about this section. - closed thread

[Jason Manley]

We are listening to the community and making some changes. There has been much discussion about the need for a place for beginners and other artists who would like to share their work and learn amongst other similar levels of artists. In order to be able to give more appropriate critiques and focused teaching for those who need it most, we have created this section.

This section will be moderated by none other than SPARTH and will be given specific and new tutorials in order to help support it. We are going to focus on the basics and focus on helping you and each other.

Please do not be offended if your work gets moved in here. If it does, it is a boon for you because you will be able to focus on your work and get crits of a more specific level.

The new site is going up soon and there is a very specific structure. If you work hard you can literally move from here all the way up to the main page. I will have more details on this soon.

Please bear with us and help support this most important section. Afterall, not long ago I was the beginner of beginners and I needed as much assistance as possible. This is where that will happen for you!


Thank you,


Jason Manley

[Duq]

You can have my sausage for this :D

But seriously, this is great :D

Will the proffesionals be monitoring us, so to say? And to what level must the images be finished? Or can you also place wips and studies here?

[Jason Manley]

this is the area for you to share your works. pure and simple. the mods and pros will do their best to assist you. you will also be assisting each other.


j

[Shorty_Sancho]

This is great. Cant wait to post here :) more crits and help. Exactly what I want and need.

[davi]

giving crits of others work also helps you be more subjective of your own pieces, so take some time out of the general browsing and drop some comments here

[D.O.Jones]

Awesome! If this place stays alive then I think it will quickly become one of the best parts of the forum.

[Agat_vonghoul]

The new site is going up soon and there is a very specific structure. If you work hard you can literally move from here all the way up to the main page. I will have more details on this soon.


Jason Manley

so now people got to start off in this forum and work there way to places people will look?

[jetpack42]

so now people got to start off in this forum and work there way to places people will look?

maybe you failed to even observe the forum before you posted this, but almost EVERY post in there has over 100 views. When i posted in the finished section before, I was lucky to get 50. Every thread has replies too.

At least LOOK before you post.

[Agat_vonghoul]

ah i see well i just dont think many will take it as good as most should then
i dont know its just the name of the fourm i guess?

[Elwell]

giving crits of others work also helps you be more subjective of your own pieces,
OBjective

[jester]

Great! Exactly what MCM, I.was.ink and I were looking for when we founded the middle class way back, well, in the CA middle ages, sort of.

Thank you ever so much!

Jester

[StudioPC]

Yeah, its a great idea.

That said, I'd like to know why two of my pieces were moved here. Neither qaulified as finished in my mind. Batrix was an idea and the inked creature thing wasn't much more then an idea.

Thank you.

[Elwell]

Maybe this should be a top level forum instead of a subforum of Finally Finshed? It would be more visable and avoid the sort of confusion StudioPC is having.

[Signature]

Maybe this forum and "LIFE DRAWING, LEARNING, TECHNIQUES, & TUTORIALS" would fit better in the "EDUCATION & LEARNING" category!?
No?

[StudioPC]

Maybe this should be a top level forum instead of a subforum of Finally Finshed? It would be more visable and avoid the sort of confusion StudioPC is having.

Actually, I'm more . . . what's a good word here? Miffed that my stuff was moved without so much as a why or that it was moved at all without letting me know.

If I violated forum rules without realizing it, that's one thing. But I take exception to having my stuff arbitraily moved just because there's some members who've . . . seen fit to . . . be less then helpful, shall we say and thus some controversy.

[Signature]

StudioPC:
Relax. There is a lot going on at CA right now and it is not unusual that mods do stuff without telling you why.
You can ask here of course but it could sound a little nicer.

I guess there is a minimum level of skill required for posting sketches and finished work.
Artwork that doesn't qualify is moved to this forum no matter if it is finished or not.
That should answer the question.

That is just what I'm guessing though. Haven't really read anything about that yet.
Would be better for people browsing the finished work/sketches sections as well as for beginners.
Because people who are just looking for inspriration are more likely to write nasty replies.
People who come here know what to expect and their replies will be more helpful.

[Elwell]

Actually, I'm more . . . what's a good word here? Miffed that my stuff was moved without so much as a why or that it was moved at all without letting me know.

Ditch the damned attitude. Your threads were moved because this is where they belong and where you will get the most appropriate response.

I redirect you to the very first post from Jason in this thread:

Please do not be offended if your work gets moved in here. If it does, it is a boon for you because you will be able to focus on your work and get crits of a more specific level.

[StudioPC]

Ditch the damned attitude. Your threads were moved because this is where they belong and where you will get the most appropriate response.

I redirect you to the very first post from Jason in this thread:


No. This is not additude. This is me trying to be civil and polite.

[StudioPC]

StudioPC:
Relax. There is a lot going on at CA right now and it is not unusual that mods do stuff without telling you why.
You can ask here of course but it could sound a little nicer.

I guess there is a minimum level of skill required for posting sketches and finished work.
Artwork that doesn't qualify is moved to this forum no matter if it is finished or not.

. . .

Well that makes me feel better . . .

[Red_Rook]

My god stop yer whining. You need all the help you can get be thankful it here have you seen how many crits you got. You wouldnt have gotten nearly as much if it was some where eles. There are what... over 10,000 active members? thats alota work for the mods and admins, please dont expect them to inform everyone everytime they do somthing so incredibly minor. Currently the standard of your work doesnt qualify as FINNALLY FINISHED WORK sorry, most of mine doesnt either. Being moved here is hardly a ounishment, i post here freely because i know i need the crits. :nod: Note this place isnt only for finnaly finished pieces of work that needs criting but sketches and doodles like yours and mine to.

[Erik]

StudioPC, i defended you in another thread but after reading this here...

Dude, the world does not revolve around you.

Learn some respect.

[Agat_vonghoul]

StudioPC:
Relax. There is a lot going on at CA right now and it is not unusual that mods do stuff without telling you why.
You can ask here of course but it could sound a little nicer.

I guess there is a minimum level of skill required for posting sketches and finished work.
Artwork that doesn't qualify is moved to this forum no matter if it is finished or not.
That should answer the question.

That is just what I'm guessing though. Haven't really read anything about that yet.
Would be better for people browsing the finished work/sketches sections as well as for beginners.
Because people who are just looking for inspriration are more likely to write nasty replies.
People who come here know what to expect and their replies will be more helpful.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters/daf.jpg


if your artwork is not up to there standards then it goes here
like the jewish i guess :doh:

[Jason Manley]

We are focusing on those who we believe are ready to recieve asisstance with their art path. We have assembled this group here with the pros, mods and hard core students so that we are all better able to learn and in turn, help.

If you do not want help or to help, then there are other art sites which will cater to your needs.

The mods are asking who they can help and then moving those images over here. It is not a demotion. It is a gift. I had to pay for this information and teachings...to the tune of a hundred thousand dollars. I would have been so grateful to recieve help for free.

Conceptart.org is refocusing now on becoming more educational and less ooh's and ahh's. Like it or not, that is the direction we are going with the site.

The head stroking gets us minor encouragement but it doesnt really get us anywhere with our art. We need to put away all ego's if we are to learn. If you aren't here to learn then I am sorry that the ca site is not right for your art.

We are going to make an effort to make this site the absolute best art learning site on the web. It is going to take time, hard work, and sacrefices. Our ego's are the first sacrefice we have to make if we are to move forward. Moving forward also means letting go of the idea that ca is only here for show and tell.

Follow along your own path with us on ours. Do your best. Inspire others. It is one of the gifts you have as an artist. And, it is one of the reasons people visit the site...inspiration..inspiration...inspiration.

Foundation traditional art values and theory will always be held in high regard on this website. we hope that the ca members will learn these foundations and will in turn learn how they can or can not be applied to imrpove their works. We will not give up on that part of the equation. Ever. We also hope that you all will continue to help others with their art based on what you learn here and elsewhere Please do..



Jason

[waronmars]

I was pleased to see even some of the more established artists posting in here, which, I think, will encourage the masses. This also means to me at least, that the "If I post here, I'm a n00b" mentality is not on.

Agat_vonghoul, you're not going to get anywhere without some humility. Members of this forum come from all around the world. Did you ever stop to think that maybe you would offend some people by posting such an image? Also, please don't steal links.

peace

[Agat_vonghoul]

edit: I promise from here on out to no longer make racist comments, offend others, or act immaturely.

I understand that IF i do not follow these steps, I will not be able to come here anymore.



hows that? -jm

[Erik]

Agat is walking on the edge i think...

[Molly]

@StudioPC - People have crited you, and given advice, but you seem adament not to listen. Your work was moved - get over it.

@Agat_vonghoul - you seriously want a slap for your previous post, thats fucking offensive......


Mollyx
(yeah? You want some?.....)

[MayaSan]

I'm with you Jason - every step.
I've also had to pay for my knowledge, so this site is a dream come true. I hope everyone out there realizes that...

Kajundik

[StudioPC]

We are focusing on those who we believe are ready to recieve asisstance with their art path. We have assembled this group here with the pros, mods and hard core students so that we are all better able to learn and in turn, help.

If you do not want help or to help, then there are other art sites which will cater to your needs.

The mods are asking who they can help and then moving those images over here. It is not a demotion. It is a gift. I had to pay for this information and teachings...to the tune of a hundred thousand dollars. I would have been so grateful to recieve help for free.

Conceptart.org is refocusing now on becoming more educational and less ooh's and ahh's. Like it or not, that is the direction we are going with the site.

The head stroking gets us minor encouragement but it doesnt really get us anywhere with our art. We need to put away all ego's if we are to learn. If you aren't here to learn then I am sorry that the ca site is not right for your art.

We are going to make an effort to make this site the absolute best art learning site on the web. It is going to take time, hard work, and sacrefices. Our ego's are the first sacrefice we have to make if we are to move forward. Moving forward also means letting go of the idea that ca is only here for show and tell.

Follow along your own path with us on ours. Do your best. Inspire others. It is one of the gifts you have as an artist. And, it is one of the reasons people visit the site...inspiration..inspiration...inspiration.

Foundation traditional art values and theory will always be held in high regard on this website. we hope that the ca members will learn these foundations and will in turn learn how they can or can not be applied to imrpove their works. We will not give up on that part of the equation. Ever. We also hope that you all will continue to help others with their art based on what you learn here and elsewhere Please do..

Jason

Yeah, I realize that now. I shouldn't have snapped and I'm sorry. There were external reasons, but I'm not going to go into them. Instead, I'm going to shut up and stick to my DSB for a while.

Thank you everyone who provided advice. It seems I have some work to do.

[Agat_vonghoul]

well for one i made NO racist comments i was saying that this fourm I felt like is a sort of concentration camp and that the mods puting others pictures in here without at least asking is not 100% fair
i felt the way i said it was a far out from being racist as one could go
but if you guys like people doing stuff thats not right and geting away with it go right on ahead but i can tell you this much id never post any of my art here after the last few days
cause this place is going down hill pretty fast
so flame away :patriot:

[Signature]

Concentration camps were not 100% fair *cough*
Maybe a less extreme analogy would have been better.

I think a standard PM that moderators can send to people who's posts are moved would be a good thing though.

What really bothers me is that the admins are not interested in complaints and suggstions at all.

[Jason Manley]

*cough*
Maybe a less extreme analogy would have been better.

I think a standard PM that moderators can send to people who's posts are moved would be a good thing though.

What really bothers me is that the admins are not interested in complaints and suggstions at all.

????

this forum came from complaints and suggestions sillypants. hehehe

there was a group of people in a discussion in the lounge who were pointing out that we needed to refocus on critiques and also to spend more time with those who would benefit from such things. this forum is the start to that.

we have been open to input since day one. that is a fact.

the mods will not be sending pm's. their time is better spent in here answering questions and helping...dont ya think?

J


J

[Jason Manley]

well for one i made NO racist comments i was saying that this fourm I felt like is a sort of concentration camp and that the mods puting others pictures in here without at least asking is not 100% fair
i felt the way i said it was a far out from being racist as one could go
but if you guys like people doing stuff thats not right and geting away with it go right on ahead but i can tell you this much id never post any of my art here after the last few days
cause this place is going down hill pretty fast
so flame away :patriot:

it was seen as racist and others mentioned it to me.

as i said, if you are not interested in learning then you should find another community to share your art with. there are pros and mods in here helping...equating them with concentration camps and making statements as such is not helpful nor will it keep you in the community.

here is a link for some other forums for you

www.eatpoo.com
www.sijun.com
www.elfwood.com
www.gfxartist.com

enjoy...there are quality things on all of them.

Here is a sample of your contributions here on the site. I doubt these kinds of things will be tolerated there either. You could use an attitude adjustment honestly. I am not one to make you do that however. That is up to you.

"you know your right it does look horrid
i hate to say it but everyone thinks they should be an artist this day and age " - agat_vonghoul

"
its anal retentive artists like you who think everything should be like Brom or some other dude who is like DUDE im so good!" -agat_vonghoul

"from me and all of us at conceptart id like to give you a very fond fuck you very much for your helpful insite into the art world" -agat_vonghoul

"i was saying something cause he was making it sound like his lich king had so many flaws it was not worth being put up
if you dont like my remarks you can be the first to kiss my ass" - Agat_vonghoul

"i said the pic is great and if your to stupid to see it then maybe you need to rethink the whole *im an artist* thing" -agat_vonghoul

"alti
must you act like a wang? ..and to the others all i got to say is jesus christ i didnt think me defending someones drawing would turn a whole website into a flame fest, you guys really need to calm down take some pills of somekind and chill, cause i didnt come in this forum to make a ton of enemys rather to see some more artwork,but as for earning anyones respect i could really care less cause i was jumped on by damn near everyone on this damn website for saying some dong didnt have the right to act like the drawing was a piece of crap

damn and you guys acted like the church at night guy was doing so good lol"

"well dont get me wrong i was just playing around i had no reason to like want to make you feel BAD or anything
its just i guess some people can and some cannot and stuff but thats no reason to like feel like your no good at nothing or something i guess? " -avat_vonghoul


These are examples of the kind of behavior which is no longer tolerated here on ca. You are now banned.

On that note...can we please move back to the topic at hand?




J

[sparth]

it seems quite impossible to send a mail for every moved thread.

and i mean, this whole controversy is plain ridiculous. for ages, people have been complaining because nothing was done concerning the problems conceptart was encountering. and for once, these problems are slowly being resolved. if we realised that there was something becoming suspicious and negative about this new section, i'd be the first one to complain about it. i just hope that peeps here, friends and fellow artists, as well as people who don't know me, will trust our choices in a mature way.
Agat_vonghoul , do you really know what you're talking about, are you really aware of how this forum works, also, how can you have the guts to make such analogies with any nazi system? this is INSULTING.
"but if you guys like people doing stuff thats not right and geting away with it" ouch, man. i suppose you are very FAR away from the philosophy we're having here. conceptart is anything except a bunch of selfish assholes going around, chosing art, and having fun with the illustrations of other artists.
spend a little more time on conceptart before doing any fast and easy conclusions. some peeps here have dedicated a lot of time thinking about the art of others instead of their own, as it is a matter of being passionate. PASSIONATE.

sparth

[Signature]

Why did you quote the
"
*cough*
Maybe a less extreme analogy would have been better"
part?

There are so many people who say that there are too many forums ...
and the reaction is starting another (well hidden) one.
That is what I don't get.

Suggestions like moving this forum and the "Life Drawing/ Tutorials ..." one into the Learning category are ignored.
No need to jump right at it but at least a discussion about organization would be good IMO.
Afaik there are other people who would like to see the learning forums move closer together.
The Middle Class is dying because people are confused.
I might be wrong, but a discussion might make it clear.

Don't get me wrong ... I have invested a lot of time also and only try to help.

it seems quite impossible to send a mail for every moved thread.

You have got to be kidding ... :-?

[Jason Manley]

it seems quite impossible to send a mail for every moved thread.

and i mean, this whole controversy is plain ridiculous. for ages, people have been complaining because nothing was done concerning the problems conceptart was encountering. and for once, these problems are slowly being resolved. if we realised that there was something becoming suspicious and negative about this new section, i'd be the first one to complain about it. i just hope that peeps here, friends and fellow artists, as well as people who don't know me, will trust our choices in a mature way.
Agat_vonghoul , do you really know what you're talking about, are you really aware of how this forum works, also, how can you have the guts to make such analogies with any nazi system? this is INSULTING.
"but if you guys like people doing stuff thats not right and geting away with it" ouch, man. i suppose you are very FAR away from the philosophy we're having here. conceptart is anything except a bunch of selfish assholes going around, chosing art, and having fun with the illustrations of other artists.
spend a little more time on conceptart before doing any fast and easy conclusions. some peeps here have dedicated a lot of time thinking about the art of others instead of their own, as it is a matter of being passionate. PASSIONATE.

sparth

he wasted enuff mod time already. We can now go back to the topic at hand. hehe

[Red_Rook]

wow agat your walking a fine fucking line my friend.



oh your banned my bad.

[Skank]

i think this is a great idea man, and for those of you who are worried about it not getting seen...just look at the average reply count on EACH post....i emphasize that because there NO "0" replys on ANY of them...thats much better than can be said for when beginners would post in the finished section..they got buried and ignored. and theyre getting great feedback. i think to make any kind of judgement on this, it will take some time to see how successful it will be. the mods are doing a great job in here...lots of pros are dropping some great crits (props to Imp Head, hes on a tear!!) so keep it up guys!

:batman:

[gaboartpage]

I take my hat to all CA crew

This site has given me soo much
when i first entered it was because
of learning attitude, only the best works
get recognition and thats my goal
to work from below to the upper level

and a gold attitude that CA has teach me is:

No shortcuts in art - practice - practice - practice

I want to help CA so much in any way
thats the less i can do for all the knowledge
i have learned here even more than school !!!!!!!!

great idea of redesign the site im totally into
the moving works and the critics, lets make this grow !!!!

we want critique :-)

im at CA service

Buena Suerte

Gabriel Garza

[Jason Manley]

Why did you quote the
"
*cough*
Maybe a less extreme analogy would have been better"
part?

There are so many people who say that there are too many forums ...
and the reaction is starting another (well hidden) one.
That is what I don't get.

Suggestions like moving this forum and the "Life Drawing/ Tutorials ..." one into the Learning category are ignored.
No need to jump right at it but at least a discussion about organization would be good IMO.
Afaik there are other people who would like to see the learning forums move closer together.
The Middle Class is dying because people are confused.
I might be wrong, but a discussion might make it clear.

Don't get me wrong ... I have invested a lot of time also and only try to help.


You have got to be kidding ... :-?


well feel free to start a thread in the lounge....you have that right...and your input is appreciated. we are not done reorganizing this place. have some patience. I said we have much work to do.


as far as a hidden place...it is not. it is on the top of the forum that gets the MOST traffic.


J

[Smith]

Hey,
I want to participate but I'm technologically challenged. I'm looking for the "browse" button to post some work but alas... I haven't one! I've never posted work on a site like this before. I have scanned images in various formats but don't know how to go about this. I appreciate any help with this tech question.

Thanks!

[waronmars]

ONE THING WE ARE MISSING!

We really need a sticky to tell noobs how to post IMAGES. I don't know how many times I've told 'em how, the good sumeritan that I am. Help out our fledgling artists, and save us all from the dreaded red x!

[Red_Rook]

ONE THING WE ARE MISSING!

We really need a sticky to tell noobs how to post IMAGES. I don't know how many times I've told 'em how, the good sumeritan that I am. Help out our fledgling artists, and save us all from the dreaded red x!
Oh yea so true
also i think happy camper mentioned a sticky for all the new peeps to say hi in the lounge, its getting cluttered.

[Signature]

------

[doom_fist]

it was seen as racist and others mentioned it to me.

as i said, if you are not interested in learning then you should find another community to share your art with. there are pros and mods in here helping...equating them with concentration camps and making statements as such is not helpful nor will it keep you in the community.

here is a link for some other forums for you

www.eatpoo.com
www.sijun.com
www.elfwood.com
www.gfxartist.com

enjoy...there are quality things on all of them.

Here is a sample of your contributions here on the site. I doubt these kinds of things will be tolerated there either. You could use an attitude adjustment honestly. I am not one to make you do that however. That is up to you.

"you know your right it does look horrid
i hate to say it but everyone thinks they should be an artist this day and age " - agat_vonghoul

"
its anal retentive artists like you who think everything should be like Brom or some other dude who is like DUDE im so good!" -agat_vonghoul

"from me and all of us at conceptart id like to give you a very fond fuck you very much for your helpful insite into the art world" -agat_vonghoul

"i was saying something cause he was making it sound like his lich king had so many flaws it was not worth being put up
if you dont like my remarks you can be the first to kiss my ass" - Agat_vonghoul

"i said the pic is great and if your to stupid to see it then maybe you need to rethink the whole *im an artist* thing" -agat_vonghoul

"alti
must you act like a wang? ..and to the others all i got to say is jesus christ i didnt think me defending someones drawing would turn a whole website into a flame fest, you guys really need to calm down take some pills of somekind and chill, cause i didnt come in this forum to make a ton of enemys rather to see some more artwork,but as for earning anyones respect i could really care less cause i was jumped on by damn near everyone on this damn website for saying some dong didnt have the right to act like the drawing was a piece of crap

damn and you guys acted like the church at night guy was doing so good lol"

"well dont get me wrong i was just playing around i had no reason to like want to make you feel BAD or anything
its just i guess some people can and some cannot and stuff but thats no reason to like feel like your no good at nothing or something i guess? " -avat_vonghoul


These are examples of the kind of behavior which is no longer tolerated here on ca. You are now banned.

On that note...can we please move back to the topic at hand?




J

insert tons of insults and vulgarity here-jm

you have wasted the time of many people who could have been helping you instead of banning your ip and email addresses.

[Erik]

Yay! another one bites the dust!

Yes, we definitely must get back to the topic at hand.

Are there going to be 'themes' for the helpful crit section like speed paint/environment/whatever? so that everyone could post in it and the different art pieces could be compared and critted and everyone could help each other. Just an idea

E.

[Layil]

Yes! back to the topic!

I for one will be posting ALL my stuff here, unless its in my SPOD or sketchbook threads, as I know not only do i have a hell of alot a learning left to do, but i actually want critiques, not "yeah, man, you rock!"s, (even though one of those is nice once in a while too. )

This is by far the best forum online when it comes to serious artists who want to learn, and its the way it is cause people who dont play nice get a big boot in their ass as a thank you. Kick all the fuckers out, theres plenty more where they came from. That said, 99.99% of the people on CA are awsome. :wink:

as for where to put this forum, i like the visibility it has here on the top of the forum, but i do agree that there will be confusion with the learning forums. It seems alot of the Threads there are dying because people dont realize they exist, or are afraid to go there? (silly i know)

In respect to the moving threads iissue: Jason, is there anyway your programmers can put some command into the code that automatically sends a notification to the thread author when its moved, giving the new location? That way its no more work for the Mods... I know id get a bit freaked if i went to find a thread of mine one day and it just wasnt there anymore... I know nothing about coding, so im not sure if this is even possible, its just a thought.

Regardless, i know you guys have good heads on your shoulders, so im just gonna sit back and see what you come up with.

just my two cents....
onward!

[kong]

so my stuff got posted in this new forum, so i guess ur saying my art is not good enough to be posted in the sketches and ideas? well if this isn't a sketch an an idea what is it?
http://kong.5u.com/images/doc%20oct.gif
http://kong.5u.com/images/kerry.gif
http://kong.5u.com/images/tmnt.gif
jeez i was hoping to get some feed back on my stuff from the artists in here and now i'm like moved to some forum no one goes to. >:D

[Signature]

You posted all of them in one thread?
In the Sketches/Wip forum you can get specific crits on one of your concepts for a finished painting.
But when I look at the threads there I don't get it either ... which one's they move and which they don't.
Just deal with it. It is not an insult. You'll hopefully get helpful critiques here.

For general critiques (on image dumps for example) this section is correct.
Image two and three look like stuff that you'd put in a sketchbook.
Quality is good. Designs ... dunno ...

The first image is way too busy. Doesn't read well. I understand why that was moved here.

And instead of posting the images here you should have posted a link to your thread.
Images in this thread are annoying!

[expat]

Firstly, I think anything which helps developing artists (like myself) get more critical responses the better. I know I've been disheartened at times when I've worked hard on something only to get 0-2 responses, especially when one of them is 'wow, that's cool' and the other one is 'uh...that's weird'.

Secondly, I agree that some form of consolidation of threads would be really helpful to clarify where certain work should be posted. Perhaps the 'Helpful Critiques' section could become a topic of it's own, perhaps under a different title with the learning and tutorial topics as sub topics or something. What is a little confusing to me is if I do a sketch, should I post it in the sketch section or this section? A little clarification might help us out...

Thanks for all your hard work, making CA.org a great source of inspiration and lerning.

[fp2]

great idea - looking forward to working on the assignments!

anything to help me improve!

glad message got moved, didn't even know about the ca academy.

forum isn't in an easy to find place!

well done, and good luck with the academy guys
thankyou
fp2

[Carnifex]

i think this is a great idea and everything,but i wonder too,when does something qualify as finished?
i made a thread in the sketches section(and it was very obviously a sketch) and it got moved here.i appreciate that in a way,but i wondered why the hell it is in the finished section when it's a sketch.
just wanted to know.
keep up the good work.

[Signature]

This forum isn't for finished art only. It should be moved into the Education category I guess.

It is not easy to bring the Academy and the Helpful Critiques section closer together though.
Jason Manley wrote that the Academy and this section should be merged in a smart way somehow.
But I guess they won't have much to do with each other, ever.
Maybe they'll start something here that is independent of the Academy though.

Here most people want others to improve their images rather than improve as artists.
(I don't mean it as negative as it might come across)

Or moderators move images here that should be improved.

The Academy tries to help members who want to work on their weaknesses.
And who want to improve their analytical skills.
I'm pretty sure those members will find the Academy eventually.
Because they'll notice that there is an "Education" category.

The purpose of this forum isn't sending people there.
Maybe we'll promote here more as soon as more content is added.
Right now it is only interesting for people who want to watch the Academy grow.
Not really for guests.

[killing.people]

i :heart: the moderators ... dreamy ... all of you.

[Pavel Sokov]

can i post my pic both here and finished art?? this place doesnt get enough replies, but if it does they are hardcore great replies

[sercoe]

finally a place for me. :)

[Tobin]

I think it's very commendable what you're doing here. I think the reason others are a bit cheesed off is because of the fact that it's a sub-forum and also the title: "Helpful Critiques: a conceptart.org foundation program", subconsciously it could sound charity-like and thus could be interperated as condescending or pretention, which I do believe all artists hate, yet most artists are:bashful:

I personally like the idea, because at other forums when I'm looking for something great and inspiring I go by the names of people i've seen when looking for something to crit and thus skip a few people I really shouldn't have.

[dCepT]

I don't mind posting this subforum. I get less replys here than in my sketchbook, but heck.. I only post one picture/WIP at a time.
I know there are less people checking in on the helpful critiques, but at least I do. I also try to help where I can when other people post. It's no use in complaining about people not posting, try to give someone constuctive crits in here as well as posting your own stuff, and they'll probably check in on ya.
I posted a WIP couple of days ago, and I've gotten a few replys, and they're all valuable!
Don't get me wrong, I definately think there could be more action on this particular subforum, but it's not a bad thing that it's here. Nor do I see at as elitist, I mean.. I don't expect to get my oils hanging next to professional artist out there... at least not yet ;)

Only thing I miss is the pros and mods giving more critiques.. DSIllustration came by my latest thread, so I'm not complaining, but the initial idea was (I think) that the mods were going to be active here as well, no?

On the matter of this being a sub-forum named as it is named, I don't see the problem. If it's a matter of someones ego that it should be renamed and moved, it's for the wrong reasons. We have to put our egos aside, and focus on what's important; improving our art. That, at least for me, is one of the major reasons I'm here. CA has helped me alot, I've progressed way faster than I would have on my own! :yayca:

This, I made shortly after joining CA:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/dCepT/PrebGamer.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/dCepT/2dpics/Immortal5.jpg

And here is some recent stuff.. thanks to all of you guys at CA!!:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/dCepT/27_02_05.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/dCepT/23_03_05_5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/dCepT/2dpics/Horror11.jpg

just my two cents

d-CepT

[WithTeeth]

We are listening to the community and making some changes. There has been much discussion about the need for a place for BEGINNERS and other artists who would like to share their work and learn amongst other SIMILAR levels of artists. In order to be able to give more appropriate critiques and focused teaching for those who need it most, we have created this section.

This section will be moderated by none other than SPARTH and will be given specific and new tutorials in order to help support it. We are going to focus on the BASICS and focus on helping you and each other.

PLEASE DO NOT BE OFFENDED if your work gets moved in here. If it does, it is a boon for you because you will be able to focus on your work and get crits of a more specific level.

The new site is going up soon and there is a very specific structure. If you work hard you can literally move from here all the way up to the main page. I will have more details on this soon.

Please bear with us and help support this most important section. Afterall, not long ago I was the BEGINNER of BEGINNERS and I needed as much assistance as possible. This is where that will happen for you!


Thank you,


Jason Manley

I'm sorry, but I don't think this is cool. I don't want comments from "SIMILER" levels of artists. Why do you think I went to school to have a PROFESSIONAL teach me? Why do you think I come to this site? To have people who have better skills guide me.

I'm offended that I am considered a "beginner". I have been drawing all my life, went to school for art and work in the industry. Does that sound like a beginner? I'm not being modest, but I think my drawings are good, my vector not bad, and anything outside of painting and 3D is ok to.

Telling me not to get offended is a bit strange. Why do you anticipate people getting offended? Is it because you know that people are going to get upset when someone decides their work is not good enough to be in any other section?

Let's be real, here. All the regulars are going to see that a particular thread was moved to this section and never bother to open or reply. The people whose work gets moved here consitently will leave this site and all that will be left are the ones with 200+ posts and ass-patting for all.

I have been a long-time lurker and a member a while back. I posted never got any replies (while "regulars" got ass-pat after ass-pat for their slight twist on an overdone mech model). I left sharpened my skills and came back under a new username hoping things were different....and guess what happens? I get moved here.

So, please tell me why this piece belongs here. What so "beginner" about it? Bad lineart? Bad layout? Bad colors? I know the painting sucks, but that's ok, because I don't know how to paint and I am not making an attempt to paint. Plus, in the real world, you don't have time to give a piece your all. I had 2 days, four colors to work with and other stuff to get done while working on this. I met the deadline, made my boss happy and made a decent piece of artwork. Most importantly, it's finished. So why was it moved from the "IT'S FINALLY FINISHED" thread?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/ryder75/superbowlredux.jpg

I know this will piss people off, get flamed, shunned and possibly banned, but I felt it needed saying. Sorry to those I offend, but I got to stand by what I believe.

[razuel]

I'd call this a good idea, but art is so subjective that it makes this a very hard thing to do.

Oh, and I agree with you withteeth-- that's a very good picture, I don't see how that's anything near beginner work.

Also, let me tell you why I think it's a good, and bad idea.

I just got a piece of work that took 30+ hours, won a gold key award in the scholastic art and writing awards-- and it was moved to the beginners section.

I love this idea, but you need to more clearly define beginner work, or change the name of the forum from FINISHED WORK (polished blah blah) to EXTREMELY AMAZING PROFESSIONAL WORK.

"Art in this forum should be finalized and well presented. NO doodles or quick sketches"

You're moving artwork that is put there, that follows those guidelines, into a section that you describe as

"place for beginners and other artists who would like to share their work and learn amongst other similar levels of artists"

I wouldn't consider my work anywhere near professional, but it's definitely nowhere near beginner either... atleast that piece.

Blah I keep editing this because I keep thinking of more..
Let me sum this up.. what I'm trying to say is--

The way you have it now, you'll just keep having to move artwork that aren't up to your standards of 'finished and polished' , but are to that artist. So if you want to do this, I recommend locking the Finished work forum and only letting professionals post there-- because it seems to me that's the only work you want in there.

[hariz_otaku87]

Well, Im 69.35% with you guys. Though I still am a beginner and a newbie, I still see these kind of problems. And can you guys be alil bit gentler. I know Im all new and that and need to learn more and have been keep trying to catch up with you guys but, well, let just say its hard to catch up. I dont know. Probably the replies or probably me and my bad attitude. Im not accusing you guys though.

[willpaxton]

Yea i dont know if i like the idea but well see.

[el norteno]

u cant please everyone, dont stress yourself trying to.To everyone here on ca: best of luck with your art :yayca:

[aeoxo]

I am lifetime artist... I really thought and still think that I am above beginner's status. But when you compare my serious efforts with the output in this place, a modicum of humility is required.

Plainly, I am so impressed with the Moderator's work that I will TRUST THEIR JUDGEMENT enough to let them move my work here if they deem it fit...

I would just ask that those that move the work give a critique (if possible, time constraints and all) so that we BENEFIT from being moved. I want critiques, I want comments, and I want direction, and that's just what this place is for.

So, thanx for the oppurtunities and I hope that people can come to be alil more appreciative of the Moderators. You guys are doing a great job, and I look forward to the new changes to CA.

R

[dorian]

just read through all of this. ahm, it's a while ago but I think the problems are still here?
I think it's a good idea, but probably hard to really make it work. in the end IT'S UP TO EVERY SINGLE MEMBER to post comments and crits and not only post work and sit down and wait for others to write something. very crucial.


I think what razuel said is important:

"IT'S FINALLY FINISHED
Art in this forum should be finalized and well presented. NO doodles or quick sketches"

You're moving artwork that is put there, that follows those guidelines, into a section that you describe as

"place for beginners and other artists who would like to share their work and learn amongst other similar levels of artists"
this probably offends some more established artists, like we see from some comments in this thread.



The way you have it now, you'll just keep having to move artwork that isn't up to your standards of 'finished and polished' , but are to that artist. So if you want to do this, I recommend locking the Finished work forum and only letting professionals post there-- because it seems to me that's the only work you want in there.
I think this section would be some sort of showcase, which already exists on the front page!
And I don't think the ca team wants this kind of elitist separation. of course it's cool to have a forum with only extra-sexy work, but this would be a whole other idea/concept for this website/community. as jason said before: less "ooh!" and "aah!" but more learning instead. the "WOW!" stuff is still there, (and lots of very yummy stuff :)) - at the intro-page.


I suggest that the sub-forum "Helpful Critiques: CAorg foundation program" should be moved away from its parent "SKETCHES & WORKS IN PROGRESS".
The learning aspect of this area should be stressed.


What I ask myself is: is it really necessary to create a special area where there is an extra amount of crits & comments? shouldn't there be a lot of critique in ANY thread that features someones work? (except threads where the autor marks that he/she doesn't want any crits, for whatever reasons).
well I guess that's what most of us wish, everybody posting the best critiques they can come up with, everybody helping everybody else to grow. believing that this ever comes true is probably illusionary, and it doesn't help to encourage the members again and again to post crits, too. maybe a special area like this brings some attention to this fundemantal idea. if it works, most people might change to posting here instead of the sketches and wip section.
blabla. I wrote too much, sorry :rolleyes:

.

[ryanwh]

This does kind of make the Finished section seem more like a showcase. I always feel like there's room for improvement, even when something is very well recieved, so should I just never post in the finished section? I guess it seems like the intention of the forum isnt all that clear, I really really dont get why something like this (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=47269) would be here. If I were that guy who posted that, and was new, and saw my well received presumedly finished work moved to a section where the picture before and after mine were of a significantly lower quality, Id be remiss to post here anymore and dutibly a little offended.
It probably wouldnt be a problem if pictures moved came with a word or two from the mod doing it, however.

[dorian]

I guess it was moved to "helpful critiques" because smithrc wrote "New to CA. Please crit my piece." in the title of the thread. as said, it's not that clear what belongs where.

jason?

(btw. man, I want to say a big THANK YOU, this website surely causes LOTS of work for you, besides all the other stuff you do with massive black etc. I think you're doing a great job here, it ain't easy to steer a ship of that size :))


.

[onionface]

Hi

Man I feel sorry for you mod's.
People ask for things then complain when changes happen.
granted the people that are complaining are probably not the people that asked for the new section. Perhaps all these titbits can be explained upon joining CA. That way if anyone complains you can just send em a blunt responce " read the rules".
Anyway anyone who complains obviously doesn't understand the amount of effort and time you guys put into this place. And a lot of them seem to be answering their own questions.

eg: "I know my picture wasn't good but why did you move it to this other section?" (they just admitted their picture may not have been up to scratch.)

My pal explained the workings of CA to me before I joined, but perhaps a rundown of the operation of the site may be good for newbies.

chow

[ryanwh]

so dorian, what you're saying is that peices in the finished section shouldnt be critiqued at all? Only post it there if you're an egomaniac unwilling to accept that your peice could use improvement in any way? I still dont understand. I thought that " Please crit my piece" was implied with everything posted here. I'll shut up though cus I get what you mean, my point is that moving that peice to here DIDNT give him more helpful critiques(it just sank to the bottom), whereas, left in the finished section, it would likely have 30+ helpful replies right now. Dont get me wrong, I understand the intention. But this section is practically hidden in another section, which makes it feel like the intention is more to "weedle out sub par work so the finished section looks better". Its this preconception that keeps people from checking this section out as often, as they assume the work here will always not be as good as what's seen in the finished section, but that's clearly not always the case. Id think a section with this intention would be on the main forum page, is all, since in theory most people post at an art forum to get precisely what this section was made to give out.
So yeah I'll shut up, that's just how I saw it.

[IceMoon]

I think alot more pieces should be moved to this place, also pieces from the sketches section. Just to get this place more populated. Right now there aren't enough people. Once this place is more populated more people will post here out of themselves instead of their pieces being moved from the finished section. I say make it a stand alone forum for all your critiques. It will breeze more life into this area. The name Critique Center makes it for all people not just noobs thats better then the last name IMO. Now all it needs is more publicity.

Anyway that's my longterm thinking plan about this area :bashful: .

[dorian]

ryanwh: you got me wrong there ;) I said that the ca team probably does NOT want a "showcase"-sort of forum and I wrote "is it really necessary to create a special area where there is an extra amount of crits & comments? shouldn't there be a lot of critique in ANY thread that features someones work?"

guess I really wrote too much, and probably used some words that don't fit very well, sorry :bashful:

[Elwell]

As you can see, the title of this section has been slightly changed. Now it is simply the Critique Center. Hopefully this will remove some of the stigma of it being a place only for "noob art". No matter what your skill level, if you have a piece that you have particular issues with, or are just unsure whether it's actually finished or not, post it here.

[dorian]

yeah just noticed the change, good thing, thanks!

[P Hallin]

Just a thought that worries me a little: The line between good and bad and finished and "I'm not sure if it's finished" is very fine.There is a danger on this forum that good, finished, professional art is a specific looking concept. And that the artists that dwell here gets pushed towards "sameyness" (in a lack of a better word). It gets mesured in our eyes to things we have seen before. And by moving things that are "on the edge", so to speak, could help this type of thinking. For example: My girlfriend can look at a piece of art I find fabulous, and she says "No, too many details. Sure, he worked three days on this, but he shold stopped after a half day, then it would be great". But here, that might have been considered sub-standard or unfinished.
Not a complaint, just something to think about. Nobody wants to do another glossy fantasy-scene that Lois Royo (or someone) already done many times over.
Oh, and another quick thing. Professional means that you get paid for what you do in some way or extent. Not how the art looks.

[mosskat]

oh! i hope my stuff gets moved here ^^ - i'll post in here from now on then shall I? =3

[tttia]

Part of any endeavor is to see how things are going over time. While I think the initial roll our of this board was promising things have changed a bit now.

There are currently 8 people viewing this board, while there are 98 viewing the Finally Finished work. Not only that, but in the times mine were moved, I got more replies AND better critiques while it was on the Finally Finished board.

I will say that I appreciate the concept of a board where people specifically are looking for more critiques. But I think at this point this board is functionally not a place for more critiques but a place to send the clutter to.

It is natural to want to please those artists who were tired of junk in the finally finished board. But to insist that we will get better critiques here doesn't seem to fit the current facts. I think you hoped it would over time, but it is not. Anytime you expect people to do a chore...and critiquing some of our work in this forum doubtless is a chore... you know that they will eventualy get tired of it, even if they enjoy it in some way.

Perhaps a solution could be considered which would allow all the works to be in the main page, but for people to be able to tell which are worth looking at. Some sites us a preview image for this purpose. Then those who want to give critiques could if the mood strikes them, but they wouldn't have to go to a totally different place to do it.

I guess what is really at question here is which will be at the forefront? Highlighting talented artists, or training learning artists. Both are being done here, but the focus will determine what happens with the board.

Clearly right now the focus seems to be on highlighting talented artists.

Part of any sites staying power is its ability to take people into the community. And I think that this particular forum (critique center) might not be serving its original purpose, and it might be hurting that perception of a welcoming community. For my own part, I know I have a lot of learning to do. I try to stay humble. But I still must confess that when my stuff gets moved, and I see basically only pro level stuff there that it is a bit discouraging. I am a hobbyist and don't really know if I will ever reach that level. But I still enjoy showing my work to those who might be interested.

Either way I appreciate what you are doing with this site. There is some good information here.

[P Hallin]

I agree with previous poster. Well spoken.

[tttia]

Note: this post should have followed Madster's, but it was posted during the board glitch.


I doubt there will ever be the audience in WIPS and Critiques that there is elsewhere, nor necessarily should there be. Finally Finished works simply look better as a whole, than the works moved here. That's the mod's job, and I think it's being handled quite well.

I agree there won't be as many views. But some of the arguments to that effect were deflected earlier based on the large numbers at the outset of the board when it was a novelty.

The point is the main reason now for this board IS to weed out the junk so people don't have to look at it. That is fine if that is really the direction the board wants to go. But that doesn't seem like the original stated intent which was to foster both learners and pros.

There are two ways to look at it.

1. What was hoped for this board ultimately did not come to pass.

2. What was hoped for this board did come to pass, but it was not quite what was initially said.

I think number one is more likely. But by your comments I would assume you are banking on number 2.
__________________

[madster]

Oh, and another quick thing. Professional means that you get paid for what you do in some way or extent. Not how the art looks.One definition, yes. But, that is a sub-definition of a definition for "professional," From Mirriam-Webster.com:
(2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs.

Part of the reason Finally Finished is more viewed, is specifically because the works ARE held to a bit higher Standard of Presentation. If you read Jason's sticky about how important individuals from all walks of the industry peruse this site, you will understand that these are the people who will contact a member whose style or technique may fit a need they have.
These are not the types of people who should have to sift through works that are less than "presentation quality." Yes, some "talents" here may post things that are not as good as stuff that gets moved, but part of that is simply that they have "paid their dues," with enough good works that grace is given them if a particular one is not a "masterpiece."

More members are becoming involved in critiques, and more are learning that "I think it's awesome," does not really qualify as a critique. Works moved often weed out those who want to learn and improve, from those who's ego as an artist far outshadows their technical skills.

I doubt there will ever be the audience in WIPS and Critiques that there is elsewhere, nor necessarily should there be. Finally Finished works simply look better as a whole, than the works moved here. That's the mod's job, and I think it's being handled quite well.

~M