Desperately looking for a clue ;)

[Araia]

First, my apologies if this is not the proper place for my question.

For some time I've been trying to find out some info on this. It's just the copy of a picture in a friend's living-room. My friend says it's Spanish and has to do with the routes to the former colonies in America, but I really think it may be English because of the coat of arms, the clothes and the scene, which somehow reminds me Hogarth and other painters of that time. Perhaps it is a galleon, but I don't even know if it has to do with trading and commerce, shipwrighting or overseas routes

Can anyone suggest an artist or a title? Any help is appreciated, and sources are helpful as well.

A couple of pictures:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2zh40fn.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/2s10tq0.jpg

Greetings from Spain,

Araia

[Krato]

look like hogarth paintings.. but im not really sure. just say its hogarth or better yet look for a signature somewhere on the painting.

[Straight Edge Ryan]

I'll work on finding out but I'd say your best best is just to look for more clues in the painting. The ship on the table looks like a spanish gelleon, but english ships look very similar and since it doesn't have any sails and I'm not an expert on ancient ships, I can't tell you for sure. The coat of arms is also a good place to start. The painting on the wall would also be good, if you could identify who it's of (assuming its royalty) you could approximate the year it was made. The architecture on the window at the far right can be a clue as well. Maybe even the types of clothes they're wearing or the fact that its sepia toned could be a clue. Like I said I'll work on it though

[Araia]

Thanks so much you both for your answers ;)

Krato, that's what I thought, so I searched his paintings but unfortunately I couldn't find it, so perhaps it was made by someone afterwards (now I'm looking among his pupils). I wish there was a signature or date, it would make things easier, but there are no trace of them :(

Straight Edge Ryan, at the beginning I didn't know what kind of ship was that, but know I'm almost sure it is a galleon, and you are right... both Spanish and English are very much alike.

As far as the coat of arms, I've tried all belonging to U.K. and the Commonwealth as well and no results so far. Now I'm looking something different, with the nobility and guilds. I know nothing about heraldry, but I think they are a lion and a chained dog, so I rather consider it may have to do with nobility.

The painting on the wall I thought it was a portrait of... ¿Drake?, but I haven't found it either. For the clothes that man is wearing I guess it could be made in the late XVII C., whereas the characters in the painting look to me like in the XVIII C., under the reign of one of the Hannover kings. The gothic archs of the window I believe could be either Spanish or English, so I couldn't go any further on that hint.

Well, as you see I know nothing at all, and even though there's nothing I can take for sure, I must admit I'm having a great time in this quest and I'm learning lots of things. As I told you this all began just for curiosity, because it isn't really important, it is not the original piece of work but a simple copy on a wall in a humble living-room, but it's interesting... and it's beautiful.

I really appreciate your help and your time spent. Thank you again.

[Slash]

I'm pretty sure that's no galleon. Consider where the waterline would be on that thing. One cannon deck, three masts.. from what i can tell you're looking at a full rigged frigate. //Edit: The ship looks like it could be a sixth rate ship of the royal navy, since it looks to have about 24 cannons.
The coat of arms over the fireplace looks like it has a horse and a unicorn on it, bearing a striking resemblance to the british royal coat of arms.

Hope this helps.

[OmenSpirits]

well, the baton sinister is English/British from what I could find.

[Araia]

well, the baton sinister is English/British from what I could find.

Thank you, now I'm sure it's not Spanish ;)


I'm pretty sure that's no galleon. Consider where the waterline would be on that thing. One cannon deck, three masts.. from what i can tell you're looking at a full rigged frigate. //Edit: The ship looks like it could be a sixth rate ship of the royal navy, since it looks to have about 24 cannons.
The coat of arms over the fireplace looks like it has a horse and a unicorn on it, bearing a striking resemblance to the british royal coat of arms.

Hope this helps.

You're right, I've been checking and it could be a sixth rate ship. But the coat of arms I think it is a lion and a dog with a chain around. Thank yo very much for the clue ;)

[karma militia]

As far as the coat of arms, I've tried all belonging to U.K. and the Commonwealth as well and no results so far.

You sure? It's hard to tell from that photo, but it looks alot like the UK's coat of arms...

This is the closest one I've found, it's on the governors palace, in Williamsburg, Virginia of all places.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/UK_Coat_of_Arms_Governor%27s_Palace.jpg/800px-UK_Coat_of_Arms_Governor%27s_Palace.jpg

A slight variation of the House of windsor.
http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o463/sybercat73/ATS/capture_24102008_045143.jpg


This game is fun :)

[karma militia]

I think i found the model ship... Or one pretty damn similar.
http://shipmodeling.ru/imgup/img_hq38n8341464653.jpg
A 48-gun (fourth rank) ship of the British Admiralty, from about about 1695.
(more info) (http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://shipmodeling.ru/structure/structure_collection_krigschtein_01&ei=jgR8S7WCAo_m7AOT3I3BBA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D0%25A4%25D0%25BE%25D1%2582%25D0%2 5BE%2B9.%2B%25D0%259C%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B4%25D0%25B 5%25D0%25BB%25D1%258C%2B70-%25D0%25BF%25D1%2583%25D1%2588%25D0%25B5%25D1%2587 %25D0%25BD%25D0%25BE%25D0%25B3%25D0%25BE%2B%25D0%2 5BA%25D0%25BE%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B1%25D0%2 5BB%25D1%258F%2B%25D1%2582%25D1%2580%25D0%25B5%25D 1%2582%25D1%258C%25D0%25B5%25D0%25B3%25D0%25BE%2B% 25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D0%25BD%25D0%25B3%25D0%25B0, %2B%25D0%25BF%25D1%2580%25D0%25B8%25D0%25BC%25D0%2 5B5%25D1%2580%25D0%25BD%25D0%25BE%2B1700%2B%25D0%2 5B3.(%25D0%25A4%25D0%25BE%25D1%2582%25D0%25BE:%2BK riegstein%2BCollection)%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1C1CHNU_ enAU332AU332)

[dcorc]

The scene looks very british.

The painting is much later than Hogarth, and the painting is "historical" in theme.

I'd suggest its either late 19thC (in which case its probably british), or, more likely, early 20thC - think american book/magazine illustrators.

My money would be on someone like Howard Pyle, Dean Cornwall, NC Wyeth... stories of 18thC naval adventure, pirates, and so on, were a big thing in the early 20thC.

(I'll bet Elwell can identify it, or give some good suggestions).


Dave

[karma militia]

The scene looks very british.

The painting is much later than Hogarth, and the painting is "historical" in theme.

I'd suggest its either late 19thC (in which case its probably british), or, more likely, early 20thC - think american book/magazine illustrators.

My money would be on someone like Howard Pyle, Dean Cornwall, NC Wyeth... stories of 18thC naval adventure, pirates, and so on, were a big thing in the early 20thC.

(I'll bet Elwell can identify it, or give some good suggestions).


Dave

I agree, It's probably a retrospective imagining of some important event.

It's possible that ship is "HMS Sussex". It sunk in 1694, with about 10tonnes of gold onboard. It was a British navy ship, last moored in Spain, and it was redesigned for better stability after the accident.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/HMS_Sussex_(80)_model_starboard_broadside.jpg
After a short stopover in Cadiz, the fleet entered the Mediterranean. On 27 February a violent storm hit the flotilla near the Strait of Gibraltar and in the early morning of the third day, HMS Sussex sank. All but two "Turks" of the 500 crew onboard drowned, including Admiral Wheler, whose body, legend has it, was found on the eastern shore of the rock of Gibraltar in his night-shirt.
Due to the extent of the fatalities, it was not possible to establish the exact cause of the disaster, but it has been noted that 'the disaster seemed to confirm suspicions already voiced about the inherent instability of 80-gun ships with only two decks, such as the Sussex, and a third deck would be added for new ships of this armament.'[5]
Besides HMS Sussex, 12 other ships of the fleet sank. There were approximately 1,200 casualties in total, in what remains one of the worst disasters in the history of the Royal Navy. (wiki) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Sussex_(1693))

[Araia]

Karma, I was not sure at all; If they told me it was a cow wearing a necklace I 'd have the same doubts :D . My fault!, it IS a unicorn. I must admit I have been wrong since I started, I have been looking for the exact coat of arms, ship, room and characters in the picture without thinking that it all could be figurative or just a recreation as dcorc wisely points out (Thanks dcorc, I'm going to search those artists ;) )

Look at these two, the first is also a UK's coat of arms and the other is Scottish and they're quite different,and today I've some more versions:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/making_history/media/blisland_300x289.jpg

http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/9/90/Scottish_royal_coat_of_arms.png


karma, you've done a great work! I'm now trying with the fifth rate, but they are all very similar. Tomorrow I'll go on with yours. Thank you very much. ;)