A few questions - on various things.

[KeyHoles]

Okay, first of all I will appologise greatly if this has been posted in the wrong section, I was quite bamboozled by the amount of forums/subforums :D

Anywho, I am a new member, hoping to become an age old veteran in the future. My name is Lloyd, and I am currently studying my first year of 6th form, year 12 and am looking for universities situated around game design. In doing so, I found that the requirements ential me to have a portfolio of art, and as I have not taken art as an A level, this is going to be slightly difficult.

Could someone please direct me in the way I should be heading?
Where can I learn how to create concept art?
Will I be able to put together a art portfolio, with such inexperience? and still make it into those beloved universities?
How long would it take (on average) for me to pick up the skill (or nack) to concept art?
What type of things should I be looking to include within an art portfolio for game design courses at university?

I figured concept art is a huge part of game design, and volia! this place looks awesome. I hope to hear from you all soon ^^.

Oh, the courses I am currently enrolled upon in my sixth form are;
- Graphics Design
- Computing
- Information technology
- Business

Thank all of you for even reading this, some feedback and answers will be greatly appreciated.

Much love,
KeyHoles.

[Black Spot]

Bit late, but better late than never. It's going to take some hard work. Start to draw every day, even if you don't feel like it. Do some life drawing on a regular basis. Start a SB here, comment on others to get feed back on yours. Grow a thick skin. You need an understanding of the basics so you can utilize other artists in the future if art isn't your forte, so learn to critique objectively. The WIP/critique section is good for this, but I'd suggest lurking for a bit to not upset too many people. If you put work up for critique take it on the chin and think before believing anyone.

Art is fun, but hard work to learn. The more you put in the more you get out regardless of your objectives.

[JeffX99]

Hmmm...so much to say...concept art is a tiny fraction of any entertainment media production - video games, film, animation. The vast majority of visaul work is in production - modeling, texturing, lighting, FX, animation, etc.

In game design there are plenty of opportunities that are not art oriented (obviously): producers, designers, directors, programmers, etc. So don't think art is the only path.

I would ask the schools you are interested in what they want to see in a portfolio - they should be able to give you very specific requirements. I think you can't take this kind of thing casually - if you really want to be involved in the games industry you need to be immersed in what it is about - the schools expect that and the competition certainly will.

As far as how long?...Hard to say as that is individual - but typically a few years of hard study.

Good luck!

[KeyHoles]

Well the problem is, exams are just around the corner so I will focus mainly on them before grasping the art side of things. But I will be doing art as well.

See I figured if I show that I am attempting, and that I am determined it will show me in a good light as I will be forever getting better. The quality of my art does matter, so it's a major blow when something doesn't quite look as good as I intended it to be, in basic format I am a perfectionist - well like to see myself as one. I think I must understand that art is something you have to tame, before you can use it correctly.

I would very much appreciate it if you could suggest some arts I can do, some objects, concept art and so forth so I can start to go in the right direction.

Once again thank you for your help :)

[Black Spot]

Unis won't be expecting to find the finished article in you, just your potential and a reasonable level of competence. Always emphasis your strengths and do not underline your weaknesses.

[M-Kaibigan]

My story was very similar to yours. Was interested in game development, but also interested in concept art and 3D art.

Here's some advice that'll save your life: Game Development courses and Game Design courses that are good are few and far between. Wait... maybe I'm being too generous. They're all shit.

Do yourself a serious favour and enroll in Computing Science or Software Engineering, as I have. All the people I know in Game Design or Game Development courses (and all the people at Polycount) will tell you how bad they are. Many many many many a folk drop out because of the failings of the teachers. Everyone's heard of the common saying "If you can't do, you teach!". The teachers say it as a joke too but... unfortunately it's not a joke. Those that aren't successful in the industry will move to teaching... and boy do they teach badly! They show you techniques years outdated. There are some exceptions to this but not very many.

Once you graduate you'll have to do some serious mother-freaking study if you want to get up to date with the industry. You're wasting your time in a course that tries to tackle everything. SPECIALISE!!!! I've dealt with some of the lads at Realtime Worlds and few have come from Game oriented courses. They're all fresh brew from Comp Sci. and Fine Art.

The only benefit to a game course is that they can offer you compulsory work experience with several games development companies which can be enough to get things going in some cases. If your course doesn't offer this then do not sign up for it. Bear in mind that employers are just as happy to give work experience to Comp Sci and Software Engineering students... even more so.

Employers have said that they look for specialists not generalists. They don't want a vehicle artist that can also do character art and prop work... They don't want a programmer that can create music too... They want solid masters in each field! Not jack-of-all-trades Joe.

Since you don't appear to be from the Concept Art side of things, please... please... take my advice. Computing Science will land you a job much easier than Game Design. Industry professionals laugh at the naivety of some people whom enroll through those courses. The stock that come out are weakly trained and know little at all.

You'll get more help from http://boards.polycount.net/

They deal frequently with queries on Game Development, Game Design, Game Art, and etc.

You should enroll in Comp. Sci or Software Engineering whilst home studying on 3D art, Concept Art, and Game Design. There are many resources that will educate you better than the schools. Get a real degree and keep games development as a hobby. Do it in your spare time and you will learn more than the bullshit that the Uni courses have to offer. Join modding groups and indie game developers when you're in Uni. Start your own projects. Do everything yourself and you'll be much grateful in your future life.

Annnnnnd you can save me as a future contact. I will be active in the future and looking for hands on deck for some indie titles that are in the works. You'll learn a lot by my side, I promise!

But that'll have to wait until I can commit myself (I'm going through a dual degree at the moment, no spare time!).

Here are a few testimonials from some that have run the guantlet before you:


my experience with game degree schools (UAT) was paying to be bent over and raped of my money for two years.

game schools = paying to have people read you the books you bought for the class by past students who couldn't make it in the industry.

art schools = paying to be slapped around for two years while learning how to be a better artist.




I have a degree in game design, but when I graduated my skills weren't up to par so I never got a job. And since I focused so much on 3d, my fine art skills went down hill (but to be honest, I wasn't really the best to begin with). I soon realized that I pretty much backed myself into a corner. I have 3d skills, but not the best, so I can't get into a game company. I don't have the best 2d skills so I can't do graphic design or stuff like to pay the bills until I get a game job. So essentially, my degree is useless outside of the game industry. I would really like to go back to school and get a masters in fine art or architecture, but that is a long ways away.

So my advice would be, IF you can get skilled enough to get a job without going to school, DO IT. Otherwise, get the degree.

Also, work your ass off, because someone else out there is.



iv got a degree, but goddamn i regret wasting my time! if i had applied for a job when i instead applied for school i woulda been in a different world...ah...my kingdom for a timemachine!




I'm friends with black and actually go to the same school. Let me tell you, the teachers here are fkn monkeys. they don't motivate you, they don't inspire or any of that good stuff. they never worked in the industry ever. so thats why we feel like (at this school) we are wasting our money and time but god damm sooo frustrating and annoying. we basically learned what they know. yea.................

If you can find a good course, go for it. Just make sure you know the course is fucking sound before going. Don't take the University's word for it, ask past and current students! And it shouldn't be too late to change your choices now if you've already made them. Just tell them that you made a grave decision and need to change it before your entire life is fucked up. Hell, quote me to them or even show them this post!

[JeffX99]

Some good points there M - but not all accurate. IMO a person/student would have to be a fool to expect to learn something as complex as game design/production from someone who has never done it. Said person would also have to be a fool to expect a degree in such a dynamic field as game design to mean they could get a job. Some of the quotes are clearly from disgruntled people that have not put in the effort to be competitive...or were under the delusion that they just need to show up.

I think there are plenty of good schools offering solid programs for game design and production - but I definitely agree the prospective student needs to research and make sure they are getting what they expect.

One of the problems with game design programs is it is a very dynamic field - moreso than most. Platforms, software and tools change very rapidly - it is not reasonable to expect to go to school and be on the cutting edge of technology. What is reasonable is to expect to get a good idea of what the industry/career is about, what general processes and skills are required to be successful and what a person can do on their own to make themselves marketable.

Another factor is that in my experience, not only do platforms change frequently, technology, tools and production pathways change project to project and utilize custom proprietary tools.

Anyway, you make some good points about immersing yourself in what game design and production is all about...and that is what it takes, whether one goes to school or not.

[M-Kaibigan]

- Double post... Forum error not mine!!! -

[M-Kaibigan]

Yeah. You've managed to condense what I was trying to say in a more understandable format, minus the dramatic appeal. I was afraid my post would be taken badly/the wrong way ^- ^

My opinion is mostly subjective as the capabilities of Universities vary from region to region. I just know that my region is bad and others have told me similar stories hence I stand by my suggestion that he choose a different course. Most of the work you do needs to be self-study though... if not all. You can either be guaranteed a good education and good degree... or you can put all your chips on a risky bet that may not pay off!

[KeyHoles]

I appreciate your input, I really do but it doesn't all ring true.

The fact is, determination is the key to any success - however long it may take - nothing is impossible and so forth. I really like game design, I really like all the aspects of it; the concept art, the generation of ideas, the creating of the graphics, rendering etc. The list is endless, I love it. But I do honestly believe that a course that teaches you the basics in many different criteria is going to help me successfully get a job and give me a further insight.

I understand the whole teaching may be ood but their is still the determination and the understanding aspects that need to be taken into consideration. Nothing will gaurentee you a place anywhere, nothing will. And quite frankly I was very disappointed after reading your post. I understand you are trying to help, but game design is what I want to do. I believe enjoying your job is a far greater contributer to motivation and a better life than the pay.

I know it may be hard, and I know it may take time but there are other things I can do in the meanwhile. I will have a few decent A levels behind me, it's not asthough I have shoved all my eggs into one basket and hoped for the best. I have spread them about so there is others to rely on instead of just the one.