skull and bones

[Android]

please take a moment to watch this video and learn

http://www.infowars.com/print/Secret_societies/alex_vid_kbsab.htm

[AnarchyAo2]

Wow...The plot is ingenius. I really don't know how to respond. I always thought Bush was a complete dickhead but I never knew that he was trying to turn a country into something else. I mean, what that guy says all makes sense, It fills in all the blanks. With Bush's story it doesn't make any sense and if it doesn't make sense its probably a lie. This may sound superficial, and ignorant. But, juding by his face, hes an evil man. Even the way he laughs. This may also sound stupid. But, you know in Drawing from the Right Side of your Brain, it says that you never don't know how people really look because of the influence your left side has? Well, I think the same thing applys here. I looked at Bush's face with my right side, and I saw the smile, I saw him for what he really is. It pisses me off. If he enforces a draft, I'm moving to canada. I'll be damned if I'm going to risk my life for his tyranny.

BTW. I think you just gave me a good topic for my english report. I wonder what the teacher will think about George Bush, John Kerry and Skulls and Bones. Thanks Android for the englightnment and for the inspiration.

** Okay, what i just said was spur of the moment. I'm not sure if I believe it all. I'm still very sketpical about it. It does make sense, but I'll keep an open mind about both sides of the story.

Though, please, the video is long, but well worth it. Its important to keep an open mind and at least listen.

[Skank]

i watched it here at work, some interesting stuff.

people scoff at the illuminati and freemason conspiricy theories and whatnot, but alot of this crap is true...

anyway...thanks for sharing android, was an interesting watch

[malicious]

i'm watching the video right now. i can't say i'm a fan of mister bush, nor can i say i've been enthusiastic about the upcoming election at any point. however, thus far, the only accusations against bush or kerry have regarded their religious practices. in a country where religious freedom has historically been touted as one of the most important civil liberties, this should not matter. and we are free to worship as we please, as long as we're christian.

disclaimer:stop. i'm not disparraging christians. i am a non-practicing christian myself. i do not intend to make this about religion.

anyway, the only people that would gasp in shock-horror about bush and kerry practicing specifically nonchristian worship are, you guessed it, christians. so. i, personally, don't particularly care about their religion. getting to the point- what i do care about, is that they both aparently belong to this cloak and dagger Order of Death.

i'm sure it's utterly impossible to find objective information regarding this organization. frankly the conspiracy theorists bother me. the information they present is so slanted that it's virtually useless. i guess i can glean some information from all this.

as i have said, if bush and kerry are infact both members of this organization, yes, that bothers me. if the members of this organization do, in fact, participate in religious practices so obviously in conflict with their publicized religious views, i have to question what else they don't talk about. hell i questioned what bush wasn't telling us before i saw this. my opinion hasn't changed. we're screwed.

[nick reynolds]

:evilbat: :evilbat: I love this information, it's so great. :evilbat: :evilbat:

[Devilock138]

Every empire since Babylon to Rome to more recent history all ends with the same result. Its an open system of decay; things don't get better, they get progressively worse. That being said, how can you dispute it? I've always believed it. And that was an excellent documentary.

Originally posted by malicious

i'm sure it's utterly impossible to find objective information regarding this organization. frankly the conspiracy theorists bother me. the information they present is so slanted that it's virtually useless. i guess i can glean some information from all this.

Video tape and hard documentation know no bias.

[mtw]

Originally posted by Devilock138
Video tape and hard documentation know no bias.
A professor showed me a picture of an old man and a young woman at a bar. I don't remember the original intent of the photograph, but it was later used for two different messages. One was about prostitution, and the other was the affects of alocohol on judgement. The original photographer had only told the two people to sit like that, and they didn't know each other.

There's another photograph of a women with children who look like they're homeless. It was later revealed that the photographer set them up.

[Jan]

Could not download the clip,but had a view at the page.It's interesting,but i don't like the page.They use very dramatic speech to boost it all up,that gives only a cheep look.At the "order out of chaos" paul joseph watson claims that many of the 911 hijackers are still alive.
As far as i know,at the end of last year only 3 of them had been identified by DNA-tests.But this doesn't proof that the others are alive.There are lot of details that look very strange(no photos from airport,m.attas passport was found near wtc),but it does not proof that the hijackers are alive.
if s.o. is interested in this,he/she should have a look at various sites,some just like to make a show out of it,for what reason ever.
i think that both kerry and bush are members(my last thread was about this) makes even a 2-party-democracy shrink.
I agree with malicious,that even a president shouldnt be discriminated for his religion.If it's a religion that respects such things as human rights.
It's not known if S&B claims secretly to be a religion.No idea.Only 15 people from yale-university join them each year-they are a point where a structure is visible now,a good 1.5 centurys old at least,some kind of money-aristocracy.

[mtw]

It's easy to come up with a conspiracy theory about lots of things. It's also common to see people who do come up with these things selling books and videos.

[Skank]

ya
you definately hafta take alot of this with a grain of salt, but its definately interesting

[mtw]

I'll bet most people who believe in conspiracy theories never actually research the topics themselves. They only listen to some "preacher" and take his words for it. Then people keep basing their theories and previous conspiracy theories, and it just keeps adding up. People still believe in bigfoot even though when the first video taper of it died and his family revealed that it was a prank.

Here's a funny story about a conspiracy theorist I heard from someone else:

I actually knew one hardcore conspiracy theorist when I was in college (the second time). He droned on and on about all kinds of rather silly things, like Hitler is alive and well in Argentina, and had some medical work done to de-age him. I enjoyed the humor of his ideas, but when he started coming to my dorm room daily to report the latest "true fact", I had to concoct some way to get rid of him.
One evening he stopped by with another load of crap, and I asked him if he noticed he was being followed. I asked him to watch who he visits, lest "they" know who is "in" on all of the "true facts".

That dropped his visits to weekly, and at odd hours of the night.

I then told him to watch out, since "they" must have someone "inside" who is keeping tabs on him. I had followed him that day and noted which dining hall he went to, what classes and what he bought at the bookstore. I recounted this to him, which made his eyes bug out. I thanked him for letting "us" know about what he knew, then turned off a tape recorder I had in a drawer.

He never bothered me again. I did see him twice in the engineering quad, but he turned and ran. I'm sure I lost a few karma points, but it was worth it.

[Devilock138]

"Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get me."

I love history.

The majority of people believed the Earth was flat.
The majority of people thought flies grew from meat.
The majority of people don't question their governments.
The majority of people aren't that bright.
The majority of people believe whatever is easiest to believe.

In Rome an elite class ran the government.

In the Nazi Reich an elite class ran the government.

In Babylon, Persia, Greece, the Soviet Union... an elite class closely associated has ALWAYS run the government.

And I'll guarantee you the majority of people don't know enough history to put the pieces together. To me, that's not paranoia. Its an unfortunate fact. Either we see it or we don't. Either way we live with it.

[epiphany]

haha good one mtw

[AnarchyAo2]

You know theres something bad going on inside of Skull and Bones. If there wasn't then Bush and Kerry would be happy to tell us about it. And what "Christian" joins a org named Skull and Bones? Even the name would give priests the chills.

[stalecracker]

uhm... Did you just hear a click?

[gasmask]

this stuff is garbage

[The TODDLER]

Gasmask i think you are right on this one. Im a Canadian and i think Bush is the best president theres been for some time. He says what hes going to do, and he does what he says. That video is almost the stupidist thing. And anyone thats going to base the way they feel about there government on some guy that knows how to talk into a camera and post it on the web, is just as bad as the people making these lies up.
Iraq is free, be happy for them. we take it for granted.

[STiCKy]

heres some info on Skull and Bones (dont know how true it is)

http://www.parascope.com/articles/0997/skullbones.htm


This video is pretty scary, even though its debatable how true it is.

[Skank]

i swear to god android loves fuckin with us all by posting this stuff...
lol

[MGH]

For some reason I can't play the video. Is that the CIA screwing with my computer again? Or is it the Free Masons? It's still dark here, so I can't see the black helicopters which I'm sure are hovering above my house right now....
If you want some REAL attempts at a police (or is that religious?) state, try this:
http://www.paknews.com/articles/sep98/art4sep-03.html

[AnarchyAo2]

Bush is taking away our rights. Did you know that if you buy/check out a book on serial killers then you get on the FBI's watch list. Isn't that an invasion of privacy? I think so.

BTW, if Iraq is so free, then why are we still occuping it? Why were there no weapons found? Why are americans political leaders in iraq? You know, things aren't matching up here. What that guy said was pretty radical, and hard to believe. I really don't care if they're satanists or christians, I don't really care for either. I mean, you don't go to war because you have a hunch that weapons may be there. And, did he really have to go to war? Saddam let weapons inspectors into the country. And they didnt find anything! So, if he wasn't going to listen to the weapons inspectors in the first place, why did he send them? So that:
1) Saddam would denie them entrance and Bush has spark to light up a war.
2) The weapons inspectors would report the "capibility" of making weapons. And another reason to start the war.

What other choice did he have? He said he didn't have them, no one found them. Hmm, where did the bombs go? Maybe we should tear apart the whole middle east because Big Dadda America wants his rifle back from Lil Boy Iraq.

[stalecracker]

HOLEE cow....

O.K.- First of all, BUSH is NOT responsible for the tracking of books from the library or book stores... THat has been going on for quite awhile and WHO GIVES A CRAP?!? I buy books about Serial Killer and stuff and , guess what? If the cops showed up TOMORROW and said... "Hey, you've been buying an AWFUL lot of Serial Killer books and we happen to have a Serial Killer on the loose in the area so we'd like to talk to you." Well, they are DOING THEIR JOB and I'd answer their questions because I have done nothing wrong. Tracking purchases is, in MY opinion, NOT an invasion of privacy... it's a tool for investigation/marketing/ whatever. I firmly believe if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. YES, you can be framed but I'd LOVE to see legitimate statististics on how many people incarcerated are truly, I mean TRULY, innocent and were framed.

As for this dribble of info...

BTW, if Iraq is so free, then why are we still occuping it? Why were there no weapons found? Why are americans political leaders in iraq? You know, things aren't matching up here. What that guy said was pretty radical, and hard to believe. I really don't care if they're satanists or christians, I don't really care for either. I mean, you don't go to war because you have a hunch that weapons may be there. And, did he really have to go to war? Saddam let weapons inspectors into the country. And they didnt find anything! So, if he wasn't going to listen to the weapons inspectors in the first place, why did he send them? So that:

Yeah, Saddam wasn't a danger. PLEASE... you have NO idea what you're talking about. You are truly the liberal medias supplicant... And no WMD's? Well, the only thing that bothers me about that is this... Just about EVERY politician during Clintons terms agreed that Saddam was a threat. Kerry, Edwards, DEAN and that lying two faced General whose name escapes me... NOW, that election day draws near... Even FRIKKIN Gore is doubling back on everything they/he said just 5-6 years ago. Is that being fairly reported? Of course not... As a matter of fact... ALL of the info was available to the Democrats AND Republicans and support from KEY people in both parties was there. Crap, even Kerry thought it was a good idea. But that's not what he says now...

FINALLY- Your last statement there... You sound like the type who would BITCH about the U.S. getting involved in WW2 because "Come on 2 million or 5 million... which IS it Mr. President. And seriously... you DID know Pearl Harbor was going to happen DIDN'T you? I mean... how else could youy get us into the war? It's a conspiracy!!!"


I also, on a side note, watched that whole Skull and Bones video and thought 2 things...

1) You sneak into the Bohemian Grove to record a secret gathering of the most powerful people in the world and you bring along a P.O.S. hand held AND you never once think to ZOOM in on the Hooded yet faces exposed people?
Nice Journalism there, Scooter.

2) THe narrators BLATANT spin on what was being said in the Russert/Bush interview. *paraphrased* "Now watch as Bush says "It's so secret we can't talk about it." Right on NATIONAL T.V.!!! Holy COW... Can you believe it?!?" Then you SEE the footage and Bush's response could NOT be more tongue in cheek...

The WHOLE Illumanti rules the world theory is a load of HORSE shit.

*crap* gotta go to my meeting at the SnB...

(Did I say that outloud?)

[The TODDLER]

Iraq is free becuase the dictator that used to be in power is gone, the same man that slaughtered hundreds of thousands of his own people used fear and torture and WMB's (1989)to keep hold of his power and did not cooperate with the world society by trying to make it a better place.
His people were starving and he lived in a dozen palaces.
Hans Blix was the UN inspector that went in to Iraq but Suddam's henchman stopped him at every corner. Theres many forums about these topics on non art websites. we should keep them there.
If Suddam was so innocent and didnt have any weopons than why didnt he cooperate?
He miss judjed the US by not thinking they would take the country over and he was wrong. Suddam had his chance for twelve years and he never took it. He is a Dictator. Theyre all the same.

[MGH]

These conspiracy theory rants are at least good for a chuckle.
Hey....what....my coffee is talking to me! 'T-i-m--H-o-r-t-o-n--G-O-O-D------S-t-a-r-b-u-c-k-s--B-A-D-------'

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by stalecracker
I firmly believe if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

Heh. Belief in the system is naive.

[AnarchyAo2]

stalecracker - I give a crap. They shouldn't be getting involved with civilian's lives like that. Our country is all about freedom and they don't need to keep records of what serial killer books I check out.

Also, I hate it when people give bullshit excuses like "Im just doing my job!". Well, you represent your company and your human so if you don't like what the hell your doing then quit. Jesus, people act like jobs are moral shields.

Anyway, just because your have nothing to hide, doesn't mean you want someone searching your house and interragting you just because you read a book.

"Yeah, Saddam wasn't a danger. PLEASE... you have NO idea what you're talking about. You are truly the liberal medias supplicant"

I'd love to hear where you get your information. I mean, since you have all the facts.


"FINALLY- Your last statement there... You sound like the type who would BITCH about the U.S. getting involved in WW2 because "Come on 2 million or 5 million... which IS it Mr. President. And seriously... you DID know Pearl Harbor was going to happen DIDN'T you? I mean... how else could youy get us into the war? It's a conspiracy!!!" "

You sound like the type that think if you see an apple and smell a orange you "know" its an apple. You catch what I'm saying?

[Grooveholmes]

Hah hah, Infowars..

we get good ol' Alex Jones here occasionaly.:chug:

[Constrator]

Those who laugh off this sort of topic simply as conspiracy theory have another thing coming. The world is run under conspiracies - it's ingenous! Yes, study history - that is if it's unbiased. What's happening now is that more mainstream people here in the US are catching on with what's coming out of the White House. One way or another it's going to affect us all - count on it.

Ed--

[cucaracha]

THE END IS NIGH

http://www.tulsawalk.com/parks-places/tulsa/trekexpo99/johndelancie-Q-02.jpg


no, seriously, I think this guy tries to make money eh?

Those conspiracy theories seem to be very popular in the US.
Read "Foucalt's Pendulum" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345368754/qid=1076618497//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-6990494-6776004?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

- if you like really good entertainment.
or the classical one. Illuminatus!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0440539811/qid=1076618550/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-6990494-6776004

cu

[Jan]

Obvious S&B does exist.I don't understand those who say it's not o.k. to be interested in it.No one (exept those involved)) really knows what they are doing.Both Candidates are members-and it's only a small organisation.While "the eye" over normal citizens is growing(haha-sounds crazy-eh),presidential candidates should not be asked,please.
I've already said i don't like that side-in the article "the skull and bones of george bush and john kerry" by jim moore(it's on the link first in this thread),j.moore writes writes that S&B has existed in germany and was called "brotherhood of death" there.
Would be interesting if he has any sources for this.Up to know there just has been speculation about german roots,and "brotherhood of death" was some kind of nickname.
I think the mainstream-media-archieve on that site is best.
It's not really S&B,but i think it fits the thread:

http://www.wtc7.net/index.html
http://www.drewhendricks.freeservers.com/world.htm
to read something about kerry,googling for "the big dig+kerry+boston" could be interesting.

[sparth]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/02/60minutes/main576332.shtml

[J Bradford]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0192614/

:rofl:

[Devilock138]

http://www.ctrl.org/boodleboys/boodlemembersalpha.htm

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/3/skullroster.htm

Think of a name and pick it out...

Buritt, Edwin A. {Burrt} 1915
Bush Derek C. 1967
Bush, President George Herbert Walker 1948
Bush, Governor George Walker 1968

Kernochan Joseph Frederic 1863 1863
Kerr Albert Boardman 1897 1897
Kerry (D-Mass.), Senator John Forbes 1966
Ketcham Henry Holman 1914 1914

[John]

I can't say that i really like bush, and i don't think iraq is a free country now... but that video tape is stupid. No, really, what's up with this guy?
"Are you a member of skull and bones?"
-"It's so secret i can't talk about it."
...now that's the answer any college kid would give. Quite fun i think too. And the "I haven't seen the [whatever] yet" came across quite nice too. Did you understand webpages there? Well, i didn't. And if it was, then so what? And even if he wasn't referring to stupid "area 51" x-files sites, then he was making fun of the stupid infowars site. Makes him more credible in my opinion.
I think bush was rather fun to watch and he actually gained respect from me for being quite smart in answering these stereotype questions. The editing on the video was terrible and that guy talking to the camera like a speed seducer on crack... dude... i think god kills a kitten for every syllable he utters.
Bottom line: anyone who seriously believes in conspiracy theories didn't get enough attention as a child. Or in highschool :D

[mcotie]

Hey Wait, what the heck is wrong with Druidic rituals?

[MGH]

I don't know what it's like at yer average American college or university, but I'm not really shocked at these little 'secret' societies. These kind of sub-groups exist in many institutions and always have. Up here the Canadian Army's Airborne Regiment had a group called the 'Rebels' within their ranks whose exploits among others eventually led to the Regiment's demise (it was an accident waiting to happen anyway).

[Jan]

http://freedomdomain.com/skullbones.html
just a silly thought:maybe it was a moderate idea to let a bonesman investigate BCCI.

[wallychairmover]

aww c'mon you can't just post this with a dramatic line of text and not jump in yourself mr. android, what exactly is supposed to be learned from a single website other than those peoples' opinions? i think you're in a secret society that controls the eb and flow of topicry in art forums, little do these excited participants realise they are part of a larger more important study. you are all sheep! don't let the propoganda machine of anyone control you! FREEDOM OR FREE NACHOS!!

[MGH]

Go Wally Go!

[AnarchyAo2]

Android....is this true?

[winjer]

I dunno about any of this skull and bones stuff but isnt it wierd that we had a father and son as president? Its like a monarchy.

[Android]

what would we do if it was the truth. ?

what would you do?

[jwo]

live my life, eat taco's, draw, and die.
the american way

[wallychairmover]

I...I would DANCE!! *winds up gramaphone, plays manowar's "sting of the bumblebee"*

honestly I don't think the time for revolution is upon us, so I would say form a secret society that studies them, and/or other secret societies until we are prepared to make our move. bringing about another secret society who will add us to their watchdog list as well, and so on. don't worry folks, i know when the greys come to earth and reveal themselves as the true bloodline of christ all will be understood.

[Redder]

Interesting, a question answered by a question. Doesn't that mean the person has something to hide?

[Jan]

Still cannot see the videos on the alex-jones-site Android has linked.
Here's a link to the video-sparth had already a link to the text
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5244.htm
To my little BCCI-thought i cannot say so much-i was just googling around and readed that the BCCI-report also is called Kerry-report.Here's a article(maybe they like bush more than kerry)http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1072559/posts
In a normal case if the investigator would be in a relatioship to s.o. suspected having done a crime,this would be odd.
Here a link with BCCI-information
http://www.the-catbird-seat.net/BCCI.htm
Here a link with crits on Kerrys report(they like bush)http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/2/2/221052.shtml

~m-m-m-mindwashing_microchip_is_in_china~mr.jones&his_marsian_laundromat...i understand at best half what he says(on http://veritastruth.holyconspiracy.com/dontlook.htm),he's so fast,i'm german,but it sounds funny.

[gasmask]

bush being in a cult or not means nothing, it doesnt matter either way, its not like it will effect anything, besides if bush did anything drastic or crazy he would get kicked out of office, and i know everyones thinking it so ill just say it, i do not think hes the anti christ.

[klid]

http://afgen.com/trilateral.html

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by gasmask
...besides if bush did anything drastic or crazy he would get kicked out of office...

You mean like starting a war to go after a crazy man and his bacteria ridden tin foil? Couldn't be the 4 trillion dollars of oil. North Korea is under a hereditary rule, making public and active attempts at nuclear arms and is ready for a fight... but he invadees the country where he was gambling that they might have something (and shouldn't he know? After all, the chemical weapons Saddam used against the Kurds back in '89 had 'Made by the CIA' written on them).

Meanwhile, my cousins have their asses in Bagdad policing a population of bastards that hate him. Fortunately my dad, a Vietnam Vet (Green Beret) broke the cycle of every man in the family believing mindlessly in the authority or trust of the government.

Okay, so I'm getting off on a rant. Vietnam and Iraq have NOTHING to do with each other. The warfare is different, but at its intermediate point its leading down th same road: an occupation of a country that is not only hostile, but born and taught hostility to outsiders. The fact that, in Vietnam it was communism rather then religion as the driving force of mind control and hatred has little to do with the actual physics of the mechanism.

Bottom line: anyone who seriously believes in conspiracy theories didn't get enough attention as a child. Or in highschool.

In 1964 anyone who believed Oswald didn't kill Kennedy and that LBJ was involved was labelled a conspiracy theory nut.

In something like 1984 the administration stated that it was probably NOT a lone gunman (not just Oswald).

In 1992 the Freedom of Information on Assassinations act was passed due to the movie JFK (oliver Stone).

On the last anniversary of his death (Kennedy) a bunch of tapes had been released to News organizations of LBJ's conversations. Some of the news organizations even pointed unashemdly that LBJ was proably involved because of the money to be had (Con Ron bay springs to mind). Even that he *staged* attacks on paper to get drawn further into the war. It also became widely asserted that Oswald might not have done it. That's 2003.

So over the past 40 years everything about Kennedy has slowly changed, but in a way to appear like information is being forced out about it. Slowly, but surely, the administration is turning around on everything it said in 1963. Before you know it, ina few more years, it'll be just like Jim Garrison said it was back in '65.

The word conspiracy wouldn't exist without conspiracy existing. Its naive to believe what the people who control the information and have the power will say.

That's exactly why a government will classify something like that. Because by the time everyone figures it out, all the ones responsibe will be gone, all the new voters won't care and a nation will be numb to it. It'll be as ancient history; an unfortunate chapter in a nation's past. But no one will really care anymore.

[JoshuaTheJames]

If this is true...Which wouldn't surprise me...

Then this is the scariest thing I ever seen.

and if it is true...Go Muslims.

-Joshua

[HugeHarHar]

First off everyone, the real meaning of satanism is not the worship of Lucifer or Satan or whatever, it's the belief that you, the satanist, think that you are God. Take it like this, Lucifer wanted to overthrow God. He was so into himself and he believed so much that he was more powerful than God he was thrown out of Heaven. Satanism is called satanism because it's based on the fact that satan believed he could rule it all.

So that right there is just one example that the guy in the documentary is an idiot. He researched what he wanted to prove. Not everything. And that is called slanting of information. And yes I'm sure Bush and Kerry are both in Skull and Bones. But honestly, that's just like going to church. It's something they do and somewhere they go to.

This guy and the documentary used the same "evil" tactics that he says Bush and Kerry use. Honestly, there are no mass murders, rapings, gangbangs, orgies, mass suicides, or anything going on. He uses peices of information to "reveal" what he wants.

So you can fall under this guys obvious crap, or you can think for yourself.

[JoshuaTheJames]

Or YOU can admitt that you know as little as the next guy and realize their is no harm in considering it.

-Joshua

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by HugeHarHar
First off everyone, the real meaning of satanism is not the worship of Lucifer or Satan or whatever, it's the belief that you, the satanist, think that you are God. Take it like this, Lucifer wanted to overthrow God. He was so into himself and he believed so much that he was more powerful than God he was thrown out of Heaven. Satanism is called satanism because it's based on the fact that satan believed he could rule it all.

That's relative. I had two friends in school who were Devilworshipers (literally, I mean the symbols, the chants, all that spell-casting stuff) and through them I got to see into a very dim subculture.

This is what was meant in the literal sense:

Molech from Baal, Baal was a direct manifestation (in the physical sense when the Caananites began the worship) of Satan. So in a direct, literal sense you are a Satan worshiper by worshiping Molech.

What you describe as a Satanist sounds just like a Humanist (pantheism, that life sprang from dirt, such and such ancient religions). You described only one aspect of Satanism; the indirect 'do what you feel' philosophy when there is a whole other side involving submission and all worship and what not. And although they may vary slightly, the idea is the same: that we live and die and are nothing but rotting flesh afterwards. So during life don't get pushed around, raze your enemies and rule supreme. No... nothing harmful at all when people in positions of power have that belief. Humanism, and Satanism are basically the same thing. The words are a little rearranged, but, at its root, they're hand in hand.

When men in power don't value human life you get government sponsered terrorism:
http://emperors-clothes.com/images/north-ii.htm

Humanist in power also looooove to say the world suffers from overpopulation (a myth, of course: "If the entire population of the world were put into the land area of Texas, each person would have an area equal to the floor space of a typical U.S. home and the population density of Texas would be about the same as Paris, France."):
http://www.population-security.org/11-CH3.html

Oh, yeah, they love drafting people... document from 2003:
http://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/government/reinstate-draft.htm

So humanist or satanworshiper... same effect.

[JoshuaTheJames]

Originally posted by HugeHarHar
First off everyone, the real meaning of satanism is not the worship of Lucifer or Satan or whatever, it's the belief that you, the satanist, think that you are God.

Slightly relative.

Sheesh...Woow for a second there I thought they were just worshiping Satan. BUT NO! They actually think they are Gods! ...

Thanks for clearing that up..That's MUuch better.

:rolleyes: :bash:

-Joshua

[HugeHarHar]

My point in the satanism thing wasn't to start on about how they think they are gods or whatever, it was to prove that the guy in the dpcumentary was using hear say information and slanting all of his information, leaving some out, completly mistaking some, and so forth and so on. Honestly I don't believe that religion has a very large part in any of this topic unless it's taken the wrong way or taken to the extreme. And well, the documentary guy took it the wrong way but just using words that helped make his twisted point.

[Devilock138]

Every great empire ended with the dispositions of leaders. Every empire (basically, every empire that has risen to a dominate world power and fallen in the past six thousand years) will, inevitably, bow to a minority ruling class. Its history. Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Nazi Germany, the Papacy... they all began with the purpose of restoring/organizing/economizing, but all of them came under the rulership of a *cultist* minority prior to falling. Its not paranoia or conspiracy, its history. No nation stands. Time will destroy them. It doesn't matter if people 'wake up' or fight legistlation or take the red pill or whatever. The wheels of history supercede any government. Do you believe that the US or the UN will be around for the next hundred years? At some point a briefcase is going to make a cloud of smoke in a city or a militant will set off a nuke... you know the Clock (http://www.thebulletin.org/clock.html) that was set 12 minutes before midnight in 1963:

"2002 | Seven minutes to midnight
Little progress is made on global nuclear disarmament. The United States rejects a series of arms control treaties and announces it will withdraw from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty. Terrorists seek to acquire and use nuclear and biological weapons."

Its not fear or paranoia. Its just a matter of time and there's nothing that anyone can do but either know it or deny it. Either way, you can't stop it. Every empire falls and this is just those wheels turning as a new series of events begins in history.

[winjer]

Everyone who hasnt read it yet go read watchmen. RIGHT NOW

[Jan]

A.Robbins interview
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0122-10.htm

[JoshuaTheJames]

Originally posted by winjer
Everyone who hasnt read it yet go read watchmen. RIGHT NOW

Good Idea...

I have been wanting to read that. Thanks for the reminder!

-Joshua

[Devilock138]

http://www.familyforest.com/Kerry_Bush_Cousins.html

Presidential relations in S&B:

Bush George Walker 1968
Kerry John Forbes 1966
Bush George Herbert Walker 1948
Taft William Howard 1878
Hayes Rutherford B. (Co-founder Skull & Bones)

Personally, I do take things with a grain of salt, so make of it what you will. But as I was saying about humanists: They're all related to the Huxleys and no less then Charles Darwin; both familes (I mean... both sides of the SAME family) come from an origination of pantheism. When Darwin published his Origin of the Species in 1859, Karl Marx wrote a letter to Fredrick Engels in which he said: ‘. . this is the book which contains the basis in natural history for our view . .’

Its how Ernst Haekel (sp?) stopped the church in Germany from teaching that the meek will inherit; he said it would be 'racial suicide' and in his manifesto (someone find that, I can't remember how to spell it in German) he talked about the master race and survival of the fittest. Before Hitler came along you had Hegal, Comte, Neitzsche, Bernhardi and significantly, prior of these was Haekel.

So why am I addressing this?

Because of something called the Earth Charter. Here's a quote: "Earth, each life form, and all living beings possess intrinsic value and warrant respect independently of their utilitarian value to humanity." If you go through and look at the landscape of the UN document its basically saying that humans and animals have the same values, rights and morals. Who else believed this? The Nazis. Nero. Rome. Molech is a derivation of death and rebirth such as Baal or the Celtic Mother Goddes and such; Pantheism. And with Pantheism you have the Humanist who are anthropocentrics (me first).

Sept 20, 2002: "President George W. Bush announced to the United Nations General Assembly last week that the United States will rejoin the U.N. Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) after an 18-year absence. The announcement made few headlines, but at UNESCO headquarters in Paris it's the best news in years." Wait a minute, didn't Paris just ban all religous 'paraphanelia' from schools; not from the state, but from the kids. This is what's going to be slowly incorporated here. You give someone an inch and they'll take an inch and a half. At some point the US is going to become a totally submerged state under a world government. Why?

Because of philisophical, personal and humanist viewpoints. There is no conservative, there is no liberal nor democrat nor republican. They all do the same thing using different words (its called spin). What does everyone think, that the US will be obstinate for 50 years to come and never give into an form of world government? What do you think gun control is all about? Its about disarming a population despite the fact 50,000 kids died of highschool football injuries, but no, the kids who killed 7 - yes, only 7, ballistics show that 6 of the kids in columbine were shot by police - one year are proof enough. They make things like the Patriot act and the Victory act all to empower themselves. Its in the air, a selfish mode of thinking that can only, inevitably, bind them together in the end. Once again, its not paranioa. Its history. I have no doubt that the world is going to go through some turmoil, like its never seen before.

When it comes to any man I don't trust, don't believe and certianly don't heed. All you have are a bunch of hatebreeding, maniacal sons of bitches vaiing to be top dog. And every top dog in history was an oppressive, iron fisted dictator who believed in himself.

That might just be me.

[Skank]

ive stayed out of this discussion pretty much...but ive enjoyed reading it.
i dig your posts devlock, i always liked history, but never studied it much (tho one my buddies is a historian, so i get a lesson pretty often) and i agree that history will repeat itself here....

theres been talk about a "new world order" for a very veeerrryyy long time now from american presidents...people really dont know wtf that means for them..

:bash:

[mcotie]

Devilock138 no offense but your classification of religions freaks me out.

Some of it is correct but your message exudes Christian fundamentalist.

mitch

[Devilock138]

Al Husseni Hussein who helped Timothy McVeigh (McVeigh the 'christian fundamentalist' trained by the FBI) wasn't one. Husseni was trained by the FBI also. In an FBI memo from the late 90's (way before 9-11) you know who got listed as being potentially threatening to national security? Any Christian who believed 'in a second coming of Christ in one form or another, gunowners, homeschoolers and people who make numerous references to the Bill of Rights.

You might have noticed I haven't said anything about jihad or Muslim fundamentalists either. Why? Because it all leads back to government sponsered terrorism. The New York Times reported on how a Col. Salem had recorded his conversation with the FBI about bombing the WTC back in '93. 9-11 had the same benchmarks.

When Payne Stewart's private jet (the golfer) went off course for 15 minutes, in 18 minutes there was a squadron of F-16s escorting him. During the morning of 9-11 there were four planes, some off course for over an hour... and nothing happened. Jetliners with GPS and advanced warning systems and flight control radar, but there were no interceptions or anything. You hear brushed aside reports of flight controllers trying to contact higher-ups to tell them 'there's a Jet off course' but there were no reactions.

If you look at the landscape instead of the individual blades of grass you can see that fundamentalists from every religion exist and are almost always empowered by the state.

[MGH]

Originally posted by Devilock138
Al Husseni Hussein who helped Timothy McVeigh (McVeigh the 'christian fundamentalist' trained by the FBI) wasn't one. Husseni was trained by the FBI also.
You might have noticed I haven't said anything about jihad or Muslim fundamentalists either. Why? Because it all leads back to government sponsered terrorism.
When Payne Stewart's private jet (the golfer) went off course for 15 minutes, in 18 minutes there was a squadron of F-16s escorting him. During the morning of 9-11 there were four planes, some off course for over an hour... and nothing happened.

So what you're saying is (get ready for it people) is that The Government of the United States of America murdered @ 3,000 of it's own citizens.
OK, let's go with that then. If that is true and could somehow be proved (meaning Kati Couric has to tearfully annnounce it on the Today show, to make it official. Or maybe Laura Bush telling Barbara Walters) then the mobs should be headed up The Mall at any moment.
Am I getting this right, then?

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by MGH

...and could somehow be proved (meaning Kati Couric has to tearfully annnounce it on the Today show, to make it official)...

The CIA told the USAF to stand down during the morning of 9-11; the AF were going to scramble jets because 4 planes were off course, not using their transponders and refusing to communicate with ATC. The CIA tells them: "We're running a drill." How else could it hit the pentagon? There's an independent radar tracking system in the pentagon that can see a piper cub 300 miles away. A commercial liner with its transponder off, refusing to communicate with Air Traffic Control going anywhere NEAR Washington DC could be intercepted by fighters out of Andrews AFB inside 9 minutes; that's including the only 3 minute scramble time.

That is a fact that was in the news a grand total of maybe an hour. This is not a Republic, its a democracy, far easier to disguise. The news channels here do exactly as they're instructed. Newsweek ran the story online of the FBI being recorded but never followed it up or published it (coincidentally, when I first read it back in 2001 its a different version that's currently archived).

Why is it so hard to believe that a country would kill its own citizens? Nero burned down Rome to get support for a war against the Christians, Hitler burned the Reichstag before he was Fuhrer, convincing Hindenburg to sign a 'Decree for the Protection of the People and the State', taking away freedom of speech and assembly (sound familiar? Patriot Act, PAII and the Victory Act). Hell, the US practically obliterated the Native nations in an attempted, and somewhat successful, genocide (I'm half Cherokee, half Irish). Lincoln took the Irish and conscripted them into the military on the docks in NYC. Oh, yeah... Lincoln also used slaves as cannon fodder; sending them in in front of his troops so that the confederacy would use up its ammo/energy during battles. Tht fact seems to have been abrogated from my high school history book.

In other words, if Katie Couric announced it, I wouldn't believe it. The mainstream news media is nationalistic, biased and wholly unqualified. Dan Rathers said something to the effect that there were security issues and that the intelligence community had screwed up, but it got brushed aside in the same day. Alot of people think it was just a major lapse in security; I don't mean them getting through the airports with razors, I mean the ATC, the USAF, the CIA, the Pentagon all allowing it to go on. But on that end there was no security breach. Security was tight and every time a plane was noticed or a discrepancy was seen the CIA said, "Its a drill, don't worry." Then, "We were running a drill of the exact same thing on the exact same morning at the exact same time... even though no other flights were diverted by us." I, for one, don't believe in coincidences.

[MGH]

With all due respect Devilock, the question begs to be asked - If I shouldn't believe the 'mainstream' media, why should I believe you or the people you got the info from?

[Jan]

Devilock138 postet
" Because of something called the Earth Charter.Here's a quote:"Earth,each life form,and all living beeings possess intrinsic value and warrant respect independently of their utilitarian value to humanity."If you go through and look at the landscape of the UN document its basically saying that humans and animals have the same value,rights and morals.Who else believed this?The Nazis.Nero.Rome.Molech is a derivation of death and rebirth such as Baal or the Celtic Mother Godess and such;Pantheism.And with Pantheism you have the Humanist who are anthropocentric (me first). "

The quote from the earth charter really sounds nice.
The Nazis are not famous for believing that "...each life form,and all living beeings possess intrinsic value and warrant respect...".
The Nazis are famous because of the Holocaust.
Never heared that humanism is a religion.Do you compare humanists with nazis?
Monotheists against "pantheists"?
Whats with buddhists,maybe they would agree with your quote from "earth charter",they believe in rebirth,and they are monotheists,aren't they?

Devilock138 postet:
" Al Husseini Hussein who helped Timothy McVeigh(McVeigh the 'christian fundamentalist' trained by the FBI)wasn't one. "

Does this sentence say McVeigh was no christian fundamentalist?My english isn't that gooD.If it reeally means this,could you give a link?

I don't believe the official wtc-version,too.Early in this thread i've posted a wtc7-link,because i think at this point it's very obvious that s.thng. is wrong.
Another wtc-link

http://physics911.org

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by MGH
With all due respect Devilock, the question begs to be asked - If I shouldn't believe the 'mainstream' media, why should I believe you or the people you got the info from?

I said to take it with a grain of salt.

And my info comes mainly from the AP bulletins. After reading what I said do you have an inclination to research it? If you don't, then discussing it will be... pointless.

Originally posted by Jan

The Nazis are not famous for believing that "...each life form,and all living beings possess intrinsic value and warrant respect...".
The Nazis are famous because of the Holocaust.
Never heared that humanism is a religion.Do you compare humanists with nazis?
Monotheists against "pantheists"?

I think you might have taken out of context what I said. The battle cry of humanism is, basically: "No deity will save us; we must save ourselves." That is, essentially, the role the UN tries to play. What Hitler did was to take 'natural selection,' part of the "we're the same stuff as animals" philosophy (equal to animals 'by an evolutionary' model) and utilize it to program a society that they were the master race, not because a diety had appointed them there, but because nature had given it to them. The Holocaust is window dressing; it is the result of humanistic beliefs.

So compare it:

The UN sponsors (heavily funded; part of Unesco's mission) any evolutionary research being done and says man is 'part of Earth, descended from the same genetic material...' The same thing Hitler said. Villians who twirl their mustache in dark corners are easy to spot, but ones that cloak their evil in the name of righteousness are harder to see.

[winjer]

The mainstream media is all just smokescreen bullshit to keep the masses calm and subservient. Noone needs to hear about insignificant murder cases and petty crap like gay marriage, but if thats all thats fed to you it makes you stop worrying about anything bigger.

like:
http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/IMG/pdf/bushregimedeck.pdf


P.S. - I have no idea how much of that stuff in the pdf is provable fact but if even a little bit is true were all thoroughly boned here in the states.

[Jan]

Devilock138: you did not answer my McVeigh-question.Maybe he was called a christian fundamentalist because of his KKK-background.Maybe because of elohim-city.
Here's a actual link:
http://www.mccurtain.com/langontotestify.htm
I don't understand what you want to say.

Another question:I readed about that what-did-the-AF-on-911-thing before.
You said they did not start because the CIA told them it was a drill.
Could you give a link for that?
I'm interested in this,if you don't give links it's hard to estimate whats just your opinion on it.

Devilock138 postet:
" The Holocaust is window dressing; it is the result of humanistic beliefs. "

Are you sure all that grain you take was salt?

Devilock138 postet(earlier in this thread):
" ...It's about disarming a population despite the fact 50,000 kids died of highschool football injuries... "

Do you like guns?

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by Jan
Devilock138: you did not answer my McVeigh-question.Maybe he was called a christian fundamentalist because of his KKK-background.Maybe because of elohim-city.
Here's a actual link:
http://www.mccurtain.com/langontotestify.htm
I don't understand what you want to say.

I was saying that his religion was irrelevant. It might have been relevant to HIM, but not to the people who hired him.

Originally posted by Jan
Another question:I readed about that what-did-the-AF-on-911-thing before.
You said they did not start because the CIA told them it was a drill.
Could you give a link for that?
I'm interested in this,if you don't give links it's hard to estimate whats just your opinion on it.

http://cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayairdefense.html

http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/Contingency_Planning.html

http://www.oilempire.us/standdown.html

Originally posted by Jan

Devilock138 postet:
" The Holocaust is window dressing; it is the result of humanistic beliefs. "

I think you misunderstood this statement. My emphasis was on the result of the trigger. The mechanism was the focus, not the particular job it was doing.

Originally posted by Jan

Do you like guns?

Nope, never owned one. I don't even like drawing them. But when a country disarms its population the usual result is pretty consistent for the most part.

[gasmask]

this is ridiculous, this conspiracy stuff is so far fetched, people read into stuff and blow it out of proportion because it adds excitment into life, just like gay people taking eminems music so serious. i honestly dont think america will get nuked nor do i think we will be taken over by another nation, just because past empires have, doesnt mean we will anytime soon.. every past empire has fell for many diff. reasons. their really is no evidence to prove that america will fall, or that bush is in a cult.

[J Bradford]

Damn dude, you go to SCAD? I'd f*ckin afraid of you if I was still there. :shocked:

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by J Bradford
Damn dude, you go to SCAD? I'd f*ckin afraid of you if I was still there. :shocked:

I don't go to Scad. I grew up here.

[Jan]

Devilock138:Nice links,but i can't find say where cia says "we are running a drill".

Devilock138 postet:
"The Holocaust is window dressing; it is the result of humanistic beliefs. "
No.
It is the "result" of the Nazis and their 3rd Reich.
Really.

Devilock138 postet:
" ...The battle cry of humanism is, basically:"No deity will save us;..." That is, essentially, the role the UN tries to play. "
Do you think everything would be better in a state-of-god(gottesstaat),as known from some islamic countries?Maybe you can recommend a good diety?

Devilock138 postet:
" ...But when a country disarms its population the usual result is pretty consistent for the most part. "
Are you talking of Afghanistan?

You direct the bad mood you get from wtc,S&B and the possability of nuclear terrorism against the UN,and against "humanism".
Sorry that i cannot give a link now,i forgot his name.There is an extremist in the US,who wants the UN get kicked till the end of the year,as far as i remember,even by violence.
What do you think of such people?

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by Jan
What do you think of such people?

Violence begets violence.

And its not my mood. I'm not cynical and I'm not a theorist. However I can use my common sense to see reality. Seeing reality does not fall under the bias of my moods. I have no real mood concerning 9/11. Its just another chapter. As for my pointing criticism to the UN, there were twofold arguments that arose seperately. The tyrades on the UN stemmed from the discussion on satanism and humanism.

[mos667]

I can't take that 40 minute video seriously.

That guy looks too much like a fat Russell Crowe.
Holy krap, I'm watching it now.
Russell Crowe. I swear.

I love the Illuminati.

[Jan]

Here's a link to an article from 5th febr.Maybe it has(a part of the) answer why F-15/16 did not start on 911.
http://www.madcowprod.com/

Devilock138 postet:
" Violence begets violence. "
Should this say the UN is violent,or should this say the UN should not be attacked?

The other questions are real questions,too.Of what disarmed populations are you talking?
You don't call it mood,o.k.
You say it's your common sense.
I've never heard/read before that someone reminds the UN in context with satanism.Or the Nazis with Earth charter.Your quote from it just says that we should not destroy the earth.That does not sound very satanistic to me.

A lot of what you have postet sounds very religious,are this the beliefs of a church?How is it called?You call yourself Devilock138,and your avatar shows a red man,and in the background the number 138 is written.Does it have a religious meaning/what is the meaning of this?

[Phuzion]

I think all you people that are so eager to discredit theorists and Devilock138 are simply doing so to make the situation less serious than it is, else you might have to get off your butts and do something about it... like vote. People saying that video had no proof to back up the views... have you seen proof to discredit it? No? Imagine that. I'm not going to go around saying our damn government directly murdered 3000 people, but if you issue an ultimatem to someone like, "let us build an oil pipeline through your country or we'll carpet you with bombs," you can be damn sure you're somewhat responsible for what the threatened person does next, like taking out the towers. I don't blame Osama, I blame our government for being rash and idiotic and not taking precautions.
Alot of this talk seems to be coming from people that think all the politics don't apply to them, or don't effect them. If politics don't effect your everyday life, can you let the other 6 billion people in the world know how you do it? Do you live on your own private self sustaining island? No? But all the inflated gas prices set by the companies funding the goverment don't effect your everyday life? Open your eyes at least halfway please. You don't have to be all up in arms about everything, but don't go saying it's all BS just so you don't have to care. That's all I'm saying on the subject. Peace

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by Jan
Here's a link to an article from 5th febr.Maybe it has(a part of the) answer why F-15/16 did not start on 911.
http://www.madcowprod.com/

Devilock138 postet:
" Violence begets violence. "
Should this say the UN is violent,or should this say the UN should not be attacked?

The other questions are real questions,too.Of what disarmed populations are you talking?
You don't call it mood,o.k.
You say it's your common sense.
I've never heard/read before that someone reminds the UN in context with satanism.Or the Nazis with Earth charter.Your quote from it just says that we should not destroy the earth.That does not sound very satanistic to me.

You call yourself Devilock138,and your avatar shows a red man...

That's me in my avatar. 'Devilock' and '138' are Misfits references.

I compared the UN's 'wanting to save the planet' to humanism. Humanism is the belief that man is no more special then an animal since he comes from them; that the Earth birthed them from chaos or somesuch. In any case, it wasn't ME who had originally talked about Satanism. I simply reiterated that satanism and humanism were the same, either directly or indirectly.

So when someone ignores the murder of millions in Rawanda (Hutu, Tutsi; UN not only ignored, but sanctioned some of the Leaders), and then puts a guy in prision for 15 years for shooting an eagle (the Endangered species act made by the UN) then, yes, I would consider that more disgusting then any terrorist in history. So UN = Humanist = Equal Philosophy towards man as satanism. If you see what I said that way then I'll probably agree with you.

What I meant by violence. It never solves anything. Ever. It just perpetuates itself. Therefore, violence begets violence. Its a violent world and if you chose to fight then the ultimate end will still be the end if you didn't choose to fight.

Now do I believe everything on Infowars? Let me say this. I don't disbelieve everything. That's pretty much my final thought on it.

[feels]

Well, we have elections every four years, and I doubt that every president and candidate will be a member of Skull and Bones. If the United States collapses or takes over the world within four years, then I will think back to this thread.

[Jan]

Devilock138 : The Devilock138 means just your favourite songs?Funny.I really thought it would have a religious meaning.
My english is not perfekt,maybe "feelings" would have made more sense than "mood".
I asked you of what disarmed population you were talking.Was the answer really Ruanda?

Devilock138 postet :
" ...and then puts a guy in prision for 15 years for shooting an eagle... "
Really?Was it in the U.S.?You have some extreme laws there,could you give a link?
I asked you if you are part of a religious community.I don't understand some of what you write.For example:

Devilock138 postat :
" ...stopped the church in Germany from teaching that the meek will inherit;... "
What does it mean?

Devilock138 postet:
" If you go through and look at the landscape of the UN document its basically saying that humans and animals have the same values,rights and morals.Who also believed this?The Nazis.Nero.Rome.Molech is a derivation of death and rebirth such as Baal or the Celtic Mother Godess and such;Pantheism.And with Pantheism you have the Humanist who are anthropocentric (me first). "
So on the one hand you accuse believing humans and animals are the same,on the other hand for the anthropocentric.Don't they exclude each other?I had a look at earth charter,all i can see it's about human rights(that did not exist in the third Reich) and not-to-pollute the environment.Is "If you go through and look at the landscape..." different from common reading?
You often say what you think is wrong to believe in,maybe it would be easier to understand if you say what you believe.

[amphex]

wow hahaha this is awesome
i love reading with devilock138 has to say :chug: !

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by Jan
Is "If you go through and look at the landscape..." different from common reading?
You often say what you think is wrong to believe in,maybe it would be easier to understand if you say what you believe.

This is the jist of everything I have stated:

The state will, inevitably, control its people rather then its people control the state. There are 2 ways to control a population generationally: Education and Religion. If the state controls Education and Religion then the state can, generation by generation, control more and more of what the people think. The people will never know that they are controlled because they're a generation less sensetive to that control because the previous freedom they never knew existed.

That's why I gave the example of the church in Germany. How could they teach all the children that they were the master race destined to rule the world if only 'the meek' were to inherit it. So the state took over the Church.

See, if the UN looked like Nazi Germany you think people would support it so easily? No, but when it makes protestations that its the best hope for peace and world unity and you see people of all different nations in the same room talking all civilized like you tend to get blinded by the drama of the situation. Its the same shadow from the same inevitability. A nation is the good guy when it starts. It defeats the bad guys. The new nation becomes the bad guy and is defeated by the new good guys. Its round-a-round. The same story.

And about Devilock, I used to have one. It came down to my chin in juniour hi, now it only reaches my eyes.

[Idiot]

What a waste of time, I can't believe I bothered watching that junk. The amount of energy people are willing to spend injecting nonsense into nothing always amazes me. "John Quincy Adams went after these people, so every claim I make against them is a fact!". The guy had nothing to back himself up. "But what if it is true?", what if aliens have abducted Juan Valdelz and filled him with nacho cheese. What if Levi jeans are specifically designed to make Americans uncomfortable watching network television? WHO CARES! But it's impossible to win an argument with conspiracists. The conspiracy theories are their religion, they believe by faith, and no amount of proof can shake their convictions.

BTW the fact that a member of a fraternity doesn't talk about what goes on inside, does not make it a satanic religion.

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by Idiot
The amount of energy people are willing to spend...

I'm kind of amazed by the amount of energy some people DON'T spend investigating. I'm sure you're content with comparing documents that you can go down to the public record's office and look at... with filling Juan Valdez with cheese.

Your name seems appropriate. :bash:

[Travis_Bourbeau]

aristotlle died in the year 322

"Mine is the first step and therefore a small one, though worked out with much thought and hard labor. You, my readers or hearers of my lectures, if you think I have done as much as can fairly be expected of an initial start. . . will acknowledge what I have achieved and will pardon what I have left for others to accomplish."

have fun ! ;)

[Jan]

Devilock138:
So a lot of what you write is just your kind of humor.Earth-charta=satanism comparision to show that it is worthless.It's a bit much,never really know what is serious and what not.

Devilock138 postet:
" See, if the UN looked like nazi-germany you think people would support it so easily? "

A genozide is a genozide.
And the UN is responsible.But it is responsible because of their definition,because they say that they exist to keep peace and such.
Thats still somewhat different to build up KZ(Vernichtungslager).
I must say,i can think of worse than UN.They are against landmines,nuclear weapons,help children bla.
It's not that i think they cannot be corrupted or always succeed/try their honorable believes.So in ex-Jugoslavia it doesnt really look like a succes,in context with their principles.
I don't know if you really think the US could be invaded by the UN(and Ruanda does not give me the feeling of overpowered UN),or the US by the Canadians/Mexicans.The UN would not do their job then?Maybe you just say it because you don't like them.If you really want to say something about it,you can do so,and maybe add a link.
By the way-you have the church of satan and the temple of seth in the US.
Still can't get rid of the imagination that some guys pick up their guns,charging at the UN,shouting something like "we'll show you our arguments,one for each tower".


Krongard/put-options-links(who made some money with 911)

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/12_11_01_death_profits_pt2.html
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/wot/sept11/911alexbrown.html

[JoshuaTheJames]

Originally posted by Devilock138


I'm kind of amazed by the amount of energy some people DON'T spend investigating. I'm sure you're content with comparing documents that you can go down to the public record's office and look at... with filling Juan Valdez with cheese.

Your name seems appropriate. :bash:

lol

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by Jan
They are against landmines,nuclear weapons,help children bla.

During the Korean War the UN was responsible for a million civilian deaths; there were 580,000 U.N and South Korean troops, and 1,600,000 communist troops, either killed, wounded or reported missing. Korea is the forgotten war that should be revisited. The UN has no sanctions against countries who produce landmines or nuclear weapons (...like the United States) and while they talk the talk they lack actions of any real value.

I stand firmly in the knowledge that they are not an entity interested in peace. The very idea of a 'peace-keeping force' is a contradiction in terms.

Let me try and explain everything. Its all a big movie production and we get to watch and we root for the good guys and boo the bad guys while the hero gets the girl. But when you look at how the movie is made, you realize its not romantic or real. The hero looks tall because he has boots on, he's chiseled because the lights are set up only on one side. The explosions are real, but its all for drama.

[Jan]

Devilock138:
About Korean war i don't know much.
The UN was "just supporting" the US,weren't they?(now south-korea can say "thank you" in Irak)
I've read that the assassination(or maybe (controlled) accident?) of Frank Olson could have to do with this.
Today north-Koreans still believe they have been "bombed" by bugs,as desease-carriers(seen on TV,but fits the Olson-stuff).

Requius:Oh,you have some anthrax in your link.
Do you think the letters were psychological warfare,because of the Irak-war?

meek

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by Jan

Today north-Koreans still believe they have been "bombed" by bugs,as desease-carriers(seen on TV,but fits the Olson-stuff).

They're not the only ones who believe it. After all, the US has the largest biological warfare program in existence. Its no stretch of the imagination to realize they did; if you've ever read some of Kissinger's declassified documents you'd read some scary shit that was planned out.

And yes, I think a couple of hired cronies sent out letters with anthrax (weapons grade anthrax traced back to an American weapons plant... gee, golly...) at the behest of the higher ups.

[Jan]

Olson-story
http://www.rense.com/general31/kor.htm
pentagon last year
http://washingtontimes.com/national/20031007-113542-7772r.htm#

To my seen-on-TV-comment i must say:It was said by a n.korean person that was usually propaganda-schooled(the sight-seeing-assistent of a US-journalist,she said so,as far as i remember.)
But would fit artichoke.

[Jan]

Devilock138:Here a link to an organisation with a slight human-rights-touch:
or google for soa+whisc (http://www.benning.army.mil/whinsec/democracy.asp?id=95)

[Devilock138]

They have the right to impose democracy? Democratic means: everyone is the same. A democracy is just a hair's breath away from communism. In a democratic society you have a minority speaking for a majority (senate, house, etc.). When a minority at the level of the state and federal government dictates laws rather then recieves them from the people that's not a republic (the US was formed as a republic). I was talking about gun laws before. If the majority of people own a gun and they don't want to give their guns up and they speak out about it then how come a vastly small minority can decide what's right for them to do and impose laws against the majority? It makes zero sense. A republic is 'power of the people' and a democracy is 'power in spite of the people.'

[Jan]

Devilock138 postet:
" They have the right to impose democrcy? "

Was it about whisc?It's some kind of terrorcamp,to impose dictatorships.Thought you would know them.They've renamed,i've read they'll focus now on international terrorism in mexico.

In any society there will be some representatives,a minority speaking for a majority,or at least claiming to do so.
And this will ever bring some problems with it.

Just because a lot of people want something it says nothing.That doesn't mean peoples opinions are worthless(as in a dictature;even a dictator cannot rule alone),but everyone is subjekt to some propaganda,wars are started with lies.There should be some healthy limits,from time to time anything escalates.
Modern weapons are nothing natural,and they are good for nothing than killing/injuring.It's too easy.So there must be some laws to hinder people killing each other/discriminating each other.
More guns just mean more dead people.
And where should it stop?Should everybody than have his own centrifuge,if a lot of people think it's a good idea?
But in early 2005 some of you americans could have a gun-for free.
You've already postet about S89 and HR163 (http://www.vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2004/01/105146.php).
It's really actual.
When S.Hussein was captured,on that saturday the patriot-act was enhanced.
Have an eye on the laws if Bin Laden will be presented-maybe it changes again(he's so fast...).

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by Jan

More guns just mean more dead people.
And where should it stop?Should everybody than have his own centrifuge,if a lot of people think it's a good idea?

Canadians have just as many guns as Americans. They don't often have gun related crimes.

There's a paranoid mindset that kills people here, not guns. If you took an American's guns away he'd come after you with a bat. This is a violent nation; armed or unarmed.

And, yes, if the majority want it... who gives the minority a right to revoke it? Who gives the minority of politicians power? Its citizens. Therefore, a country's officials don't need their own ideas or plans or opinions. They should only concern their work with what the people want.

[softdrawer]

i never planned on using guns since i don't see the point of its being and there isn't any. Foolishly you will disagree.

[Jan]

Devilock138 postet:
" Canadians have just as many guns as Americans.They don't often have gun related crimes. "
Maybe some use their guns really for hunting?Then more guns mean more dead animals.
Here in germany guns are not allowed.Just fake-guns that shoot tear-gas.Some look like real guns,they're often used for robbery.
I think if real guns were allowed here,this would change a lot.
Maybe the consequences would be seen when some fascists meet at foreigners-housing-area.
There are laws on everything-some laws make sense,others not.No-gun-law is o.k..

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by Jan

Maybe some use their guns really for hunting?Then more guns mean more dead animals.
Here in germany guns are not allowed.Just fake-guns that shoot tear-gas.Some look like real guns,they're often used for robbery.
I think if real guns were allowed here,this would change a lot.
Maybe the consequences would be seen when some fascists meet at foreigners-housing-area.
There are laws on everything-some laws make sense,others not.No-gun-law is o.k..

Jan... Every friend I know spends half their time hunting, not going to the local militia meeting. I am the only one of all my friends to not own a gun. They all have rifles with scopes and they go hunting even in the off season. Its a massive industry here. I ride around in a big 4x4 truck with three gun racks with loaded guns in the back window when we take a trip. There's nothing violent connected with it.

Truthfully, I think there's just a huge culture gap between you and I. You have to understand: violent people are going to be violent with or without guns. Do you know what the number one cause of death was in Beruit one year? Rocks. The people throwing rocks at the army and at the militia were killing MORE then the army and the militia that had tanks, explosives AND guns.

People are going to be violent regardless of weaponry. Like i said before, if you actually could take away every American's gun (that would be a war in itself) then everyone here would just be more innovative to be violent.

And its not a matter of changing the constitution; its in the Bill of Rights being able to own a gun. The Bill of Rights and the Constitution are two different things. Americans see the constitution being amended, modified and whatnot, but if someone tried to take away their God-given, human rights that no government has the right to do then you will find that to be a bloody day indeed.

I don't own a gun. I don't intend on owning a gun any time soon. I think that justice and governments are so deplorably corrupt that nothing that their forebearers ever said is sacred to them. I have zero patriotism (patriotism is just nationalism in disguise) and I see no reason to label myself as part of a nation just because I was born there (like I had a choice). And really, how do you know a no-gun-law is okay? If you've never experienced it...

[Jan]

Devilock138:That with the hunting was some black-and-white-speech of me.
I mean it tendencially.I would think that maybe in Canada a higher part of the weapons there would be designed for hunting,and used for it,while in the US there are more weapons that could hardly used for hunting.
But thats only what i think,i don't know it.

Devilock138 postet:
" People are going to be violent regardless of weaponry. "
Yes and no.Someone with a bat would be less dangerous than someone with a gun.Someone with a gun is superior to someone without a gun.And that makes it easier to become violent.
(no-gun-law=law that does not allow guns,was what i mean)

Yes,patriotism is a strange think.Maybe the imagination of a lot mass.Supports mainly aggression.

Just because we are talking about guns and such:

M16+haiti (http://www.freespeech.org/fsitv/fscm2/contentviewer.php?content.id=740)

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by Jan

Yes and no.Someone with a bat would be less dangerous than someone with a gun.Someone with a gun is superior to someone without a gun.And that makes it easier to become violent.

So its alright for the government to be the guy with the gun while we're stuck with bats?

[JEQ]

Devilock138--

What you describe as a Satanist sounds just like a Humanist (pantheism, that life sprang from dirt, such and such ancient religions). You described only one aspect of Satanism; the indirect 'do what you feel' philosophy when there is a whole other side involving submission and all worship and what not. And although they may vary slightly, the idea is the same: that we live and die and are nothing but rotting flesh afterwards. So during life don't get pushed around, raze your enemies and rule supreme. No... nothing harmful at all when people in positions of power have that belief. Humanism, and Satanism are basically the same thing. The words are a little rearranged, but, at its root, they're hand in hand.

This is nonsense. Humanism is basically a philosophical stance that human experience should serve as the foundation for our knowledge of the world. It began as a movement away from a theological perspective (i.e. what we know is handed down through scripture). Although the humanist perspective is probably the principle reason for the growth of secular societies in Western culture (as well as science), humanism isn't antithetical to religion.

This link has a discussion of humanist philosophy and history, as well as brief descriptions of various types of humanism: http://www.jcn.com/humanism.html

Blaming humanism for Hitler is like blaming the English language for Vanilla Ice's career as a rapper.

They have the right to impose democracy? Democratic means: everyone is the same.

No. Democracy is a form of representative government where everyone has the same right to vote for representatives in an election.

A democracy is just a hair's breath away from communism.

You can't be serious. First off, you're really comparing apples and oranges. Democracy aims to give people influence over their government through an electoral process. Communism aims to achieve a classless society through the abolition of private property.
Is there a difference? How much does private property matter in your life?

In a democratic society you have a minority speaking for a majority (senate, house, etc.)

Off course. Are you going to have millions of people stop and take a vote everytime a decision has to be made?

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by JEQ

This is nonsense. Humanism is basically a philosophical stance that human experience should serve as the foundation for our knowledge of the world. It began as a movement away from a theological perspective (i.e. what we know is handed down through scripture). Although the humanist perspective is probably the principle reason for the growth of secular societies in Western culture (as well as science), humanism isn't antithetical to religion.

This link has a discussion of humanist philosophy and history, as well as brief descriptions of various types of humanism: http://www.jcn.com/humanism.html

Blaming humanism for Hitler is like blaming the English language for Vanilla Ice's career as a rapper.

You need to re-read what I posted without an already bent bias towards it. If you can't compare main points then don't try and deconstruct with small points.

You basically said this: Humans are selfish and should believe in themselves (human experience should serve as the foundation for our knowledge of the world).

And, no, humanism is not responsible for any scientific progress (unless you're talking about biological weapons, 'family planning,' and the Hydrogen bomb). The progression of being able to kill more efficently or get a burger faster or heating a coffee is not progress. All the great scientist who proved that flies didn't spontaneously pop out of meat, that bacteria existed, that gravity functioned and that time and space were simple, yet inconcievable were all men motivated by their beliefs in God, not in their belief in man.

Yes, humanism IS the principle design AND function of western 'secular' (your 'go to a happy place' word for oppressive?) societies.

I didn't say Hitler believed in humanism. But you need to go get yourself an education in a wide array of religion before you defend only one (yes, humanism is a religion by all defintion); otherwise you misunderstand the metamorphosis that beliefs from the Babylonians blended through a few thousand years to the isle of Britain. The complex and the simple go hand in hand when you find the main philosophies of many (that all life is perpetual to itself, answers to no one... get the drift?). Its the same thing.

Originally posted by JEQ
No. Democracy is a form of representative government where everyone has the same right to vote for representatives in an election.

You can't be serious. First off, you're really comparing apples and oranges. Democracy aims to give people influence over their government through an electoral process. Communism aims to achieve a classless society through the abolition of private property.
Is there a difference? How much does private property matter in your life?

Of course. Are you going to have millions of people stop and take a vote everytime a decision has to be made?

Hmm...

Democracy aims to give people influence over their government through an electoral process. Communism aims to achieve a classless society through the abolition of private property.

Of course. Are you going to have millions of people stop and take a vote everytime a decision has to be made?

Like, say, the decision for what marriage should be defined as? If a person can own a gun? If the FBI can search your home without a warrant, probable cause or even informing you (Go read your Patriot Act)? Taking prayer out of school, but leaving a pledge in? The government being able to sieze all your property?

Let me put it to you in terms you just might understand. I live in Georgia. Do you know how many good ol' boys are here in the Bible-Belt? The vast, vast majority. Right now, up in Atlanta, there is a big debate on homosexual marriage. According to the news there were a thousand homosexuals in front of the statehouse rallying to get it passed. So, with the vast majority of Georgians here most likely oppossed in no small way to this as compared to the mostly Atlanta based, relatively small group of persons in favor of passing such a bill, who gives the right to that minority to impose on the majority? (my debate here isn't on homosexual marriage, its just an example) Not far from where I live a couple of guys came out of the closet and wound up having to have a brick barrier where their driveway once was because of the consant vandalism there. I mean, the grocer wouldn't talk to them, the police quit responding to their vandalism complaints, they had to hire contracters from closer to Savannah because no one would work on their house locally. That's just two guys. And that's just two years ago. Now how smart would it be to impose an ammendment that goes against the vast majority of religous people; a great many being good ol' boys with shotguns, trucks and chains?

A minority in power, works only for the minority that supports its power. I could go on and on about the consant 'oh, we're all the same inside,' speeches I've heard. That we all need to be unified, focused, patterned, obedient, supportive... You might not see it because you fail to understand that when something doesn't work you don't throw it away.

Let me use another example of what I mean. I do architectural concrete (fancy phrase for putting designs in it). When I make a mistake in concrete, its permanent. I could look at it every time and spot it driving by. But while I put the design in the concrete I work in that mistake to match the rest of it. I stain it different ways and have a powder integrated into the surface to give it a textured and 'real stone' look. If anyone but me saw that mistake they would think it was beautiful. And it is beautiful. I made a mistake look good. I could have torn up the concrete with a great deal more work, but instead I improvised and changed the way I used it. It was the same underneath, it just looked different from the top.

And you don't see it, most likely, because you're a part of it.

[JEQ]

Devilock138--

You basically said this: Humans are selfish and should believe in themselves (human experience should serve as the foundation for our knowledge of the world).

Your paraphrase of my sentence is ridiculous and value-laden. I made no character assessment of human beings being selfish. And "believe in yourself" isn't really the gist of the statement either.

There are different ways that knowledge may be constituted. One way is through myth: Lightning is Zeus is throwing thunderbolts. Another is through is through logical argument: Aristotle apparently had arguments that explained why men and women have a different number of teeth (they don't).

Basing knowledge on human experience equates to actually looking inside someone's mouth and counting, again and again, to come up with a generalization and eventually a rule. Of course this perspective does posit that human beings can reason and make correct decisions apart from divine intervention. Note that my statement pertains to knowledge of the world.

All the great scientist who proved that flies didn't spontaneously pop out of meat, that bacteria existed, that gravity functioned and that time and space were simple, yet inconcievable were all men motivated by their beliefs in God, not in their belief in man.

Like Galileo? Here's a good section from this short biography:
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/biography/Galileo.html

Galileo lay down the chief elements of his mechanics in Dialog on the Two Chief Systems of the World (1632), which was supposed to be an objective debate between the Copernican and Ptolemaic system. Unfortunately, Galileo put the Pope's favorite argument in the mouth of one of the characters, then proceeded to ridicule it. Galileo suddenly lost favor with the church, and was forced to recant his Copernican views and put under house arrest. Misner et al. (1973 p. 38) give some quotes by Galileo. One of the most telling is "In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual" (1632). A very similar twentieth century quote is attributed to Einstein.

Of course the relationship between religion and the scientific method is clear: religion plays no part in it. The scientific method is based in skepticism and empiricism. A claim about the properties of some aspect of the world must be tested, observed, recorded, and verified according to strict guidelines and standards of evidence. If the claim fails any of these criteria, at any point, it is rejected. Even claims that have been established as fact are subject to revision in light of new evidence. All of this is very different from how religions function.

Yes, humanism IS the principle design AND function of western 'secular' (your 'go to a happy place' word for oppressive?) societies.

LOL! Why don't you just cut to the chase and describe how your ideal non-oppressive, non-secular society is structured?

The complex and the simple go hand in hand when you find the main philosophies of many (that all life is perpetual to itself, answers to no one... get the drift?). Its the same thing.

....when you find the main philosophies of the many-what? What's the same thing? I have familiarity with a fair selection of religions. Many have structural similarities, but boiling them down to that one common element and then calling them the same is pretty stupid, IMO.

Like, say, the decision for what marriage should be defined as? If a person can own a gun? If the FBI can search your home without a warrant, probable cause or even informing you (Go read your Patriot Act)? Taking prayer out of school, but leaving a pledge in? The government being able to sieze all your property?

Of course there's always a problem with various special interest groups influencing the democratic process. No political process is perfect. But I think the heart of the issue is not the political process itself, but the fact that a lot of people in this society may not agree with you. Most of these issues you mention are have substantial support from some sector of the society, enough to overcome the opposition or slide by an apathetic majority of the population.

Again, what's your superior and presumably non-secular solution?

Let me put it to you in terms you just might understand. I live in Georgia. Do you know how many good ol' boys are here in the Bible-Belt? The vast, vast majority. Right now, up in Atlanta, there is a big debate on homosexual marriage. According to the news there were a thousand homosexuals in front of the statehouse rallying to get it passed. So, with the vast majority of Georgians here most likely oppossed in no small way to this as compared to the mostly Atlanta based, relatively small group of persons in favor of passing such a bill, who gives the right to that minority to impose on the majority?

The right to rally at an assembly? The First Amendment of the Constitution, for one thing. But let's continue:

Not far from where I live a couple of guys came out of the closet and wound up having to have a brick barrier where their driveway once was because of the consant vandalism there. I mean, the grocer wouldn't talk to them, the police quit responding to their vandalism complaints, they had to hire contracters from closer to Savannah because no one would work on their house locally. That's just two guys. And that's just two years ago. Now how smart would it be to impose an ammendment that goes against the vast majority of religous people; a great many being good ol' boys with shotguns, trucks and chains?

Well you were right, you did put things in terms I could understand. Mainly because we, as a society, have been through this crap before. The situation you describe is pretty much the same thing a lot of upitty African Americans went through during the civil rights movement. What the heck was wrong with these people when the majority of folks clearly wanted them to be sitting in the back of the bus?! Those people took a big risk, were right to do so, and I think it paid off.

Sorry. The threat from the good ol' boys is irrelevent to the debate, then as now.

And you don't see it, most likely, because you're a part of it.

OK. So explain to me how I achieve this enlightened position where I can see "it." And how I detach myself from whatever I am part of in order to obtain this vision.

[Waster]

My mac refused to show the movie. alas, is it down the lines of www.guerillanews.com? Heres a few quirky remarks:

I found the antrax-letter with the letters: " Allah is great" quite humorous. A wannabe-muslim with no knowledge of committing the cardinal sin of mixing the holy word Allah with a secular language. O how I laughed. Just like I laughed when Bush said "de-evaluate".

So this clip is about the illuminati or the Bilderbergers? Hehe, cant say they seem that scary. My father knows a "member" of the Bilderbergers (meaning: he was invited to one of their gatherings), and he doesnt seem all that devilworshipping to me.(I somehow got the impression in this thread that the clip was biased in an anti-devilworshipper fashion.) In fact my family told me he was quite stressed when he had to sleep in the guestroom where i had this small skull-collection arranged. He was referring to an alien skull in particular... Maybe he saw it as a warning from the judeofacist alien invasion from the planet Communista, who knows... (Ick! This felt like namedropping, but with a point to it.)

There seems to be a problem of "Organization" around here. (By that i mean this world.) To break free from the "Organization" is quite essential to understanding in general. By organization I mean the banner which we prefer to walk under. This ego investment is allways a bad thing when it is invested in the "Organization". The history of the "Organization" makes you wonder why people continue : The "Organization" usually turns out to be very eager to purify the world of the agents of destruction and malicious intent. The result: A need to "fetishate" evil; to localize the threat against life in some particular places where it can be reduced and controlled. Its tragic because humans make fantasies about Evil, see it in the wrong places and destroy themselves and others in the following havoc of slaughter.

I´ll admit to having a little ego investment in science. But im lazy, so in my defence I can say no war was started because of lazyness. Hitler started a humongous(right spelling?) war because he was a little TOO eager after all that ego investment.

Some might see this as a comparison with Bush. Thats the intention. "Waster suddenly started to think of a cartire and a lump of bananas."

Which reminds me of something totally off topic. There is this organization in Norway called: "The animal liberation front" which is widely known for their release of 1000 foxes from a fur-farm. The farmer caught them red handed, and as they drove away in the ensuing panic, they roadkilled 40 of the newly fleeing foxes. I wanted to start a mock organization called: "The banana liberation front" which would storm supermarkets and throw the bananas out into the street and yell slogans like:"free the bananas!" "skinning bananas = torture ". "Exalibanana!"



about devilworshippers: Im biased, since I made this site: Defending the Devil. Weekly! (http://www.devildefender.com)
(Its too much red when not displayed in 1600 x 1200 pixels. Im going to redesign it. any suggestions?)

[Jan]

Devilock138:No gun could stop things as 911.
About gay-marriage:maybe Schwarzenegger just get sick imaginating all that gays wanking at his posters.
Devilock138 postet:
" ...the vast majority of religious people;a great many being good ol' boys with shotguns,trucks and chains? "
Is it that hard there?Sounds like KKK.

Waster:your link doesn't work.Could you check it?There are various videos on that site.
I would say there is no use calling everything "devilworshipper".
Do you mix it up with the skulls of S&B-tomb?Can't find the video.
I agree with what you wrote about "fetishate" evil.The old hegelian i'm-just-over-there-trick,hehe.
I don't understand what you write about "ego-investment".
Is some kind of "anti-ego-investment" your religion,your solution for the world?
Where does "ego-investment" start?Is it already "ego-investment" to post in a thread?So,on a scale from 1 to 100,how much "ego-investment" does Hitler have?And how much has mother Theresa?
Do you believe evil would stop to exist if it would be called "ego-investment",because then anybody would be illuminated?
If i mixed your statement on the video with the video itself,then sorry.Maybe i just interprete your opinion on something i haven't seen.Please make me find the video.

here another fun-link:
http://www.internationaljewishconspiracy.com/

[Bammer]

Whoa.
Uh, this is my first time to read a non-art board at ConceptArt.org. I watched the little movie. Read the replies...
At first I thought everybody was kidding. Then I read all four pages and now I'm taken aback.
...The Order of Death? Wow. I guess we're all on to them now. And this is unnessessary of me, but damn it Devilock, at least look up the words democracy and republic before you use them. Also, learn what government type the United States has. Even 6 year olds know we have a Republic.

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by JEQ
Of course the relationship between religion and the scientific method is clear: religion plays no part in it. The scientific method is based in skepticism and empiricism. A claim about the properties of some aspect of the world must be tested, observed, recorded, and verified according to strict guidelines and standards of evidence. If the claim fails any of these criteria, at any point, it is rejected. Even claims that have been established as fact are subject to revision in light of new evidence. All of this is very different from how religions function.

I think what's so humorous about what you wrote is that the word 'God' trnslated in your brain to 'religion.'

Even though I never said they were religious.

...or that 'religion' had any part to play.

Did I?

So now that I know where you stand its a simple matter to extrapolate that you are a humanist. The instant and profound insult against you is that the supernatural exists. You equate anything that lacks a fundamental support for the progress of man deeper into his own xenophobic little universe where natural selection is a value unto itself as foolish, ignorant and ancient. Forgive me sir, but your bias speaks more then you do. Predispositions towards a selfish reality do much to devalue any words of wisdom or truth you thought you had. In other words, unless you intend to remove your attitude (that any belief of the supernatural is, in effect, like believing in Zeus), then I have no desire to argue with you further.

For one thing, you took Galileo out of context. Great reasoning there. He saw corruption in the church... wow, that's evidence he hated God (maybe you should try and look at your methods of investigating a little closer).

And I'm not writing anything to answer your quaint little questions about religion. I'm not your father confessor nor do I have any recourse to assist in something that is none of my business. Go find your own information. I spent a few years of my life researching, so its only fair and expected of you to do the same.

And what makes you think I have an answer for society? What makes you think I even care about society? I expect the inevitable conclusion of society and I recognize its overwhelming flaws, but I don't... really care, do I?

And you do recognize that the word 'philosophies' is plural, right? I didn't say 'one common element' did I? No. YOU did sir. You did with the expressed desire to deflate the pluralistic exposure of my word. I guess you could say 'boiling them down' is pretty stupid... considering that's a diffusive argument meant to dodge the immediate obstacle. Its not stupid. No matter what you say. You can pretend it is and say it is and other with only a 'familiarity' with religions can say that also. Go compare the structure, properties, deified agents and desires of ancient religions of the Celts with the middle eastern and Babylonian based religions of the Baals.

And since you're comparing homosexual marriage to race I have nothing to say in that particular regard. You can have that cake all you want. Its not the same thing. You can compare it all you want, but it is simply not the same. A white woman marrying a black guy has nothing to do with homosexuality. So get over it. (I'm stating that plainly and will not futher debate that particular subject).

[Jan]

Waster:
Still can't see your video.Does it exist or did you found it easier to comment a fictive video?
No one remindet here Bilderberger,but your message is as far as i understand,that if someone does not like the idea that the role such a shadowy organisation plays in politics should not be known to the public,it's like killing 40 foxes.
Could you write down where the video is to find on the link below?

Devilock138:Homosexuality and skin colour cannot be compared with each other themselves,but the intolerance against them can be compared.
The decrease of civil rights in the US is not done by humanism,it's done by a fanatic christ-W.Bush.
Because you're from the bible-belt,maybe you can tell some point of views of the extreme-christians(this should not suggest you are one,as far as i understand you,you believe in god but don't belong to a religion.)
I've read that they believe armageddon shall happen,in israel,because then Jesus will come and save all christs,and that they believe 9-11 was some kind of god's punishment for decadence.Do you know if they really believe in this,and if it's common?
guerrillanews (http://www.guerrillanews.com/newsvideo/)

[JEQ]

Devilock138--

Let me address a couple of your misconceptions. First off, I don't care if you believe in the supernatural. I am friends with many intelligent and insightful who have had such experiences. I myself haven't ruled it out. However, if you're going to use beliefs in the supernatural to criticise things like science, secularism, humanistic philosophy, etc., then you open up those beliefs to criticism.

Secondly, I didn't ask my "quaint little questions about religion" because I'm looking for your guidance. I was asking to find where the hell you really stand on some of these issues. To see what the foundation for your viewpoint actually is. Your pouty reticence to answer basically means your viewpoint is groundless. You might as well type "because I said so." Frankly, if you are a fundamentalist I don't get why you lack the cahones just to say so.

My motivation for responding to you is pretty straightforward--you are factually incorrect about a number of things and I feel like pointing it out. The US is a democratic republic. Democracy is not the same thing as communism. Humanism is not the same thing as Satanism or a pagan nature cult, although it's possible to have humanistic satanist, pagans, etc.

For one thing, you took Galileo out of context. Great reasoning there. He saw corruption in the church... wow, that's evidence he hated God (maybe you should try and look at your methods of investigating a little closer).

You made the absurd claim that all scientific progress resulted from scientists being motivated by their belief in God, not man. My quote doesn't show that Galileo hated God, and I never made that claim. It does show that Galileo was willing to reject religious dogma and put his trust in the individual (i.e. one man). That is a humanistic perspective. And why are you bitching at me about my investigative methods when you've presented NOTHING to back your opinion.

And what makes you think I have an answer for society? What makes you think I even care about society? I expect the inevitable conclusion of society and I recognize its overwhelming flaws, but I don't... really care, do I?

You care enough to complain about it, don't you?

And since you're comparing homosexual marriage to race I have nothing to say in that particular regard.

Oh, come now. Is your reading comprehension really that bad? Or are you just feigning incomprehension in an awkward attempt to wriggle away from your previous comments? You were talking about the good ol' boys, remember? And how it would be "smart" for homosexuals in the South not to upset them. I was merely pointing out that blacks were in the same position in the 60's. Maybe you should go back and re-read what you posted and think about it. Or not. You've already spoken volumes on the issue.

BTW, I did go and look at the religions of the Celts and the Baal worshippers.

Here's a link on the Celts: http://www.heartoscotland.com/Categories/CelticMythology.htm

And here's a link on Baal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal

Looking at the two, one thing comes across very clearly: the primitive religions of farmers and shepherds have a lot of nature gods and holidays based on agricultural cycles. Wow. How this mutates into a bizarre conspiracy theory involving humanism and "oppressive" secular socieites is beyond me.

[Waster]

Jan:
I think I confused you a little. By "down the lines" I meant; is the movie made in an underground news fashion with a beefy soundtrack to it?

Why be an anti-fascist when you can just not be a fascist? Why be an anti-racist when you can just not be a racist?
The "organization" allways works that way. It is anti. It is against. It makes rules which judges everyone who does not follow the "organization". I would not become anti them. I would just leave the organization. Both Hitler and Theresa invested their ego in the "organization". One with the wish to vanquish the "evil jews", the other fought to linger "evil". Hitler was way off, Theresa was closer to the mark. She fought evil in the form of pain. Is she the archetype of christians in general? Without christian totalityperceptions, evil gets room to show itself as pain. Evil has no "meaning". Suffering looses its why, and it can no longer be justified through pointing the finger at something higher. We get a world ruled by chance, not justice.

Those who has think that evil in some benighn or "higher purpose" way allways has a positive effect, should do evil to bring forth good in a bigger perspective, hehe!

My philosophy would be close to nihilism or misantrophy (The satanist "walks alone", so Im a little like that, minus the robes and daggers.) aquired after 2 years at a private school where close to 50 % of the students thought the world was 6000 years old. (Then what are they tanking up their cars with? ) Someone nicknamed me "the Beast" from Revelations. Im a little proud of that, so I had to mention it. :evilbat:

Since im in the zone, i should bash the Bible with this:
Adam and Eve could not have taken an evil choice, since they had no concept of evil. It was the sin that gave the knowledge that was nescessary to understand that they had committed a sin, and then you can say that man could not have had a free choice at that particular incident.
Off topic, and now back to topic...



About such illuminati-organizations: I do get the impression they are real, but with no more hidden agenda than making money and controlling resources. I dont think its plausible that they wander around in black robes gutting babies and eating intestines.

Im sorry, but you got the impression that I was trying to link 40 mashed foxes with the Bilderberg group, I hope this explains something:

My way of thought was this: Bush = monkey = banana =my banana rescue team idea = crazy animalhuggers roadkilling 40 foxes = hahahahahaha!

[Jan]

Waster:
Can't you locate that video you write your comment on?
Thats boring.
Why write a comment on your anti-definition?

No,something bad has not automatically a good side-effect.If something is destroyed,it's just destroyed.That's all.

Maybe you don't know that satanists exist in real.They are shit.

You have a nice nickname and are bright!
Your comment on the bible makes sense.Reminds me psychopath.It's said they cannot know whats good or bad because of the brain structure.
So i agree with that beeing evil(i don't use normally this antique word,because it's normally bound to a religious context) depends on knowledge.

About your last sentence i cannot say much,because i cannot find the video you comment.I find it interesting that 3Bush&Kerry have been/are in an organisation that still refuses to give back Geronimos remains.

bananas is not good for you.

[Waster]

Jan:


Now you REALLY confuse me. I sincerely hope english is your second language, or I might be very out of tune with my own english vocabulary. Well well... The video I referred to? I never referred to a video. I referred to a "style" or a way of making video LIKE guerillanews makes THEIR videos. I never said guerillanews had any video that contain anything about the Skull and bones organization. I asked whether the style was identical. Now, I hope this has made it more clear to you what I meant. No video was referred to.


About satanists: Which satanists are shit? They who follow the Church of Satan made by LaVey in 1969, or the wannabe sociopathic sadists who thinks the christian definition of satanism is an excellent way of life?


PLEASE read my other post again. Im no englishteacher, but please find a dictionary, no offense.

[Jan]

Waster:I did not know that the meaning of "down the lines" is "made in the same fashion as".
Could not see the Alex-Jones-video,too.
I thought you wrote a comment on something.O.k.,that was my question then.

Waster postet:
" About such illuminati-organisations: ... I dont think its plausible that they wander around in black robes gutting babies and eating intestine. "

What you write looked like a comment on a video you don't like to me.But it was all yourself,o.k..
Sorry for question,then.

Waster postet:
" Which satanists are shit? "

Well,i exclude "style-satanists",who just like to dress up their way.
Real satanists,who are organised,are shit.

[AnarchyAo2]

I think we could make a novel out of this topic.

[HugeHarHar]

I enjoy the turn this forum has taken. It began off of some complelty bias and foolish topic to a very interesting and for the most part intelligent topic. I must congradualte Devilock for contributing as much knowledge as he has. Some others have simply been biting his words just because they aren't willing to think about what he has to say.

We have had leaders of all kinds through out our history. We've had leaders who completly disregarded the congress and senate and did what they wanted to or what they thought was needed. FDR and Lincoln are prime examples. Both spent money without congresses consent, and both led the United States out of destruction, at least for that moment. A politican is simply a proffesional liar. To lead a country as large and diverse as the US, then you can only please a certain amount of people.

While I can only speak for the US, because I've only lived here, I know that every country through out history has had leaders who were led there country into the dirt, or out of it.

[Wastrel]

Originally posted by softdrawer
i never planned on using guns since i don't see the point of its being and there isn't any. Foolishly you will disagree. i have guns. i am not a big person or exceedingly strong, and if one day someone much bigger and stronger than i comes into my home and tries to hurt the people i love, i will shoot him in the face.

[Devilock138]

Originally posted by Waster
Jan:


Now you REALLY confuse me.

Use the context clue. I think he's German? (Jan?)

[Jan]

Wastrel:
What you think what chance is higher,that you or the people you love hurt themselves with your gun,or that you will defend yourself with that gun?

Wastrel postet:
" ...i will shoot him in the face. "

Is this your favourite fantasy?
Do you sleep with your gun under your pillow?
What about fantasies like "...then i would hold my gun and shout:stop,you ~ " or,somewhat more dramatically "...then i would shoot him in his arm."


Devilock138: I have asked you if you know about the believes of the extremist christian at armageddon and wtc.If i would be asked about christians here in germany i would not know what to say.But you are from bible-belt and i'm interested,do you(or s.o. else) know about it?


Waster:There are other S&B-links in the thread.You could read about it if you are interested.
So,what you postet,was it about satanists?All "organisations" are bad for ego,because they are anti,exept the satanist,that is not really an organisation,but something better(anti-organisation?)?
Do you have contact with satanists?
They are not an "organisation of those who walk alone"-if they walk alone they could not be organized,in the church of satan or whatever.
They have a strict hierachy,all that freedom is for leader/inner circle.

[haha]

jan:

the basic belief (no detail here) is that all who believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth, the so-called Christ, will be simultaneously evacuated from this planet.This will be followed by plague and warfare, and the emergence of a "beast" who will rule for a short time. Then, Jesus when then return (the "second coming"), ending the beast's reign and establishing his kingdom for the millenia to come.

*please note: in order to easily communicate this idea, i approached it as objectively as possible. I did not mean to offend. If you would care to know my stance on this issue, please email me at aargghh05@yahoo.com*[B] *please note: in order to easily communicate this idea, i approached it as objectively as possible. I did not mean to offend. If you would care to know my stance on this issue, please email me at aargghh05@yahoo.com

[Waster]

The Church of Satan is an organization for those satanists who wants to join the church (those who walk alone). The whole idea was that those who needed some sort of organization could join, while most are unorganized, thus walk alone. LaVey only called his way of living satanism to avoid that he got members such as christians.

I dont know any hardcore satanists. By that I mean i know none who perform the satanic rites and seremonies. Without the seremonies, it all boils down to "taking responsibility for your own actions". That sounds awfully normal and unreligious, dont you think?

[Jan]

Waster:
real,or "hardcore-" satanism is not bound to show it.It's real because of their actions.They don't have to show it because it would be mostly a hindrance(dont know what satanists are in the US).
It's not a club of people who want "to take responsability for their actions",they have control over their minions so they are protected from consequences.
So i cannot exclude that there are some nice people who just want to have sm.thng original to identify with,and having (yet) nothing to do with other satanists they took satanism.In general satanist are nazi-like sects,because they believe in evil and nazis have committed genozide.

haha:
Is there the believe(is it common) that armageddon is necessary because of this?

[Jan]

http://people.freenet.de/INsektjan/godgiven.jpg

[Redder]

Theres a article in the Los Angeles Times (Tuesday, Mark 23, 2004) in the Calendar section entitled "What binds Bush, Kerry: They're both members of Skull and Bones...".