WhAtS ThE PoInT? (Design and Fundamentals)

[Cocofuppa]

Lo folks, im not usually a moany git, but im a little pissed off. I see so many folk on CA that are like eager beavers to draw perfect figures with every muscle correctly drawn, and every friggin hair and bone spot on.

Well whats the friggin point in that? I just dont see it, even if u can draw perfect figures, whats the point if u dont design anything with it, surely it would be of no use, i mean it doesnt necciserily make a good artist JUST because u can paint pixel perfect fiugres?

Just an observation I made, anyone care to comment if u fink ur ARD enuff :D?

[N D Hill]

Why would you be mad because someone can and would want to do that?

And the answer to your question is quite simple. Observing things from life and then recreating them teaches you to portray things more realistically. Plain and simple. If you can't portray the ralationships between muscles, or how joints bend correctly or how skin actually has a little transparency making the shadows softer, than you're just imitating the way someone else may draw a figure. It's best to learn for yourself first hand.

Even the people who draw disproportionate comic figures will tell you that they've studied from life. Before they can destort a body they have to know what to distort. If they did simply what they saw someone else do because it looked cool, then their style would be all surface, no substance. This is especially important for artists whose goal is to create new things. How do they make clear representational art if they can't improvise what it might look like in front of them. It's the core knowledge that's valuable.

[NoUseFrAName]

what's the point of anything in this existential flicker of a reality anyways?
if it's meaningful to the person that's doin' it, all the power to 'em!

Imagination is kinda useless if you don't have the skills to put it into effect.....the means of getting those ideas out of our minds and into the real world. I'm an eager beaver when it comes to honing those skills.....especially because they fuel my creativity to a certain extent. The more detailed an meticulous I can be with real things, the more meticulous and detailed I can be with imagined things, because my knowledge gives me more details for my imagination to consider.

-Rob

[JoshuaTheJames]

Drawing is always a key factor. And an artist should always be bettering himself in terms of the figure and his fundamental studies. But all that should be a given. You should always be working to get better in those terms. Also we should always be designing no matter what we are doing with our art. Some people give one aspect more importance than others, also perhaps neglect other aspects that my not come as easily. Always push you fundamental knowledge but, never neglect your weak points. I would say it's well worth the struggle to well round yourself as an artist. You have to be able to communicate your work and clearly, so I would have to say push yourself to a higher limit so you have much more range to work with.

I have Jason and Andrew to thank for communicating the everlasting importance of the fundamentals. I was aware of the importance but, was not aware enough.

-Joshua

[JoshuaTheJames]

Besides if you really love art you will have no problem pushing every aspect of it in yourself.

It's as simple as that.

Get excited, Get a sketchbook, Get better and better and better....

:)

-Joshua

[seb]

just one observation i have made from my few years in art school - just because a person can make impressive drawings from a model doesnt necessarily mean that they can apply that to figures drawn without a model or reference. it probably depends on what your stressing in your work. illustrators usually tend to stress naturalism and color/light while people from an id background stress form development and overall design/harmony. this is not to say they cannot crossover, but more of a generalization.

[Cocofuppa]

I agree with what u guys are saying, but what i meant is that some of the err "younger" shall i say artists seem to think that Drawing anatomically correct figures is the be all and end all in drawing. Im all for pushing ourselves harder to improve, but I belive a fantastic idea is a trillion times more important than the execution(no matter how good it looks). I guess i just wanna see new ideas and new things happening with these younger artist, instead of same old desperation to draw super realistic figures when its not even that important.

Anyway, i will stop my ranting now b4 i get boood oot the forum lol.

[otis]

Yeah, but that "fantastic idea" will not be seen or understood unless the artist CAN excecute it properly.

It's like having someone on American idol sing a great classic song, but they #@$ it all up cause they can't sing.

Oh and FYI, there is no such thing as an "original idea". If you can think of one, I promise you that someone has already thought of it before. It's just up to you to EXCECUTE it properly. ...But if you don't have any skills to do this, your idea won't have a fighting chance.

[Cocofuppa]

Rite, im gonna stop now b4 all you folk have a fit and start gettin all hyped up. I only wanted to point oot a tiny thing, that is ALL! I see things from an illustrative point of view, as a JOB to make money, and not to create pwetty pictures of naked figures. As for original ideas otis, dont patronize me with ur superior knowledge, cos i dont giv a fook tbh.

I mean "what's the point of anything in this existential flicker of a reality anyways?
if it's meaningful to the person that's doin' it, all the power to 'em!

What the fook does that have to do with art? God art is sooo poncy these days with all this philisophical bullshit rofl

Peace :)

[NoUseFrAName]

it means that if you're going to ask a question like 'what's the point', it's got to be relative to an audience with some particular value in common.

in this case you should have directed it only at people who are doing the art for a job. When doing art for fun/practice, who's to say what's more important? the execution or the idea? that's entirely up to the artist.
On the other hand, when one is being paid to design, you pose an interesting question.....as an art director/employer, would you rather have a less skilled person who is massively creative, or a less creative person who is massively skillful?

obviously an excess of both these abilities is what makes an artist uber.....there's no debate there......
so far as determining which takes priority? I'd imagine that's up to the individual employer and what they need from you anyways. Case by case.

-Rob

[Cocofuppa]

ok folks, chill! I dont belive any of the elitist bullshit u guys are talkin down to me with ur big words and poncy theories bs, so dont waste ur time. Im a scottsish rough around the edegs illustrator, and ive been trained by ppl who know how it all works, its dog eat dog, and thats the bottom line!

[Deth Jester]

Hey coco you make an interesting point..

I do agree the concept is more important then the painting..

Back in Thunderdome 2... somebody had one of the greatest ideas ever! He had this big ugly dude that had a small companion that ran around his body and sewed him up while he was in combat.. problably one of the best concept ideas in Tdome.. But it wasn't anotomically correct and have great colors etc..

I think though... not only should we strive for good ideas... but we also need to push our art at the same time.. Being able to draw well just helps get the idea come over visualy a lot easier... Having a solid pallete and color choices lighting etc. mood.. all these things if done poorly can display a great concept poorly... and give the viewer who may need to model it, creat a texture, etc.. a harder time...

I hope I haven't said anything someone else has cause I hate to repeat...

anyhow.. just my $0.02..

peace
-mike

[otis]

Coco,
I don't know where you got the impression that I was patronizing you. All I said is that you have to have skills in anything, to express your idea, song, painting, whatever.

And nobody was speaking down to you with big words or theories u ignorant "FOOK"!

[Cocofuppa]

:D Ah well, shit appens eh.

[el coro]

lemme put it like this,in the video game production industry, if you have a great idea but cant communicate it visually, than you are a writer or a designer. not a concept artist. a concept artists job is to realize visually ideas. in order to do this, one must have some idea of how to make art. otis hit it right on the head with his comment. on the flipside, though, i gotta agree with seb, in the fact that there are a lot of people who can draw a figure flawlessly but cant be creative with their ideas, and that doesnt makea concept artist either. its a balance, i think. i dont thik anyone was trying to confuse you with "big words" or anything like that, its just a casual discussion in a forum where you gotta realize that life drawing is strongly supported. i can speak from experience when i say that i drew exclusively from my head daily for over 5 years before i took a life drawing class. when i started drawing from life, i had a hard time at first, but once i learned how to see, it elevated the believability of my unreferenced stuff alot. lets please not turn this into one of those heated flame war threads by taking shots. i was a punk ass gangsta kid from the streets of a filthy border town where the notion of being a professional artist is a joke. but i learned the ropes and am now a professional that gets paid to draw all day. if i had not taken the time to learn the figure, i assure you ii wouldnt be working in the industry right now. my figures aint flawless, far from it, but my understanding is what it needs to be for me to make a living in making concept art. i hope this helps, and again, lets please try to keep this thread civilized people:)-c36

[Cocofuppa]

And let that be the last word from el coro, and I will keep my harsh opinions to myself :)