Don't tell us your art is Bad!

[Corvus Corax]

Hello Everyone
I've seen many ppl talk a/b how much of a novice they are and how much their art "sux"
yet all of them are better than me :)

Some ppl need to just chill out,
I don't have a big ego, but i don't go around saying my art sux
Even though my drawings display no obvious techniques
and have an overall value which is 10 times worse than the average person here.

I might be one of the "worst" at drawing here,
but that doesn't make me a bad artist,
it's just the fact that most of us are so freakishley good :)

I've liked drawing the human face,
and I wanted to be able to draw a female face from memory,
I wanted to do this so that I could come up with fictional characters,
which is something I highly enjoy.
I'll show you one of the worst pictures that i could find
which shows some of my first attempts
at drawing the female face from memory.
This was from only 6 months ago.
a few of my Earliest Sketches(from my mind) (http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v237/DanielMock/img123.jpg)

I took some art classes in middle school, but have forgotten every thing that was taught to me, so if you have any tips, that would be great :)

One of my latest sketches(under the category of things strictly from my mind) (http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v237/DanielMock/_Kane_.jpg)

After i get some things organized
i will set up a thread with a bunch of my stuff...

And just remember, the next time you think of calling yourself a newb,
just think a/b my first sketches or even your own earliest sketches.
don't compare your ability to others',
just analyze the improvments you have made.

Chow ppl :)

[AnarchyAo2]

I think its good that people have bad egos. It makes you that much more determined to be better. Thats how I am, I think I'm bad so I want to try to be better. Some people aren't even concerned about being a good artist. If I didn't want art to be my profession I wouldn't be so concerned with being better. I'd just want to express myself through drawing.

[Helzer]

I would have to disagree. It bothers me to no end when artist degrade their own work. Someone might argue it's an inherent part of art in regards to such tragic figures as Van Gogh, Pollock, etc. However, their art is placed in the 'Fine Art' category and such personality extremities are almost encouraged, because it makes their work more appreciable.

With that said, I believe most here wish to pursue a commercial career in art. Specifically, concept game/movie/book art. In order to have some success in this realm, one should be confident in their work.

I remember at a game studio I once worked at, there was this one guy (artist) that consistently requested critiques from fellow artists. He had this nagging habit of degrading his work upon presentation. Most of us, chalked this up to insecurity, low self-esteem, etc., and showed a level of empathy for a few weeks. However, after a several months it got old. Extremely old. It's just not professional. It's amateur talk. I can't imagine a doctor, lawyer, dentist, heavy equipment operator telling everyone 'how much they suck' before performing their job.

Sure, an artist can be critical of their work. However, they don't need to piss on themselves to make a point. Being constructive and professional is just as important to a commercial artist as learning anatomy and perspective.

my 2cents.

[Uinku]

I hate it when artists say their work sucks. It gives me the impression that they're fishing for compliments. Being modest is OK, but saying your art sucks only makes YOU feel bad, why do you even post drawings if you think they suck? (exept when you're asking for crits ofcourse).

[Corvus Corax]

Helzer:
I would have to agree in most everything you said.
But even if you are not looking for a solid career in art
it is still improper to degrade one's own art.
Especially if they are better than a lot of other people.

I would like to make another point:
If you're a good artist and you're saying your stuff "sux",
it is quite a self-centered thing to do,
imagine how "lower" artists feel about their own work
after you say something like that.

[CocoBeans]

Hmm.. I agree to a certain extend in that "good" artists degrading their own work makes those of us who are worse bad. However, I don't feel that it is entirely improper to degarde one's own art. I believe that as long as they don't say it sucks and just point out a few minor mistakes it's alright. Such as saying, "The shading's a bit off, but I still like it." but not, "Oh the shading's horrible, I really should trash this."

However, what I dislike is artists showing you their work and just complaining about how horrid it is. It's simply not logical, "You think it sucks, but your showing it to me anyways.", in such cases I believe they are only looking for praise, which annoys me to a great extent.

[The Iconoclast]

I write stuff like "crap" under specific drawings while I draw, but that's as far as my insults go. I don't think I'm fishing for compliments, though, because I sincerely think I could have drawn it a lot better. Besides, I only write that stuff about 2 or 3 of my sketches, so it's not that big of a deal, no?

:) :dork:

[AnarchyAo2]

There is a line between trying to get sympathy and having desirable goals. If you mope around telling people, "Aw, I suck. Do you think this sucks?", thats trying to be sympathy because what is the other person going to say? But, if you're like, "I really don't like what art I make, maybe if I work a bit harder I can become a better artist." There is nothing wrong with that. You're desiring something you crave and you're not going to be extremely happy with your products during that process. I'm this way, and when I try to draw a complex picture from my head, and it doesn't turn out so hot, I get modivated to learn more. Even though the picture may look good to other people, it doesn't meet up to my standards so I want to try harder. I doubt that I will ever get out of this mindset, because no matter how good you are, you will always desire to be better.

[Corvus Corax]

Hmm.. I agree to a certain extend in that "good" artists degrading their own work makes those of us who are worse bad. However, I don't feel that it is entirely improper to degarde one's own art. I believe that as long as they don't say it sucks and just point out a few minor mistakes it's alright. Such as saying, "The shading's a bit off, but I still like it." but not, "Oh the shading's horrible, I really should trash this."

Yes. I agree here also,
It's perfectly ok to point out certain issues in a piece,
But it's not ok to make improper generalizations.

I would like to also say that the point of this thread
is not to just rag on people who like to dis their art,
but to help out people who truly think poorly of their art.
I probably did a good job of that by showing my work. ;)
Do any of you think I should start a thread
in which you post your suckiest art?
Or would you like to just post it here?
Do any of you have the guts to do such a thing? :D

[hypocalvin]

I actually do think a lot of them are being modest. It may be a culture thing.
For example, in traditional Asian culture, when parents talk about their children to other people, they refer to their kids as "my little dog" or something that is degrading (this isn't limited to asian culture). The parent might really think that their child is great, but calling their child degrading names is standard--its an extreme form of cultural modesty.
An American like you or me might feel that these asians are desrepectful and are too modest. BUT these asians might also feel that American are too boastful, arrogant, and haughty when they praise their kids.
artists calling their work bad might just be used to saying their works sux. its a habit. i can see from your point of view, but i think its all just a habit thing. they might think that ur arrogant, and u might they are weird. just learn to understand each other points of views.

[The Iconoclast]

Do any of you think I should start a thread
in which you post your suckiest art?
Or would you like to just post it here?
Do any of you have the guts to do such a thing?

http://img24.photobucket.com/albums/v71/TheIconoclast31/sketches32.jpg

I posted that in my sketchbook thread. Saving old sketches is a great way to motivate yourself. I have certainly improved tremondously. :btu: There is always a light at the end of the tunnel.

[AnarchyAo2]

"I would like to make another point:
If you're a good artist and you're saying your stuff "sux",
it is quite a self-centered thing to do,
imagine how "lower" artists feel about their own work
after you say something like that. "

Oh god, people are too damn sensitive. Jeez, just realize that some people are better then you. Not everyone is made equal, and not everyone has equal opprotunities. If you are one of those people left behind by others who are better then you, do something about it, all you can do is try, and being so damn sensitive is your last problem.

I think this whole thread was hypocritical. You're like, "Don't say your work sucks, mine sucks more!".

[The Iconoclast]

I think this whole thread was hypocritical. You're like, "Don't say your work sucks, mine sucks more!".

I agree with that statement. I just found the idea of a thread to showcase older works an interesting idea. :googley:

[Corvus Corax]

I would like to make another point:
If you're a good artist and you're saying your stuff "sux",
it is quite a self-centered thing to do,
imagine how "lower" artists feel about their own work
after you say something like that.Oh god, people are too damn sensitive...
I'm not as sensitive as I might make it seem,
(or maybe... I am... :) )
i don't actually have this problem myself,
it's just that every time an artist disses himself, it makes you think...
"Jee, i wonder what he thinks a/b my art then."
I personally don't feel at all worse a/b my own art
when a more skillfull artist disses himself.
I just left that open incase there are somepeople who feel that way.

I think this whole thread was hypocritical. You're like, "Don't say your work sucks, mine sucks more!".
Actually your right, that's pretty much what i was saying.:)
I was hoping most of you would catch on to the idea
that you should post your earlier pieces.
The whole point of this thread was merely to open
this forum to a wider spectrum of artists(one's with different abilities).
I was just trying to help some ppl to feel less intimidated.
This wasn't even really meant to be a discussion.
I should have made that more clear, sorry.

Plz though, continue to show your earlier pieces
Thx for your imput _ Iconoclast :)

[el coro]

as a professional artist who degrades his work, i can say i do it because i am my own worst critic. thats how i learned. the minute you get comfortable with how you do things, you stop developing or become a one trick pony, both of which are bad in my opinion. im never fishing for compliments when i slander my work, its truly how i feel. of course there are limits. i dont call my coworkers in the room and talk down what i've done, and i do know when to stand by something i do, but i see my art almost entirely for its faults. dunno, i'd think that would lend alot of relatability to those just starting out. we all beat ourselves up about our works. im just not a cocky bastard who feels the need to hype myself up. and if i can offer one piece of advice for those starting out, you never get happy with your stuff. i tell people all the time that i hate just about everything i do, i just hate some less.-c36

[Uinku]

Note that I was not talking about criticising your own work, but letting another person see your art, and say it sucks. (Just saying in case I offended anyone ;))

And el coro: You don't need to fish for compliments, the compliments come to you ;P

[WillSchnevel]

And el coro: You don't need to fish for compliments, the compliments come to you ;P

And that's because he's critical of his work! By being unsatisfied, you always strive for the next best thing, which in turn helps you achieve higher levels in your artistic endeavours!

I think that's just about the best way to get better and any creative activity. I've done it all my life in all creative aspects. It's like sports i guess, you keep trying to best yourself to get higher up the ladder, or something like that. :cyclops:

[Helzer]

I think this is becoming a semantic issue.

First, "self-denigration" and "self-criticism" are different by mere definition.

The former destroys the validity of oneself, while the later evaluates the validity of oneself.

In that respect, artists rely on self-criticismto grow and evolve.

Sure, there are a segment of artists who degrade and belittle their own work. I few reasons I can think of might be considered:

1. Youth and inexperience. Example: Grade schooler wishes to someday become like some of the artists he/she idolizes on the board. Saying, "I suck" is sort of saying "I respect everyone's work on the board. You guys are great. I feel like I shouldn't have post this because I'm a beginner, but I really want to improve. Help me."

2. Those who have become experienced, but never broke the habit of the "I suck" introductory phrase.

3. Those who are experienced, but use degradation as a form of negative protectionism. For example: "Hello World, I SUCK!!! I said it first, therefore you can't hurt me as much."

4. Those who are experienced and are fishing for compliments, because they need constant validation to keep motivated.

For the most part (1) is forgivable. However, I think the seasoned artist(s) should encourage the beginner to be a little more descriptive and confident when they post. Example "I'm having issues with shading" instead of "This is weak, I suck, somebody kill me".

As for (2) it's just a symptom of number (1) that's never been corrected.

(3)(4) are a different matter. It's a form of neurosis.

[Corvus Corax]

Once again Helzer I agree with you.
I like the way you think,
You seem to look at all parts of the issue
and try to understand them.

I like the way the thread is going so far
so i will start a seperate thread to showcase your earlier works
to make us all feel better :)
I wonder how it will turn out?...