Soviet Propaganda Project

[CCCP-DeLux]

Hey everyone, I'm enjoying the new layout so far... but I miss having an avatar :( .

Here's a quick sketch I did. I was seeing if I could make a decent concept for the layout of a propaganda poster. The stuff always intrigued me so I got a photo reference or two and sketched out something spiffy.

I'm going to load this up in an editing program (not sure which one I'm going to go with yet) and start work on the next draft of it, hopefully just drawing on a layer above the original so I can use it as a direct reference nondestructively.

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v74/CCCP-DeLux/Sketches/Propaganda1.jpg
I will hopefully be able to design a creative, yet not eye-catching, background to put behind the major components which are shown here so as to liven it up and make it feel more complete.

C&C are welcome, and indeed desired ;)

[CCCP-DeLux]

No comments? Heh... that's O.K. I expected that might happen.

Either this just isn't your forte or this version is a bit too early and unfinished to comment.

Either way I understand, this is no masterpeice by a LONG shot, It's actually just turned into a practice session in photoshop 7 for me. (I was able to sweet talk a freind into selling me his copy of photoshop :cat; )

I've imported the original sketch art into photoshop and I then made a set of clean, straighter lines over all the outlines, and using a lighter weight of line, outlined the different shading regions. I promised myself I wouldn't use any gradients in this (it's just really really unprofessional in my opinion) so I'm going to see how well I can get an honestly attractive value range in it using only my mouse and my creativity.

If any of you have some tips on using Photoshop 7, now would be a great time to comment.

Ahead of time I want to thank all of you on CA.com for the feedback you have given me in the past, this is overall a very helpful and courteous forum, and it makes me feel proud to be somewhat a part of it, despite my fledgling artistic skill.

Here is my progress so far (this is my first time doing this sort of work on the PC, and my first time using Photoshop.):
http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v74/CCCP-DeLux/Propaganda/Poster_Draft_I.jpg
Please, don't go easy on me just because I'm only learning. I'm more than happy to get agressive criticisms... I need that sort of input in order to learn how to do better quality work.

[CCCP-DeLux]

Nobody seems to have commented... not even to just to flame me for putting this up :p .

Took me a long time before I had enough free-time to start working on this again. I managed to get all the foreground objects colored in a webcomic style... basic technicolor look so far. I'm going to add a background (relax... it won't be a gradient or other lazy photoshop trick.) later on, maybe last step. For now, I'm going to work on adding a range of value to the colors here, and then filling in some details such as the hairs on Lenin, folds and such on the soviet flag, I'll attempt some metal effects on the title text, possibly some dings/scratches on the soldier's helmet, and some details of the thus-far nondescript artillery gun.

Here is progress so far, it looks like technicolor :grumble:
http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v74/CCCP-DeLux/Propaganda/Poster_Colorized.jpg

Kind of makes me wish I had painter, or at least a WACOM Tablet.

[CCCP-DeLux]

I suppose nobody feels moved to give me any feedback. I'd really like to know if I'm doing allright for a PS newbie. I'm very curious about how I should be using layer blending and such for their affects... I'm not even quite sure of the best way to be making shadows and lighting.

I'm downright stumped as to what I can do with this thing next, the background isn't final... just a gradient I added to help give it more feel until I slop a real one together.

If you've got any ideas of what I should try with this please tell me... I'm stuck and can't think of anything more I can do at my level of technical knowhow.

here's the image thus far:
http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v74/CCCP-DeLux/Propaganda/Progress.jpg

[jetpack42]

color obviously has you (and me) stumped at the moment. You're just blocking things in with a relative hue. I'd say try working out the forms in black and white first, just to get some value and shape. I'd suggest doing it with a pencil. Do it about 1,000 times, and then try this again. I can't tell you any shortcut to make this look good, I couldn't do it myself. Practice with a pencil pays off though, and understanding the basics is how to build up to the goal you are trying to reach now.

[Erik]

If you look at some real propaganda posters from early soviet days, you'll find that they would never have been printed in such colors. Multicolor printing is quite hard and also expensive. They would probably have gone for red, black and possibly either a yellow or white.

Also the letters: to make it more authentic, i'd recommend either finding a good Cyrillic font to make them in photoshop, or spend a little more effort to have them all more regular. The soviets would probably have frowned on such unorderly display of individuality ;-) just a thought though.

The outlines for the figures are okay and i can see it's Lenin. If these would be rendered in a more 'soviet' style they would probably be ok!

To capture a certain historic mood it's very important to look at the available ref images on for instance images.google.com first and see what is their overall characteristic. After that you'll need to adapt it for your purpose of course!

ref #1 (http://www.internext.com.br/valois/pena/soviet.jpg)
ref #2 (http://stalingrad_1943.tripod.com/stalingrad/id3.html)

Good luck
E.

[spork891]

The composition of the image produces the disturbing impression that the soldier is pointing a gun at ?Lenin? up there.

[CCCP-DeLux]

Allright, nice to get some good feedback.

jetpack42
I think I will take to the original lines with a good pencil and work in a little more value. Since the last update I did manage to get a very good (almost photorealistic) effect of the flag flapping in the wind... which now looks absolutely atrocious with the lines around it's edges lol. But nonetheless I agree that it would be a good idea to do some experimenting with value prior to taking the color any further.

Erik
I will take in mind the input you gave me on the cyrillics and the color usage. I think I will go back and add the letters digitally as I allready do have a good cyrillic font installed. I'm also quite thankful for the reference links... that was above and beyond what I expected to get... very helpful indeed. Seeing as I'm now on summer vacation I think I'll spend some time studying the soviet style.

spork891
I hadn't thought about the composition thing... I can definitely see now that it would appear Lenin has a gun pointing at him, thankfully, this is digital so I can scale or move that artillery, I'll play with that a little bit. Thanks for pointing that out, indeed giving that impression would actually have detracted immensely from the overall feel of the image.

Thx everyone... you pointed me in a direction that I would probably have avoided otherwise... I think I'll just go back and do a major rework from an early stage of the image (thankfully I saved seperate phases of the photoshop version as seperate files)

[Elwell]

Composition? What composition? It looks like a bunch of elements randomly placed on the page with little or no thought as to how they relate to each other.

A strong composition is the foundation of any successful illustration, especially poster work, which has to read quickly and from a distance. Figure out what your dominant element is going to be, and what (if any) part the other elements are going to play to support and reenforce it.

The type is terrible. Good hand lettering is a skill in itself, and bad lettering is even more distracting than bad drawing. Either go all out and really try to do it right, or set it digitally.

A Google search for "Soviet posters" brings this (http://www.iisg.nl/exhibitions/chairman/sovintro.html) up as the first result. Check it out.

[CCCP-DeLux]

OK... I don't have an image update as of yet, I will work through tonight on some basics and will hopefully have a decent rework to submit for slaughter.

As for composition, I admit openly that I have never learned about composition. But, look at my avatar image: I'm not very old and have had only 1 year of art training, as an elective in high school, not very extensive.

Please, if you have anything you can teach me about composition I would be indebted to you for your contribution. You are all doing an immensely useful service by giving me this feedback. Even I am amazed by how helpul the input I've gotten from you all has been.

I went back to my version with just the line art, erased all the text, and added the appropriate text digitally. The title is in a shade of grey, and the other text is a light yellow. I am taking in mind the input I have received on the color scheme and will try to use a limited palette that would make more sense for mass printing.

I am going to do what I can to alter the style of the components, most likely going with a black/color shadowing w/ outlines, and the rest either another color or being transparent and having the background showing through.

As for the placement, I did actually give consideration to the placement of the items. The main focus of attention is the soviet flag, in a glorious pose. Lenin is intended to be looking upon it, with the soldier gazing forward as would be a soldier in an array of ranks being inspected as part of a vast group by Lenin. The artillery gun was a poor decision. my intent was to convey some power by its presence, but its size and position are totally wrong for that. Any suggestions are very very appreciated.

I do need more depth here, but it is I think too late for that, I will tackle that on later projects.

[Erik]

Dude

don;t start making excuses there's no need for that, it's not a personal attack or anything just a crit. Making excuses will only make you avoid seeing the truth.

I would seriously start with limiting yourself to only a few colors for thi piece. Why do you want to have two colors in the lines of text? It is unnecessary. Check the ref images and try to understand what they did to give emphasis on the text.

Please post your update and let's get this thing finished this weekend and move to the next challenge!

[CCCP-DeLux]

I went back over it and did a HUGE overhaul.

I went with a minimalist approach using a 2-color palette and for now I have a solid background, which I may or may not keep... I think it works for this but I might like to experiment with a little more texture in the background, what do you all think?

The 2-color approach I'm very satisfied with... I like the effect it gives.

Check out what I've got now:
http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v74/CCCP-DeLux/Propaganda/Minimalism.jpg

the slightly imbalanced placement, seems to draw the attention to the wrong area, not sure how to fix that to be honest. My eye keeps drifting to the big empty area to the lower left of the flagpole.

I may have to change the background color as well, I want the foreground to stand out against the background, and I don't know if using a shade of red in the background acheives that very well.

Sunday I will add the last touches to this and then declare it either finished product or junk... depending on how well it works out. Thanx everyone for your feedback. As for the comment on "excuses" ... I wasn't making excuses, although it did sound that way :emb: I was asking someone to tell me what exactly composition is, I have some idea of what it is from the context the word is used in, but I don't have a very good grasp of it.

Oh, BTW... it was really helpful to have several selections of music performed by the Red Army Choir playing while I was working on this.

[jasonarthur]

that's much better. I think you still need to work on faces (especially for the 7/8 up angle shot on the top head).

The color scheme plays a lot better than your original piece.

-- J

[inspector Lee]

Definitely a huge improvement, and interesting to watch it evolve. composition and color have both improved greatly, and I'd have to agree with the other comments-the drawing of the faces is the weakest part of this piece. It also kind of bugs me that the soldier's face is done with a "woodcut" look to it(totally appropriate for the image), while the other two elements aren't.

[CCCP-DeLux]

Thanx guys... I was pretty happy with the change myself.

I'd like to declare this a junk and just forget about it... but knowing me I'll have to go back and try the woodcut effect on the other elements, and try to balance the image a little. so I'm probably not done just yet, but I will drift off to some other projects for a while... I haven't finished an oil painting in ages... and there's one I have in progress.

Maybe a couple weeks from now this image will resurface, further refined.

If I may ask, what's the worst part of the facial elements? I do need practice with faces, it's been a long time since I did portrait practice so I need to talk a friend or two into posing for me to get some practice in, or I'll just do a photo from the web. I promise I will set aside some time to practice drawing faces though :teeth:

I will definitely have a little trouble converting the others to the same style as the soldier though, but that's the same problem I had when I went to minimalism, so I'll probably get over it ^^

[emperor_boy]

Huh.

For one, why is the lettering box at the top at a slant when it passes the flag?

Inserting the entire body of Lenin (his shoulders and such) would really improve the state of the image.

[spork891]

Yes, and what happened to Lenin's beard? I think it was there to begin with but has since disappeared

[CCCP-DeLux]

ugh... Lenin's torso... you're right that would have helped. I'll try to do that, but it's gonna be a long time. I'm on vacation on lake Shasta next week, and then I've got to spend a lot of time with a close friend who I haven't seen at all this summer, she's really special to me so that's a top priority. I will definitely try to make his body more present as soon as I can. This is a back-burner project right now though.

I started work on making the image better. I fixed the slant on the title bar and instead of having it turn upwards on the left, made it go straigh on to the edge for symmetry.

I started to try doing that "woodcut" thing on Lenin, but I think I have made the effect too small to show up when zoomed out, so I have to start over.

As for his beard, HUGE oops. I think what happened was: I had trouble at first so I procrastinated, and then I never got back to it. It will be a pain in the arse to add it in now... so I might just say he shaved it for laziness purposes, but I can try to add it in.

I'd like to ask again though, what precisely did I do wrong on Lenin's face? I certainly don't doubt that I made an error, but I can't see what it is.

The Recycle Bin is really starting to look like a good place to put this, but I won't give up quite yet. I do want to make this a finished product though, 1 or 2 friends say they'd like to use this as a desktop wallpaper lol.

[Woodrodius]

"Floating heads" are a big fopa my friend. You need to figure a way to tie Lenin into the background. He's tiny and detached right now, so if this propaganda is attempting to glorify him, it's failing. You need to make him look large and powerful, so try an angle that puts the viewer looking upwards at him.

[Erik]

What is the propaganda about?

Is the russian text serious or made up? If the poster has true meaning it may help in compositing the elements in a better way. If it has no meaning, i suggest you make one up!

Then proceed by getting the most direct reactions. If Lenin is glorified he should look bigger and more important than the soldier.

He probably is a visionary, looking towards the horizon, maybe making a crowd-manipulating gesture

The soldier is determined, etc.

E.