View Full Version : forget HL2, unreal engine 3.
May 26th, 2004, 12:17 PM
yes thats right unreal engine 3 is mind bogglingly better than half-life2, graphics wise ofcourse, to think how they could even begin designing an engine this great...
just a few screenshots, anyway heres how they do it (breifly) take a look at the character model above, what they do is they make 1 high detailed model around 1million - 8million poligons!, then they make a lower version about 80 - 100,000, then the mesh processing tool compares them and stores the difference in a normal map texture, the engine then draws the low res asset with the normal map, giving the impression were seeing the high res model with great fps.
video download link, Fileplanet(ign)
unreal engine 3 video download! (http://www.fileplanet.com/files/140000/140731.shtml)
May 26th, 2004, 01:36 PM
saw it a while ago, looks pretty cool. Post this stuff in the games forum in th future.
May 26th, 2004, 02:41 PM
Yeah this should be moved to the gam/movie forum.
I think what you described is called 'displacement mapping', it's sort of like bumpmapping as I understood it. It's old, and used by most games today, I think Doom3 was the first or one of the first. FarCry used it too I think. Not sure about HL2 though, but probably.
May 26th, 2004, 03:06 PM
I'm no expret on the shading side of things, but my undrestanding of normal mapping is somewhat different than displacement.... more like a complex bump map as the profiles.. the edges of objects are still lo res.. if you look close you can see it.. displacement would actually deform the surface, and the edges would have detail as well..
I'm no expert..
May 26th, 2004, 04:01 PM
I'm still more interested in HL2. Half-life had some really cool gameplay.
May 26th, 2004, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Prometheus|ANJ
Yeah this should be moved to the gam/movie forum.
I think what you described is called 'displacement mapping', it's sort of like bumpmapping as I understood it. It's old, and used by most games today, I think Doom3 was the first or one of the first. FarCry used it too I think. Not sure about HL2 though, but probably. What you're thinking of is called Parallax mapping which is "fake" displacement mapping.
Displacement maping uses triangle subdivision to create more depth to a surface based on the height/normal map. In other words, it alters the surface of 3d geometry to give it more depth.
Farcry uses displacement mapping.
Parallax mapping on the other hand is the illusion of a displacement map without additional polygons. In a square surface it can create nearly the same effect as displacement mapping in only two triangles.
Unlike parallax mapping, bump mapping is light based. It renders light pixels based on a normal/height map giving simple depth to textures.
Parallax mapping distorts a texture based on the position of the camera.
Anyway, that aside, the effect that was described in the first post is simple normal mapping, Half-Life 2 has it, from what I gather though it's not used on static geometry (eg: buildings) but rather characters and other organics.
The gap between the two game engines might seem really big by checking the screenshots, but I assure you that the levels displayed in Unreal 3 have at least 3x as many polygons as the Half-Life 2 demos. Given that much room to work with I'm sure the guys at Valve could have put together something similiar. But then only 2% of their target customers would be able to run that game ;O
May 27th, 2004, 04:26 AM
Farcry's Polybump technology is normal mapping, not displacement mapping.
May 27th, 2004, 07:26 AM
Yea you're right. Unfortunately the entire crytek site is 404s atm which wasn't helping me confirm info :O
May 27th, 2004, 09:51 AM
Yeah I was floored when i saw the first unreal movies. I'd say from looking at it at least 3x as much detail as half life 2 or doom 3 but it also won't be out for a while so its next gen. This is what i've been waiting for games to look like for years.
May 29th, 2004, 04:29 AM
well it might be a modellers dream but for texturers....wow
May 30th, 2004, 08:22 PM
and after you buy the game, you need to buy a whole render farm just to play it. gee, i can hardly wait.
May 31st, 2004, 12:11 PM
what they do is they make 1 high detailed model around 1million - 8million poligons!, then they make a lower version about 80 - 100,000, then the mesh processing tool compares them and stores the difference in a normal map texture
I got the information straight off the unreal technology site, and this is what they say:
Renderable Mesh: We build renderable meshes with 3,000-12,000 triangles, based on the expectation of 5-20 visible characters in a game scene.
Detail Mesh: We build 1-8 million triangle detail meshes for typical characters. This is quite sufficient for generating 1-2 normal maps of resolution 2048x2048 per character.
Bones: Our characters typically have 100-200 bones, and include articulated faces, hands, and fingers.
from what I gather though it's not used on static geometry (eg: buildings) but rather characters and other organics.
I'm not sure if that may have been correct in earlier games, but from the screenshots I've seen of the Unreal 3 Engine, normal mapping is definitely used on static objects.
May 31st, 2004, 06:08 PM
I'm not sure if that may have been correct in earlier games, but from the screenshots I've seen of the Unreal 3 Engine, normal mapping is definitely used on static objects. [/B]I was referring to Half-Life 2. It has normalmappings for all character models.
June 1st, 2004, 10:28 PM
June 2nd, 2004, 03:07 AM
The texture artist didn't mess with a displacement map. Soft like Zbrush 2 can do an interpolation between an high res model(10 000 000 poly) and a low res poly(10 000 poly - a bit high but heh... If I do a 10 0000 000 poly model I don't want it to be completely destroyed :p) and give you the result as a displacement map useable in soft like Maya, XSI, Lightwave(any soft who support true displacement).
Displacement mapping create more polygon (triangle, not quad or ngon), so not really usefull in a game environment for now - but to animate an high res model, pretty usefull!
And well, how can we forget a game we haven't still play with in favour of an engine who's not on the market? ;)
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