Color profile problem in Photoshop

[Loathsome]

Okay so I calibrated my monitor a while ago. And it saves it in a new color profile.

Photoshop always asks if it should colormanage my images (see image), same thing when I export them.

My problem is that sometimes even though I colormanage my images (see image), they end up looking different when I put them up online. This is really bad!

Anyone know how to fix this?
Also sorry if it's in the wrong sub-forum.

[Vari]

Same thing happened to me. I started making my images in the adobe 1998 (or something) color profile but when i uploaded them online they looked less colorful somehow. That's why i got back to sRGB. I suppose that the internet (or site, i don't really know) just doesn't support the color profile of the image and renders it in sRGB. But I'm really not sure about that, just speculations :P

[Baron Impossible]

Some apps and browsers don't take notice of the colour profile.

[Loathsome]

Ah damn.
Anyway. Will my calibration matter at all in photoshop if I don't run it on the colorprofile that my calibration made? Will it affect my stuff negatively?

It'd suck if the calibration stuff was for nothing and I'm back at square one.

edit: let me explain further.

I calibrated my monitor. It gave me a profile, this messes adobe up because either I work with my profile that my calibrator did and the image I make looks like crap online. or. I use sRGB and let my monitor make it look like crap when I export it because then I'm viewing the image in the profile my calibrator created.

So either way, the image will always look weird for me.

This is so annyoing cause I'd rather be painting than messing with technical problems.

[hecartha]

I am not sure to understand exactly what are your settings.

You have calibrated your monitor, so your calibrator created a monitor profile.
Inside this profile, there is information about the real color space of your monitor as every monitor are not using a perfect sRGB color space which means some color are too much saturated and some other are not enough saturated depending of the limitation of your display.
The monitor profile is loaded by your operating system, so everything you are viewing is displayed correctly using the color space of your monitor.

Now Photoshop allows using standard color space (I mean something less specific than your unique monitor color space) like sRGB. As your monitor profile is loaded by your operating system, Photoshop will use color space information stored inside to emulate a real sRGB color space. That means it will increase or decrease saturation (of blue, red, yellow, orange...any colors) depending of the difference between your monitor color space and the color space you are using in Photoshop (sRGB?).

Let me resume:
your image -> sRGB profile -> sRGB <- emulation <- monitor color space

now when you are viewing your image inside a program which does not support color management, the things are like that:
your image = monitor color space (which is close from sRGB I suppose)
as sRGB is the default color space of your operating system, the things will not be too different. That depends mostly of the difference between your monitor color space and a real sRGB color space.

But here is what is happening when you are using another color space like Adobe RGB:
with color management:
your image -> Adobe RGB profile -> Adobe RGB <- emulation <- monitor color space
without color management:
your image = monitor color space (which is close from sRGB) = everything under-saturated

Anyway, as Adobe RGB is very different than sRGB, do not try to emulate such different color space with sRGB display. Even if it looks more saturated, it cannot be as saturated than a real Adobe RGB because of hardware limitation. Now it is not an issue if you are using wide gamut monitor.

That is the use of color management.
Now you can also deactivate color management in Photoshop, so your image can be excatly the same than in ArtRage, PaintTool SAI or anything else that do not use color management (so color space emulation is removed). You just need to set in Photoshop under color settings under working space, monitor RGB (followed by monitor profile name).
So Photoshop will never store inside your image, the monitor color space... and never try to force that.

The bad use of color management is forcing Photoshop using a monitor color space as a real working space (monitor icc file) because Photoshop will save this profile with your image. But your monitor profile is unique and it is not a standard.

[Loathsome]

Wow that was a lot at once for someone like me (not being so good at this technical stuff), haha.
So anyway.. short and simple: I should just change the profile stored in photoshop under color settings to "monitor color" and everything should be fine?

I'll try that out and see how it works.
Thanks a lot for the help!


edit: I did that and tried saving one of my works and when I viewed it, it looked very very dark. The only time the image looks correct on screen is when I use the ICC profile when saving. And that's bad since as I experienced, it screws up the viewing of it online at times.

Here's my color settings:
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1563/lalalalad.jpg
Instead of the monitor color on RGB should it be sRGB?

Sorry, I'm so damn thick when it comes to things like this D:

edit again:
I tried changing the RGB thing to sRGB and it's now saving the images correctly. Atleast I hope they do, it seems right anyway.

[hecartha]

I am sorry, I posted too much theory because there was a lack of information in your post. I mean when you are saying about "online viewing", it does not mean anything because some internet browser are color managed and some others are not:
-Internet Explorer till version 8 does not know anything about color management.
-Internet Explorer 9 beta 1 is able to use icc profile version 2 and version 4. Anyway, at the moment, it is unable to adjust your color depending of your system color space.
-Firefox 3.6.11 is able to load icc profile version 2 but knows nothing about icc profile version 4.
Anyway, it is able to adjust colors considering your system color space. There is also an hidden option (https://developer.mozilla.org/En/ICC_color_correction_in_Firefox) to make it even better so it can consider any image without embedded profile as sRGB image (which is pretty smart).
-Opera 10.63 knows nothing about color management.
-Chrome 7 knows nothing about color management.
*EDIT*
-Windows Photo Viewer (the one in Windows 7) or Windows Photo Gallery (the one in Windows Vista) are color management aware with icc profile version 2 and 4 and display your image considering your system color space. (It seems I have made a mistake before my latest edition...so it fixed now)

Sooooo....depending of the program you use for viewing your image, the thing can be different. That is the reason why I came with theory only.
*EDIT* Here an image to know if your browser is color management ready:
this image comes from there (http://www.color.org/version4html.xalter)

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/Color%20and%20Calibration/Upper_Left.jpghttp://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/Color%20and%20Calibration/Upper_Right.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/Color%20and%20Calibration/Lower_Left.jpghttp://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/Color%20and%20Calibration/Lower_Right.jpg

So, depending of the result:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/Color%20and%20Calibration/Supports_All.jpg Support icc profile version 2 and 4

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/Color%20and%20Calibration/Supports_V2_Only.jpg Support icc profile version 2 only

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p76/hecartha/Color%20and%20Calibration/Supports_None.jpg no color management support

Anyway, this test is unable to show if the program is able to adjust colors considering system color space information.

Does your image looks the same in Firefox, Windows Photo Viewer/Gallery and Photoshop?

[Loathsome]

I'm viewing my images in the usual gallery viewer that comes with windows xp.
The images looks like they should if I save them without any profiles, both in the gallery viewer and online. It doesn't always do that though if I use a profile.

What I did was that I simply didn't use the profile at all, I go with that profile that you said went with the operative system (that sRGB thing) and it looks the same in Photoshop as in firefox and so on.

However. I hope I shouldn't have to use profiles to make my images look like they should when they come out in print. I just want my images on the computer to come out as close as the image I made as possible. I've done a bunch of color adjustments on the monitor, so I suppose I'm as close as I can get at this point.

Thanks a lot for all the help and info man! It seems to be working now.

[Loathsome]

I see the second version of that image by the way.