How does concept art benefit society?

[KennethHunter]

I see myself working hard to obtain the proper skills needed in this field but I keep asking myself how does concept art benefit society. I plan on establishing a comfortable living after acquiring the proper skills so I guess the only way is to volunteer my time to orphanages or giving donations to reputable charities? Any other ideas on how we as concept artist or any type of artist for that matter can help society and at the same time increase their bank accounts? I like money but I also want to make contributions someday.

[s.ketch]

Well concept art specifically provides entertainment as well as promotes the knowledge of art and technique to another generation. As long as concept art jobs are needed, there will be artists. A little deeper and the art produced provides somewhat of a commentary for today's society. Social subconscious symbols are apparent as well as what properties are demanded by our economy ex) "Sex Sells."

Of course a lot of concept artist do personal art on the side. That art and the by products of that art can affect society in any way the artist pleases.

[BlightedArt]

Could you imagine a world without art? I can, it'd be so boring x_X

[Shinn]

*slowly leaves thread....*

if you want to help society, dont draw.

[kab]

You benifit society by providing a service and creating content. The content created by an artist's effort is able to inspire and grow on it's own by interacting with people in individual ways. Art has the potential to change the world, just imagine how many companies and jobs have been created because of someone being isnpired by art in one form or another.

And your art and your time is worth money, so never feel bad for charging what you're worth. And doing art for charities is likely somethign that can be both rewarding and make you grow as an artist as well =)

[Reign]

I don't know why people get so emo about making money from art. It's called working. How does it benefit society? It feeds your kids.

If you want to change the world, go ahead. We all have grand ideas about our own superprojects. In the meantime however, get good at art so you can get a job. it's as simple as that.

Buckweisel did say some good stuff. At the end of the day though, there's no use being a starving artist for some noble cause that never came into fruition because you refused to work for the sole purpose of making a living.

QFT

I used to have similar doubts. But there is no point in being a starving crusader. Art is a job, society pays good money for it so society does think it is needed. The overhelming majority of people work just to have food and home, and feed their kids, and there is NO shame in being one of them. It shows that you are upstanding citizen willing to work for your bread. U still can be a decent and worthy human being leading a worthy respectable life even if your job does not directly save the whales.

[Oden]

Q: Who interprets the divinity inherent in nature for us today? Who are our shamans? Who interprets the unseen for us?

A: It is the function of the artist to do this. The artist is the one who communicates myth for today. But he has to be an artist who understands mythology and humanity and isn't simply a sociologist with a program for you.

what's another good one..

If the final goal of image is vision, then the final goal of Metaphor is Myth, which is a narrative derived from taking the figurative literally

that quote was referring to writing, but I've always thought the potential for illustration, which is basically art with a narrative, to be a vehicle for myth-telling to be pretty high.

anyways, I know that sounds pretentious, especially coming from an artist of extreme crappiness like me, but don't dismiss the idea right away. There's always gonna be a need for it in the world, and it can be a goal for any artist, and definitely a benefit to society...benefits aren't always material.

And for all you rationalists out there, "divinity inherent in nature" doesn't have to be anything other than a metaphor for the human respect for, and connection with, nature. :P

[Hamsta]

Maybe you can quiet your conscience by working on edutainment titles instead of more adult titles?

[Bill]

"So long as there are artists among us the world will be posessed of an ever increasing amount of beauty."

Don't remember who said that.

edit: I googled the quote and the only thing that came up was when I dropped the same quote in a different thread. I dunno.

[Jason Manley]

We are headed toward more social responsibility here. We have a month long contest coming up which will benefit Africa and I am working on some things for a cause which means a lot to the creature folks here and many of us who have appreciation for animal life and that is the problem of endangered species. We are only as good for the world as we want to be and we have far more power as artists than just to entertain. CA is growing up and I am glad to be a part of that. We have good stuff to do.

Art has the power to change the world. It is happening. CA's fave charity Project Hope is a great example of that. Anyone who thinks art cannot change the world needs to do more research into how art has impacted culture. We can communicate and we can inspire and there are ways that can benefit all of society.


jason

[el coro]

if you want to help the poor and disadvantaged, drawing orcs and space marines is probably not the most direct way to go about it. you could always tell yourself that you draw things that inspire people, and that can be viewed as a positive thing, i guess...

my thing is that i've always tried to teach and share what information i've learned over the years with younger artists. i rationalize that this is the best thing a working artist can do, pass on the info and help folks who share a similar interest.

art in general tends to be a very mastubatory profession, so i think the best way to "pay it forward" it to show other folks how to earn a living masturbating like you do..

[Reign]

reigh, no artist in their right mind wants to starve, but it's more complicated than just feeding your kids. Would you feel happy making art for grand theft auto? or any other negative title? oden, thanks that's something to thing about, hamsta, indeed I plan to cater my work to titles that aren't so negative. I have a conscious and I support positive things, positive music etc...

Simple solution: practice. The better you are the more freedom u have to get into projects that stimulate you creatively and morally. Shouldn't be that difficult.

Don't you guys ever look at how freaked up and unfair the world is and think about how you could help, even if it's a little? Idk, I just think everybody has a responsibility to make this world a better place while we are on it. So thinking about how your career choice could help is only natural. I'm not religious but I don't believe after we die that's the end of it, just saying.

Man, we are living on such a mountain of social injustice, that trying to imagine it all is just mind bogling, and trying not to be part of it is impossible without turning amish in the process. And there are like many ways to take care about it. You could stop using deodorants, and spent it on fresh water for poor countries. Or draw dying whales and hope somebody would care. Or draw kick ass space marines and orks, earn lots of money and use it for charity. Or draw kick ass space marines and orks, earn lots of many and use your free time for betterment of mankind. Or participate in projects where kick ass space marines and orks are metaphores and the subtext of the project expands consciousness of the users.

Lots of ways to do it. But they all require you to learn to draw well first. All but the deodorant one, you can do that one today ;P

[Ian Barker]

reigh, no artist in their right mind wants to starve, but it's more complicated than just feeding your kids. Would you feel happy making art for grand theft auto? or any other negative title? oden, thanks that's something to thing about, hamsta, indeed I plan to cater my work to titles that aren't so negative. I have a conscious and I support positive things, positive music etc...

Don't you guys ever look at how freaked up and unfair the world is and think about how you could help, even if it's a little? Idk, I just think everybody has a responsibility to make this world a better place while we are on it. So thinking about how your career choice could help is only natural. I'm not religious but I don't believe after we die that's the end of it, just saying.

I think it's safe to say that 95% of the people on this board would be thrilled out of their minds at a chance to work on GTA.

I like what you're saying though. Your big picture conscience is something most people don't have... if they did this world would be a much better place, imo.

[Matt Dixon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYB0VW5x8fI

Terence gives his opinion at 2:30.

[Qitsune]

I have a good friend who's a fine painter and a muralist and she regularly leads mural projects with street kids and community centers. It's also a good way for her to improve her visibility. So there you go. If you have never tried doing cartoony characters live for a bunch of little kids, you can try it, they often go nuts and start yelling special requests. There's plenty of stuff you can do, if I remember well, Stoph built his portfolio doing pro bono work for the salvation's army. It's not like you can be a professional art missionary and make good money doing that (in general) but artists often donate pieces to charity auctions.

[Keeviin]

Why does everything need to have a function, a benefit, something useful? You only live once, create beauty for the sake of itself.
Art that helps society is prostitution, oppose it to make a contribution.

...I'll shut up now-

[Katfayheirti]

I think as a concept artist you have the opportunity to consider how your work impacts societal and cultural views. Entertainment art isn't created in a vacuum, and even orcs and space marines can have a subtext. (just look at Avatar)

I know that personally, when I work, I struggle with questions like
"what affect will the super sexed-up bra-armor-wearing warrior chick I'm drawing have on the perception of women in gaming culture?"
or
"what will adding 'tribal elements' to the costuming of the enemy group in the game imply within the context of a world that is still struggling with post-colonialism?"

That doesn't mean I won't go ahead and draw the smexay warrior chick or the tribal enemies because at the end of the day, hey I'm getting paid and I have it tough too! But still....I think it's important to be aware of how the images you create rest within a larger cultural context and what the players/viewers are ultimately going to take away from the game/film.

[Ilaekae]

The greatest benefit to society in general for having fields like concept arts, advertising, illustration, gallery art and other creative fields is to concentrate the lunatics in small isolated easily-recognized "tribal" fields that allow the normal people of the world to go about their business with less chance of infection from contact...

[Baron Impossible]

Would you feel happy making art for grand theft auto? or any other negative title?

Deliriously so. And if you wouldn't you've just added one massive blockage in your route to becoming a concept artist.

[fersteger]

A good way to use your art skills to help society would be to be educational in your work. The more your work gets someone thinking the better. Most art, especially entertainment oriented, is boobs, guns, and violence. As a concept artist you are in a position to put forth a different vision of the world, one that doesn't revolve around violence perhaps but science. Or nature, or social equality and freedom.

If you are responsible for creating the main character, it's likely to be a hormone fueled,bald-shaven grizzly muscle man. Though in theory you could make it a gay man and then as more gay main characters appear in games (not flamer media gay, just gay) homosexuality becomes more commonplace and accepted and a little social equality is served up.

Or say you're responsible for the environment art and it takes place in an African village. Rather than generic lion king backgrounds you can show thousands of malnourished refugees lined up for some rice. And maybe it'll spark something in a young kid playing the game and they'll hop on wikipedia, get even more inspired and knowledgeable of the world at large, and after college devote their life to philanthropy.

Though there's always business and managers and nearly everything else trying to prevent you from molding the world into a better place, everything you do can be your message or movement.

But yeah, art can benefit society in any way you can imagine, just think out how, then do it (or at least believe in what you're doing).

[dpaint]

As an artist there are lots of ways to make an impact without having to make art with a message in it(something that I find boring usually). You can give time, money or actual art for the things you care about.

With funding for art being cut at schools donate your time and go in and talk about making concept art to kids. Art was a way out of gangs and jail for me as a kid growing up. I never went to college, art was all I had, so I never underestimate its power to change or save a life.

I care about the environment and animals so I have shows that support things like Nature conservancy and the like, where a portion of my proceeds are donated directly to the organization. It allows people who buy from the show to get something they want and donate to a cause at the same time.

I also donate original art to organizations for their fund raising auctions. There are allot of organizations looking for auction items for fundraising. These same organizations need help with art for logos and websites, newsletters, brochures, tshirts, fliers; there are all kinds of things that you can donate your ability for, so the organization doesn't have to pay for it.

Like El Coro said teaching is also a good way to give something back to the community. I also donate my time with free painting demonstrations to local art communities.

[armando]

Based on what I've studied this is what I currently believe: Overall concept art doesn't benefit society. Most concept art isn't pure art but sensationalism, a manipulation of physiological impulses through provocative images. All art embodies the ideology of the artist. The problem is the artists are too young, inexperienced, and not intelligent enough to synthesize large amounts of info. Thus the art that is produced is an incoherent mish-mash of different cultures and ideas. This chaos enters the mind of the viewer of art, producing bewilderment and a sense of being out of place within the world. For this reason it can be argued that teaching techniques to such artists does not benefit society, but can be likened to handing out weapons for madness.
Because you 1986, and anyone similar, feel a desire for something better, it will be embodied in your art, even in the stuff you do solely for money. In the words of N.C. Wyeth "an artist must be greater than his works", the works being fragments of the self.
Everyone's talking about "save the whales" and this kind of stuff, but there are more basic and personal problems that need to be addressed. I think one simple problem in our culture is the disconnect people have with their own bodies. A good example of videogames addressing that problem is the Wii.

[dpaint]

Armando,

that is the most uninformed, rediculous thing I've seen on this site so far. I completely disagree with your opinion. Anytime art mixes cultures it brings new light to them. Stupidity and bigotry fade in the light of experience with new things and cultures, through books and movies and games.
The fact that I can converse with people in opther countries sitting at my computer desk only enriches experience and the free flow of ideas. This is why Fascist totalitarian regimes limit internet access and other media to their populace, they don't want them to know what is going on in the rest of the world.

[armando]

dpaint, you completely misinterpreted what I wrote. This is the problem, the inability to correctly interpret and evaluate things. New light isn't brought by mixing cultures, but by interpreting and evaluating experiences. What I was talking about is a superficial blending of cultures: taking various images, and icons that have nothing to do with each other, and thereby creating a product which is incoherent and self-contradictory.

[Randis]

Overall concept art doesn't benefit society.

Entertainment is one of the most popular activities since there is a society.

Most concept art isn't pure art but sensationalism, a manipulation of physiological impulses through provocative images.

What is pure art?

The problem is the artists are too young, inexperienced, and not intelligent enough to synthesize large amounts of info.

I think you mixed up concept art with deviant art.

Everyone's talking about "save the whales" and this kind of stuff, but there are more basic and personal problems that need to be addressed.

What does that have to do with concept art?

I think one simple problem in our culture is the disconnect people have with their own bodies. A good example of videogames addressing that problem is the Wii.

There is a difference between addressing a problem and filling a hole in the market. Donuts were not invented because people are starving and wii was not created because Nintendo is concerned about your health. If you want to make sport, you should go in some fitness studio.

[Randis]

This is the problem, the inability to correctly interpret and evaluate things. New light isn't brought by mixing cultures, but by interpreting and evaluating experiences. What I was talking about is a superficial blending of cultures: taking various images, and icons that have nothing to do with each other, and thereby creating a product which is incoherent and self-contradictory.

where did you learn that? The cultures are mixing all the time, all over the world. Since thousands of years people try to import foreign wisdom, incorporate foreign architecture, learn and combine new technologies, art, music food.

Having a robot chick with western armor and Japanese katana is nothing different than serving California sushi rolls, having a Chinese gate in the berlin Zoo, having Japanese business men wearing western suits instead of kimono. Cultures mix all the time, everywhere, in every aspect. Visual arts, music, food, architecture, you name it.

[Armonah]

dpaint, you completely misinterpreted what I wrote. This is the problem, the inability to correctly interpret and evaluate things. New light isn't brought by mixing cultures, but by interpreting and evaluating experiences. What I was talking about is a superficial blending of cultures: taking various images, and icons that have nothing to do with each other, and thereby creating a product which is incoherent and self-contradictory.
New light is brought by both mixing cultures and interpreting and evaluating experiences. It's a mix between learning of the present and the past, ourselves and other people/cultures. It's not either/or, but both.
And yes, mixing two things can turn into something that's incoherent and self-contradictory, but there are plenty of examples out there that prove that blending of cultures can go together just fine if executred properly, and even lie at the foundation of to a whole new genre of art, literature, or architecture.

[armando]

At this time I would like to recommend Irving Copi's "Introduction to Logic".

"Having a robot chick with western armor and Japanese katana is nothing different than serving California sushi rolls"
These are sensations not art, they're flavor experiences. Art can be summarized as the interpretation and evaluation of life experiences, which are then transmited to the viewer. There is no interpretation on the part of someone presenting sensations. Just like there are geniuses of intellectual intelligence, there are geniuses with this what could be called "vital intelligence".
When someone superficially takes from different cultures, they take the images without bothering with the meanings, but the meanings are still there and wind up in a state of confusion. I'm not refering to the best artists, if that isn't obvious.

[Randis]

Art cannot be summarized; art is a universal language of expression without boundaries or rules written in stone. Trends come and go, if green and pink does not fit today, it may fit tomorrow.
People experiment and refine all the time, feel free to combine whatever you like and express yourself in any way possible. You can paint robo chicks or glue rubbish together, paint abstract forms with your nose on a wall, as long as someone will like or hate what you do, you will communicate.
All artists are bad at some point and that goes for any form of artistic expression.

[TASmith]

Concept art is an industry the helps visualize imagery for films, comics, videogames, and various other, similar projects. The extent that it contributes depends in part on what these projects are. When a large project employs a large number of artists, that helps them support their families, etc. That's a benefit. When the project is educational, helping children learn important subjects, that's a benefit. When it deals with a social issue, educating a general audience in problems, such as the film Blood Diamond, that's a benefit. When the project presents a story which may be fluff, but still fascinating, like Harry Potter, it can inspire millions of people especially children. This is a benefit. When art is used for charity work, there's a benefit.

Armando, bear in mind that you're basing your opinions here on a definition of art you've refined with Chris Bennett and Kev Ferrera that isn't widely accepted. So using it as a basis for this argument is going to face opposition. Saying work like that of Randis isn't art, but just a flavor sensation... Personally I believe it's much more important and beneficial for society that each person can come up with their own definition for art, than for there to be one "true" definition, forced down our throats.

There are tons of concrete ways art benefits society. Searching for some greater, ephemeral higher purpose to it all may be worthwhile, but it doesn't discount everything else that's going on. To say none of the above matters is to say the lives of the people affected don't matter.

[dpaint]

Armando,

You don't get to difine art for anyone but yourself. You may have an opinion on what or what isn't art or what or what is good or bad art but that is just your opinion. We all have them and most of us probably wouldn't agree about it.

[Katfayheirti]

At this time I would like to recommend Irving Copi's "Introduction to Logic".


Sorry Armando, but all I get from this is that you think that we, unlike you, are not gifted with the ability to sort through enough information or do enough research to make sense of our art within the larger context of the world, and because we're naive little artists, not geniuses or supercomputers we should just give up. Am I getting this right?

[squidmonk3j]

I think armando offers some interesting thoughts here. Simply because an idea conflicts with the popular "We're All Special Snowflakes"-theory doesn't mean it's necessarily insane and evil.

[Pigeonkill]

If art inspires, motivates or makes people happy...isn't that good enough? Maybe you can design safer educational toys for children, or illustrations in National Geographic? But there's nothing really stopping you from creating your own fundraiser or donating art to a good cause.

At East Bay Regional Park District I would design and illustrate info panels at Camp Arroyo to promote recycling and pro-green themes. The camp is open to terminally ill and disadvantaged children, it was nice place where they weren't judged based on their background. The majority of camp itself is made out of recycled materials, which was really neat.

[armando]

Sorry Armando, but all I get from this is that you think that we, unlike you, are not gifted with the ability to sort through enough information or do enough research to make sense of our art within the larger context of the world, and because we're naive little artists, not geniuses or supercomputers we should just give up. Am I getting this right?

You're getting it wrong. I was annoyed by the degree of misinterpretation that was happening. If people want to communicate more efficiently they have to know something about logic. What I'm writing is an amalgamation of things I learned from people older, smarter, and more experienced than me.
The type of intelligence I was refering to I labeled as "vital intelligence" which I understand as an ability to interpret and evaluate life. Just like there are geniuses in physical science who make various discoveries which improve our life, so there are geniuses of this other nature making different kinds of discoveries. In the same way as we get used to the discoveries of the scientist, so too we take the other discoveries for granted, unaware of the effect on our life. Just like the scientist can't progress in knowledge without building on the discoveries of the past, it is the same with the artist. Not everyone has this ability. It isn't disrespectful to admit that, rather it's disrespectful to pretend that everyone can do it thus undermining the greats. It's also not disrespectful to admit that the majority of "artist" are actually just a bunch of dabblers who quit after a few months.

[Amber Alexander]

Until you get to a point in your career were you can be more hands-on with charities to give back, just do what I do, donate 1% of whatever you make, every pay check to the charity of your choice (mine is the American Red Cross). Its a small enough amount that you won't miss it but its enough that at least you're doing something.

Also you don't have to be an amazing artist to give back, especially to children. While I was growing up, one of my dad's friends created "The Carpet of Peace". This "carpet" would be taken all over the world and children were told to draw a copy of their hand on a piece of construction paper and decorate it with any messages of peace. Then they would shake the the creator's hand (Doug Erwin) and he'd give them a speach about how they were then shaking the hand of everyone else on the carpet. This "carpet" had so many hands that it ended up being over afootball field long. It was a project that I was proud to volunteer with and it deserves to be in a museum some day.

A project like that didn't require artistic skill (although he is a great artist), just think of a project and you can find a way to make it a reality.

And for those replying with sarcastic remarks, shame on you. People who want and do give back should be encouraged because it doesn't happen enough.

[TASmith]

Armando, what you're saying is interesting, but I think you should give some examples, both of the geniuses that have discovered (what exactly? self reflections, new art techniques or styles?), and the flavor sensations that merely confuse.

[Reign]

I don't know why people get so emo about making money from art. It's called working. How does it benefit society? It feeds your kids.


I think it comes from the two alternative perceptions of an artist: one as a useless entertainer, a clown to amuse you , OR as some kind of visionary prophet, messaiah of life's truths, nothing short of a second jesus.

Nobody questions the necessity of shoe-sellers to the society. Also nobody expects them to change the world. They can live in peace and just do their work.
Not so with an artist. As you can see in this thread, even artists themselves go out to call their job useless or "masturbatory". Nobody wants to feel useless, so to feel better they might fall into the second extreme "the allimportant messaiah", which on the other hand may make them feel unsecure about their financial stability as well as maybe not worthy of the Mission. So you are either useless or starving and ucertain. Combine it with the fact that to become either you need to work your ass off practicing (instead of just getting hired in a shoe shop) and you know where "angst" comes from.

I really wish there was more respect to an artist as an accomplished craftsman, without deriding him for just doing his job.
That is why my comments might be snarky, and do keep your shame to yourself, I ain't buying.

Armando

I am not sure what to read from your to posts, but the only view I seem hold similar to yours is that I believe that in order to create wise and meaningful art you need to be a wise and meaningful artist, and being wise and meaningful is something not everybody has. I do not believe that you need to be some sort of born genius to create meaningful art, and I am opposed to not calling meaningful art -"art".
And I dont know many scientists but Im pretty sure most of them are intelligent but overall quite normal people working in teams to do their job. Geniuses are rare. And refusing a title of "scientist" to anyone who is not Einstein is just plain wrong.
By analogy so is claiming that artist's art is a worthless "confusion" without worth or meaning just because he is not <enter a name of your fav artist here>.

[Slash]

Chainmail bikinis by day, save the whales, the aids and the ice caps by night. Thats how i do it.

And don't feel bad, things that are good for society are often very bad for the environment. For every plastic wrapped random item you DON'T buy you save .004 of a whale.

[squidmonk3j]

A consumer society benefits from those that produce consumables. Now, whether or not a consumer society is a benefit to its population...is a different matter:)

[JeffX99]

May be too late to jump in but here's my two cents...

Concept art is an industry the helps visualize imagery for films, comics, videogames, and various other, similar projects.
Actually concept design for entertainment is only a small piece of the pie which has developed from the larger Industrial Design field. In general, every product that goes through a planning, enginieering, and manufacturing process, from architecture to toys, is designed by artists before anything ever happens. Anyway, whether another new cell phone is a "benefit" to society is questionable...but as has been pointed out it certainly benefits the person designing it to make a paycheck.

In the larger view...I believe artsits are the most important people in any given culture - as the visionaries who provide insight into the human condition and those that design and thus drive technology, artists are at the nexus of both social commentary and practical application.

Visaul Art is the oldest form or recorded human activity we have somewhere in the 100,000 year range now - yes we were probably dancing, playing music and engaging in sporting competitions but that is all ephemeral and could not benefit from being recorded on cave walls and sealed with natural varnish. To address Armando's point - I'm not sure there is any difference between drawing a bison hunting scene on a wall and drawing a Japanese girl in chainmail with katanas.

I too was very much concerned about the same question of contributing to society - the best advice I heard when I was young was to make as much money as I could and supprt/donate to charities/causes as I felt I could.

[nauvice]

my teacher gave a story about his friend, a comic artist who was asked to draw a How to comic for a small illiterate town in India. And the feedback he was getting was why are some of the people's bodies cut off. He used borders and the people there weren't really familiar with that western style of storytelling at all. Thought it was funny, because I never even thought about it that way. Anyway, I think art is a tool for communication, and communication is definitely helpful and needed in society. cultural differences might not enable everyone to get the art, just like not everyone across the world knows what a thumbs up mean.

and about being a concept artist for GTA, I dont think what's helpful to society has to be so straightforward or obviously spelled out for us. its a game and there are many proven positive aspects of videogames, but I dont mean to derail the thread.

[Jason Rainville]

Chainmail bikinis by day, save the whales, the aids and the ice caps by night. Thats how i do it.

And don't feel bad, things that are good for society are often very bad for the environment. For every plastic wrapped random item you DON'T buy you save .004 of a whale.

It's too bad that concept artists contribute to creating goods like toys, video games and movies with packaging that's all plastic :/


In the larger view...I believe artsits are the most important people in any given culture.

And I'd disagree. In a huge disaster, when society is all but destroyed, many dead and injured and our physical infrastructure is about to collapse, you don't have people running through the streets yelling "I need an artist!" they need doctors, engineers, mechanics, tradesmen and those with practical knowledge that benefits them right then and there.

That's what our society is built on, that's what the majority of people do, and I really hate some of the elitism I see when artists talk about their feild and how others didn't quite "make it." It's a good thing we have those who do the mundane jobs so we don't have to worry about where our food comes from, how the parts of every device we own is made, ow our water is processed, how the roads are maintained and how goods are transported so can make pretty pictures all day.

I'm not saying that artists are good for nothing though, don't get me wrong; in times of crisis artists can inspire and raise awareness, and we need those who speak a visual languange to make information easier to process and goods and services easier to sell. But in a crisis I'd rather have one guy who knows how to drive a backhoe or knows how to wire up a building than a whole team of artists. Artists are the icing on the cake of society, and a neccessary cog in the entertainment industry, but I really don't think they're the most important people in society.

[JeffX99]

That's fine to disagree - but please don't go off on personal stuff like "elitism" and how "others didn't make it" implying they are worthless.

Anyway, you make some really good points - I was just expressing my ideas about things in a very abstract sense. Everyone is important and I should have worded that more like "the artist's role in society". I don't want to get in a big thing over it because it is more of a pub conversation than something easily discussed here. But I'll try to give a little bit of an example of what I meant: artists are the driving force behind the development of technology - so are responsible for that backhoe - the buildings, etc. The reason I think this is: when you have two people chipping at stones to make tools, points, a better way to throw a spear - the artist will likely create the better tool, implement that is more finely crafted and therefor better - thus improving society.

Like I said - pretty abstract and more just a discussion point.

[Pigeonkill]

“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”

-Albert Einstein

[Jovian M]

I dunno. It provides jobs for all of those slackers who didn't want to be doctors.

[kev ferrara]

Imaginative design has quite often resulted in real world inventions.

A great many inventions that have come to pass were first introduced in science fiction (lasers, satellites, global communications systems, telescreens, two-way wrist radios, test tube babies, portable media, nanobots, scuba diving, cloaking devices, robotic protocols, cloning, etc.)

Think through the problems you are faced with and seek out the fresh solution. And you may find you have set in motion a chain of inspiration that will change the world.

Free your mind in your work, and you may free another's.

kev

P.S. TA, you probably shouldn't assume Armando is parroting anybody. That was a pretty cheap ploy to get some more of those dearly loved Lounge Points™ of yours.

And I don't enjoy your attempts to marginalize me by pretending to speak for others in saying that my ideas "aren't widely accepted." You don't know what I believe. You don't know who has understood me properly, and who among them has sympathy with my take on things. So remember, you speak for yourself only. Learn to keep your online popularity politics off my radar and we'll be cool. Thanks.

EDIT: :rolleyes: Guess that was too much to ask. Way to double down on your cheap shots. Try this: Address the argument alone. And your point about what I said about respect in that free speech/cartoon thread has been completely ripped out of the context. Your entire post below was irrelevant... just ad hoc slanders in bad faith as a way to justify your previous irrelevant remarks. Awful.

[JeffX99]

Hey Thanks Pigeonkill! I also always liked, "Imagination is more important than knowledge".

[TASmith]

Posted by Kev:
"P.S. TA, you probably shouldn't assume Armando is parroting anybody. That was a pretty cheap ploy to get some more of those dearly loved Lounge Points™ of yours. And I don't enjoy your attempts to marginalize me by pretending to speak for others in saying that my ideas "aren't widely accepted." You don't know what I believe. You don't know who has understood me properly, and who among them has sympathy with my take on things. So remember, you speak for yourself only. Learn to keep your online popularity politics off my radar and we'll be cool. Thanks."

Kev, I've read over all your statements on art, I know what you believe, and saying it's not widely accepted is a fact, not a critique, it has nothing to do with the value of your statements. And I'm not speaking for anyone when I say it. I never implied Armando was parroting anyone. What I said was not about forum politics, but pertinent to the discussion, as Armando's views on art had to do with what does or doesn't benefit society, etc.

On the topic of forum popularity, so far as I can tell, we both only want to participate normally in discussion, to be well liked, respected, learn a bit about new topics, and have a few laughs. But look at how you go about it. If I do a forum search on topics you've posted in the lounge, all I see are entry points for debate in which you pick some random person to squash in your endless pursuit of the "truth". Because the truth is always more important than how you treat other people on this site, to the point where no one's sure if you care so much about that, or soothing your own beast of an ego. It's getting to the point where we need a support group for all the bashing you've done. Hell, I can't even talk about the weather without you calling me a mind-controlled lemming.

I'm not writing here for your enjoyment. I don't care what you think or what's on your radar. The discussions on this site are not made just for your benefit. I was taken aback in your recent Danish Cartoon post that you went so far as to tell Marria, "you've lost my respect," on the first thread where you two even spoke together, especially when I was able to get him/her to say something you could agree with, by treating Marria nicely. That's you in a nutshell. You think the point of each little discussion is whether we're good enough for your respect? Why would anyone randomly typing on the internet, especially a newcomer from Pakistan who knows nothing about you, give a damn about earning your respect? What about you earning his/her respect? Who died and made you king, kev? Your judgment is not word of law.

Honestly, you're worried about me putting you down, or making you look a fool on this site? Look back at your pattern of conduct, and reevaluate it. Or don't, and just keep editing/deleting your posts, and making silly little duplicate accounts to "thank people" (you're a paragon of maturity, btw)... Eitherway I won't see it. I'm sticking you on my ignore list now, as the quickest, best way for me to enjoy conceptart even more in 2010. And any PM's or messages sent will be deleted without reading. I'm sick of your bullshit. There's too much to cut through to ever get to anything wise. I recommend everyone else do the same.

[FallenGodX11]

Just whatever you do, don't use your art to make fun of society, or sensitive issues. People will get you for this and and you could start a conflict. Just look at the dutch cartoons that made fun of Muslims, and see where it got them. Or the Da Vinci Code that made Catholics angry.

[Anid Maro]

Just whatever you do, don't use your art to make fun of society, or sensitive issues. People will get you for this and and you could start a conflict. Just look at the dutch cartoons that made fun of Muslims, and see where it got them. Or the Da Vinci Code that made Catholics angry.

International fame? Meeeeelions of dollars? One could do worse. :P

[Slash]

Seriously?

I normally don't do this.. but you know..

go draw.

[Kraus]

Concept art on it's own doesn't benefit shit. A concept artist is akin to a factory worker during industrial revolution. Part of a bigger whole. And that 'whole' benefits the society by entertaining it.

So art and creativity in general can benefit by entertaining. Concept art is just one of the cogs in that machine, and not THAT important of a cog either.

[bagtaggar]

Any art is meme-generation, and concept art is another meme generator.

In Darwinian evolution, phenotypes are acted upon by various forces and selected for based on their contribution to the overall fitness of an organism. These phenotypes are the expressions of genes, and the genes have a certain frequency within a population. The variation for these genes comes from subtle mutations, and that mutagenetic potential is measurable and variable depending on the species.

All art, culture, language, etc has a certain "mutagenetic potential", a tiny bit of variance from artist to artist. Occasionally you get a trend setter, the equivalent of a frame-shift mutation or polyploidy, a big genetic change. Big changes can either spell the doom or the success of a species, while small changes tend to accumulate, ratchet the change of a species in the survival direction. The death you see is nature throwing her clay.

Similarly, artists, and for specificity's sake concept artists, represent a certain source of memetic (as opposed to genetic) variation. Our businesses, nations, communities, and individual artists are the organisms. Some memes need to be preserved, for the same reason that some large percentage of genes is preserved from generation to generation: this happens when we go to school for art, or learn here on concept art, or learn from observation of other artwork. We inevitably preserve the core memes, otherwise we would fall apart. Many memes are survival memes: tits, guns, robots. These are standbys, core memetic material that most of the organisms return to for stability. We all vary on these themes slightly in our own way, more or less drastically.

So I suppose that, asking how does concept art benefit society is like asking how does mutation benefit an organism? The answer:

It usually doesn't benefit the individual organism, in fact, most of the time, it doesn't do a damned thing. However on the whole, mutation is the main source of variation for a species collectively to be able to adapt. But nature has killed many, many species that have adapted themselves into a hole, and it's impossible to predict which ones will survive in the long term, too many variables to keep track of.

Concept art is just another source of ideas. Some of them good, some of them bad, the vast majority of them neutral, and the long term outcome is incredibly hard to gauge. "We'll see."

[Adrian Wilkins]

jqxENMKaeCU

if it doesnt work talking about "not available in your contry" just klick on it

[Mr_S_14]

I accidently became a medic, turns out medics are valuable to society , now I can do anything else and not give a s**t whether I'm positively "contributing to society" or not because I get blood on my hands ^_^, not that I really worried about it in the first place. I know who I am, it's not 'til you try something that you find whether you're capable of it or not. If you work your ass off, in no matter what subject or feild, one is contributing to society , Architects : we all need somewhere to live, go to school etc. Illustrators, damn those buildings would be less awesome without the occasional peice of art. hell man just do it and embrace the suck, make the days yours by enjoying every bloody part of them.

[bagtaggar]

Regarding Adrian Wilson's post of the video "Home":

It's a documentary like that which inspires a very strong urge to drop what I'm doing and devote my life to my other great passion: science education.

If you have watched it and have the same urge, consider coming to the International Space Development Conference this year. The main theme will be Space Based Solar Power (SBSP), the ultimate clean energy source.

www.isdc2010.org (http://www.isdc2010.org)

I hope I'm forgiven for the plug....