'Critique not desired' - your opinions.

[LemonTwist]

I'm sorry if this has been posted before. I'm just wondering about concrit, and your ideas on the matter.

Like everyone else here, I love drawing and want to improve. I've found a very helpful group of friends who will give me constructive criticism, and aren't afraid of telling me how it is.

On the internet, sometimes this seems to be a problem - a few people aren't expecting criticisms at all, it seems, and prefer asspats. :assspank:

I just came from deviantart, actually, and plenty of people on there are very respectful and appreciative of concrit. There's so many, though, that aren't interested in hearing something negative about their work, no matter how small, and it's a little offputting.

What's your opinion on this matter? Should people be able to post art on an art website and expect no critique? Where is the line between constructive and completely negative/destructive criticism?

[WilliamFerris]

On the internet? I don't think it's just art that people are incredibly critical of... considering all the 12 year olds that argue on Youtube, I'd say feedback about art is one of the few areas you'll actually get feedback that helps you.

It's all about ego, really. It doesn't matter whether someone says something or not, it's how they perceive your work that's important. Better that they be out with it.

Looking back though, it is hard to take for most people.

[Elwell]

That's not an issue here.

[QueenGwenevere]

Ergh. Yeah. Of course, remember a large part of the DA population is under 18, so they're liable to be super-sensitive to criticism about anything and everything... (lord knows I went through my touchy teen phases...) And some are only 13 or 14 and need to be handled with kid gloves or they'll blow up.

I don't think there should be any expectations about posting art online - people post for so many reasons, sometimes to get feedback, sometimes to show off to their friends, sometimes just for the hell of it. (Of course, anyone posting stuff on DA and allowing comments is risking unwanted feedback - but that's their problem.) And DA is such a broad community... Some people are actually trying to learn and develop and would benefit from concrit, but some are just doing stuff as a hobby and are totally content with whatever amateur level they're at, so they're not going to care about concrit. And of course, some just have attitude and are best left alone.

My policy on DA is to give crits and suggestions only if I know someone actually wants them (like if they ask for advice in the artist's comments, or they're in a critique group, or have critique turned on, or I know them personally...)

On CA, on the other hand, I expect that everyone will be open to crit. ;)

[LemonTwist]

It's nice to know concrit is welcomed here. :) I'm sorry if this entire thread is baseless, then - my fault.

@Queen Gwenevere: I think the problem is that I'm never aware of who wants critique and who absolutely does not. I think about 8 out of 10 people do, so do I ignore those 2 who don't want it or stop giving it altogether? I think your way is the best - no arguments or hurt feelings. But when I hear someone who I've never talked to before actually appreciates the comments I wonder.

It's not necessarily DA I'm talking about, either. This happens irl to me too (and probably to everyone else) - I have a friend who has no problem giving me concrits, but when anyone says something negative he goes hugely on the defensive. It's a bit confusing to me, personally, but I guess I can understand the bulk of it: nobody wants to hear negative things about their art.

[WilliamFerris]

Crits or GTFO:donk:

:P

[LemonTwist]

Can and will do, WilliamFerris. :D

[Spudjuice]

For anyone who wants to improve, crit is a valuable tool. However, there are some situations where concrit is a bit inappropriate. For example, someone might post something they explicitly state or categorise as "junk" or "half-hearted doodle." You know - something they haven't put much effort into, but think it looks nice enough to post. There's not much reason to crit that.

That said, I never used to get crit on anything... I personally found it a bit disappointing!

[Kraus]

I'm not sure what i hate more someone asspatting me or someone who is not a professional giving me "concrit".

If i'm expecting critique i want to be sure i can trust the person sees things i don't and doesn't invent shit just to contribute something.
Sure there are critiques that i disregard off the bat cause i know/see better. But some are tough to grasp because i don't see what the hell they are talking about, but don't trust myself anough to disregard them. So i rather search out professional critique than 10 different critiques by those i think are proffessional just because they talk like they are on a forum.

But no, people that are here don't asspat each other in terms of art.

[JJacks]

If someone doesn't want critique, don't give it to them. It may not always mean they have large egos or they don't want to learn. The artist may already get feedback IRL or from other websites. Maybe they feel like they've already dealt with their artwork as much as they could. Whatever the reason, I always respect people's wishes when they ask me to hold my critique.

[Pigeonkill]

When critique aren't welcome let sleeping dogs lie. Some people just draw or paint casually so it's no big deal to them. Those who want to honestly push themselves will probably welcome the feedback, not avoid it.

[LemonTwist]

@ JJJacks and Spudjuice: I do agree, if someone puts that they don't want critique, it's a little rude to give one. I guess it's just those who put 'comments appreciated' or have the comments set to completely open, and later say they don't want any sort of crit that confuse me. Not wanting criticism doesn't necessarily equate big ego, I agree with that. Sometimes it's nice just to have a picture you drew for yourself.

@Kraus: well, of course you can just brush it off - it's definitely not mandatory to take it, and it's always up to you. :P Personally I appreciate any sort of feedback, but of course, I'm not a professional and I think any help is great! :D

[Two Listen]

I just let people do as they please. It's the internet, it might as well be a playground half the time.

Sometimes I'll get a crit, and I'll wish that the individual would've just kept it to themselves. Not everyone knows what in the hell they're talking about. But this is always going to be the case, and it's up to us to decide which crits we'll really try to work on and which we'll just say "Thanks" to and ignore.

...however.

That's still a person who took the time to say something about my stuff. Can't really be mad at someone for that.

[PuppyKitten]

I have been insecure about my artwork enough times to completely understand why someone might not want crits on a fresh painting (I tend to hesitate posting anything new until it is old enough to me that I don't feel so emotionally invested in it just in case the world hates it).

Completely banning all crits from your life is an irrational choice that will hinder your progress immensely. However: It is the artist's right to be irrational about his work if he chooses. He painted it, and his value system may not be the same as mine so I have no right to force criticisms.

[Zazerzs]

Welcome to the boards Lemontwist, post a link to your CA sketchbook in your sig and let the critiquing commence!
I believe most people who are on this site have a will to improve their work and are looking for help, tips and any critique that someone will offer them. I know that's what brought me here.
If I want an ass pat I can show my work to my Mom, she always says nice things.

[LemonTwist]

That's still a person who took the time to say something about my stuff. Can't really be mad at someone for that.

That's a wonderful way of looking at it. I admire that. :)

@ Zazerzs: Thank you for the welcome, you've made me want to post my stuff just that much more! I need to get my camera working asap.

Edit, here's the link for all who are interested: http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2668590#post2668590

[Tomaria]

Definitely agree with everyone here. Critique is a valuable thing, you can learn from it, but I can also understand why people would feel sensitive about it. But I'm here on CA to get crits about my work :), I want to improve (and new here too btw).

[Black Spot]

When looking through someone's SB I try to see where they've improved and where they fall short. It's not always straightforward, but I do my best to be fair and post comments that will help. Getting ass pats all the time is okay if the artist is perfect, but most of us fall far short. We also don't have to take every single critique as gospel. Delicate flowers need to grow a tougher skin if they're going to survive in the big, bad world, but when there are young kids and people just trying to learn I give them a lot of slack. Horses for courses rings true. Getting a bad crit can be ignored. Sometimes getting a crit that you're not ready for can also be ignored, but should be stored in the back of your mind for later. It all depends on what you want from here and what you want to learn and how you go about it that matters.

[Falchion]

I think my signature speaks for my views on critiques.

[Line]

First of all LemonTwist, welcome to CA, you'll like it here for many reasons I'm sure.

On to your post. Crits are probably the most important part of learning, and my problem is that I never get enough!!! And most of the time it's stuff like 'great work' or 'ooh that's nice' and stuff like that. Even when it's a crit about something that could be improved it's only about minor things. That's my only complaint, I don't get many rough critiques (masocist? :)) especially from artists who are better than me.

Oh except for a crit by Kev Ferrara. It's in my mind constantly and I always thank him for it. Thanks Kev.

In any case, here you'll find that people will accept your opinion and you will find people who will express their own. Again, welcome.

[Sascha Thau]

Hm, difficult.

If I would every time give a full on critique most would regard me as a very negative person. Because some artists tend to take everything personal and as long as I don't know this person, I don't want to get into their "zone". In the end I say nothing or asspat if the work is incredible in my eyes (seldom enough).

I'm not sure what i hate more someone asspatting me or someone who is not a professional giving me "concrit".

Professional or not, that doesn't matter much to me. Your eye can be trained as an amateur, too. And I've seen professionals that are literally blind to some things. You can't generalize this.

I think there is criticism and there is taste. Sometimes both are intertwined and this makes it sometimes difficult o get the ueseful things out of a crit. If I paint grass green, blue or yellow it belongs to my taste (as long as my color composition doesn't destroy my picture). If my anatomy is off or the Lighting is wrong, these are my shortcomings. I'm more inclinded to learn more about my shortcomings.

[Emerald_Mara85]

Err...welcome? Haha I probably shouldn't said that since I didn't come here for a realllllyyy long time...

Err, well...yes its all about ego.
But is it all about say 13 or 14 years old brats saying they don't want stuff like that?

Nah, cause a few years back...I know this person who was above 18 years old basically defending his sister's art and saying that I don't have a license to comment or critique art. And he wasn't even involve with art whatsoever.

Oh well, there are just people who do that.

Best to ignore these kind of people.
They wanna be like that, let 'em. Their loss.
Just focus on your art and the people who do want the critiques.

GO ART POWER!!!

[RickyS]

I think it depends on the reason the person has for uploading their art. You have to consider a lot of the artists who do not want Crits from DeviantArt are young anime fans or general artists who just want to show their work off to their friends (or get asspats from random people). Most of them will either continue what they're doing, give up art evenutally or in rare cases convert to a being a serious artist (like me!). Either way if they have no intention of improving or getting a critique, then simply don't give it to them.

On the other hand if it is someone who is asking for a critique or posting on a serious art forum like CA, I think people should be able to be make honest critiues. It might be harsh to get told you are doing something wrong or your art is terrible, but you have to suck it up and take the advice for what it's worth. Usually the harshest comments are the most useful. :)

The only destructive criticism I see is if someone tells an artist they fail, they should give up art or they the critic has no reasons behind their negative criticism. Comments like those should just be ignored because they are BS. It's funny because I noticed everyone who told me this couldn't even draw, so now I just laugh at them and move on because they are the ones who fail at art, not me. :P I find real artists are actually helpful and encouraging, even if they don't seem like nice people. Anyways, this is just my opinion, but I hope you enjoy CA and remember to spread the love. :)

[Armonah]

When criticism isn't appropriate:
- When a piece is personal
- When a piece is very old
- When the artist made it clear s/he doesn't want criticism (either on a particular piece of art or in general).

Not everyone wants to get criticized, and not everyone really feels the need to be the best artist they can be. Some people make art just for fun, and are content with what they're doing right now. If you're a professional, this attitude might bite you in the ass some day, but if it's just a hobby, there's very little harm in it. Either way, it's their call.

Destructive criticism is the type that gives false feedback or does nothing but demoralize the artist. They're worse than the type of critique that doesn't give feedback at all ("Awesome!" "This is great" "Nice!") because at least they don't make things worse.

[JeffX99]

"Critique not desired"? Unfortunate - let them flail. I offer quite a lot of critique here and I always ask myself, "Will this help this person?". Sometimes I offer technical critique, sometimes philosophical critique and sometimes it isn't critique at all, an attempt to point out that their inexperience and lack of awareness is blocking their development, leading them astray and those to whom they offer advice.

One rule I have is I try to never off critique beyond my own ability, unless that critique is specifically requested. I also try to approach critique humbly, knowing my own abilities are quite poor in relation to the larger scheme of things.

[AlexEh]

I enjoy getting asspats hah, makes me feel like I'm on the right track if nothing else. I think I value an asspat just as much as a crit honestly. Though when someones seriously crits me hard I realllllly apreciate that. That takes alot of time.

As for other people that may just post ther art online to get attention. I don't really see anythign wrong with it. Personally I would just not really give them attention, as it doesnt really interest me.

[Kraus]

Hmm, on the other hand it depends.. Creativity and imagination can be showcased regardless of the skill level. There is a certain point in the lives of artists at which they deviate from replicating anime characters they love in highschool (like someone above did). At that point their creativity is more or less developed anough to express themselves with their own vision not necessarily their own style.
It is understandable that they express their vision while their skill develops because they know it will develop as a matter of time, and simply want to showcase a preview of what's to come when their skill gets there. They might not need critiques at that particular moment.