not quitting yet

[emilpaun]

This one :chug: goes to MindCandyMan: Thanks for the inspiration!

I deleted most of the text here because
nobody has the time to read this crap :)

Quick link to the last post (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?goto=lastpost&t=18977)

image1 (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/sunset_sea.jpg)
image2 (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/mountain.jpg)
image3 (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/shadows.jpg)
image4 (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/doi.jpg)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/frog01.jpg

[emilpaun]

image1 (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/trei01.jpg)
image2 (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/trei04.jpg)

[emilpaun]

Creepymonsterblindedbylight (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/prayer.jpg)

[emilpaun]

creepygreygirlwithbloodonherface (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/creep.jpg)
creepygreygirlwithoutbloodonherface (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/creep01.jpg)

[herbesahne]

My favorite are the frog and the guy in light . The blue faces look interesting but too dark ..keep up

[emilpaun]

herbesahne - thanks for commenting, it's reassuring to see that people are actually watching this :). well the blue guy, i was not particularly happy about the proportions of his face, so i thought darkening his features would make him more "digerable" :)

Well, i promised happier stuff, but couldn't come up with any so, i'm still working (and i also forgot the floppy disk with the stuff from the weekend :) at home). will update tomorrow.

BTW does anywone know what colour profile i should choose in photoshop, so that the jpegs look like the psds. i can't seem to match the two...

[Bradart]

the carrie painting is very hauting. I like it. ganz toll, freund.

[emilpaun]

Icey - thanks for commenting, man, yeah I too liked how the frog turned out, hopefully I'll be doing more like that soon enough :)

Bradart - thanks, it's nice to see that my paintings do have an effect upon people :)

merlin (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/merlin01.jpg)

crashedalienshipwithbystanders (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/dune.jpg)

[emilpaun]

creepsonthewalls (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/cave.jpg)
creepystudent (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/add.jpg)

[emilpaun]

I worked double the time on this one, to make up for skipping yesterday, and after completely erasing it several times, I could only come with this crappy painting... crappy perspective, crappy lighting, all crap

creeponthewalls (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/gargoyle.jpg)

[emilpaun]

I've been kind of busy lately designing logos for mobile phones, gosh I hate 256 color gifs :)

I only had time to add some more details to this one..

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/dune02.jpg

[emilpaun]

still struggling to understand lighting...

creepwithsword (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/i_reign.jpg)

[emilpaun]

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/i_reign01.jpg

creepstaringatthesun (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/sunlover.jpg)

creepyalienguy (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/martian.jpg)

[emilpaun]

humanfacesaretough (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/failure.jpg)
seaofsomesorts (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/sea.jpg)

[MindCandyMan]

Definitely don't quit KR...this is the same struggle everyone has at the beginning. It's very very difficult to jump straight into color work/painting from the beginning. You are putting too much of a strain on yourself and you are expecting too much. Not sure if you have a scanner or not but I would suggest just getting some paper and getting some pencils, and an eraser and starting from there. Color work is the last thing to come...you just need to worry about value at this point. Check out this thread...this is a great thread for anyone wanting to start out and learn the basics of how to draw:

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12104


Check that out and see if it helps. My personal opinion is that everyone should start out with a bargue drawing...it's so helpful and teaches you want is good pencil drawing and what is good value control...etc... Hope that helps...I'll be watching...keep posting even if no one responds...I went weeks at a time with no one responding...if you show your work ethic people will notice.

Cheers back to you ;) :chug:

[emilpaun]

Thanks MCM, it's really good to have you here... Yeah you're right, I should draw more in pencil, and I do use pencil... :) The fact is that I've been doodling and drawing and even painting ever since I can remember, but I never obtained the results I was looking for :( This is the primary reason for this thread afterall, improving...

Great thread, the bargue drawing one. Lots of info as well :) I'll try to do that real soon, thanks again MCM!

some blah blah text went away from here

I seem to have problems with proportions. I KNOW all that stuff about 5 eyes, and 3 thirds, and slicing off the sphere that stands for the head, and... well you probably know what I am talking about... what I DON'T KNOW, is how to apply those measurements when the head is turned... so any help with that is more than welcome


crappyface (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/face2.jpg)

oldercrap1 (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/sumi-e.jpg)
oldercrap2 (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/mountains.jpg)
oldercrap3 (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/seagull.jpg)
oldercrap4 (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/golden_autumn.jpg)

[emilpaun]

Forgot about this one

details


http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/i_reign02SD.jpg

EDIT: I scaled down this guy to make him more... visible :)

[MindCandyMan]

Can't wait to see the pencil portraits...keep it up ;)

[emilpaun]

MCM thanks for commenting, yeah I too am anxious to post my pencil sketches becaus I feel that if I want to improve it's there where I should start :) I promise I get a scanner real soon

Icey, well you know how it is, those 80 bucks I need to buy a decent scanner seem to be too much :) Hope I manage to save them this month :)

stupidattempt (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/eyes.jpg)
stupidattempt (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/eye.jpg)
stupidattempt (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/lips.jpg)
stupidattempt (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/sin01.jpg)
stupidattempt (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/new-sin.jpg)
stupidattempt (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/funnyguy.jpg)
stupidattempt (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/humvee.jpg)

[emilpaun]

Ok, I worked some more on the girl-with-the-head-turned one... this is how it came up so far...

crap (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/new-sin01.jpg)

[emilpaun]

Well, I haven't been posting lately beacause I kinda took a break from digital painting and I still couldn't manage to save enough money to buy a decent scanner. Maybe this month, right?

However, yesterday I got Painter, man is that a fantastic tool!!!!

So, updates. This one is still in photoshop, pretty messed up one, too, but I intend not to give up on rendering it, no matter what

crap (http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/new-sin-tall.jpg)

And Painter, still trying to find my way around it so I haven't actually tried to do something just doodled, but I'll say it again, it is an awesome tool

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/first-apple.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/second.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/thick-bristle.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/boat.jpg

[Darkstrider]

Painter seems to have rejuvenated your work. Those last ones are looking much better IMO. I especially like the apple, though the way the shadow is under it makes it look like it's floating. I think you're getting real close, you mainly just need more experience and to study anatomy more. Keep with it man, you'll break though! You obviously have good imagination, and that's half the battle right there.
Are you doing still lifes and looking at some drawing books to see how it's done? Like that apple, was it imaginary or a real one on the table in front of you? It's amazing how much of a difference it makes actually looking at things.

Great perseverence! :)

[emilpaun]

Darkstrider - thanks man, yeah Painter is something different than PS, although the latter is quite powerfull as well. :)

Thanks for the encouragements, i hope i am getting closer myself, sometimes i get tired of producing only crap :)

No, the apple was from imagination, and i don't get the chance to do still lives too much, it's only during the week-end that i can work more, but i'm working on "correcting" that :)

The drawing books I've just started reading them, unfortunately i can't yet post any non-digital sketches, hope i'll "correct" that aspect as well.

Draw safely :)

[emilpaun]

Some more fooling around in Painter

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/seceris.jpg

This was intended to be an anatomy and perspective study :)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/robots.jpg

Values

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/fruit.jpg

"A Thief, a and a Liar" (Evanescence)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/twl.jpg

[emilpaun]

Ok, I got my scanner. A state-of-the-art wonder, a marvellous piece :D so let's cut the bullsh*t an start talking business.

After a week-end of scanning at various dpi's and sorting and cropping and rearranging, and rescanning, I came up with these 29 jpeg's to illustarte my pencil work starting last summer till yesterday.

I don't know why but I feel it's like a fresh start for me, hope it's a good one too. So it's temporarily bye-bye to painter and ps (although not totally) and enter his majesty, The Pencil.

So this is where I was at last summer ( There are many other pieces of crap that I won't post here)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-013.jpg

This one is from this winter and it kinda made me feel I would never make it to being an artist

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-015.jpg

My coffe mug

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-014.jpg

Did these with a liner

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-010.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-012.jpg

Some muscle study (must get an anatomy book)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-016.jpg

Some cans, befor becoming my lunch

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-017.jpg

a boat

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-022.jpg

a military vehicle

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-020.jpg

some figure studies

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-021.jpg

pencil and liner

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-023.jpg

some portraits i did from reference

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-025.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-019.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-018.jpg

perspective

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-026.jpg

perspective and eyes

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-027.jpg

some more eyes

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-029.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-028.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-004.jpg

various head studies

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-001.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-003.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-002.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-005.jpg

And finally these are the most recent sketches

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-006.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-007.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-008.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-009.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my15-030.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/Scan1.jpg

[emilpaun]

but, please, stop, I can't possibly answer you all :(

no piece of crap for today

[MindCandyMan]

hehehe...don't worry kr33p...keep drawing for yourself...even if no one responds. It's great to see you using a pencil and experimenting. I think the first thing anyone needs to do is work from life. You are drawing some things from imagination without the tools with which to do so...set up an apple or any kind of object you enjoy (make sure it is simple, small, etc...) and draw that and keep working on it...days and days until you get it to look exactly as it is in reality. You will have many questions along the way...post them in here and I will answer them...if you want to get better do that and you will...just trust me on this one I know apples are boring and stuff...but think of it this way...if you can't draw an apple in front of you when all the values are there, etc... then how do you expect to draw a monster with muscles, etc... and render them all correctly. Keep it up don't lose heart.

[Signature]

MindCandyMan is right.
Worry about proportions only for a while. Later about values too.
I like the simpler ones that you did more than the others.

Keep it up!

[pandawhipped]

Its great that you are cranking out the drawings, go ahead and post EVERYTHING you do here, even if you think its awful. A year from now you'll look at it be amazed at how far youve come!

I saw a note that said Loomis, is that what you are studying? Keep doing that for sure, but also go out and get the human figure by John Vanderpoel. Its only like 7 bucks and its really good for studying the facial features.

Your eye studies are good, but you are relying too heavily on your lines to carry your drawings. Try to find just the big shapes the light and shadows make, and then fill them in. It might feel strange, but hwen you're done your picture should look like an eye :)

In your portraits, your pupils are HUGE, like they are heavily dialated. I think your eyes in general are too big, but your pupils are what really stood out to me.

It looks like you are drawing a complete face, and then going in after and shading it. Look for the tuorials in this life drawing forum that Ron (fredflickstone) did for head drawing, and try to emulate that. It should help you a lot!

Keep going though, dont stop posting, and dont worry about people not responding, if anything do this for yourself, so you can look back and see your improvement over the years.

-Ryan

[emilpaun]

First I'd like to thank you all for being so supportive, I browsed other forums too but never saw so many people willing to help, or say kind words. Even when all one (such as myself :) ) can produce is toootal crap :) Thanks guys, if I ever am going to progress it will surely be because of the environment I found here.

MindCandyMan - Thanks, guess what? Tonight I'm buyng me some apples :D. And yes, I am trying to do everything at once when I know the right way to go is one step at a time... I must remember that. Thanks again.

Signature - Thanks for stopping by. Yeap, values are tough. I'll try to stick to proportions for a while :) But I don't promise I won't include some crappy values from time to time in my dumps :D. Thank you.

pandawhipped - Thank you, I will post everything, even though most of the sketches I do make me feel embarassed. Hopefully in a year from now I'll be less embarassed. Yes, I am studying Loomis and his books are great. But unfortunately it is extremely difficult to buy books from here as most of the services wouldn't ship (yet, I hope) to Romania, or the proper means of payment are not yet available, but I'll try to have some of my friends outside look Vanderpoel out for me. Yes the pupils in my ayes are huge, aren't they? :) Will try to fix that, thanks. And yes my eyes are too big, am working on that as well. I have read Ron's tutorials but I guess the best way is to take them home and study them hard there. I won't stop posting, but sometimes not getting feedback kind of makes me feel frustrated, but I won't quit, that's for sure, I have gotta try to make the best out of this.

So it's settled, no more crappy values like these for a while :)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/speed.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my18-001.jpg

Some figure sketches I did from some photographs from corbis

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my18-002.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my18-003.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my18-004.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my18-005.jpg

The head on top of this one was done using reference

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my19-001.jpg

Some head studies, no ref

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my19-002.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my19-003.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my19-004.jpg

And another crappy sketch to end with

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my19-005.jpg

[Signature]

Yeah I'd keep doing things that are too difficult too.
The most important thing is that you enjoy what you are doing.

Something else I want to add:
from time to time you should look at images you did and redraw them.
Or just think about what you see.
I think in most of the heads the mouth and tip of the nose are too far away from the eyes.

Don't always just go on to the next image and hope that you get lucky.
Practice finding errors. Find errors and fix them.
And you also might want to practice seeing potential in subjects/images.
Not sure how to explain that .... I think it helped me to look at other artists' images (mostly art by beginners) and ask myself what I'd change to make it look better.

Very good line quality in that one IMO:
http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my18-004.jpg
I think if you'd redraw it and fix the anatomical issues it would totally rock.

Looking forward to seeing the apples btw :)

[emilpaun]

Signature - Thanks for the advice, yes I think that redoing some of the sketches could point out some progres (if any) as well :) I will redo the one you pointed out tonight. We'll see how it turns out. Yes, I keep drawing really "long-nosed" people, but couldn't find a way to fix that yet. Will be working on that... (Man that sounds like a lot of work piling up already :) ) Thanks again

[emilpaun]

Hmm, I seem not to be able to pick apples, because I got the ones with the most irregular shape ever :) One thing I noticed; as I get home quite late in the evening, I can only draw in artifficial light, this morning I saw the same apples in natural light, and they looked alot better. Need to redo them this weekend... And I need to get a lamp so that I can direct light when drawing at night...

So here are my apples and sketches for today :)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my20-006.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my20-002.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my20-005.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my20-007.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my20-004.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my20-003.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my20-001.jpg

[emilpaun]

Just did this in PS for dsg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/dsg437.jpg

[MindCandyMan]

kr33p - Good to see you drawing a lot! Next time you do them see if you can take a picture of the setup from your angle and it will be easier to critique. But there are some things I can say. Even though you said they were strange looking apples I doubt that they actually looked like that. Make sure before you start rendering that you have them blocked in right...get all the little intricate curves, etc...do the outline lightly. Check the negative space...etc... Try to imagine the shadow shapes as abstract images...like you do when you look at clouds...look for dragons...people, cars...etc... I would say one of the most important things is to squint while you are doing this...it simplifies the shadow shapes tremendously and gives you an accurate view of the values. Also find your darkest dark first and then your lightest light...establish them in your mind and then use those values as your "guide". Sorry I am stating all of this as it comes to my mind so it isn't arranged very well. But check out THIS (http://www.mindcandyman.com/jons_uploads/mouthcastprogression.jpg) and apply the same technique when viewing the apple...outline the major shadow shapes and then analyze everything. Hope that helps...can't wait to see the next attempt...keep it up.

[emilpaun]

Hya MCM! :) and no, the apples did not look like that, NO apples look like that. EVER! :) It makes a lot of sense what you are saying. Unfortunately I can't take a picture of the setup... I can't afford a digital camera right now, but it's on my list... Life is kind of harsh here (but not impossible :) ). I will draw this weekend those apples again, provided I don't eat them :), this time in natural light, and keeping in mind what you have said (btw, I didn't quite understand what "negative space" means), hope I get them close to "almost right" next time. Thanks for the tips, they are extremely useful.

Till apples this is what I did yesterday. (I know I promised no more values for a while, but I kinda got carried away :) )


http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my21-001.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my21-003.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my21-002.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my21-004.jpg

[emilpaun]

DSG 438

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/dsg438.jpg

[emilpaun]

Really really unproductive weekend this was... And frustrating, so frustrating that in ogre-like impulse I ate my subjects. So only one apple for now. I feel like this I should rename this thread REgress thread as there is certainly no PROgress here

Five more pieces of crap:
http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my23-003.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my23-002.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my23-006.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my23-001.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my23-005.jpg

[emilpaun]

Four more pages of reasons for frustration... I'll soon run out of paper and I'm having second thoughts about buying some more

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my25-003.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my25-005.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my25-002.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my25-001.jpg

[Darkstrider]

Wow KR33P... thought I'd check in and see how you're doin', and I'm actually quite surprized at your progress! You're doing exactly what you need to do... you're drawing a lot, you seem able to see your own mistakes, and you're working to correct them. As I looked down the page of drawings, it's funny how many times I would say things like.... "Dude, you need to study skull structure to straighten out those heads"... and then in the next drawing you're doing skull studies!

I think one thing you should do is make yourself use a full range of values (when you do use values that is). I notice you even wrote yourself that you need to find the darks and lights... and i do see more darks popping up in the latest drawings... but you don't have any blacks anywhere. Your greys tend to have a very limited range, and the texturing always kind of looks the same. Have you tried using different grades of lead, like maybe an HB, a 2B and a 4B in the same drawing? If you do that, you want to start with the softer (darker) leads and then work over them with the lighter ones. With a good soft lead you can get blacks that are solid and dark.

I think something that would help you to see how to use a full range of values would be to find a drawing that uses them and copy it, and really try to get everything exact. It seems like maybe you draw pretty fast... slow down and really look at what you're drawing. Find where you need to punch up the darks or lighten that middle grey, and do it. We all have pre-programmed bad habits that we need to force ourselves to break... that's what learning and improving is about. It's hard, but you have to force yourself to change those habits.

You asked what negative shapes are, and i don't think anybody answered yet, so I'll do it. It refers to the spaces between objects.... look at for instance your drawing of the 2 apples (before you devoured the one;) ) and imagine the apples themselves as solid black silouettes, with the paper itself being white. The white area is the negative space. Learn to look at these spaces... in some drawings it will be very simple, maybe a large area or a small one... in some it will be vey complex, like if there were say a bunch of wrenches scattered on a table. In fact, in my design class they made us draw wrenches, arranging them and drawing them as silouettes black on white, paying attention only to the negative spaces. You ought to try something like that, it really helps. It makes you start to see the actual design on the paper itself, rather than just seeing the illusion that the drawing creates.

I hope to see some really dense black in something you post soon!

Adios!

[emilpaun]

Darkstrider - thanks man, well I'm not sure it's a progress, I mean, yes my drawings look better than they did a year ago, but still it seems that I'm not moving fast enough...
It is true that I'm using only 2B's (can't actually say why, because I bought and other b's as well :) ) but I'll change that as of tonight ;) I'll try to do one thing at a time, but there are so many things I want to do and all at once... :)
So now let me try to see if I understood correctly what negative space is... it is basically the area that "surrounds" the objects, right? so trying identify or to draw the negative space is drawing the "space" around the objects and not the objects... hope i got that correctly, i'll try this tonight to see what happens, it's intersesting. Thanks again man

PS those things i wrote about stating blacks strongly, are actually from loomis :)

[Darkstrider]

Yeah, the progress does seem awfully slow while you're on that road, but every step brings you closer.... :D (don't you hate such trite, cheesey sayings? They really are true though)

You've got it right about negative spaces.... it's the gaps between the solid forms. Looking at these spaces and thinking of your composition in terms of flat silouette shapes helps you to see the basic shapes you're drawing, and to plan the layout. Sometimes, like when looking at the figure, you mioght notice that an arm is bent in such a way that there's an open space inside the elbow that has a certain angle, and it might help you to place things that are otherwise difficult to see.

Keep it up man... I'll be watching! :cool:

[Janshi]

Absolutely loved the ink drawings that you did in flash.

[stacy]

hey KR33P
awesome stuff...the past i dont know....3,4 posts there are some MAJOR improvements. very very cool. :chug:
i dont know if anyone else said this already but...
the only thing i noticed in alot of your heads (mind you im in no way a professional so uhh im probably wrong) the chin seems to be a little too...squished. you need to lengthen it or something.
yep thats about it
keep posting and drawing!! good luck :)

[emilpaun]

Darkstrider - my progress reminds me of the road to my parents'... I'm driving a really really old car, which only goes like 120 kph tops, and along the highway I get passed by these guys in their brand new cars at 200 kph :D. But some day I hope I'll buy one of those cars myself :D

Janshi - Thanks for stopping by, yaeh Flash is quite forgiving, and smooths out the curves for you, absolutely great with a tablet :)

stacy - Thanks :) Yes the chins in my drawings are weird, aren't they? It's not only the chin I'm having problems with but the lower the mid and the upper part of the head :D But I'm trying to fix that, studying skulls seems to be helpful...

I went to bed last night around nine PM, so no time for drawing, but I did these this morning before going to work (and I used 6B and 2B pencils :)), to make up, tonight I must double my efforts :)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my26-001.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my26-002.jpg

[emilpaun]

More heads and some muscles

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my27-004.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my27-003.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my27-002.jpg

and some other... stuff

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my27-001.jpg

[MindCandyMan]

Now this is what I like to see kr33p...you are drawing drawing drawing. It's really really frustrating at the beginning...at least it was for me. It makes it especially difficult to learn on your own with no supervision or teaching. But honestly there is tons of progress in these pages...It's hard to see yourself progressing but you definitely aren't regressing...but seriously, I know the feeling. No matter what stage you are at there will always be frustrations as an artist and a ton of things you can't do...plus there will always be someone better than you that's for sure no matter how good you are. But look at that woman's head on the last page that you did...and tell me you haven't improved! The latest apple looks a lot better! The shadows are still a little confused though. It's hard to critique without seeing the apple but these things may help. if you look at the shadows in your apple there are some rather dark spots in the lower left that confused the brain and don't belong...also if you look at the highlight on the top of the apple on the right...it seems to trail downward a bit like a snake. You have to really really pay attention to how the light is acting when looking at the object you are drawing...if the transition is so subtle when you squint that you can't see a dividing line between the shadows and such then you need to make the transition the same exact way on your drawing. If you see a highlight analyze it...is it round, square...what are the edges of the highlight...does it fade out into dark or are the edges of the highlight very sharp and very distinct. These are all things you need to analyze while drawing your apple. Analyze every single shadow shape when you squint and get those first...then look at the edges of each shadow shape and analyze further etc... This is why adding color into the mix at the beginning is so tough because it throws a whole other thing to learn into play...it's tough enough to get value, edges, form, etc... right. Keep up your pace don't stop...when you feel frustrated get mad and draw some more. You are doing great...keep it up! Sorry it took me a while to respond I haven't been online for a while.

[sula_nebouxi]

Hey KR33P...I just read through the whole thread and I gotta say, you've made a LOT of progress! It's important though to take your time. Eventually you will be able to draw faster while maintaining accuracy. But, I think at the beginning it's important to really analyze the subject like MindCandyMan suggested. When I draw something, I usually don't start right away. Sometimes I take a few minutes to study the subject. I look at the curves, the shadows, the little details, and how everything relates to each other. Really scrutinize everything.

It seems like there isn't much drawing from life though...aside from the apples. Try doing a self portrait with a mirror or drawing a family member. A self portrait is a little easier to do. Life drawing is *extremely* important to drawing better. It teaches you how to deal with 3d space and the problems it produces. The studies done from pictures are good but studying from real life is more beneficial.

A couple of tips I learned along the way:
1. When drawing something from life, it can help to see the subject as shapes, lines, negative spaces, and shadows and not as things like noses, legs, or eyes. Draw what you see and try not to think what the object is supposed to be or what it's supposed to look like.

2. When drawing something from life, you get something called bifocal vision. That is when each eye sees an object from seperate viewing points, creating a 3d image of the object. It can be confusing looking at an object like this and it can show in drawings. Something I usually do when an object is closeby is I close one of my eyes. This accomplishes 2 things, it eliminates bifocal vision and it "flattens" the image onto the picture plane so it will be easier to draw.

3. Draw from life for at least half an hour a day(heh I need to follow my own advice). And don't worry that you're not progressing as much as you would like. It takes years and years to get good. But, you're making tons of progress. Don't give up :)

Ya know...I was pretty horrible at drawing a few years ago. I can't find any of my drawings from back then, but I think it's better that they never see the light of day :D. Everything was hideous, I had disfigured heads and bodies...but I kept drawing and drawing even though it was kinda disappointing to see how bad they looked. I'm still nowhere near where I'd like to be but I still do it. It's fun to me and I like to think that with some practice I'll be like fredflickstone one day heh. Don't stop drawing cause eventually, you'll be a kickass artist.

[emilpaun]

MindCandyMan - Hey, I got all the supervision I need, here at CA, and it's free, too :) Now, seriously, I can't afford going to classes, and as a matter of fact I don't even know of the existence of an atelier here, but my mind is set, if I get better, by the next fall (not this year), I am going to try to go to the art college here, who knows... The problem with the apple was that I had two light sources (the window and the monitor), secondly it was placed on a very reflective table and it was a very colorful one, it had huge red and yellow areas, and color is something I am not ready for ... won't repeat that next time, I'm getting green apples :) Also I need to concentrate more, I don't "think" my subject enough... Thanks!

sula_nebouxi - Thanks, I'll try to slow down :) I need to focus more and try to get things right first... Unfortunately there isn't going to be much drawing from life too soon, I've recently moved to Bucharest, practically don't know too many people around here, at least nobody willing to pose that is :) and my fiancee won't move in with me until she finishes studies this august so for the moment it's only pictures and apples :) But hey I'm thinking variation, tomorrow I am going to try and draw some eggs as well for a change :D.
This is my main problem, I can't seem to be drawing what I SEE, but something that almost looks like it but not quite right. Will try with one eye closed, see what I end up with, thanks for the tip ;) Years and years you say? OMG, but hey I'm still young :D Unfortunately I still keep my drawings, man I used to suck even more :D Thanks for the encouragements (fredflickstone you say? I was thinking I wanted to be the next loomis :) )

Okey, now I now I shouldn't be trying more elaborate stuff, because I always end up with disproportionate figures and stuff, but hey I can't help it :) (I also realized that I need to understand legs and feet better)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my28-001.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my28-002.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my28-003.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my28-004.jpg

I also need to buy better quality paper

[Darkstrider]

Wow...
Who are you, and what have you done with KR33P??!!

lol! Hey, that's some great progress just since the last time I looked in here man. I think the darker pencils are working.

I agree with what MindCandyMan said about getting smoother transitions in your shading. When you get right down to it, that's one of the main things in drawing, if you're using value. It might help you to try an exercise that my drawing instructor put us through:

Draw three squares and fill each one with a value... make one very light, one middle tone, and one as dark as you can get it. Don't let any lines show and don't get any splotchiness or gradation... the goal is to see completely even value in each box. The squares can be fairly small... maybe the size of your thumbnail. Don't go outside the edges... neatness is very important... this exercise is about developing control.

Here's where it gets better. Now draw 9 boxes and do the same exercise, but instead of using only 3 values, use 9. So your first box will be the same very light value from your first exercise, the fifth one should be the same as the earlier middle one, and your last one should be the same as your eralier darkest value, only now you need to find the in-betweens. Be very careful to try to keep everything nice and even... some people will end up with the first three or four boxes being very different from each other and the rest all being pretty much the same value. If this happens, do it again... until you get it right. It's fair to use different grades of lead. For getting those darks, you want to start lightly and build up... making sure to keep your lines close and even.


I've got a sheet where i did this in college, and a shpere and some drapery studies all one one big piece of bristol board.... I'll try to get a pic and post it, but it's too big for the scanner so it'll need to be with my crappy webcam. Or maybe I'll do it smaller so I can scan it.

It's also a good idea to draw a long rectangle and shade it with a gradation... from your lightest light to your darkest dark evenly. Maybe draw a whole row of them and do the exercise over and over. When you've mastered this your drawing will improve dramatically.

Oh, and a suggestion for the next apple drawings... put some cloth or paper or something on that table so it doesn't mess with you. You could crank up the difficulty (if you want) by leaving the cloth wrinklled... apples and a drapery study in one! :evilbat:

And remember, the tortoise beat the hare!:D

[emilpaun]

Darkstrider - WOW great idea, great... I'll try to do that, over and over again, thanks. That should teach some values into me :) And neatness :)
Err, I'm not that sure about the wrinkles but I'll surely throw in some eggs along with the apples, this weekend :) Thanks again!
Gotta go buy some paper :)

[chi-oh]

:eek:

:rubs eyes.
:blink
:0_0; (sweatdrop)


never seen such improvement. . GOODJOB BRO! keep the hard work up. . all your dedication and hours of drawings really shows.

[emilpaun]

Hey Monday again :)

chi-oh - thanks. No I really mean it :) You know, it's really diffficult to see where I am at, from my point of view, but the comments I've been receiving lately tell me that I have somehow found the map. Now if could just find the right way... :) Thanks again

Well kind of a busy weekend, I re-thought the design of my site, and I am planning to put it in English as well, and that took me quite a long time... (you know those are excuses for not drawing too much, don't you? :) )

Just some fun
http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my31-003.jpg

I tried to do what Darkstrider told me, but I only outlined 3 colums, I think after 300 I am more likely to get close.
Man, is that difficult, especially establishing the mid-values...

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my31-001.jpg

Had to leave home before I got the chance of finishing this. But it was turning out really crappy. BTW that in the background is a huuge lemon. How about em variations :)?

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/my31-002.jpg

[emilpaun]

Hey, as I said I re-thought my site, the new version includes an iframe that points to this thread...Just a temporary thing until I can get all the design in one place... I was wondering if the moderators would mind my doing that...

Please check this out and tell me what you think (BTW the girl in the header is my fiancee)

www.grafx.home.ro

[Darkstrider]

Hey, actually, you just about nailed it on those squares! 300 might be a bit excessive... I'd say only maybe 298 or so....

Heh heh. No, seriously, I wouldn't go overboard on something so mind-numbing... you'll just drive yourself crazy. Just doing it a few times will impress the idea of value control into your mind, and then think about it when you're drawing. The next step, of course, is to learn just where to use which value. Copying photographs is good for that. Or if you'd rather work from life, that's all good too. I think you can go darker yet on those darkest ones, and try to smooth them out some more.

You know, I think apples and eggs are kind of shapeless blobs, kind of hard to draw... and you don't get any practice with hard edges or straight lines, or with cylinders and cubes, etc. You might want to add in some simple objects, maybe a salt and pepper shaker or a box of matches or something... try to get something cylindrical, something cubic, and something spherical (or similar anyway).

I hope you don't mind, I swiped your drawing and did a little Painter work over it (I suck at Painter, and this was quick, but I hope I got the general idea across):

http://www.darkstrider.net/images/my31-002.jpg

What I'm trying to demonstrate here is 2 things I think you might benefit from.... smoother texturing, and a stronger use of value contrast to punch up your work. Even if you want the rather extreme texturing you tend to get (I don't know if that's just really grainy paper, or if you're doing it) you could still smooth things out a bit, to give the eye a little rest. It's sort of like looking at them through pebbled glass, which can be neat, but detracts from realistic drawing.

Also, try to find where you need some really dark value to make things pop out. A lot of this comes from watching the drawing itself develop, as much as looking at the objects before you. You already had the darks there... I just darkened them some more. I like to try to always include at least a small area of your darkest value somewhere... and your lightest, to bring out a full range of values.

Sometimes you should bring the drawing all the way to the edges of the paper. It creates a much stronger illusion.

Anyway, you're really kickin' some booty here... keep it up! Oh, and congrats on a cute fiance too! :chug:

[emilpaun]

Darkstrider - 298 is do-able :)
Yeah, my mistake, the paper is actually that grainy, it was a tough one :) But I just got some smooth paper that is waiting for me at home hehe. Will try the squares again. I must get it right :) And I'll throw in something... cubic to go with the eggs :)

Thanks for everything

[emilpaun]

too...lazy...to...do...anything

[MindCandyMan]

Hey KR ...I know what you mean about the paper being grainy so there are other options...fill in the holes with your sharp pencil point (make a mass of tiny strokes to build up the tone)...get smoother paper (although all paper will have some tooth so you will still need to use a sharp pencil)...or draw on a bigger scale so the perceived value will be right (not the best method).

Take a look at the things I have circled on your drawing...these are all areas of highlight...meaning the brightest brights of your lemon...were these all the brightest brights in reality I can tell that they weren't...you have to learn to think of the brightest white and the darkest dark and then preserving those values. If there is one spot that is brighter than the rest when you squint...it HAS to be brighter than the rest for your drawing to work right...it doesn't necessarily have to be the white of the paper but it needs to be the lightest value in your drawing...here is what I mean:

[emilpaun]

MCM - hehehe, you're right as usual, although that drawing was pretty much unfinished, I had only worked on it for some 15 minutes before I had to leave home, I would surely have left those areas brighter... I need to think more and consider more the subject I am drawing, that is for sure. Thanks. I promise I'll do better next time :)

I had a pretty busy week up till now and can't see how it would become less busy in the next few days, but I promise some updates after the week end

[MindCandyMan]

Originally posted by KR33P
I need to think more and consider more the subject I am drawing, that is for sure. Thanks. I promise I'll do better next time :)


No worries...this is all part of learning. You are doing great just keep up your momentum. It takes a while to learn to juggle everything at the same time. One thing that might help is to set up a little still life table or something where you can control the lighting. Maybe point a desk lamp at the fruit or something so you can always come back to it if you need to. You definitely need more than 15 minutes to do the lemon justice...I suppose there is some professional out there who can do it in 15 min but that would be insanely fast! Keep up the good work.

[emilpaun]

<!-- END busy week /-->

MCM - thanks, hmm, maybe in 250 years or so I'll be able to draw that lemon in 15 minutes :). yes, a still life table, good idea!
note: buy a table :)

Allright, not much to show, these were done yesterday, and I decided to work longer on everything, so neither is what I would actually call "finished". Maybe tomorrow :)

One more thing, am I "allowed" to use the finger for smudging? :)

weird right eye

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn06-003.jpg

wrong right arm, wrong perspective on the chair and can't decide wether to lighten or darken more... and some funny spots that show that I am way too sloppy

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn06-001.jpg

[emilpaun]

New stuff

More work on this, still need to fix her arm

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn07-001.jpg

Another bad arm in Mr Thug here

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn07-003.jpg

And a "When I Found the Truth" kind-of-thing

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn07-002.jpg


[EDIT] One more question, where should I invest some money, processor or RAM? (given that I have an 850MHz Duron with 128DDRAM, and don't have too much to invest for now) I'm kind of getting tired of Painter hanging while I perform the last save and ruining all my work. (I tried to colour the last one and after two hours I lost everything)

[Darkstrider]

Hey I like those darks you're putting in there! You could use more of it, and I'd say also leave more white. There's an awful lot of middle tone there. Looks like overall your proportioning is improving, aside from the mistakes you pointed out already. At least you're aware of them.

As far as I'm concerned, I would say smudge away! I'm a confirmed smudger myself, though apparently some people don't like the idea. It's all about finding what works for you. That's why you want to experiment a lot. I really came into my own as a struggling art student when I started going nuts with an eraser. At first it was about fixing mistakes, but I began to see that it creates a certain kind of mark... a whole range of them actually, and creates a quality you don't get any other way. I like to keep one side of the eraser 'clogged' with graphite, all black with it (sort of silver actually) and you can use it to smear with. It has a different quality than your finger. I'd also try using a kleenex or paper towel for large areas, and maybe get some of those paper stumps (or just roll your own).

The thing about all this though is that you have to be selective with it. I mean, I definitey went nuts in the beginning and made some really crazy drawings that soon foind their way into the trash, but after a while I learned how to use it. You just want to use smearing in areas where you want it to look smoother... it hides the texture of the paper (well, depending on how you do it, it could bring it out more). Smearing over an already dark area will smooth things out, fill in the white dots of the paper, and to some extent lighten the graphite, while smearing from a dark area into the white of the paper will create a nice tonal gradation but can put graphite onto the tops of the little bumps of the paper, creating grain. Experiment with it for a while, it's fun (and messy)!

Sorry, I don't know what to tell you about the computer issue. I had the same problem last night! Luckily, I had saved a few copies along the way. What really pissed me off was when I tried to put a little bit of reddish oil pastel onto a finger and it gave me a pop-up saying "Not enough memory to perform this function". It did it over and over, and then refused to save for me! AAArrrggg!!! I'm getting ready to go in and try to re-do the last steps now.

[emilpaun]

Darkstrider - cool! Hey I always hated when my eraser turned black, never thought of using it to smudge, no greasy spots for the future :)

Must try it! Thanks

[sula_nebouxi]

Keep up the great work KR33P! I still have loads more work to do if I ever want to draw anything coherent from the imagination. :)

Going along with the smudging issue, I find that chamois cloth is really nice. It's like a small felt pad. It works best with charcoal but it creates a nice smooth even tone when you smudge with it. It's not too great when you want a gradation but, it does a great job when you only need one shade. One of the nice things about chamois is it picks up a lot of charcoal. So, after you smudge an area, it stays on the cloth and you can reuse it on another area. It'll even stay the same tone when used that way.

Oh, I hear it's bad to smudge with your fingers. It's better to use a blending stump or tortillon. It's bad because your finger can leave behind an oily residue that can damage your work and leave behind little marks. I know...I have a bunch of stuff that has little dark marks I can't get rid of. :(

Anyways, keep drawing! I'd love to see how you draw in a year's time :)

[emilpaun]

sula_nebouxi - yeah, I know, lots and lots of tiny black dots, I hate them :). Thank you, I am not sure how chamois cloth is translated into romanian, but I'm gonna look it up on the net :)

Just bought me some charcoal, but I also need some fixative if I want to scan whatever I do without ruining my scanner :). But tomorrow is pay day, if I find out what chamois is, I'll try it on charcoal :)

Thanks again!

[EDIT] found it! I'm using it to wipe my glasses ;)

[sula_nebouxi]

I was actually told that fixative is bad for your drawings. My figure drawing teacher said that if you use it, after a few years the area that was sprayed turns yellow and it kinda ruins the drawing. She said if you really want to keep the stuff on there, use hair spray. :)

Have fun with the charcoal! Somehow, it makes every drawing look better. :)

[emilpaun]

sula_nebouxi - thanks, hehe my bad English kicks in again, sorry :) hairspray is what I meant, it is a lot cheaper too :)

Updates of the day. More darks and whites, less middle values, huh? :)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn08-001.jpg

I used the eraser to smudge on this one, weird what it can do :)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn08-002.jpg

[Darkstrider]

Hey, using more dark really makes your art more dramatic... especially in that first one!

On the second one, I'd like to point out the angle of the face. I'm sure there are much better tutorials about this... Kchen must have it on his excellent figure drawing thread somewhere, but I didn't have the time to search for it, so I just drew this up real quick:

http://www.darkstrider.net/images/FaceAngle.jpg
In most faces, the angle of the plane of the face is slightly inclined. It's very rare to see one that goes out at the bottom (it does happen, like in people with a severe underbite).

Have you tried drawing like somebody yet? That can help a lot, because you have a good idea already of what the finished result should look like. Maybe if you have a favorite artist or two try a few emulations (it's sort of like copying, only you don't copy actual drawings, just try to draw in their style... though for learning purposes copying is completely fair and encouraged). I learned a LOT from emulating Mark Texeira.

[emilpaun]

Darkstrider - Thank you!
I tried to colour that first one and when it was turining out fine, Painter hanged and ruined it, again! Man, it is so stubborn! :)

Hmmm I always wondered why my profiles turn out that weird, and your drawing, BAM! hit me in the face! It was so obvious... :)

I got everything KChen posted on that thread at home, but it does not make too much sense without the explanations... In a month or so I should be able to have internet at home, so it should be easier to study. :)

No, as a matter of fact I have not tried to copy someone's style yet, but, I'll try to do that, thanks :)
_________________________________

Somebody in Canada bought for me these books

The Human Figure - John Vanderpoel
An Atlas of Anatomy for Artists - Fritz Schider

I should get them next week, but they cost me some 40$ (without shipping) which was the sum I had calculated for six books on amazon... :( Guess I'll have to wait for the other four another couple of months, I'm sooo sad :(

[emilpaun]

gotta cut my fingers off for being too greasy and ruining my drawings :chainsaw:

updates:
more work on this (greasy fingerprints included)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn10-001.jpg

really bad profiles...

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn10-003.jpg

tonight, loomis and kchen :)

[Darkstrider]

That drawing with the lady.... errr, half lady (quarter lady?) is really freakin' me out man! Lookin' good!

On the two profiles, do you plan to bring the dark background down behind the human face? Cause the edge of the profile disappears. You tend to use very thin lines (something you might want to develop is thicker lines. I like to start with thin light ones until I see it's working and then go over them and build them up. I'll go really thick in places where it's shaded). But it's a cool picture. I like the contrast between the two heads.

I never have the problem with greasy fingers. I don't know, maybe I just have naturally dry skin... or... no, wait.... is that a bucket of fried chicken beside you?? ;)
Actually, I think the key might be to never let your finger stop on the paper (and don't eat potato chips while drawing). Or, maybe I just have naturally dry skin.

Anyway, I thought I'd direct your attention to this thread I stumbled across in the lobby a while ago: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19458

Apparently the Painter Crash problem is universal. It tends to happen when you save. I know it's happened to me a number of times now. I'm thinking about going back to Photoshop (GASP!). Just thought you might want to know before investing in more RAM or something.

[emilpaun]

Darkstrider - Thanks! Well no potato chips there, but there might have been some before leaving the kitchen and heading for the drawing board, but I could not recall that entirely at this moment, no sir :o (lol) Oh, and I do have kind of greasy skin too :(

Note: gotta buy some gloves :)

I actually completely erased the contour lines around her face, because I wanted to make her complexion really really fair. And yes, I do plan to make the background really dark... But I don't know what I'll end up with :)

Thanks for the tip, but using thick lines and shading, wouldn't that make the drawing look somewhat, err... cartoonish :rolleyes: ? Or maybe I didn't quite understand what you meant... but I'will definitely try that, too :)

[sula_nebouxi]

Wow! good work on those profiles. Although one thing that seems off is the eye. It looks a bit too low. Ideally the eye starts at the point where the brow curves into the nose.

Here's what I mean:
http://www.3d.sk/renata/TN_Renata_0087.JPG

I can't really see the edge but it looks like the eye is slightly below the 'deepest' curve.

Hmm...I thought that was a drawing of a guy too :(...something about it was very...man-like. I can't put my finger on it. It may be the nose and lips. I just tried covering each body part to see if the rest suggested it was a female. I don't think I can help much here. There are slight differences in facial features but I don't know enough about anatomy to describe them. I only know it when I see it.

Oh and about the background issue. I agree with darkstrider. Shading the background will bring the figure outwards and make it easier to see.

I did this in 5 min with MS Paint:

http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~atso/elfy.JPG

It makes a big difference. Plus it makes it a bit more realistic since it doesn't rely on huge thick, bold lines to define an edge. I think what darkstrider was talking about was line weight. Edges are lighter where the light hits and darker where there is a shadow. It also emphasizes where the weight is 'pushing' on a body. Like the bone protruding out of the ankle. Here is a pic of what I mean:

http://www.seriks.com/2004/fig-13.jpg

It can be used in realistic finished drawings but usually it's hard to see it. It's kinda meant for the sketch phase where everything is worked out. Anyways, keep drawing! You're making great progress.:)

[emilpaun]

sula_nebouxi - hehehe, this is what I did last night

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn11-003.jpg

Imagine my surprise when I came to work this morning and checked out your post :). I tried to fix the eye (although I don't seem to have succeeded in doing that) darkened the background and changed a little bit the position of his hand. Now I am really upset about HER hand, which I don't seem to get somewhere close to right, and I can't use my hand as reference since I am right handed :D

Thanks for the tips, I guess line weight is supposed to give me an idea concerning the areas where I should put more dark... Thank you, I'll keep that in mind.

Well, my first charcoal attempt (my fiancee is probably going to think I bought hairspray for her hehe)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn11-002.jpg

And something I tried to ink, until it turned really bad...

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn11-001.jpg

Man, am I anxious to get those books !

[emilpaun]

hehe, forgot to scan my pics from this weekend, I'm so dumb hehehe :shrug:

[chi-oh]

dam. .if i can draw as fast as you, i would ACTUALLY make progress. GOOD JOB. :D

[emilpaun]

chi-oh - I am not sure that I draw fast enough... I only work 3-4 hours a day, and usually late at night, after coming back form work, and I wish I could draw all day long :)
Thanks! :)

[emilpaun]

I glued the cdrw to mt hand so that I won't forget it anymore at home hehehe

Right, stuff from the weekend

Some really bad head studies

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn14-009.jpg

Then I realized I needed to study more KChen's drawings

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn14-012.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn14-010.jpg

And finally the neck...

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn14-013.jpg

I think limbs are next on my "to study" list (foreshortening will surely follow :) )

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn14-011.jpg

These are from last night
I'm obsessed with the Mr Thug idea

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn14-007.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn14-006.jpg

Need to work more on this, i think her back is wrong and the same problem I've been having with the head profile (the lower jaw, that is)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn14-008.jpg

First attempt at a reflexion

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn14-005.jpg

I actually woke up with this idea around 2 AM last night, I just had to put it on paper. (yeap, I'm crazy)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn15-001.jpg

That's all (for now) :)

[emilpaun]

I realized that I've been concentrating so much on the head that I neglected the whole body. It's so frustrating... I tried last night to study more Loomis... guess what, I can't even draw the manikin frame right, let alone muscles or the body...
At this point I feel this is all I can do by myself, and I'm real far from being satisfied.
I won't post anything today, last night's sketches were all crappy, we'll see what I come up with tonight...

[emilpaun]

I was wondering if there was a way of having everything moved to the daily sketchbook thread?:confused:
Do I have to shoot anybody or something? :)

[MindCandyMan]

Just shoot davi an email or one of the other moderators...someone should be able to help you...keep it up ;)



I realized that I've been concentrating so much on the head that I neglected the whole body. It's so frustrating... I tried last night to study more Loomis... guess what, I can't even draw the manikin frame right, let alone muscles or the body...


This is a good thing! You are seeing that it doesn't look right! Now you will begin the process of making it look right. Push really really hard through this period. Whenever you hit the frustrating times it is a growth spurt...trust me...keep it up!

[emilpaun]

MindCandyMan - Thanks. Hey, you are a moderator, may I shoot you... errr en e-mail that is :D

I trust you with that... unfortunately although I can see it looks wrong, my trying to fix et may turn it even worse, I wish I could have that save as... command, (and let's not forget ctrl+Z :) ) when drawing in pencil... I'm hoping those books I'm waiting (Vanderpoel and Schider) will help me a bunch :)

So, updates.

Loomis

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn17-003.jpg

Some guy

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn17-002.jpg

Some fun (I thought drawing the dragon's skeleton firtst would help me in rendering it better :), but the girl's so ugly! )

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn17-001.jpg

[Floris Didden]

KR33P, you may not see this yourself since you see the faults still currently present in your work and think "nah, it's not as good as it could be", but you progressed imensely since the start of this thread. Getting to the omega is not about making a lucky good drawing, but about making as much miles as possible and that's exactly what you are doing!

I must say you inspired me a lot by your sheer persistance and devotion. I can't wait to get home and start drawing myself now, GD IT ! :rolleyes: (not like I don't draw at work <cough> :p).

Temped to make a daily sketchbook myself now...

[emilpaun]

Floris Didden - thanks for the kind words :) Sometimes it is really frustrating to see how long that road is, but luckily there are enough nice people on this forum that give me the support I need in undertaking this journey. I don't know if I will ever see omega, but hopefully, on reaching beta, that journey won't seem that long :)

Definitely, definitely, definitely start a sketchbook! :)

----------------
Unfortunately I have nothing to post today, and yes I am very ashamed of myself (lol). I will post something after the weekend.

[emilpaun]

01001100 01101111 01101110 01100111 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100010 01110101 01110011 01111001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01100101 01101011 01100101 01101110 01100100 00101100 00100000 01110101 01101110 01100110 01101111 01110010 01110100 01110101 01101110 01100001 01110100 01100101 01101100 01111001 00100000 01001001 00100000 01100011 01101111 01110101 01101100 01100100 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 00100000 01100100 01110010 01100001 01110111 00100000 01100001 01101110 01111001 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00101110 00101110 00101110 00100000 01010011 01110000 01100101 01101110 01110100 00100000 01110011 01101111 01101101 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101001 01101101 01100101 00100000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01101001 01101110 01110011 01110100 01100001 01101100 01101100 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01101101 01111001 00100000 01101110 01100101 01110111 00100000 01110011 01110100 01101111 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01110111 01100001 01110011 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01101101 01100001 01100011 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100101 00101100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01101110 00100000 01001001 00100000 01110011 01110000 01100101 01101110 01110100 00100000 01110011 01101111 01101101 01100101 00100000 01101101 01101111 01110010 01100101 00100000 01110000 01110101 01110100 01110100 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01101101 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110111 01101111 01110010 01101011 00100000 00111010 00101001

really fun :)

http://www.antionline.com/tools-and-toys/encrypt-text/index.php

[emilpaun]

Hmmm, no binary talk, huh? :)

Well, I've been a plumber (had to fix my leaking toilet) and a typist (had to type some pages for my girl) these days, so I barely put a line down... However, last night, or should I say this morning, I drew something... They are way too light, as I only used a 2b, I had to increase contrast in PS... (Not to mention bad anatomy, crappy style, sloppy technique, mediocrity of the subject, lack of talent, etc)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn22-004.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn22-003.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn22-002.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn22-001.jpg

[MindCandyMan]

Hey KR,
I can't move your stuff from this thread to another unfortunately...I can only move stuff around the middle class...but davi would be able to...just shoot him an email or a private message and he will move it for ya...keep up the good work!

[emilpaun]

MCM - thanks, I will ask Davi :)

Just came to a conclusion last night TV IS BAD for creativity :) I need to make up tonight

[emilpaun]

I haven't been drawing too much lately, partially because I've been kind of busy, but I seem to be failing to do anything right at this point with respect to drawing, and I can't find a way out... so frustrating. so damned frustrating

I realized last night, during a short blackout, that the heads I draw have like huuuge, errr I don't know how to say it in english... the part that houses the brain... not the whole skull I mean... or maybe I only draw geniuses

Found it BRAINCASE!!!!!!!!!!!

(Definition: [n] the part of the skull that encloses the brain
Synonyms: brainpan, cranium )

One other thing I noticed, candlelight is great... I'll try to draw more like this, it's so... I don't know...

Enough talking by myself

I'm thinking of making a third personal site, I'm gonna try a really graphic approach to it for a change... something like www.furiae.com and www.roshiweb.com, anyway, this is a study for the layout...

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn24-001.jpg

Then i realized my heads are wrong...

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn24-002.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn24-003.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn24-004.jpg

i need to go to the gym... I gained some real weight this last year... too much computer, less muscle, maybe I'll end up looking like this guy when I'm done hehehe

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn24-005.jpg

[emilpaun]

Okey, I get it, :bash:

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn25-001.jpg

hey, give me a break, it was 2 AM

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn25-002.jpg

[emilpaun]

MY BAD... I UNDERSTAND THE FORUM WAS DOWN FOR THE WEEKEND, SO MY REMARKS ARE MEANINGLESS, I'M ASKING THE JURY TO DISREGARD THEM

PS: THANKS PONTE!




:scared: somebody stole the forum!

:scared: what's with da colors man?

:hmm: I get it, purple looks, lower downloading speed... even at 384k... and no more avatars... :mad:


ye olde pages o' sketches... ( I seem to have forgotten everything... i lost my darks... :bash:

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn28-002.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn28-001.jpg

[emilpaun]

Allright... we moved! Thanks Davi :)
Nothing to post today... :(

[emilpaun]

Updates (tryin' to get those darks back...)

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn30-001.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn30-002.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jn30-003.jpg

[MindCandyMan]

that skull study shows some real improvement...the halo of dark value around it reads kind of weird but the study itself is definitely an improvement...my suggestion is that you need to spend more time on your drawings...you need to really study the light in the skull...sketches are fine but you need to do all out renderings to learn the subtleties of light. Set up an easel or grab your drawing board...set a skull up and put a desk light on it (make sure your setup won't move) and draw it...take 5 weeks if you have to...just make it look as much like that skull as you can. Than your skills will grow...trust me. These sketches are fun but you need to have discipline...just doing the stuff on these last couple pages won't help you grow.

[emilpaun]

MindCandyMan - Thanks, I too have noticed that I reached a point, where everything looks kind of the same... I mean I am not really improving that much as I would've hoped... Tomorrow I'm going on a two week vacation, which means more time to study... I wish I could find a job where I am paid for learning how to draw hehehe, but under the actual circumstances, I have to settle for the 4-5 hours I get a day to put down everything that goes through my head... :( But hey, after this vacation I promise some kickass improvement (yeah, right... :) ) or at least that I try...
A skull, you say? Hmm, I wonder who to kill, who to kill :machinegu (I did that skull for the anatomy study thread, so it had to be from a photo, but still, I don't think I could find one in this... part of the world, but i'll be looking for one)

[emilpaun]

Well, I guess this is good-bye (teardrop rollin outta my eye), for at least two weeks. I'M GOING ON V A C A T I O N!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So no more posts for two whole weeks... Yeeeee! (cheers coming from the public)

Ok, a big headed guy, with really really tiny shoulders

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jy02-001.jpg

And some unfinished painter err... paintings

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/orange.jpg

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/head.jpg

I hope these two weeks will boost my ego and not my frustration, but I guess we'll see that...

[emilpaun]

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jy22-001.jpg

[emilpaun]

kenvelo girl

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jy23-001.jpg

coffee maker

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jy23-002.jpg

compact disc thrower

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jy23-003.jpg

heads

http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jy23-004.jpg

[MindCandyMan]

You need to do more studies from life!!! Where are the still lifes and other things...I want to see them. They will help you grow much more then you thought possible...trust me!

[emilpaun]

MCM - :hmm: errr, still life, and errr the other things, errrr... i could show you how to operate the remote with the tip of your nose, though... :hh: But I'll do some life studies. I promise! (thanks!)

experimenting
http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jy26-001.jpg
poor clothing taste
http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jy26-002.jpg
the ghost rescuer
http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jy26-003.jpg
ribs for the anatomy open thread
http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jy26-004.jpg
musclemen
http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jy26-005.jpg
just started this, we'll see if I finish it
http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/A_Spanish_Woman02.jpg

[emilpaun]

I've been thinking lately that I should stop drawing since obviously I am not going to get any better too soon. Frustration and my incapability to push more have determined me to stop drawing the last month... Browsing this forum I realized that there are some guys who are really "gifted" and that my conscious efforts are very unlikely to get me anywhere near them no matter how hard I might try. But then I realized that hard work and determination can make you (if not an artist "in soul") at least a good technician. Which is good enough. For me, at least.

Nuf said... this is some more of my crap

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/ag24-001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/ag24-002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/ag24-003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/ag24-004.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/ag24-005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/jy24-001.jpg

[emilpaun]

And I wait some more, grrrm, grrrrm, grrrrm

[Jokisalo]

you are getting better pal. ^^
i see some progress with your figures.
keep on drawing them and youll be damn good someday.
and if you have time, please drop by my sketchbook.
thanks

[emilpaun]

Jokisalo - thanks, I'll only stop when I'm dead hehe

Well I'm still waiting for the internet (45 days, could you believe it? That's how long they said it would take... Hmmm) but I did this today at work, and thought it wolud be fun to post it here.

crap (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/enilpaun/felicitare29.jpg)

[emilpaun]

Yeah, I know it's bad :bashful:

One quick question: I'm thinking of changing my tablet, I'm using a genius wizard pen 5x4 right now and I was thinking of changing it with a graphire. I know it has almost the same features as mine for twice the price but I was interested wether the graphire works better in terms of handling and stuff (My tablet does not seem very accurate and sometimes I draw really "jitter-ish" - pardon my English, please - lines, especially in photoshop, and that's not me). Anyone tested the two?

I know I should get an Intuos, but that's way outta my league right now and I can't order a refurbished one since Wacom would not ship to Romania :nohope: (Any chance you know a second hand store that would ship one?)

Thanks, guys

[emilpaun]

Well, the wait is over! Well not quite, I still can't use the phone, but the internet is up and running, and after fighting some really nasty viruses over the weekend, I finally can post!!!

I still haven't got the anatomy books I asked somebody to buy for me from Canada, the guy somehow seems to have forgotten that he had already "bought" the books, and never sent them to me, well I guess that's it :(

To start with, some bones
http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv20-001.jpg

http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv21-013.jpg

Some sketches
http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv20-002.jpg

http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv21-001.jpg

http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv21-002.jpg

http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv21-004.jpg

http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv21-008.jpg

http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv21-009.jpg

http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv21-011.jpg

http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv21-012.jpg

http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv21-007.jpg

Some quick doodles I did at work
http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv21-003.jpg

A photo-ref'd unfinished thing
http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv21-010.jpg

And my very first life drawings. These are some quick sketches of my girlfriend
http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv21-005.jpg

http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/nv21-006.jpg

The one that resembles her most is the top one in the last image.
Well that's all I have for now, more tomorrow :)

[emilpaun]

1st BIG MISTAKE. I tried to shade and add musclles way too soon. It is obvious that I can't handle proportions at all. So it's back to the basics: the manikin frame

http://www.emilpaun.dap.ro/ca/de27-001.jpg

[emilpaun]

whooa, lots of comments, huh?

I started celaning up this mess, as I have decided not to quit...

[emilpaun]

allright, lamenting ain't gonna do me no good. Hoewever frustration is real hard to beat, but what the heck, I might do this alone.

So updates (it's been so long)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/emilpaun/Scan10001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/emilpaun/Scan1.jpg

[emilpaun]

and a quick one

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/emilpaun/01-small.jpg

[emilpaun]

fresh, fresh, fresh!

another warhol-esque addition to my monologue:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/emilpaun/02-small.jpg

[NightVision]

Hey keep going man !

From may (when you started posting your sketches) till end of july there's really great progress !

Stuff from today seems more simple & less finished (I really liked those high contrast pieces you did a while ago), but it's pretty solid drawing (proportions, strategy, ...), must be thanks to your previous hard training :).
You know, some people are all flash, but fail on a second look (anatomy, perspective & all), but these I started to appreciate on the second look.

Hope to see you work your ass off like during the summer, and watch you progress !

[emilpaun]

NightVision - thanks, you have no idea how much I appreciate your kind words. Thanks again.
Things have changed a little since last summer, I have a lot less time nowadays, but I'm hoping to change that in a couple of months or so.
At the moment I am concentrating a lot on getting proportions right, so I won't be doing too many high-contrast sketches at the moment. When I feel more confident, I will move forward though.

These are the day's updates

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/emilpaun/Scan10005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/emilpaun/Scan10004.jpg

And some quick doodles while at work today. Ballpoint pen is great

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/emilpaun/Scan10003.jpg

[mos667]

Very nice work from start to finish, you are starting to pick up on the anatomy and form of the body. Love the new painter stuff, it is turning out very nicely. The most recent drawings of the girlies are looking nice. Keep it up man! (Try some value studies, by squinting your eyes and trying to sketch/paint the values, very fun :))

I'll be watching.

:perv:

[emilpaun]

Thanks mos...
whoooa, February, huh?
It's been a long time...
Anyway, here's my fresh start (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41969)
here, at CA.
I hope to be better than
this one ;)