[NUDITY] The Vilppu / Sheldon Learning Thread

[Xeon_OND]

Introduction

This thread is for my questions regarding the Vilppu / Sheldon approach to figure drawing.

If you happen to draw in this style, feel free to share your work here, comment on mine and others, give directions etc.

I can still remember the first time I saw Vilppu's drawings, I knew I wanted to draw in this style (I think it's the animation style of drawing), because the figures and lines look as if they are truly dancing on the page. I swear I saw the figures move in front of my eyes. LOL

I'm not sure if Michael Hampton and Mike Mattesi are students of Vilppu, but their drawing approach (especially Hampton) seems identical.

I'm currently learning Sheldon's approach to drawing, and he draws in pretty much the same style as Vilppu.
I've his videos 1 - 19 and all 3 of his textbooks.

Good day!
Xeon

[Diarum]

lol glad you said that there was Nudity lol, I didn't think there was so much either lol and my mom is like right behind me >.< Damn you Xeon!

[Diarum]

Luckily she was not facing me, she had her back turned so talk about dodging a bullet :D
/bump? :P

[Tom Fenton]

Your getting the idea, yes, force its called its almost like gravity pulls but with the indentations of stretching and expanding on one side compared to the other. My honest opinion is u dont need a teacher for this, i would recommend drawing all the villpu drawing manual drawings and reading the book. do some poses using the stuff villpu has taught u by using posemaniacs.com to get models. then after that i would recommend moving on to bridgeman or loomis just to get a fresh imput on anatomy and to see if you can catch on to a different exercise better then u did on one with villpu

[laurghita]

You can learn a lot by reading all th epost from http://babelab.blogspot.com/

[Jason161]

I sent you a pm, I actually have all those videos and vilppu ones as well and would be happy to work with you.

[Xeon_OND]

Hi all,

I've updated the original post accordingly, and my question now is:

Sheldon talks about rhythm and all, and I believe this rhythm is the key to drawing gestures in the later stages. I'm now tracing over the drawings in Sheldon's IT book and Boot Camp book, and also drawing on newspapers (sports section, with all kinds of action poses) to identify the rhythm, weight, balance, motivation, line of action, compress-stretch etc. I'm also trying to observe people's rhythm whenever I walk in the streets, on the trains etc.

How familiar do I have to be with this rhythm thing before I move on to proportion? After proportion, Sheldon teaches the Line of action in detail, and after that, it's gesture (wire, shape and form lay-ins etc.).

Thanks!
Xeon

[Just_Nonplussed]

hello,

yeah, i learnt quite a bit from mike mattesi. i read his book on 'force' and anatomy. it seems similar to vilppu, but i haven't studied him or sheldon.

mike mattesi has a couple of formulas that i picked up. well, he has lots of ideas and formulas, but the basic figure construction process he teaches is 'road of rhythm' and 'rollercoaster of rhythm'. the former is a very physics-based approach to gestures, where you draw a combination of straight lines and curves that play off each other to form a strong dynamic form. the latter is for truly 3D movements and you make lines like a rollercoaster, looping and connecting. very different from the usual strictly observational/objective approach of the standard methods.

mattesi's style has rubbed off on me, but i couldn't follow his methods all the way through. i will post some efforts here for you to see.

[Just_Nonplussed]

these are what i'd call 'rhythm forms', where the rhythm and feeling guide the spontaneous pose as a 'whole' expression. what this means is you surrender control over every limb to express an overall emotional state. i think this is due to there being no skeleton.

with skeletal poses you get more direct control, as if you're acting the character. in my experience, rhythm is spontaneous. you 'go with the flow' kind of thing. but there are many formulas that work in different ways. for example, mattesi in the book i read, just drew people in front of him using the 'rollercoaster of rhythm' formula. i went to life drawing to try that out, but in the end i couldn't get it to work. these sketches from imagination use the same principles though and worked better for me.

be aware also of the difference between rhythm and shape. you can do a rhythm, but it doesn't mean you know about shape. you need to learn shape and the muscles in addition to all the fancy rhythm stuff. i tried to do rhythm drawings from imagination before i had properly learned anatomy, and they looked bad. it was only until i learnt with a skeleton/muscle process that i could do the rhythm/energy gestures. of course, mike was never helpful enough to mention so in his book!

[Just_Nonplussed]

and here are some 'skeletal' forms for comparisson. all from imagination.

[Jason161]

Hi all,

I've updated the original post accordingly, and my question now is:

Sheldon talks about rhythm and all, and I believe this rhythm is the key to drawing gestures in the later stages. I'm now tracing over the drawings in Sheldon's IT book and Boot Camp book, and also drawing on newspapers (sports section, with all kinds of action poses) to identify the rhythm, weight, balance, motivation, line of action, compress-stretch etc. I'm also trying to observe people's rhythm whenever I walk in the streets, on the trains etc.

How familiar do I have to be with this rhythm thing before I move on to proportion? After proportion, Sheldon teaches the Line of action in detail, and after that, it's gesture (wire, shape and form lay-ins etc.).

Thanks!
Xeon

Xeon,
It will be quite hard for anyone to answer this question for you as it is really when you feel you understand it enough to be able to utilize it as you move into the construction videos (lay in). When I was working with those videos I asked sheldon, What am I suppose to be getting out of tracing? Besides muscle memory, he told me the phrase he uses in his first videos, GCAT. Gesture, Construction, Anatomy, Technique. So I saw your images with the gesture lines and the nose knows where the weight is where you overlayed the arrows. It would appear to me that you understand it and now can utilize it when working with the proportions and lay ins. If you can see those rhythm lines in people and magazines then I would say you are ready to move on. Vilppu says on his website, if you read that his students usually draw for 4-6 hours just doing gesture rhythms, and then moves on to next chapter. So how long you take is really up to you, that is a classroom setting so its more fast paced I would assume. I hope this helps.

[Xeon_OND]

Thanks for the replies, guys! ;)

@ Just_Nonplussed: I just checked out your SB and your Mattesi-styled drawings are very alive compared to the pre-Mattesi ones! ;) I used to skim through Mattesi's book in the library but didn't really looked at it in detail, and now I'm hunting it down again.

Besides muscle memory, he told me the phrase he uses in his first videos, GCAT. Gesture, Construction, Anatomy, Technique. So I saw your images with the gesture lines and the nose knows where the weight is where you overlayed the arrows. It would appear to me that you understand it and now can utilize it when working with the proportions and lay ins. If you can see those rhythm lines in people and magazines then I would say you are ready to move on. Vilppu says on his website, if you read that his students usually draw for 4-6 hours just doing gesture rhythms, and then moves on to next chapter. So how long you take is really up to you, that is a classroom setting so its more fast paced I would assume. I hope this helps.
Thanks Jason! :) I think I'll spend a month more on rhythm to truly get a better feel of it.

Btw, now that you mention "lay-ins", aren't those "lay-ins" (wire, shape, form) part of the Gesture phase? Or are they classified under the Construction phase?

If you flip to page 21 of your IT book (normal IT, not Advanced IT) and page 58 - 59 of your Boot Camp book, you see all these loose, flowing drawings.....those are the actual Gesture drawings and not lay-ins? :)

Thanks again!
Xeon

[Bering]

You should sign up for one of Glenn Vilppus courses / classes. They are amazing. I had him teaching me for a week - and it was absolutely amazing and the approach he is using, makes it very easy to learn!

I have some of the lesson papers he gave me. When I fetch em, I can explain a bit more if you like.

[Jason161]

Thanks for the replies, guys! ;)

@ Just_Nonplussed: I just checked out your SB and your Mattesi-styled drawings are very alive compared to the pre-Mattesi ones! ;) I used to skim through Mattesi's book in the library but didn't really looked at it in detail, and now I'm hunting it down again.


Thanks Jason! :) I think I'll spend a month more on rhythm to truly get a better feel of it.

Btw, now that you mention "lay-ins", aren't those "lay-ins" (wire, shape, form) part of the Gesture phase? Or are they classified under the Construction phase?

If you flip to page 21 of your IT book (normal IT, not Advanced IT) and page 58 - 59 of your Boot Camp book, you see all these loose, flowing drawings.....those are the actual Gesture drawings and not lay-ins? :)

Thanks again!
Xeon


Looking at my books again, I can see how you get that. I guess any gesture drawing is indeed a lay in. Vilppu uses his gesture as a lay in, as did Tintorretto. What I meant was you can now focus more on the TECHNIQUE of the 3 different lay ins he describes and proportions rather then the rhythm of the gesture.
When studying or copying, it is important to really analyze the pose, and FEEL the pinch and stretch, and forms. Really pretend you are feeling it with your pencil or pen as you draw it. Also gesture drawings if done with extreme rhythm appear to be done fast because they are so fluid and have so much action and speed your eye through them. However they are not always and do in no way have to be fast, unless of course trying to capture a moment in life. Take your time to really feel and analyze the poses, or drawings from masters you copy, and really try to see the underlying marks and why they are there, try to figure out how each piece is working and fitting with the rest. This was hard for me to learn at first, I copied every line I saw, and was thinkin "muscle memory". However when I really started looking and trying to imagine myself feeling the forms, it was much more productive. I hope this helps. DVDs are in the mail by the way.

EDIT: Also, when capturing the action doing the gesture, always be thinking of the forms and imagine everything in 3d space, rather than the contours. What helped me was thinking of contours only as the Cross Contours you draw across the forms to show direction in space and volume, and not the outline of the form. We are 3d in space, we do not have lines around us, our forms and volume i what CREATES the contours. So in fact we are CREATING contours when drawing the figure, think of it all in 3d and try to draw the 3d forms, sphere like, cylinder like forms etc, and you will have your outside contour. However trying to outline the figure always ruined my drawing, I just really started to understand when Glenn said to create the contours rather then draw them. That really helped me, so just keep in mind simple forms and 3d space, and create the forms and fit the together, which in turn creates your outside contour. :)

[Xeon_OND]

You should sign up for one of Glenn Vilppus courses / classes. They are amazing. I had him teaching me for a week - and it was absolutely amazing and the approach he is using, makes it very easy to learn!
I have some of the lesson papers he gave me. When I fetch em, I can explain a bit more if you like.
I wish I can, but I can't. No $ to fly to the US. :D
If he (or Sheldon) ever comes to Singapore, I'm gonna take a picture with him + get him to sign on my bag, t-shirt, drawing board etc. :yayca: Oh yeah, I would love to hear you explain more of those Vilppu lesson papers!

Looking at my books again, I can see how you get that. I guess any gesture drawing is indeed a lay in. Vilppu uses his gesture as a lay in, as did Tintorretto. What I meant was you can now focus more on the TECHNIQUE of the 3 different lay ins he describes and proportions rather then the rhythm of the gesture.
When studying or copying, it is important to really analyze the pose, and FEEL the pinch and stretch, and forms. Really pretend you are feeling it with your pencil or pen as you draw it. Also gesture drawings if done with extreme rhythm appear to be done fast because they are so fluid and have so much action and speed your eye through them. However they are not always and do in no way have to be fast, unless of course trying to capture a moment in life. Take your time to really feel and analyze the poses, or drawings from masters you copy, and really try to see the underlying marks and why they are there, try to figure out how each piece is working and fitting with the rest. This was hard for me to learn at first, I copied every line I saw, and was thinkin "muscle memory". However when I really started looking and trying to imagine myself feeling the forms, it was much more productive. I hope this helps. DVDs are in the mail by the way.

EDIT: Also, when capturing the action doing the gesture, always be thinking of the forms and imagine everything in 3d space, rather than the contours. What helped me was thinking of contours only as the Cross Contours you draw across the forms to show direction in space and volume, and not the outline of the form. We are 3d in space, we do not have lines around us, our forms and volume i what CREATES the contours. So in fact we are CREATING contours when drawing the figure, think of it all in 3d and try to draw the 3d forms, sphere like, cylinder like forms etc, and you will have your outside contour. However trying to outline the figure always ruined my drawing, I just really started to understand when Glenn said to create the contours rather then draw them. That really helped me, so just keep in mind simple forms and 3d space, and create the forms and fit the together, which in turn creates your outside contour. :)
Thanks a lot Jason! You are one big help! We had a life drawing session today with 2-min poses and I tried drawing out the gesture of the pose using Sheldon's rhythms (the 2 main opposing curves on the body) and tried to fill in the rest of the gesture using whatever I know. It's like a watered-down version of the real gesture and the proportions are off, obviously. Will post them soon.
LOL.....haven't watched the video on line of action and gesture yet.

The session was really fun, and it gave me the enthusiasm to go out there and sketch real people using Vilppu / Sheldon's gesture style. I'm gonna try it soon once I'm comfortable with proportions, rhythm and weight. ;)

See you guys! Thanks!
Xeon

[Jason161]

Yeah gesture or getting the action is most important and always start with that, just light enough to build forms on after ya know! Then while doing so keep in mind proportions, and 3d space, and how each form overlaps and fits into each other, also dont be afraid to push the gesture a bit more and really just experiment and have fun!


I wish I can, but I can't. No $ to fly to the US. :D
If he (or Sheldon) ever comes to Singapore, I'm gonna take a picture with him + get him to sign on my bag, t-shirt, drawing board etc. :yayca: Oh yeah, I would love to hear you explain more of those Vilppu lesson papers!


Thanks a lot Jason! You are one big help! We had a life drawing session today with 2-min poses and I tried drawing out the gesture of the pose using Sheldon's rhythms (the 2 main opposing curves on the body) and tried to fill in the rest of the gesture using whatever I know. It's like a watered-down version of the real gesture and the proportions are off, obviously. Will post them soon.
LOL.....haven't watched the video on line of action and gesture yet.

The session was really fun, and it gave me the enthusiasm to go out there and sketch real people using Vilppu / Sheldon's gesture style. I'm gonna try it soon once I'm comfortable with proportions, rhythm and weight. ;)

See you guys! Thanks!
Xeon

[Xeon_OND]

Hi Jason and guys!

I'm now at the end of the 2nd Tools video, where he talks about The Line of Action and Landmarks. I'm gonna spend some time in these 2 areas because they're like the "make-or-break" part of the basic understanding. :D

I watched the video 2 - 3 times and tried to draw along with the video (I slowed video speed to 0.5 times slower), but Sheldon is too fast! LOL
Had difficulty catching up, but I can understand the flow of some parts of it.

I've quite a bit of questions:

1) When drawing the gesture, do you start with the Line of Action or the Motivator? I assume it's Line of Action (that curvy line from the pit of the neck to the pubic arch)?

2) When doing gesture and you draw all those flowing lines, how do you estimate and keep track of which location to draw the next line and how long to draw that line? This is a big question I'm having.

For e.g: a model is posing, and you try to gesture-draw him. You start with the line of action, then you proceed to put the line to indicate the rhythm of the torso (Cal-State-Cool!). Where do you place this torso line and how long do you draw it? Then, after that is done, you go down to the upper-leg. Where do you start putting this line for the upper leg down? It could be anywhere somewhat higher or lower.

Every time when I try to draw gestures, I can see and feel the flow of rhythms on the model, but when I try to get it down on paper using flowing lines, I end up being lost of where the next line should be put, and how long it should go etc.

Because Vilppu/Sheldon's style of gesture uses incomplete, suggestive lines (beautiful!), it's like, there's nothing to refer to on the paper that tells you accurately where to put the next line and the length of that line (unlike a contour drawing). It's hard for the eyes to estimate correctly when there's nothing for you to base your estimation on.

3) Last question: In the last part of the Tools video, Sheldon talks about Landmarks : those dots and points on the various important sections of the human body. This Landmarks thing seems to be an anatomy thing and I'm surprised he puts it in the Tools video.
Exactly what are these Landmarks for and how do we apply it to drawing gestures? Maybe he has a reason for putting this Landmarks section together with the gesture stuff (Line of Action etc.).

Thanks a lot! :D
Xeon

[Jason161]

Okay the landmarks are very important, the show form and help show the direction of the leg for instance, how its turned in space. Also they give it that sense of realism obviously. Showing the side plane of the rib cage is easy if you have the 2 landmarks from the bottom of the cage, you know exactly where it is turning to the side!
Also about the gesture drawings. When watching vilppu do it, he starts with the head, but also says it doesnt matter where you start. The important thing is to get the action, the total. Try to forget about where to put the lines, just try to think in 3d, about the forms, and how they are pinching or stretching, and try to imagine that your tracing the flow of water trickling down the figure. So its not to say you put the lines on the contours of the figure, but that doesnt mean you cannot use the outside contour. When sheldon uses the wire laying he really is just getting the action of the pose. It serves only that purpose. You can use the cal state cools, or your own style, just placing the forms. Then you go back on top and start focusing more on building the forms on top of that(construction). Then landmarks(anatomy). So start thinking of the figure in 3d the best you can, basic shapes, cylinders etc, then think about water flowing down and around the forms, mimic that with your pencil. Also think about proportions, I think that will help you in placing the legs and what not. The legs are roughly 3 1/2 to 4 heads tall, so depending on foreshortening, you can guesstimate how long to make the gesture lines. The rest of it is really going off the picture or model, you place them as you see them, however think of the proportions as you do it, and how one thing fits into another.
Remember the most important thing here is getting the total. It doesnt matter how you do it, what type of lines you use, Ive seen gestures that look like complete scribbles from a mad fellow in a mental ward, however they had the action of a pose. Sheer mess but they had the action, the end result after placing the forms and then rendering was beautiful.
So get the total, dont worry so much on where to place them, they dont have to connect. Just place the action of the figure.
I know what you mean about sheldon being fast and not showing the model he is using, or picture, so its hard to follow along. However use the poses from the it book rather than sheer tracing or copying, after you have traced it and get an idea of the muscle memory, try doing it from just looking at the pose, or google images. Remember you do not have to be fast when practicing right now. Gesture can take 5 mins, who cares. The point is getting used to it and developing that second nature feeling, so you can just do rather then thinking about each line. Then you speed it up to capture things in real life.
I hope this helps, again this is my understanding of the material and what helps me. Everyone will tell you how to do gestures different im sure, however just keep in mind the proportions so you can get the length of the lines close so when you come back and start laying in the forms, (shapes), you can pretty much follow the lines. So you can run the line of action first down the center, and draw the flowing lines to the side for the stretch and what note(motivator), then leave a little gap placing the legs etc.
If you remember, Sheldon says, eventually you start using all the lay ins at once. Read the first few pages in the It book, GCAT.
Check you PM as well






Hi Jason and guys!

I'm now at the end of the 2nd Tools video, where he talks about The Line of Action and Landmarks. I'm gonna spend some time in these 2 areas because they're like the "make-or-break" part of the basic understanding. :D

I watched the video 2 - 3 times and tried to draw along with the video (I slowed video speed to 0.5 times slower), but Sheldon is too fast! LOL
Had difficulty catching up, but I can understand the flow of some parts of it.

I've quite a bit of questions:

1) When drawing the gesture, do you start with the Line of Action or the Motivator? I assume it's Line of Action (that curvy line from the pit of the neck to the pubic arch)?

2) When doing gesture and you draw all those flowing lines, how do you estimate and keep track of which location to draw the next line and how long to draw that line? This is a big question I'm having.

For e.g: a model is posing, and you try to gesture-draw him. You start with the line of action, then you proceed to put the line to indicate the rhythm of the torso (Cal-State-Cool!). Where do you place this torso line and how long do you draw it? Then, after that is done, you go down to the upper-leg. Where do you start putting this line for the upper leg down? It could be anywhere somewhat higher or lower.

Every time when I try to draw gestures, I can see and feel the flow of rhythms on the model, but when I try to get it down on paper using flowing lines, I end up being lost of where the next line should be put, and how long it should go etc.

Because Vilppu/Sheldon's style of gesture uses incomplete, suggestive lines (beautiful!), it's like, there's nothing to refer to on the paper that tells you accurately where to put the next line and the length of that line (unlike a contour drawing). It's hard for the eyes to estimate correctly when there's nothing for you to base your estimation on.

3) Last question: In the last part of the Tools video, Sheldon talks about Landmarks : those dots and points on the various important sections of the human body. This Landmarks thing seems to be an anatomy thing and I'm surprised he puts it in the Tools video.
Exactly what are these Landmarks for and how do we apply it to drawing gestures? Maybe he has a reason for putting this Landmarks section together with the gesture stuff (Line of Action etc.).

Thanks a lot! :D
Xeon

[Xeon_OND]

Okay the landmarks are very important, the show form and help show the direction of the leg for instance, how its turned in space. Also they give it that sense of realism obviously. Showing the side plane of the rib cage is easy if you have the 2 landmarks from the bottom of the cage, you know exactly where it is turning to the side!
Also about the gesture drawings. When watching vilppu do it, he starts with the head, but also says it doesnt matter where you start. The important thing is to get the action, the total. Try to forget about where to put the lines, just try to think in 3d, about the forms, and how they are pinching or stretching, and try to imagine that your tracing the flow of water trickling down the figure. So its not to say you put the lines on the contours of the figure, but that doesnt mean you cannot use the outside contour. When sheldon uses the wire laying he really is just getting the action of the pose. It serves only that purpose. You can use the cal state cools, or your own style, just placing the forms. Then you go back on top and start focusing more on building the forms on top of that(construction). Then landmarks(anatomy). So start thinking of the figure in 3d the best you can, basic shapes, cylinders etc, then think about water flowing down and around the forms, mimic that with your pencil. Also think about proportions, I think that will help you in placing the legs and what not. The legs are roughly 3 1/2 to 4 heads tall, so depending on foreshortening, you can guesstimate how long to make the gesture lines. The rest of it is really going off the picture or model, you place them as you see them, however think of the proportions as you do it, and how one thing fits into another.
Remember the most important thing here is getting the total. It doesnt matter how you do it, what type of lines you use, Ive seen gestures that look like complete scribbles from a mad fellow in a mental ward, however they had the action of a pose. Sheer mess but they had the action, the end result after placing the forms and then rendering was beautiful.
So get the total, dont worry so much on where to place them, they dont have to connect. Just place the action of the figure.
I know what you mean about sheldon being fast and not showing the model he is using, or picture, so its hard to follow along. However use the poses from the it book rather than sheer tracing or copying, after you have traced it and get an idea of the muscle memory, try doing it from just looking at the pose, or google images. Remember you do not have to be fast when practicing right now. Gesture can take 5 mins, who cares. The point is getting used to it and developing that second nature feeling, so you can just do rather then thinking about each line. Then you speed it up to capture things in real life.
I hope this helps, again this is my understanding of the material and what helps me. Everyone will tell you how to do gestures different im sure, however just keep in mind the proportions so you can get the length of the lines close so when you come back and start laying in the forms, (shapes), you can pretty much follow the lines. So you can run the line of action first down the center, and draw the flowing lines to the side for the stretch and what note(motivator), then leave a little gap placing the legs etc.
If you remember, Sheldon says, eventually you start using all the lay ins at once. Read the first few pages in the It book, GCAT.
Check you PM as well
LOL, thanks a lot, Jason! Now, it's back to the drawing board for me! :D

[Sir Cam]

I skimmed through the thread and I agree with Jason's posts. I'm not sure what I could add that hasn't already been said, I just figured I'd stop in and say hi since I practice the constructive approach as well.

[Xeon_OND]

I skimmed through the thread and I agree with Jason's posts. I'm not sure what I could add that hasn't already been said, I just figured I'd stop in and say hi since I practice the constructive approach as well.
Hi Sir Cam! I'm so happy to see you drop by! I'll post my gesture drawings in a couple of days for you guys to comment on. I've seen yours and Dir3kt's SB last week and all your Sheldon-style gestures just makes me swoon so hard. :yayca:

[Xeon_OND]

Hi guys! :)

Below are some gestures I did this week. Pls give me your comments on anything you feel it's not right. I feel I'm like a blind-folded, lost man wandering around in a dark cave twice the size of Russia, trying to find his way out!

My gestures look very stiff, and doesn't have the "OH WOW, IT'S MOVING, IT'S DANCING RIGHT ON THE PAGE!!!!" effect, the kind that people like Sir Cam, Dir3kt, Sheldon and Vilppu have.

In the IT book, Sheldon says it's important to establish a set of procedures that works best for you. My "set of procedures" when doing gestures is (in order):

1) Draw line of action
2) Lightly indicate Pubic Arch right below where the line of action ends
3) Observe the 2 main Cal-State-Cools rhythm on the body and very lightly draw them around the line of action
4) Observe the Cal-State-Cools on the legs and draw them
5) Move up to upper torso area and indicate clavicle with a very slight curve line
6) Draw head (suggest, actually)
7) Observe the Cal-State-Cools on the arms and draw them

Currently, I take approx 5 - 6 mins to draw 1 gesture out, because I need time to see where the rhythms flow (can't just throw in Cal-State-Cools blindly, can I? :D).

Here:

http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/610.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/610.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/612.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/612.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/613.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/613.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/614.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/614.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/615.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/615.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/616.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/616.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/617.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/617.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/618.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/618.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/619.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/619.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/620.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/620.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/621.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/621.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/622.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/622.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/623.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/623.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/624.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/624.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/625.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/625.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/626.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/626.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/627.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/627.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/628.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/628.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/629.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/629.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/630.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/630.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/631.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/631.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/632.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/632.jpg)

Please give me your feedback, all! :D
Xeon

[Sir Cam]

That's very flattering but Direct and I aren't in their league, not even close. :p

I think your gestures look fine, just keep working on it. Gesture by itself isn't so tough, it is utilizing gesture as a part of your procedure to get a finished product that is difficult. I can only speak from my own limited experience but I think that eventually you will begin to combine the different tools of drawing until you find a procedure that works for you. Don't feel 100% locked into what Vilppu, Sheldon, or whoever else does. For instance, I personally indicate a little bit of the skeleton into my gestures (arms and fingers mainly) which is something I did not learn from them. Mentler seems to do something similar (if you don't know him, you should look for his sketchbook, he's amazing).

Gesture really is just a compositional tool for setting up poses, not for being finished products by themselves, hence why they are so loose. Now, by loose, I do not mean rushed or sloppy. If anything, gesture requires more control and focus than any other step in the process because it is the foundation and if your foundation is flawed, the whole drawing will fall apart down the road. Not rushed, just... loose. Think fluidity.

Think of a finished figure drawing as the end product, gesture is just the first step in a procedure to get to that finish. Just like painting has a methodology, so too does drawing. In the end, everything really is the same and practicing one will always help the other.

[Xeon_OND]

That's very flattering but Direct and I aren't in their league, not even close. :p
LOL, I'm not the first person who said your gestures look just like Vilppu's. In your SB, someone else said the same, and indeed, they look very similar! Maybe an expert can see the discrepancies and errors of your gestures vs. Vilppu's, but I can't, no matter how hard I try. ;)

Mentler seems to do something similar (if you don't know him, you should look for his sketchbook, he's amazing).
Oh yeah, I've heard of Mentler many times around here. The Bone Doctor! ;) He's definitely up there with Vilppu, though I'm not too sure what kind of drawing style he uses.

Now, by loose, I do not mean rushed or sloppy. If anything, gesture requires more control and focus than any other step in the process because it is the foundation and if your foundation is flawed, the whole drawing will fall apart down the road. Not rushed, just... loose. Think fluidity.
I understand what you mean by fluidity. It's like "water running down a mountain", as what Sheldon says in the IT book. ;) "Flow" is probably the keyword here.

I'll refer back to the videos, the books, then draw and compare against the vids and books, and I'll also use your SB's gestures as an additional knowledge source.

Eventually, I will go out there and do gestures of real humans, because I realized that although I've been doing gestures based on photos, the experience is VERY different when I try to draw a real human. In fact, I had to spend a lot of time trying to understand the figure in 3D and drawing it in 2D. Confusing as fuck. :D

Good day!
Xeon

[George Abraham]

What was confusing for me was the multiple ideas of rythms being mashed together.

Re-iterating it now it seems to be issues between stationary force and force in motion or beuty.

I lost the plot with gesture a couple of times and regained it again when the idea of gravity and desighning with the center of gravity came back into play. Our bodies zigzag so there's constant forces recreating balance and resisting gravity.

What made my ticker go with the other idea is some dude's anime style drawing, I remembered the incredible hair the girl had. Upon closer examination I found that hair was the perfect illustration of what I missed. Motion, the leading motion, hair resisting motion thus having a trailing motion and a follow through, and even a kick back in the tips, kinda like when punching a big punching bag the bottom and top tilt out.

So I think the issues for me was that I didn't clearly differentaite between the "forces" for example, the rythms of balance, movement, and tension in clothing all in one piece.

Vilppu used clothing as a metaphor for his particular notation style of gesture. Still have to get my head around that one entirely but I guess it has to do with when more than one force meets that's not exactly parralel., the line has to break into a series of ripples indicating the extra force from the sides or something. So vilppu mostly draw balance and volume with the aid of some sort of surface clothing ripple effect.

[rusalka]

hello,

I studied with Villppu for several years and took some classes with Mattesi and Gnass before so I might be able to help with any questions. It's been a long time since then so I've probably forgotten a lot of it, but I'm always up for some construction study. I've had the Hampton book on my saved for later amazon.com list for a while.. got too many books already though. There was another constructive book I saw at the bookstore once that was even more similar to Vilppu's method than Hampton, but I don't recall the name of it. It was much clearer than Vilppu's books though. Also picked up Sheldon's videos a while back but never got around to watching most of them.. was a little disappointed that he never showed what he was drawing from.

All the comments so far have been excellent so I don't really have anything to add.
I do know what Vilppu's comments would be for the gestures you posted though:
1. "Draw much more lightly"
and
2. "Don't draw the contours"

Lightly because you will get more of the rhythmic feel of the gesture, be less committed to the lines you are sketching in, and the entire gesture will flow a bit better from one part of the body to the next. Took me a while to figure this one out on my own!

And Vilppu will consider the cal-state-cool () lines you have down for example the legs, to be more contour than gesture. Try to keep your () lines a bit looser and closer together and stay within the form instead of following the outline/outside of them.

You might also watch the gravity and weight of your gestures.. they feel a bit floaty and not ground enough. Make sure you get the contact points accurately. And for the feet, locate their contact points in 3d space accurately and your figures will feel more solid.

Other than that your gestures are good and look pretty much how all gestures look for students new to the Vilppu method.

good luck!

[Xeon_OND]

hello,

I studied with Villppu for several years and took some classes with Mattesi and Gnass before so I might be able to help with any questions. It's been a long time since then so I've probably forgotten a lot of it, but I'm always up for some construction study. I've had the Hampton book on my saved for later amazon.com list for a while.. got too many books already though. There was another constructive book I saw at the bookstore once that was even more similar to Vilppu's method than Hampton, but I don't recall the name of it. It was much clearer than Vilppu's books though. Also picked up Sheldon's videos a while back but never got around to watching most of them.. was a little disappointed that he never showed what he was drawing from.

All the comments so far have been excellent so I don't really have anything to add.
I do know what Vilppu's comments would be for the gestures you posted though:
1. "Draw much more lightly"
and
2. "Don't draw the contours"

Lightly because you will get more of the rhythmic feel of the gesture, be less committed to the lines you are sketching in, and the entire gesture will flow a bit better from one part of the body to the next. Took me a while to figure this one out on my own!

And Vilppu will consider the cal-state-cool () lines you have down for example the legs, to be more contour than gesture. Try to keep your () lines a bit looser and closer together and stay within the form instead of following the outline/outside of them.

You might also watch the gravity and weight of your gestures.. they feel a bit floaty and not ground enough. Make sure you get the contact points accurately. And for the feet, locate their contact points in 3d space accurately and your figures will feel more solid.

Other than that your gestures are good and look pretty much how all gestures look for students new to the Vilppu method.

good luck!
Hi Rusalka! I'm so happy to see your post; they have given me so much insight, especially the "draw lightly" part! That's very useful! :D

Btw, I frequently source for books and never knew there's actually a book more similar to the Vilppu's method than Hampton's book. Even though some of Hampton's re-interpretation is somewhat different from Vilppu, I thought Hampton's teachings is the cloest to Vilppu's method (since they're teacher-student), the other one being Sheldon.

For Sheldon, yeah, he's a good teacher but I agree with you: he never show what he's drawing from and 100% of the time, you just see a hand and a paper on screen and it's hard to relate or reference to the model. In fact, Vilppu's own videos are much more clearer than Sheldon's.
(if anyone is interested, I can sell all my 19 Sheldon DVDs at low-cost) :D

I'm now going through Chapter 3 of the Vilppu manual (box forms) and man, it's so hard. Trying to locate the landmarks on the model and constructing the boxes like Vilppu did is super-challenging. I'll post some of my box-forms drawings here this weekend. To add to the complexity, Vilppu's boxes actually bends and twists! :yayca:

Talk to you soon,
Xeon

[rusalka]

I think there may be another book, but it may very well be Hampton's book I was looking at. I'll have to see if I can find it at the bookstore, since amazon doesn't show too much of what's inside.

There was another book I came across before by an artist who was obviously a student of Vilppu's. He uses virtually the exact same sketchbook setup, and employs many of the same short hands and shortcuts in his quick sketch figure drawings.

It might give you some more insight into Vilppu's gesture and quick sketch techniques. I haven't seen more than what amazon shows so I don't know if the book is any good:
http://www.amazon.com/Sketching-People-Life-Drawing-Basics/dp/1600611508/

If you're curious I might be able to dig up some of my old drawings from class when I first started just to give you an idea of what we had to do for each stage/chapter of the lessons.

[Whirly]

If you doing the Vilppu box forms and you have your Hampton handy check page 34.

My favorite figure drawing exercise! Helps with perspective, proportion and gesture :) Something to do before the twisty bendy stuff. Good luck :)

[Xeon_OND]

It might give you some more insight into Vilppu's gesture and quick sketch techniques. I haven't seen more than what amazon shows so I don't know if the book is any good:
http://www.amazon.com/Sketching-People-Life-Drawing-Basics/dp/1600611508/
Hi Rusalka! Sorry for my late reply; been pretty busy of late.
Now that I've seen that book, I'm gonna get it asap. Any book by Vilppu or Vilppu's student will end up on my bookshelf fo' sho'.

If you're curious I might be able to dig up some of my old drawings from class when I first started just to give you an idea of what we had to do for each stage/chapter of the lessons.
Yes, please! I would really like to know how you guys started so that I can avoid having unrealistic expectations, because sometimes I keep comparing my drawings to Vilppu or Hampton and I end up feeling down. :yayca:

Btw, if you haven't checked out my SB, here's some gestures I did recently and I think they look quite different from the ones I posted earlier in this thread:

http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/872.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/872.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/877.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/877.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/878.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/878.jpg)
Above poses based on PoseManiacs 90-second drawing.

One comment which I get a lot recently is that my gestures, although looks "flowy", they don't look convincing. Is this due to lack of anatomical knowledge? I know the landmarks of the body but when doing gesture drawings with these loose flowy lines, I have no clue exactly how to gauge accurately on my paper where the landmarks should start or end (unlike the case of using straight lines), so I just go with my gut feeling for the proportions.

It's like, to get the landmarks down accurately with these flowy lines, I've to use dots to mark the landmarks on the paper and then draw the flowy lines, but that seems to be really stiffening the gesture and I doubt this is what Vilppu will encourage. :)

Any insight would be helpful!

If you doing the Vilppu box forms and you have your Hampton handy check page 34.
My favorite figure drawing exercise! Helps with perspective, proportion and gesture :) Something to do before the twisty bendy stuff. Good luck :)
Yo Whirly! Yeah, I've seen page 34. :D
Btw, for the box for the rib cage (frontal), Hampton uses the ends of the clavicle for the top ends of the box, and the bottom of the 10th rib for the bottom ends of the box, right?

What about the back? I assume he uses the end of the acromion process for the top of the box and the ends of the posterior 10th ribs for the bottom?

For the box for the pelvis (back), I assume he uses the 2 posterior superior illiac spines for the top end of the pelvis box, and the area just above the bottom of the gluteus maximus for the bottom end of the box?

Would appreciate if you could share your thoughts on this! :D:yayca:

[Hayden Zammit]

Whoa, cool to find a thread related to Vilppu.

I'm a 3D artist new to 3D art. Should've learnt 2D first but oh well.

I've got a heap of Vilppu DVDs that I'm learning the basics from. They're awesome. I still suck majorly, but I'm feeling more confident and starting to grasp it all.

[MightyApplejacks]

I never asked myself as many questions about gesture, at least not with clarity.. (and they even started to bore me when I kept getting them wrong). Good to see someone is doing just that! They are important 'guides' for the drawing process after all- loose and expressive but actually practical as well to setting up a drawing, or learning curves etc.

Keep mastering them and mix it up with a good, thorough muscle study often. Your gestures will start to take form that way. I guess it helps to let gestures feed off a lot of anatomical knowledge, or at least a lot of basic skeletal mastery, so you can 'instinctively' do convincing gestures with very few lines (and 'beef them up' with muscle structure straight afterwards, or at least a vague idea just to play with it).

(I have a question- where do you get Vilppu books on gesture drawing and building figures? I stumbled on his site once but the prices... were WAY out of my league Dx I can't seem to find them, even one, at a price I can afford elsewhere..)

[Xeon_OND]

Yo Hayden and Ajax! Glad to see folks interested in the Vilppu Style (it's a shame his methods doesn't have a cool name to it, like "The Way of The Vilppu" or "Gesture of Heaven" etc.).

@ Hayden: Your latest gesture is a big jump from the previous ones! :D This digital painting (http://conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2929147&postcount=2) also looks hot! :D:yayca:

@ Ajax: Check your PM. ;)

Anyway, I just discovered one of Vilppu's students, Jeff Mellem, actually has a website as well. Here: http://jeffmellem.com/
In the Gestures section, that's where all the stuff are. The only thing, though, is that judging from the gestures, he's probably not as good as Hampton or Sheldon is terms of mastery of the Vilppu method, but I'm getting his book nevertheless. :D Hampton's own site here: www.figuredrawing.info

Good day,
Xeon

[Ramon Hurtado]

Hi everyone,

I've been studying with Glenn in LA for about 4 years now. If you still have questions about his approach, let me know, I might be able to help.

My friend Lamb and I just released an ebook of drawings, which we're offering for a $10 donation to our online campaign. Almost all of the drawings in the book we're done in class, under Glenn's supervision.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e155/panchosimpson/blogposts/opt/book.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e155/panchosimpson/blogposts/opt/sample1.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e155/panchosimpson/blogposts/opt/sample2.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e155/panchosimpson/blogposts/opt/sample3.jpg

You can also check out the links in my sig, my CA.org thread has the very first drawings I did in Glenn's class when I was 18, all the way up to now, pretty much week by week.

Also, as a technical note, what Glenn does is not a style, it's an approach. A style is an individual artist's response to nature (a highly personal manifestation of an individual's personality through art) or alternatively a set of rules that defines a visual world (i.e. film style). An approach is a methodology used to solve a problem, a set of steps that lead to a consistent result.

Best,

-Ramon

[Xeon_OND]

Hi everyone,

I've been studying with Glenn in LA for about 4 years now. If you still have questions about his approach, let me know, I might be able to help.

My friend Lamb and I just released an ebook of drawings, which we're offering for a $10 donation to our online campaign. Almost all of the drawings in the book we're done in class, under Glenn's supervision.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e155/panchosimpson/blogposts/opt/book.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e155/panchosimpson/blogposts/opt/sample1.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e155/panchosimpson/blogposts/opt/sample2.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e155/panchosimpson/blogposts/opt/sample3.jpg

You can also check out the links in my sig, my CA.org thread has the very first drawings I did in Glenn's class when I was 18, all the way up to now, pretty much week by week.

Also, as a technical note, what Glenn does is not a style, it's an approach. A style is an individual artist's response to nature (a highly personal manifestation of an individual's personality through art) or alternatively a set of rules that defines a visual world (i.e. film style). An approach is a methodology used to solve a problem, a set of steps that lead to a consistent result.
Best,
-Ramon

I was walking along a grim path full of darkness when all of a sudden, behold! An intense ray of light shone from the skies down onto the entire path, lighting up the way. It is St Ramon the ArchAngel, sent by Vilppu the Almighty Father to save us all! LOL

Seriously now. :D I checked out CA thread, your blog and video and I'm so touched. Reminds me of my own situation only that I'm not as lucky as you guys. I'll be buying your ebook as a token and vote of confidence, and hope you guys will succeed where others have failed. Anything that has to do with Vilppu, even his students' works or his cat's shit, is a total gem to me. :D
I'll buy it on 1st May, no money now as I've used up most of it to buy skeleton and skull models.

Btw, if you don't mind, I've 3 big burning questions to ask you as it's really hard for me to find people who have been taught by Vilppu directly, especially for 4 years! You & Lamb will be the next Rubens and Michelangelo at this rate.

I also read that you study at the Art Center, so I assume that to be that same legendary Art Center in Pasadena where Vilppu used to study at himself when he was a noob:


1) Do you guys over there use Loomis' head construction method to draw heads?

2) Does Vilppu have his own method to drawing the head from any angle? In his videos, he talks mostly about anatomy of the head and not so much on construction from various angles. His construction using the oval is rather vague and brief and it seems to be an illustration for explanation rather than an actual method.

3) This question is with regards to how Vilppu structure his course in his classroom. When you first started out as a total noob under Vilppu, does he just get you guys to draw nothing but gestures for some time?

Then, when you guys got better, he gets you to draw nothing but geometric forms? (look at the model and do a full construction drawing using cylinders / boxes BUT WITHOUT any anatomy on top of those forms)

And when you guys get better with that, then he teaches you to overlay the anatomy on top?

I wonder if this is how Vilppu actually teach, and also if this is how they teach at Art Center, because it's kinda wild if you're a beginner and you go there for the first few classes and they already wants you to draw anatomical shapes on top of the construction.

There's this guy called Michael Hampton (author of "Figure drawing : Design & Invention) who I believed also graduated from Art Center due to his drawing style. I'm following his book but since a book is totally different from a real teacher, I have so far been interpreting the teaching / learning approach in my own terms which I fear may be wrong.

Do let me know your answers! :)

Good day!
Xeon

[Yinari]

Hello
I recently started reading Vilppu's book, and I really like the way he is teaching. The way his drawings seem to move on the page is really amazing.
The problem I'm having right now is that my gestures are really stiff. And I can't figure out how to make them look like they are moving more. Vilppu makes it seem like it is really easy but I'm already stuck at this one lol.

If any of you have any tips on this part that would be great, because right now I'm really feeling like I'm stuck.

[Xeon_OND]

The problem I'm having right now is that my gestures are really stiff. And I can't figure out how to make them look like they are moving more. Vilppu makes it seem like it is really easy but I'm already stuck at this one lol.

If any of you have any tips on this part that would be great, because right now I'm really feeling like I'm stuck.
First of all, I'm no expert and am struggling with drawing myself (drawing is harder than climbing 50 Mount Everests at one go).
There are plenty of folks out there who're way better than me, and students who have direct instruction under Vilppu can probably guide you way better than me, but until those blessed folks reply, I guess I can share what I know with you.

I love Vilppu and anyone who draws using his approach is like a soulmate to me. Vilppuians (= people who draw using Vilppu's approach) are really rare around here where I stay.

Anyway, here goes:

I looked at all the gestures in your SB and the reason why they look stiff and does not look like they're moving at all is because you're drawing outlines of the model. There is no flow in your gestures.

Look at the following images from Vilppu's book:
http://www.awn.com/mag/issue3.3/3.3images/vilppudrawing02.gif
http://www.awn.com/mag/issue3.3/3.3images/vilppudrawing03.gif
http://www.awn.com/mag/issue3.3/3.3images/vilppudrawing04.gif

Notice there's a similarity in all the gestures above. The lines are leading one into the other, like water flowing down a mountain. Imagine yourself nude in the bathroom. Turn on the shower and let the water flow and drip down your body.

The water will hit the top of your head, then it will trickle gracefully down your neck, then it will slide down your torso, and snakes down your midsection into the hips area, then it will meander down around and across your thigh down into the lower leg before it reaches the feet and flows away into the gully hole.

When the water flows down your body, does it suddenly shoots back up? No, because that would be weird and awkward!

It's the same with Vilppu's approach: The lines of the gesture must flow.

None of the lines that Vilppu draws in his gestures are lines that exists on the model (not contour lines!)

In the Vilppu approach to gesture, you should be using only asymmetrical lines (your Vilppu book talks about it in the 1st chapter). These lines should lead from one line down into the other.

Remember that these lines are not contour lines; these are lines that describe attitude. Say, if the butt of the model is pushed out, you would draw a line that describes the push of the butt, not the outside curvature / contour of the butt. That line you drew would look like it resembles the contour of the butt, but it's not.
It's abstract, and it is.

So, if a model is standing upright with her butt thrusted back and her upper torso leaning forward, you should be drawing it in this manner:

1) Start with tilt of head.
2) Feel the attitude of the neck. Draw that line. This is not always the curvature of the neck. It's how you feel about what the neck is doing (lazy, forceful, harsh, stiff etc.) Draw the line.
3) Feel the pushing forward of the upper torso. Draw lines to describe that. Not contour, not outlines.
Repeat this for the rest of the body down into the lower leg.

In summary:

1) In order to prevent yourself from drawing outlines, don't look at the edges or contours of the model when you're doing gesture drawing. Look at the entire model as a whole.

2) Use asymmetrical curves, one curve leading down into the next. Anytime you start using straight lines, stop and start over.

3) The whole flow of the gesture should be from top to down, or left to right, or right to left, or down to up, depending on the pose. If your flow starts going from top to down then sideways then down and up again and sideways, or if your flow has no direction at all, you're doing it wrong.

4) Start with standing dramatic action poses first. Avoid foreshortened / reclining / crumpled poses for now.

5) Once you're used to all this, you should be able to feel the rhythm of the model right in your hand that's holding the pencil before you put down a single line.

6) Take photos and do the gestures over the photos.

7) If you can afford it, I highly recommend getting Vilppu's Gesture video. Seeing him explain it in person with photo examples really helped me a lot after I watched it for over 15+ times. :D

8) Forget about drawing ellipses and curves around your gesture until you're comfortable with the flow and rhythm. The ellipses and curves around the gesture is for describing form. If your gesture does not have flow or rhythm, there's no point in wasting time to put those ellipses around.

9) Vilppu's more completed gestures (http://vilppustudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/9-Mar-2009-002.jpg) seem to really move around on the page. Those gestures consists not only of flow and rhythm, but also form and anatomy all at once in the gesture. That's why they look so alive. Forget those gestures for now as it will be overwhelming at this stage. Just focus on feeling the action and flow first. Vilppu has been drawing since he was 5 yrs old till now. Can't compare ourselves to him.

If you're still stuck, let me know and maybe I could pose some examples of how I do it and maybe you might have a better idea. Trust me, Vilppu's way of gesture drawing will really pay off and worth the pain to learn.

Vilppu rulez. Good luck,
Xeon

[Ramon Hurtado]

Hi Xeon, thanks for the vote of confidence, I'm not sure that I'm an archangel, but I'll do what I can to live up to your lofty expectations haha.
I was indeed referring to Art Center in Pasadena, where Glenn studied a long time ago. He studied under Audubon Tyler, Lorser Feitelson, Harry Carmean and John LaGatta, among others. I don’t study there though. I was trying to transfer there, but I decided not to go after I had been accepted. Lamb and I do crash the open workshops there. My buddy Kirk teaches there, he's great, check him out
robutic.blogspot.com
1. I studied the Loomis book before, but I haven't gotten a chance to look through it lately. His work is great, but as I remember it, he uses a more abbreviated version in his book. In his head drawing class, Glenn breaks down the planes in a basic manner, then each week he'll delve into a particular area with greater specificity, showing how bone, muscle and cartilage combine to create what we see in nature.
Here are some planar studies I did from the live model in his head class.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_ZO_4VGSF3ws/TYp1XMKUmjI/AAAAAAAABkE/zDKrzwf849w/s800/IMG_6260-copy.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_ZO_4VGSF3ws/TYp1W7Qz4uI/AAAAAAAABkA/XZn9Lwkh7aQ/s800/IMG_6260.jpg
I've found it useful to study and break down the planes directly from the skull
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_ZO_4VGSF3ws/TYp1V5f_osI/AAAAAAAABj0/LlW4rxxMf4Q/s800/3skullstudies.jpg
2. I guess Glenn has his own set of planes (see above), which is based on his observations from life, from the skeleton and his synthesis of various other sources. The planes are derived from the anatomy, so he's just taking it to a more basic level.
3. Glenn has different classes, the first one I took, basic figure drawing, is structured as a 12 week course, each week following a chapter in his manual. Class lasts 5 hours, the first few minutes are for warm up drawings, then a one hour lecture, then actual drawing and individual critiques (with a lunch break in between). Glenn usually gets around to everyone and either draws on top of their drawing, or beside it, or on his own paper. When I first met him, he drew on his computer and projected the image, so you could look up from your drawing and see him working simultaneously.
Anyway, week 1 is strictly for gestures, week 2 is for spherical and cylindrical construction, week 3 we get into boxes, etc. He doesn't necessarily expect us to know a whole lot of anatomy at this point, but he recommends Peck's Atlas of Human Anatomy. I would start learning anatomy concurrently with construction studies. Learning the actual mechanics of the body will help you understand why construction diagrams are the way they are, since they're abstractions of reality.

I hope this helps, if you know anyone else who might be interested in our book please share the link!

Best,

-Ramon

[Xeon_OND]

Thanks a lot, Ramon! I will make sure to try my best to promote your book and also advertise it in my blog 2 weeks from now (since my next blog update is 2 May 2011). Not a lot of hits on my site, but....better than nothing! :)

Good luck!
Xeon

[Yinari]

First of all, I'm no expert and am struggling with drawing myself (drawing is harder than climbing 50 Mount Everests at one go).
There are plenty of folks out there who're way better than me, and students who have direct instruction under Vilppu can probably guide you way better than me, but until those blessed folks reply, I guess I can share what I know with you.

I love Vilppu and anyone who draws using his approach is like a soulmate to me. Vilppuians (= people who draw using Vilppu's approach) are really rare around here where I stay.

Anyway, here goes:

I looked at all the gestures in your SB and the reason why they look stiff and does not look like they're moving at all is because you're drawing outlines of the model. There is no flow in your gestures.

Look at the following images from Vilppu's book:
http://www.awn.com/mag/issue3.3/3.3images/vilppudrawing02.gif
http://www.awn.com/mag/issue3.3/3.3images/vilppudrawing03.gif
http://www.awn.com/mag/issue3.3/3.3images/vilppudrawing04.gif

Notice there's a similarity in all the gestures above. The lines are leading one into the other, like water flowing down a mountain. Imagine yourself nude in the bathroom. Turn on the shower and let the water flow and drip down your body.

The water will hit the top of your head, then it will trickle gracefully down your neck, then it will slide down your torso, and snakes down your midsection into the hips area, then it will meander down around and across your thigh down into the lower leg before it reaches the feet and flows away into the gully hole.

When the water flows down your body, does it suddenly shoots back up? No, because that would be weird and awkward!

It's the same with Vilppu's approach: The lines of the gesture must flow.

None of the lines that Vilppu draws in his gestures are lines that exists on the model (not contour lines!)

In the Vilppu approach to gesture, you should be using only asymmetrical lines (your Vilppu book talks about it in the 1st chapter). These lines should lead from one line down into the other.

Remember that these lines are not contour lines; these are lines that describe attitude. Say, if the butt of the model is pushed out, you would draw a line that describes the push of the butt, not the outside curvature / contour of the butt. That line you drew would look like it resembles the contour of the butt, but it's not.
It's abstract, and it is.

So, if a model is standing upright with her butt thrusted back and her upper torso leaning forward, you should be drawing it in this manner:

1) Start with tilt of head.
2) Feel the attitude of the neck. Draw that line. This is not always the curvature of the neck. It's how you feel about what the neck is doing (lazy, forceful, harsh, stiff etc.) Draw the line.
3) Feel the pushing forward of the upper torso. Draw lines to describe that. Not contour, not outlines.
Repeat this for the rest of the body down into the lower leg.

In summary:

1) In order to prevent yourself from drawing outlines, don't look at the edges or contours of the model when you're doing gesture drawing. Look at the entire model as a whole.

2) Use asymmetrical curves, one curve leading down into the next. Anytime you start using straight lines, stop and start over.

3) The whole flow of the gesture should be from top to down, or left to right, or right to left, or down to up, depending on the pose. If your flow starts going from top to down then sideways then down and up again and sideways, or if your flow has no direction at all, you're doing it wrong.

4) Start with standing dramatic action poses first. Avoid foreshortened / reclining / crumpled poses for now.

5) Once you're used to all this, you should be able to feel the rhythm of the model right in your hand that's holding the pencil before you put down a single line.

6) Take photos and do the gestures over the photos.

7) If you can afford it, I highly recommend getting Vilppu's Gesture video. Seeing him explain it in person with photo examples really helped me a lot after I watched it for over 15+ times. :D

8) Forget about drawing ellipses and curves around your gesture until you're comfortable with the flow and rhythm. The ellipses and curves around the gesture is for describing form. If your gesture does not have flow or rhythm, there's no point in wasting time to put those ellipses around.

9) Vilppu's more completed gestures (http://vilppustudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/9-Mar-2009-002.jpg) seem to really move around on the page. Those gestures consists not only of flow and rhythm, but also form and anatomy all at once in the gesture. That's why they look so alive. Forget those gestures for now as it will be overwhelming at this stage. Just focus on feeling the action and flow first. Vilppu has been drawing since he was 5 yrs old till now. Can't compare ourselves to him.

If you're still stuck, let me know and maybe I could pose some examples of how I do it and maybe you might have a better idea. Trust me, Vilppu's way of gesture drawing will really pay off and worth the pain to learn.

Vilppu rulez. Good luck,
Xeon

Thank you for taking your time to help me out here. I will try to put your tips to good use as soon as I can =)

[Yinari]

I uploaded some new gestures to my SB. I would appreciate it if someone would take a look at them, to see if they look any better.
Also right now I find it really hard to make a gesture of a model that is just standing straight up... Whenever I try it they just looks even more stiff than the rest of the gestures

[Xeon_OND]

I uploaded some new gestures to my SB. I would appreciate it if someone would take a look at them, to see if they look any better.
Also right now I find it really hard to make a gesture of a model that is just standing straight up... Whenever I try it they just looks even more stiff than the rest of the gestures
No one has replied yet, so....

I look at your latest gestures and they're a bit better than the previous ones in that you appear to show some signs of drawing lines that lead from one to the other.

But IMHO, you're still drawing mostly outlines, just that your outlines are now made up of lines that lead from one to another, instead of the traditional type of contour line in your previous gestures. LOL :D

I'm still trying to understand Vilppu myself, but below are some examples I did to show how I usually do this gesture thing, so that maybe you can have a better idea. If you think I'm wrong, it's alright, because I'm not a Vilppu-certified training instructor. LOL :D

Here goes. Say, we have a pose like the below:

http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam1.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam1.jpg)

The rhythms of this pose would be flowing down the body like this (starts at neck and flows all the way down to feet):
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam12.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam12.jpg)

So, when you start this gesture, you would go about it like below:

Vilppu says many people say not to start with the head in gesture drawings, but he starts with the head, and so I did it too. It's more logical for me.
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam2.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam2.jpg)

The flow starts at the neck and starts flowing down the body, like water down a mountain slope, as Sheldon puts it.
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam3.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam3.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam4.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam4.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam5.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam5.jpg)

Now that I've drawn the flow from top to bottom, I go back up and do the arms. The rhythms in her arms are flowing up and away! That's how I think of it. The arms are added last. That's how I watch Vilppu does it.
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam6.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam6.jpg)

For your case, you can just stop at the below stage.
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam7.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam7.jpg)

In future when you're more comfortable, you can throw in the ellipses, but forget about all these for now.
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam8.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam8.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam9.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam9.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam10.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam10.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam11.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/Sam11.jpg)

Now, we have another pose.
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamA.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamA.jpg)

The rhythms would be flowing down the body like this:
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamJ.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamJ.jpg)

And as usual, I would start with the head:
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamB.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamB.jpg)

The rhythms start flowing from her neck, all the way down to the torso and the hips area.
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamC.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamC.jpg)

Down down down the mountain slope, meandering across the legs and down into the feet!
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamD.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamD.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamG.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamG.jpg)

For your case, just stop at below stage. I've added the arm on the other side. I didn't draw the arm nearer to us cos' it will make the gesture messy in this example.
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamH.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamH.jpg)

When you're more comfortable, throw in ellipses.
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamI.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamI.jpg)

And one more:
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamLast1.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamLast1.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamLast2.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamLast2.jpg)
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamLast4.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamLast4.jpg)

I suggest that for now, just draw the major big rhythms in the pose first when you practice gestures. Like below, without the ellipses or anything. You can make it even simpler if you want to, and reduce the amount of lines further (4 lines even! :D).
http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamLast3.jpg (http://www.oneniceday.com/Artwork/SamLast3.jpg)

You should also get unwanted newspapers / magazines and use a pen and draw the big rhythms over the photos. Start with the neck, then draw the flow as it goes through the body all the way down to the feet (like what I've did in the overlays above with the red and purple arrows). Do plenty of these with whatever time you have for a few months and I'm sure you'll get a lot better! :D

Good luck!
Xeon

[Yinari]

Yea the contour thing is rly a problem of mine lol. I'm having a hard time separeting that from the flow.
Thanks a lot for doing those step-by-step gestures (and so many of them! =D), I think they will really help me out. You gave me a clearer view of how to draw the flow.
You really are amazing =) I think this will not only help me, but also other people who are struggeling with gestures.
Now, let's try to find me some newspaper... I'm sure my parents have some around here lol.

[Wassim]

Thank you Xeon_OND for opening this thread , it is really helpful for me
because i have started with Villpu method last week
anyway , about your gesture studies are really awesome and figures too:)
keep the good work man ;)