Struggling with art...

[ohGr]

First of all, hello, I'm new here and I'm really excited to get to know the board. Found you all through Google.

Now the reason I'm posting this is because I'm really a wreck anymore when it comes to drawing. I'm 18 and about to enter The Art Institute of Pittsburgh under the program of Game Art & Design. I've always enjoyed drawing and games but when I drew, I was usually looking at something or drawing from a picture. I know it's a fact that I can't draw free hand and it's a pill that seems too difficult to swallow.

I really don't know how to express how overwhelmed and apprehensive I am when I sit down to draw. Nine times out of ten I will sit there for ten minutes, staring at the paper, maybe make a line that I erase only to leave and retreat back to my computer from failure. I suppose one thing to mention is that I'm an extreme perfectionist that can't help but compare his art to that of who he admires. (Example attached.)
http://www.veracitypictures.com/images/29.jpg

Now that image attached above is conceptual art for a new and upcoming title. I really desire to draw like that but fail miserably. I realize how typical I may sound but that is my goal and I will hate everything I draw until my drawings reach that level of detail and perfection. Currently I've been struggling with the human figure. It's extremely difficult to say the least. I have a book on it, Burne Hogarth's Dynamic Figure Drawing which, in my opinion, is a book that says 'look what I can do and you can't'. What I'm trying to say is I'm struggling with this and I don't know how to get any better.

As I mentioned before, I draw rather well when I'm looking at something because I've learnt how to see like an artist but I fail miserably when it must come straight from my mind. It's very unfortunate since I have so many fantastic ideas that I can never put down on paper except through monosyllabic words. I've read somewhere that there's as much to learn about drawing as there is about any other subject and I definitely believe that.

What do I do? I'll be the first to tell you that I thoroughly enjoy game development such as the story, art and such but the conceptual art is, for the lack of a better term, busting my frickin' balls. I've been told my ideas are really original and innovative and I wish I had concept art to back that up but I don't. It'd be an understatement to say that this has been stressful. Ever since I visited the art institute in October of 2003, I've been working on improving my drawing and I feel like I haven't gone anywhere with it.

What're your thoughts? My portfolio is due when I graduate in June and I'm not sure what to do. I planned to have ten drawings, some of imaginative stuff, some of figure drawings and some other stuff. I'm really stressing out here so any help is really appreciated.

Thanks guys.

[PeggyChung]

hey ohGr, im not professional and im a new learner myself but i ll say what i think. for now, i am studying hwo to draw figures, i read from bridgeman and loomis' book :
http://www.fineart.sk/index.php?cat=1
the reason why i study this is because i too have ideas i want down on paper but cant because of my lack of artistic knowledge. its kind of like learning the standard and then making it your own. we all have horrible drawings, but its studying the basics which "lessens" the bad drawings.
the art of the person you put up, use that as a inspiration for you to work harder, thinking "i want to be better than him!" art is a lot about patience, you cannot expect to be amazing the next day, it takes many long hours of practice -.-'' for example, heres mindcandyman's stuff, im always so amazed how much he has progressed within a year and a few months http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=870
check out his 1st and last page :D and then see all the progress inbetween.

this is all i can think of for now, i hope the links are inspirational or helpful to you, goodluck!

[unknown]

hi

Man I FEEL THE SAME AS YOU I AM YOU!!!. i can see your boat :(.

Well only advice is that practice like hell. Thats bs man people say same to me...... i spent 5hours today sketching etc and it all comes out crap. Ideas where there but production sucked.!!

The aim should be to see where your strenghts lie? what are yo ureally good at and what do you enjoy? what do you want to improve.?

I personally believe it natural talent. You will see alot of artist dont go through the shit we go through. And you have to except that its life. I say that cause when i was in college i did life drawings. I was one of the top boys at it. but i tried my ass off to be there. One girl was just a natural. She would do everything with ease and perfection and LESS time. The grading was the same for both of us but i could alway see that i lacked something.

Its even harder for me now as i am coming back to art after 4years. The frustration i have in me is so bad i could kill someone.! :bash: sometimes i get so mad that i would sink into playing online games and waste time.

Try this. Give you self a goal of improvement. At what point in your life do you want to be that good? few months, 1 week?
etc. I have given my self a time limit.. after that forget it. I will still stick to what i do but with less enthusiasm.

sorry for the sad story. Try hard and hang in there. dont give up.! Use refrenceses, look at other concpetual artists. keep looking at good work everyday. even staring it at is good.
maybe something will come up dont worry. you are only 18!

:D

[Sama3d]

I went though Ai and really enjoyed the program. You just have to relax and try to absorb as much as you can. You'll do fine if believe you will.

There are classes like problem solving that explore your creativity and help to make you even more creative.

People will argue that an education is not needed or that gen eds arent required in an Art college. Heres a word of advice... No matter what the class is it will help you out in life and in your career. Dont fall in the cycle of negativity. Believe it or not but psychology, sociology, even statistics has made me a better artist and person.

Sam3d

[ohGr]

Hey, thanks for the replies.

Practice seems to be the consensus but how can I practice if I have no interest in producing garbage? I mean really, drawing after drawing, like you said Unknown, turn out like shit and it doesn't seem like I'm improving in the least. Part of me is thinking that in order to draw like that that I have to be extremely patient and detailed. Wrong. When I do that things become all distorted.

I'm a firm believer in everyone being created equally so I think if this son of a bitch can do it, I sure as hell can. Maybe not as easily but I know I can. Why not? What boundaries are there to overcome that he hasn't and why couldn't I?

Those're my thoughts.

[ohGr]

Originally posted by Sama3d
I went though Ai and really enjoyed the program. You just have to relax and try to absorb as much as you can. You'll do fine if believe you will.

There are classes like problem solving that explore your creativity and help to make you even more creative.

People will argue that an education is not needed or that gen eds arent required in an Art college. Heres a word of advice... No matter what the class is it will help you out in life and in your career. Dont fall in the cycle of negativity. Believe it or not but psychology, sociology, even statistics has made me a better artist and person.

Sam3d

Did you go for the Game Art & Design program? Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem taking classes that aren't art related because I do thoroughly enjoy to learn. I'm just worried about my drawing ability. I need to make some progress but I feel chained down for some reason.

[Sama3d]

Ai in florida doesnt have a game program. Maybe they do now im not really sure. I graduated with a BS degree in Mmedia Arts an Animation. Dont worry about drawing you will take about 8 drawing classes maybe more if you choose to.

[o0Dave0o]

Hey you are definately not alone there ohGr! When i read ur post if sounded exactly like a description of myself. I, like you just find it hard to just sit down and try because everything i do comes out (in my opinion) crappy and i usually retreat to my computer to do some gaming or lookin at art that i wish i could do...
People will say practise practise practise, and i think i believe it, but they never seem to mention the idea of motivation motivation motivation. i can draw decently from a picture but when it comes to putting my enormous amount of ideas on paper they dont turn out.
After looking at that progress of mindcandyman's work im really inspired, and i think its time i decided to do something about my art. I am going to try and find time to do sketching at least once a day...even if the only time i can find is late at night I'm going to do it... I dont know...maybe i should start a thread like his...

I understand your chained down feeling because that's what i am feeling, i am just turning 18 and i too am working on a portfolio to get into university...the deadline is May 1st. but after seeing mindcandyman's progess, i thought...i can do this! just set my mind to it and just do it!
David



P.S. maybe you and me want to start a thread and work on getting through it together? lets say maybe just start with like pose drawing (stick figure type scribbles) and then just work on different skills... just an idea....:)

[Sama3d]

Surround yourself with talented people, Absorb all you can in class and u'll be fine.

Sama

[ohGr]

Well I have to say I'm sort of amazed that there are this many struggling fellow artists. I really thought I was in this boat alone.

I've started a little thing with my buddy that we'll be doing since me and him are both procrastinating heavily on drawing. I have to say it's working, at least in my opinion. I really think I've found my problem which was lack of detail. So two nights ago I began drawing a heavily detailed cyborg and it's turning out way more impressive than I thought. Personally I don't feel I've improved or anything because this isn't figure drawing and that's what I've been pushing myself to do lately.

Goddamnit. I'm so hard on myself for this that I'm getting sick of it. Lately I've had a huge boost of motivation but I don't apply it to drawing. I'm really doubting now my ability as an artist.

Stupid thing happened to me today that really got me jealous. My friend was browsing our hosting and he came across the pictures I uploaded that look like the one I posted here and he, someone who would rarely, if ever, compliment me, started a conversation and mentioned them. He was, like me when I first saw those drawings, awestruck. He asked me if I drew them and it really hurt to say I didn't. This is how far it's gone but it seems I don't want to fix the situation without doing all the painstaking work. I know I could just as all of you draw like that above but we all need that motivation to succeed. I'm a firm believer that drawing is 90% mind and 10% skill. Just as o0Dave0o said, motivation, motivation, motivation.

Random question: does anyone here do gesture sketches? My art teacher recommended me to do them but I don't think they're my style (quick and sloppy). I see what they're trying to illustrate but if you can't turn it into a piece of presentable artwork, what's the point?

[Myriadian]

Hey. You're right--a lot of people feel the same, or at least similar. But they key element is to draw, and to keep drawing. I started this summer, the first since fourth grade, and I was horrible. However, I kept at it and, a couple months later, I had shown vast improvements.

One thing you should keep in mind, especially if you want to go into game art: you can draw from references, but if you want it to be spicy and original, you need to work with your mind. You should try just thinking of SOMETHING and trying as hard as you can to get it right.

Good luck, and I hope you can reach land, without touching water.

[Ater]

I was about to post something like this.



I want to know,what are the best ways to improve?


If you think I might know one thing,tell me it anyways just incase....hehehe


I think for me though I practiced to hard to the point I lost my way.And becuase of that I need help

[ohGr]

AH!! I'm getting so frustrated I just can't take it! I look at this guy's art and it's just genius, pure and utter genius. How do I even stand a chance against someone like this in the job market?!

[PeggyChung]

aye have some dignity man! he was once like us! he probably thought the same, go practice!

[ohGr]

Originally posted by LadyLioness
aye have some dignity man! he was once like us! he probably thought the same, go practice!

No, you're wrong about that. People who can draw this well are gifted and experience no difficulty in it. They take it for granted and don't know the difficulties. What this reminds me of is how nice guys finish last. Why? Because nice guys know failure well. I bet this guy is an asshole who drew this stuff. Modest and quiet, he'd let me insult him and only return a silence and gaze that would shatter my desire to continue making accusations on his persona and talent.

Would it be asking too much to be able to draw well and put my ideas down on paper in the form of illustrations than through vapid words? This is all I want in my life. I need a new creative outlet.

[PeggyChung]

hmm alright, so what are you planning to do now with art OhGr? or what are you currently doing?

[ohGr]

Originally posted by LadyLioness
hmm alright, so what are you planning to do now with art OhGr? or what are you currently doing?

I don't know. I really like writing but it's a difficult way to live. There's no place I could go to school right now for just creative writing so if I choose that route then I'm just relying on my own talent to live on which isn't a secure life. But how does drawing differ? I really don't have any talent in drawing. I'm considering not going into Game Art & Design but I'm fearing that I will totally regret it later on. I'm in such a bind right now.

My other major I'm considering is Multimedia & Web Design. I like both but I know the most about Game Design or at least have the most ideas for it. I'm really confused and don't want to make the wrong choice. What's your take? I mean, it's 4:34 AM right now and I'm up 'cause I'm worrying so much. I was trying to draw two hours ago but failed miserably.

This is beginning to really depress me.

[Main Loop]

Originally posted by ohGr


No, you're wrong about that. People who can draw this well are gifted and experience no difficulty in it. They take it for granted and don't know the difficulties. What this reminds me of is how nice guys finish last. Why? Because nice guys know failure well. I bet this guy is an asshole who drew this stuff. Modest and quiet, he'd let me insult him and only return a silence and gaze that would shatter my desire to continue making accusations on his persona and talent.

Would it be asking too much to be able to draw well and put my ideas down on paper in the form of illustrations than through vapid words? This is all I want in my life. I need a new creative outlet.

actually i think you're the one thats wrong about that..how can you assume the personality of someone through one concept drawing? You also dont know how much preliminary work went into the drawing as well, nor do you know how much experience in drawing he has... Basically you're stressing yourself out needlessly.. relax and take your time with it.. start with the basics and work your way up.. you can never know the basics too well

[Skank]

main loop is right man, you just need to relax.
it does no good for you hold yourself up to somone elses work, someone who has put alot of time and effort into BECOMING that good. people arent just magicly good artists. some poeople have natural talent yes, BUT! it takes ALOT of work and dedication to become good at it...it doesnt just happen.
we all get frustrated over not being as good as so and so, but its should inspire you! dont despare, use that inspiration to learn and grow from it. beating yourself up isnt going to hel;p you.

check this thread out, i think it will help you get a new perspective on things.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=870

good luck man!

[ohGr]

Originally posted by Main Loop


actually i think you're the one thats wrong about that..how can you assume the personality of someone through one concept drawing? You also dont know how much preliminary work went into the drawing as well, nor do you know how much experience in drawing he has... Basically you're stressing yourself out needlessly.. relax and take your time with it.. start with the basics and work your way up.. you can never know the basics too well

I can assume that about someone because I know the type. Anyone that good has this 'I'm not that good' attitude just to piss people off. I've met several people like this and it's so annoying.

I'm really contemplating whether or not I should even bother wasting anymore time drawing. I really think I'm too impatient to work on anything for that long amount of time.

[Myriadian]

Another annoying tendancy is someone who keeps bashing themself. Keep telling yourself that your work is good, and it's getting better. You'll have a harder time focusing on a specific drawing style, like your example above, than making your OWN style. In fact, people will appreciate you and your art more if it comes from you, and not a facade which you pulled over your face because you liked it more.

You can say: hey, I like that person--he's an inspiration; but you shouldn't say: hey, I like that person and want to be exactly like that person.

Seriously, I consider myself a person in growth. I know, when I look at a picture that is really good, that I can do it--in time and with experience. I'm no where near a lot of great artists here in CA, yet I have--and you do, too!--a lot of time to become what you have inside of yourself. Don't put a stopper in your growing talent when it's not all let out of the jar. And don't you tell yourself that it is all out of a jar. Keep doing, keep trying--you will succeed if you have your target set on achieving what you want.

[Myriadian]

I'm really contemplating whether or not I should even bother wasting anymore time drawing. I really think I'm too impatient to work on anything for that long amount of time.

I'm surprised you can just drop something so quickly when you seemed to passionately involved about it. Art takes time, and patience is required--that doesn't mean it's not for you. It's something that, if you lack, you can attain through pratice. Yes, you can practice being patient. :)

[Jin]

Originally posted by ohGr


I can assume that about someone because I know the type. Anyone that good has this 'I'm not that good' attitude just to piss people off. I've met several people like this and it's so annoying.

I'm really contemplating whether or not I should even bother wasting anymore time drawing. I really think I'm too impatient to work on anything for that long amount of time.

ohGr,

If you're "... too impatient to work on anything for that long amount of time.", you're gonna need to do some real growing.

If you continue to have the attitude you're displaying here, you're only going to shoot yourself in the foot, so to speak. In other words, you're crippling yourself.. completely unnecessarily. It's a waste of your time and of what's been given to you to use. All of us have gifts. We just need to find them, then work to develop them.

You don't know now, and will never know, what your limits are. Life is like that. Unless you put up a false wall and stop yourself, with either a negative attitude about working hard, a negative attitude about yourself and your capabilities, or a negative attitude about other people who happen to have worked hard enough to draw and paint well... you're setting yourself up for misery.

This applies not only to art. It applies to everything in life, your own work, play, friends, family.. and how you'll sleep at night.. feeling happy or all crunched up with ideas of failure, envy, and resentment.

Anything worthwhile learning, and doing, takes time. No one has the talent and skill when they're born to do great art, or to do anything great for that matter, except maybe to be an adorable baby.

You can't know that someone says.. "I'm not that good." just to "piss people off". That's a grand assumption on your part, and a mean-spirited one at that. Assumptions are mostly a figment of the imagination and often have nothing to do with reality.

When I was young, anywhere from 16 to 19, I was convinced I had nothing to offer, had no self confidence at all. I thought that everyone knew more than I did and could do things better than I could.

By the time I was 23, I was the mother of two children, running a household pretty darned well, designing and sewing most of my clothing and my daughter's clothing.

By the time I was 34, I was back in school making a 4.0 grade average in both art and writing classes.

By the time I was 35 after 16 years of marriage and raising children, I was working as an illustrator, typesetter, paste up artist, and PMT camera operator.

By the time I was 39, I was running my own freelance business doing technical illustration, graphic art, and graphic design.

By the time I was 50, I was working as a technical illustrator/technical writer for a large semiconductor equipment manufacturer (and making a very decent living to boot).

By the time I was 63, I was retired and back in school for a full year catching up on graphics programs... and having loads of fun!

I'm now 67 and for the past 9 years have been teaching Painter all over the Painter community for free (sometimes here too). In August 2000, I opened my own Painter focused message board, TutorAlley Forums, where I teach formal Painter classes in private forums and share Painter 5/5.5, 6, 7, and Painter 8 knowledge in our open forums. Since 1999, I've also had another Painter focused site, PixelAlley, where I provide free tutorials, resources, and other Painter information..

I'm convinced that life holds even more adventures for me and that I don't know yet what they'll be.

It's been a wild and fun ride so far and I am not going to close any doors in my mind.

You haven't begun to learn what adventures life holds for you, so take a deep breath, calm down, and work on your thought processes. When you hear yourself saying to yourself.. anything negative.. turn the volume down on that negative voice and start thinking something positive.

If you want positive ideas, come here and ask for them. As you can see by reading this thread, you'll have lots of friends to help.

In other words, stop being a pain in the butt and cheer up! :D

As they say....

"Today is the first day of the rest of my life."


With sincerest good wishes,

[Angela]

Hey ohGr,
I agree with what Jin said.. very wise advice.. just think of drawing as the first time you wrote or something... you didnt learn how to write in ONE day.. it takes time.. so just take your time to learn how to draw and probably you'll be where you want soon.. Look what this guy did in 2 short years of practice.. im sure this will inspire you..! good luck my friend!
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5918&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

:chug:

[ohGr]

Originally posted by Angela
Hey ohGr,
I agree with what Jin said.. very wise advice.. just think of drawing as the first time you wrote or something... you didnt learn how to write in ONE day.. it takes time.. so just take your time to learn how to draw and probably you'll be where you want soon.. Look what this guy did in 2 short years of practice.. im sure this will inspire you..! good luck my friend!
http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5918&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

:chug:

Very impressive art. A lot of great, original ideas. I especially like the techinques he talked of with the steps and different pencils and such.

That's a rather noble art career Jin was speaking of and very impressive as well. But I lack determination and motivation.

I really have to tell you all what I'm like for you to understand me and my unbearable situation at hand. I'm 18, yes, and insanely depressed. I mean rock-bottom kill yourself depressed. A great deal of it has to do with art and my ability to perform well but the main part is my lack of meaning in life. Now this may sound on the teenage angst side but it's exactly how I feel. I lack motivation and determination because I believe I've lost faith in everything: life, God, humanity and most of all, myself. Pondering these thoughts only brought me further to the brink of losing it completely and taking my own life. I feel no compassion or desire to live, I see no point to pleasure or pain and I see nothing great in life. This is why I no longer try.

One thing that I can't seem to understand is pleasure. Pleasure is all we seek, all we crave; it is the formula that pushes the universe. For some reason, I wish to break from this. Call it masochism or self-destruction, it's all still leading back to some sort of pleasure. I can't bear this. It's brought me to the most psychotic of thoughts including homicide to destroy what others value and bring them to recognize this void. I don't know how to deal with this sort of thing because it's this enigmatic bind that is irreversable in every way and a paradox completely in trying to solve. If you follow what I mean, then you can maybe understand the misery I'm going through.

So this is much more than a lack of motivation and determination. It's a matter of meaning and quite plainly, I see no point to it all. This is really how I am and tonight I've even thought of doing harm to myself but I long to hope I'll find something that may interest me once again in life.

[o0Dave0o]

Hey, i want you to remember something...


You are not alone in this! you are most definatly alone in this!

Lately I have been experiencing these same feelings, these same thoughts of complete and utter pointlessness of everything. How can you motivate yourself when you can't even see a point to the end product? I just want you to know that i understand what you're going through. Those late nights you just lay in bed not being able to sleep because you can't stop stewing over what life is all about. Not caring about anything...they say this misery is like a phase...some teenage thing that goes away, i just dont see how.

My best advice, is push, just push through, whenever I hit a really low day i just keep telling myself to keep pushing...persevere, cause there's gotta be something good in this life and im bound and determined to find it....

just remember you're not alone...and that there are those who love you. And if you're anything like I am right now, as much as i want to end it i just can't bear doing it because i'd end up hurting those that love me.


(oh and sorry bout taking this thread away from drawing abit but i felt it had to be said)

[ohGr]

I appreciate that, Dave. Somehow I just managed to forget everything: the comparision, the futility and the stress and just drew probably my best free hand figure drawing. Weird as hell but I was looking at http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5918&perpage=30&pagenumber=1 and it did inspire me. Give me your opinion.

http://www.veracitypictures.com/images/Lady%20of%20Dreams.jpg

[Myriadian]

You've got good shading there, and it highlights the body nicely. It's a good, organic pose. The thing you'll need to work on is the proportions. One thing I notice, is that you seem to make some parts of her a little too curvy. I don't know if that's the right term, but you may want to accentuate points with a sharper corner.

You've got the lengths down correctly, but you might need to work a bit on the sides.

But please, don't take this post as something mean. It's something to help you. People need compliments, as well as CCs. You've got a future, and CA is here to help.

[ohGr]

Originally posted by Myriadian
You've got good shading there, and it highlights the body nicely. It's a good, organic pose. The thing you'll need to work on is the proportions. One thing I notice, is that you seem to make some parts of her a little too curvy. I don't know if that's the right term, but you may want to accentuate points with a sharper corner.

You've got the lengths down correctly, but you might need to work a bit on the sides.

But please, don't take this post as something mean. It's something to help you. People need compliments, as well as CCs. You've got a future, and CA is here to help.

Yeah, I see what you're saying about it being curvy but I always found it best to be curvy because rarely will you ever see a straight line on the body.

[silentbrain]

Hi, just wandering around post-dsg and ran across this.

Can't say I don't share the same views. I think it is called nihilism. My only recommendation is to try to overcome it as soon as possible, although having had not much luck in this myself, I can't really offer any advice. But try to look at it this way: we seek pleasure because we are individuals. Words are, at best, a primitive means to create true empathy, so assume there is little empathy and every person is looking out for #1. However, without individualism, on one point we may become very lonely indeed, and on another we would have no hope of growing since all our ideas would be inbred. (weak argument, I guess. conveying my thoughts by word has always been my weak spot)

(At least the demographic is well represented in the annals of Japanese RPG villiandom, if I may bring in a lighter note)

If you drew that figure out of your head, I think it looks pretty damn good. When I was 18...well...let's not bring that up. If you drew it from life, also good, since you aren't blobbing up your darks and lights. (which is something I did plenty when I was 18)

Speaking of which, I know the road looks long and impossible from where you are, but just take it a little at a time. From your posts I assume that you are pretty intelligent, so use that brain and find out what your weaknesses are and work on them.

On detail, I have a few ideas coming from looking at other people's works, and they are only opinions so feel free to disregard them.
All those bolts and wedges and exhaust vents are there to provide texture. I looked at the example you provided at the beginning of this thread, I see a lot of simple big shapes, spheres, cylinders, boxes, wedged together and some detail thrown on top. Frankly some of it doesn't make sense to me, but it looks nice. I think your teachers will tell you the same, mine sure did.

You've said you are too impatient and that detail must come first, and I was the same also. Still am in a way, and I'm 4 years older! I believe that it will work itself out with age, however. It's a matter of getting experience, which opens new venues of thought and broadens the art mind. Which means you have to keep drawing every day, even if you don't feel like it, because it is a pre-requisite. (or as one of my old teachers used to say, even the old masters drew their coffee cup in the morning)

If, at the end, you really feel like art isn't for you, you can come here and kick my teeth in and then try something else. Look at what Jin has done for example.

I hope this has not been offending, and that it has been legible. Too tired to really make sure right now. Apologies in advance...

[ohGr]

Made a lot of sense, silentbrain. I do consider myself a nihilist although and it's depressing as hell. And 'built' the way we are, no one can function depressed. When thought about, we are a trite, useless race if we're not getting pleasure in some shape or form. I wish I could rise above that but I can't. I wish I could operate not happy or sad but simply neutral to live out the rest of my life. I don't know why, just the way I desire to live.

I did draw that from my head and as I said before, that's a rarity. I do need to draw a lot more and I think I'll progress fast but I just need to keep the motivation up but being a nihilist and human, that's like making a car accelerate with no gas.

I have been realizing that art is my only way to live. Computers, mainly IT, lack feeling and creativity. I mention this because it was my other resort but now that I've discovered a lot more considerate people in this field, it's likely I'll stick to it. Art has the sort of people that are like me: sensitive and brooding. I didn't receive any of that in computers.

But that's what I have to say. I do have to mention I'll begin to draw as much as possible as to improve. I'll keep you guys posted.

[Ray of the Dead]

Man this is what people like us need. Its like a support group for the Artisticly Moderate in Limbo if you will. I could swear you guys crawled into my brain and poured out my deepest feelings about this subject, the only subject i'm truely passionate about. Its hard to keep going sometimes man. But we must persevere, this is what separates us from everyone else, your ability to be unique and your god given right to do what not many other people can do, express it visually. As for your 'poisonous' thoughts of quitting and trying to muster the will to draw even though you feel the results will be horrible, look to the words of the wise if you cant find them yourself. Heres a few that keep me going:

judging by your alias i'm assuming your familiar with a band called hatebreed, well these are some of the strongest words i've ever heard, and with even more emotion with music behind them... "This is now, I can not change tomorrow, if cant change today, This is now, I control myself, I control my destiny."

As for the another quote that i'm giving you, this comes from someone who we are fortunate enough to see grow as an artist and actually have access to him through these forums. A man I give so much respect, just seeing his work and reading these words he wrote some 5 years ago, keeps me going. I'm talking about Andrew Jones (Android), his emotion for this beautiful ability and discipline that we have is almost unparalleled. I cant express enough how much men like him, people on these forums are a gift to people like us to talk to and critique our work so that we may improve and make the best of ourselves. I could go on and on but i'm sure if Andrews work speaks for itself. But this was a header for I guess what used to be his site, i dont even remember how i found it but I have these words tattooed to my heart.

"...My art is my love, my life, and my destiny. People often ask me if my talent is a gift. Talent is not a gift. Talent is something that is earned by discipline, hard work, and dedication. The only gift i posess is my desire to draw. A desire that has always been with me. It keeps me up at night, and then haunts me in my dreams. It is like a thirst that can never be quenched, a fire that never burns out. The work on these pages is my best attempts to satisfy my desire. Every line I make is a prayer, Every stroke is a celebration of life. What you see on these pages is the root of my existance, it is why i am here...." ~Andrew Jones

These words drive me every day of my life, they are the most inspiring words i've ever read from one of the most passionate men i've never had the pleasure of meeting.

Andrew if you read this, I thank you for writing those words, and i'm so glad they are still lingering somewhere on the net where i found them because I believe everyone that feels the way ohGr and I and everyone that visits this thread, should read something like this.

I think i've said enough for now, but i could talk about this subject for days. Trust me man, everyone doubts themselves at one point in our lives, but its perseverence that makes the weak stronger, and the strong even stronger. NEVER GIVE UP...

[gandalf]

those hatebreed lyrics didn't even make sense. :bash:

[pogonip]

That first image kicks ass who did it ?

[Ray of the Dead]

gandalf, whats not to understand about the lyrics. have you ever heard the song, even if its not your style give the song a listen or download the lyrics. They mean that you have to want to change and everything that you are capable comes from within.

[nikia]

ohGr, check out the Middle Class here. It's a group of artists that have joined together on Conceptart. We give each other support and in depth crits and help with our artwork. There are threads for anatomy, composition, values, etc. And lessons in various areas. We teach each other how to do art. The artists are all at various levels in their work. I myself have been an artist for 40 odd years off and on. I am just getting back into it seriously. You would be welcome to join if you are interested. Just click on the Middle Class link below my signature and it will take you there. Good luck.

btw: I do not know of any artist that is ever satisfied with the quality of their work. No matter how good their work seems to be to other people.

[ohGr]

My handle didn't come from hatebreed but instead the musician ohGr.

A little update for you guys:
I just went to sit down and draw now and, once again, failed miserably. I'm trying to do some concept art of a ruined city but being the perfectionist I am, I try and use a ruler on every damn line and it ends up looking boring. If I try without one, it's really sloppy. I gotta tell you, I just feel like I don't have what it takes to be an artist. I can't draw for shit, period. It's so damn frustrating to accept and I can't explain the envy that runs through me to see people draw things so naturally and easily. I don't think they realize how gifted they are.

At this point I don't care anymore. I'm sick of error and failure. I have nothing to fall back on for a career so I'm pretty much screwed. I'm so sick of failure because it's all I encounter. Shit, I preach this to you all as if you could grant me this. There's no reason to it. No reason to anything especially success and failure.

[ammon]

Along with all that practice, get crit as often as possible. the simple fact that you took so long to show something of your own proves that you are not seeking crit.

All that practice will become soooo much more valuable if you allow others to constantly observe your work and comment )for good and bad). stay open and be patient.

Remember, not many artists are satified with their skill. take the very nice work for example that you show in your first post ... he/she that did that will continue to improve also ... there is no 'end' to this journey.

This quote from Gary Gianni encourages me:

"The question is asked so often, 'How did you do that?'. If you can come up with a satisfactory answer, please write a book and put me down for 10 copies!"

[EarthClimber]

Hey oghr, when I read your first post you know what came into my mind...ME! Your compassionate interest in game and art design is just what I want to do too. I didn't take art class in high school, so I am really regretting it:( I feel like 4 years of my life could have been better if I would have taken art, oh well cant go back in the past can we. I would post some of my work, but I dont have a scanner at the moment,(could you tell me how to exactly post a picture here:) ) I enjoy drawing creatures for video games. In Austin, Texas I have not found any colleges that have game art and design classes though, and I probally dont have enough money to go to an out of state college:-( So, it sounds like my boat is sinking faster than yours. I am also 18, and going to graduate in May. I will probally end up taking art classes in North Texas University. Your sketch was looked nice, just keep drawing..and even if you dont like it..maybe you can post it up, I would love to see it. Lets keep this thread going
-Peace

[Calle_]

Well, i started drawing about 2 months ago, i've always wanted to be good but never really had the time to draw.

However, when i found this site, i started drawing every day, (just filled up a 80 page sketch book in a week, yipes) and i have REALLY improved in my drawings, as soon as i get a scanner you could get to watch my earlier drawings with the things i draw now, Its all abour practise and motivation. And it's not just a withborn talent, for some maybe but i bet they see things like shapes etc from another angle so they get it on paper really easy.

I think you just gotta practise, You can improve your pen skills by making something like dots and straight line between them, up and down like waves and make them look alike, stuff like that really improves your pen skill. A good example (i think) is playing games like starcraft and warcraft. In the beginning i had trouble hitting the units with my mouse, didnt have the speed to move them and stuff like that, But after a year of playing my mouse speed and accuracy has increased about 5 times, The more you play the more your style evolves and you make own strategies (i say this like your drawing style evolves ^^) to stay in the top, You watch replays to look up others strategies and you wonder how to make them better or convert them into your style of playing (yeah this is the inspiration by other peoples work).

I think this is the kind of thing that motivates me, i know i can get better if i just want, i got alot better in my games by playing alot and watching other people. I belive its the same with art.

And Ofcourse MindCandyMan is a big motivation, He has improved so much in a year or so, and i belive i can do the same for as long as i think drawings is fun!.

Thanks for me ^^
Calle

[EarthClimber]

Nice comparison between games and art, I agree with you that it takes practice for everything. Some people take longer to learn something than others, but in the end we can all succeed.

BTW, Blizzard is my favorite computer game company ^_^ZERG RUSH

[Bart - GPLEA]

Originally posted by ohGr
Practice seems to be the consensus but how can I practice if I have no interest in producing garbage? I mean really, drawing after drawing, like you said Unknown, turn out like shit and it doesn't seem like I'm improving in the least. Part of me is thinking that in order to draw like that that I have to be extremely patient and detailed. Wrong. When I do that things become all distorted.


You know, I think you are looking at the problem in the wrong way.

I believe (but hey, that's just my opinion) you should split things into a few different problems:

1. Why can't you get past the empty page-syndrome (which we al had or have at some period)

2. Why can't you produce anything good ?

3. Why are you forcing yourself to be perfect at the first try ?


I think it's very clear that you are making at least one very big mistake in your way of thinking. You are trying to start with the very last step of a whole production process. Nobody can create a perfectl and interestingly looking drawing from scratch.
While some people present their work as rough sketches, they are probably the result of endless hours of thinking/daydreaming and sketching. Most of us have a small idea in our minds and will write it down or make a 'napkin-quality' sketch of it, just to make sure we DON'T forget the idea during the rest of our day.
You use that as a starting point, do quick and rough sketches, more like doodling which MUST have absolutely no quality or detail, because the whole idea is to put your brain to work - not your hands.
If you allow yourself to do this, you will end up with a few papers filled with rough ideas that come from that one inital idea you had.
Lets say you think about drawing a robot, you make rough sketches for everytime your brain can come up with a different basic shape, or eyes or wheels, or material or whatever. Again, the more you spend time on ONE drawing, the more you are restricting your brain to freefloat/daydream....so keep it quick, quick, quick, quick.

Next step is very important, cause now you focus on the GOOD stuff only and IGNORE on the bad stuff - don't waste time on how bad one line was or how bad you made that perspective drawing or whatever. That wasn't the intention, so you haven't 'failed' yourself. Get that ?
So focus on anything that you think has the potential of becoming something good...like thinking "Ah, I think this idea has some ideas for improvement".

I waste plenty of time on rough ideas without even thinking about functionality.
So once you decided on the shape and some details, work out detail


The things that you will learn is:
- Not to waste time on being perfect when it doesn't matter.
- To keep working with only good ideas and train your brain to ignore bad stuff.
- To allow yourself some time to get a better idea of your object, dimension-wise. This will improve your understanding of your object. (The shape, the tone, etc). You need time for that....imagine that you're blind and have to feel what a statue looks like....that requires a bit of time.
- The more you work on an idea, the better it becomes. That's a rule that counts for everything in life, especially art.

Don't consider yourself as a failure or a novice - try agree with yourself that you haven't given yourself enough time to understand your own project/idea.
Most stuff just looks bad because of a lack of understanding of it's shapes and a lack of details.

I often surprise myself of how much I can achieve by taking the time to understand the shape, shadows/light, etc.

Have fun!

[Layil]

it sounds to me like youre trying to run before you can crawl. do you remember the first time you tried to write something? or played a video game? or an instrument? anything at all is hard to do the first time around, though if youre naturally talented it may be a bit easier, but not by much. And even then, once youre good at something, you always want to be better at it... its a constant uphill struggle for the rest of your life, so get used to it, but it doesnt have to be bad thing. why do people scale mountians? its such a hard, seemingly sensless thing to do, but its a CHALLENGE. they wont succeed everytime, but its the fighting to get there and the skills you learn along the way that make it worthwhile.

ive been drawing since i was about 2 but i still dont like 90 percent of what i do. i too am a perfectionist, but if i let it stop me from drawing, ill never get any better. if i want to be able to put the images i have in my head down on paper, i have to start somewhere, even if they suck at first. its like this with everything. now, the question you have to ask yourself is how badly do you want to be able to draw? badly enough to spend hours and hours at it? hours alone staring at a piece of paper or a computer screen? hours of cursing and erasing and starting all over again? cause thats what it takes, even for the best artists out there who never seem to make a bad mark, even they have bad days, and even they started out badly.

so, if you want to draw, DRAW! study, read, look and most of all PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! quit whining and get your pencil and do it, cause talking about it and moping about it and crying about it isnt gonna make you any better as an artist. we all started the same, even the best ones out there. and you have alot of people here to support you, and who are going through the same thing. youre not unique, and youre not alone.... :chug:

[regina1323]

we all seem to know what you are going through. I have lots of problems with my art. i also have lots of problems with my life. the depression you can get over i've done it, it took a couple of suicide tries the first time but i learned that those really aren't worth it, they just make you and the people around you feel worse.
one thing you could try with your art:
you said you liked the idea of creative writing, well, write what you want to see on the paper, then draw it.
after the first drawing STOP
if you still don't like it you might try starting over on another peice of paper, even if you have to trace some of the first.keep doing this till the end result is something you can really work with to perfect.
I'm a perfectionist, i know that nothing turns out perfect though.
just like everyother person said, having someone else look at your art really does help. It shows you a new perspective on what your looking at

Okay, i've rambled enough. (and probably misspelled every word in the english dictionary)
hope i helped

~regina

[Hedge-o-Matic]

Originally posted by ohGr


...if I choose that route then I'm just relying on my own talent to live on which isn't a secure life... I'm in such a bind right now.



First off, I'd like to say a bit about self-respect. I teach a lot, and one thing I've always said is that the best teacher is the best student. So what does that mean? It means that those artists you admire, when they look at their own artwork, still see the flaws you fail to percieve. The truth is that every artist will see the lack in their own work. This is the compass that points in the direction they must go to improve. Without a perceptible flaw in your own work, you will be lost, without direction. A professional, or even a master artist, is just someone whose flaws are visible only to themselves. Even Michalangelo struggled with self confidence.

I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it: the only way to learn to draw is to do 10,000 flawed drawings.

But it's more than just a nose to the grindstone. You have to be objective in your self-critique. What works in your drawings? Give yourself some kudos for what you've done well. And what doesn't work? Not sure? Ask someone else, and listen to what they say without getting defensive. A finished piece is your past, and you plan on moving forward, right? Let the constructive criticicm flow.

Also, admit when you're looking at artwork that's more accomplished than yours, without getting bitter about it. Every artist has their inspiration. Don't turn an lofty goal into a squalid prison. Let someone be more accomplished than you. They will pull you up, if you let them.

Lastly, you have nothing to lose by admitting, inside your own head, where nobody else need know, that you think someone is a more skilled artist that you. Keep honest with yourself. It's denial of this that turns your admiration of others into jealousy and self-recrimination.

Remember, the better a student of others you are now, the better a teacher of others you will one day become.

[ohGr]

Thanks for the posts, guys. Some great insight especially Hedge-O-Matic and Layil. Regina, you and I sound alike. Bart, I like the name for that 'empty page syndrome', so true.

[rubinherring]

hey im new to this forum
just read your posts about trouble with art, i too find it hard to get my drawings perfect, i too am a perfectionist and my art is never good enough for me, it always looks wonky, or the heads arent the correct shape, a good way i found to get my pictures right (or suitable enough to me!) is too look at people, real life objects and basically draw roughly the correct shapes or outline lightly with pencil so you can rub it out, then you can adjust it until you think it looks right, a good site i found for hints and a good tutorial is a star wars concept artist by the name of Feng Zhu, he is awesome at concept art and has some good ,basic tutorials on concept design, he has some good links to other concept design related sites including this one aswell! the site is www.artbyfeng.com make sure you go to it. I have found practice is the best way to get better, you will find your own way of fixing things, and style and you will find people will like your drawings more than you do!jsut make sure you look for good help on the net and buy plenty of comics aswell, they gave me a big help because i brought them all the time when i was younger!

If anyone knows of any good books, sites, or anything helpful because i still need some help with improving my skills. There is never any conventions or nothing like that over here!

[OptimusDinkus]

I think confidence comes with over bearing objectives to meet. Once your even given the objectives it helps you assertain a new bound hope for your work. Even if you miss it by a long shot, at least you know it was given to you in the first place. Thats what my teachers and proffessors have been teaching me is that this problem does exist for every proffessional, and this is a method to over come it. Its just like with art or for that matter and profession you wish to ensue, where your never be satisfied unless you know that an objective is in your grasp regardless if you meet it or not (to be honest, when you have meet the objectives of what you want to create, its really sad afterwards and you become even more confused). However, once I start getting paid to do this stuff, and Im shure you would be to, thats when I feel truelly accomplished. Not to mention man if you saw some of the drawings early artists did before they became famous, you would wonder why the hell these people are in muesems now.

[Railboy]

Hey, OhGr. I've been reading this thread & I thought I'd respond.

I'm in the same / in the opposite position that you are. First of all, I feel everything you feel when I draw - I stare in awe at the work of some of the artists on this board and in disgust at a lot of my own work. I can't do proper figure drawing. I can't do lighting. I can never pull ideas out of my head the way I want to, and I share the same dislike of starting something I know won't be a masterpiece. Sketches seem like a waste of time to me - if it's not going to be amazing, why waste the effort, right?

At the same time, I have a friend who thinks my work is better than what he could produce. He's got an even more self-depreciating attitude than I do, so much so that he's paralyzed and can't bring himself to practice. He looks at my stuff and says "See, for you it's easy... you're born with it." And all I can say is no, really, I'm not that good. Look at problems X, Y and Z. I know he thinks I'm just being modest, but I know I don't hold a candle to most well-trained artists.

The things is, I was stuck where he's at now for a long time, and people would tell me exactly what I tell him all the time, which is exactly what everyone's been saying over & over in this thread - just DO it. Over and over. Swallow hard and produce a giant pile of shitty sketches every day you can, and you WILL get better.

I didn't do it, though. Sketching can feel worse than being forced to give an unprepared speech in from of 1000 people, even if you're alone in your room and no one will ever see the final product. But that wasn't really the reason I didn't do it... this is the thing that I've been building up to - I really didn't WANT to get better. Anyone who's been truly depressed will understand when I say that sometimes you have the twisted urge to hate yourself in any way you can, and for me drawing poorly was something for me to latch onto.

Your comments remind me a lot of the way I would talk to people about this problem - I'd have an answer for every suggestion explaining why it won't work... I'd try something but it would result in an even bigger failure... I can't do X because of the way I deal with Y, etc. The truth is that when I stopped using my drawings to feel bad and actually started sketching to get better, I got better very quickly.

Now you may be getting angry and thinking "No, REALLY - I'm serious, I CAN'T do it, I know myself and my abilities," and I'm sure you honestly, truly think that it's all true. But take it from someone who's still got raw palms from clawing his way out of that black whole... a lot if it's in your head, friend.

So anyway, I still think I suck and I still look at other people's work in awe, but I've grown to like my work after getting used to it. It's not amazing, but I see it as better than I used to. And that's not because I'm extraordinarily better, but rather because I'm not using it to hurt myself. I think your problems are starting with depression, and all the art advice in the world won't help you with that.

I may have totally misread you, and I know this is kind of an insensitive way to respond, but I felt I had to say something... I wish someone had shaken me out of my misery when I was dealing with these issues back then. Just give it some thought, I guess.

PS: Forgot to mention... that SAME concept sketch that you posted made me green with envy when I first saw it. :p

[andyf]

"I was obliged to be industrious; whoever is equally industrious will succeed equally well,"
Being humble, J.S. Bach never stressed on his natural talents

This has become a thread more devoted to philosophy than the practical aspects of visual arts.

I think all of us understand your frustration, as all of us have felt it, and many continue to struggle against the flaws in our work.

Imagine, if you will, that levels of artistic ability are represented by an infinite staircase. Hundreds of people going up, and maybe sliding down, everyone taking one step at a time. Some are running and leaping the stairs, others perhaps are in wheelchairs, arduously lifting themselves from one step to the next.

Your goal is represented by a person who is several flights of stairs above you. You gaze at his prowess in wonder and despair of ever reaching his heights. But the truth is, some time in the past, his feet were on the step you are on now. And the only way for you to get there is to keep moving your feet, one step at a time.

Of course natural talent is a factor, but natural talent does not alter the path, it only changes the speed of progression. There are no shortcuts.

To reach the goal, you must persist. You must continue to practice. Maybe you will hate your early drawings, and maybe this will be torture to you. If it is, you must decide for yourself, is the goal worth it? If the goal is worth it, then the pain is the price you must pay.

A lot of people have posted good advice here. Let it sink in, and keep drawing! Everyone here has encouraged you to keep it up, and to keep practicing. That's a pretty consistent theme.

Good luck, and good practice!

[jetpack42]

Originally posted by ohGr

Practice seems to be the consensus but how can I practice if I have no interest in producing garbage? I mean really, drawing after drawing, like you said Unknown, turn out like shit and it doesn't seem like I'm improving in the least. Part of me is thinking that in order to draw like that that I have to be extremely patient and detailed. Wrong. When I do that things become all distorted.



I've been told every artist has 10,000 bad drawings inside them. The sooner you get them out, the sooner you get good. I started drawing seriously at 19 (21 now) so my real struggles with drawing are fresh in my mind still. I've gotten to the point where I can draw "satisfactory"...but really not too good. It's really hard to continue to draw when all you do is crap, but one thing I found really helped to keep me going was that I bought a bunch of George B Bridgman books, and I would draw out of those. Then I would go several times a week to the bus tunnel and life drawing and sketch people there, using what I learned copying his drawings. I still sucked, but I found I could incorporate other artists techniques slowly into my own. I think that's the key to artistic growth, a steady balance of copying (for learning's sake) and applying. Best of luck.

[jetpack42]

"We are told talent creates it's own opportunities, but sometimes it seems intense desire creates not only it's own opportunities, but it's own talents."

-Bruce Lee

[djmez]

ohGr, you're a textbook neurotic. Read "Denial of Death" by Ernest Becker and all will reveal itself.

That's not an insult, by the way, it's an educated psychological diagnosis.

[sixBlade]

manic depression.. been there done that. not over art, I didn't care for art at that point. Everything in my life was going wrong and I don't feel a need to go into details about it. Thing that should stop you killing yourself is this:

When you die, we don't know if there is any life after death, in fact death may be much like switching off a computer, it happens and you're gone forever. No heaven no hell, just gone. In that case why would you end your life early? Your life is never as miserable as you or anyone else thinks it to be. In essence, you live to have fun. You have found you wanted path in life, but it is not an easy one. Being an artist doesn't come naturally to anyone, all the good artists you see will have spent countless hours, days, weeks, years working to get to the level they are at now, and yes they may say they aren't that good, because hell theyre in the same position you're in, they dont think theyre good. As you get better at art you will see more, different things wrong with your art. Being an artist is a constant journey through imperfection, searching for perfection but never reaching it. An artist will never consider himself as good as his idols.

Like others have said you have to concentrate on the good parts of your work. I am a positive newbie in art, I believe far worse than you are, I can't see like an artist in the traditional sense. I have ideas pouring out of my head sometimes, but I can't do any of them the justice they deserve on paper. But I see some good things in everything I do. Some people say ignore the bad things, I say notice the things which are bad but do not go back and try to edit your previous drawing.

Say, for example your drawing of arms is really bad, you look into anatomy of the arm, draw lots of arms (possibly attached to partial chests) until you can get it right in many different positions. You then go back and draw some more full images perhaps similar to the one you had a problem with before and that part should be a lot improved, and you will likely notice other things wrong you want to work on, so you work on these. As you get better you see more problems and constantly work on removing the flaws.

As they say art is 99% perspiration and 1% inspiration. You must work to reach your goals, nobody is ever a natural at art, that person you say you saw who could do it quicker, how do you know she hadn't been drawing, doodling people for many years before, how do you know she didn't spend countless hours perfecting her ability before she went to those lessons with you? Because in all likelihood, she did. Art is not a gift, it is a learned skill just like any other. While it is true that there is a minute fraction of the population who can't do art to save their lives (These people usually have an IQ on level with a drowned ant) the overwhelming majority of us can learn how to draw well, if we put the time into working on it to achieve the level we want.

They also say that the biggest wall the artist has to cross is that of his/her own mind. If you let yourself think that you're crap and give up because of it, well, you're never going to get good. Keep working and it will happen.

One last thing.. you think you're bad, I've seen far worse, including my own work for a start. Your work isn't really that bad, but you have a lot to learn as all of us do.

Put in the effort to do what you want to do.

[sixBlade]

oo and I just found this quote which is relevant to your impatience I think :)

"Doing a hundred heads before understanding how they work is great, so long as by the time you have done them all, you understand volume and proportion to a logical degree. Drawing the heads repeatedly over and over again is boring to only those who refuse to learn, interesting to those who are curious, and fascinating to those who need to know. " - Ron Lemen

from his head drawing tutorial here:
http://www.anticz.com/heads.htm

[neonlights]

Hey ohGr,
I wanted to say that I was (and kind of still am) in your position. I am 14 on Thursday and I have been drawing for years. However, it's only very recently that my drawings have started to show promise. This is how I did it:

I used to like Dragonball/Z and found a need to be able to draw like that. I started drawing freehand Dragonball characters but the results were quite painfull. So I booted up the computer and started searching the web for drawing tutorials. I found some O.K ones but I still wasn't satisfied. After searching more I found www.polykarbon.com. It helped a lot. Try that.

[Archetype]

Wow, it's kinda creepy seeing so many people in the same situation I'm in.

I'm currently in my 3rd quarter of the Game Art and Design program at The Art Institute of California - Los Angeles, and I'm struggling a lot because I honestly don't have faith in my artistic abilities. Right now, I can barely make a mark on a paper without something in my head going "YOU SUCK! YOU SUCK! YOU SUCK!" like 3467806307 times. Started out making a mistake by comparing myself to "better" artists, but later realized I was giving myself an unfair disadvantage by doing so. How? The people I go to school with, for the most part, have been drawing a lot for most of their lives. Me? Off and on, and never did it seriously until now. Doesn't make much sense to compare, right?

Even recently, I've been doubting myself as to whether or not I have what it takes to be an artist. Part of me wants to quit it all and go back to Texas...forget this whole drawing mess and just take a mediocre job or something. But I keep trying because, for one thing, mediocre jobs suck ass. Secondly, while I haven't been as passionate about drawing as I should've been, I've had a desire to create games ever since 5th grade. To have a game released that I helped with (whether it be with art or with programming) would be like the fulfilment of my childhood dream (one of them anyway...the other involves cotton candy. yummy).

This thread has a lot of helpful advice, though. :D It kinda reminds me of my weird but sort of helpful perspective on this. I as an artist, am starting out at level 1. I can't expect to go defeat the final boss (or in this case, create a really spectacular and well-detailed piece of art that would probably be a culmination of my life's work...or something) without a) knowing how to use my equipment, b) learning basic and advanced techniques and spells, and c) leveling up to handle whatever's thrown at me along the journey. Just as if I were playing an RPG, leveling up my abilities requires time, practice, and patience. I could elaborate lots on that, but I don't want to sound more nerdy than I do already. :P

[regina1323]

damn Archtype, thats the best way to put the situation i've ever heard. everything in some way is (or should be), related to gaming! :clapping1

~regina

[cartoonfox]

hmmm, i feel i should post, as i was, just a month or so ago, in exactley the same boat. i used to try and draw something from my head, and it would look like shit. and i would get so frustrated, and then just give up and watch tv or play video games. and i used to think that i'd never be able to draw good. but i kept drawing and kept drawing.

here are some tips to help you. apply these to your daily life and you'll be drawing with a smile on your face in no time...

+ attend life drawing classes.

+ draw draw draw!! both from life (like your friends, your cat, your garden etc) and from your imagination. make sure its about 50/50 split for the time being)

+ get friends to critic your work truthfully. ask them what they can see wrong with it. what looks crap and what looks good. take points from them and get the crap stuff out of your brain, and the good stuff practice more.

+ post your stuff here for critics from a whole load of artisits from all aspects of art, and at all levels. begginer to pro.

+ draw draw draw!!

+ whenever you hear that damn voice in your brain that says "you suck, you suck" tell it to f**k its self. you dont care what that bitch of a voice thinks. who cares? not you!! ...keep doing this and before you know your confidence will grow

+ whenever someone crits your work, i real life or on the forums, dont ever, ever take effence if they say 'bad' things about it (as long as they give constuctive crits) take notes and apply their valuable advice to your next drawings.

+ draw draw draw!!

+ try and give half an hour to drawing every day. get a sketchbook and start filling it. never ever rip pages out. even if they are realy crud. you can look back at these and learn from your mistakes.
after a week or so of that, bump the time up to 1 hour, then 1 and half, 2 etc etc. after a while you'll be addicted to drawing and you'll love it. it'll become your best friend.

+ draw draw draw!!

+ take your sketchbook with you everywhere, so you can draw while waiting in the dentist, on the train, bus, in the park, while in school lunch, in class, where ever, when ever. this will help you to be able to draw with alot of confidence. which is vital if you want to work in the games industry. people will allways be looking over your back, asking questions. so get into practice. but for now, never ever care what people might think of your sketches. they are for you and you alone. (of course you need to post them here, but you get what i meen :D) i used to think this all the time, and so i would allways say to my self "hmmm, what if someone saw this, they would laugh, damn, lets rip this out and play mario kart" :D who cares what someone might think.

+ watch alot of movies, play alot of games! no seriously! ^-^ this will help your imagination. you will be feeding your brain with 1000's of ideas. start to think while your watching or playing, "hmm, what would i do if i had to design this creature or character. how would i design this enviroment differentley". soon you will be able to point out the bad designs from badley made games and movies. this will help you loads. you will be training your brain to think like a games artist.

+ draw draw draw!! i cant stress that enough. despite what you may or may not think. no one,,, NO ONE, is born with drawing skills. no one is born and then can draw awsome stuff. its just that some people can help them selfs. but most (like you and me and lots of others) need help from others to get into artist mode for life. so whenever you see some awsome game art, dont ever think "damn its not fair" ever again. get that attitude out of your system. instead, think, "wow, thats a nice drawing, i wonder how long he's been drawing for. nice design..." ... and then "hmmm, what would i change if i had to draw a character for this game" ^-^


...ok i think thats it for now. the biggest thing i can say for you is draw every day, and dont get put off by your own work. just keep looking for the 'light'. keep looking for the day when you can be proud of your drawings. keep yourself in this frame of mind and that day will come sooner than you know it.



i hope that helps, and please post all your stuff here on the forums. there are so many artists here ready to help you and others in the same boat.



...go for it and never, ever give up





peace

[ohGr]

Thanks for the replies. Cartoonfox, wow. Totally inspirational and I've learned a lot from your advice, thanks. One thing I haven't been doing is drawing, drawing, and drawing. I just draw and that's it. The reason I don't draw is because I'm really afraid to draw from my head so I wait until I get home to jump on my computer and draw from pictures I get off the web. It tunes the way I see and draw as well as improves my confidence but I'd much rather prefer to draw from my head these images.

Archetype, I hope you get through with the program and don't give up on it. I think it's an ancient myth that drawing is an unlearnable feat whereas I've made drastic progress from just posting and reading on these forums. This forum has proven invaluable as my growth as an artist. And I have to agree with Regina that you put that in perfect retrospect with comparing it to a RPG.

Sixblade, great quote. I'm going to check out the tutorial.

[The Iconoclast]

I'm so glad I found this thread. I'm fairly confident, but I tend to use my age (15) as an excuse to avoid drawing as much as you guys, but I also understand that somebody's age can't excuse something. Still, cartoonfox's reply just blew me away (especially that part about watching TV :D )

Anyways, ohGr --

I suggest you draw, like everyone else has suggested, but always draw when you want to. I can think of a thousand billion instances where I've been like "HEY I JUST GOT AN IDEA FOR A DRAWING", but I just jumped into the couch and watched some more TechTV. Don't let these opportunities pass and, at the very least, draw a couple quick sketches so you can remember the inspiration and the feeling and taste of being inspired.

Artists aren't just people who learn to draw a bone and throw on some muscles and skin. Remember that anatomy and shading and light and all that crap is just a way to express art. The actual art is culture. It's a bunch of ideas, thoughts, adventures, concepts...Life drawing is just a part of expressing art.

^^That^^

is what inspires me.

[OptimusDinkus]

Im preaty shure the guy who made that concept had hundreds of anatomy pictures and augmentation shorts as well (Like on discovery channel and what not) not to mention cadavere pictures as well, who knows. Usualy I find my concepts come out better if I surround myself in the flesh of anything I can find and study it carefully.

[cartoonfox]

i'm glad i could inspire some people with that post. heh i even inspired myself once i read what i wrote :D


one thing i forgot to mention was, even though i was talking about getting confidence, it is vital not to get over confident. this will kill your inner desire to learn, as you will think that you are a drawing machine and that you are the best. :D this may sound like "duh, thas not gonna happen to me" but it does happen, so be carefull.

confidence is very important, but just allways make sure you know where you stand.

confidence is one of your biggest friends. over confidence is one of your biggest enemys.



peace

[OptimusDinkus]

I remember when I was offered money to draw in highschool I got over confident.......