Artists bidding for jobs.

[Pinback]

I see a fair amount of these bidding auction style things, where artists seeking to recieve a commission will be asked to try to outprice each other, and lowest price wins, or lowest price with the best style, wins, and gets the job. I even seem to recall some site where many artists exclusively compete in pricing battles for jobs.
Now, I can understand employers wanting to peruse artists pricing along with thier work, it goes without saying, they would want to know what they can expect to pay for the art. But to create a bidding war between freelance artists, what's up with that? Am I missing something here, or does this practice seem degrading? Not to mention the fact that it might persistently drive down the working wage freelance artist?

[analoganomaly]

Well I've got a case in point.

I currently have a bid out for a project i need done by a certian date. (the art is intended to be a christmas gift for another artist) i just don't have the time to do the project myself. (not to mention i'd never be happy with it enough to call it done)

While I'm not sure as to the reasons this style of commissioning is used by others- I decided to go with a bid because I was unsure what would be fair to the artist for this kind of work. I've been paid for graphics design and coding work. In coding it's either been a flat rate or done via bid. In graphics design it's been we'll pay you this to do this. More often than not the static price paid for the work isn't worth the amount of work that goes into it. (this is why when i do graphics design it's freelance and usually for one or two companies i've done it for in the past) wouldn't want to be one of those people that's arrogant enough to say they want to spend $20 for something an artist is going to spend 60 hours on. that's absurdly unfair to the artists.

The reason I chose to do it through e-mail instead of the thread is to avoid bidding wars.

Since I posted the project this morning i've gotten bids from artists of varying styles and quality for prices ranging from $20 to $150. Am I going to go with the $20 bid? No. Not because I didn't like the artist's quality (it was actually pretty good) but because the style didn't fit and I'd feel horrible offering someone a mere $20 for an 8 panel full color page. There's just too much work that goes into it.

My concern isn't as much price as it is 'okay, i've got x amount to spend, who's interested, what's their style like, and how much do they want?' Everyone likes choices and while yes the bidding system can have it's downfalls (ie bid wars) those that participate in such things are only ruining it for themselves. Both artist and employer alike.

I think you get what you pay for. someone with a great style that's obviously refined their techniques for a number of years is going to have a little more respect for themselves than to offer out a major undertaking for $20. And those that are willing to offer their talents for that price generally don't have much talent to offer. (there are exceptions to this rule, however they're few and far between.)

as far as sites dedicated to hosting bid-wars I can't imagine why any artist would subject themselves to that. It's their choice to participate in such a thing, or not to. and any employer using a such a site likely won't get much in the way of quality out of it.

Every system has it's merits and pitfalls, it all depends on how it's used.

[Dredwalker]

It seems as if you are questioning ethics. It's business. Artists will try to outbid artists for the job. If there is some moral code that is supposed to be governed by fellow artists amongst themselves, then I say good luck with that. As far as I am concerned, it's not there. But I don't think it will drive down the working wage or it would have done so a long time ago.

[Ebony-chan]

I see a fair amount of these bidding auction style things, where artists seeking to recieve a commission will be asked to try to outprice each other, and lowest price wins, or lowest price with the best style, wins, and gets the job. I even seem to recall some site where many artists exclusively compete in pricing battles for jobs.
Now, I can understand employers wanting to peruse artists pricing along with thier work, it goes without saying, they would want to know what they can expect to pay for the art. But to create a bidding war between freelance artists, what's up with that? Am I missing something here, or does this practice seem degrading? Not to mention the fact that it might persistently drive down the working wage freelance artist?

To tell you the truth Pinback I have never had a problem getting commissions here or lowering my prices. I have told alot of artists here that if you really want to get more commssions. You have to always work on your portfolio ( I'm not saying your artwork is bad, because I've never seen it.) Meaning the better you get the more people will notice you.

To me by lowering your prices or taking part in a bidding war. That tells that employer that you are unsure of you skills as an artist. This is why I always ry to get feed-back on my work. Alot of artist trying to get new or more clients don't understand this. If you good enough and are sure of you skills you won't have to take part in a bidding war as you call it. Plus I've also noticed that many new artists are unsure on how much they should be paid to do a certain job.

I think Concept is great because they have tons and tons of information here to help artists out as far as their prices go. For alot of artists info is the key and an important at that. Sure anyone can do a commission here for cheap. Plus alot of artists make the mistake of thinking they have to work for dirt cheap or free to get noticed.

This is also wrong because alot of people have and epilogue have taught me that. if you work on improving yoursef as an artist the rest will come. In fact you should look around the information threads here. I feel they can help you out alot.

I hope that helps.

[Qitsune]

While I'm fine with artist "bidding" or sending quotes directly to an employer, I have a big problem with places that have open bids because someone will always try to quote under you, that creates a race to the bottom quite fast. That's why in most places bids for government contracts are closed enveloppe things where bids are only opened when bidding is finished so that noone can underbid the others maliciously.

I tend to interpret art like having your roof replaced, are you gonna get the first name in the Yellow pages or are you going to call a few guys, ask for quotes, check their name with the better business bureau, pick the one who's rep and prices fit your budget? Same with hiring an artist.

[Dredwalker]

While I'm fine with artist "bidding" or sending quotes directly to an employer, I have a big problem with places that have open bids because someone will always try to quote under you, that creates a race to the bottom quite fast. That's why in most places bids for government contracts are closed enveloppe things where bids are only opened when bidding is finished so that noone can underbid the others maliciously.

I tend to interpret art like having your roof replaced, are you gonna get the first name in the Yellow pages or are you going to call a few guys, ask for quotes, check their name with the better business bureau, pick the one who's rep and prices fit your budget? Same with hiring an artist.

And that's quite fine. Public or private bidding, its just a matter of taste. Some will see underbidding as something malicious, some won't care, some will see something else. If it is that much of a problem then go the other route as suggested. My thing is that it is not going to bring down any working wage unless you allow it to.

[J Wilson]

Those types of sites will appeal mainly to the type of employers who would likely be a nightmare to work with anyways. From my experience those employers who nickle and dime their budget are the ones who will give you endless revisions because they want to "get their money's worth".

Also, likely to appeal to artists who won't be putting in their best effort (or whose best effort isn't that great or they wouldn't be under valuing it). If they are mercenary in their pricing (and under cutting) what makes you think they won't be mercenary and cut corners (or outright copyright infringe, unknown to you) to make it worth their time?

As either an employer or an artist, those websites aren't doing anyone any favors. I'm guessing many people there are walking away unhappy.

[akosimachineman]

its sad to think of that way, you are exerting your best effort and pricing at your lowest price just to have a good job. this is unfair for the artist. but i know i cant do anything about this flow just want to comment.

[Pinback]

Whoa, there's really a lot of differing opinions on this issue!
I suppose anytime you quote a price for a commission you are in some way trying to 'outbid' other artists, by coming up with a compromise between what you feel your work is worth, and what you think an employer will be willing to pay.

[KKallweit]

its a sorry state of affairs when it comes to bidding wars, I'm not a big fan of that situation. with film in particular, there is always pressure to be the best artist at the lowest price, it's unfortunate for everyone involved.. however I do not profess to have a solution sadly..

[katorse]

Bayt.com is a Scam. There are not jobs on this website, only a lengthy form that leads you to pay for their CV building services. That's all you will be getting from them.Bayt.com and Rabea Ataya is a Fraud. There are many articles on this individual and no one knows why the Dubai police is not doing anything about this fraudster. We demand Rabea Ataya by taken to jail for the crimes of stealing money from Jordanians and innocent Saudi residents.

[katorse]

Rabea Ataya from bayt.com is a fraud. This website is a SCAM and GCC residents need to know this. There are well over 1000 forums that are complaining about this website that the Dubai government chooses to keep in business. We demand Bayt.com be shut down. This is a very tech savvy online scam. Once you register with them, you are forced to pay $1000's for our CV. This is illegal and a sham. Bayt.com is a fraud.