Freelancing rants and questions

[Penpoint]

So, if you haven't noticed, this site seems swamped with people looking for jobs, and far too little employers to meet the demand.
Not surprising, but I wonder, what else it out there?
Anyone have suggestions for other sites, conferences, concept art job fairs, etc. to help a newcomer get started? I will freelance, work part-time, full-time, relocate, but I don't even see the offers out there. The market is bleak, but people are still finding work I know it. And the world will play video games through good and bad, so how do I get my foot in the door? And where should I be looking?

[dpaint]

If you are interested in working in games or broadcast you need a professional portfolio geared toward the industry.
I looked at your site and your work is all over the place; plus there is nothing geared towards the type of work most game companies want, realistic, crisp figures, vehicle and environment work.

Your work as it stands would be better suited for the gallery market stylistically, but there again you would have to alter the subject matter to suit the galleries.

The decision is up to you. If you want game work you need some clean enviro paintings, some character turnarounds, and vehicles with plan views; barring those things, done to the industry standard you'll have a hard time getting in the door.

[Penpoint]

Thanks for the insight.
I tried galleries for a few years to no avail. I sell originals now and then, but I really didn't find the right gallery setting yet.
My concept art portfolio is only a few months in the works. I only started digital painting 6 months ago. So, I realize I have a ways to go. It has jumpstarted my art career in general, so I appreciate the crit of my work and some real advice on where to take it.
For now though, for these first steps, where else can one look for freelance gigs? Any suggestions?
Thanks

[dpaint]

First I would get your portfolio up to snuff then decide if you are willing to relocate for a job in game dev, then go to Gamedevmap.com and go to each site that you think is somewhere you want to apply to and live and then check their job opportunities for art jobs some will have them some won't. When you find one, follow their submission policy and if they don't have one send them a cover letter with a bio and resume and a link to your portfolio. Do this every six months until it works. Hit all the other job boards you can find Monster, Gamasutra Gamespy etc. Go to places like Sigraph and E3, but all the while you should work on that portfolio.

[Penpoint]

dpaint,
Thanks for the links and advice. Getting some honest and straightforward advice is all it takes sometime to refuel. I appreciate it. Also, your inspiration blog is wonderful. Ive been keeping up with it since you made a crit of my work a few weeks back.

Anyone else out there who might have other resources in terms of job market, postings, etc. feel free to post them here. I know it would be helpful to newcomers like me, and those who just arent that familiar with the world of CG.
Thanks.

[Slade_Templar]

Wow gamedevmap.com really puts it out there...

I REALLY need to move.

[eightsix]

there is heaps of work out there, what most people dont realize is that you have to get off your ass and work for it. 99% of game and film studios dont advertise a job position, you have to research and send work to the places you are interested in.

also, i have to be blunt. alot of people dont find work because alot of people are just not good enough. its a business after all, and studios want to make money off you. if you are good enough, you will find work.

just dont sit on these forums and wonder why no one wants you to work for them.

be proactive!

[Penpoint]

@ eightsix
I followed your advice. got out there, met folks, took a class.
still on this site and others picking up freelance, but all in all the work is flooding in now mainly from the real world contacts I have made :)
Thank you.

To everyone else, get out there, get better. Conceptart.org is amazing, and got me started, but like all communities its a bubble. There is a huge world of opportunity out there.

[Danny_K]

Thanks for the information guys, its gold. Eightsix I could not agree with you more hard work will get you there nothing else.

Cheers!

[Stuart_Renton]

I'm at the other end of the scale. We have loads of work but we can't find the artists for particular jobs. I trawl through Concept art looking for the artists right for my job and they're all either too busy or have massive work lists before they can start.

So I look for freelancers and I get artists who drop out for no reason, take my money and never finish the work, or, more commonly, demand the world when we've never worked together before.

If they're not professional 'named' artists then they should expect to have to prove themselves, yet lately, I'm getting a bunch of 'why should I do any work for free?'

In the real world, I've had several job interviews where I've had to put presentations together, many of which have taken days, yet, artists lately, it seems, feel they're above that, and will tell you so, not necessarily politely.

It's putting me in a position where I'm reluctant to advertise for new work, which means getting work through existing networks (friends of artists, etc), which isn't always the widest net to cast your search.

It's getting rather bleak out there. But we are out there, we're just finding the pickings extremely slim of late.

[dpaint]

I'm at the other end of the scale. We have loads of work but we can't find the artists for particular jobs. I trawl through Concept art looking for the artists right for my job and they're all either too busy or have massive work lists before they can start.

So I look for freelancers and I get artists who drop out for no reason, take my money and never finish the work, or, more commonly, demand the world when we've never worked together before.

If they're not professional 'named' artists then they should expect to have to prove themselves, yet lately, I'm getting a bunch of 'why should I do any work for free?'

In the real world, I've had several job interviews where I've had to put presentations together, many of which have taken days, yet, artists lately, it seems, feel they're above that, and will tell you so, not necessarily politely.

It's putting me in a position where I'm reluctant to advertise for new work, which means getting work through existing networks (friends of artists, etc), which isn't always the widest net to cast your search.

It's getting rather bleak out there. But we are out there, we're just finding the pickings extremely slim of late.

No artist should have to prove themselves. Let me tell you I never work for free-ever. If you aren't paying enough to attract professional work, raise your prices. Professional developers don't ask for free work or proof; that is what a portfolio and references are for. If you do your due diligence on applicants there shouldn't be a problem. Also you need to have a contract that spells out what you expect and how people get paid.

There is a lot of crap out there on both sides of the fence. If you work without references or contracts you are asking for trouble.

[Stuart_Renton]

Professional developers don't ask for free work or proof; that is what a portfolio and references are for

That's simply not true in ANY reality. You're making fatuous comments that belong in fairyland.

It's horrific how many judgements you are making about my company on this response! You're singling me and my company out. We've paid industry rates for YEARS and I hear some horror stories from other companies about the shocking rates of pay and the way publishers take advantage of artists. Yet I'm sure you'll happily group me in that category...

Lastly, I'm not asking for 'free work'. We pay for concept art and we pay royalties. We give out free copies of our books and we really do go the extra mile for our artists. But we ask the same in return.

The comment about contracts was a bit much. A contract cross-countries, is practically useless. So an artist screws me; I'm hardly able to do much about it without expending massive time and even more effort. I check out references for all my artists, and yet the industry is littered with con artists (almost a joke there) and those out to screw others.

You may feel a portfolio is enough to warrant a contract. I do not.

[verdilak]

ugabuga ... well did some speculative work too just one time it lead to a job ...

but i really don't know for what else we create a portfolio, if not for applying for a job ... sure we do some private stuff too, then its often fun to do it ...
but drawing other peoples thoughts often becomes real, HARD work ...

I often think most job offers got absolutely no idea what time it takes to do some epic stuff. Ye it is our job ... and working is hard ...often.
Work must get paid ... thats it.

If speculative work is really so established, why the heck are all documents so freaky different and all of them want something else ... of course styles are different but at least some more *established* rules should be there, if it is really so ... what i just do not believe.

and no1 likes to work for free ... even if its half an hour ... its often wasted time cause the motivation and trust is missing.

And last but not least we offer a service! and no services are for free ...

Sorry but could not keep that after reading the other post and this one here.

Cheerioh!

[Penpoint]

There is a book called The Graphic Artists Guild Handbook for Pricing and Ethical Guidelines (http://www.graphicartistsguild.org/handbook/) that I suggest every Artist and Client read to get a basis for how to represent yourself, your rates/budget, and to get an idea of what is going on in the "real" world of graphic arts. Conceptart.org has legit studio work available and it has shady scam jobs available, and a lot in-between. If we all simply agree upon and inform ourselves as a community about these matters of work ethics based on a set of pricing guidelines and standards it will be easier for all. I agree that most of the pricing in this guideline may be high for start-ups and personal work, however it is worth noting what an artists time and work is worth in the market so a client can budget what they can afford and an artist knows what they can offer. The internet has made it very helpful to connect artists and clients together. However, there is too much conflicting information out there, as well as too many desperate artists saying yes to anything, and clients just looking for a good deal and not concerned about fair treatment. Do your homework, stand by your principles, don't undercut the market for other artists and DO NOT work for free unless you have something to gain from the experience.

[cptcrandall]

That's simply not true in ANY reality. You're making fatuous comments that belong in fairyland.

It's horrific how many judgements you are making about my company on this response! You're singling me and my company out. We've paid industry rates for YEARS and I hear some horror stories from other companies about the shocking rates of pay and the way publishers take advantage of artists. Yet I'm sure you'll happily group me in that category...

Lastly, I'm not asking for 'free work'. We pay for concept art and we pay royalties. We give out free copies of our books and we really do go the extra mile for our artists. But we ask the same in return.

The comment about contracts was a bit much. A contract cross-countries, is practically useless. So an artist screws me; I'm hardly able to do much about it without expending massive time and even more effort. I check out references for all my artists, and yet the industry is littered with con artists (almost a joke there) and those out to screw others.

You may feel a portfolio is enough to warrant a contract. I do not.


A portfolio should be all you need. Maybe one or two emails to feel out how professionally they can communicate. If you are getting ripped off, then you shouldn't being paying before you have a product delivered. I never expect payment before final approval. This leaves me much more vulnerable. I also don't work without a clear cut contract. I got ripped off once even under contract, and the dudes art was under NDA, it went public most rikki tick. It is no more his than he is willing to pay for it at that point. You mention in your previous post that artist complain about working for free. Absolutely. Unless you want crayon drawings you should expect nothing else from any professional artist. The only "art test" that I would take is for a full time position at a major studio. Not for an individual, and not for any contract work, even for a studio. If the artist isn't working out, settle what you owe him, and cut him from the project. This whole process isn't that hard, and is pretty standard across the board. When people start talking the way you are here and in other posts you've made on CA, it should send out all kind of warning flags, and generally only comes from people looking to steal a free piece of art here and there. Get on board the way business should be run, or settle for a sub-mediocre kid who is still in high school and doesn't know you are taking him for a ride, or care.

[Atreides]

Yeah, art tests are strictly for full time jobs as part of the interview process. No freelance client has the right to demand free work as a "test". Are you really that surprised that the dumbasses who agree to it turn out to be flaky dropouts?

As an AD, editor, whatever it is your job to be able to asses portfolios and level of professionalism. If your only way of doing that is to trick the artists into doing an art 'test', then you are testing for amateurism and inexpereince, rather than professionalism.

I'm not surprised you get turned down by serious artists.

[Stuart_Renton]

Actually, and while I'm not really surprised at the attitude here, I am a little saddened by it.

I've been commissioning art for many years, have a great relationship with my artists, but I find it's once you move away from the artists you know, or the industry 'professionals' that the problems occur. Finding artists on here is a bit of a minefield. Although I have had some really fantastic collaborations :)

I still fundamentally maintain that as with all work, hiring an artist to work on a huge project without at least having a strong insight into the artist's intent for the project - is foolish. I - and I've said this many times - have paid for concept art and covered the artist's time, yet I'm still getting bad attitude on this thread. Are people reading between the lines or are they trying to be offensive?

Getting compensation for trial work is a lot less than I've got for my various job interviews or novel submissions I've worked on over the years. Which, if I haven't got the job, amounts to nothing.

As for getting dumped halfway through a project. I've had contracts, followed through with references, and I've paid for art only to have the artist drop out half way through due to all manner of issues - how can anyone compensate for that? Most artists require an half up front payment on a project and quite a few have taken my money and buggered off with it. I'm not sure that anyone on here with any sense can possibly blame me for that.