The Trend of Devaluing Your Own Work

[paramnesia]

I read a post on Livejournal today I want to share. This may be preaching to the choir, but perhaps it and any discussion will help someone out there. I'll post some of it then link to the rest.

When you're an artist, people try and take advantage of you in ways they wouldn't if you had a conservative career (though whenever you're self-employed, people will generally try and take advantage of your skills).

They don't know they're doing it, because in a society that doesn't value art for the most part; it's normal not to value artists. And artists often don't know it's happening, because they're part of that society and the trend of devaluing their own work. [...]

That is the culture of art and artists in Western society. People on my friends list are guilty of it. People I meet and hardly know, and people I know very very well are guilty of it. I'M guilty of allowing it (though you can probably tell I'm getting reaaaaaally sick of it now). Friends of mine who are artists participate in this 'I will sell myself short because I'm an artist and you expect me to sell myself short' culture.

It's the expectation that bothers me. It's not like I don't freely give my art as gifts, occasional pro-bono book covers, or haven't sent pictures in the past. I do and have. I genuinely want to.

It's the expectation that because I'm an artist, I exist to do art for others, for free, or for nothing more than a 'gee, you're so talented' (I know that, that's why art costs money, because it's a rare and desirable skill that not everyone can do - even with training). It's the assumption that I am some bohemian who basically wants to spend her entire life sharing my creativity with others, but never making money off it - because bohemians live on tea and noodles and tuna and don't want for anything more than that if they have art in their lives. Right? Wrong. Or at least, certainly wrong in my case. Doctor's appointments, art supplies and a mortgage aint cheap.

(Link to the post) (http://moonvoice.livejournal.com/1075184.html)

[sodAp]

I know that, that's why art costs money, because it's a rare and desirable skill that not everyone can do - even with training

I partially disagree, there are certainly people who are very limited to do art, but those are rare exceptions. I believe with proper training most normal people can get to a professional level, well, thats if they are persistent and hard working enough. Of course not anyone can be michael angelo, velazquez, but anyone can get to the average professional level, I believe.

Art does not cost money because it requires talent, its expensive because just as medicine or aeronautics or whatever, it requires extensive training. You are not only paying for the hours needed to do the job, you are also paying that training that not everyone has gone through.

For me, its precisely the notion of talent that makes people undervalue art: because you are talented, it takes no effort for you to make this pretty picture, and thats a given, you were born like that, plus, you are always drawing and painting, thats what you like to do anyway, why would you mind doing what i want?

[Two Listen]

My response to anyone who doesn't feel art, or my art, is worth paying for - especially because "I enjoy doing art and it won't take me very long":

"You're right, I do enjoy doing art. But let's think of it this way. You're not paying me for my training, you're only paying me partially for the talent, what you're REALLY paying me for - is me spending my time painting your idea as opposed to mine." (Actually I haven't said this to anyone as of yet, that would be rude. But I like to sound tough.)

I have people approaching me with things, from time to time, "You should totally paint this _______, because it'd be super cool. You can do those things in like an hour, right?"

I only halfway care how much time or effort it takes. As much as I like helping people, sometimes people's ideas are just plain stupid. And I'm not going to spend my time painting something I think is a lame idea, unless I'm getting paid for it. It's really that simple. If they don't like it the fact that they have to pay me to paint an idea I have no interest in, well then they can go through the hours of studying and effort for a good few years to be able to illustrate their ideas all by themselves.

Maybe that makes me an asshole, but that's a key thing for me. It's not about the time itself, it's about how I could potentially be using that time to paint something of personal worth and value, not something I think is stupid that I'm not even getting paid for.

[paramnesia]

I believe with proper training most normal people can get to a professional level, well, thats if they are persistent and hard working enough. Of course not anyone can be michael angelo, velazquez, but anyone can get to the average professional level, I believe.

Art does not cost money because it requires talent, its expensive because just as medicine or aeronautics or whatever, it requires extensive training.
You make a good point. It reminds me of a book called The Talent Code that proposes that it's not so much about raw talent but passion, drive, opportunity, etc. Without those, even the most talented individual may get nowhere. Worth a read, especially if you see it on sale, imo.

[Slothboy3000]

If you haven't read this, you should! http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168616&highlight=I+will+-read+your+fucking

[Kraus]

I experience it all around me, but you know why i experience it? Because it's my hobby and i straight up told the people that want my art for free, that i, and only i will be the influence of that shit. I'll do other people's stuff when i secure a career that will barter money for my craft.
Seriously though it's a great way to challenge myself for bigger things because it provides me with oportunity to wizbang them and makes cool portfolio pieces.

[Mordus]

It all depends. I might do a piece for free if:
The brief seems interesting.
I will enjoy it.
It will broaden my horizons.

A recent example of this was my design work for a play called "The Tribe" in which I created the costumes for a hideous menagerie of twisted mutants. Good fun, interesting avenue of thought, get to work with fabrics/ fake blood for the first time. Did it for free and now I can say I did those costumes, which is pure gold portfolio fodder.

[Kaileighblue]

I saw that kind of reaction on a forum I visit. Some guy was offering to do animations for free but asked that people donate. One guy on the forums actually said he should be doing them for free period. It just made me want to kick that guy. It wasn't an art forum though so I wouldn't be allowed.

I've gotten the requests of "Do this because it would be cool." I have actually told people to pay me if they want to see it done. That usually shuts them up right quick. I know "in these times" and all, but I sell myself cheap and I'm one of the better artists in that community. (Sadly.)

I did free stuff when I started out there. They tend to try to take advantage of people who are generous and make them quit the community.

The 'this' 'their' and 'that' I'm referring to is a a particular fetish community.

[Téa_Passer]

My situation seems the opposite -- artworks that I consider mediocre are admired. No one asked me to draw for free, but I don't think I'm that good an artist (yet) to be treated like a gem in the rough. This might seem a nice environment but to me it is very much not so because I want to grow as an artist. :/

[SpaceRogue]

its kinda sad isn't it. When ppl say they are going to art collage the first thing they get to hear a zillion of times is 'what ? are you serious, how are you gone get a fucking job!'

I see it with my dad, he doesn't seem to relice that the magazines, the designs on products we buy, the products too , and so on and so on and so on actually have been drawn one way or another , and that there was actual real work involved. Because of his stupidity he ofter tries to 'sell' me to folks who want a 'pwetty dwagon' on their wall, of course I'm no pro at all, but the prices I'v made logos for just have been outrageous.

[GriNGo]

OT: SpaceRogue - don't confuse logos and drawing/illustration - they are not related to each other and require different methods of working. Are you going to study art or design?

[bjoern3000]

http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p.html

http://clientsfromhell.tumblr.com/

:D

[Amber Alexander]

You're male I presume? Why do you want to work for women -- altruism, or do you have an ulterior motive? I would be suspicious until you explain that issue.


Maybe I missed it but I didn't see anyone say that?

[Ian Miles]

Ff0ijCKhk-o

[cdejong]

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see anyone say that?Just ignore them, there has been an influx of bots adding random comments to totally unrelated topics.