people who think life drawing is wrong

[Patton Art]

I hate that. A friend of mine (who is also an artist) was complaining about figure drawing from life (nude, of course). He said it's too lustful, sexual, and God wouldn't approve of it. Then he said that he would learn the same thing if they wore clothes, or at least underwear and a bra.
He complained about the first person he wanted to see naked to be his wife...
but yeah, that really annoys me. I think there's a big difference between drawing from a nude model and 'being with' your wife.
Anyone have any input on their feelings of this subject? I'm sure we've all come across people who didn't see the point to life drawing?

[Sketch]

He's an "artist" and he's saying this? nuff said

[Coma]

Life drawing is not sexual or lustful, unless made so by the artists own perverse mind.

Nudity is the core of human form. bra and underwear he says? ahahahaha

The model makes the choice to let the art of her form develop an artists skills, there is NOTHING intimate or sexual going on between artist and model... If there is... than some one has a problem. If he cant except the beauty of the world as art than he should not be an artist.

[ZippZopp]

i decided after my sophmore year at college that i wanted to get into art and become an art major. i didn't know that much about it, but i wanted to get into it. at that time i had no clue really what i wanted to do, and didn't have may influences, i just wanted to create cool images. so i've been drawing, painting all that good stuff for about 2 and a half years now. the first drawing class i took had a lot of figure drawing, but that was at the begginning of my art education and i hated it, i didn't really see the use of it and kinda just glided through it. big big mistake!!! i definately think its worth it. i didn't think it was sexual, lustful or anything like that, but i just didnt' like it and didn't see the point. maybe he just isn't understanding the idea behind it. thats my take on it.....

[amphex]

Ive never been to a life drawing class, but I would really like to.
If your friend is such a god-fearing religious guy (no offense, Im religious too =)), then explain this to him:
God created adam and eve according to the Bible, right?
And he created them naked. God created man in the nude form..He didnt create them with clothes on now did he?
Man created clothes, possibly denying God's Will!
So, if anything, your friend should consider it a sin to not..not wear clothes..or something =)
Or, on second thought, just call him an idiot =P

[Jason Manley]

the first thing I would say in that situation is...who told you that crap?

however, the best argument...to that kind of thing...I learned at ringling.

"stop being so closed minded!"

or

"your'e being closed minded"


at ringling whoever said those words first always won the arguments...if I was in a heated verbal discussion I'd throw out those words and the other argument would just stop...haha...not nice...but effective and fun to watch.

the other thing that might do it...a very hard slap in his face when he gets like that...followed by "wake up man..yer being silly!" I would not recommend that though :)

learning to be an artist is about being the most open and sensitive as you can possibly be...on both a visual and emotional level. you cant understand the figure if you dont know what is there.

the earth is the center of the universe I tell you!! it is!! It is FLAT too!

j

ps..if he doesnt like it..he doesnt have to be there...but it is funny many christian churches have nudes in their religious works...is he not aware of that?

fanatics...I tell ya.

[jester]

Those people are not worth being listened to. Obviously they have a severe problem with themselves and live as grown up people. I call it ill. Mentally ill. Don't listen to them! If your friend can't look at naked people without thinking of lust and sex he's having a problem with his sexuality.

Jester

[retro002]

hey patton art,

tell him 2 things.

1. he won't learn about anatomy, if they wear clothes or underwear. for indepth knowledge he'd even have to cut naked people into pieces.

2. if he loves the Lord more than his artistry, then he is on the right way.

and perhaps 3. people who are religious are not mentally ill, quite probably it's even the other way round.

for myself i'd add 4. never get into discussions about religion and morality on internet forums

[jester]

Whoops, yes retro, you're right, to say never discuss religion or politics on the net. Now I see that my reply is easy to be misunderstood. I don't think religious people mentally ill, either. What I consider ill though is people who think that they are the ones who know God's will (never mind whether they are Christian, Islamic, Jewish or whatever). So if I offended anybody's religious feelings, I sincerely apologize.

Jester

[davi]

I'm lustful, sexual, and God wouldn't approve of me. Huzzah.

[Coma]

"if he loves the Lord more than his artistry, then he is on the right way. "


Oh brother, you are actually buying in to his assumption that God thinks nudity is some form of sin lol

[coriat]

Originally posted by davi
I'm lustful, sexual, and God wouldn't approve of me. Huzzah.
:chug: i drink to that ;chug:

i wish i could say something witty and clever here, but 1. everything has already been said.
and 2. i never been to a life drawing class, so...yeah.. i don't know much about it...

3. find a girl (friend) for that friend of yours, he's obsiously sexually frustrated.:rolleyes: :D :cool:






just in case;
i ment that last one (nr. 3) as a joke..i'm not funny, i know.

[gekitsu]

davi's reply hits the nail on its head.

oh man... people today - not to offend anyone but the most, i notice this behaviour on strictly/next to fanatic religious people - can't see a difference between beauty and lust, sexuality and such...

to stay in the context of religion, one could say: studying the nude is learning what god did. it's like studying the old masters, architecture or anything else.
when studying something intensely, you also handle it with a certain amount of respect, something that is often lost these days.

and yeah, i do find nudes beautiful. isn't it amazing to find out about the play of muscles & bones under the skin? to find out where a certain muscle defines form, a bony edge ot a little fat? how skin reacts to the tension under it, how everything creates a wholesome apparatus, a universal tool, our API to the world and is amazingly designed, too?

and could your friend please explain me what the hell is wrong when i find women beautiful? if men didn't find women beautiful, he didn't exist. he didn't exist without sexuality and lust at all.

but nudes in general being sexually oriented, lustful or even dirty? ah no... you need a hell of a lot more to make a situation with you and a nude women erotic.

jason: hah, you get these things taught at art schools, eh :D
let me tell you, i hate arguments like that. they're close-minded ;)

[Patton Art]

good thread.. I wasn't expecting so many replies.

Yeah, I'd have to say that I agree with everything here. I love how you put it, Gekitsu.

I'm glad it didn't get into a big religious discussion. I believe in the Lord too, but that doesn't mean I'm a fanatic, as people would put it. Like we all know, there's a big difference between a normal muslim and Al Quaeda.

Over the past few days I was thinkin about this at different times. Figure drawing is just studying our anatomy, just as a doctor would study his. I sure hope it's not a sin when a doctor checks for breast cancer, or studies in school how to tell if there's breast cancer in a patient. I don't think it's a sin when a doctor delivers a baby. I also doubt that a gynocologist sins when... he does what he does... lol.


I was talkin to a non-artist about this (ok.. it was my mom. i'm only 18 and still live at home). She thought that it was wrong too. She thought all they did was have a hot nude woman sit in front of the class. Like they never had guys or anything, no varying ages; just beautiful women with huge boobs. It's weird how much people will distort it when they hear of nudity.

[coriat]

blablabla ...just beautiful women with huge boobs, ... blablabla
that would be a different story offcourse :cool: :p :D
just kidding

[Coma]

how typical...

It's funny how society looks a beauty now a days (not that I've known any other days I'm 19 years old...)

skinny girls with big breasts are like some sort of sexual catalyst - and almost all women that take this form are violated by implants and other modifications of the flesh...

I honestly don't care about how a woman looks as long as she is being her self and not trying to conform to a stereotype for the sake of being accepted socially, or for the sake of self glorification//ego...

Most of the time life drawing models are NOT healthy women, some times over weight and some times they even have abnormal anatomy.

I think its sad how most males are controlled by their sex drive, and most women are controlled by their desire to please those around them in all the wrong ways.

[runes]

well then, i'll meet you guys and some of my favourite artists in hell.

:chug:

[Smeagol71]

Genesis 1:26a-27
"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness'...So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."

Genesis 2:25
"The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame."

It's all there in black and white. After sin entered the world it became our problem if we choose to see God's creation in any twisted and wrong way. If anything, the true artist most often sees the human body as God intended it to be. As a masterpiece, His finest creation!

[cotron]

I dont think it's meant to be lustful or sexual in any way...just a study of form. I especially don't think it's meant to be arousing when you have a 40 year old homeless dude who's falling asleep drunk, drooling on himself, and stinking up the room...or the grandma who poses doggystyle in front of you...guhhhh, if I was having any kind of "sinful" or personal thoughts at the time, I don't think I'd ever be able to have sex again. theyre disgusting as sex objects, but very interesting as art objects. I just wish we had the hot chicks with big boobs, just for once.... :rolleyes:

[amphex]

You should just hit your friend in the balls =)

[Brain]

I had my first real life drawing session on Tuesday, and I honestly didn't want to leave (I wouldn't have if it weren't for fine arts interviews). It was enjoyably challenging, even if I did hafta draw a guy's ass. *laughs*

All your base are belong to life drawing. (Sorry @;-)

[Lono]

id never be a nude model...

id probably be so paranoied about getting a boner that it would just happen.
if my mind is there,, the blood is there.

then id have to frantically flee the class room while trying to avoid impailing any of the students that would be in-between me and the door.:thumbsup:

-Lono

[amphex]

Rofl Lono you sick bastard =P

[mcotie]

Lono youre one crazy ass dude.

as far as the poor dude who is struggling with the morality of nude model drawing. Break the chains of monotheistic law and enjoy and prosper in the freedom of natural law. How do you truly expect to improve human figure drawing by drawing them with clothes on.

I agree with amphex and Jason, if he wants to improve as an artist, he needs to open his mind, quit whining, and take receipt of a crotch full of high speed foot.

Mitch

[gekitsu]

rofl, crotch full of high speed foot...
you americans are teh funniest ppl eva. :)

[ArtZealot]

I hate that. A friend of mine (who is also an artist) was complaining about figure drawing from life (nude, of course). He said it's too lustful, sexual, and God wouldn't approve of it. Then he said that he would learn the same thing if they wore clothes, or at least underwear and a bra.
He complained about the first person he wanted to see naked to be his wife...
but yeah, that really annoys me. I think there's a big difference between drawing from a nude model and 'being with' your wife.
Anyone have any input on their feelings of this subject? I'm sure we've all come across people who didn't see the point to life drawing?

Thats pretty crazy dude. I dunno what to tell ya! :shrug:

.................................................. .................................................. .............*snicker*:tihi:

[s.ketch]

Dude.

[Stoat]

Aiiiiii! Master, the thread! It's a-LIVE!

[JeffX99]

Get new friends. Quick.

[Black Spot]

Old thread is old. Probably deleted spam. Are any of the guys from 2002 still active?

[velderia]

Ughhh... That drawing of a bagel.

Too lustful.

Savory.

Must be banned.

[JeffX99]

OMG...thanks Black Spot!

[Jacob Kobryn]

I know this is an old thread but still FUCK THOSE PEOPLE.

[Chrome Coffee Mug]

Unless they're actively trying to put a stop to life drawing classes, they're pretty much entitled to their belief that "naked people are gross"

I'm actually okay with people who deny themselves things for their own beliefs. Doing so changes your perspective on life and realigns what you find to be important. people give up things for religious reasons all the time, either temporarily or permanently. Heck, some people go camping just to put back into perspective the fact that they can make due without all their modern conveniences. If he wants to never draw a naked body, then more power to him. A lot of middle eastern art revolves around not including any figures, clothed or not, and it turned out to be some pretty neat stuff.

also LOL old thread

[ArtZealot]

also LOL old thread

I'll admit, it wasn't a spam resurrection. Its the oldest thread i could find. I stumbled upon it, then felt like being a troll and bumping it. So i did.

[Partisan]

FUUUUUUUU -.- and Ive already been all over it to start ranting about: How the argument ended when his friend begun to talk about God .... because bringing up god is the end of every logic and therefore the end of every logical based conversation and conversation in general :-/

...not nice of you ArtZealot ! :-(

[ArtZealot]

FUUUUUUUU -.- and Ive already been all over it to start ranting about: How the argument ended when his friend begun to talk about God .... because bringing up god is the end of every logic and therefore the end of every logical based conversation and conversation in general :-/

...not nice of you ArtZealot ! :-(

Hah, yea it was a bit impulsive and poorly planned on my part. Truly my rebellious streak showed today though, but what can i say, i just like living on the edge. On the fringes of society, living for that once in a lifetime rush by bumping a 10 year old thread. I apologize for putting you in that sort of situation though, lol.

[OmenSpirits]

the first thing I would say in that situation is...who told you that crap?

however, the best argument...to that kind of thing...I learned at ringling.

"stop being so closed minded!"

or

"your'e being closed minded"


at ringling whoever said those words first always won the arguments...if I was in a heated verbal discussion I'd throw out those words and the other argument would just stop...haha...not nice...but effective and fun to watch.

the other thing that might do it...a very hard slap in his face when he gets like that...followed by "wake up man..yer being silly!" I would not recommend that though :)

learning to be an artist is about being the most open and sensitive as you can possibly be...on both a visual and emotional level. you cant understand the figure if you dont know what is there.

the earth is the center of the universe I tell you!! it is!! It is FLAT too!

j

ps..if he doesnt like it..he doesnt have to be there...but it is funny many christian churches have nudes in their religious works...is he not aware of that?

fanatics...I tell ya.
Uh-Uh.

First reaction would be (from me).

*points at friend* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...and after about 15 minutes of that, I'd tell them to GTF away from me until they have a rational thought in their head that is based upon anything factual that proves such an ascertion.

Well, actually, I wouldn't know someone that closed off to reality, so take my actions with a grain of salt. :)

[Wooly ESS]

Wait until you get a fat, sixty year old male model in life drawing class. Where is your lust and sin now?

[OmenSpirits]

Wait until you get a fat, sixty year old male model in life drawing class. Where is your lust and sin now?
Had a model the size of Jabba the hut one time (no insult, they were that kinda size). No lusting there my friend!

[ArtZealot]

Had a model the size of Jabba the hut one time (no insult, they were that kinda size). No lusting there my friend!

I find those types of models to be great practice for learning how flesh behaves and stretches, etc. It's like doing a drapery study but human flesh draperies

[Conniekat8]

I hate that. A friend of mine (who is also an artist) was complaining about figure drawing from life (nude, of course). He said it's too lustful, sexual, and God wouldn't approve of it. Then he said that he would learn the same thing if they wore clothes, or at least underwear and a bra.
He complained about the first person he wanted to see naked to be his wife...
but yeah, that really annoys me. I think there's a big difference between drawing from a nude model and 'being with' your wife.
Anyone have any input on their feelings of this subject? I'm sure we've all come across people who didn't see the point to life drawing?

nudity isn't the same thing as sexuality. I'd be concerned about people who can't tell those two apart.
What if they have to go to a doctor, and take their clothes off to be examined in one way or another?????

[N D Hill]

His extremely limited scope of acceptable imagery will only hinder his development and confine him conceptually. He should get over his own baggage and grow up. If he can't study the human form in a class setting without his nethers getting all tingly, the problem is his own immaturity.

[stragan]

i had to pull down my pants in front of a doctor so he can touch me there
does that mean im gay? NO.

[blogmatix]

I'm lustful, sexual, and God wouldn't approve of me. Huzzah.

Must be the same with me, 'cause I'd give my front teeth for life drawing classes. I guess God's gonna get me yet...

http://i.imgur.com/K9BQF.jpg

[Matani]

I once had a discussion about this, a rational one mind you, and it stayed rational all the way through.

The person I was speaking to pointed out that students in medical school viewed naked people quite often, in fact, these naked people were dead. And they also take the dead, naked, people apart little by little as a part of their education.

Many religious schools have medical schools in them as well, and find no problems with such things because it is for education.

Life drawing is for education, although if someone wants to cover their own models up for their own preferences, that's their deal. I know that I would never model myself, and if everyone in the world was like me, well, I guess we'd have no more nude life drawing models, but not everyone's like me at this time.


So chill out, for newcomers it may be hard to see the difference, but educational purposes (and poses) are a lot different from the non-education nude things.

[Jacob Kobryn]

If you're an outsider to the art world you may find it odd (you don't even know how many boys, especially in high school would be like "What... You draw nude girls? :o ") but the process of life drawing could be hardly more removed from sexual thought. You should be too absorbed in the drawing process to even let a lusty thought pop into your head. It's no secret that many of the models are not very attractive, as well. There's also a notion that the models would be creepy, deranged, outcasts, or (for females) whores... That is no way the case. I've met some incredibly nice models. Some of them are even artists themselves and can dialog about the process.

But I say it again, fuck those guys. It'd be hard not to be very very very off put by someone actually has the views the OP noted.

[OfficialLamp]

I love how people think that every model must be super hot and female. Not the case in the slightest and thank goodness for that. Classes need more variety in body types.

[Angel Intheuk]

I find those types of models to be great practice for learning how flesh behaves and stretches, etc. It's like doing a drapery study but human flesh draperies

My imagination ran wild just then...wasn't pretty lol! :lifedrawing:

but yeah I've drawn all types of bodies..gotta say the most interesting ones are the people who obviously do yoga.

[Beeston]

I was in a Church last year who said that you shouldn't so much as LIVE with your partner because you might be tempted by them whilst they're wearing pyjamas (or something.) I told them what life drawing was, and needless to say I'm not in that church anymore.

[dpaint]

Here in Virginia out in the sticks away from DC, they don't offer many nude classes at the colleges. You have to go to the private art leagues with the blue haired ladies to paint from the nude model. It is one of the frustrating things about living here coming from SF where the models were professional.

I don't know what the deal is about drawing fat ugly people, I never liked it. I want them to be in shape; men or women I don't care but for most of the paintings I do I'm not going to draw protagonists that look like Walmart shoppers for my illustrations. If I wanted to draw someone old and fat I'd just get a mirror.

It seems my experience with models is different (not for me personally) since many of the models ended up dating and marrying their art instructors who ran the figure classes. Now how that happens when according to all of you it is so non sexual I don't know.

[sanya]

Some people are uncomfortable with nudity, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Yeah, myself, I prefer nude live models, but at the same time it isn't a clothed or unclothed model who is going to determine your success as an artist, it's how much time and effort you put in.

[onionface]

as soon as 'god' makes an appearance, all integrity is lost.

[stragan]

"well but but but theyre naked people!! it MUST be sexual!!!"

its the content that makes something sexual not the physical body itself omg
...... thats why women should be allowed to go topless..http://e.deviantart.net/emoticons/t/trollface.png

[TheGreekDollmaker]

Had these kind of people too when i was drawing nudes.

They were a bunch of girls in their mid 30s that refused too see the naked form and went too church too pray for it.

[dpaint]

One of the things I always found wierd was even in SF bay area, the nights we had men pose, most of the class wouldn't show up. We had schedules posted in advance so you could see who the model was but people used it to not come when the men were there. It used to piss me off because we divided the cost between participants.
I guess most of the artist guys felt they didn't want to be thought of as gay having naked men in their sketchbooks and the women artists were afraid they would just jump on them and ride them like a mechanical bull to the big 'O' corral.
I don't know it was wierd, the classes would literally go from 10 to 15 artists down to 2 or 3 for the male sessions then back to normal as soon as a woman posed.

[stragan]

thats funny, i was in a class once and this hot looking guy came in but i admit that 99% of the artists were teenage girls
me and this other guy were the only guys in class and we are straight as fuck!! besides that i dont see what the problem is

[OmenSpirits]

Back in college during the life drawing class (male model), the female chatted him up for the complete 3 hours, "What did you do other than this", and "where are you from" and such.

When we placed our pictures on the wall, one guy drew him with a tiny body and a big penis. We all laughed & the kid flat out said, "He just couldn't look at him."

:D

[ArtZealot]

thats funny, i was in a class once and this hot looking guy came in but i admit that 99% of the artists were teenage girls
me and this other guy were the only guys in class and we are straight as fuck!! besides that i dont see what the problem is

ಠ_ಠ


......

[Aryeh]

ಠ_ಠ


......

QFT ಠ_ಠ

gays +1

[Partisan]

ಠ_ಠ


......

you only wanted to use this hilarious smile . ADMIT IT ! ^^

[ArtZealot]

you only wanted to use this hilarious smile . ADMIT IT ! ^^

rofl, i've had that one in my pocket for quite awhile, waiting for the perfect moment (though i did steal the face from reddit)

[stragan]

what
it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out if someone of the same sex is good looking or not.

and i worded it to sound funny on purpose guys
no offense gay guys

http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/t/r/trollfaceplz.gif

[ArtZealot]

what
it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out if someone of the same sex is good looking or not.

and i worded it to sound funny on purpose guys
no offense gay guys

http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/t/r/trollfaceplz.gif

haha, im just giving u a hard time, couldn't resist.