Art Education (pre-college)

[AnarchyAo2]

There is an obvious trend in middle school, and high school art classes accross our country. The teachers make the classes too easy. Why? To accomedate the less forunate students who cannot make art as well as other students. Why do the art departments have to give special privaledges to these students (Which is most of the "art students")? Most of the students in our art classes are not actual artists, nor do they care about improving their art ablilites. They are only in there because it is an easy A and they get to talk the whole time. And because of this, it is holding back the art students who actually want to make good use of their time in art class.
I have had art class every year since 6th grade. I have had 6 years of art classes since Middle School and have not learned one thing from my art teachers. Everything I have learned has come from my own experiences and by reading other artist's opinions. Now, many of you have seen the progress threads on this forum. You have seen MindCandyMan go from a first time drawer to an aspiring professional in a matter for 2 years. If something that great can be accomplished in 2 years, think about what can be accomplished in 6 years with the aid of a teacher who actually teaches? Many students would be working on a college level before they even get to college.
Here was my sylllabus for last year's Art Advanced I (There was nothing advanced about it, by the way).
1st 6-Weeks
-painting
2nd 6-Weeks
Watercolor
3rd 6-Weeks
Drawing
4th 6-Weeks
Etching
5th 6-Weeks
Pastels
6th 6-Weeks
Final Project, you choose mediums

We didn't learn anything about any of these mediums. We were given the materials and we went wild with them. Plus, the order they came is rediculous! Shouldn't drawing come first? Then etching, pastels, watercolor then painting? Why are we paying these people to "teach" us?
I don't even try in my art classes, there is no point. I'm always telling my teacher that I don't even try. That she hasn't even seen my best artwork because I don't try in school, because if I was to do my best I would get the same grade as people who don't even try or care.
We also have National Art Honors Society. That whole club is bullshit. The president isn't even an artist. She is one of those uppiety bitches who signs up for every club possible so she can put it on her resume. Why do you even need a president for NAHS? Do you need a leader to make good art? Here at the forums, we're basically a club and we dont' assign one person as the leader, its not nessesary because we're here to help each other out by giving advice, critiqueing and inspiring others to make great art.

I think we shouldn't even have pre-college art teachers. They should allow the acutal artists have a period where they work on their own. If we all decided to paint, we should paint. If we decided that we need to learn more about anatomy, we should have the school buy us some books on anatomy. Because, if a group of artists come together, they will take art seriously, they will help each other out and there will be positive results. We should fire the teachers and spend the extra money on art supplies and books.

Does anyone agree? Or do you guys have ACTUAL teachers that teach you?

[RefrigeratorCo]

You get what you put into it.

A lot of that stuff will help you out when you hit college level.

If something is boring make it fun with your creative artisticness.

Yeah, that's all the advice I can give to you. But if you hate it that bad why don't you just quit them and do your own work?

[AnarchyAo2]

Well, I'd like to get into a art college, so taking art classes in high school would look good. Though, taking the class should mean more then "just taking it", I should get a little more out of it.

[SeraphSword]

Well like Refrig said, you get what you put into it. I don't see why you didn't try in class. Forget about the grades, if you had the materials and time provided for you, and you didn't try, you wasted time that you could have been improving. Don't obsess over how much they are teaching you, just try to get better on your own if they aren't helping. Look at your stuff, does it look like what you were trying to create, if not find the differences and try to improve. You mentioned MCM, most of what he was doing was primarily self-taught, not coming from art teachers (although I think I read he's going to an atelier now).

And the trend in schools isn't toward classes like this. The trend is the removal of art, music, and theater programs altogether. So don't take your opportunities for granted.

[sula_nebouxi]

While the whole "you get what you put into it" idea is right, the school has to offer *something* too. After all, that's what it's for right? Providing information for the student to do what they will. If the school really isn't teaching anything, then it's a failure. There's really no point in taking a class if there's no benefit of having a teacher that knows what they're doing and can help you along the way. Sure, you get time to play around with different kinds of mediums, but anyone can do that anytime.

I've expreienced this before. I had a figure drawing teacher who didn't really seem interested in anything anymore. We never learned anything. He never did anything. I know it's 90% practice but, I'm pretty sure you're a bad teacher when you avoid a direct question from a student.

Best thing you can do is help yourself while helping others. If your teachers aren't doing squat, talk to an administrator or student council (rumor was back in my high school the principal was a little...uneasy about the power our student council held :)). Tell them that you feel the class isn't up to par and you think it could be better. Maybe with a little luck, things could change for the better and it could benefit everyone(especially the ones who want to do art). Usually in public schools, if there's a budget cut, the arts are the first thing to go. Sad, really...maybe that's why the teachers aren't very good. They're probably disillusioned. I was lucky, I had a cool teacher and half the year we had a grad student from college teaching and she helped A LOT.

But yeah...basically, you just have to learn on your own for now. Maybe it'll change down the road. Or, you could go down to a local community college for some figure drawing sessions. It's cheap and you get the added benefits of a knowledgeable art teacher. If you want to get into an art college, take advantage of every resource possible. I'm actually glad to see that you want more out of a class. Most people I know would have been perfectly happy doing nothing in a class like yours. So...Cheers, and good luck with your art career.:chug:

[edit] just noticed seraph's reply. He's right, you should have done something in that class even though, as you said, your teacher was bad. Always try to improve yourself, don't worry about what's holding you back.

[AnarchyAo2]

I should have made the reason why I don't try clearer. See, when your around unmodivated people, you tend to become unmodivated. I play around with mediums all the time at home. And the materials I buy are good quality and I keep them in good condition. Plus, it is incrediabley hard to concentrate. There are nothing but idiots in the class, and their always yelling something dumb. Since the whole class was desprate to do nothing, a couple of kids would always yell out "CLEAN UP!, CLEAN UP!" Over, and over and over...it drove me insane. And when the teacher set up a still life, which was the one legit project we had the whole year, the kids were taking stuff from the still life and playing with it and shuffling it around while the people who wanted to actually draw it, were trying to draw it. Then when I turn it in and the lightsources are all messed up and everything is unproportional because I had to guess on some of the missing objects, I get a freaking C on it. She said that I didn't put enough effort into it. Well yeah, no shit I didn't put any effort into it, how am I supposed to? Plus, we can't play our CD players in class, but we can have the radio so I have to sit there and listen to all the kids in the class sing to rap ::cringes::. I can deal with drawing around people that are talking, and I can draw in the mall where it is loud, but that class just drove me crazy.

Plus, my art materials are a lot better then hers. I have conte, watercolors, pastels, watercolor pencils, graphite, charcoal, pen and ink (pen and nib also a regular ball point pen), and prismacolor pencils. Now, I'd rather not waste my time with crayola pencils from school, I'd rather go home and make something with quality materials. Plus, you do not need wonderful materials to teach BASIC drawing. All you need is paper, and a pencil. There is no excuse for not teaching drawing in school. If I were in charge of the art department in my county, I would have Basic Drawing I in 6th , Basic Drawing II 7th, and Advanced Drawing and Mixed Media in 8th grade. Middle School would be perfect for teaching those classes, because kids are just realizing what perspective is, and their minds are still young so they still learn new things easily. Now, wouldn't those 3 classes alone be a 300% improvement?

I think I am actually going to try next year, only because I have to work on a portfolio (which I will probably do most of it at home, but the teacher has a bunch of nice old vintage stuff that is good for still lifes).

[acuna_read]

You sound like I did in Secondary (equivalent to High) school. I use to complain etc, im only small so the bigger boys used to take some of my car piccies as well (it was that or the bruises :nopity:

Anyway, ive now realised that its just up to you, and theres resources everywhere. I live in London so whenver I can I visit one of the Tate's or the National gallery (or portrait). You can sit for hours just looking and taking notes. Ive stopped following art as a profession and am going into engineering design, yet I still visit the galleries whenever possible (or whenver its easy to bunk the trains :D ).

So basically, without sounding rude (though it does and is really) just get on with it (aMonty Python moment :p ).

The materials dont matter its about the artist, whats it about one of the guys who set this up, using pizza to paint (wonder how he got on with the girl? :D ). So there you go, Just do it (ive heard that before too ;) )

[Gory]

Man I'm actually posting more than once in a day. Congratulations.

Anyway...


Just because you're surrounded by disrespectful students doesn't mean that you should follow suit and blow off your assignments. Have a serious discussion with your teacher, you might find out that she knows more than she puts off.

Seriously, if you present yourself as a mature adult to the teacher she might give you special attention. That is, if you're willing to put the effort in.

You'd be surprised what some of your teachers know. I always learned more out of class than I did in class. This goes for all subjects actually.

edit- Doh I deleted an important part, it was about how other people are lazy making you lazy.

That's the worst excuse I've ever heard. I believe that being surrounded by motivated people does motivate you, however I don't think it works in reverse. If you're surrounded by unmotivated people stand up and be the best one out of them, and make a point of making them understand you're on top of things. Don't be self-defeating.

If people pick up the still life stand up and yell at them to put it back. Although this worked better for me being 6'2" and having a good threatening voice.

The point is don't let other people bring you down... Suck it up, find a way to fix the problem and continue with your studies.

[AnarchyAo2]

Gory, its not an excuse. Its an actual reason. I've tried making good art in class. I can't. The only good thing I've ever produced in art class was my "clothed figure" drawings. And that was because everyone, in class, participated. All the usually annoying girls wanted to model because they like attention, and the guys stared at them. Which, I don't care as long as I'm able to concentrate. And how is one person, that no one know about, going to turn the county's art education around to a good direction? Its not going to happen. I think the most gutsy decision our school board made last year was to limit us to 2 mayo packs per meal. So if I go to a school board meeting and read what I said here (only in a more professional manner), do you think they would listen? Before you say "Everyone can make a difference!", and I know you are, just ask yourself this. If you were on the school board, and you were not into art. And this kid comes to a meeting, demanding that the art department be improved, what would you do? Would you give a sac of money to do what he says, and make money cuts from the core classes? Or would you think, we've got an art department, teachers, and materials. What else does he want?! Because, by looking at our materials and the way the class is taught, the art department is there to keep us quiet and to have equality (in otherwords, if the farms get to have Ag class, then the artists need to have art class)

Also, you guys seem to feel like I'm being bullyed? No, I'm not bullyed. I'm fairly small (Near 6 foot), and I'm quiet but if someone does something to me then I'll do something back. Like, the only name I'm called, which is nothing personal, and its become more of a nickname, and "Carrot Top", because I have red hair. Oooh wow, bad huh? :rolleyes:

"If you're surrounded by unmotivated people stand up and be the best one out of them, and make a point of making them understand you're on top of things."
Ha ha, the sad thing is that I don't even try and I'm still the best in certain areas.

"Have a serious discussion with your teacher, you might find out that she knows more than she puts off."
Shouldn't she be teaching us to her fullest? If she isn't, then she REALLY needs to be fired. I shouldn't have to beg her to teach me, we pay her enough already.

[acuna_read]

No-one said you got bullied, mine was an exxageration/over emphasios anyway.

Just work hard on your own and ignore the others then.

Once you leave school it gets harder to do your own thing so youd better start learning quick.

If the teacher doesnt take the initiative then perhaps you need to, if you dont then what happens? Nothing it sounds like.

And another thing, play the game dont fight the system, thats my personal view anyway. By that I mean work within their (however stupid & opressive) rules. Just do what you can inside them to get your best grade, then work outside on your own (as you are doing) to improve yourself.;)

[AnarchyAo2]

I guess when you think about it, being all pissed off about this can only lead to more ideas for my work. And for be to be more self determined. Also, learning my own experience is probably a better way to learn.

[kennygeeze]

I recall my art class in highschool.... and especially my graduating year I would have huge arguments with the teacher over basically... everything.

Essentially it was a situation of a teacher noticing my detachment to my work and getting angry at me to express myself, however I had a class full of people I was definitely not comfortable around.

Aside from that my situation was somewhat similiar to what you're going through. I thought the art classes in highschool were constructed extremely poorly and I wasn't getting anything out of them. Any hint of representational art training stopped after the first week in grade 9.

During my final semester when I took art I coasted through most of the assignments and spent my time drawing other things. While being asked to do an expressionistic painting in class... I would bag class and draw a realistic portrait of a friend in the cafeteria.

At the end of the year I showed her all the stuff I did on my free-time and she gave 90% on my final project even though I did not attempt the actual assignment.

I'm not saying follow in my footsteps or anything.... but my suggestion is if your class work isn't near your best work bring in a small portfolio of stuff that is and show her what you're capable of. Right now she just might think you're all talk or something.

As far as the still life is concerned do one at home and bring it in to show to her. She might not change your mark, but every picture you draw helps you (which it what matters in the end)

If it's really that difficult to work in the classroom with all your class-mates then ask to work somewhere else. Even if it's out in the hall or whatever at a desk....

[WildSpruceMoose]

I took my high school art education quite seriously despite the obvious attempts at cuts by the school board. I was lucky to have awesome teachers for my 4 years, 5 semesters, of art classes. Most of my biggest lessons WERE self taught in my own time practising. I don't draw as much as I should/could I suppose, but my determination to learn art was better than most other students in my art classes I suppose.

In grade 12, I knew I was serious about art FOR SURE, so I worked almost entirely at home. I sketched during class and did paintings at home. I could listen to my music, and internalize my work. I know if I had worked at school my results wouldn't have been as desirable. Art education is what you make of it though, if your serious, show your serious and the teacher (if they are adept) will understand.

I'd hate to jump to conclusions but it sounds as if you may have some problems with authority Anarchy(ironic?). JUst because the teacher is a position of authority in your class, doesn't mean they are out to get you. Look at ken's post, his teacher turned out alright when they found out his serious attitude towards art. Good luck next year with portfolios etc. and if you don't already know, focusing on traditional media/subject matter and straying from fantasy and fiction work seems to be more widely accepted.

have a good one,
Pete

[AnarchyAo2]

I don't have big problems with authority, its just when people try to censor what I do because of personal reasons. Thats when I get mad. And my name AnarchyAo2 doesn't mean that I'm an anarchist. Anarchy is for the "Anarchy" in Anarchy Online, and AO means "Anarchy Online", and the 2 is there...because it just is. I don't think anyone is out to get me, its just teachers should put a little more effort into their job. I know if I was in her position, I would actually do work, and actually grade the art.

"Good luck next year with portfolios etc. and if you don't already know, focusing on traditional media/subject matter and straying from fantasy and fiction work seems to be more widely accepted"
Yep, I know. I'm planning on going outside and drawing. I'd like to go to the pool near by and draw there. Do you think its creepy to draw at the pool? Some people might think I'm a pervert...:confused:

[Gr8t100]

eh, forget what the others think. AO? was that the online sega dreamcast game with mic support voice chat? If so, that game kicked some massive as. Always liked using the alien's light vehicle more then anything else.

Just remember, that the line which seperates pride from cocky is extremly thin.

[WildSpruceMoose]

Anarchy was kidding about the name thing =P
I see where you are coming from as far as the teachers not doing their jobs, I suppose I was lucky to have such understanding teachers.

It was quite a rude awakening recieving my letter for one school saying to only put traditional subject matter in my portfolio. If I had known earlier I would have worked on option A which was a portfolio the applicant already has, over option B which I couldn't finish with the skill level required for entrance. Next year, next year!

Technically I think its creepy to draw people in a coffee shop or trainstop, but not perverted. You hear what coro does when people realize he's drawing them? He quickly looks at the person beside them and pretends he is drawing them instead. Best of luck to ya ;)

[Sly]

Anarchy, I was in a very similar situation as you are. until very recently, i was getting pissed at the art teacher for not teaching my class seriously. i had four lessons in a whole year i enjoyed because we were actually doing something i thought was constructive, that was portrait drawing and still-life. My grades suffered because i lost respect for my teacher, who in turn lost his respect for me.

this was a great lesson i've got to keep in mind for my senior year: your art teacher is the one who will give you the grade you need for college! and if your high school art grades are crap, you wont get into the college you want to! so play the tecaher's game, adhere to what they want from you. if somehting isn't the way you want it, negociate something realistic. Because the syllabus was very similar to yours, utter shit, i negociated working on my own projects while making sure i stuck to the assesment criteria and kept coming back to the teacher showing what i was doing and checking if it was ok. this way i was showing motivation not only for my art, but from the teacher's teaching style thus earning respect from my teacher.

in my class, 4 students out of 23 are actually considering a career in art, so realisticaly the teacher would try to satisfy the majority of students. if he can do so by being lazy by not satisfying everyone, but still the great majority, i can understand him! and i'm sure you know how hard it is to motivate someone lazy!

at first i complained about what were doing as a class telling my teacher it was a waste of time. this damaged me twice. i wasnt motivated of course, so i didnt do anything, and i lost respect from the person that ultimately has my future in art in their hands! and from what i've read, this is your situation...

so play the teacher's game even though you might not agree with their teaching syle. if the majority of the class is only in for the easy A, make sure your teacher knows that you're in for more! show that you are motivated by showing your work and negociating an adaption to your plan of what you want out of the course (be realistic though!)

respect is probably the most important thing with any teacher and especially art because it is very subjective. no matter how good my work is, if i'm in disrespect with a teacher GUARANTEED my grade will not be what it would be if i was respecting the teacher.

ive been repeating myself throughout this post, but i wont go back and edit it. ill leave it for emphasis.

[AnarchyAo2]

Heh, moose. I'm not joking about the name. Anarchy Online is a MMORPG that came out a few years ago. It most people thought it sucked real bad, so its the butt of most MMO jokes. Heres the link: Anarchy Online (http://www.funcom.com/games/ao/)

Sly: Yeah I know, I should just play by the school's rules. I've only got 1 year left and I may as well suck it up. I should probably do my best next year and take advantage of the mediums that are provided in class (even if they suck ass). Also, I'll want my art teacher to send in a letter of recommendation.

Also, I went outside to draw today, and I got really sunburned. My skin itches so freaking bad. Red hair kids are already pale and with my irish background, I'm not very sun friendly. Ouch... :cool:

[WildSpruceMoose]

Yeah, I vaguely remember hearing about that game. I was just trying to put an ironic joke at the start of my post. Apparently joking tones don't follow very well on the web. It wouldn't matter anyway I suppose my sense of humour is not what other people tend to have. (I'd laugh at a dog with a fluffy tale over finding my long lost twin too like Homer. Although my twin isn't long lost, he is around here ;)

[steve kim]

lol, this thread brings up a lot of old high school memories.

i think, 90% of art classes are gonna stink major poo. there's just no way around it. but it's still an opportunity to make art, and that should be taken advantage of. i mean if you can have 6th period to make art, or study geometry, which would you choose? make most of what you have.

that said, anarchy, sounds like you got a lotta high school angst there. nothing wrong with that i guess, just a part of growing up. but if you are serious about art you shouldn't care so much about what other people do and how the class is subpar and all those things that are really out of your control.

if you are REALLY tired of the hs deal, check out your local community colleges and enroll in some life drawing/painting classes. they are usually on a different level from hs stuff. you can also look at local ateliers and workshops and stuff like that. it will give you some perspective as to what you can expect from an art education. if i could do it all over again, i would have enrolled in local college classes during middle school and continued through high school. ah... wouldn't that have been nice....

so... anyway, just work hard and make art and stuff, no need for all the drama.

cheers!
steve