Questions about Light/Shadow, Color and Form

[Sidharth Chaturvedi]

I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this- I've been reading from Pyle's notes in particular that form is revealed in the shadow, especially through reflected light, and that importantly, color obtains in the light. I've also been taught this approach in my illustration classes at school, where we're told to keep the lights simple and to work up the reflected lights in the shadows to reveal form.

However, in my fine art classes, we're taught the exact opposite. Shadows are kept extremely simple and transparent, and all the modeling is done in the light side. Most of the bright colors are actually kept in the shadows with some teachers, like Zhaoming Wu. The simple shadows/modeled lights approach is one that I see a lot in classical drawing, and almost universally in current Atelier work.

So, I was just wondering if anyone could share some thoughts on the two approaches. I know that either one can be used depending on the painting, but why does it seem like some teachers consider one more correct than the other? Why is the latter one so prevalent in classical drawing? Any ideas on when it's appropriate to use one or the other?

[arenhaus]

Because they had been taught that one of the approaches is more correct than the other? Or just been trained in one so they do not trust the other?

Seriously, it's most likely a matter of tradition. Or, to put it less nicely, a habit.

I, personally, don't see an advantage or disadvantage to either of them. They both can be used successfully. I suppose you should ideally master both, so you can pick the one that fits each illustration job the best! :)

Likewise, you can successfully do away with shadows and use abstract forms or cartooning or stylized flat colors... there are many ways to compose things. For painterly play of light and shadow, however, all you need is a clear definition of both. A rule of thumb is that the lightest value in the shadow should be no brighter than the darkest value in the light. (I believe the same Pyle had conjectured that.) But the actual values can be anything. You can have very light, washed-out shadow, or a high-contrast picture with a great value gap between light and shadow, or low-key, gray light... whatever suits your goal.

[kev ferrara]

Pyle believed in simple shadows too. The form aspect of shadows is where the dark meets the light, not reflected light. ReadFred Fixler's notes for clarification, ( http://www.nasonart.com/writing/fixlerlessons.html ) as Fixler, through Riley, through Bridgman and Cornwell, through Dunn and DuMond, is really teaching Pyle's methods and the methods of the great schools of the era in France and Germany.

[Elwell]

Kev is exactly right. Pyle's main emphasis is on the separation of the light and shadow value ranges. Furthermore, what the value ranges and relationships are will depend on the lighting conditions.

[Sidharth Chaturvedi]

Thanks for the helpful answers, everyone, and especially for notes, Kev. I've actually read Fixler's notes before (probably on your suggestion), but I realize now that a lot of it bounced right off my head!

[JeffX99]

One thing I always try to keep in mind is that the shadows define the light - sort of the way wind is defined by stuff blowing (if that makes sense). The direction, intensity, color, diffusion, sources, etc. of light is actually defined more by the shadows (ok, color is a bit of both). I'm coming from more of a landscape tradition though, where light and shadow are on such a different scale, so it might be a bit different for figure and still life. Shadows of course also define form by either being a form/surface shadow or a cast shadow.

[George Abraham]

I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this- I've been reading from Pyle's notes in particular that form is revealed in the shadow, especially through reflected light, and that importantly, color obtains in the light. I've also been taught this approach in my illustration classes at school, where we're told to keep the lights simple and to work up the reflected lights in the shadows to reveal form.

However, in my fine art classes, we're taught the exact opposite. Shadows are kept extremely simple and transparent, and all the modeling is done in the light side. Most of the bright colors are actually kept in the shadows with some teachers, like Zhaoming Wu. The simple shadows/modeled lights approach is one that I see a lot in classical drawing, and almost universally in current Atelier work.

So, I was just wondering if anyone could share some thoughts on the two approaches. I know that either one can be used depending on the painting, but why does it seem like some teachers consider one more correct than the other? Why is the latter one so prevalent in classical drawing? Any ideas on when it's appropriate to use one or the other?


I read pyle's explanations over and over and it didn't make sense but eventually it incubated into him noticing mental contrast and the objectification the mind creates at any given moment depending on what you are looking at. Shadow and light are objectification and therefore mental contrast controllers in it's own, if you look closely though you will notice theres light everywhere, unless you cast a shadow on the moon, wich must be an awesome thing to witness, your shadows becomes black holes of nothing. Now Pyle just noticed the mental effect and the way you have to force things to hilight the facts you had in mind, making shadows more shadow like and the ellements of the light more to the like, that made him a master of desighn using altonation etc.

The shadow present's another environment that way. I think the art instruction you mentioned is limiting itself to one environment at a time, the lit side and then just reduce shadows to a blank. Lit, core and cast.. That's something for modeling I guess, but if you start looking at environments in total you have to look at it pyle's way for desighn.

[Meloncov]

In photography, depending on camera settings, you can get either result , either of which gives a certain mood. I see no reason why drawings and paintings should similarly be able to feature either.