Hawkprey's girlfriend (nudity)

[carlo]

I made this piece after being inspired by hawkprey's work.

http://home.earthlink.net/~c705/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cyborg.jpg

[Skank]

:eek:

now THATS sexah!
and who CANT be inspired by hawkprey eh?:D

wow, i think you should turn this into a "hawkprey chick" thread, cuz ive just been inspired myself!

[darkcult]

Just brilliant ( in a right*click*save kind of a way)!

Nice one.

[Lono]

HOLY shit!

i am now a huge fan.

-LOno

[Living Rope]

Boo-Ya !!! excellent !

[carlo]

Thanks all, she started off as a class demo and hawkprey's stuff made me want to finish her. along with some crits from Coondoggle on the original design

[c0g]

Awsome

[gasmask]

yeah man, thats hella tite, post more often if you can.

[Maximillion]

Wow. Great work... wow.
I like everything, from the incredibly sexy body to your use of detail for focus, and the face which is hot, but very interesting as well.
Great work, please post more of your stuff.

[Arwar]

OMG that's riduculously amazing!!

I wanna see more!:eek:

[vanilla]

The mechaniscs of the arm are done really really well. Her face and hair are also really nice. You could have turned her into a better character instead of doing the naked thing with her though:o. Nice bod none the less

[Travis_Bourbeau]

damnit hwkpreys wife is cool wish i could have a girlfriend on the side like that great work

[I.was.ink]

Wonderfully executed. I love your handle of those soft transition tones.

iwasink

[Prometheus|ANJ]

Fantastic! Very inspiring.
I like how the values are quite flat, I need to do that myself (I'm still suffering from the highlighting decease). The mechanical arms also made me realize that I need to spend time on perspective and stuff, since it looks awesome.

I liked your tdome entry too, one of my favs.

[malus]

The "pools" of color that form her pelvis kind of remind me of Vermeer, contrasts really nicely with the hardware.

Can't wait to see more WoW concept work.

[Matt Dixon]

Boing! Big thumbs up here - superb!

[lavhoes]

Wow...your use of color is amazing.

And that is an awesome, unique pose.

How long did this take you?

[hoopa]

dang

[heiesuke]

inspiring. love it

[Paulo]

Her skin is superb. Your rendering is both economic and accurate.

Cheers,

Paulo

[azjohnl]

wow! hawkprey's girlfriend is a sexy cyborg? ;)
oh wait, i understand now!

Definately a very nice drawing, looks gorgeous is about all I can say!

[espaki]

Amazing work! The mechanics, character, skin, everything.

The one crit I have is that the little bit of linework on the stomach seems to throw me off. The rest of the skin is nice and painterly, except the few lines there.


otherthan that tho.....:eek:

-Nate

[Josef K.]

WOW! looks awesome

[unknown]

very nice work man!

Could you please tell me how you did that.

Did you use photoshop or painter?

Was it sketched then scanned? i ask this cause when i sketch with my wacom i cannot get straight lines as i would when
sketching on paper. AND you got some nice lines on her
arms.

I really love this kind of work. Feels like a manga piece.

Thanx in advance :):D

[carlo]

Thanks guys, she took me five hours to complete. The detail in the arm was probably the toughest thing because i'm not a trained trans or product designer like Feng is. As for the painting of the girl, all that stuff I learned from Kevin Chen so he would be able answer any questions about painting better than I can, but i can go into my process a little bit. In this case i made a sketch which I scanned into Photoshop. I turned it to a multiply layer and created a layer beneath the multiply one in which to paint on. I did my underpainting there. I also created a layer on top of the multiply layer in order put the highlights and areas of color where I wanted to cover up the line work.

-C

[Feng]

Hey Carlo,

great to see you on this forum! A most excellent welcome!

Man, i love this piece, can look it all day.

Dood, what are you talking about w/ the whole "i'm not a ID guy?" You crazy....that arm is better than anything i've done. Love the design....(claw / gatling combo). The joints are well worked out too.....niiice..

I need to come down there for a visit....tell everyone i said hi.

-feng

[teflon_5150]

That is AWESOME! I'd love to model that. Do you think you could make a couple more angles of her, in different poses and angles?

Thanks,
-tef

[Loga4]

WoW,that is apslolutly awesome!
Congrats,carlo!

[carlo]

Originally posted by Prometheus|ANJ
Fantastic! Very inspiring.
I like how the values are quite flat, I need to do that myself (I'm still suffering from the highlighting decease). The mechanical arms also made me realize that I need to spend time on perspective and stuff, since it looks awesome.

I liked your tdome entry too, one of my favs.

No way dude your chicks are soo much better than mine, I try to paint like you

[Presence]

Carlo this is simply killer, not a single crit except it is too good, please refrain from anymore kick ass drawings for the rest of the week so I can look at myself with some dignity ahahahaah.

Just awsome man.

Cheers

[sparth]

i must admit that this is the best and smartest character design i have seen in a while. bravo carlo!

sparth

[Kress]

I am literally in love with this image. There are too many good things about it to go on...

Please answer me this: did you use ref for the body?

[Steph Laberis]

This is without question a professional and skilled piece. Lovely skin tones and great expression make this a cute image, but not in the saccharine way. The feet kind of bother me in their stylization; the look unfinished and such. And personally, although she's a cutie, the nudity feels a little gratuitous and sort of cheapens the pic. Personal opinion though.

Beautiful work overall.

[Titan]

nice piece man...lots of skill..has Hawk seen this yet?

[dfacto]

To tell the truth I am not diggin the woman. There is no reason for her to be there in my opinion, and I just don't feel that it does much for the pic except add a healthy dose of T&A. But that's just my opinion.

What blew my socks off and floored me were the arms. THAT is what I want to be able to do, and I have been trying to achieve that for a long time. In fact that same hand design is something that has run through my mind many many times, and I am extremely happy that I could see it realized with your rendering skills. Um, btw, where did you learn to do mechanical stuff like that?

Oh and you're my new hero.

[carlo]

to tell you the truth I'm mostly a "Monster guy" and that's how I started, doing stuff for Rick Baker and ADI and Stan Winston. I learned to do Mechanical stuff from my friend Warren Fu and looking at Feng's stuff and mostly teaching myself by looking at Ron Cobb's drawings.

[Madman!]

Okay I'm probably going to look stupid asking this. Okay this is for Carlo and anyone else that has an answer. I see that people are saying the mechanics on the arm work. I was wondering what I would need to learn to do that kinda stuff. Do you just study machines, parts? If it's totally made up I don't see how you can make it work unless you knew hella about machines or whatever. Is there some books out there that would help? I guess I never really seen anything on the boards that explain machines or maybe I just missed it.

and Carlo you got to be making some kinda site or something your art is just amazing. If I had a fraction of your talent I would happy as could be. Please post more soon I'm an addict now.

[carlo]

Ok, if you have access to James Cameron's sketches for the Powerloader that is a good start. I also love tractors cause big machines are cool. Look at how some real life robots are put together. study what technologies might be possible in the future.
http://www.phoxim.de/walter_mueller_powerloader/walter_mueller_ploader.html


take a look at spinefinger's stuff. It's like learning to speak a language, you can't speak the language before learning words, then you learn to put the words together. Find out what an actuator and what a hydraulic piston is, what is a ball and socket joint? You should know these words like you know pectorals, or clavicle or sartorius If you want to create a realistic monster you have to research animal anatomy, so what is robot anatomy?

[Madman!]

cool thanks for the tips I'll have to dive in and do some research. Anything on a site in the works?

[hawkprey]

ya man..............I have this as my desktop now.

I rate this as one of my all time favorites from any artist. Everything about it is awesome!

I too am inspired and cant wait until I have time to do some cyberborg chicks again.

You da man Carlo.

[Bomba]

Always a treat to see your work being posted. Now... when can we see some more creature stuff?

[Shadowkiller]

Very cool like man keep them coming

[Main Loop]

Originally posted by hoopa
dang

yeah.

i do wish you would post more, but being a professional, that limits it right? you are one of my favorites among favorites around here

[Briareos]

the great thing about this piece is that her breasts aren't FOUR times the size of her head, as they are in every single hawkprey drawing.

[Killer Napkins]

dude this rocks .. the are is freakin awesome.. i love how you have the hydrolic type things put on there it works well! great job

[tegehel]

excellent!

C.

[Aikisean]

Nice rendering! Great job on the design. But for GOD SAKES MAN, put some clothes on her. It's just another tart with a weapon. I'm sure the ladies who frequent this site are getting tired of the pinups.

[carlo]

Originally posted by Aikisean
Nice rendering! Great job on the design. But for GOD SAKES MAN, put some clothes on her. It's just another tart with a weapon. I'm sure the ladies who frequent this site are getting tired of the pinups.

Okay, I dont know if you are saying this with any kind of irony or if you are serious. If you have a critique with the technique or with the design, that's one thing but to presume to dictate what the subject matter is or should be does irritate me.

She is in fact a tart with a gun, i just wanted to paint something sexy. If I were actually intent on designing a character with depth or history, I would have done so.

None of the women in my life found this painting objectionable and many of my favorite artists have painted or drawn pinups. The list includes Gil Elvgren, Adam Hughes, Dave Stevens, and Frank Frazetta. The artists on this board should be free to paint what they want without the PC police coming in to tell them what is or what is not appropriate subject matter.

Do you have a problem with JC Leyendecker painting pinups of men? Or would you object to the rather graphic depictions of violence that are posted on these forums, something which is far more harmful and pornographic than the pinups we paint.

I apologize for going off but this is a sensitive subject matter to me.

-C

[Aikisean]

Originally posted by carlo


Okay, I dont know if you are saying this with any kind of irony or if you are serious. If you have a critique with the technique or with the design, that's one thing but to presume to dictate what the subject matter is or should be does irritate me.

She is in fact a tart with a gun, i just wanted to paint something sexy. If I were actually intent on designing a character with depth or history, I would have done so.

None of the women in my life found this painting objectionable and many of my favorite artists have painted or drawn pinups. The list includes Gil Elvgren, Adam Hughes, Dave Stevens, and Frank Frazetta. The artists on this board should be free to paint what they want without the PC police coming in to tell them what is or what is not appropriate subject matter.

Do you have a problem with JC Leyendecker painting pinups of men? Or would you object to the rather graphic depictions of violence that are posted on these forums, something which is far more harmful and pornographic than the pinups we paint.

I apologize for going off but this is a sensitive subject matter to me.

-C

You have every right to paint whatever you want and I have the right to make my comment. If you don't like my comment, fine. Ignore it. Why the hell do you care what one person says anyways when there are so many here that look beyond the tart with a gun and see your skill for what it is? Besides, I like the piece. Honest! But the subject matter IS getting a bit stale, IMO.

-Sean

[buckminster076]

Amen
I like the life-like gesture coupled with the stylization. Inspiring.
Thanks.
-I.

[carlo]

Not once did I say that you don't have the right to say what you have to say. You can in fact say it as often as you like and although i did not like your comment i thought it an important comment. It was the subject of you comment and not how it related to my piece that I was responding to. Heck if it was a personal attack I would have ignored it but you just happened to comment about something that i felt was important.

As I said, post away. It's important to have a dialogue about these things.

Stale or not, the subject matter is fun and pays my bills.

And to quote my wife, "If you have boobs in your portfolio then you will never be out of work".

-C

[buckminster076]

The amen was for carlo's statement.
Fun is imperative.
-I.

[faithrenee]

carlo,

you have really good technique and design.

I want to say how I personally feel without offending you. So I apologize before hand if I do offend you.

This is a very sensitive subject to me ALSO because it is the depiction of my gender. I see alot of males depicting women as sex objects - your image is more sexy than sex object but still I am having a vey difficult time distinguishing the two nowadays. When I go into videogame stores or onto the forums (conceptart or cgtalk) I hear all kinds of derorgatory comments like "tornado teets rock", "Great camel toe", really rude comments. Although men are stereotyped also, I don't hear comments like Onimushu's dork rocks, yum yum yum. Not that I think that is appropriate.

I know there are not alot of derogratory comments in this thread, I am glad for that.

One rose can stand for all roses though.
I believe art is a reflection of oneself.
I work in multimedia industry and get cd-roms and demo reels with the content "women as sex objects theme" and I will not hire these people simply because if that is all they draw, maybe they believe that women are really nothing but sex objects. Since I don't want to have any sexual harassment lawsuits on my hands I do not hire them. Maybe they are just really lonely men, I don't know. Would like to know your opinion.

[nardfrog]

Doo, Im pretty sure the left boob is real. I touched it, and eh... it felt pretty real.

I like to see how other ppl attach metal to flesh, cuz mine is always really gory and messy.

Props

[carlo]

I am not offended at all. As any other person you have to follow the dictates of your own conscience and this is a good subject on this fine valentine's day.

Consider though that an artist that is always drawing horrific monsters is not necessarily a serial killer. Many of us have heard "You're always drawing scary things, what's wrong with you?"

But as I have said before, listen to your own conscience, if you feel that the men represented by these demo reels do not represent what you are trying to create then do not hire them.

Also, food for thought, men are objectified differently from women. At the post office once I saw a poster asking young men to register for selective service with the slogan "A man's gotta do what a mans gotta do" and a picture of a strong young man on the poster. Imagine if that poster had a picture of a pregnant girl with the slogan "A woman's gotta do what a woman's gotta do."

Thank you for your POV Faithrenee.

-c

[Killer Napkins]

haha .. someone seriously said tornado teets? lol what a loser...

[brads3d]

boobs gender stereo blah? thats a fuckin awesome picture

[NOOSE]

(faithrenee)-""women as sex objects theme" and I will not hire these people simply because if that is all they draw, maybe they believe that women are really nothing but sex objects."

VERY BAD ASUMPTION,

You would think anyone who takes the time and patience in life to learn to paint and render a women`s naked body to a level of quality such as this, would have the highest respect and regard for their subject matter.......its kind of ironic and you might even be shooting yourself in the foot by turning away men who respect and admire the female form in turn for a guy who who only draws big guns and hot cars and who cares very little about the grace and the powerfull Seductiveness of the female form, (and its effect on men)


Most people that paint wolves, horses, and or exotic birds ALL their life to my knowledge, are not that likely to go out and do them any specific harm,... they paint them because they are facinated or have a higher level of respect for these creatures then most,....infact these people are usualy the FIRST to rise up and defend or protect their subject matter...

[c0g]

I have to agree with Noose... How many talented artists have you turned away because you judged them a pervert before even meeting them?

[Killer Napkins]

yeah the only ones that may think of women as sex objects are those hentai guys .. hentai anime stuff.. come on u guys know what im talkin about.. ;) but let me comment on this drawing again..


fuckin sweet man!!

[Titan]

This topic and piece is obviously stiking a chord with people(nicely done) so I'm gonna add my two cents...

first off the piece Rocks...great execution, awesome use of creativity, rendering technique, composition, and attention to detail. the expresion on her face is terrific and conveys alot of personality. overall the piece has a cool "spark of imagination" that is realy satisfying to see in art of this nature. and you cant deny the " coolness" factor!

as far as objectifying or degrading women.....please....let it go.... it is absurd that anyone would chastise an artist for painting a nude figure.....its only been the major subject of art since people learned to scribble, and it is beyond obvious that there are no alterior motives behind this work.

It is an imaginative image with a tasteful, realistically shaped woman...does that make him a pervert?

and honestly, like it or not... the entertainment industry usually perpetuates men with rippling muscles, and curvacious
women. people like their heroes and heroines to be larger than life, but I dont get offended when I see an artist drawing a man with bulging muscles...

to say you wouldnt hire an artist just because he had a nude woman in his protfolio(despite his skillset) seems really weak.
Would you hire Michael angelo or Davinci if they were alive today?

[Crash]

GREAAAT pic man, if my mother didnt use the computer i would totally use it as a desktop.

[Aikisean]

Originally posted by NOOSE
(faithrenee)-""women as sex objects theme" and I will not hire these people simply because if that is all they draw, maybe they believe that women are really nothing but sex objects."

VERY BAD ASUMPTION,

You would think anyone who takes the time and patience in life to learn to paint and render a women`s naked body to a level of quality such as this, would have the highest respect and regard for their subject matter.......its kind of ironic and you might even be shooting yourself in the foot by turning away men who respect and admire the female form in turn for a guy who who only draws big guns and hot cars and who cares very little about the grace and the powerfull Seductiveness of the female form, (and its effect on men)


Most people that paint wolves, horses, and or exotic birds ALL their life to my knowledge, are not that likely to go out and do them any specific harm,... they paint them because they are facinated or have a higher level of respect for these creatures then most,....infact these people are usualy the FIRST to rise up and defend or protect their subject matter...

I believe faithrenee is refering to the demeaning portrayal of the nude female in such works as hentai and other pornographic industries. Anybody that has attended art school has drawn the female form in one shape or another. You can tell those drawings are studies in form. Those that faithrenee comes across in an interview are usually sexual in nature and depicts the woman as a sexual object and not a depiction of beauty.
If the female form is so beautiful, why is it that only one female body type is ever drawn? I'm talking about the athletic/busty female with good muscle tone. Why not the obiese or the elderly or even the child? Do these forms too constitute beauty of the female form? Thats why I say "Tarts with weapons" are stale. It's the same thing over and over again.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's todays fashion to only show the athletic and nubile. Maybe "boobs" in a portfolio get you the job as carlo's wife said. But we are ALL ARTISTs with the gift of showing beauty in all it's forms. Why not show women in other forms and be different.
Just my opinion.

[Travis_Bourbeau]

What bothers the hell out of me is closed minded people ! Carlo executed this image with a skill few other people can match, to say images like this are stale is your personal opinion and your entitled to it but its alot like saying im tired of first person shooter games or tired of science fiction movies. Im not atacking anyone for having an opinion but i belive theres a difrence to an artist who takes his time to execute an image like this and someone who simply is posting a pic of a women in a degrading way. It might be considered a bit degrading to think we all are american and view nakedness as degrading.


As as modeler, i find that i could easily model the arms to this girl in a few hours exact but it takes time to be able to match the subtlties that make the feamale form atractive and that doesnt mean big boobs either.


I only am posting this because it sucks when threads start to go this way and artist stop posting work because of it if you dont like it cool we do !




I work at studio as well, and if you have two guys banging a hump back whale executed with bad ass skill i'd hire you! Is'nt that basicly what its about skill not just personal likes dislikes ? maybe im bieng closed minded




Regards
Trav

[faithrenee]

Cog and Titan,

You didn't read my full comment. I don't mind people drawing nude women. I went to a college and understand life drawing is extremely important. I don't mind even tastefully sensual women drawings. However, drawing "women as sex objects" is something completely different.

I wrote to carlo and said his work is more sexy than sex object.

Where I work, I design military courseware that teaches army recruits how to use equipment that will save their life when they are at war. It has nothing to do with "women as sex objects." I get lots of cd-roms and demo reels with only "women as sex objects" content. I hire people with life drawing skills, 3d skills such as tanks, and Apaches, etc. I hire appropriate to my job. I am not in the porn industry and don't hire people that send me portfolios more appropriate for porn.

I write in about sexism because it is something that I have had to deal with. Women still do not get equal pay yet, and although its close, it stilll is not completely equal yet. I don't write in about violence because violence has not affected me. I don't write in about men being stereotyped because I feel if it bothers men then they can defend themselves and write in about it.

I think it would be fine for videogames to do whatever they want (big breasted women) whenever young males can grow up and not say things like "tornado tits." But which is going to happen first though?

This is getting away from carlo's piece which should be the focus. Sorry carlo.

[N D Hill]

When you think about it, really all portrayals of the ideal human form are objectifications buy some of the standards stated here. they don't represent a specific person but rather people as we feel they should be and as we would want to look at them. They did it in the renaissance (just look at the sistine chapel ceiling and Donetello's scultures) and they do it now. An artists job is to find beauty try to pay it proper homage even if it doesn't nessicarily reflect a literal interpretation of reality. Wether you consider that as a sign of someone's head being in a gutter or as a sincere tribute is up to you. I see this as the latter. I guess what I'm saying is it depends on apperent attitude of the piece.

I definitely do recognise that there are people out there who depict their "subject matter" in a degrading way as a reflection of their own desires. They depict a highly generalized and nonspecific figure that fit their ideals not only of in how they should look, but also with the self-degrading and submissive attitudes they feel they should take on. I believe whole-heartedly that this type of "art" is sexist, degrading, and that it's only purpose is to realize the desires of the so called "artist" and not observe the inherrent beauty of whatever form they're trying to portray.

Violence can be the same way. Our culture seems to gloryfy conflict. Either side of such a conflict is boring by itself so we love to see them clash. I've always wondered why, especially since I too love a good action movie or fight scene. I also believe that violence too can be abused as subject matter in which case innocent death is glorified or human being is robbed of that humanity in order to ease the sight of their deaths. In the 17th century, catholics and protestants both depicted the other as naked barbarians. And WWII propaganda was filled with these types of images. In a history class i had a couple semesters ago, we watched some propaganda videos that they use to play at movie theaters before the feature. They'd depict japanese soldiers as large savage gorilla-like barbarians. Essentailly the message was "your enemy isn't human like you so killing him is easy, So get out there and serve your country and fellow humans!" We do the same thing in our media too. Arabs are highly generalized as terrorists wether or not our politicians and media people know this or not, it happens. People are afraid to board plains with Arabs or anyone who "looks" muslim. This is of course not only stupid and subjective, but very harmfull and racist.

My point is that we should not judge art by generalized classifications whether or not it simply contains "nudity" or "violence." You have to dig a bit deeper and try to recognise an intended attitude. This can be hard, which is why I guess we tend to take the easier route of just looking for nudity or blood so we don't have to take any risks in what we expose ourselves to.

...Oh, and great piece Carlo. I'm sorry your thread turned into a big debate when the intended focus was such a cool piece of work.

[Aikisean]

Originally posted by cerreto_
What bothers the hell out of me is closed minded people ! Carlo executed this image with a skill few other people can match, to say images like this are stale is your personal opinion and your entitled to it but its alot like saying im tired of first person shooter games or tired of science fiction movies. Im not atacking anyone for having an opinion but i belive theres a difrence to an artist who takes his time to execute an image like this and someone who simply is posting a pic of a women in a degrading way. It might be considered a bit degrading to think we all are american and view nakedness as degrading.



Dude, I know you are talking to me so just speak directly to me, ok.

First, I'm not closed minded. I like carlos work, I have already said so in previous comments if you can read my comments a little more carefully.

Second, I respect his skill but after seeing the same subject matter over and over again, you begin to think this IS the only thing people want to see on these forums. I mean, sexy babes with guns get more comments then any other work. If you don't believe me, look up some of MY work and compare the number of comments with any thread that has nudity. And if this means that you guys will atack my work, GREAT!!! Tell ME it sucks and how I can do to fix it. TELL ME that my work isn't any good. But tell me why it isn't.

Third, if you are going to comment about what someone wrote, READ THE ENTIRE COMMENT!!

I've drawn women too. I've drawn them in provacative poses. But I test the waters of variety and try to find new things to draw.

I apologize for using this thread to make my point. Carlos work is good.

-Sean

[c0g]

faithrenee, It was just this part that bothered me.
Since I don't want to have any sexual harassment lawsuits on my hands I do not hire them.

I understood what you meant, and it is understandable if you don't hire artists who don't create the kind of art you need for your work. What isn't understandable to me is to not hire an artist who could create the artwork better than other applicants, but just because you judge they will sexually harass women you don't hire them. I can understand not hiring some guy who draws graphic depictions of sex... but if he just likes to draw "pin-ups" or "bombshells"? Seems kind of unfair to judge someone without ever meeting him and that is the way it sounded to me. If that isn't the case then please take my apology.

[visualboo]

Well said Trav.

Just remember everyone, it's all about the skill... period. Maybe if the people doing the hiring looked past the content and saw a llittle deeper they might actually hire a skilled artist. Lots of artists don't want to draw in their spare time the boring whatever they might have to do for work.

Cool image btw. New wallpaper set :D

[Cinsev]

just to try and rein in this thread,

1. man that work is a serious piece of supergoodness.....love the colour and the feel in the drawing.....my only complaint and its a small one, man those arms must weigh a ton, and im asking this seriously cause i would love to hear how you figured it out in your head (one of my fav things to do in concept work) how are they attached in a way that prevents them from ripping off her torso.....?

2. everybody here has valid points, so this isnt aimed at anyone in particular......but the disscussion has taken a turn for "the snake eating its own tail" if you take my meaning......arguing in cirlces just wastes energy from our creativity and working together to learn from each other as artists. very interesting topic but not one that can be solved i think.

3. sorry for my preachyness. aaaaaaaand goodnight

;)

[morgoth]

I was wondering that myself.. how are the robotic arms attached? are the like fused into the shoulder blades? now about being heavy and ripping her apart I would jsut say they are made out of super light/strong metals :)

[Cinsev]

Morgoth: Good point, but if they are industria,l heavier materials are more useful/cheaper, if they are combat then you are right, they would be perfect....anyway, im a big nerd who is never getting laid from his girlfriend again after this post.....she will just know i was this kinda nerd....again.

[morgoth]

no no I think the same way.. only difference is that I get laid.. anyways beautiful work carlo.. it's got me drawing again! then again your art work has always made me want to draw :)

rock on :chug:

[EVIL]

Lol, I wont lett her put the condom on me :) I'l do it myself!, with those hands I will loose my dick!

and we dont want that!

[panzerman]

ABSOLUTELY GREAT painting, inspired me to mix some mecha and the beauty of flesh- very elegant way of rendering mecha-arm, the fact that you've left the warm linework underneath makes it blend into the organic ... (do i make any sense? IT'S AWESOME)

Bravo...

[panzerman]

the whole spine is aicraft grade duraluminium,
and arms are conected to it indirectly tru shoulder blades
I LOVE THIS PAINTING,

[afklamer]

Intresting threat...

Very nice work , althoug its my absolute nightmare, loosing my arms ^^

[softdrawer]

foolishness

[dfacto]

Blah blah blah, people wrote stuff...

My further two cents:

Great pic, excellent execution, theme coulda been better.

Everyone and their mother is drawing nude chics with guns.
Only a few people draw mechs, and draw them well.


YOU carlo, CAN draw mechs well. So why the hackneyed Tits and Ass. Believe me I have nothing against nude females, (on the contrary), but I must say that I like to see cool concepts executed, and those mechanical arms just scream for a badass mech to go with them.

Yes, yes, its your call and I don't blame you for it at all, but I would have worshiped you if you had drawn a whole mech instead of just the arms and some cyborg-tart as filler.

[carlo]

Originally posted by dfacto
Blah blah blah, people wrote stuff...

My further two cents:

Great pic, excellent execution, theme coulda been better.

Everyone and their mother is drawing nude chics with guns.
Only a few people draw mechs, and draw them well.


YOU carlo, CAN draw mechs well. So why the hackneyed Tits and Ass. Believe me I have nothing against nude females, (on the contrary), but I must say that I like to see cool concepts executed, and those mechanical arms just scream for a badass mech to go with them.

Yes, yes, its your call and I don't blame you for it at all, but I would have worshiped you if you had drawn a whole mech instead of just the arms and some cyborg-tart as filler.

OK OK ALREADY!

BTW, This image is a WIP

http://home.earthlink.net/~c705/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mech12.jpg

proceed with the worshipping my german friend:D

[Titan]

nice mech carlo....!! very cool, reminds me of one of my fav games...armoured core:)

[dfacto]

YES!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!!

*dances a merry jig*

btw don't skimp out with the perspective on the left foot like that man. :nono:

*continues dancing*

and the worshipping has begun, in case you didn't know.

[Big-Dave]

Great job on the arms, detail's way more than I could manage yet. As for the body, the right side of her stomach from the rib cage down seems a bit flat, otherwise it looks great :D

Don't know why so many people have gone up in arms about the subject. So you decided to draw a naked woman, what's wrong with that? It's not as if you had her doing anything explicit, she's just standing there :\

[Maximillion]

I just want to point out again that I love this piece.

I notice a lot of themes that people create art regarding. Sexy ladies, mechs/futuristic vehicles, orcs, fairies, anime, etc... the list goes on.

And yes I see the theme of sexy or non-threatening characters accompanied or altered so that a part of the image is threatening.

The deal here, is that it's done well. That it's a cheeky image. (Look at that look on her face!) That the woman is not generic, or weirdly proportioned, or being demeaned. In fact it's the first image in a long time I've seen that is able to display the horrific concept in such an attractive way.
PLUS the tech beautifully juxtaposes the soft curves of her tastefully rendered body. The image would not be as good if it was just her standing there nude without the mech arms, or if she was wearing clothes that broke those curves.

You rock carlo.

[tegehel]

Carlo, man, draw whatever you want, whenever you want. This is just feedback, to be taken with a grain of salt the size of Rhode Island. You rock!

C.

[hoopa]

Nice mech Carlo. Very cool design

As for the bickering about the first image guys, just be thankful you have the time and skills necessary to be able to do artwork this good. I know I'll never get anywhere near the level that some of you guys in this forum (like carlo) are at.

[Sok N. Wett]

DAMN that girl is hot!! Nice coloring there, any tutorials in the future???

[Killer_Platypus]

First things first, Carlo its an awesome image. Your skill and construction is top notch. Draw whatever the hell you want. Hopefully these comments from some of the more closed minded people on this forum won't prevent you from posting tons more of your work, because as a student I realy admire your abilities.

Second, for everyone saying saying that this is just a rehash of the same old subject matter honestly must not really take a hard look at the image. As stated before she is not just a generic character. She actually feels like a living breathing entity. How many people can you honetly say has work that just looks like it could jump off the page. The nudity was done in a tasteful manner and helps depict the image as it should be depicted. The mix of curves and metal makes for a very sexy piece indead.

Third, for everyone crying about the nudity or how the woman in this image is being shown, face it we're all artists here. Nudity is bound to be part of some peoples' work. Its not like this woman is in a compromising position. She is no being depicted as anything other than the character she is. She reads is the strong deadly type to me strictly based off how she is posed and the nasty smirk on her face. To post about someone else's artwork in this manner, saying things like "I wish your sbject matter was different" or "you shouldn't draw women like that because..." is going against what being an artist is about, pure expression. Do what you like to because its individuality that counts. If your going to complain about how someone is expressing the human form then are you going to knock thousands of years of art history? For god sake the first art artifact ever really found was a small figure of a nude woman. Go tell the Greeks and Romans they were wrong in depicting the human form as they did. Enough said.

Carlo I think your piece is truly awesome. If everyone wants to see more skill check out Carlo's experimental weapons of World War II post, its another great example of some fine craftsmanship. Way to go man.

[Kress]

OMG the new one is so clean. The sketch looks ultra-sharp, does it start out that way or do you block out and erase/clean up as you go?
Well done, lots said with only 3 colors.

[JackalAnubis]

wtf why are people COMPLAINING when a drawing badass like carlo posts an awesome drawing. no one here is drawing pictures to suite your aesthetic tastes. I mean offensive? wtf when did the natural human form become offensive? (repression!) it's not like this thing has some silly exaggerated female proportions or anything. if you want to see something that is TRUELY offensive check this out:
OFFENSIVE! (http://www.crackedanimations.com/drawings/poopypantsupchuk.jpg)
or maybe this?
THIS SHOULD REALLY BE A LARGER SIZE! (http://www.olinda.com/ArtAndIdeas/lectures/pics/sherman.jpg)

anyways you can voice your opinion if you want, but it sounds like whining to me, give the guy a break. maybe if you ask him nicely he'll draw you a "tasteful" picture of a unicorn jumping over a rainbow.

btw nice pics on both carlo! the second one is suberbly super sweet! and the other was my desktop when you first posted it

[panzerman]

i have no words, only stars- 5 of them.
i'm absolutely amazed.
thanks for the inspiration, i tend to get messy on mecha,
your stuff is clean yet living.
bra-vo

[gasmask]

im am now seriously a huge fan, i thought nathan campbell was above it all with his robot designs but this is awesome, dude when are u gonna make some dvd's or a book? i would love to see ur process and how u achieve that line quality, do u use ur whole arm and do everything freehand? awesome man

[carlo]

Would you guys be interested if I made a book?

[gasmask]

i would be more than interested.....sheeeit id pay some bank for a book by you.

also with the type of work you do, im sure with a website and if u start promoting ur art more here and other forums, ud def. sell alot of copies, ur basically on the same level as feng, nathan, hawkprey etc but with ur own style

oh and u HAVE to make a how to on ur mech process. seriously.

[shadow]

I'd most definatly pay for a book on your chicks and robots, seriously, i love drawing mecha, there are no good books out there with just mecha!:D

[circa1968]

Beautiful work carlo. Can't wait for more.

[dfacto]

I'd buy it. But only if it was mecha and mechanical things.

[scottg]

Oh yeah I'd buy it! It would be nice if you had a "how I work" section too.

scottg

[bRyaN]

i'd buy it...

include WIP and process shots, and i would be there like white on rice...

[panzerman]

carlo,
i'd buy ANY of your books, anytime.
it'll be another humbling experience

[Maximillion]

"Would you guys be interested if I made a book?"

Yes.....yes I would.

[Skank]

Originally posted by carlo
Would you guys be interested if I made a book?

umm
that would be a big HELL YES! :D
and i agree, you should put some WIP stuff in there, a step by step of how you paint or draw or whatever =)

but yes, id buy it in an instant

[egerie]

JackalAnubis, take the time to read the thread and how pragmatic people tried to remain. This is an adult discution.

Carlo, I like your work. You can portray sexyness with taste because you have skills.
My major beef when it comes to female being portraited as sex objects is when horny teenage boys draw their wishfull thinking and are actually being brainwashed by the media/fashion industry. No skill, no go. It's always a very fine line to thread upon.. You're close to the edge, but despite (?!?!) being female, I really liked that pic. I do hate the stupid comments such as "woah she's HOTTTTTTTTTTTT", tornado tits, etc. But eh, that's not up to the artist now is it.

[davi]

I personally don't think there is a line marker for sexual fantasy in art. I mean... isn't that some what part of the point of art? Creating worlds, fantasties, things, creatures, characters that wouldn't ever been seen any other way?

Carlo's work is personal art and isn't representing a company of any sort. He's at no point signed on as a role model either, so i say GO EVEN RACIER(sp?).

If carlo was doing erotic work for pepsi... then you might be able to complain.... maybe. cola breast do sound like a popular sell.

[JeniThus]

Ok.
I have to agree egerie:

My major beef when it comes to female being portraited as sex objects is when horny teenage boys draw their wishfull thinking and are actually being brainwashed by the media/fashion industry. No skill, no go. It's always a very fine line to thread upon.. You're close to the edge, but despite (?!?!) being female, I really liked that pic. I do hate the stupid comments such as "woah she's HOTTTTTTTTTTTT", tornado tits, etc. But eh, that's not up to the artist now is it.

There is a difference between sexuality in art, and sexuality as art. I don't get the sense of this piece being the latter, it is more the former. I don't think it needs to be racier, or be more provacative. Yeah, I'm a female, but I still really admire the making of this piece.
It's a nice piece, I wish she had a costume of some sort, I love the way her flesh is painted, but with giant industrial robot arms, the contrast is out of place to me.

[Flint]

GET OVER IT !!!

While you are complaining because you are tired of the blatant effects of the male libido cropping up in art, remember, without that tiresome male libido, you wouldn't exist. Off the wall, but seriously, have you ever realized that when a person paints a pretty flower, they are pretty much painting the plants genitalia? Think about it... sexuality and reproduction is everywhere in nature.

Carlo your artwork absolutely kicks ass, I'd buy a book from you, boobs or no boobs.


http://pages.prodigy.net/flint/Posts_Icons/boob4.gif

[Skank]

ok

wow

lol

i havent laughed that hard in a while...

[Madman!]

Originally posted by carlo
Would you guys be interested if I made a book?

Hell Yeah!!! I would buy that so fast. My wallet is burning a hole in my pocket just thinking about it.

[pogonip]

That last mech is freaking amazing.... some of the best mech design I have seen.....you should look at small publishers co-op on google ( super cheap print house ) you could print up an art book pretty cheap on your own and sell it for profit , i'd buy for sure !!

[Blackhawk]

Originally posted by Flint
GET OVER IT !!!

While you are complaining because you are tired of the blatant effects of the male libido cropping up in art, remember, without that tiresome male libido, you wouldn't exist. Off the wall, but seriously, have you ever realized that when a person paints a pretty flower, they are pretty much painting the plants genitalia? Think about it... sexuality and reproduction is everywhere in nature.

Carlo your artwork absolutely kicks ass, I'd buy a book from you, boobs or no boobs.


http://pages.prodigy.net/flint/Posts_Icons/boob4.gif

:rofl: lol, no kidding. Oh well, I'm not going to jump in this topic, everything has been said a thousand times over. I personally just believe that people need to lighten up and admire the skill. Carlo, I would buy your book.

[Cereal_Killer]

Love the style !

[GhostofMacbeth]

Beyond most definately :) .. So that would be a yes

[Flint]

What was this thread about??? I seem to have misremembered...

Oh ya, Carlo's awesome artwork.

DO OVER !!

http://home.earthlink.net/~c705/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cyborg.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~c705/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mech12.jpg


BUUUUYYYY THE BOOOOOOK, BUUUUUUYYYYY THE BOOOOOK !

[jwo]

bio mech gina gershon
HOT

[dfacto]

Hey Carlo, would it be appropriate if your worshipper nitpicked the hell out of your mech?

[JackalAnubis]

egerie- FYI, um glorification and idealization (sp?) of the female form is nothing new. check out this *obscene* female form from the 1st century BC
Yakshi Figure (http://cla.calpoly.edu/~jwetzel/India/slides/slides-jpg/BracketYakshi.jpg)

..oh yeah and put me down for a copy of carlo's book!

[carlo]

Originally posted by dfacto
Hey Carlo, would it be appropriate if your worshipper nitpicked the hell out of your mech?


hahaha, of course. I am but a student myself and began drawing mech's only recently. I am mostly a creature designer and not much of a mech guy. Besides, the only ones better at nitpicking than Germans are the Swiss, fire away.

BTW, great sculpture Jackal, loved the post.

[gekitsu]

carlo... definitely go for that book!
i'll buy. (and nitpick the hell out of it, as forced upon me by my heritage, muahaha:D)

as long as i can buy it through amazon, there is nothing that will stand between me and this book :)

[dfacto]

Wrong answer carlo, now you shall be buried under an avalanche of nitpicks! Feel free to disregard them though, since they are all opinion anyway.

Main Gripes:
1)The forearm-I have to say that I don't like them that much. The free-floating gatling gun barrel and the human hands destroy the feeling of brute strength that your original design conveyed. It looks weaker because of those two things and I think it would be better if the arms were done in the original style.It would also allow the theme of the mech to be carried on into the arms with the paint scheme going throughout. I also have to say that the elbow joint looks weaker as well. The original had that look of solidly built industrial componenets and this one looks more Anime inspired, with smoother components.

2)The knees and feet- I have to say that I don't like the legs from the knees down at all. The knees are far too flat and look rather uninteresting. That wouldn't be such a problem if the feet were better, and it might make the mech look tougher, but it doesn't work as is. But since the feet are the main problem here I will move on to them.
I don't like them. The heel doesn't make sense and the whole assembly disrupts the overall style of the mech. There is no armor on the foot, and it looks like powered skeletal system instead of the armored real-deal. The design is good (sans heel that is) but It would go more with the original arm plans with their more bared componenets and machined feel. This mech doesn't have a machined feel to it, and looks more like the parts were molded and assembled. To fix this I would add armor to the feet. :P But the bottom line is that I still dislike the heel. It looks very small and the fact that it is to one side only is odd from a structural standpoint because this would make the mech prone to tipping outwards if it was ever on one foot only. I would just make it symetrical with the heel on both sides, or just add something more substantial and aligned with the foot.

Minor Gripes:

-don't trust me on this, but I think the crotch plate has a perspective error. The frontmost edge looks like its more to the left side of the mech thatn the center. At least to me.

-The hip joint looks a bit underpowered when compared to the shoulder joint. This seems rather unpractical to me.

-The straight on perspective of the left foot is lame. Its what people like me do when they can't deal with the perspective and have to draw the thing anyway. If the perspective is a problem, then adding armor to the foot should simplify the task immensly.

-The canister thing on the right foot seems to be at a slightly wrong perspective when compared to the foot. But once again I could be wrong.

-The waist seems a bit thin as well. A bit more on the backside will make the suit look more substantial I think.

There's more where that came from, but those are the things I felt are worth mentioning. Don't hate me. :(

And I'm not German, I'm American. I just study here. But don't worry, I can bring the nitpicks just as well as any German.:evilbat:

[SicFrost]

Hey Carlo, I might have missed something but do you happen to have a book out, if so please tell me the name and where I can purchase it...and also you should get a site or start a sketchbook here at CA, Im sure every one would appreciate it man, your work is very inpiring.

thank you for all the insights

_B0R1S

[Turqy]

Nice stuff Carlo!

I knew those arms seemed familiar. :)

http://www.turqy.com/images/3d/madox_reference.jpg

That madox picture has always come in handy for mech reference.

[gasmask]

that has 3 barrels. more vulcan like, carlos is 6, like a gat, but the arms are bascially identical....well the bottom portion of the arm, thats kinda shady but its impossible to come up with a totally new mech design, you almost always have to borrow elements from past ones.

[Sammy]

This thread has gotten way way outa hand.... usually the mark of a good piece.

Turqy: good call out, the forearm is more or less traced.

I would like to see more of the references that were used if there are any.

either way carlos has excellent rendering abilities.

[gasmask]

i think flint needs a hug....no one was saying they had a problem with it, so ur post was pretty much a waste of space.

[Flint]

Sick of the "AHA YOU TRACED IT !" mentality around here.

[dfacto]

1) Madox 01:Metal Skin Panic has a whoopass mech suit in it. And it is an inspiration for me and obviously for carlo. It also uses the blunted forearm with the gatling gun very effectively.

2)So what if Carlo's looks similar. Best way to learn is to copy, and I dont blame him for doing that pic with those arms.

3)*saves pic into HD*

4)Keep it up carlo, don't listen to the heathen, they know nothing.:chug:

[SicFrost]

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH WEVE GOT A COPIER AMONG US!!!

who the fuk cares, hes good at what he does, and yes copying is one of the best ways to learn plus he has incorporated the image unto a naked chicks body, are most of you gay or just have a thing for metal? i think its no biggie..

_B0R1S

[morgoth]

a great man once said

"copying from one source is stealing, copying from many is researching."

so WHO CARES!

[Archangelus]

dfacto? I love your line # 4. Made me laugh.
Agree with your #2...

"Those who do not want to imitate anything, produce nothing."
-Salvador Dali

Peace y'all.

[JoshuaTheJames]

There is a LARGE difference between reference and completely ripping something off.

I don't spend all my time creating things on my own so some chumps can go and steal from other artists and get respect.



-Joshua The Ashamed!

[dfacto]

Originality eh?...

Good enough for you?

http://www.chaingunstudios.com/ArtGallery/Carlo/WWII%20MECH15.jpg

but carlo, don't ever do something like that and not post the reference, or say that you took it from reference. Then you get abuse when you get caught. And there is ALWAYS some sneeky bugger who knows where it came from. I actually knew from the start, since I have seen Madox like 100 times, and have some reference pics on my comp, but seeing as the whole shoulder is different, not to mention everything else, I didn't feel it mattered. And you know what? It doesn't. You gotta walk before you can run, and that applies particularly to drawing mechs. Keep it up.

And JOSHUATHERAVER, just chill. My grave is not for your excrement.

[Glenn K]

Excellent work Carlo!!

If you make a book.... I will buy.
If you post more work.. I will look.
If you make a tutorial.. I will study it.

I am also inspired by other artists work. And I'm sure their work is far more prevalent in my work then I realize. And for that, I am very grateful. I don't think the mechanical arm on the female is a rip off of the one on the Mech. It is similar, but far from identical.

Very well done

[Flint]

Originally posted by Glenn K
Excellent work Carlo!!

If you make a book.... I will buy.
If you post more work.. I will look.
If you make a tutorial.. I will study it.

I am also inspired by other artists work. And I'm sure their work is far more prevalent in my work then I realize. And for that, I am very grateful. I don't think the mechanical arm on the female is a rip off of the one on the Mech. It is similar, but far from identical.

Very well done

:chug: :chug: :chug:

I concur.


In an industry that, I am sorry to say that for the most part, looks so friggin homogenized, hackneyed, stale and stylistically suffocating, having one artist jump up and scram "COPYIST... (foaming and frothing) TRACERRRRR!" is hilarity exemplified. Everything has been done. Done 1000 times over. all anyone can really hope for is to combine a couple things in a slightly refreshing way, putting a little personal twist to the same meatloaf that everyone else is picking over...

Joshua, you should be ashamed. I just looked at your site. Same shit I seen everywhere else. Decent, but still, same shit different artist. Your arrogance is as refreshing as a gust of rectal methane.

[Jason Manley]

personally I like the changes carlo made to the arms. they make more sense in the shoulder area as well as the elbow in terms of how they work. that level of change to the lower arms would have quieted the critics down.

there is a lesson to be learned here I feel. the question you all should be asking...instead of attacking...is what is the point where enough change is present in order for it to be a new creation?

one can not be without influences. I use rembrandts and sargents palette almost daily. but one should also strive for change and as much unique design as possible. this piece has both. perhaps it is an example of both.

we need a thread topic started in this finished forums about this stuff...that way we can all be on the same page here.

j

[tegehel]

Copy nature and you infringe on the work of our Lord. Interpret nature and you are an artist.
- Jacques Lipchitz

Success is dangerous. One begins to copy oneself, and to copy oneself is more dangerous than to copy others. It leads to sterility.
- Pablo Picasso

An original artist is unable to copy. So he has only to copy in order to be original.
- Jean Cocteau

Learn hence for ancient rules a just esteem;
To copy Nature is to copy them.
- Alexander Pope

Each reader discovers for himself that, with respect to the simpler features of nature, succeeding poets have done little else than copy his similes.
- Henry David Thoreau

There is a constant in the average American imagination and taste, for which the past must be preserved and celebrated in full-scale authentic copy; a philosophy of immortality as duplication. It dominates the relation with the self, with the past, not infrequently with the present, always with History and, even, with the European tradition.
- Umberto Eco

And what is Genius but finer love, a love impersonal, a love of the flower and perfection of things, and a desire to draw a new picture or copy of the same? It looks to the cause and life: it proceeds from within outward, whilst Talent goes from without inward.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Look on Sculpture as history. I do not think the Apollo and the Jove impossible in flesh and blood. Every trait the artist recorded in stone, he had seen in life, and better than his copy.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

While one should always study the method of a great artist, one should never imitate his manner. The manner of an artist is essentially individual, the method of an artist is absolutely universal. The first is personality, which no one should copy; the second is perfection, which all should aim at.
- Oscar Wilde

Woe to the makers of literal translations, who by rendering every word weaken the meaning! It is indeed by so doing that we can say the letter kills and the spirit gives life.
- Voltaire

Shakespeare, who was considered the English Corneille, flourished at about the time of Lope de Vega. He had a strong and fertile genius, full of naturalness and sublimity, without the slightest spark of good taste or the least knowledge of the rules.... After two hundred years most of the outlandish and monstrous ideas of this author have acquired the right to be considered sublime, and almost all modern authors have copied him.... It does not occur to people that they should not copy him, and the lack of success of their copies simply makes people think that he is inimitable.
- Voltaire

Man is an idiot. He doesn’t know how to do anything without copying, without imitating, without plagiarizing, without aping. It might even have been that man invented generation by coitus after seeing the grasshopper copulate.
- Augusto Roa Bastos

We ape, we mimic, we mock. We act.
- Laurence Olivier

As far as modern writing is concerned, it is rarely rewarding to translate it, although it might be easy.... Translation is very much like copying paintings.
- Boris Pasternak

Drawing is a struggle between nature and the artist, in which the better the artist understands the intentions of nature, the more easily he will triumph over it. For him it is not a question of copying, but of interpreting in a simpler and more luminous language.
- Charles Baudelaire

[Turqy]

Hey now, I never yelled "Tracer!".

I think some of the coolest parts of the arm were actually added by carlo. Plus it doesnt look like he traced it and I never implied that.

But I do believe that you really need to post your references or inspirations if a large part of your art is taken from somewhere else. Theres always that chance that the original artist could be lurking about. I'm sure it would be intensely frustrating for them to see their art being used in someone else's piece without credit.

I've seen plenty of people here copying large parts of Daniel R. Horne's classic TSR art and, I guess, they thought, "hey.. he'll never see it". Though, now they're probably suprised to see he's actually a posting member of this board.

So, in the end, just be a considerate artist.

Carlo is very skilled but that doesnt mean he's free of the same restrictions that are placed on many of the lesser artists here.

[carlo]

I agree Turqy.

[Madman!]

Okay back to the real question at hand are we going to see a book and when can I buy it? and please post some new images I'm dying here.

[el coro]

okay. i'm tired of all the shit talking on this thread. you all need to shut up and go draw. i think its funny to see such a backlash over a set of boobs. this is an art forum. we should all be happy we have a monster like carlo posting here. if you are for some reason offended by this picture, you need to take a serious look at yourself, because its you that has a problem. if you feel somehow voilated by this image, go away, and dont come back until you are mature enough to handle it. and as for the whole "carlo ripped the arm off from some other guy " comment, please fuck offf. it seems like a whole lot of p[layer hating in this thread, and when i read the comments and whose posted them, it only reinforces that to me. learn from this piece, learn from carlo. i know i am. almost all of the people who nit picked and commented detrimentally toward this post have alot to learn, not just about constructive critiques, but also artistically, so intstead of shooting your mouths off on some old silly shit , go sit down with a pencil and paper, or infront of your monitors or however the fuck you may do it, and go draw. get good. get better than carlo, then you can comment constuctively. as you will be able to understand what is important about this piece. not the boobies(which are beautiful, by the way) or where you think he got that arm., which i dont personally think they resemble eachother hardly at all. certainly not enough to post someone elses work as reference. sorry if this post offends you, but i felt the need to get this off my chest after reading all 5 pages of this bullshit. NOW GO DRAW!-c36

[Sammy]

With all due respect, your rendering abilities and style are amazing. If you published a book I would buy it in a second... Hell I would recommend it to my professors and fellow students in the ID department.

I just feel that many of us artists that are trying really hard would be blacklisted for a stunt like this that follows the reference so closely.

http://www.securevirtualpages.com/~sammyha/onlineforums/cyborgdouble.jpg

Those of us that render machinery are few and far between, because it's not easy... and even harder to create an origional design. I try and gather my reference from photographs, ink abstractions, and dozens of thumbnails. I think my ip would be banned if I copied from other mecha.

[Killer Napkins]

yeah thats pretty exact .. but man make a book i would definately buy it!

[WalkingDead]

Ever heard the expression "everythings been done before"?
Try coming up with an original e-mail address or username, HA!
I think the piece rocks ass, and that's what this forum is about, not a bunch of insecure artists who wish their threads would go on this long. My work is no where near up to the calibur that some people present here, and I don't get anymore than 2 or 3 replies to my posts (by the way, check them out and C&C), but does that stop me posting? Hell, no!
If you want to copy something, go ahead, just don't try to call it your own or try to sell it...if you want to reference something, go ahead, It's all part of the process of becoming a better artist.

[dfacto]

The only thing that gets me about this is that if I, or any other less talented artist on this borad did this, we would be booed off the forum before you can say "pariah". The fact that carlo can draw and render well gives him the benefit of the doubt, which is sort of unfair. But whatever...

[EVIL]

Jesus Christ, you guys are sick! I bet everyone used some design as reference or used a specific part of someone else's art into his own design at some point in his life. And now you are all pointing fingers?

[carlo]

I don't have a problem with people calling me on my shit. helps with my evolution as an artist and human being and I thank everyone for the support. I agree with sammy and turqy. It's a mark in the life lesson category. now on to more art and no more biting on my part.

[Jason Manley]

so the solution to this is simple....if you are going to base designs on previous designs then change them enough to where it is unrecognizable from the original...at least as a direct reference.

when making designs, if you are using anothers as a starting point, your finishing point is when it no longer looks like a clone...but perhaps a brother or a sister...if ya know what Im saying.

for example, the top of the arms in carlos piece...they are similar in construction but they have totally different clarity and even look like they function..instead of hiding the parts that function as the original artist did.

agree?

disagree?

[Killer Napkins]

well they cant be twin brothers and sisters ;)

[Sammy]

Yea, the lesson is simple. Just post the reference/credit when used so closely to understand form. Just manners.

I'm done here, and I think we should all be. Lets let Carlos get back to making some kick ass renders.

:chug:

[Turqy]

so the solution to this is simple....if you are going to base designs on previous designs then change them enough to where it is unrecognizable from the original...at least as a direct reference.


The issue should probably be moved to the lounge since this is more of a general board etiquette problem.

I think changing the design isn't really necessary. The image is fine as long as references are stated. This standard has been upheld for all the beginner or less skilled artists on this board and many of them will post their references just to protect themselves from being banned. All artists here should receive the same treatment and none should be above it.

Writers are expected to site all their references so why are we not expected to do the same?

This really doesn't have anything to do with originality. God knows I've learned quite a bit from copying other's work. But what bugs me is that many of the people who defend the better artists' ability to copy work without reference are the same who would be quick to chastise others who do likewise. Maybe they feel its easier to have someone banned if they are less inspirational to the other artists.

With that aside, I'd love to see Carlo given his own section like Sparth, Android and Bengal. I'm sure I would visit it quite often.

Lets move this discussion elsewhere.

[JoshuaTheJames]

I would like to quote one of my good friends on the subject...

"Yeah, it's funny how they let this guy slip, but if it were Feng's work he was ripping, he'd be crucified by now..."

There is no way you can argue that.


Flint- There was no arrogance in my words, just frustration. Btw thanks for the Critique of my work. I say that with all sincerity and I will be working on what you commented even harder. Though I must admitt hearing something like that from you is just funny.

-Joshua


I removed the "grave" joke from my previous post. It came off too harsh. And edited the whole thing so it is now the way it should have been.

[el coro]

okay okay...pretty hard to argue after sammys post. i too was frustrated by the firing squad mentality that manifests itself around here sometimes. as far as ripping goes, i think we all do it to some degree. theres nothing wrong with that, as long as you put an original spin on it, and leave your hand/design descisions in it. as carlo has clearly done here. i guess its funny with machinery, as pieces are so rigidly laid out, and much easier to spot than a borrowed gesture or color scheme. oh well...i still think its a great piece all things considered.-c36

[Madman!]

This is to the comment about "Yeah, it's funny how they let this guy slip, but if it were Feng's work he was ripping, he'd be crucified by now..." I think this case is totally different than those. If I seem to remember those people just put their name on his art and didn't change anything. If you just isolated the girl in the picture it would be all original and definitely something of a profession level. The arm is changed somewhat so what's that like almost 90% of the drawing is original. I don't think this even comes close to when people have ripped Feng. Plus he has posted several other drawings which arent ripped, so I think we should let this slide and just next time just post it with the reference that's all.

I wanted to post again because I was over looked last time. Are you planning on making the book Carlo? or a website?

[softdrawer]

this thread is still going

Originally posted by softdrawer
foolishness

sadly

[behemot5]

:chug:

[daspetey]

carlo, this piece is amazing! the subdued colors, the meticulous detail of the mechanical arms..

ug.. i started posting this before i read the huge debate that followed the mechanical arms. i hope i'm not reopening any wounds by saying that your treatment of these arms is wonderful. they feel like part of her.. your perspective is flawless.. and speaking of copying, i'm going to copy this piece about sixty times in my sketchbook.

i can tell you learned from kevin, i am always astounded watching him effortlessly draw perfect figures. i get the same feeling looking at this piece.

-pete

[Eric UNSL]

I've never been to a public art forum where one of the administrators who is a professional artist tells members of the forum to "shut up and go draw" and to " fuck off" just for expressing their point of view. Very unprofessional el coro. Such language and insults directed at members of what I thought was a mature, professional site dedicated to concept art and art critique was uncalled for.

Anyway I am curious, It's ok to reference other concepts as long as the end result is unrecognizable from the original? If I were a concept artist looking for work in gaming and I referenced a mech design or some art that Manley or Feng or any of the other big names around here did and a potential employer saw and recognized where I got some of my designs from, How would that effect my chances of getting the job?

It seems like two schools of thought because another one of your founding members, James Zhang said this awhile back

"Pay Attention to detail and costume. Pose is nice, but remember that design is most important. Be original. Do not use existing designs from ANYWHERE. Chances are...employers will recognize it. On a design you are particularly proud of, show the design from start to finish. Sketches, finals, colors, close ups, references, details, equipment, etc... "

So who do I believe The guy from Lucasarts or the administrator who would rather we have no opinion and keep our mouths shut?

[Skank]

jesus H fucking christ...

first of all...he stated that this pic was originaly for a class DEMO, and that he liked it and finished it. i know if you post an image with borrowed elements you should post your referrences,but hes only human for christ sake. you think hes going to do it again? its not like hes using it for a portfolio..it was a fun piece of art he wanted to share, end of story...
granted,if it WAS anyone else, they may not get the benefit of the doubt like carlo did, but our communityis quick to teach those people real quick that they need to post their referrences if they have em...
besides, im inclined to believe that a track record is good for SOMEthing nowadays, carlo has posted MANY original pieces, and has been a valuable member of this community. its the hacks that come on here posting ripped stuff from the get go and claim it as theirs that we need to worry about, not someone having fun with a design...

peace out...

[Bots]

if only arguing and sour critiques really mattered in the scope of everyone's personal lives... waaaay too much free time on your hands guys. I think it would be more productive to use your free time to work on art of your own instead of bothering other people about theirs (ref or not ref).

[Phuzion]

Daaamn. Mob eveal thy self. Since I know Carlo can hit heavyweight whenever he wants, I don't care if it's not 100% his. Anyway...
I'm diggin' all your work man. Just waitin' for more. And I love the sexy ladies. Especially ones that look like they could kick ass! Props to you man. Peace

[JoshuaTheJames]

Originally posted by Eric UNSL


"Pay Attention to detail and costume. Pose is nice, but remember that design is most important. Be original. Do not use existing designs from ANYWHERE. Chances are...employers will recognize it. On a design you are particularly proud of, show the design from start to finish. Sketches, finals, colors, close ups, references, details, equipment, etc... "



Awe that was Jamyz wasn't it?

Beautifully put. Especially this...
" Do not use existing designs from ANYWHERE."

-Joshua

[McNallyism]

If you want to continiue discussing the use of reference in art, do it in this thread in the lounge...





Reference discussion (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19020)






-Sean

[PeSTeN]

God I can´t see the pictures! :realmad: