Oblio

morphine

January 10th, 2003, 11:06 AM

Sorry. I didn't see this option on the User's Control Panel:

Show image attachments and [img] code in Posts?
Selecting no will show a hyperlink instead.
Sooo who's on 56k could set this to NO to make his/her viewing a bit faster.

Pontemonti

January 10th, 2003, 04:35 PM

Cool, morphine! I didn't know about that :)

Manta_Ray

January 15th, 2003, 05:41 AM

With all the great people on here the forum it is only going to get bigger and I see that as one of the major problems. I have so little time sometimes I cant check or read everything so a reduction in categories would be cool (I think it has already been mentioned) but also related to this is the readability of the site...it sucks.

The colours are too dark but ironically dont hurt the eyes...neutral colours are fine for reading, just need tweaking...there is alot to read here :D and also the text needs formatting of some sort, the font is slightly too big or the line spacing too small, it just makes reding large slabs of text a chore....

I love the choice of emoticons (smilies). Is there a way to show more of them in the reply section rather than having to get more which can be time consuming?

Dont have user choice on templates. It doesnt look good and sometimes doesnt work...the relicnews vBulletin forum is a case in point...goes from light colours to dark colours in diffrerent sections...bleh...

Is that crit enough?:chug:

miasmak

January 15th, 2003, 02:24 PM

perhaps a way of seeing some of the images posted by a member. e.g. if someone comments in a thread it may be nice to see what images the person has posted elsewhere. the search for all post isn't helpful for this.

Oblio

January 16th, 2003, 09:25 AM

I'm with Mia!

But look here (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=24100#post24100)

Have a look at VOVO's script.
Now.. THAT is something i would LOVE to see around - a tutorial or class room section with that power.. would rock!
Thx, Vovo.

Oblio

davi

January 18th, 2003, 01:29 AM

I have mentioned doing files in WPE formate using OPEN CANVAS as tutorials, the are small files and have great quality.

taff

January 18th, 2003, 10:49 AM

OpenCanvas would be a nice idea for tutorials, and painting together, colaborating is like 5 times more fun than being on your own.

Lev_0

January 18th, 2003, 12:25 PM

If some of the pros pooled together and made a curriculum that we could follow I think it'd give everyone that's teaching themselves a bit more structure to everythin that they're learning. Starting from drawing matte cubes/spheres to plaster casts, perspective etc. I spend as much time figuring out what I'm going to learn as I do learning it! Every school has a curriculum, why don't we!

gekitsu

January 18th, 2003, 12:47 PM

as for forum sections:

there are upsodes and downsides of the lots of subforums we have here:
on the one hand, you have a straight way to go if you are searching for something specific.
i want to see cool illustrations? -> finished work subforum.
i want to see ideas, quickly thrown on paper? -> sketches subforum

not to mention all the activities and periodicals that need their own subforum.
andrew's self portraits, coro's sketchbooks, speedpainting, thunderdome... no way to merge them with different forums.

downside is... that you only see what you are browsing. the rate of interesting things you miss is higher than usual until you take the time and check every subforum for new threads.

is there a possibility to have threads that are part of two forums?
like: i post a painting in the finished stuff forum and check a box that says "shred me"- what means, this topic is also shown in the shredding critiques forum.
replies to the thread in one forum are saved to the thread itself, not the thread in one forum but not in the second one.
hmm... maybe that made everything even more complicated.
how about a checkbox with posting a new thread if you wish harsh crits and all threads with the box checked are crosslinked in a forum that isn't really a completely new forum?
you wouldn't add one new forum that will spread content even more but collect certain threads with a common intention in one place to look at.
maybe like:
"thread name" "native forum name" "posts" "views" etc...
in the native forum, where the thread is posted, a small icon could show if the shred-me-box was checked or not.
maybe, over time, this thing can be abandoned, if hardly any threads at all would end up with the box unchecked. we had developped this place in a good forum for crits, then.

a certain amount of the forums being cluttered with stuff is the amount of things that are going on, too. all the dailies, sub-activities, learning theory threads, discussions, contests, lessons by masters, and and and...
that is about three times the offer what most other forums have for their visitors.
maybe it's the best to let forums grow organically. say: 3d concepts forum isn't frequented enough to maintain one forum for itself but mainly is about sketches in polygons. so why not merging it to the sketches forum?
or: one forum is filled and filled with lots of different things that all fit in the topic of the forum. maybe it's better then to split the forum into two subforums.
that is something only time can show.

news about the indutry would be a good thing, as chat with pro's would be.
maybe there is place for something like an "art talk" section where one pro is interviewed in a way that is interesting for aspiring artists. tips, hints, philosophies. about their technique, maybe featuring a short walkthrough or an opencanvas WPE.
i second davi about the use of opencanvas.
it is a handy tool that is capable of a lot of things, plus recording the process in small files of high quality.

different things that pop tp my mind are:
making up an "encyclopedia" where one can look up some important things and terms, maybe even along with links to sites about the topic or forum threads about it.
-most likely, it's too much work to put together something like that.

giving more weight to the chatroom. one hand, it's just nice to have a talk with the people around, other hand, you could team up with more talented artists for short opencanvas sessions, gathering reallife experience points.

as for the forum colors: i like the muted, low-saturated colors. they don't distract too much from the artwork and don't kill the "eye calibration" with extremely bright colors eliminating shadow detail or extremely dark colors eliminating detail in bright areas. they're just fine.

edit: the idea with professionals posting a short learning paragraph(a wisdom bit ;)) once a week, for example would be great. i fear that no one would bring up the time for this.
i'd imagine that like some short post about the special problem of skinfolds.
or color palette choosing.
or symbolism elements.
some could be topics that a certain artist is very interested in and covers "his" subject bit by bit (like: andrew jones giving insight into human anatomy piece by piece. one week neck musculature, next time, it's basic face expressions, next time, the shoulder joint... never a huge topic like human anatomy, just a short excerpt of a huge topic that one hardly finds explained in detail anywhere else)
some other wisdom bits could be things an artist stumbled across, finding out more about it, ending up with a small pool of specialized knowledge
(like: "i recently had a bit of research about gargantuan size statues - you won't believe how interesting that is")