Insect battle

[manky83]

76435

Still getting to grips with creating good backgrounds and obviously the shadows suck.. that presents the biggest limitation thus far...


these two were created first on paper then rendered on the computer...

:chug:

[Janshi]

Interesting. The bg is somewhat bland, but its not important that much. However, the detail on the wasp thing is not very good. Where are the wing lines? Did you actually even use refs? ;) You dont have to stick detail to detail of a real insect, but keeping parts of them make it much better.

The scorpion is ok, but detail it in your painting some more. Mix the shadows and base colors better, they're distinct without good reason.

[manky83]

thanks for the tips.. I didnt use any visual refs for either.. just imagination and a blank page.. I have recently realised that scorpions look nothin at all like this. The heads are tiny and have like two eyes.. hell i was going for a cross between a horribly Mutated spider and a scorpion ok.. :)

yeah the background is only just a temporary solution.. definatley not what i wanted but I had just spent ages doing the wasp so i was tired..

Ive asked around about good backgrounds, & im still thinking about options aswell.. maybe i could just paint it.. the problem arises trying to get them looking like they'll fit togeather.

I was having heaps of trouble getting the two insects to look like they were in the same pic.. lolz

[Red_Rook]

Oblio
MANKY83 - my advice is to leave this Finished Area for about one year and find yourself some friends in the Life Drawing Section.
We will be happy to assist you in your progress.
You want a good advice? If you want to do art - delete photoshop from your computer and check back on it after some more time, ok?

Listen to the man, seriously. Get rid of freekin photoshop, you so dont need it, infact right now its damaging you. Seriously Get a pencil and a piece of paper, and DRAW FROM LIFE. Then post them in the life drawing section. I hate to burst your bubble, but at this stage your not drawing. Jesus you could be, its not that hard, but your certainly not going to get there using photoshop filters. Infact I challenge you to pick up a pencil, go to the mall or a caffee and just draw people. Seriously, your first ones will look like shit, hell mine did. But you will get better. Now stay the fuck away from photoshop, get yerself a pencil and a sketchbook, and start to draw everything you see. This advice has been repeated so many times on ca.org its not even funny. But it WORKS.

Listen to Oblio he is what you might call, a WISE CA MONKEY, he knows what hes talking about.
Seriously I suggest starting a daily sketchbook, and acctually keeping it regular. And for gods sake no more photoshop for you, especially not int the daily sketchbook. Now go draw stuff, you dont need amazing materials to do it, just a burnt stick and bit of cardboard when it comes down to it. Draw what you see, not what you think you see, dont even worry about colours at the moment, focus on values and lighting. Read a bunch of tutorials, there are plenty good ones here on ca.

Now go draw with a pencil and paper.

[ken wong]

that's a great picture! here's some things to work on:

- anatomy
- color
- texture
- lighting
- composition
- linework
- gesture
- perspective
- character design
- environment design
- movement
- shading
- depth

uh... i might have forgotten something...

[Xavi]

If you wanna create a good background..then dont try to start in phoitoshop dude! You gotta draw these things out and then try to apply some basic colors to it if you wanna get some decent results (at least for a beginner)...cause Im probably mistaken about the exact name but it looks like you just used a "render clouds" filter in photoshop and bingo, you have "a background"
Work on shadows, motions, make the thing interesting to look at, give us something else other than a basic side shot, etc, etc

[Wetterschneider]

Yeah, I got to agree, and don't take this badly - there is nothing greater to see than an artist just strating out, who, through hard work and patience, becomes a skilled, experienced ninja. Turn off the computer, buy a block of the cheapest paper you can get your hands on and never stop drawing. Draw everything you see around you - you will never be wasting your time - piles of clothes, dishes on the table, people waiting in line, your friends and family, your feet, your left/right hand, your pets. There are other sections way more suitable for your posting than "finished" - use them, it'll help people relate to your work.

[I0N]

first I'd like to give you props on posting your art. some people are just too scared to show their stuff. its good to see that you came too the forums looking for the help you need. but the second step is to listen to the advice. I don't know about you but I'm going to listen to red rook and just draw from life for awhile, it can only help...besides I need to get out more:D

[SaIiLdVaEnR]

Scorpions have 8 eyes in three different places, not two.


Aidan

[Zwalharulzuki]

I don't want to sound mean, but this is laughably bad, man. Like the others have said, you need to sharpen your basics and draw from life. Photoshop is a tool that EXTENDS your abilities, not a crutch to lean on when your abilities are crippled.

So start over and rethink yourself, as a novice artist. It'll do you good.

[manky83]

thanks for all the feedback... It has been good to get some constructive critisim. Ive been redrawing the fight scene so that they are more engaged/detailed I will post this in the sketches forum when I have worked on it further..

Im well aware that Im at the bottom of a big ladder.. this is only my 4th attempt at rendering lineart... so be nice,

There's definitely more to be learnt... Also, the quality will improve once I can get hold of a tablet!!!

[Xavi]

tablet? no man, that would mean that you would learn yet anpother tool halfway bad before you ever got good with anything before it!
please please please, forget any computer application, those are only tools to make something that is already good, better. Never the other way around.
My advice, which may or may not be right, is to just stick to drawing on paper, do it over and over again for the next year until people start asking "cool, when are you gonna color it?"
forget about the tablet for now ;)

[davpunk]

The members here are correct. If you study the incredible artists on this forum they all have something in common. Its their skills as a 2d artist. They do not rely on photoshop or a tablet. all their skill comes from foundation-meaning life drawing, painting, color theory, etc. One thing that you should ALWAYS use is reference-the pros do it too. If you want any image to look photo-real, you cant use your imagination, you have to base it off of reality. Study Life drawing. Start there.

[Red_Rook]

Originally posted by manky83
thanks for all the feedback... It has been good to get some constructive critisim. Ive been redrawing the fight scene so that they are more engaged/detailed I will post this in the sketches forum when I have worked on it further..

Im well aware that Im at the bottom of a big ladder.. this is only my 4th attempt at rendering lineart... so be nice,

There's definitely more to be learnt... Also, the quality will improve once I can get hold of a tablet!!!

KID DO YOU FREAKING SPEAK ENGLISH?

get the FUCK away from photoshop

NO TABLET FOR YOU, seriously you are damaging yourself with photoshop. STAY AWAY FROM IT. get a pencil and some newsprint, the cheapest crappiesnt stuff you can find, the backs of envelopes, napkins anything. GET AWAY FROM DIGITAL, render stuff with a pencil. PENCIL goddamit, PS is only hurting you. Why dont you listen. Some of the people that have replied to your threads are some o the biggest pros in the industry ok, they know what there talking about and obviously know alot more then you. Ask em and they will tell you to go with a pencil and paper. Dont buy a tablet, get a scanner then start drawing by hand. To be really honest you dont have the faintest clue what your doing, and these people are trying to help you, LISTEN TO THEM!!

Dont try and render line art in photoshop, when you cant even do the line art. Learn to do the lines first. The learn about Value and Light. ANATOMY IS A MUST. Then practice your pencil rendering. Then start teaching yourself stuff about colour, get some traditional paints and see what happens when you mix them, see how they react, look at the old masters, once you got that down along with everything else ken mentioned. THEN AND ONLY THEN START GOING DIGITAL.

[jetpack42]

Red Rook, I'm gonna shake your hand in Texas.

*Hilarity ensues*

[manky83]

Originally posted by Red_Rook


KID DO YOU FREAKING SPEAK ENGLISH?

get the FUCK away from photoshop



because i choose to colour and shade in Photoshop dont assume that i cant do it on paper...

its my chosen medium;
its my choice;

[|NTeRN]

Originally posted by manky83


because i choose to colour and shade in Photoshop dont assume that i cant do it on paper...

its my chosen medium;
its my choice;

do yourslef a BIG favor and listen to these people. You need to learn the basics before jumping into photoshop and using a tablet. Grab some actual paper and a pencil and draw. these people are trying to help you out but all you are doing is blowing them of and hurting yourself.

[Arwar]

manky, these people are seriously giving you very very important advice. Computer art does NOT do a good job at helping you improve your art. Working with traditional media like pencil (for starters) really helps you propel yourself with your sense of texture, mark making, anatomy, composition, etc.
Starting on the computer is not letting you "skip the stupid stuff", it's only delaying your artistic development because you ARE going to have to go back to paper and pencil sooner or later if you really want to reach that level of greatness in your artwork. It's like trying to run before learning how to walk.
Take these people's advice seriously and leave photoshop alone for a while.

I do admire your desire to improve, but you're going about it the wrong way.

[winjer]

MAnky keep it up! This pic was super awesome i wish i could do that. Dont listen to these guys theyre just jealous and want you to not be a good artist. I think you should use painter too, and maybe illustrator. Thats the skill program. Definitely buy a tablet too. I bet itll make your art super good since you wont have to translate from paper to digital awesomeness.

P.S. I think you could spice it up a little more by using some more of the filters well. Hope you dont mind this example:

http://winjer.kicks-ass.net/insect_battle.jpg

See now you can tell that the scorpion has shiny eyes and claw and also the wasps stinger is shiny. Plus i added in a wormhole in the top left so now theres some backstory that the scorpion is from the future and that why its all mutated.

[strych9ine]

HELLLLLLLLLLLO! McFLYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!

I thought we covered this in this thread (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24425&highlight=manky83). You were even busted for copying artwork. Poorly.

because i choose to colour and shade in Photoshop dont assume that i cant do it on paper...

Ok, after you work on all of the traditional skills recommended in this thread, add "learn how to properly use Photoshop" to that list. Honestly, you aren't ready to "color and shade" in Photoshop.

Or, add a big fucking lens flare to the bee's stinger to make it look wicked.

[winjer]

[i]Originally posted by strych9ine

Or, add a big fucking lens flare to the bee's stinger to make it look wicked. [/B]

I Soo agree with you. How wicked is this. Its a wasp though.

[strych9ine]

Dude, that wormhole? Pure genius. I feel like I understand the mutated scorpion now.

[DNA]

o man this is funny ... :bash:

[Gr8t100]

This shit is fuckin pointless. Do us all a favor and chuck your computer over a cliff and never return back to it.

[brokk]

You know, I'm beggining to think this was all just a big, sick joke.

I was gonna say, that tossing aroung words like "line art", "render", "tablet", and such, DONT MAKE YOU AN ARTIST.

Manky, throwing around those words all over the place and then showing that crappy drawing wont make you sound cooler or better. It just makes you look stupid because you have no idea of what you're doing. Its not gonna improve your art either or how others percieve it. Just because you scream "LINE ART!" doesn't mean your "line art" is any good.

Then again, I'm beggining to think this was some sick joke by someone, and you could actually be a pro who's pulling our leg.

[troymcoy]

Was this your inspiration?

http://www.rathergood.com/vid/

make that crab dance with some lense flare and it'll be totally sweet.

[WildSpruceMoose]

Then again, I'm beggining to think this was some sick joke by someone, and you could actually be a pro who's pulling our leg.

That is what I am starting to think too. Manky if its a joke, your wasting bandwith, if not listen to these people please. If you can colour properly with traditional media, it shows when you work on the computer so please do not lie.

[Thanatos]

You really need to work on your design skills. there is really no sense of depth in this peice. you either need to play with scale or different values. work on it man.

[waronmars]

I don't think it's a joke, but it's still funny. You gotta check out that other thread, it's gold. Winjer rocks my socks.

[CENOBITE]

Best. Art. Ever.

[Ulysses]

Hey Manky...aside from what other folks are sayin' it would also be a good idea to do some thumbnails before going straight into the drawing. They help you define your compositition and design...you could also do some perspective studies too to make your piece more dynamic...but aside from doing a lot of life drawing...anytime you need to conceptualize anything you should definitely start out by doing a bunch of thumbs.

In regards to Photoshop...I once overheard a friend say "You can't polish a turd." Photoshop won't help if the line drawing has problems. Don't give up man keep drawing. :cool:

[Calle_]

omg cant stop laughing.. i so love this.. btw, dude, learn to take some crits. dont buy a tablet if you cannot draw it will just cost you lots of money, especially with tour attitude, wich is far from serious.. gl..

[steiner116]

If i were you id listen to these guys, they know what there talking about!

but hey your arts still better than mine is lol hell im too ashamed to even post mine yet!!

i think you should take a look at calle_'s sketchbook and follow the same path.... you'll be a ninja in no time!!

[jermainevl]

Then again, I'm beggining to think this was some sick joke by someone, and you could actually be a pro who's pulling our leg.
Yep, joke's over Coro. We gotcha!
Mmmh, I could almost feel sorry for him...If it wasn't for that avatar! RRAAAHH :bash:

[Adam Wilson]

Hey man. if or ganna start out whith that kind of stuff i recommend started by sketch. The comp will take some time to master. keap up the practice.:beer:

[N8 Van Dyke]

I haven't cried this much since I got kicked in the nuts in 3rd grade while playing soccer!

[Scubasteve]

Ok Manky listen up. I think what everyone is trying to explain to you is this. There are two kinds of "artist". One is tha type of artist, who is willing to work hard, practice in the areas that need improvement and will take the advice of his peers for his advancement. And the other kind of artist is the type who reach a certain level of skill, but truly lack the desire, ambition or whatever to pursue and develope their art, thusly staying at that level forever. So to spend all your efforts in an advanced program like photoshop and avoid learning the basics is detremental to learning and will get you nowhere. So if your ok with your skill level, then stay in photoshop and do as you please. But if you really want to grow in your skills and become a far greater artist, I would listen to the advice others have given you on this fourm. Good luck, I hope you make the right decision.:p

[manky83]

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v248/manky83/123.jpg

experimenting with ways to bring shaded pencil scetches into colour...

[fukifino]

Maybe you should experiment with learning how to draw first.

Just a suggestion.

[fresh27]

Originally posted by fukifino
Maybe you should experiment with learning how to draw first.

Just a suggestion.

:evilbat:

[winjer]

Wow good job on this one but i can see a few things that you could easily fix. First you left out the background its real easy to just render one in photoshop. Second thing is that you drew this floating dragon head thing but theres no way to tell its floating around, so i added a drop shadow to it. Also add some flames next time and youre good to go. Photoshop will do most of it for you really.


http://winjer.kicks-ass.net/123.jpg

[SylkX]

yes manky remember, shadows keep things plausible. Listen to winjer

[Red_Rook]

post the line art you did by hand.
Rebder it with a pencil if you want, BY HAND.
Seriously you say you can do it with a pencil, do it then just to show us, its not that hard, and since your almost on a pro level it shouldnt take you much time right. Go on then do it, ill be back in half an hour to check. :) I just say your choice of medium is REALLY CRAP RIGHT NOW, can you do a single drawing withought using any photoshop tools. If you do that and post it here, even if its really crap at the moment, you will get a round of appluse from everyone here simply because that is a step your taking to wards becoming a better artist. Do us the favour, do yourself the favour.

[winjer]

Pfft you dont have to listen to red rook manky. I know your pro schedule must keep you real busy even without having to prove yourself to people all the time.

[Gr8t100]

http://defaced.projectgamma.com/1999/august/retard.jpg

[Xavi]

I... damn this is too sad to be true, kid, youre the uber prime forever noob
cant take you seriously anymore, sorry
but please, just draw

[MooingCow]

Originally posted by winjer
Wow good job on this one but i can see a few things that you could easily fix. First you left out the background its real easy to just render one in photoshop. Second thing is that you drew this floating dragon head thing but theres no way to tell its floating around, so i added a drop shadow to it. Also add some flames next time and youre good to go. Photoshop will do most of it for you really.


http://winjer.kicks-ass.net/123.jpg

That shadow really gives it depth

[bluepulse]

Originally posted by Gr8t100
http://defaced.projectgamma.com/1999/august/retard.jpg

The finger is a weapon :iws:

[Clandestine_IX]

Do you perhaps represent some sort of special ed art program? Keep up the good work!

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/matt_horrigan/Art/morephotoshop2.jpg

[FIG]

Manky, I don't know you but I can tell you need to learn to take critiques. Then you need to take some figure drawings classes because its obvious you need to add some foundation to your limited drawing ability. Most importantly, listen to some of the artists here because they know their sh!t. I'm always learning, evolving as an artist and this a great place to learn. Theres always room for improvement, no matter how good you are or think you are.

[dem0n]

Originally posted by Gr8t100
http://defaced.projectgamma.com/1999/august/retard.jpg
hahahhaha :D

dude, listen to what they are tying to tell you.
theyre giving good advise, if you dont wanna hear it sod off.

[toad]

DO NOT, encourage him by telling him he should use photoshop! and especailly lens flares. JEEZ! i am so sick of people who don't listen to GOOD advise, and trust me there are plenty of ass h0les on this site who don't want to improve, they just want some prase. well NO! normally i'm nice and try to be up lifting. NO MORE! every body has been telling you to quit with the photoshop but you ignore them, so, go ahead and use it! post again in a few months! we'll see how much better off you are from using it anyway.
i'm not saying NEVER use photoshop. one day it will be VERY helpful. just not now man.

[softdrawer]

teh lenz flare is cool yo, you can play around with teh values and shit.

[Steph Laberis]

*bump*

[Forge]

it's smell like banning, huh ??

[Wafflehouseninja]

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 I think i found my new avatar! <3 <3 <3 <3 <3




http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v248/manky83/123.jpg

experimenting with ways to bring shaded pencil scetches into colour...

[KenDeathwalker]

:yayca:

[kong]

i cant believe i read this thread.
Is it me or is conceptart.org getting watered down.
Didnt the mods use to move this stuff to like a beginners section?

[Lohan]

maybe you should actually read it next time.

[slickcoder]

A beginner's section is a good idea.

Manky, I'm sorry you have to read the crap you read in here... One of the worst things about the art world are the artists (some of them), flat out mean when they see weakness in anyone's artwork (everyone here has felt that sting before). The thing most of them forget is that, at one time, none of us were good. Some people got an earlier start I suppose. The people that trolled this thread are just compensating for something else (lack of accomplishment, didn't make the cool goth scene in college and impress that girl, etc.).

You do indeed need to work on your skills. I'm thinking you're young and a beginner. Keep drawing, and trying to learn from people that are better than you, and for all we know you'll be hosting a workshop of your own someday.

You are brave for posting your drawings in here. Far braver than the morons who insult you from behind the safety of the anonymous internet.

[JeffZNY]

slickcoder-did you read this entire thread? better yet, did you click over to the other thread where he was caughting stealing art? ppl aren't being mean here...in response to crits, the dude turned into a first-rate clown. I just find it hard to believe that you'd admonish ppl like that if you'd read both threads, but maybe you're just the patron saint of patience. in any event, the guy was born in 1983 and he's an "euntraprenuer." at just one year younger than me, youth is not the issue here, suck is.

[VizualByte]

IMO this guy is laughing at all the responses he is getting. This guy seems like a big smartass

[slickcoder]

slickcoder-did you read this entire thread? better yet, did you click over to the other thread where he was caughting stealing art? ppl aren't being mean here...in response to crits, the dude turned into a first-rate clown. I just find it hard to believe that you'd admonish ppl like that if you'd read both threads, but maybe you're just the patron saint of patience. in any event, the guy was born in 1983 and he's an "euntraprenuer." at just one year younger than me, youth is not the issue here, suck is.

I didn't see the other thread, I only saw this one. Here's a summary:

Manky: Dudez, heres mah art! <img>
Someone: Here's a smartass list of everything that's wrong with it.
Someone else: don't use Photoshop.
Someone else 2: You suck, go home. And don't use photoshop.
Manky: Dudez, thx, and here's more art. <img> (photoshop)
Someone Again: wtf, don't use photoshop.
Someone More: just stop drawing, noob.
Someone Else: There's a lot of crap going on with that. You should've listened to me about the whole photoshop thing.
Someone New: <smartass comment>
Someone nice: You're brave, keep trying!
...etc...

I don't doubt that Manky plagerized something in another thread, but it's not a prerequisite for me to know what's going on in another thread in order to point out the asshattery in this thread.

Manky needs to practice, no arguments there. But in art school I saw a few people with hardly any skill get trained to be badass artists, while "talented" people barely improved. Art isn't a matter of talent so much as it is a matter of dedication and encouragement. And NONE of us would be artists if not for those two things, talent be damned. (Talent doesn't create artwork, WORK creates artwork).

If you don't like someone's art to the point where you feel they don't belong in certain sections, contact a moderator or just don't post. There's no need to hurt someone's feelings or encourage an assclown (and let's face it a flame in here is doing one of the two).

IMO this guy is laughing at all the responses he is getting. This guy seems like a big smartass
This is a definite possibillity, hence my "Don't post flames and encourage it" comment.

@Manky: get some formal training. People are nicer to you when you're paying them. lol. And you're a beginner, regardless of age it's apparent you're self taught. Training is good for everyone, even the "naturally talented".

.. btw... sidenote: 22 is pretty young, he could get some formal training in 4 years and still get a lot of work in to his career. ;) Because, sadly, all the sunshine everyone blows up our asses about "talent" our whole lives tends to be more nuture than nature, and nearly anyone can become a competent artist with enough dedication, practice and study. We just tell ourselves that every great piece we see came from "talented" hands to make us feel better about our "special" gifts.

... well, that's enough deep thought about bad art for me for one thread.

[KenDeathwalker]

Slick its a very tired argument, extremely tired. Just let him get clowned, and dont waste your intellect on him, you arent the only one who tried the compassionate reasonable approach.

[meDrawUC]

To be honest with you, and I'm aware of the fact that this may have been said already, it really doesn't look to me like either of the insects is putting up much of a fight. I think a more appropriate name for this piece would be, "scorpion sits next to bee thing", and I'm not trying to be rude but am just trying to make my point.

Next time think a bit more about what poses the characters should take based upon what they are doing.

g'luck! :)

[Warhead82]

Maybe try listening to these guys manky, and stop using photoshop and draw traditionally. Don't think your god of art and do what you want, your work isnt that great man.

Anyways go get a blank piece of paper and pencil glue your arm to the table, and start drawing!




To the CA.orgers - This thread is awsome :D Fking hilarious...

[adien]

......... willow-whisp is a troll. bumped this tired old thread just to see sparks fly and flames start up. Last post June 27th, then willow's *bump*.

just let it die again.

[Chris Beatrice]

Like most people I learned to draw (and sculpt, and paint) with traditional media. But that doesn't mean pencil and paper are the only way to learn to draw.

This guy can't draw, let's get that out up front. I'm not being harsh, that's just a fact. Manky, you need to learn to draw if you want to make the kind of art (I think) you want to make.

However, there is simply no logical reason why you need to do that with pencil and paper vs. Photoshop or Painter. Yes, it is true that using pencil and paper forces you to think only of shape, line, value, etc. while Photoshop's robust capabilities may pull you away from learning the basics first, but there is no reason you can't learn the basics in Photoshop if you want.

When I was in art school (as I'm sure was the case with most art students), the teachers used different methods to force us to focus on what they were trying to teach. For example, in color class we would have to peruse magazines for large areas of relatively flat printed color, cut them out, then create pictures using these cut shapes. That forced us to use simple shapes, few colors, and to try a variety of different and subtle colors in a picture that we might not have bothered to mix if we were working in paint. It forced us to look at the very basic relationships of color, value and shape. Then there are exercises like taking a 100 page newsprint sketch pad and drawing the same object, like, say a bell pepper on every page in an hour or so, etc.

As an art director and manager of a staff of artists for more than a decade now, in addition to working professionally, I have taught artists in all media, including digital (2d and 3d), and I promise you that the same learning techniques can be applied to all digital media (Photoshop, Painter, Illustrator, whatever). Pencil and paper is still always convenient because you can carry it with you wherever you go AND it forces you to use only the most basic tools. I'm sure you know that.

All of these things can be done digitally, but the key is to focus on what you need to learn, not just try to "jump to the top of the ladder" to paraphrase you. You need to isolate the skills you are trying to acquire, often in artificial ways. For example, you might go buy a plastic model of a scorpion (like a toy or something) and draw it over and over from all angles in Photoshop. Whenever people learn anything (when they teach themselves) they tend to focus on their strengths, not their weaknesses. That's just the way most people are.

Photoshop makes it even easier for you to avoid focusing on your strengths, and that is what many people here are saying, though I emphatically disagree that you can only learn to draw with traditional media. I think there are some undeniable, irreducible truths in learning to draw, but for me they are only these:

Draw from 3d (not necessarily "life" just 3d, i.e. don't copy photos)
Draw a lot

That's it. "Realistic" drawing is simply rendering the illusion of 3d on a 2d surface. To learn to do that you need to:

1. Know how to translate 3d form to 2d, edit, emphasize, de-emphasize, etc. (i.e. be more than just a camera)
2. Understand the forms you are drawing, in 3d
3. Have developed the manual dexterity to make your hand make the marks you want to make (this one is less important - most artists can draw with either hand just as well, if not as quickly).

1. Comes from looking. Looking at 3d forms, looking at other artists' work, copying other artists work, drawing a lot and looking at your own work a lot. Copying other artists' work is VASTLY different from copying photos, because (though you may not see it now) the convincing illusion of 3d in the work of a great painter or draftsman is usually delivered by surprisingly simple means. The fact that the average person doesn't see that is what makes the work so strong, so elegant and economical. It's not about copying exactly what you see - you will never be able to do that perfectly. It's about understanding what you see, then (re)creating it. Learning how to exploit how the human eye and mind experience the illusion (and the reality) of 3d forms is something a camera cannot do.

2. Comes from studying all the forms you encounter in your daily life, and applying special study to the forms you are rendering in a particular work, or forms you typically render. For example, if you do a lot of figure work you constantly look at the people you see in your daily life.

3. Comes from drawing.

The only thing I'll say in closing is that for most people it takes a LONG time to learn to draw well. It's not like going to law school or something where, though you certainly work hard, after 3 years you're done, even if you never studied law a day in your life. Most of us draw from the time we are old enough to hold a pencil. Sites like this can be very decieving, because you see a lot of great work here and think maybe you can just pick up a pencil (or copy of Photoshop) and become a great master in a few weeks. It takes a lot of perserverance and even pain to get there. But you will if you keep at it.

I hope that helps. Keep drawing.
-Chris

[fukifino]

To all of you who replied to this ancient thread after Willow's bump, and actually took the time to crit it, I'm awed by your patience, compassion, and willingness to help this guy, but extremely sorry you wasted your time.

Honestly, I'm pretty sure Manky83 no longer posts here. We only bumped this thread, because, due to the threads he posted when he was actually posting, he earned himself somewhat of a living legend status among a small group of us. I, being a top rate asshat, like to expose everyone else to his riotous threads, and brought it up in the lobby of the Galleria during the SF workshop. We then proceeded to spend nearly THREE HOURS laughing our asses off at him.

Oh...and we made some fan art. (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=382340) ;)

[Chris Beatrice]

Ok, I feel like a chimp. I was just trying to help the guy.

[Collosus]

Hey man... Go out and buy yourself a tablet if that's what inspires you. The fastest way to learn is to do something that motivates you. Tablet's are okay for coloring, but not so good for drawing...

btw you do kinda suck...

[N D Hill]

Hey man... Go out and buy yourself a tablet if that's what inspires you. The fastest way to learn is to do something that motivates you. Tablet's are okay for coloring, but not so good for drawing...

btw you do kinda suck...

umm... Nevermind.

[fukifino]

Tablet's are okay for coloring, but not so good for drawing...


hahahahahaha...hoooooooooooooookay then.

[ExilE]

Wow. It's amazing how many people are so quick to jump all over this guy about his artwork. He's looking for some honest feed back and 95% of the people commenting on this thread have nothing more to say than, learn to draw, or stay away from photoshop, or you suck. I wonder how many of you were able to pick up a pencil, and draw something awe inspiring on your first try. So perhaps many of you are better artists, but that doesn't give you the right or responsibility to be a complete douche bag to this guy. Just a thought...

[fukifino]

Wow. It's amazing how many people are so quick to jump all over this guy about his artwork. He's looking for some honest feed back and 95% of the people commenting on this thread have nothing more to say than, learn to draw, or stay away from photoshop, or you suck. I wonder how many of you were able to pick up a pencil, and draw something awe inspiring on your first try. So perhaps many of you are better artists, but that doesn't give you the right or responsibility to be a complete douche bag to this guy. Just a thought...


Again, you're jumping in without knowing the full story. I'm probably the first to give "newbie" artists the benifit of the doubt and try to bolster their courage with some good, solid, honest crits.

However, what's not apparent from this thread, is that his first post on this site was a "photoshop tutorial (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24425)" of the worst kind. (Sadly, the original artwork is no longer on the web.) When people tried to politely tell him that perhaps his tutorial/art wasn't quite up to the level of this site, he got extremely defensive and then, of all things, claimed that he actually TAUGHT Photoshop at a COLLEGE.

So, trust me...the aggression in this thread was completely warranted.

What really saddens me is that the "paintover" that someone did is no longer available. Man, that was hilarious!

[L. Scott Knight]

So is this going to be a new term for bad?
e.g.,
"That's so...manky."
"Totally manky, dude."
"That chick is manky."
"Oh man, that Bum smells manky!"
"That's the mankiest thing I've ever seen!"
"Whoa! That bouncer totally mankified your face, Dude!"

[fukifino]

So is this going to be a new term for bad?
e.g.,
"That's so...manky."
"Totally manky, dude."
"That chick is manky."
"Oh man, that Bum smells manky!"
"That's the mankiest thing I've ever seen!"
"Whoa! That bouncer totally mankified your face, Dude!"


hahahahahha, BRILLIANT!!!

[blok]

f**k this thread and close it

[rswanson]

Man i'm glad i got to read this thread, its HIGHlarious! Someone should make it a sticky.

[Main Loop]

5 stars!

[-MonkeyBoy-]

So is this going to be a new term for bad?
e.g.,
"That's so...manky."
"Totally manky, dude."
"That chick is manky."
"Oh man, that Bum smells manky!"
"That's the mankiest thing I've ever seen!"
"Whoa! That bouncer totally mankified your face, Dude!"

Not to bump this thread further when it should clearly be left to die, but "manky" does actually mean all those things. In British dialect manky refers to something filthy dirty, but can also be used as a general perjorative.

[L. Scott Knight]

There ya go...[sigh]

But then in all fairness, this isn't as bad as that "Come see the totally awesome works by me 'cause I'm great and you all are pions" thread...well, I paraphrase.

[ExilE]

Again, you're jumping in without knowing the full story. I'm probably the first to give "newbie" artists the benifit of the doubt and try to bolster their courage with some good, solid, honest crits.

However, what's not apparent from this thread, is that his first post on this site was a "photoshop tutorial (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24425)" of the worst kind. (Sadly, the original artwork is no longer on the web.) When people tried to politely tell him that perhaps his tutorial/art wasn't quite up to the level of this site, he got extremely defensive and then, of all things, claimed that he actually TAUGHT Photoshop at a COLLEGE.

So, trust me...the aggression in this thread was completely warranted.

What really saddens me is that the "paintover" that someone did is no longer available. Man, that was hilarious!

Ahh I see. I saw the fan art thread you started, and read through quite a bit of this one, and really felt bad for the guy. Seemed like everyone decided to get together and take a collective crap on him. But now I understand the reasoning.

[Texahol]

Ok, so I found out about this thread....here is my contribution ( I should really be doing art history homework, but this was a lot more enticing)
It's a real short flash animation...
not sure how to post something like that in here
http://www.texahol.com/animated/insectbattle.html

not sure that this works... (I just recently started teaching myself flash, I didn't know how to do the click to start thing... :-\

-Devin