The Official Artcenter Thread - like, omg! [Archive] - Page 6

Justin.

July 10th, 2008, 01:29 AM

Hi Pseudocognition, Your characters look pretty good. But you have to keep in mind that its not only about the quality. For portfolio purposes its also (maybe even more) about quantity.These sketches might seem too refined. If I were you, I'd rather show every little sketch no matter how ugly it is. Just to show, that you are able to explore possibilities in many different directions. The more the sketches differ from each other the better. If Im wrong, please tell me.
Good Luck!

Alright, read this, had to reply.

never, ever ever quantity over quality. Polish does not = quality. You can have high-quality sketches, high quality thumbnails I mean. Personally, I left out maybe 5 to 6 "polished" or refined pieces from my portfolio because they just weren't good enough and they were beyond salvage. It's true that they want to see lots of thumbnails and lots of comp sketches etc- but that does in no way mean to sacrafice quality. Try your hardest not to ever show work that you aren't happy with, or that you know has major flaws. Alot of a good drawing is just your ability to not just say "good enough", but to really care about making the drawing the best it can be.

Dr.Bigdick

July 10th, 2008, 01:52 AM

Alright, read this, had to reply.

never, ever ever quantity over quality. Polish does not = quality. You can have high-quality sketches, high quality thumbnails I mean. Personally, I left out maybe 5 to 6 "polished" or refined pieces from my portfolio because they just weren't good enough and they were beyond salvage. It's true that they want to see lots of thumbnails and lots of comp sketches etc- but that does in no way mean to sacrafice quality. Try your hardest not to ever show work that you aren't happy with, or that you know has major flaws. Alot of a good drawing is just your ability to not just say "good enough", but to really care about making the drawing the best it can be.

Well, when I mentioned "quality", I actually ment the prettyness of the drawing/rendering ... not the quality of the design/idea.
Lets put it like this: variety of design ideas over prettiness of renderings. Everybody fine with that?

Justin.

July 10th, 2008, 10:57 AM

Again- not really. If you are putting in bad sketches just to create more variety, your are lowering the overall quality of the body of work. This is straight from quite a few ACCD alums I've talked to. No matter what portfolio you are making, be it for freelance work, a studio job, or any art school, you should never put in work that you think is downright terrible. The only exception to this I would offer, would be in the case of the Entertainment Portfolio. I suck at environments. If I had my way I wouldn't have included them, but it's part of displaying a skill set, so I did the best I could. Even then, out of 5 of them I finished I only put in 2. Quality will 99/100 times trump quantity in any situation, especially outside of art.

Dr.Bigdick

July 10th, 2008, 12:14 PM

Well, I'm only talking about the ent. des. portfolio for accd. I wouldn't suggest to show ugly sketches to a client. The art center admissions people are certainly interested in other qualities than pretty drawings.
What I want to say is that its better (for the ACCD portfolio) to care more about design quality than about rendering quality. The more sketches, the better. The ability to provide a huge amount of variety is far more important than the ability to create a beautiful, finished illustrate of the final design. Doodling is 90% of a concept designers job later on. And those are Scott's words ;)

Justin.

July 10th, 2008, 04:11 PM

More sketching does not mean higher quality. That's what I'm saying. If you put in shitty ideas and sketches next to good ones- even if they are different, it brings down the quality of your work. Doodling IS 90% of the job, that's why you shouldn't settle for shitty doodles. Also, I never said that polished images are important- the opposite- QUALITY does-not-equal POLISH.

Dr.Bigdick

July 10th, 2008, 04:26 PM

Again. When I mentioned "quality" in my first post, I was talking about the prettiness of a single drawing/painting/rendering. not about the quality of design or even the quality of the whole portfolio. But I still think there are no "shitty ideas". at least not for this purpose. He has to show that he is able to provide as many different possible design solutions as possible. And I'm pretty sure this is the most important ability, all of us had to proof in our portfolios. I guess the bottom line is "design over rendering". dont you agree?

Pseudocognition

July 11th, 2008, 09:45 AM

*puts aside popcorn* Well, you both have good points. I think the overall idea is that no matter how long it takes you to produce work and at whatever stage of completion it is at, anyone who looks at it has to know immediately what it is and recognize some sort of originality about it.

I spent a couple of hours on this page, trying to demonstrate ideas at different phases. A will-be fully rendered character portrait taking upwards of four hours, a semi-shaded Photoshop doodle that took half an hour, four 15-minute costume sketches, and a couple doodles from my sketchbook that couldn't have taken more than five minutes each. In the remaining space I'm going to draw her dog :P (The reason I don't have this much art for the characters on my previously posted page is because those were side-characters who, I think, needed to be more suggested than developed. Unlike this character.)

Oh, and I realize AC probably won't care about the writing, I'll probably put a headshot there instead.

a la bapsi

July 12th, 2008, 03:46 AM

I've heard of workshops somewhere on campus.
Any idea where/when they are? :o

pipermints

July 12th, 2008, 05:42 PM

I'd like to know too. I think there are life drawing sessions?

Justin.

July 12th, 2008, 06:57 PM

Usually part of the curriculum is going to figure workshops and such, but I think it's student only.

a la bapsi

July 13th, 2008, 02:25 AM

Found out about it. ;D
it's for students, faculty and alumni only, but i'm no student. i just go to saturday high. :x
lol all i really did was ask around after my 1-4 class.
on saturday, there's a 5-10pm long pose in 104.
all i know about it.
if you go, spot me. i'd be the only person without a clipboard and newsprint. >_>

Brashen

July 18th, 2008, 06:50 PM

Another question for the noobs:

How is living in Pasadena? Is it safe? Are there too many theft/murderers/anything horrible in and around the school? I ask because I'm from a different country and T.V. shows definitely don't paint a pretty picture!! I know most of these things are exaggerated and I'm not trying to offend anyone but I'll be bringing with me some very expensive equipment and I don't want to come back one day and fins my stuff stolen/vandalized.

Another thing is how is the pricing of the housing near the school?

JoshK

July 18th, 2008, 09:53 PM

Hey, there are good and bad areas in pasadena. The area near the school is really nice but expensive....if you are just renting out someone's room in their house then its doable. I have some friends that rent a room for $500-400. The downside is the owner might not want you to bring anyone over, or you need to keep quite...etc. If you have roomates, you can usually rent a much nicer place (maybe $1200-1400 for 2 bedroom) with gated parking, gym...etc.

The housing list from the school is usually in pretty ghetto areas (from my personal experience), but I've never gotten jumped or my car broken into. Cheapest I've seen is around $800 for a studio space. I think Pasadena is safe as long as you don't walk around a shady neighborhood at like 2 am or leave your laptop in your car in plain view. If you want, drive around the place that you want to rent to see how the neighborhood is at day and night. Hope that helps!

Also look at places near pasadena, like altadena, arcadia, alhambra, san gabriel, glendale.....etc. Its a little longer of a drive (5-20 mins more) to school but it should be cheaper.

Brashen

July 19th, 2008, 05:41 AM

JoshK: thanks man that gave me a stepping stone but as I'm currently in Lebanon right now and a first timer to the U.S. I'll probably have to stay at the school housing first and then move out and see other areas. And I thought pasadena was more of an urban area rather than a city? Correct me if I'm wrong!!

Brashen

July 19th, 2008, 05:54 AM

Controversy at Art Centre:

Umm I found this while scrounging information about AC is this true?

http://www.laweekly.com/art+books/art/is-art-center-gehry-rigged-richard-koshalek-says-no/19093/

Justin.

July 19th, 2008, 03:00 PM

There is alot of political drama and budget disagreements at any school you go to. It's true, but this kind of shit happens everywhere. You can either make it occupy all your time at art center and not see any benefit to you directly, or you can ignore it and let the more activist students deal with it (they do a better job anyways). Tuition will always be high, people will always get fired for seedy reasons, shit is always going to be fucked up, no matter what school you attend. Don't let it deter you, as it has no direct impact on you. Tuition wont miraculously drop by 100's of dollars no matter WHAT the students do. (unless they can some how rally the entire student body to drop out at the beginning of a semester, like a strike)

Pseudocognition

July 22nd, 2008, 01:05 PM

Just got back from visiting AC. The area is great. Admissions had some great suggestions aaaand... whee! :P Me likey muchos.

eromenos

July 22nd, 2008, 10:34 PM

I'm wondering if there is anything for animation in art center? Like I thought it might've been entertainment design but that sounds more like concept art.

evildisco

July 23rd, 2008, 07:22 PM

Justin, you're not even attending the school.

The things that have been going on are not exactly your standard fare drama.
Yes, you either focus your attention on the problems to fix it or you ignore them and suffer the consequences.

And besides it is that kind of attitude that perpetuates the status quo in terms of problems. Just because it is something that has existed always does not make it ok to just ignore it.

Now, I wish current students were more involved in the whole deal and it is good for prospective students to inform themselves of what is going on.

Justin.

July 23rd, 2008, 07:53 PM

I'm attending in a month, and work and talk with alot of alums daily. Not as good as actually attending, but I do my research, and quite a few of the alums share the same attitude. All I can do is sign a petition. If the entire public had the attitude I had, then yes, it would be a problem, but there are students more engineered toward battling politics. What I'm saying isn't apathy, it's priority. I'm not going to spend 30k a year to battle the schools fucking politics, if you or other students do, that's their problem. I'm going to spend 30k/yr to get my education and use it. From what I see the students are doing a fine job so far (they ousted Koshalek, though that doesn't seem to have done much about the 'master plan'). I can guarantee you there is nothing I can do to be of benefit to the cause aside from handing out buttons and signing petitions, or whatever. Getting involved is literally wasting money. My tuition will probably be well over 16k per semester by the time I'm out, and no amount of my bitching or moaning or dirt digging can POSSIBLY change that. You can bet that when I am out of the school and making money on my own, I will participate much more extensively in the political side of things, but not now.

Brashen

July 23rd, 2008, 08:11 PM

I think Both of you have a right attitude towards the situation from both perspectives of the spectrum and as a future student I'm very interested in what all parties have to say about it!!

aitchjay

July 25th, 2008, 12:39 AM

Hey guys,

I got into ED a short while ago after some portfolio-related trouble, and am now apartment/room-hunting. So, is anybody here looking for a roommate/flatmate?

Thanks.

Justin.

July 29th, 2008, 08:44 PM

I hate to even ask this, but what happens if you've signed the acceptance agreement, but it turns last minute you might not be able to attend. What would you do?

NoSeRider

July 30th, 2008, 07:37 AM

http://futureofartcenter.blogspot.com

I think Justin read that.....and I've been reading it too.

I'm in contact with a student at Art Center whom I've known at a community college. He's informed me of the what, where and whens of the open life drawing workshops.

I think I'll attend the life drawing workshops. I don't think a simple tour of ACCD is enough for me. I live in San Diego, so it's not impossible for me to attend the Saturday life drawing workshops.

Sleep_Eden_sleep

July 30th, 2008, 01:43 PM

So hey, kind of a digression here, but about living in Pasadena, a few questions:

1. Joshk mentioned that the school usually offered housing at the "ghetto" areas. So what are the alternative sources for finding housing? Is Craigslist even an option? Haha.

2. Do you have to be a certain age to rent a place? I'm going to be 21 by the end of the year but I think I'm still going to be 20 by the time I start looking for housing, and I have no job, but I do have a couple of sources of income, like loans from either banks or relatives (the latter being a last resort.)

3. Is there some sort of system for students who want to rent places together or are these relationships formed only through the course of meeting and being friends at the school?

4. Will cars be an issue? I'm from San Francisco and actually haven't visited LA since I was little so I don't remember what it's like. Is it even worth having a car around or will a bike (motorcycle or just a normal bike) be enough?

Oh, and another question unrelated to the above:

Hopefully I get a ton of scholarships, but assuming I get little to none, can loans cover it all? As in tuition, supplies, housing?

Sorry for having so much questions, it's just a confusing time right now trying to get into the Spring '09 semester and I haven't even finished my portfolio so I can't apply yet.

Thanks in advance.

whatshisface

July 30th, 2008, 06:41 PM

justin- I'm guessing you inform admissions somehow, call and ask about it, but you lose that $200 non refundable deposit

sleep eden- about the housing, it really just depends, I can't vouch for the different areas that the school housing list puts out, you just have to go check it out yourself, but I think alot of it is fine. I actually found my place through craigslist, I live in altadena in a big house with other art center students, I'm like 4 minutes away from school which is awesome.
also the school doesn't "offer" housing, there is no school sponsored housing as far as I'm aware, the housing list it has is simply a list of available places in the area, a jumping off point. I think most of those on the list are places rented out by other art center people or by land lords who usually rent to art center kids so thats cool.

as far as transportation, you NEED a car, I guess a motorcycle could work too, carrying stuff might be hard but hey.
but a bike is just impossible. Public transit sucks here, theres an art bus but the times are far from perfect especially when it gets down to crunch time and your always coming to school at odd times.

JoshK

July 31st, 2008, 12:05 AM

When I mean ghetto, its from my personal experience. But school housing list should be fine. Whats good about the school housing list is that most places won't be too picky about your credit income, job...etc. You can usually move in pretty soon.

Also listen to whatshisface, a car is a must have. Riding a bike is just impossible (although I know someone that did it for a whole term with a drawing board strapped to his back). You gotta go up a hill to get to art center so riding a bike would suck, especially in the summer.

fredcheng1987

July 31st, 2008, 07:01 AM

Okay, here's hoping for some advice/info from anyone currently attending or graduated from Art Center majoring in Illustrations.

I'm hoping to apply to Art Center either this fall or next spring for scholarship consideration under the Illustrations program. I've already had a phone interview with an admissions counselor (a very nice lady) concerning my prospects for gaining entrance into Art Center.
Basically, she told me that most of my portfolio satisfies what they would be looking for in prospective students, but I would need to submit life/live-model drawings for sure.

Current Problem/Situation: I work full-time (job pays well but I have no interest) and cannot attend life-drawing at my community college since they only have Fall classes during the daytime.

Question: Should I fork over the money for private lessons at an art academy (http://www.sofiaacademy.com/) to bolster my life/still-life drawing Illustrations portfolio (it's not cheap, $70/hr plus gas money for the 95 miles or so roundtrip to/from Dallas), OR, could I just wing it on my own and attend uninstructed life-drawing sessions at the local community arts center ($75 for 5 sessions, 3 hrs per session)?

Here's the majority of my works ultra-seven.deviantart.com/gallery/ And yes, done with photo references 'cause I haven't had the opportunity to attend any classes due to my job.

Any help and advice from current and former Art Center students would be greatly appreciated!

umm... it took me like 2 semester of life drawing classes from knowing nothing to pretty ok ,2 semester is like 2x30 3hrs classes = =
assume that you already draw a lot and i kinda slack off sometimes at the first 2 semester, i think you still need to take at least 50 classes of figure drawing to get to know how to use charocal pencil to do some decent life drawing... but it's hard to say because i don't know how good you have to be to get into ac, i went to see the ac illustration scholarship exibiton few weeks ago and base on that then i think you will need more then at least 60 classes if you never use charocal pencil before, but those are the pp that got scholarship , so ...
for uninstructed life-drawing sessions or instructed classes, it really depends on who is teaching the class, if the teacher is like k chen or craiq( my pcc life drawing teacher) then it makes huge differences , but not all teacher is like that, i know a few others that makes no differences for taking uninstructed or instructed classes

fredcheng1987

July 31st, 2008, 07:07 AM

Any Illustration majors here? I'm planning on applying for next spring, and since admissions hasn't e-mailed be back yet, I wanted to ask those of you 'in the know', what size was your entrance portfolio? I've seen a couple of 18x24s which would be nice, but as I found out, quite expensive. I'd really appreciate any helpful answers guys, I really should get started on that thing.

I also heard originals are preferred?

i 'm applying for sping 09 too XD
i'm not sure abt the size, but you need to turn in around 15 pieces of life drawings anywayz, and 18 x24 are the sizes most pp use for doing life drawing, so... i guess yes you need to get at least that size , but i don't think you have to buy the porfolio . as long as you keep ur stuff neat n clean will be fine
and you can always show them to ac counselor before you apply ~

aerosoul

July 31st, 2008, 10:59 AM

Hi all,
I'm from Sydney, Australia and will be attending Art Center this fall. I've been having trouble finding a place to stay, all the tenants want to meet before renting the place out for some reason. Looking for a room or studio as close to ACCD as possible because I won't have a car until a while. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.

a la bapsi

August 2nd, 2008, 05:09 AM

Any accepted illustration majors willing to show us the portfolios they submitted?
There's an army of beautiful entertainment design portfolios in here, which really helped out, but I'm split between entertainment design and illustration->ent arts.
Like to see what it takes to get in for either, please. <3

panchosimpson

August 2nd, 2008, 01:50 PM

Well I'm not in ent arts, but I'm trying to get in for spring 09. Still not done with my portfolio, I'm starting 2 life drawing classes in a few weeks so I'll have new figures to replace my old crappy ones. I also want to have more vis dev-y pieces, or illustrations with a story (like the kafka one I have up). What do you guys think?

stuff being considered for portfolio
http://highonturpentine.blogspot.com/search/label/portfolio

that and other crap:)
http://highonturpentine.blogspot.com/search/label/Ramon

PS. is it ok to include a couple of master studies like at the end or something if they're clearly labeled as such?

a la bapsi

August 2nd, 2008, 11:04 PM

beautiful stuff, panchosimpson, your figures are gorgeous. ._.
and i second his question, since i've a lot of master studies that look...better than my other paintings. >__>;

gdg

August 5th, 2008, 03:59 AM

talako

August 5th, 2008, 07:36 AM

gdg– Ask Scott Robertson.

Justin.

August 15th, 2008, 10:14 PM

Driving out tomorrow morning. See you guys in a few weeks!

fredcheng1987

August 16th, 2008, 01:01 AM

got a question, if I 'm planning to take 2 term illustration then apply for ed for next fall, for the first 2 term in illustration , do I have to take the classes they provide or i can change a bit? cause i already took perspective at acn
so I wonder if i have to waive the class or i can just take another class at 2nd term, if i have to waive it , what should i do ?

evildisco

August 18th, 2008, 04:35 AM

If you took it at art center at night you should be fine, they won't make you take perspective again. For other classes you'll have to talk to the foundation chair and see what they think.

fredcheng1987

August 19th, 2008, 05:31 AM

If you took it at art center at night you should be fine, they won't make you take perspective again. For other classes you'll have to talk to the foundation chair and see what they think.

does grade matter? i miss the last day = [

aitchjay

August 20th, 2008, 05:43 PM

Hey people,
I just got my visa confirmed and am looking into housing. Is anyone here looking for a room/flat-mate?

evildisco

August 23rd, 2008, 06:11 AM

Yes grade matters. So if you didn't show up for your last class you probably failed it sorry.

fredcheng1987

August 27th, 2008, 02:23 PM

Yes grade matters. So if you didn't show up for your last class you probably failed it sorry.

lol i didnt fail it, i got a C , does it matter?

evildisco

August 27th, 2008, 02:42 PM

Uhmmmm they might not take credit with a C, you should go talk to someone then.

a la bapsi

August 27th, 2008, 06:45 PM

a la bapsi

August 29th, 2008, 02:38 AM

anyone know if one can get some sort of scholarship for an acan class?

fredcheng1987

August 29th, 2008, 02:39 AM

i don't know much about any of that stuff, but i think some classes you want transferred that you got a c in are transferred as an elective class, while a class you got a b or higher in are transferred as a core class or something.

i dun really mind if it got tran as core or elective cause i would like to change my major to ed next fall, I just don't want to take perspective again... hate perspective and i know those stuff @ _ @ plus it would be nice to learn something else
btw you applying to artcenter ?

steve kim

September 2nd, 2008, 06:20 PM

edit joshk is the winner with 24 something odd posts in this thread. thank you for playing!

I'm giving away stuff and having a hard time... Someone active in this thread and going to ArtCenter take some of my stuff:

http://conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1904227&postcount=246

i'm sure there's someone here who'll put all that marker paper (lol) to good use!

(also have some 8x10" sketchbooks not shown)

pm/e-mail me

ChewyOlive

September 2nd, 2008, 09:10 PM

Two other student and myself are looking for two more easygoing housemates to rent a three bedroom and two bathroom unit ASAP. We're all students at Art Center College of Design, two illustration majors and one Transportation. You'll get your own private room and share a bathroom. The place is super roomy and all the bedrooms are very large. Two people get to room together in the master bedroom, two others get their own bedrooms, and one person gets the living room. Even with this arrangement, there is ample communal area in the dining room.

Total rent would be $1700/m, which would come out to be $340 each person. An ARTS 51 stop is less than a two minutes walk away.

My email is oliver_tszeng@yahoo.com
Tell a little about yourself in your reply, we are selective.

pipermints

September 8th, 2008, 10:14 PM

This is a random question but where do you guys usually do homework after class? A lot of spending time alone?

evildisco

September 9th, 2008, 01:16 AM

Depends really on you. But as Illustration students we have no official workspace for afterhours.

Gygaxis

September 9th, 2008, 03:07 AM

Hey, guys!

I'm an illustration major at Artcenter, going for Entertainment Arts... I hear it's a good idea for entertainment students to take ID classes like Viscom 1 and 2? I registered for most of my 3rd term classes, but the site says only Product, Trans and Entertainment Design majors can take IDF classes, so... Who should I talk to about taking Viscom? I'm not sure. :[

If you haven't got your stuff fixed, back when Thomas and I did that a couple years back we had to get the product chair to sign off on it (we made him start a wl for us 2nd week of the prior term after we missed seats in 2nd term) good luck to getting it.

Speaking of crap with classes, this is my first term back in 2 years, and I'm still illu for one more term, dealing with the joys of Amy for my class signing needs and the funs of no priority trying to reg for classes this monday. Anyway, whining aside, anyone got a more useful description of the Illustration Ent Arts track 4th term Image and Idea class? The description on Inside is pretty vauge and if I'm trying really hard to finagle my way into the best classes they'll let me (boo missed cut off on Digital Landscape, Dynamic Sketching, and Inventive Drawing >=[ ) at least I made it into Color Theory for Ent with Richard.

evildisco

September 9th, 2008, 04:05 AM

Image and Idea is not an entertainment arts class by the way. But they paint on vintage dolls and do random assignments. I have been postponing that class for the longest time. I don't particularly like Steven Turk to tell you the truth.

Gygaxis

September 9th, 2008, 02:20 PM

ah, well it's listed on the current fall 08 version of the ent arts track as one of the required 4th term classes, probably just going to drop it and take portraiture with Luce since at least then I'm not paining russian dolls

JoshK

September 10th, 2008, 07:37 PM

i took image and idea with steve turk when i was in the editorial track. Its cool if you are going that direction since he is really big on ideas and not just a pretty picture. If you are entertainment though, then yea, try to get out of that class.

pipermints

September 29th, 2008, 05:06 AM

How many pieces max can you send in for your portfolio?

burning_chrome

September 30th, 2008, 05:45 PM

I had the same question since nowhere on the illustration portfolio requirements section of the Art Center website does it state min/max pieces so I called up the school and asked a rep.

She told me that there was no limit on the number of pieces required, but it was STRONGLY recommended that you submit somewhere between 15-20 pieces (for illustration anyway). There's also no size limitation according to the rep, just that you must not exceed the 30lbs. weight limit.

I remember being told that they've accepted as low as 10-12, but anything below those figures will most likely generate a notice that you're in acceptance limbo, i.e., we can't reject you based on what we've seen, but we can't accept you either 'cause there's not enough to make a final determination.

Hope that helps.

Justin.

September 30th, 2008, 07:07 PM

Just as review for anyone looking to get into entertainment design; you'll want 40 pages of ideation and concept development- environments, vehicles, props, characters. Don't submit 40 fully rendered paintings; they want to see dozens upon dozens of sketches. Look for the "Accepted portfolios" thread as there is alot of great info in there.

pipermints

October 3rd, 2008, 10:08 PM

Thanks! :) I just sent in my portfolio a while ago and ended up putting 23 pieces in for illustration.

Sleep_Eden_sleep

October 4th, 2008, 08:00 PM

So I heard the Art Center PREFERS originals. Is that true? I'm not very experienced with making copies of my art and I would much prefer originals myself.

Brashen

October 5th, 2008, 05:23 AM

So what supplies would we need for ED?

burning_chrome

October 5th, 2008, 11:43 AM

Yes, Art Center does indeed prefer original works mailed in to them for portfolio review - the admissions rep was very clear on that when I asked her.

I think the only exceptions would be for Transportation or Product Design applicants where miniatures, product mockups and final models would be too expensive and cumbersome to ship back and forth.

Justin.

October 6th, 2008, 04:36 AM

as a note: Transportation and Product used to be the only 2 "industrial design" majors, but Entertainment is now a 3rd. You take all the Industrial design foundations courses with the trans and product kids. Your classes consist of
Viscom 1: Introduction to basic perspective drawing techniques and how to draw form into space. Your final project is designing a treaded vehicle.
3d Fundamentals: "Woodshop class" basically. You learn to use the band saw, table saw, drill press, sanders, etc.
Design Process 1: Form: A 7 week (half-term) class that teaches you about how shape communicates emotion, modifying silhouettes to change the demographic and appearance of an object.
Design Fundamentals: So far we've just done basic typography in this class, I don't know what else is planned.
Study Models: A class where you learn to build quick models. You start with basic foam cutting with xacto blades, you build the interior of your car 1/4th scale out of foam core, and use other materials to mimic a handheld product. The final for this class is to make a model of your Viscom 1 treaded vehicle
Way Things Work: you take apart a product, and draw the exploded view of it. You do research to figure out why it works the way it works.

For Entertainment Design, you will get syllabuses. If I tell you I could be wrong, plus it varies and you won't want to get it beforehand. There is a store called "Swaine's" in Glendale that has buy one get one free pads of every paper. Marker paper, sketch paper, charcoal paper- and all brands. The best thing you can get to start is the following:

a Zebra F-01 ballpoint pen (or) a Uniball Powertank ballpoint pen
many many reams of regular 8.5x11 printer paper
many many marker pads, 8.5x11
2 pads of 14x17 tracing paper
an xacto knife with #11 refills
a Olfa knife with refills
a circle cutter
a compass
Safety Glasses
one of those mechanical drafting pencils that is blue and works by a clasp. Also the sharpener for it.
A baby t-square
a set of Alvin brand ellipse guides,
a set of COOL GRAY COPIC OR TRIA MARKERS. COOL GRAY, not WARM gray. VERY important.
a 45-45 triangle and a 30-60 triangle
an electric eraser, Sakura brand (50 bucks or so).
A folder that lets you organize 9 classes at once
A place to keep your homework from past weeks CLEAN AND ORGANIZED AND OUT OF THE WAY. You have to save all of your homework.
A 'point and shoot' digital camera of decent quality. Look at spending around 200+ dollars for that.
A car.
A printer/scanner/copier, we got a Canon one for 100 bucks, but if you have 500 smacks laying around, go for the Canon Pixma 1900 or something like that... it's larger format and prints higher quality, better for terms 4 and up.
a nice bed

Brashen

October 6th, 2008, 04:51 AM

Thanks Justin you've been most kind and helpful for taking time to list all that. I'm guessing a car is an absolute must then. I wonder if I have an international drivers license would I be able to jump in and take the test directly or would I have to go through the 1 month process again. And how are the gyms there?

Justin.

October 6th, 2008, 10:09 AM

My 2 roommates are international, I'll ask how they did their drivers dealies. If by gym you mean like weight lifting, you won't have time. If you don't have your own weights, you probably won't be going to a gym. There seriously isn't time. You can be healthy without working out. I've been actually losing weight since I got here. Eat alot of veggies and fruit and drink water. If you are like me and have never had an energy drink and think they taste like shit, then you'll be saving alot of money. IF not, the vending machines there are like 2.50 or something for a Monster and 2.75 for a redbull, but if you eat good enough you should be able to sleep well and stay awake really long. I've already pulled 1 all nighter with no sleep (due to study models... and my terrible time management) and I didn't have any caffeine. Someone asked earlier about where you do homework; I work alot better at school even though I've got a setup at home, but there are just too many distractions. Most of the Industrial Design people work in room 202 and 212 (which is connected to 202). The farther into the term, the more upper-term people are there. It's also pretty awesome seeing the trans kids throw together large format badass car sketches in minutes. I have a group of about 6-10 friends that I usually hang out with- not a clique, just people I know better, and we will do homework there every weekend til the morning (between 2 and 5AM). You will need a car, but you can find really awesome deals if you look hard enough. One of the trans kids actually bikes to school, but he's had 4 flat tires in a month and has had to walk to school those days.

Brashen

October 6th, 2008, 12:49 PM

Justin you da fudging man. You are like a God send, the fountain of info!!
I'm sorry if I'm like harassing you with questions!! As for the energy stuff nah stuff tastes like sewage water...I do take protein shakes tho. But I'm sure there are gyms close by right? I hate dawdling so I usually finish workouts in roughly an hr. What about church...there probably wont be enough time for that but are the close by as well? As for a car I''ll probably look for one when I get there oh and where are your roomies from may I ask?

Thanks Justin really !!

Justin.

October 6th, 2008, 06:35 PM

They are from Germany and Switzerland.

There are only closeby gyms depending on what you call "close by". If you are measuring in miles, then there might be a few. If you are measuring in minutes, then there aren't really any closeby ones.

Art Center is a beautiful campus on a beautiful hill, but there's a few very large disadvantages. It's on a rich hill. To get there you go through miles of rich residential area at 35 mph. You can't even see it from the base of the hill, it's obscured by trees. There's basically only 2 ways to get there, one is up chevy chase and the other is up linda vista. Both are very tiny roads. No Mcdonalds or InNout or Jack in the box or starbucks around. If you are going to grab a burger, you'll be gone for half an hour easily, if you're lucky. There are a few grocery stores a few miles away, about 10 minutes drive is the closest I know of. There is less than 1% chance you'll be able to live on the hill, as there are almost no rentals there, and if there are than it's easily past the $1000 range. This might sound miserable, but it isn't really. usually people bring sandwich stuff. And the campus is freaking beautiful. You can see downtown pasadena all the way to Sierra Madre from up there, and around 6:30-7:30 it's fucking magical.

aitchjay

October 7th, 2008, 11:17 AM

I see Justin's already done all the hard work. Nicely done.

One thing though: I'm pretty sure that Swain's "buy a pad, get one free" deal was only limited to Canson pads, and only during the sale at that--the first 10 days of term or so. It's a great store nonetheless; Art Center students can sign up for an ArtCard and get 20% off (25% during sales, so I'd recommend waiting for that to buy your stuff), and there's a hardware store across its parking lot where you can get the shop tools Swain's doesn't sell. (Haven't been to the latter myself.)

Justin.

October 7th, 2008, 09:40 PM

hadi (aitchjay), it was weird, every brand had the same "buy one get one" sign over it, and the whole isle said "all paper pads BOGO". Beinfang, canson, strathmore- all the brands in that isle were indeed bogo. Canson just had the ones most convenient for our purposes, but we should have gotten more marker pads anyways. Though I hear that beinfangs are terrible for marker. Also, not sure if I said that- get marker pads. I've already gone through 2 or 3, each has 50 sheets in it. I'd say stock up to 10 pads either 8.5x11 or 9x12, as for viscomm nad design process, most of our homework is done on marker paper.

Brashen

October 8th, 2008, 05:38 AM

Thanks guys for all the help!!

Work on the portfolio is going ok I guess. Still, being nervous about what to put into it and what not to put is really unnerving plus I have more digital stuff than traditional...and I mean way more. I just find Digital to be a better media to contrive my images. Will this be held against me?

aitchjay

October 8th, 2008, 11:46 AM

Justin -- Ah. Go Swain's, then! They're being quite generous.

Brashen -- What they care most about is your ideation process, how you go about conceptualizing things--given that you can draw and that your ideas come through clearly, of course. So the medium shouldn't matter for the most part. But I do recommend variety, at least in the "unrelated material" section of your portfolio, where you put in stuff that you've done before, for other projects and what not. If they like how you think, how you conceptualize and all that jazz, it's gonna come down to skill for choosing between applicants; show what you can do, what you're good at, different mediums and tools you've experimented with, etc.

Justin.

October 8th, 2008, 01:34 PM

make sure you check out the portfolios posted in the "Accepted Portfolios" thread, as I think 6-7 of us entertainment students posted our stuff in there. Doing digital won't be held against you, but I was given the advice to do lots of pencil or ballpoint pen sketching for the project and put it in there. Seriously, they don't want to see "portfolio pieces" like most majors at other schools. They really want to see the bones- they want to watch your process and see you think. Do small thumbnails, the pick a few to turn into comps, then take 2 or 3 of those comps into color (even just 1 will do actually). ALot of people have a "character" section, an "enviro" section, a "tech" section, and a "props" section, and then an "unrelated work" section. Remember that your sketches should be based around a story so there is cohesion to the universe. This will also make the flow between designs more consistent, and easier to digest.

a la bapsi

October 9th, 2008, 01:39 PM

Thanks, Justin.
You're a real help. :D

Riiroi

October 10th, 2008, 11:55 AM

Brashen

October 10th, 2008, 02:02 PM

Thanks guys for the info. I just wanted to make sure that deadline is in March right?

@Riiroi: From what I've seen of Justin's and the other guys' including them would be a nice touch!!

a la bapsi

October 10th, 2008, 08:55 PM

I was wondering, is it ok to put in life drawings as well. I was thinking......maybe they would like to see our foundation skills?

life drawing is half of the portfolio.
for an illustration portfolio, at least.
O:

Justin.

October 11th, 2008, 02:15 PM

Riiroi

October 12th, 2008, 03:22 AM

Entertainment is no longer an illustration minor fyi.

They want to see your ideation skills the most. Scott wants to see you develop something over time and advance it through the production process up to a final concept sketch. Figure drawing and painting is not necessary in his portfolio, but 1 page of it (montage several of them) will be fine.

I just went through the Art Center Course Catalog for 2009/2010.
http://artcenter.edu/catalog/
After looking at the Entertainment Design and Illustration programs, i have a few questions i would like to ask.

1) Is someone who's majoring in Illustration with an Entertainment track studying the same stuff as somebody who's majoring in Entertainment. I spotted some similar modules in both Majors.

2) I noticed that in the Entertainment Design page, the Courses of Study and Course Descriptions are totally different. What are the differences in the two if there are any.

3) I read through the past few pages of this thread and read about both the Illustration and Entertainment Majors and was wondering, if i want to do Illustrations for trading cards, magazines, comics and etc and also be a concept artist for games/film and animation like aleksi, jason chan and marko etc which Major should i be looking at. Also, are finished concepts done in Entertainment brought to finished Illustrations? (I was thinking similar things that are being taught at the Concept Design Academy)

Thank You

Justin.

October 12th, 2008, 10:30 AM

Entertainment design USED to be an illustration track. Now, illustration majors can not take entertainment classes.

If you want a job in the concept industry by any means, go for entertainment design. Illustration teaches very little if at all about constructing of form in perspective, which is crucial. You know alot of concept guys like Feng zhu, vyle, etc. began as "product design" or "industrial design" majors? at Art center, there are 3 "industrial design majors", which means we all have the same first year, called IDF or Industrial design foundations. Those majors are Transportation, Product, and the new Entertainment major. The classes consist of getting a good ground in industrial design techniques that allow you to accurately and freely depict and construct form in space from any angle, light it correctly, cast the correct shadows, and render materials correctly. Illustration does not take these classes. They are reserved for the 3 industrial design majors.

There IS an Entertainment ARTS part of illustration, which is more if you want to work at disney. It teaches visual development techniques for games and animation and movies.

No major will get you trading card jobs, that's your deal. If you do good work, you can get whatever work you want. If you are planning on doing freelance while in school and you aren't in illustration, you can forget it. I'm not trying to scare you, I'm completely serious. You have no time to do anything but sleep, do homework, and eat. Most of the time you'll do all 3 at once. The first class' homework was just a few pages of freehand 1 point perspective and 2 point perspective boxes. maybe a 5 hour assignment? wrong. Try 25 hours. 25 hours and half a ream of copy paper just to learn to draw a straight line. That's only 1 class, you'll have 7 for most of the term, and 8 towards the end. We got lucky too, our homework is a bit less than a few terms ago. Where in Study models, we only had to do 3 foam core cubes, they had to do 8. each one takes 4 hours, not including screw-ups.

You will get better faster than you can believe as long as you care about your work. If you don't like homework and you don't want to learn perspective or form building, then go illustration.

btw, just watched the sun rise from campus.

it's beautiful.

a la bapsi

October 12th, 2008, 12:07 PM

i think i'm one of the many who are split between the arts and design majors lol

fredcheng1987

October 12th, 2008, 11:03 PM

i heard that it's harder to get into entertainment design if you are already in other majors in artcenter because there's a long waiting list
does it just apply for people that's already in artcenter before entertainment become a new major? or it also apply to people who are planning to change their major to ed in the next fall?

Justin.

October 13th, 2008, 10:07 PM

From this term forward, no more transfers from within the school will be allowed. If you are transferring from illustration, you need to start back at term 1, if you come from trans or product, you start at term 3 (unless you haven't gotten that far yet). The waiting list does not affect fresh applicants for this next year coming up. Put up your strongest, because that's who will be successful. All of our classes from 3rd term and onward are hand-picked for us, and we are so packed with classes that we can't take any electives, and it's very very difficult for other major students to take entertainment classes.

I have maybe 20 friends in illustration, and all of them have told me they have way less homework than we do. We have on average 50 or more hours per week of hw. The estimates I've heard for illustration are around 20-30. I've been spending the nights at school more often, til around 12-1 AM. half for fun, half to get work done. It's a very workable atmosphere.

I'm going to try putting up some pictures here of campus.

fredcheng1987

October 14th, 2008, 01:14 AM

yea , i know we need to start from the beginning if we want to go into ed, just wonder if they gonna view my portfolio in the same standard as the pp who are not in artcenter before , thz for clear that up
btw do you know how the loans work? do we get that before we pay the tuition and do we have other form to fill other then fafsa? and do we pay the tuition by semester or something else? ty so much

Brashen

October 14th, 2008, 07:02 AM

Hah Justin you've been a great help and if and when I get to AC watch out for a burly 200pounder running at you to give you a bear hug!!

Riiroi

October 14th, 2008, 07:29 AM

Hey Justin,

Thanks for answering my questions with such patience. The reason why i asked those questions was mainly because i felt that the Entertainment Design Major concentrated more on environment, vehicle and weapon/prop design then character and creature design. (i looked at quite a few graduates and while most of them had lots of environment and vehicle concepts, they didn't have much character or creature concepts to show)

I have another question. It states that they want to see concepts for a story in the portfolio. I was wondering, must the story already exist? Is it possible for me to use a story that is written by my friend?

Thanks a bunch

Justin.

October 14th, 2008, 11:01 AM

You can, they don't really care about the story, they just want to see a consistent universe.

Brashen, it's dangerous to hug someone with an xacto blade in their hand >:D

The conclusion that I have come to, is that as far as figure work goes, I got pretty far without school, but all I did was work on figures. I didn't even know about industrial design principles. I'm here mostly to learn Industrial design because you'll notice a trend with the really huge concept artists... 80-90% of the time, they have industrial design backgrounds. You can learn how to do character/illustration work on your own... but industrial design is fairly tailored, and learning on your own is far more difficult. In a nutshell, Entertainment gives you a solid foundational skill set, and gives you challenges you'll actually face in the industry (by people who actually work in the industry, my vis com 1 teacher works at rhythm & hues, another teacher works at dreamworks, I'm sure you all know Scott (who also teaches a few of the classes)- you don't get the same exposure at other schools or even in other majors.

I did alot of research before coming here, and for me, it came down to this; if I wanted to work in the industry, this was the only program in the world that would give me what I wanted. Foundations, challenges, connections, friends, experiences. The program is heavily controlled, but I view that as a good thing. The only 3d we learn is a little bit of sketchup to do layouts to make production faster. No texturing, no animation, no lighting. We use pen, paper, and photoshop.

anyways, good luck to you guys!

Brashen

October 14th, 2008, 05:42 PM

HAhaha I'll keep that in mind and thanks!!

a la bapsi

October 14th, 2008, 11:57 PM

Hah Justin you've been a great help and if and when I get to AC watch out for a burly 200pounder running at you to give you a bear hug!!

d'awwwwwwwww~

burning_chrome

October 15th, 2008, 05:17 PM

Got my acceptance package from Art Center on Oct. 7th, now I just have one major question:

What are the current non-federal loan options available for first term undergrads entering Spring 2009? And yes, I have called the Financial Aid office at Art Center to ask but no one picks up and they have not returned my voicemails.

Student loans from commerical banks would be fine (even with high interest rates given the current financial mess), but with the banking meltdown that's taken place, what are the chances to secure funding via that route?

FYI, my finanical aid package is still being formulated, but I'm not anticipating serious funding from Art Center, so student loans are going be the only way to pay for my stay - unless my weekly lottery ticket finally hits!

Thanks in advance :)

Justin.

October 15th, 2008, 05:43 PM

no idea for that one. My loans go through the federal PLUS program. Good luck though, this is probably the most frustrating part of going in.

evildisco

October 15th, 2008, 06:41 PM

I would like to make some clarifications to what Justin has previously said that will probably confuse things even further. Going through Entertainment Design or Illustration Design or whatever else, does not determine what you end up doing work-wise. And most certainly none of these majors "guarantee" you work regardless of what you have been told. Just because you spend 150k for education it does not qualify you automatically for anything.

ON a different note, in contrast to what Justin says, I do not believe the closed track approach that Entertainment Design has opted is a good thing. I did not go into that major for the simple fact that it is constricting and limits my options and skillset. I consider myself versatile and I want to bank on versatility and survivability. Don't put all your money on one single bet because there is a lot of people that want to do what you want to do and chances are there are always people who are a whole lot better than you(I'm talking in general terms).

My point in saying this is in the hope that we can go back to the tradition that has been lost at Art Center of trans-disciplinary education.

So keep your head open for as many ideas as possible, don't pidgeonhole yourself even before you went into the marketplace.

Justin.

October 15th, 2008, 09:06 PM

I agree with alot of what you're saying, but I think Entertainment is more transdisciplinary than you think. We spend alot of time around both product and transportation designers, we take model building classes and illustration classes that incorporate elements of all 3 majors. What makes transportation or product different from entertainment? If anything, they narrow themselves even further in terms of cirriculum. What happens if a trans guy gets tired of cars? He can't start drawing dragons for a living. I don't see entertainment as a closed track like you and stevekim, I see it as the starting point. The industrial design foundation that it gives us is the exact same as the illustration foundations you gain by drawing and painting from life. I don't think the school or major is capable of 'pidgeonholing' a person, I think that comes down to the person's personality and whether they choose to have an open mind or not.

evildisco

October 15th, 2008, 11:07 PM

That is very true, it comes down to the person and not the institution, but some teachers and chairs could encourage more "crosspollination" for lack of better word.

s_messing

October 17th, 2008, 03:28 AM

artdude89

October 21st, 2008, 02:23 AM

is the third term illustration transfer people also taking the IDF courses as well?

also, since i plan to get into the ent. major in fall 09 and i already took two term of illustration. Would they still accept third term transfer or do i have to start from term 1?

evildisco

October 21st, 2008, 04:44 AM

No the curriculums are mostly separate nowadays, academics maybe but not the rest.

Riiroi

October 22nd, 2008, 06:54 AM

Riiroi- If you want to do character work, try to find the best character design teachers regardless of major. Do not let a track program limit your learning. I enjoyed the freedom of tailoring my own education while at art center, now it appears to be a much more rigid program (for good or bad)

Is Kevin Chen still teaching there? I know he still teaches classes at his design academy with many other industry professionals in pasadena. You might also think about taking workshops with designers like Ryan Meinerding, Charlie Wen, etc -as those are rare opportunities that few artists have access to.

-Steve

Thanks for the suggestion Steve. Will do just that if/when i manage to get into Art Center. I was actually thinking of going to LAAFA while at Art Center and was wondering if anybody knows how long one takes to go to LAAFA from Pasadena as i've heard that many Art Center students enroll in its part-time programs.

JoshK

October 25th, 2008, 11:47 PM

pasadena to laafa is around 25-40 mins depending on where you are....

pipermints

October 27th, 2008, 12:31 AM

are spots filling up for illustration this spring soon?

anhedonic analog.

October 27th, 2008, 01:07 AM

Hey I'm Justin's roommate Alex also doing 1st term Entertainment Design.

I'd like to add on to what Justin has been saying concerning Entertainment Design vs. Illustration-Entertainment Arts.

What David Levy told me is that how well something is illustrated is just masturbation (November 2008 ImagineFX cover for example - beautifully illustrated, but the design is pretty weak). How well you design is where you need to capitalize your energy. It seems like a contradiction, as we need to 'illustrate' our designs as the way we communicate visually, however the design needs to come first, and your illustrative skills should serve only to communicate your idea.

Take Daniel Simon (Cosmic Motors dude). His sketches aren't that breathtaking, but his 3D definitely work is. And that's how he communicates his amazing designs, without being awesome at illustration. (I might add: he had a solid ID background before he got bad-ass at 3D)

To get back to choosing which major, the question you need to ask yourself is do you want to be a designer, or do you want to be an illustrator. Concept design is all about problem solving and coming up with the best possible solution to a prop/character/environment/etc, and not how pretty you can make it look (illustration). That's why Industrial Design Foundations are so important. They teach you how do draw your design in a way that will work. With solid ID skills, you can draw a design of say a vehicle at any angle correctly so that the next step in the production doesn't have to interpret it, and to assure that it will look the way you designed it. If you do a drawing of a vehicle and the perspective is off, the 3D model will look very different to what you had in mind.

The consensus of what several pros have said, is that the majority of jobs in the industry are environment, prop and vehicle. It makes sense as in any story you only have a handful of characters, but a myriad of scenery and objects they interact with. That means that your chances of landing a character job are much less likely, unless you're a total bad-ass at characters.

From what I've heard from upper-termers, is that the Entertainment Arts people aren't very motivated and don't take their work too seriously. If you're looking for super-talented and super-motivated peers, Entertainment Design is the way to go. Even if it's not the Entertainment Kids, The Trans and Prod people are like that too. Especially Trans I'd say, as it is I think the hardest major to get into.

Also if you feel the Entertainment Design major isn't offering everything you want, keep in mind that Art Center is in the top 3 ID schools in the world, and that LA has LAAFA and Concept Design Academy for extra courses, not to mention that you can most probably take extra illustration stuff during your summer terms, as Entertainment Design is only Fall and Spring Terms.

Justin.

October 27th, 2008, 09:22 AM

Take Daniel Simon (Cosmic Motors dude). His sketches aren't that breathtaking, but his 3D definitely work is.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. (http://www.danielsimon.net/artdata/ships/spaceshipselector.html)

anhedonic analog.

October 28th, 2008, 09:52 PM

yeah you're totally right. I had his ideation thumbnails in mind, the stuff on his web page are worked, more final sketches.

burning_chrome

October 29th, 2008, 06:32 AM

Can anyone please tell me which software programs are dominantly used for the Illustrations track; and how much of a student discount on software does one receive from the campus store?

Thanks.

Riiroi

October 29th, 2008, 07:28 AM

Thanks for the insight anhedonic analog and Joshk. Will definitely consider wisely now.

pipermints

October 30th, 2008, 05:38 AM

I just reread my acceptance letter 3 weeks later and I've completely missed one small detail. It says I've been admitted to the illustration dept as a SECOND term undergrad for spring? What does that mean? Does that mean I skip a term?

kryoth

October 30th, 2008, 05:03 PM

burning_chrome

November 1st, 2008, 09:23 AM

evildisco

November 1st, 2008, 05:06 PM

To get back to choosing which major, the question you need to ask yourself is do you want to be a designer, or do you want to be an illustrator. Concept design is all about problem solving and coming up with the best possible solution to a prop/character/environment/etc, and not how pretty you can make it look (illustration).

Sorry I have to disagree with that, Illustration in the editorial sense and also in the broader sense is just as much problem solving and design as it is making a pretty picture.
To say that normal illustration is just making a "pretty picture" is minimizing the work it takes to make that pretty picture.

For instance, I'm taking an Op Ed class this term and it comes down to problem solving rather than making a pretty picture. The aesthetic is secondary to the ability to convey the ideas that come from the opinion pieces.

So no I think the skill sets are similar and the problems we face in the respective industries are also very similar in essence.

evildisco

November 1st, 2008, 05:09 PM

Can anyone please tell me which software programs are dominantly used for the Illustrations track; and how much of a student discount on software does one receive from the campus store?

Thanks.

Don't buy from the student store, first off, academic superstore is much better for getting software and hardware normally, or amazon sometimes.

As for the predominant software probably you'll only use photoshop and illustrator. If you are interested in motion, final cut pro, aftereffects and a couple of other that I forget right now.
In entertainment design it is a good idea to familiarize yourself with Maya, Cinema 4d, Rhino, z-brush and the likes.

Gabriele

November 1st, 2008, 07:40 PM

anhedonic analog.

November 1st, 2008, 08:13 PM

Sorry I have to disagree with that, Illustration in the editorial sense and also in the broader sense is just as much problem solving and design as it is making a pretty picture.
To say that normal illustration is just making a "pretty picture" is minimizing the work it takes to make that pretty picture.

For instance, I'm taking an Op Ed class this term and it comes down to problem solving rather than making a pretty picture. The aesthetic is secondary to the ability to convey the ideas that come from the opinion pieces.

So no I think the skill sets are similar and the problems we face in the respective industries are also very similar in essence.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but getting back to choosing between Entertainment Arts and Entertainment Design, Ent Des is in my opinion, is a far better choice. You get a second term design class taught by Scott Robertson reserved for Ent Des majors exclusively. Scott also regularly invites prominent pros for presentations and networking opportunities. For example we had Doug Chiang visit two (?) weeks ago. And I'm not sure Entertainment Arts people were invited.

Also, to regurgitate what Justin was saying, the prominent concept pros are generally people with an Industrial Design background

Justin.

November 1st, 2008, 08:33 PM

If you want to do movies and games, go design. If you want to do book covers, posters, magazines, news papers- go for illustration. If you dont know what you want to do, I would say go ID because you will be more likely to get consistent work, but if you are really into figurative stuff, you will want to go illustration.

Gab, I know you used to do trans stuff, but I wish you'd be a tad more open minded about this stuff.... if you dont have anything constructive to add, don't add!

anhedonic analog.

November 1st, 2008, 08:46 PM

Hey Justin, Alex, or anyone else in AC Entertainment,

I'm working really hard on my portfolio right now and want to apply for Fall '09. Looking at the accepted portfolios, I realized that I still have a lot of work to do, and so I was wondering what kind of time frame would guys recommend I submit my application by. I work full-time as an engineer and only get to do art in the evenings and on weekends, so I'd love to get some idea on how much sleep I gotta skip on to put this together in time :)

Thanks a lot!

-Kirill

Oh, and here's my deviantArt page (http://kiril27.deviantart.com/gallery/) in case you wanna see.

If it's truly your passion, you will always find time. Once you're in the program, unless you have excellent time management, you won't be getting much sleep, so I guess start getting used to it?

As for submission deadlines, get in touch with the admissions office to see how fast the major is filling up, as well as scholarship and final deadlines. Having regular feedback and contact with admissions people doesn't hurt either.

evildisco

November 1st, 2008, 09:10 PM

Gabriele I'm always very confused by your meme usage.

pipermints

November 2nd, 2008, 03:43 AM

Did you apply with studio art credits? Or transfer a large number of liberal arts credits from another school? If so, then yes, I believe that means you've been skipped a term - lucky you - I also got my acceptance letter 3 weeks back and I'm going in (if I'm able to secure the financial aid) as a first term undergrad.

I don't really know what's transfering over but I took a bunch of AP tests in hs and have some liberal arts credits from being at usc for 1.5 yrs. I don't think studio credit will transfer from there. But admissions told me they judged on skill level for what term you're placed. Excited for spring?!

burning_chrome

November 2nd, 2008, 08:49 AM

Don't buy from the student store, first off, academic superstore is much better for getting software and hardware normally, or amazon sometimes.

As for the predominant software probably you'll only use photoshop and illustrator. If you are interested in motion, final cut pro, aftereffects and a couple of other that I forget right now.
In entertainment design it is a good idea to familiarize yourself with Maya, Cinema 4d, Rhino, z-brush and the likes.

Thanks for the info ! If you don't mind, may I ask if it would be possible to shift over to Entertainment Design if a person enters as an Illustrations major? I worked on my portfolio gearing it towards Illustrations and did not discover Art Center and Entertainment Design until about 8 months ago, but I feel that I would be a far better fit for movies and games rather than books and magazines.

burning_chrome

November 2nd, 2008, 09:05 AM

I don't really know what's transfering over but I took a bunch of AP tests in hs and have some liberal arts credits from being at usc for 1.5 yrs. I don't think studio credit will transfer from there. But admissions told me they judged on skill level for what term you're placed. Excited for spring?!

I believe that your AP credits would definitely transfer - as long as you made at least a 4 or better - since it hasn't been that long ago when you took them. As for studio art credits, I definitely think Art Center would accept any studio art credits you gained (probably if they were B+ or higher) while at USC.

Not so much excited right now as I am pensive about financial aid; I called the fin aid office and asked about alternative loan sources and found out - much to my chagrin - that due to the banking fallout in the past few months, the lenders willing to provide money without co-signers have pretty much gone the way of the dinosaurs.

I'll feel better or worse after I get my financial aid package. Honestly, I'm not expecting any major funding coming my way, so yeah, Spring 09 attendance and on might be in doubt.

Justin.

November 2nd, 2008, 10:39 AM

burning_chrome

November 2nd, 2008, 01:27 PM

FYI: Entertainment is a unique major at art center; It is only active for the fall and spring, and is Fall entrance only. Most majors you can apply 3 times per year, and finish in 2.5 years... Ent is more traditional school, with summer for people to take internships or go to the Concept Design Academy, or just do their own thing.

Hey Justin, just wondering: do you know how many people in the full-time Entertainment Design program transferred over from Ent Desig at Art Center at Night? The night program might be a viable possibility for me if financial aid doesn't pan out.

Justin.

November 2nd, 2008, 02:39 PM

alot of them. If I had to guess I'd say half- but a substantial amount of us did (not me personally)

you should talk to ladylioness about it. She's super super helpful (she's in entertainment, came from AC@N)

evildisco

November 2nd, 2008, 02:45 PM

chrome, they used to tell students to go through some ACAN and community college before applying. So yes it is completely viable. I did that for a long while before applying and it gave me an edge to some extent.
So if financially you can't just yet get into the day program I'd say that is your best option. DO bear in mind that stuff you might take at say PCC doesn't transfer anymore as it used and the same can be said for other community colleges. I had only 11 credits transferred out of 56.

burning_chrome

November 2nd, 2008, 04:28 PM

fredcheng1987

November 6th, 2008, 01:22 PM

when and how do you find out how many credits transferred out from pcC? do they tell you after you deposit the 200$ tuition?

evildisco

November 6th, 2008, 01:24 PM

They tell you online in the degree audit after you're registered in the system.

pipermints

November 6th, 2008, 07:44 PM

I'm looking for housing for the upcoming spring near school but don't know where to start. Any suggestions?

evildisco

November 6th, 2008, 09:35 PM

Pasadena, Altadena, Alhambra, South Pasadena, Eagle Rock and Glendale those are your best bets right now in terms of distance.

Check craigslist or go check the bulletin boards at school they have some offers once in a while.

burning_chrome

November 6th, 2008, 09:47 PM

anhedonic analog.

November 7th, 2008, 08:25 AM

Thanks for the replies guys. Here are some follow-up questions if you'd be willing to answer:
1) How long did you attend the ACAN Ent. Design program before transferring over to ACCD undergrad?
2) Do you feel that the ACCD full-time undergrad program offers substantial advantages to ACAN? If so, please specify.
3) Did you guys work part or full time while attending ACAN?

1 I did Intro to entertainment at AC@N and concept design academy over the summer for a term, and then got accepted into the full-time program this fall. The AC@N program for entertainment is really only one specific class, it's introductory and it doesn't progress from term to term.

Concept design academy is awesome, taught by bad-ass industry pros! look into it if you're not looking into Entertainment Undergrad at Art Center (and definitely when you're not in term if you're accepted)

2 Absolutely. AC@N doesn't have any kind of application process (except fro classes that ask for a prerequisite), so you peers are not going to be at the same level as those who went through submitting a portfolio and accepted into the undergrad program. Intro to ED is in many ways a class to build a portfolio to apply to the undergraduate program.

The Undergrad program is full time = more mileage faster = better teachers = more specific classes (at least in upper terms)

unless
If your fundamentals are very (very) strong, I suppose you could build an industry-worthy portfolio just by going to Concept Design Academy.

3
I had a lot of free time and searched for a job the whole time without success (economy, having big piercings...) But working part-time and taking night and weekend classes sounds like a good idea if you have financial doubts. (I say part-time, since most of the work you will do is at home, and you'll need as many hours as you can make)

burning_chrome

November 7th, 2008, 05:37 PM

THANK YOU very much for all your responses ! :)

I'm definitely more assured about attending ACCD as a full-time undergrad if financial aid and student loans come through.

fredcheng1987

November 7th, 2008, 11:35 PM

To all applicants who applied and were accepted for the Spring 2009 term, have you received your Finanical Aid package yet?

I'm getting nervous that I'll have to call and ask about deferring entrance until Summer 09 since I'll still (most likely) have to apply for loans and work out moving to California.

me too
i think they come when they told us if we get the scholarships or not?
it's been about 3 1/2 weeks after they sent me the letter
they said they will tell us about the scholarships after 4~6 weeks ? @ - @

pipermints

November 8th, 2008, 02:45 AM

I heard they come out Nov 15th but I'm not sure. I hope you gets get aid! Out of curiosity do you guys have your portfolios online?

burning_chrome

November 8th, 2008, 12:00 PM

I called the admissions office and a school rep told me that the Financial Aid would be getting sent out week of Nov. 15.

When I asked about alternative, private student loans the admissions rep told me that most of the banks willing to lend without co-signers are now gone.

Good news is that deferring until Summer 2009 term is possible (for Illustrations at least), but the bad news is that if you've already paid your $200 deposit for Spring, you'll have to pay another 200 buckaroos to secure a place for Summer :(

Piper, please check your PMs, I sent you a link for my portfolio.

fredcheng1987

November 8th, 2008, 04:43 PM

crap no loans = =
i hope they give me enu schlarship = - =
so you guys got into illustration? are you still applying for spring or waiting for summer ?I'm not sure yet, i guess i need to wait for the financial aid thing
burn:sent me a link too ~ i wanna see
piper: i was too lazy to take pic @ - @ I may do it a bit later

pipermints

November 8th, 2008, 06:46 PM

i accepted for spring already and got my letter back today. says i got 2.5k scholarship and 1-2k in loans i think.

a la bapsi

November 8th, 2008, 08:01 PM

grats, guys! :D

show us your portfolios sometime~

fredcheng1987

November 8th, 2008, 08:24 PM

congrat ~

damn i checked my mail and it's not here yet
i'm nervous T - T

burning_chrome

November 8th, 2008, 09:10 PM

private loans are still available, just that not many (if any) lenders out in California will give you the money without co-signers thanks to recent economic times.

don't worry fred, I still haven't gotten my financial aid package yet, but I'm sure it depends a large part on how far you live away from the West Coast.

Link sent...

fredcheng1987

November 8th, 2008, 10:43 PM

I live so close to pasadena = 3 =" ( 25~30 min freeway to hillside campus)
btw have you decide what track you planning to be in yet?
I saw wolverine :] you wanna do comic stuff?

pipermints

November 8th, 2008, 11:15 PM

I'm sure it will come soon. : D I live half an hour away local so pretty close. Are you gonna be commuting? And maybe I'll take pics of my stuff sometime when I'm not lazy too.

fredcheng1987

November 9th, 2008, 01:34 AM

yea , i live in arcadia ,so it's pretty close
I wanna get my own apartment but tuition is hard enu,
extra $ for renting is not an option :[

burning_chrome

November 9th, 2008, 09:38 AM

I'm hoping to be on the entertainment illustration track, but I suspect that path might be a very popular one. I would love to do comics for either of the Big Two, I'd just think that it would get real old real fast doing art depicting mostly Greek gods in spandex.

I hear ya on the rent - I'm grinding my teeth and shaking my head in disbelief when I browse around apartments nearby Pasadena.

Justin.

November 9th, 2008, 12:36 PM

When you say entertainment illustration track, you know you are talking about entertainment arts. not entertainment design. You can't transfer from illustration to Entertainment design anymore, because entertainment design has specific foundations you need to take that you cant take in illustration.

burning_chrome

November 9th, 2008, 01:32 PM

That's a definitive yes on the Entertainment Arts and NOT Entertainment Design track; I didnt' even know that entertainment design existed as a real major until encountering it on the ACCD website.

I'm hoping that during some (or all) of my off/lite terms I'll be able to take some courses and/or workshops at the Concept Design Academy if the entertainment design bug bites and sticks with me.

nicehighs

November 17th, 2008, 01:13 AM

man, i'm definitely going to go to the art center in pasadena calif, Im gonna have three room mates to help cover rent. I'm gonna give myself a year to save up rent before I make the move out there and draw from life more and everyday. All of my favorite artist went there and I definitely want to pick the professors brains!!!!! I have no idea what major i'm gonna choose but I have a year to decide.

evildisco

November 18th, 2008, 05:17 PM

Try some art center at night if you move here earlier, it might give you an idea on what to do. Good luck in any case.

burning_chrome

November 19th, 2008, 10:15 AM

Hey disco, or anyone else willing to respond:

What do you know about the Los Angeles Academy of Figurative Arts (http://www.laafa.org/)?

There's a thread on ConceptArt regarding LAAFA vs Art Center (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=90516) but in-depth compare/contrast posts about quality of education, internship opportunities, or career placement post grad are absent.

If anyone has first or second hand knowledge about LAAFA, please, post up. Art Center looks FANTASTIC in my estimation, but 30,000+/yr in tuition costs alone is not sitting well with me in this current economic environment.
I really like the classical approach of LAAFA and their students' results are quite impressive from what I've seen both here (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=90666)and on their site.

evildisco

November 19th, 2008, 12:03 PM

LAAFA is pretty good, besides Rey Bustos (whom I greatly dislike), I think that the faculty is pretty decent. I really don't know much else other than what you stated about the more classical approach.

Jonas Heirwegh

November 19th, 2008, 12:33 PM

Hey burning chrome, I posted my opinion about both schools here.
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1794189&postcount=72

Art Center is without a doubt a great school, but from what I have seen and heard there are some very important things lacking. Foundation is one of them. And while they still teach some foundation, it is just not enough. Unless you are already trained and have mastered the foundation skills.
I think its very important to take your time to develop and master all the basic or fundamental skills before jumping into design and for foundation laafa is the better choice imo.
They also teach design at laafa but you can't really compare that to art center because that's not their focus.
But there is an alternative imo and that is the concept design academy from Kevin Chen. I took all the classes for one term and all the information is there, I mean its cheap and you really have awesome teachers. What more can you ask for:)
Kevin teaches the exact same character design class at his school and accd btw.

If you have more questions just ask.

fredcheng1987

November 19th, 2008, 04:59 PM

kevin's classes are more focus on the entertainment industry
only a few class also help illustration,and there's not that much of classes you can pick

burning_chrome

November 19th, 2008, 05:13 PM

Thanks for your replies guys.

Quick question: on the application form for admissions into LAAFA it states that they require you to submit a portfolio containing no more than ten and no less than five current works of art. However, it never indicates in what format, i.e. photo, slides, originals, for the portfolio submission.

Any help would be good.

Epias: how difficult is it to secure classes at Concept Design Center - I know from bouncing around here on ConceptArt that it is highly regarded (and rightfully so), but I would think that class sign-ups would go super quick given the industry pros teaching there.

I'm totally with you about the need to possess strong Foundational skills and if Art Center doesn't quite satisfy the key bases, I'm thinking LAAFA is a better starting point.

burning_chrome

November 19th, 2008, 07:17 PM

Okay, I called up LAAFA and the rep told me that they'll accept slides and digital images for portfolio submissions.

Now, a question for individuals currently attending Art Center:
Do you guys feel that the foundation courses/skills taught are adequate (for illustrations at least)? FYI, I have been accepted for Spring 09 entrance into ArtCenter, I'm 90% self-taught, so whatever foundation I have, it's all from trial and error.

evildisco

November 19th, 2008, 08:50 PM

In my opinion, no the foundation is lacking compared to what it used to be. I know for a fact that they cut some classes that used to be required and they mashed together things like head and hands into one single class.

I'm sort of lucky because I went through 4 years of PCC and other schools plus ACAN, so I got a bunch of foundation to complement that lack.
But I can't help but feel that foundation is being neglected.

burning_chrome

November 19th, 2008, 09:25 PM

nicehighs

November 19th, 2008, 11:50 PM

Thanks evil disco, burning chrome is all that necessary? If the classes transfer that's good but you would be in school for like ever if they don't IDK.

nicehighs

November 20th, 2008, 12:20 AM

OMG, the concept design academy is like cheap........ I might go there wow.

burning_chrome

November 20th, 2008, 01:26 AM

The good thing about LAAFA and ACAN is that they offer short term classes (2-3 months per term/quarter), so even if they don't transfer credits, it certainly wouldn't hurt in the foundational skills dept along with increasing the possibility for Art Center scholarship money (not holding my breath on that one though).

nicehighs

November 20th, 2008, 01:37 AM

ahhh ok ok I see I understand what you're doing now. Makes sense to get your foundation on. I was thinking they were like a year or something.

Jonas Heirwegh

November 20th, 2008, 07:57 AM

Thanks for the response disco.

Given the info thus far, I may do a year or two at LAAFA or ACAN coupled with classes from Concept Design Academy, if time permits, before considering Art Center full-time undergrad.

If you do lets say 2 years at laafa where you get a very solid foundation and then you focus another year on design and storytelling you probably dont even need art center to get a really good portfolio.

Also what I feel is very important is the fact that you get a more individual guidance at laafa and the concept academy because the classes are small. The teachers can follow your progress allot better, etc..

On the other side you will probably get more connections at art center, get to know more people, etc.. Although that depends alot on who you are imo.
And you have allot more possibilities at art center to work on big projects, more resources, big library, etc...
So you know there are pro's and con's offcourse.

OMG, the concept design academy is like cheap........ I might go there wow.

That was exactly what I was thinking when I found out that some classes are the same classes you pay alot more money for at accd.
Offcourse you have more different classes at accd to pick from but I see it this way. All the information and guidance you get at the concept academy will keep you busy for a while to understand and master. And trust me if you take notes in Kevin and Carlo's classes alone your head will explode.
A side note: They all emphasize on storytelling rather then just designing things so the information is just as good for an illustrator as for a concept designer.
After that it all depends on you because it all comes down to one thing and thats research.

burning_chrome

November 20th, 2008, 10:24 AM

If you do lets say 2 years at laafa where you get a very solid foundation and then you focus another year on design and storytelling you probably dont even need art center to get a really good portfolio.

Also what I feel is very important is the fact that you get a more individual guidance at laafa and the concept academy because the classes are small. The teachers can follow your progress allot better, etc..

On the other side you will probably get more connections at art center, get to know more people, etc.. Although that depends alot on who you are imo.
And you have allot more possibilities at art center to work on big projects, more resources, big library, etc...
So you know there are pro's and con's offcourse.

Thanks for all the info epias. I'm kinda surprised that given the number of industry pros working at both LAAFA and Concept Design Academy at any given time that they would still lag behind Art Center in terms of industry connections (other than automotive).

In any case, I'm filling out the application for admissions for Spring 2K9 at LAAFA and sending them my portfolio by Sat at the latest.

Last Question: What's the availability and avg. cost for living in the Van Nuys area where LAAFA is located? And how bad is the parking for the area where LAAFA is located?

Jonas Heirwegh

November 20th, 2008, 12:39 PM

Thanks for all the info epias. I'm kinda surprised that given the number of industry pros working at both LAAFA and Concept Design Academy at any given time that they would still lag behind Art Center in terms of industry connections (other than automotive).

In any case, I'm filling out the application for admissions for Spring 2K9 at LAAFA and sending them my portfolio by Sat at the latest.

Last Question: What's the availability and avg. cost for living in the Van Nuys area where LAAFA is located? And how bad is the parking for the area where LAAFA is located?

They are not so much lagging behind in terms of teachers or direct connections in the industry its just the name and world wide reputation accd has. But I really believe that if you deliver good work at laafa or the concept academy your work will get attention and it shouldnt take that long before your work gets seen by art directors etc...

Not sure about the living costs in Van Nuys, you should email Matt Marchant about that. I know its cheaper then Pasadena.

nicehighs

November 20th, 2008, 03:23 PM

Yeah, being that concept art academy is taught by pros I don't see any problems with getting connections because you know in the art world your skill speaks for itself. There are plenty of self taught who are doing just fine. Does anybody know if Khang Le still teaches there? He's my fave artist and if he doesn't that sucks man.

Jonas Heirwegh

November 20th, 2008, 05:43 PM

Khang Le never taught a class but he gives workshops every year. I took his vehicle workshop and yes he's awesome:)

JoshK

November 29th, 2008, 06:11 PM

I think art center is still a really good place to learn because of the friends and connections you make there. I took a class at CDA and it was great and learned a lot and i definitely recommended it because of the cost of art center and the connections you can make but it is different from art center. It has a more relaxed atmosphere while at art center I always felt like I needed to work till 7am because I know Friend A or B is staying up till 5am to come up with some crazy shit. Also everyone in the class get to know each other very well throughout the years (experiencing the good and bad) and I don't think you will always get that at CDA because most people only take a couple classes and don't always come back the next semester.

Your friends at Art Center are also your connections later on, just because they aren't in the industry right now doesn't mean they won't be later on. Also Art center has different programs so I pick up stuff from my editorial/fine art/trans...etc friends that helps me in my own work, i dunno, it makes you appreciate different types of art that isn't just about chicks with big guns, super rendered out robot, and moody painterly environments (I still geek out on these stuff though).

In the end I don't think either is better, it just depends on what you want to pick up and experience and whether you have enough funding. If I were to start over again, I will still choose to go to Art Center. Although I would recommend CDA for people that really are motivated and want to only do concept art. If you are really motivated, you can just stay in your room and come up with amazing stuff. Also if you do go to art center and don't care about that degree, I would recommend just leave as soon as you can get a job that you want.

Oh yea Kevin Chen is a natural teacher, take his class whenever you can

burning_chrome

November 30th, 2008, 12:13 PM

I think art center is still a really good place to learn because of the friends and connections you make there... at art center I always felt like I needed to work till 7am because I know Friend A or B is staying up till 5am to come up with some crazy shit.

I'm with you on this one - the one aspect of ArtCenter that graduates all seem to agree on (besides how expensive it was) from what I've read on the net is that it'll eat you up and spit you out, and if you should survive, there's nothing in the professional world you can't take on.

Your friends at Art Center are also your connections later on, just because they aren't in the industry right now doesn't mean they won't be later on. Also Art center has different programs so I pick up stuff from my editorial/fine art/trans...etc friends that helps me in my own work, i dunno, it makes you appreciate different types of art that isn't just about chicks with big guns, super rendered out robot, and moody painterly environments (I still geek out on these stuff though).

The availability of a multi-disciplinary environment certainly does offer creative advantages, but as previously mentioned, has ArtCenter seriously neglected foundational courses and skills that are now only available elsewhere? For over 30K/yr. that status quo seems iffy at best.

In the end I don't think either is better, it just depends on what you want to pick up and experience and whether you have enough funding...Also if you do go to art center and don't care about that degree, I would recommend just leave as soon as you can get a job that you want.

And that's the key word: Funding. Is it truly worth it to go into serious debt for an arts education that lacks foundational training for certain majors? Don't get me wrong, I would go in a heartbeat if I win the lottery, but the lack of foundation, lack of financial aid, and the cumulative 100K in debt at the end of my time does not sit well with me despite the long list of noteworthy ArtCenter alumni, professional connections, and on-campus job recruiters. I was thoroughly impressed with the courses offered a Concept Design Academy and when someone here mentioned LAAFA vs. ArtCenter, I looked into that possibility and now I'm leaning more towards LAAFA in terms of total cost and skills imparted.

JoshK

November 30th, 2008, 01:12 PM

Yea I agree going to Laafa is a good choice, very strong foundation programs. Just be careful not to fall in love with drawing and painting from life and end up with no imagination or sense of design, it is just practice and knowledge that makes your illustration/concept art better (btw I love to draw and paint from life). But if you want to be a gallery artist then laafa would be the place to go . They really have some great gallery artists there. BTW there are a couple people who only went to laafa and are amazing concept artists. Also a lot of older artists I've talked to (mainly in the animation industry) said eventually most artists will get sick of the entertainment industry and will want to paint for themselves (gallery...etc). Just something to think about too.

A lot of the foundation stuff can be learned from just going to workshops and drawing and painting from life whenever you are outside. Of course taking a couple foundation classes at laafa or CDA would make you better faster. Then you ask yourself, how good do you need to be at the foundation stuff to be a good concept artist? Do you need to be as good as richard schmid or jeremy lipking? Or just good enough to have the knowledge to apply that to your art? I know people who aren't too good at drawing and painting from life but they are freaking amazing when they draw from their head. Also this is just the figurative/natural landscape stuff, there is also the ID side of stuff to learn.

oh yea about the cost of art center, yea its expensive but if you are the lucky ones (talented) who get entering scholarships and get scholarships every term, you will be paying far less. Some of my friends are on full-rides or are paying only 3k right now and they still have 2-4 terms left. And from what I read it seems like a few of the entering ent design students are on half ride. I'm sure they will get scholarships from the scholarship review too(i think its 1k-2.5k which lasts for the rest of art center as long as you have good grades, some people get grants which last for one term). But this is just one group of people. There are a crap load of of people that don't get scholarships and they have to borrow loans and such (people like me lol). So what I'm trying to say is, yea its epensive unless you are lucky enough to get scholarship and even then it coud be more expensive than CDA or LAAFA.

Jonas Heirwegh

November 30th, 2008, 05:58 PM

I agree with you on most parts Josh, but..

I Although I would recommend CDA for people that really are motivated and want to only do concept art.

Why only concept art? Most classes emphasize on storytelling, even the life drawing classes from kevin. That's valuable for illustrators too. Don't narrow it down only to concept art because it's not. It's all about communicating a story, all necessary information for animators, illustrators, concept artists, comic book artists, storyboard artists etc...

But if you want to be a gallery artist then laafa would be the place to go.

And if you want to be a concept artist then laafa would be a great choice too. I think it's fundamental that a concept artist first learns how life looks like before he gets to designing things, not just a few life drawing workshops and your done..Really study life a few years, and that's where the foundation is so important imo. You will be a better designer in the end. And again the focus is narrative art, the design has to follow the story otherwise it's pointless. That's why Erik Tiemens is so great, Craig Mullins, Iain Mccaig, etc.. They had a classical foundation under their belt. I know Craig did study car design but the main reason why his stuff is so amazing is because he learned to tell a story by studying life, old masters, etc.. He can do gallery work if he wanted to, hell he even trained himself that way.
And there are more reasons why I think a strong foundation will make you a better designer in the end. Problem is that most kids are to impatient to do that.
For example, I see lots of people in the entertainment major drawing creatures, spacehips, etc as homework for their first term..I mean, how is that usefull? As a result you have allot of shapes on a piece of paper without making any sense, creatures without understanding anatomy, vehicles that are basically a bunch of shapes, etc..
Concept art isnt just about designing things...
Also, George Hull talked about this at the workshop when he was reviewing portfolio's. Most comments were on the lack of functionality and story. The design comes on the second place as the design has to support these two. He also said that he would rather see the understanding of real vehicles in a portfolio instead of imaginary stuff because once you know the real thing inside out it's pretty easy to come up with designs.

A lot of the foundation stuff can be learned from just going to workshops and drawing and painting from life whenever you are outside. Of course taking a couple foundation classes at laafa or CDA would make you better faster. Then you ask yourself, how good do you need to be at the foundation stuff to be a good concept artist? Do you need to be as good as richard schmid or jeremy lipking? Or just good enough to have the knowledge to apply that to your art? I know people who aren't too good at drawing and painting from life but they are freaking amazing when they draw from their head. Also this is just the figurative/natural landscape stuff, there is also the ID side of stuff to learn.

Unless you've been drawing serious for years but I doubt that you can learn most of the foundation by going to a few workshops. It's more about mileage I think, spending a good amount of time on it.
And offcourse you dont need to be as good as Richard Schmid or Lipking, that would take you more then a few years :)
You need a few years of foundation imo, all good (concept)artists have spend allot of time on it.
A few terms or classes is just not enough...
The conceptart atelier is a great example of this, they train their students in a similar way as laafa, a more classical training.

About the ID thing, I agree that's another side to learn. But the ID you need in the entertainment industry is a bit different then the one you need for real production imo.
If you can draw really good in general then ID can't be a problem if you know your perspective and if you are able to do great research. There are lots of artists who are really good at ID and never had a real ID education.

I don't think art center is a bad choice, far from it. I just think they made a few mistakes in their program as far as I can judge.

burning_chrome

November 30th, 2008, 09:34 PM

A lot of the foundation stuff can be learned from just going to workshops and drawing and painting from life whenever you are outside.

Why should I be attending outside workshops and painting from life on my own time when I'm forking out close to 30K a year in tuition money?

If the grand view of the operating curriculum from the Art Center school administrators is that they expect you to have the foundational stuff fully satisfied before entering, then they should state that fact explicitly and reject all applicants who do not demonstrate the basic standards.

Various Art Center students have mentioned at various times throughout this thread that once upon a time the foundational courses were more extensive and imparted the necessary building blocks for entering students, but alas, in more modern times, school admin has been consolidating or sacking foundational courses - and I'm willing to venture that the reasons all come down to budget considerations and meeting costs.

Justin.

November 30th, 2008, 10:13 PM

For example, I see lots of people in the entertainment major drawing creatures, spacehips, etc as homework for their first term..I mean, how is that usefull? As a result you have allot of shapes on a piece of paper without making any sense, creatures without understanding anatomy, vehicles that are basically a bunch of shapes, etc..
Concept art isnt just about designing things.

maybe look around a little more... "About the ID thing, I agree that's another side to learn. But the ID you need in the entertainment industry is a bit different then the one you need for real production imo."
didn't you just say earlier that.. "He also said that he would rather see the understanding of real vehicles in a portfolio instead of imaginary stuff because once you know the real thing inside out it's pretty easy to come up with designs."
If you look at all of the biggest names in Concept Design- the ones who have been around for a legendarily long time, working on big titles- they are all Industrial Designers who layered on illustration skills. There was no "entertainment design" when they went to school. Syd Mead, Mullins, David Levy, Daniel Simon, Mark Goerner, Neville Page- And it's been consistent through-out the past several years; The kids in Art center who go entertainment from Transportation and product go on to do better than most of the ones from illustration- that's fact. That's why the Entertainment Major is officially an ID program major.

Scott goes far far far far far out of his way to take care of us. He knows what we are giving up to be here (namely 30k a year), and he makes sure we get our money's worth. He will stay after class as long as you have questions. You can take up your sketchbook (not homework) after he's done with crits and he will talk about each page with you and tell you what you can do to work on your weakpoints, what direction to take things- I think I speak for most of us 1st termers when I say that We have complete faith in Scott's curriculum, and that if you want to do concept design, this is the place to be. Checking up on friends who went to every where else I thought about going- Ringling, SVA, etc.- I can say without a second thought Art Center was the best choice. I like being at a place where in my first semesters, one of my teachers took leave so they could go work on Tr2n. It's pretty reassuring.

and chrome...
Why should I be attending outside workshops and painting from life on my own time when I'm forking out close to 30K a year in tuition money?

I don't understand what you're getting at. Most people paint from life and go to outside workshops not because school isn't fulfilling, but because you have free time and want to get better. So far it seems to be pretty fulfilling. You aren't paying 30k per year for THE SCHOOL TO DO THE WORK, you are paying 30k a year for YOU to do the work (on top of resources, connections, environment, experience, etc).

burning_chrome

December 1st, 2008, 12:07 AM

I don't understand what you're getting at. Most people paint from life and go to outside workshops not because school isn't fulfilling, but because you have free time and want to get better. So far it seems to be pretty fulfilling. You aren't paying 30k per year for THE SCHOOL TO DO THE WORK, you are paying 30k a year for YOU to do the work (on top of resources, connections, environment, experience, etc).

And I have absolutely no expectations or illusions that the school will do any work - that's solely the responsibility of the individual artist, but my point is this: for the money involved, I DO EXPECT the school to provide me with a rock-solid foundational skill-set applicable to whichever artistic discipline I've chosen for the time at Art Center. Thus far, the response to my question concerning foundational classes has not imparted me with the greatest confidence:

In my opinion, no the foundation is lacking compared to what it used to be. I know for a fact that they cut some classes that used to be required and they mashed together things like head and hands into one single class.

I'm sort of lucky because I went through 4 years of PCC and other schools plus ACAN, so I got a bunch of foundation to complement that lack.
But I can't help but feel that foundation is being neglected.

I apologize if I misread JoshK's response (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2027815&postcount=1425) as 'Foundation may be lacking, but you can always acquire those skills easily elsewhere' instead of 'Art Center will give you a good foundation, but if you want to be better, the opportunities are there.' If the latter statement is what he meant, the misinterpretation is my own.

As for Scott Robertson, I'm sure he's every bit THE teacher/designer/artist that I've read him to be from various sources, but that's only one department at Art Center; obviously, not all departments are created equal and not all teachers are as talented and committed as Scott I'm sure. FYI, I'm looking to enter for Illustrations along with taking Entertainment Design courses at Concept Design Academy during off/lite terms if I should actually go to Art Center.

To sum it up, my contention is as follows: how can Art Center expect entering students to succeed in later terms in whichever discipline he or she has chosen if the basic, fundamental foundation courses simply do not exist or are a truncated version of their previous state?

If the Art Center approach is "Throw the kids into the deep end of pool and they'll either sink or swim real fast, real hard thru survival of the fittest" I think that it should be stated upfront that an individual's artistic development may be drastically increased and your money saved if you've taken foundation elsewhere before moving up into the deeper depths of the learning pool. I appreciate the resources, opportunities, and connections that comes along with the Art Center name and reputation, but educational quality and student preparedness should always be at the forefront of any institutional agenda.

Justin.

December 1st, 2008, 12:20 AM

Thanks for the clairty; as you've probably come to expect, if it's dealing with illustration I can't comment.

Jonas Heirwegh

December 1st, 2008, 10:07 AM

maybe look around a little more...

That wasnt personal Justin, and by no means an attack. I looked around trust me and offcourse not everybody is doing that but you cant deny that you see allot of those weird random shapes with nice rendering on top and call it a spaceship or anything else.
Mather of fact, when Syd Mead invited me a while back he looked at some portfolio from another student and that was exactly his comment. Nice rendering but the shapes dont tell what the vehicle IS, there wasnt any thought about function.
Form is supposed to follow function as you undoubtly know.
I can't help but feel that that is being neglected a bit at art center. It's definitely not the same as in the old art center days anymore.

If you look at all of the biggest names in Concept Design- the ones who have been around for a legendarily long time, working on big titles- they are all Industrial Designers who layered on illustration skills. There was no "entertainment design" when they went to school. Syd Mead, Mullins, David Levy, Daniel Simon, Mark Goerner, Neville Page- And it's been consistent through-out the past several years; The kids in Art center who go entertainment from Transportation and product go on to do better than most of the ones from illustration- that's fact. That's why the Entertainment Major is officially an ID program major.

The reason why those from illustration are doing worse in ent design is simple, they are missing a very important fundamental skill called perspective.
The guys who come from trans and product have had a really good perspective training, and drawing in general. They can put idea's down on paper much more easily. Plus the fact that the illustration major is lacking some serious foundation. It's pretty obvious why those from ID are doing better.

I agree that industrial design has fundamental parts in it that are necessary but I don't agree that you need an ID program to become as great as those guys.
It's obvious that Craig his work comes mainly from his illustration skills, composition, color, the figure, narrative, painting, mood, working from life, etc. He is also good at hard surface and man made stuff because he knows his perspective inside out. But to say that he is an industrial designer layered with illustration skills? It's really the opposite. Why do you think he went back to art center to study illustration? Because he wanted to have the academic and drawing skills they dont teach you at ID.
And there are tons of guys at the top that didnt study ID but illustration and still can do hard surface, look at the black frog for example. It's more a matter of knowing and mastering perspective in combination with great research, you don't necessary need an ID program for that unless you want to focus on ID solely.

Scott is awesome and his program is well thought out but to me its missing allot of important things. Take a look at the conceptart atelier from Jason, they must know what they are doing right? Correct me if I'm wrong but the main focus in that atelier is illustration skills. And they can do spaceships, interiors, etc because they also get a good amount of perspective study.

Anyway we can discuss this endless. People will just have to research schools themselfs. For some maybe it is exactly what they are looking for and others will look elsewhere to get what they want.
I just want to say this so students can think about it and then make a choice.

f1sh

December 2nd, 2008, 03:27 AM

I think that it should be stated upfront that an individual's artistic development may be drastically increased and your money saved if you've taken foundation elsewhere before moving up into the deeper depths of the learning pool.

I agree with this. When it comes down to it though, Art Center is a business and businesses are always going to do what's profitable in the end. If they need to accept students who don't have the necessary foundation to then that's what they'll do.

But even though their admissions practices might not exactly be ethical, I don't think that diminishes the quality of the education in any way. In reality what changes isn't how good the education is, but the skill level of entering students. Art Center has always been a school for older or more experienced students, many of which who have had prior training or even experience in the field. It established its reputation as being almost a sort of trade school after all. As a result, most of its programs are tailored for those who already have some sort of foundational background.

When researching the school I constantly read about Art Center becoming more lenient with its admissions requirements because they needed funding for new architectural developments or whatever. Obviously this is going to result in people coming in who aren't quite ready to take advantage of what Art Center has to offer. I suppose there have been a lot of grads from Art Center recently who didn't feel adequately prepared for the professional environment, probably because they expected strong foundational training and didn't get it. Although Art Center is definitely at fault here for letting people in who weren't ready, ultimately, the responsibility lies with the student. If you're truly motivated and passionate about your work, you'll find a way to learn what you need to learn. I know 30k+/yr is a ton of money and I realize that in terms of cost-to-benefit ratio, it may not be the right choice depending on what your goals are, but Art Center is still without a doubt the place to go to for industrial design. This alone makes Art Center worth it to me, if only because ID training as strong as theirs is basically impossible to find anywhere else. Being able to ideate quickly in perspective will be the main factor in differentiating yourself from other concept artists once you enter the field.

I think a lot of people have the idea that Art Center will somehow magically turn you into a great artist, without any effort on the student's part to figure out exactly what he or she needs to learn. I mean, after all, you are paying like what, 10, 20 times as much as you would at LAAFA? I guess when you're spending that much money, you kind of expect magic to happen. Of course it doesn't, and the guys that keep spending that money wishing that it will are ultimately jobless when they graduate. To me that kind of attitude is a bit childish. These people feel a sense of entitlement and superiority and when the results aren't up to par, they blame the school. It's a natural reaction to have I guess but it won't really change anything unless they're willing to adopt a different mindset. If anything I think that ridiculous sum of money should motivate you to work even harder, because if you don't succeed here, you're going to be seriously fucked when you're without a job and in 200k+ in debt. If that's not enough to wake you up, I don't know what will.

Overall I look at Art Center as a way of polishing your skills and learning how to work quickly and efficiently. If you go in to Art Center not knowing how to draw, chances are you'll come out not knowing how to draw. They teach professionalism and they teach design and figuring out to make use of those skills is up to you. Epias mentioned before that Art Center isn't necessary to end up with a spectacular portfolio and I completely agree, I've seen lots of artists coming out of smaller schools who are crazy, crazy good. But when I look at guys like Syd Mead and Sparth and David Levy and Craig Mullins and all those guys that Justin mentioned, I can't help but think that their work stands out amongst other concept artists. And if you do a little research on their education, it's pretty obvious why.

Anyways I went to an atelier before going to Art Center so I never paid much attention to the illustration foundation or whatever programs they had there. All of the crazy work I saw coming out of Art Center was always ID-related stuff so I figured that's what I'd go there for. I figure if you can try and get the best of both worlds, illu and ID, then you're pretty much set.

"Throw the kids into the deep end of pool and they'll either sink or swim real fast, real hard thru survival of the fittest"
Oh yeah, and that's definitely the Art Center approach, so if you ever feel like going, my advice to you is "learn to swim, real fast". :)

Jonas Heirwegh

December 2nd, 2008, 05:14 AM

Sparth never went to Art Center.
And yes for industrial design Art Center is probably among the best in the world.
I agree that accd shouldnt let people in without the necessary foundation but then again it became more of a business and since the last couple of years everybody could attend as long as you pay the tuition. Really if anyone is considering Art Center you better already now how to draw really well.
Realize that when Syd Mead entered Art Center he could already draw anything REALLY REALLY good.

Justin.

December 2nd, 2008, 04:30 PM

Sparth never went to Art Center.

.... nobody said that.. but for that matter David didn't either. We're just talking about the potency of industrial design in the concept realm.

burning_chrome

December 2nd, 2008, 07:37 PM

When it comes down to it though, Art Center is a business and businesses are always going to do what's profitable in the end. If they need to accept students who don't have the necessary foundation to then that's what they'll do.

If nothing else, recent events on Wall Street have shown that managing a business on the premise of doing what's profitable at any and all costs without consideration of long-term negative consequences will only come back to bite you in the ass...hard.

But even though their admissions practices might not exactly be ethical, I don't think that diminishes the quality of the education in any way.

I respectfully disagree. Higher acceptance rates translate into the very likely scenario of larger class sizes, and consequently, higher student/teacher ratio, overcrowding, lack of professor availability, and a strain on school resources and facilities. If the admissions policy of Art Center is geared towards maximum acceptance and just allowing unqualified students to drop out or meander on while paying money under the belief that they are gaining and maximizing the necessary skills to survive in the real world, that operating philosophy is deceptive recruiting at best and fraud at worst.

Art Center has always been a school for older or more experienced students, many of which who have had prior training or even experience in the field. It established its reputation as being almost a sort of trade school after all. As a result, most of its programs are tailored for those who already have some sort of foundational background.

IF Art Center, at its core, is truly geared towards semi and full-time professional artists, the powers-that-be should state and pursue that mission clearly and not promote itself as a full-time, federally accredited college when in reality the institution functions as a full-time, advanced, specialized trade school. If admissions personnel tell me that I'm not ready for the full-time undergrad program and that I need to pay more artistic dues at a lower level before entering full time by taking community college or ACAN classes, I would be totally fine with that assessment. Obviously, that's not what takes place since the business side of the school now takes precedence.

Although Art Center is definitely at fault here for letting people in who weren't ready, ultimately, the responsibility lies with the student. If you're truly motivated and passionate about your work, you'll find a way to learn what you need to learn.

How is it an applicant's responsibility when Art Center admissions accepts him or her knowing full well that the person lacks the foundational skills necessary for successful artistic development and advancement? I absolutely agree that if you aspire to be a true professional your passion will drive you to find a way regardless of most circumstances; however, there is a HUGE difference between rapid refinement and progression of moderate to well-honed artistic skills (what Art Center apparently specializes in) versus development and advancement of demonstrated artistic potential.

I think a lot of people have the idea that Art Center will somehow magically turn you into a great artist, without any effort on the student's part to figure out exactly what he or she needs to learn...I guess when you're spending that much money, you kind of expect magic to happen. Of course it doesn't, and the guys that keep spending that money wishing that it will are ultimately jobless when they graduate. To me that kind of attitude is a bit childish. These people feel a sense of entitlement and superiority and when the results aren't up to par, they blame the school. It's a natural reaction to have I guess but it won't really change anything unless they're willing to adopt a different mindset.

I'll agree partially. The trust-fund babies and super egoists entering Art Center, or wherever they end up at, will always offset whatever personal deficiencies they possess as attributable to external causes. I don't agree that they comprise "a lot of people". The vast majority of people who don't reside at the high end of the tax bracket and have lived unsheltered lives realize an inescapable truth: what a person contributes towards any endeavor is what he or she ultimately receives from it. The law of equivalent exchange holds tried and true over the ages.
I do not and cannot expect any school to do the necessary work for me - what I do expect from a school as costly and highly-regarded as Art Center is for them to adhere to a minimum standard of honesty about the required prerequisite skills needed to take full advantage of and succeed in their programs.

JoshK

December 2nd, 2008, 08:33 PM

I apologize if I misread JoshK's response as 'Foundation may be lacking, but you can always acquire those skills easily elsewhere' instead of 'Art Center will give you a good foundation, but if you want to be better, the opportunities are there.' If the latter statement is what he meant, the misinterpretation is my own.

I think if they had added 1 or 2 more foundation classes it would help more but in my opinon the program (Illustration although I switch to ent. design) my friends and I went through was good but not great, foundation wise. (we would hit up art center workshops 3-5 days a week the first 3 semesters and go landscape painting on the weekends on top of homework though (it was fun!)) Also classes like comp and drawing and sketching for illustration do require you to go to the workshops (if you took david luce's class, i don't know if he still teaches that class, bob kato is even a better teacher). Also most of the drawing workshops and classes consists of 2-20 minute poses, mostly 5 mins and you will be suprised at how much in 5 minutes you can accomplish and learn from. There might be 1-2 hour pose sometimes. We actually don't do 8 week poses at art center or cast drawings that take 1 week to finish. Although I think it is really helpful to do long poses and maybe they can include a class that do that. The only class that has a really long pose that I took was drawing for illustration, where we drew straight with pen and ink for 3 hours (BTW great class if you are in illustration/going editorial).

Also there is a lot of questions about the skills of recent graduates and the way the program is ran. I can't speak for the illustration program (I was in it for one term doing editorial stuff though) but I have friends and classmates in the ent design(and arts) program that are amazing and I know will be rocking in the next couple years. Obviously everyone in the class won't be amazing but I would say there are 3-5 really good people and 2-3 superstars per term (estimate) and thats not taking into consideration of the ent. art track which is gears towards animation. Some of my friends and classmates are already working or have gotten offers with film/game/animation studios and are thinking about leaving early and they never had any prior art eduction except state or community college. I think the entering entertainment design majors are really strong and as long as they don't slack off they will be great artists (don't slack justin!). Also some of work you see on blogs and stuff are rushed (or from lack of sleep) because we got 5-6 classes that we have to deal with, not to mention some students freelance on top of that. I know someone in my class that is 7th term and taking 6 studio classes....thats ridiculous, its like having 6 jobs at once. Another thing is don't just look at the grad shows to see how good the students are, a lot of students leave early without a degree or they come back from a job like a year or 2 later to finish.

I'm not trying to persuade anyone to come to art center because there are a lot of great options now (LAAFA, , CDA), but I just felt like I need to speak my mind because I see a lot of questioning and negative comments about art center. There are bad points but I think it is like that with any other art schools. Also I think Scott knows what he is doing with the Ent. track and the students in that track will have a strong foundation with all the viscom classes and perspective classes (maybe not so much figurative but you can supplement that).

BTW, if I had to choose between , CDA, or LAAFA, I would go to CDA. Also just because an artist is amazing doesn't mean he or she is a good teacher. Although I've taken classes with Carlo and Kevin and they really are good teachers that know how to help a student no matter what their skill level is.

Also epias good points, I just said concept art because I figure it is what most people are into on this forum but CDA is great for anything related to the entertainment field too and i'm thinking of taking more classes there when i'm on break. Also what you are talking about the design stuff makes sense, I took classes with carlo and kevin before and thats basically what they talk about. I definitely think more teachers should stress that but there are some at art center that do (later terms, early terms is more about fundamentals). (Christian Schellwad sp?, Kevin/hong...etc, sorry i still haven't taken neville and the others but i'm sure neville does from what i hear).

I think i'll stop posting, this argument can go on forever =)

burning_chrome

December 2nd, 2008, 10:25 PM

Also there is a lot of questions about the skills of recent graduates and the way the program is ran. I can't speak for the illustration program (I was in it for one term doing editorial stuff though) but I have friends and classmates in the ent design(and arts) program that are amazing and I know will be rocking in the next couple years...Some of my friends and classmates are already working or have gotten offers with film/game/animation studios and are thinking about leaving early and they never had any prior art eduction except state or community college...Another thing is don't just look at the grad shows to see how good the students are, a lot of students leave early without a degree or they come back from a job like a year or 2 later to finish....I'm not trying to persuade anyone to come to art center because there are a lot of great options now (LAAFA, , CDA), but I just felt like I need to speak my mind because I see a lot of questioning and negative comments about art center. There are bad points but I think it is like that with any other art schools. Also I think Scott knows what he is doing with the Ent. track and the students in that track will have a strong foundation with all the viscom classes and perspective classes (maybe not so much figurative but you can supplement that).

Thanks for weighing in with your input Josh - the reviews and opinions of past and current Art Center students obviously carry a lot of weight since you guys have been there and done it (maybe not all of it, but you were/are there).

May I ask what's the process for switching from one major to another like you did? Do you have to petition the department head to see if there are openings or just declare an official change and sign up for new classes?

My apologies if any of my comments came across as being negatively directed at Art Center students themselves - I do have issues with how admissions vets and accepts applicants, yes, but that's a criticism focused on an institutional operating policy that seemingly shies away from candidness. If anything, I applied with great enthusiasm after reading about how rigorously students are tested, challenged, and made all the better because of the cumulative artistic crucible they underwent. One familiar phrase that I've come across on various websites talking about Art Center is 'If you survive, there's nothing you can't do'; people may question certain things about an Art Center graduate, but work ethic certainly won't be one. The fact that you personally know students being offered jobs from major companies while they are still in school lends credence to that statement.

The Entertainment Design track under Scott sounds fantastic and if I ever win the lotto or hit oil here in Texas, I would still beeline myself for Pasadena and probably follow the same path as you did at Art Center :)

JoshK

December 3rd, 2008, 12:33 AM

np chrome, I think this thread is more helpful for answering questions than arguing about which school is better, or which method is better. I mean in the end it is up to the person to choose where he/she wants to go. No one can make that choice for them.

since i switch from illustration/editorial to ent design i had to show scott (department chair) my portfolio. Then after he ok it you fill out a sheet (change of major/track) with scott's signature and turn it into enrollment office. It was pretty painless.

I remember at first he was hesitate to let me in because my portfolio consisted of figure paintings and drawings and speedpaintings of a bunch of mountains and rocks with cool lighting and stuff like that which had no design but as an art piece it looked ok (BTW mountains and rocks can have cool formations, its just mine was plain old mountains and rocks). So he told me he will let me take ent. classes and to check in with him at the end of the term again to see how i was doing in the class. So I did more stuff that has more designing and he ok'd it.

f1sh

December 3rd, 2008, 03:13 AM

IF Art Center, at its core, is truly geared towards semi and full-time professional artists, the powers-that-be should state and pursue that mission clearly and not promote itself as a full-time, federally accredited college when in reality the institution functions as a full-time, advanced, specialized trade school

I wouldn't go as far as to say that it only caters to semi and full-time professional artists, but likewise you can't just lump it in with any regular, accredited institution. It's true that it has many of the characteristics of a trade school but that doesn't change the fact that it is a full-time, federally accredited college. Maybe it's this very ambiguity that's causing problems for people but it's also what makes Art Center unique in some sense.

How is it an applicant's responsibility when Art Center admissions accepts him or her knowing full well that the person lacks the foundational skills necessary for successful artistic development and advancement? .

Of course it's the applicant's responsibility. No one is forcing him or her to attend the school even if he's accepted. I agree that admissions really shouldn't accept people who aren't prepared for the rigor of the program, but come on, can you really blame Art Center for accepting an applicant if he's unable to make use of what they have to offer? After all, the applicant is the one who's doing the applying. Relying completely on the opinion of some admissions rep to judge whether or not you should drop 200k is obviously not the wisest decision.

I don't want to try and defend Art Center's admissions policies or whatever because I do feel there are a lot of people here that were accepted prematurely and perhaps had misconceptions about the school itself. For whatever reason, Art Center has begun accepting a lot of younger students into their degree programs; the average age of incoming freshmen went down from like 24 in 2006 to 22 in 2008. That's a pretty huge difference. But even though admissions standards have been lowered, the overall class size has still stayed the same. The number of students at Art Center is still just under 1500 students as its always been and all of the great teachers like Kevin Chen, Hong Ly, Gary Meyer, Bob Kato, Nick Pugh, Neville Page, Christian Lorenz Scheurer, Scott, etc. (the list goes onnn.....) are all still there. The workload is still insane and the school is still as busy as ever. As I said before, the quality of education at Art Center has pretty much stayed consistent. Whatever is going on in the admissions or finance department has little if any impact on the education itself.

NoSeRider

December 3rd, 2008, 07:16 AM

http://www.shrunkenheadman.com/illustration/gallery.php?g=69

I'm look'n at the alumni from San Jose State University, and I'm wondering what you guys are doing that they are not?

I'm trying to get people to justify the high tuition, and what is being taught.

If I'm going to be in debt for the rest of my life, I better ask some hard ass questions.

burning_chrome

December 3rd, 2008, 09:16 PM

np chrome, I think this thread is more helpful for answering questions than arguing about which school is better, or which method is better. I mean in the end it is up to the person to choose where he/she wants to go. No one can make that choice for them.

I'm with you 100% on this comment Josh - and in order to make the most effective, long term decision both financially and personally, the need to critically analyze all sides of any issue and the available options must occur. It's not my intent to negatively criticize the entire school, I just find serious fault with the current guiding principle of the admissions dept. focusing on admitting students based more on increasing cash flow rather than investing in proven and demonstrated artistic abilities. And this may be the case across the board at all the major American art schools, I really don’t know.

Thanks for providing the procedural details relating to switching tracks at Art Center, the inside live info is always appreciated.

burning_chrome

December 3rd, 2008, 09:37 PM

It's true that it has many of the characteristics of a trade school but that doesn't change the fact that it is a full-time, federally accredited college.

Yes, Art Center is indeed federally accredited, and one of the functions of federal accreditation includes "...stimulating a general raising of standards among educational institutions" (Source:U.S. Dept of Education (http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/accreditation_pg2.html))

Of course it's the applicant's responsibility. No one is forcing him or her to attend the school even if he's accepted. I agree that admissions really shouldn't accept people who aren't prepared for the rigor of the program, but come on, can you really blame Art Center for accepting an applicant if he's unable to make use of what they have to offer? After all, the applicant is the one who's doing the applying. Relying completely on the opinion of some admissions rep to judge whether or not you should drop 200k is obviously not the wisest decision.

Obviously any and all final decisions rest with the applicant. The way I read your response is that more often than not, the people who fail out or don't succeed at Art Center is a direct result of ego and lack of motivation to commit the time and effort required of him or her to succeed - my argument is that under the current lax admissions acceptance policy, there will be plenty of hard-working, committed people who enter the school under the mistaken impression that they possess the basic, required skills needed to engage the curriculum full-throttle when what really happens is that they flounder and washout because Art Center admissions failed to disclose their shortcomings during the review process and reject or refer them to more suitable alternatives.

Now, will there be those under-qualified or borderline Art Center neophytes who work their asses off, overcome all obstacles, and attain artistic proficiency? Yes, I absolutely believe that outcome is possible, but would that result really be the norm across every program or merely the occasional act of randomness? Really, I'm asking you, Justin, Josh and all the rest who actually attend (or have attended) the school 'cause obviously you guys would know best about the situation. If the Art Center teaching philosophy is "Sheer will overcomes any deficiencies of Skill" and that pedagogical approach does indeed work for entering, under-qualified students willing to take the hits, put in the overtime, and keep moving forward despite all adversity, let those of us on the outside know.

By no means am I saying that Art Center admissions is an awful entity wholly responsible for student success or failure once they've entered, but they do bear at least some of the responsibility for allowing under-qualified or borderline prospective students into the program for the sake of fiscal solvency.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense and access to information resources would not and should not base their decision to attend based solely on the responses of an admissions counselor; however, Art Center administrators are ultimately the gatekeepers acting as quality control concerning who they allow into the school. This is Art Center College of Design, not some fly-by-night, we advertise on MTV at 1AM and you can take online drawing classes art institute established circa 1996 - Art Center programs stand among the best in the country and school is known internationally for good reasons - and as such, I DO hold representatives of the institution to a higher standard of decent judgment and full disclosure regarding an applicant's demonstrated technical competency rather than gauging acceptance or rejection based on how far behind they are in raising funds for new buildings.

As I said before, the quality of education at Art Center has pretty much stayed consistent. Whatever is going on in the admissions or finance department has little if any impact on the education itself.

The education quality may have remained the same during your time and for your experiences at Art Center, but there are plenty of folks who don't hold the same opinion about the current and future state of the school:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/arts/la-et-artcenter11-2008jun11,0,7266639.story
http://la.curbed.com/archives/2008/06/gehry_to_blame.php
http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/arts-news/richard-koshalek-out-at-art-ce/
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/educationfirst

To quote JoshK, "I think i'll stop posting, this argument can go on forever" but just to clarify for the here and now and for whoever comes in to read later on:

Do I feel that Art Center is a bad school?

Absolutely not

Do I feel that Art Center is overpriced?

That all depends on one's bank account or percentage of winning lotto tickets.

Would I still recommend Art Center to people seeking an arts school out West?

Absolutely

Do I have serious gripes with the current operating policy of admissions focusing on money rather than qualifications?

Yes

Do I feel that the academic rigor and excellence of Art Center has faltered in recent times?

Not from the gallery of student works that I've seen, but I obviously don't attend the school so that small glimpse into the internal workings of the place is just selective sampling.

m-lin

December 22nd, 2008, 09:41 AM

W-well this is my first time posting, sorry if it's in the wrong section or anything D:
Anyway, I really want to get into Art Center. It's like my dream. I'm in an international school in Hong Kong ATM, doing IB -- which I hate. So a week or so ago I sort of broke down and applied for the foundation course in UNSW Australia (Design stream) and I just got a letter of acceptance from them. But the thing is, I also emailed one of the admissions people from ACCD a few days ago about whether or not it's possible to transfer over after I finish the course, and they said that the level of work I do there might not match up to what they're expecting. Basically I'm terrified that if I do go to UNSW, it'll lower my chances of getting in later. The truth is that I only applied for UNSW because I hate IB so much; I don't actually want to get into the Design course in UNSW in the future, I only picked that stream because it was the closest thing they had to Illustration, which is what I'm interested in. So I'm thinking -- was that a stupid move? Should I just stfu and finish IB? I know that what really matters is my portfolio, and I'm afraid that once I get to Australia I won't have enough time to work on it (not that I have time to do that now either).
Moreover, I'm afraid that my portfolio won't be good enough when I apply, and I'd be stuck with Design in UNSW. So I'd also like to ask, is it possible to apply more than once?
Thanks a bunch >< I know I'm noob at all this.

evildisco

December 22nd, 2008, 03:45 PM

Can you show us some work?

Also I don't think the school you go to will impact your future so much that you can say you're screwed. It facilitates for sure, but it doesn't make you the artist you want to be, you do that.

Are you asking if it's possible to use the same portfolio to apply to a different school, even though you got accepted at UNSW?

pipermints

December 23rd, 2008, 05:19 PM

Is there anybody with an apt nearby looking for a roommate?

thevagabondartist

December 23rd, 2008, 10:52 PM

Sheff

December 26th, 2008, 05:30 PM

I used to have my Art Center rejection letter and my acceptance letter mounted side by side. The difference between the form letters was less than 3 months.

I suspect that I was rejected because I sent a tube of life drawings the first time. I couldn't send what was current because I still needed to be graded on it before I transferred.

The reason I sent the tube was because shipping a full size portfolio overseas was too expensive. I came back to the states and dropped it off in person. I got a call the next day I got in.

s_messing

December 30th, 2008, 03:21 PM

Noserider- there are a ton of very talented students who have left art center do to the inflated tuition. There is an increasing disproportional relationship between income level and cost of tuition over the years -and this is true for most accredited schools nowadays.

The generation of designers that have been working in the industry for more than 15 years did not come out of school with 100k+ debt.

This is a serious consideration as you will likely be paying this debt off for a significant part of your career. Many people end up leaving art center around their 5th term. They push off their GEs and try to get through their studio credits ASAP.

I chose not to finish art center due to the incurring debt. If I were doing it all over again today, I would spend two years at an academy like LAAFA or CDA. Many of these teachers are stronger than the foundation teachers at art center, IMO.

The market is so saturated with DVDs, workshops, lectures, etc… that you could probably get a solid education without even going to Art Center these days. This requires a bit of self motivation but it is a hell of a lot cheaper.

NoSeRider

December 31st, 2008, 09:21 AM

Noserider- there are a ton of very talented students who have left art center do to the inflated tuition. There is an increasing disproportional relationship between income level and cost of tuition over the years -and this is true for most accredited schools nowadays.

Whoa, WHOA, WHOA, WHOA!!

I don't know who burning_chrome is, and I'm not him, but I am following this conversation.

There's no cornered market on deductive reasoning.

Art Schools have a habit of brain washing its students into its agenda. LAAFA is no different from ACCD in that philosophy, brainwashing.

However, some brainwashing is better then others.

However I did make a post here:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24843&page=48

And hopefully that is the post you are referring to? I just feel my name got interjected out of context.

Sheff

January 5th, 2009, 06:00 PM

It really doesn't matter where you go. As long as you know what you want, what you really want, you can get there.

That being said, after having gone through ACCD, and now teaching, I can see huge differences in the way those schools function. I can also see several ways to gain similar educational experience for much less money.

Also, s_messing is right that you can educate yourself a great deal with DVD's, self-motivation, an occasional workshop and maybe a few mentors.

I remember meeting a 17 year old kid at a workshop who was head and shoulders better than any student I have ever had. He did environments, but his figure skills needed work. But that's understandable since where is a kid under 18 going to get life drawing mileage? Besides, you don't need ACCD to get access to instructors of that caliber. You can find workshops with a few of the people you want to study with.

In any case, he painted competently enough that all he would need would be a little figure drawing enough to 'get it.'

That to me is an example of how having a strategy for your education pays off. I doesn't necessarily mean you have to put yourself in mega debt.

However, when I went, I really enjoyed my time there.

xHUNTERx

January 8th, 2009, 02:42 PM

I agree with many comments made here about whether or not art center is worth the money.

However, I do believe that the bottom line of this matter depends on whether or not you're motivated enough as a individual. A person that wants it really bad will always find a way to get the information/ education he wants. The rest will have to pay the premium for someone else to push them and tell them what to do(i.e. Art Center). It is really up to you to decide whether or not you have what it takes to achieve that.

evildisco

January 9th, 2009, 12:23 AM

xHUNTERx

January 9th, 2009, 01:52 AM

evil: i think you're mis interpreting my words. I beg to differ but many of the students currently studying at art center have this particular mindset. They seem to believe that they will somehow transform into a awesome artist by walking through this "Art Center machine". Of course, this is certainly not true and one should never expect the school to just walk them every step of the way.

I'm saying this because I'm seeing this trend becoming more and more apparent from the past 4 years at art center. I find that this is more true to students coming in straight from high school (which art center has been taking in at a increasing rate in hte past couple years.) Though not all, many of them have yet to fully realize what it really takes to get the fullest out of Art Center. A lot of the students I've met are never doing anything more than what their instructions tell them to do and many of them aren't even sure what they really want yet.

I'm not discouraging students from going to art center, it is one of the best places to get an art education in the states. It's also one of the only schools that is packed with such talent and dedication in both students and instructors. I just want to let others know that like evildisco said, one should be self-motivated and mature enough before going into the school. Otherwise you'd be wasting the tuition and end up with a huge debt for years.

evildisco

January 9th, 2009, 02:04 AM

I think we're both driving the same point, because I agree with you, a lot of people at our school expect a lot of things just because they pay tuition.

I did misunderstand a little.

NoSeRider

January 9th, 2009, 11:59 AM

http://www.laafa.org/sessions/faculty.php

If you look through that list of instructors, you realize that a lot of them have taught or are teaching at ACCD.

So, how are the 'connections' greater at ACCD?

However, I do agree that many of the best entertainment designers coming from ACCD have been ID graduates. So, maybe the real challenge is to find alternative Industrial Design programs if the high cost of tuition is too overwhelming?

I believe burning_chrome is asking some smart questions, and in hard economics times I think you have to do that.

fredcheng1987

February 3rd, 2009, 04:59 AM

No, got it all wrong at Art Center you don't pay to be pushed or told what to do. That's the recipe for a shit education right there.
You should be already self-motivated and ready at Art Center and any other institution you might want to attend.
Teachers guide you but in the end, you need to put the rest into it.

a lot of pp who chose to go to artcenter is somehow self-motivated already.. but definitely not to that extreme level if the price isnt so high
I'm not saying it's a good thing that we have to pay such high tuition, but in certain level, it is kinda true that you are pushed because you pay so much or you have a big debt cause of the tuition...

steve kim

February 7th, 2009, 10:29 PM

http://www.laafa.org/sessions/faculty.php

If you look through that list of instructors, you realize that a lot of them have taught or are teaching at ACCD.

So, how are the 'connections' greater at ACCD?

Taking a few classes of more or less the same (academic) training vs 8 terms of artcenter and seeing your friends grow and change as they develop over time in reponse to varying stimuli... it's a little different, and interesting, and in its own way very gratifying. at AC i really wasn't very social with my peers yet when i see them succeeding today... having shows and galleries and cool jobs I am very happy for them and happy for my experience there.

Not to say a similar thing doesn't happen at ateliers. just something to think about.

i think it's a very valid line of reasoning to question whether or not schools like AC are worth it compared to ateliers... especially when you directly compare criteria like foundation studies or something. but like life, relationships, people, many things cannot be quantified so clearly.

the other thing about school, or education really, is that often you go to school not for what you want to learn but for what don't know you want to learn. just cause you have certain desires now doesn't mean you understand them fully, and when/if the time comes that find yourself wanting 'more' it would be unfortunate to be constrained by the limits of an atelier imo.

but some ppl know EXACTLY (even if i have my doubts!) what they want... and well that's cool :)

steve kim

February 7th, 2009, 10:47 PM

I don't see entertainment as a closed track like you and stevekim, I see it as the starting point. The industrial design foundation that it gives us is the exact same as the illustration foundations you gain by drawing and painting from life. I don't think the school or major is capable of 'pidgeonholing' a person, I think that comes down to the person's personality and whether they choose to have an open mind or not.

That is very true, it comes down to the person and not the institution, but some teachers and chairs could encourage more "crosspollination" for lack of better word.

Okay here is where I think I should clarify. Even if a school is incapable of pidgeonholing a person, the fact is that PEOPLE are more than willing to pidgenhole themselves... to think that they have all their answers, to think they understand all their own needs and desires. This is where an outside influence, whether it's a parent or teacher or school or instituation can help out the individual, so that that individual might truly grow into his potential.

personally the fact is if artcenter didn't FORCE me to take a certain TDS fine art class I don't know where i'd be right now. I thought i was plenty 'open-minded' and all that but sometimes you simply don't know yourself as well as you think you do. And one shouldn't be penalized for that simply due to being in the wrong environment.

Justin.

February 8th, 2009, 03:12 PM

well. I gotta say most of us would rather not go through the rigorous IDF curriculum, but we grin and bare it because I'm pretty sure all of us in 2nd term trust that scott knows what he's doing.

Also, alot of people in my term who have the time are already sitting in or taking illu classes. In 3rd term when I have a much better handle on the material, I'm going to probably do the same.

I hear what you're saying, and agree that we aren't always as open as we think, but I also think anyone has any given number of potentials. By working to fulfill it, you will automatically learn what you need to fix. If I would have never gotten an internship, I wouldn't even know what industrial design was, nor the entertainment program at art center, nor most of the knowledge I've gained in the past year and a half. I worked really hard, and it kept opening me up to new opportunities every step. Maybe it doesnt work so well for everyone, but it's worked out really well for me so far!

pipermints

February 13th, 2009, 03:28 AM

So I keep hearing that there's a certain Art Center look or that the artwork that comes out of the school looks the same. Do you guys think this is true? And what look is this?

Pseudocognition

February 14th, 2009, 12:58 PM

*spontaneously appears*

Application and portfolio sent for ENT, and now for the wait. Wheeeee.

Justin.

February 15th, 2009, 04:49 AM

So I keep hearing that there's a certain Art Center look or that the artwork that comes out of the school looks the same. Do you guys think this is true? And what look is this?

Alot of people think that industrial design drawing techniques are one person's 'style', when it's not... It's a process. We are industrial designers trained in illustration. Our degree is a Bachelors of Science in Industrial design, not Fine Arts. (BS vs. BFA). There are specific research and ideation philosophies and techniques to help build effective and functional products with good styling. It's like saying 'everyone does underpaintings the same way' or 'everyone's life drawings are the same style', just people seem less informed about Industrial design...

You tell me; these are a mix of current students and alums (within the past 4 years). Do they look the same?

http://baklazhan.blogspot.com/
http://benmauro.blogspot.com/
http://www.edmundliang.com/
http://jparked.blogspot.com/
http://markcastanon.blogspot.com/
http://labluna.blogspot.com/
http://www.khangle.net/gallery/

Brashen

February 15th, 2009, 08:39 AM

Sending mine in a week or so......Heres I quick idea of where I'm heading with my portfolio....

kryoth

February 16th, 2009, 08:42 AM

Awesome stuff, Brashen, good luck!

I just sent in my portfolio a few days ago after working on it for about 5 months or so. My sketchbook has some of the works... Whew, now just gotta wait and hope!

evildisco

February 16th, 2009, 07:02 PM

Alot of people think that industrial design drawing techniques are one person's 'style', when it's not... It's a process. We are industrial designers trained in illustration. Our degree is a Bachelors of Science in Industrial design, not Fine Arts. (BS vs. BFA). There are specific research and ideation philosophies and techniques to help build effective and functional products with good styling. It's like saying 'everyone does underpaintings the same way' or 'everyone's life drawings are the same style', just people seem less informed about Industrial design...

It's not a question of wether your degree is a BS or a BA. There's always in all departments an Art Center aesthetic whether you like it or not.
As one that has a weird relationship with transportation design there are tendencies that I see that could easily be interpreted as style.
In illustration there are prominent stylistic approaches too and a bunch of people adhere to those currents, see the whole naive drawing deal or the "making 3d things" trend.

The people you are showing are the exceptional cases, not the norm(though I have to say that even though some of those people are my friends and I respect tremendously. the work tends to be blurry in my eyes in terms of who is who). Most people in the Entertainment track adhere to the program's aesthetics. I mean the proof is in some of those books Robertson publishes through his company. A lot of times there is hardly any distinction between artists visually because the underpinnings are the same but also because of the very rigid framework that some people fall victim to.

Finally, I'm not saying that any track or major is exempt from this, I mean every major has its "bubble car" and if you understand that last bit you understand my point.

Justin.

February 18th, 2009, 12:31 AM

trufax.

a la bapsi

February 27th, 2009, 05:25 PM

Everything dropped off for Illu.
Wish me luck, I'll need it.

evildisco

February 27th, 2009, 06:33 PM

good luck

eric_g77

February 28th, 2009, 09:18 PM

Everything dropped off for Illu.
Wish me luck, I'll need it.

good luck, im turnin in everything on monday. thank god they gave us that extra day. i still havnt finished writing the freaken essays yet. >.<

i would like to see ur portfolio, did u upload it online by any chance? i like to see what im going up against. =D

a la bapsi

March 1st, 2009, 12:24 AM

._.

i didn't know they gave us the extra day.

and. trust me. i'm nothing to worry about.

catb

March 3rd, 2009, 08:05 PM

a la bapsi

March 3rd, 2009, 10:43 PM

for enrollment? yes.
for scholarship, probably not.

man my portfolio's so unbelievably pitiful haha
i'd give art center a horrible name

eric_g77

March 4th, 2009, 02:14 AM

well, they actually told me that they extended the deadline to march the 2nd since the 1st was a sunday. i turned it in yesterday. anyways, i really really really really hope i get in. i really dont want to stick around at pcc for another semester. =(. letters should be coming in around 2-3 weeks from now. i hope to hear all good news from you guys!!!

eric_g77

March 4th, 2009, 02:22 AM

i'd like to see ALL your portfolios HAR HAR >_>

I'm like practically out of the running since i'm late. Mine arrived today under express mail so it's like 2 days past the scholarship deadline D: Do you think they'll still look at it?

btw catb, i checked out sum of ur stuff that u posted on the current portfolio thread. awesome stuff, i really liked ur hand pieces.
i dont think you'll have a problem getting accepted. i go to school at pasadena city college (which is only about 15 mins away from art center) and i've seen alot of accepted portfolio's from fellow classmates. trust me, they are no where near as good as your shit. anyways, good luck! u should call them n ask about the whoel scholarship thing!

catb

March 4th, 2009, 02:42 AM

btw catb, i checked out sum of ur stuff that u posted on the current portfolio thread. awesome stuff, i really liked ur hand pieces.
i dont think you'll have a problem getting accepted. i go to school at pasadena city college (which is only about 15 mins away from art center) and i've seen alot of accepted portfolio's from fellow classmates. trust me, they are no where near as good as your shit. anyways, good luck! u should call them n ask about the whoel scholarship thing!

Thanks but I applied for entertainment so I didn't send .. that stuff in D:
I was going to apply for illustration instead but the majority of my work was already sent down to calarts for character animation.

I don't think my ent. design is as strong... I'm too scared to post it up cause what if it really sucks... no one at my school is applying to this major so I can't trust their word when they say they think i'll get in.

eric_g77

March 4th, 2009, 03:39 AM

Thanks but I applied for entertainment so I didn't send .. that stuff in D:
I was going to apply for illustration instead but the majority of my work was already sent down to calarts for character animation.

I don't think my ent. design is as strong... I'm too scared to post it up cause what if it really sucks... no one at my school is applying to this major so I can't trust their word when they say they think i'll get in.

man, i actually really wanted to do entertainment design too. but i found out about it wayyyyy too late and i just started digital painting. doesnt help that they only accept once a year either. >.<

catb

March 4th, 2009, 01:52 PM

DUDE YEA. I spent like just a week on mine and then i like destroyed it and made a new one in one day. Hah I wish I could tell them but I don't think they'd find it impressive that I turned it in late by one day because I spent one day making a portfolio =_=

eric_g77

March 4th, 2009, 03:31 PM

character animation sounds interesting. i dont live too far from calarts but i've never really consider it as a school of choice tho. anyways, good luck!

catb

March 4th, 2009, 09:10 PM

a la bapsi: YOUR STUFF DOES NOT SUCK D: I saw some of your stuff on ur sketchbook on like saturday when i was on my binge of OMG I MISSED THE POST OFFICE ITS GONNA BE LATE. I felt so bad about what I had after looking at yours that I redid the entire thing on sunday :D

Brashen

March 7th, 2009, 03:47 AM

Sent mine in a couple of days back......I hate the wait.

eric_g77

March 8th, 2009, 03:51 PM

a la bapsi

March 8th, 2009, 03:56 PM

lmao me too

turns out that in the rush, i forgot to send in a transcript. got that baby taken care of.
god. x___x

pipermints

March 8th, 2009, 10:53 PM

i got an letter in a white envelope yesterday from art center. i was shitting balls the moment i saw it because a friend of me said that they send out rejection letters in white envelope. turns out it was just a letter informing me that my application was completed. just a heads-up incase u guys get the same thing. =P

hahaha that's pretty funny but i'd probably do the same thing. hope it will turn out well. good luck you guys :)

what majors are you guys getting into?

a la bapsi

March 9th, 2009, 03:48 AM

illu, with that ent arts focus.

Mock

March 9th, 2009, 04:17 AM

Bapsi will you hurry up and get accepted already so I can stop anticipating?

eric_g77

March 9th, 2009, 12:55 PM

im also doing illustration

pipermints, did u get accepted into art center already?

pipermints

March 10th, 2009, 12:12 AM

eric_g77

March 10th, 2009, 01:27 AM

yep. i'm going through my first term (technically my 2nd) for illustration but planning on doing entertainment arts. if you guys have questions feel free to ask, even though i havent been here that long haha.

awesome! im really curious about the workload, like how many hours of homework per week should i be expecting. and do you by any chance have ur accepted portfolio posted online? OH, AND scholarship! lol thanks!

a la bapsi

March 10th, 2009, 05:37 PM

PIPERMINTS.

HOW IS MODERNISM/WRITING STUDIO. [whatever you're taking/already took]
who do you have/recommend for 1st term illustration? any supplies i should start hoarding from now?
and eric's questions too. *__*

man i hate feeling like i'm counting chickens before they hatch LOL.

pipermints

March 10th, 2009, 08:54 PM

hummm. hours of homework per week really depends. on who you have, what classes, how fast you work, how good you want your work to be. some weeks i'll have a ton and some a little less so it's hard to say. maybe around 5-8 a week for heads and hands. 10-15 for design 2? not sure about the other ones. i'm not really good at estimating haha.

i've been meaning to get my portfolio online but i don't sorry. :/ i got 2.5k for a term and same for summer. not taking modernism but writing studio which i think is kind of lame. errr i probably regard it as my least important class but that's just me. not fond of essay writing and presentations. i like david luce for heads and hands a lot! he pushes you and he's pretty funny. feel like im improving a lot in that class. i heard lorrie madden is a pretty good teacher too. and from what i've seen student work from jeff smith's class for that weren't as good.. i'm kind of taking half 1st term half 2nd term classes so if you get design 2 jon nguyen is good. kind of brutal but honest. veeerry high expectations. graphic designers seem to love him but if you're not really that stuff as much then maybe don't take him. shaefer for painting is good but not quite as demanding as the other two. dana duncan for digital design is decent. just uh. save money for pleennty supplies..

pipermints

March 11th, 2009, 04:52 AM

eric_g77

March 11th, 2009, 05:13 AM

actually yeah now that i think about it i think jon's class is love/hate for me. it can be pretty frustrating and takes up the most time out of my classes. maybe take a less demanding teacher if your priority is in other classes that apply more directly to illustration. i did learn a lot about layouts/type and bookmaking though.

yeah everything was a little overwhelming for me when i first came.. very different from usc which is where i went for 1.5 years. are you guys straight out of highschool? when do you guys find out if you get in or not? summer?

ummm......im currently goin to pcc right now. its my 2nd year there and i cant WAIT to get out. they sent me a letter couple of days ago informing me that i will get my results in the next 2 weeks. so perhaps sometime this week or next week latest. i really really really hope i get accepted. =(, but ill keep u peeps updated. were you able to transfer all ur liberal arts credit from usc to art center?

Brashen

March 11th, 2009, 05:52 AM

Good luck you guys........ahhhhhh

kryoth

March 11th, 2009, 08:34 AM

The wait is killing me! Looking at some of the portfolios/sketchbooks you guys have posted, I can't believe how good the competition is - I hope we all get in though haha.

I wish I discovered CA a few years earlier, there's so much I can improve on through the site.

eric_g77

March 11th, 2009, 12:24 PM

kryoth

March 11th, 2009, 02:05 PM

whats ur major kono?

Entertainment Design.

Will_S.

March 13th, 2009, 04:32 PM

Is there anyone on here that is currently a transfer student that could give some thoughts and opinions? I'm currently going to a state university for a studio arts program where I'm nearing the end of my third year. The area I would like to focus on is the entertainment design and unfortunately no masters programs have the stuff I'm looking for. Most master's degrees are in illustration which is fine, but from what I understand entertainment design is like illustration and id combined.

Little did I know before going here that the program is sub par and many people that graduate do not get jobs. I only have a handful of credits before graduation, but I'm wondering if transfering to Art Center would be the way to go since the there are liberal arts requirements.

How good is the Art Center at giving out scholarships? Since the tuition is quite a bit more expensive than the current school I go to that would be a big factor. If I were to put my portfolio up on my sketchbook, could someone give me some thoughts on that? Thanks.