View Full Version : Team ChoW III - Ace Holes
December 11th, 2009, 07:10 PM
Alright, first post to get things going.
Team members :
We need a team NAME ! Figured this would be the best place to discuss it, should be easier than through PMs to everyone each time.
Tommoy has already suggested :
The swimming kangaroo's
Braindead Killer Baboons
Transatlantic Titans from hell
I had suggested some Flemish beer-names earlier on as team name(Dubble and Tripple etc.), but I don't think this would fit the bill any longer. So moving on, I figure there's 4 of us so maybe something like :
4 of a kind
the Ace holes ???
4-stroke Engines (because "4-strokes" would just sound, well, premature hehe)
Cardinal Points -> Cardinals (and no this ain't because of the NFL or baseball ;) )
Frostbitten varmints ?
Fang-toothed critters ?
Suggestions ? I don't reckon anyone's gona get too upset about a team-name, we just need to pick one and all agree.
t i m
December 11th, 2009, 07:39 PM
Transatlantic Titans from Hell
December 11th, 2009, 08:14 PM
Hey guys, good to see we've got our team complete. Hope the four of us can kick some butt. Nice work Nic on setting this up. Lets first choose a team name, from the one's Tim has chosen I like Ttfh and Ace holes the most. Lets wait what B-man has to say. And of course if you guys have better options lets hear them. When we have a name we could make a logo too. Our first job, YEAH.
December 11th, 2009, 09:38 PM
I like Ace holes. Its easy to remember. Bring on logo sugestion. What about a 4 thin selfportraits in some ACE pose. Or maybe uss walking like in reservoir dogs.
December 12th, 2009, 10:30 AM
First logo suggestion. I took the liberty of taking artwork from you guys here and there, for you Nic I couldn't find a zombie portrait that fast so I used something of myself. But it's just for starters...
December 12th, 2009, 11:31 AM
Ah good Ide. But that is a portrait of CA's wery own Stoph. :D I could make a zombie self portrait. And I think its a bit too much white. You could give the cards a older yellowish, used.card look. :)
December 12th, 2009, 06:07 PM
Ace holes it is then !
Hmmm, Is the logo too white ? I dunno. At the moment standing alone it might be, but it depends what we plan on doing with this logo. If we add it to the bottom of our illustrations for instance, then the white background will be dropped and the white cards will pop-out rather nicely I'ld imagine. We'll see.
Tom : Cool start. Ya I've never really been into the zombie stuff so I don't believe I've drawn any before. But, since I couldn't come up with anything decent for what I planned on drawing today, a zombie-selfportrait was a welcome distraction for me ;)
I thought the first version looked to much like one of those nazi-zombies from that movie that came out not to long ago (dunno what the name is), so I ended up adding a racoon tail to the helmet as a quick-fix to make it clearer it's suppoed to be a zombie-biker type thing hehe
*Yes I hogged the ace of spades... hahaha But I don't mind if anyone else wants it that bad I'll redraw what ever suit onto the helmet instead, no hassles.*
Feel free to add some blood drops or whatever to tie it in with the other headshots if you plan on using my quicky.
December 12th, 2009, 08:05 PM
Pretty amazing Nic. Here's the result.
t i m
December 12th, 2009, 10:13 PM
Tommoy that is AWESOME!
Oh and B-man is that you in your avatar? If so, I'm sure we could zombie him up and swap out stoph.
December 13th, 2009, 08:03 AM
Its me in the avatar but I made a different one. :)
Good work guys!
December 13th, 2009, 08:13 AM
Looking dead, I mean looking good B-man!
What's that about shutting down CA, I red something in the Chow topic Dragon's egg?
December 13th, 2009, 10:40 AM
Cool B-man, I was hopeing to see some viking HORNS on yours though ! hahaha
Tommow : am I right in thinking you had us each shot in the head so that there would actually be "ace holes", bullet-holes that is, in the helmets ? ;) And the cards do look better with the dirty-look I say, Björn was spot on.
Ya for the CA off-air business. I don't know what to think ? Here's the thread :
If they need to raise 150K I'm thinkin' this is to bring in the new CA version 4 they were talkin' about earlier, something new because that's just a lot of dough just to keep a forum running for 90 days. I would suck to lose the community though, with the ChoWs for instance...
December 13th, 2009, 01:45 PM
I just want to say good luck to you guys this year...
That's a Bad Ass logo by the way
t i m
December 14th, 2009, 12:48 AM
What's up dudes!
Logo really came along nicely, real team effort!
B-man that is a great zombie zombie head man!!
As for the ca blackout stuff, yea I was reading the thread last night..troublesome news no doubt, but I'm sure we'll pull through. CA 4.0 is gonna kick ass. I picked up a few of those downloads, I was pretty impressed. Lotta knowledge jammed in there, good deal for the price, imo.
Loving the progress guys, looking forward to hearing what the topic is going to be!
Added a new zombie self portrait to the logo, wanted to be more in the spirit of your guys stuff. :)
December 14th, 2009, 08:04 AM
Couldn't stay behind so I've made a fresh one too. Well, logo's done, what next. Do we wait till the topic is clear?.
December 14th, 2009, 12:17 PM
Cool ! Alright, so we all created something new for this, great start.
I wonder if we could do anything in anticipation now... Kinda hard without a theme, but. Any ideas ? We can't even work on a background or palette or, even boarders or anything like that can we.
Hmmm. Any ideas on how to split the work ? Discuss a pre-emptive schedule maybe ? I dunno.
December 14th, 2009, 12:54 PM
great work. Killer portraits there. :D
Ok, so We cant really work on anything that will be in our finished work for team-chow.
We could try and do random characters together to work on our teamwork. kinda like we worked on this logo. And we could find a common estetic. Im crap with cartoony look btw
December 14th, 2009, 01:11 PM
Ya I reckon tryin' to build some common aesthetics would be a good call. Get that out of the way right now as we have nothin' specific to do really, so our finished pieces look all nice together hehe Uhm, everyone else onboard for this ? Any thoughts on how to get get the ball rollin' ?
December 14th, 2009, 05:42 PM
To warm up we could do CHoW 184 The Surveyor as a team!
We can each give our own interpretation, perhaps some rough sketches alongside. From there try to make one drawing on witch we all work. In this process we can see how we can communicate best, this sketchbook could be enough but maybe we need more, perhaps Skype or Google talk. I heard some people about open canvas, it would be fun but I think it's no option for a Mac user.
B-man, don't worry, cartoons are for business.
December 14th, 2009, 07:12 PM
Alright I'm in. I wasn't gettin' any ideas from the brief so I thought I'ld stay this one out, but might as well use a given subject to test things out :)
Hmmm, first glance I thought ok : the Surveyor... I see her sorta slow and under-waterish, kinda like an angle I guess but a little creepy. Like have her hair or clothes float around real-slow like, always in slow motion, like they were caught underwater. And have her guts and heart and brains flash out of her skin a little, not cadaver-like but more like an x-ray I guess. Like she radiating from inside.
I know I know... Hey look, I said the ideas weren't exactly bubbling for me on this one ;) Did a real quick sketch, well.. Not even a sketch really, just an initial composition to help get the idea across a little, a vague form floating over head, as she slowly comes down to earth, askin' her questions without uttering a word.
So what do we develop our sketches each on our own ? Start on our own and once we get a good direction work off the same pose ? Off the same file ? Take turns at the same file ? My co-pilot bailed out on me in the last Team ChoW so I haven't really experienced the right way of goin' about this team business (I don't blame him or anything. Good artist this guy, it's just it didn't work out in the end).
December 15th, 2009, 05:32 AM
Rambozo, I like the idea of a see-thru body. Or more shining from the inside to give her the alien touch. But we also have to consider she talks to people about for instance soup ingredients so she can't be too scary or ghostly I guess. Should she ware clothes? Also when talking to people she has to be on the same level, or not?
December 15th, 2009, 12:55 PM
Tom, ya like I said I didn't get much inspiration on this one so I wouldn't mind scrapping the idea completely. I was more hoping to put something out there in order to start her up you know ? Get some ideas out there so we can come up with a cool approach/story to the character. We can keep the see-through body if you like it, could be a cool starting block, but I think there should be more to her though ;).
For the clothes, well, nekkid chicks are nice to draw hehehe But clothes usually tell a story of their own so that's a safer bet as far as conceptual stuff goes I reckon. Which doesn't mean she can't be PARTIALLY nekkid haha
As for the "talking" well, the brief never actually mentions her talking does it, only asking questions right ? So I reckon she could have some sort of a vulcan mind meld thing goin' on there, or ESP, or a thought-analysing ray-gun for that matter, something weird and different. If she's teleporting all over the globe at will, who says she ("they" ?) haven't evolved beyond mere vocal communication ?
December 15th, 2009, 01:37 PM
Well, she takes 'interviews', and people have asked her why she is here, and she simply says "for the survey" so it looks like a conversation kind of thing to me. Of course this could be done without moving lips from the surveyor, that she is mind talking;). With the see trough body I mean shining from the inside as if she is shapeshifting into a body of a woman, but not being scary. Partly with clothes, maybe these clothes are part of her body. We could catch her in the second before arrival at a new spot.
t i m
December 15th, 2009, 02:28 PM
First, love the new self portrait tommoy, and the avatars guys ;)
The Surveyer activity sounds cool. I really like Nic's idea of a translucent skin, however should she have a skeleton? She is an alien with the ability to transcend galaxies. No need for bones to hold up flesh and muscle when you don't have to worry about the laws of gravity ;). We could have her be a mass of light and matter and gas. Remeber she is a vessel that is representing multiple galaxies. What if inside the black gas these lights are an image of the galaxies and stars that she come from? Similiar to how we slap our flag on our own space shuttles.
Then using Tommoy's idea when she talks to people she can arrange the lights and gasses on her face to appear as a 30 year old woman. Obvious idea being she wants to make the people "she's" interviewing more comfortable, but still remaining very alien.
Some sketches coming soon..
December 15th, 2009, 02:56 PM
Alright, I guess just jamming some thumbs would be awesome. just like you posted Rambozo. I always like to do lots of em and decide witch looks most intresting then work on that. Need to get the really obvious ides out aswell. Im sick at the moment but I did these 2 thumbs just now. I like to see the Surveyor as someone with the world in their hands looking at it. I find nr 2 of my thumbs most intresting.
t i m
December 15th, 2009, 04:10 PM
Hour or so, just an idea.. :)
B-man, feel better bro! Like the thumbs, pose wise second one is better for sure.
edit: A bit further. We'll probably not go with this one seeing as she's a bit too "alien". Hopefully it gets the gears churning for you guys though :)
December 15th, 2009, 07:03 PM
I'm still in the "thinking" phase I guess, haven't actually gotten that much into questioning the visuals of anything yet :( Guess that would account for a lot of verbals on my part for this post heheh Still, at here's some small input !
Tom : no no she obviously communicates with people you're right :) I just meant she doesn't necessarily have to do it verbally, like maybe it can be only with their minds or some sort of babble-fish like in the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy hehe. Or again something like the Vulcans where when she touches your forehead for instance then she and the human can communicate with each other. Or hey maybe she CAN talk in the end, just tryin' to see things slightly out of the ordinary ;).
I agree with your inner-shinning : just some reminder that maybe she really isn't human (or at least not a human at our state of evolution). I didn't particularly like the skeletal (creepier) aspect of my sketch so ya I think you're right. And having the clothes materialising around her, like they're a part of some projection, that's cool as well. That would work with the inner "glow" too, because her face would also be a projection most likely : something for our benefit, to make the interviewees feel safe.
Tim : ya I figured it was time I changed my avatar so I reckoned hey this is a good time to move ahead with that ! I agree with you and Tom about the skeleton. The brief doesn't say she's an alien though, nor an angel. But that she "seems to represent a multi-dimensional population"... That could mean, well, just about anything, specially when you factor in the "seems to" as that would infer interpretation on the part of humans I guess. But regardless, I do agree that the bones probably wouldn't make for a good visual. Maybe something more ghostly, ethereal would be more appropriate.
I mentioned this just above but for my money you're definitely right about this character putting on some facade of a 30 year old woman to make "us" more comfortable. So I think in that optic she should look all lovey-dovey to a certain extent (maybe childish ? or motherly ?) but somehow have some visual reminder telling us : hey look, somethin's awry here, she ain't quite "right" you know ? But nothing blatant like.
Also, your galaxy idea got me thinkin' on a basic scenario (to be developed/altered/trashed) : This surveyor is the last human being alive, from far far into the future. And she has a glowy bit inside of her head or torso or whatever, which is the last shard left of earth, our planet having been destroyed by, I dunno say some sort of human physics experiment gone-wrong in which the earth implodes and compacts into this golf-ball sized chunk of energy-matter energeon anit-matter dilythium something something...
Now this advanced (almost alien) human comes back to the past, and she records all the information available to her either a) as a way to figure out how to stop the earth from being destroyed in her time, either b) as an a final testament to a race that will eventually die out with her, a sort of posthumous encyclopaedia of humanity to be stored in that earth-shard she carries. A little like the golden plate we sent up with voyager : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record
(Björn, this would also tie in with your "holding the world in her hands" idea, the remains of earth being lodged in between her lungs or something)
Björn : I'm gona try and get a few loose sketches done as well. Get a few bad ideas out of the way, maybe stumble on something cool by accident ;) Hope you're not too sick dude!
Bahhh, too much babbling, not enough drawing ! I'll make sure and have some shots to post next time I decide to start writing a novel... haha
December 16th, 2009, 06:50 AM
Björn, get well soon mate.
Tim, I like your sketch but she looks a bit too evil I think. The galaxy surrounding her looks great, is it possible to let her glow more from inside her body.
Nic, I've red your novel;), good idea of her being the last human.
I've put up a moodboard because I can't get the picture clear, maybe this helps.
On my own sketch, I think its too much angel/god like.
December 16th, 2009, 08:56 PM
Tommoy : definitely getting more of that ghostly feeling from that pic. I agree it might seem a little too godlike though, But the mood from the pic got me going. From there I thought I'ld try out an idea see where it got me. Keep the "galaxy ghost" aspect of her, transparent with the floating "stars" around her as with Tim's. Except I figured I'ld add something in the background, something more "techno" to design. Not sure it's a good idea but I thought I'ld draw up something loose to help make up my mind.
Alright, basically the surveyor's physical body is trapped in some sort of time capsule, spaceship, something like that, and she projects the ghost out from her mind, or with the help of some fancy transmographier or something. So the ghost is a PART of the surveyor, it IS the surveyor in essence only not in physical shape I suppose.
Glad you liked the last-human pitch ;) Everyone else on board with this ? We honestly don't NEED a story I suppose, I just find it helps me get to thinkin' of the "why" behind things if we do.
Anyway, so this sketch is the moment where the projection begins to form, out from the laying body of the physical surveyor, maybe have energy particles or "stars" coming out from her or swirling in to her core, maybe materialising a part of the ghost ?
I'll have another sketch/idea soon. Should we establish a cut-off date ? Like from this day forward we concentrate on refining the render/detailing of the pic ?
t i m
December 17th, 2009, 12:34 AM
Nic I really like that idea! I took your sketch and kinda expounded on it. I apologize for the sloppiness, but I think it gets the point across. We need to incorporate the interviewing aspect but at the same time get our own point across of host/ghost. I tackled this by doing kind of a comic montage type thing. Now I'm terrible at these sort of things so if any of you are good at layouts, split scene composition, speak up! :) So anyway I thought we could show her "body" appearing in front of someone beginning her interview. The person in the foreground is clearly shocked, "wtf. naked ghost chick". We could have the ghost like Tommoy's sketch very ethereal flowing hair etc. Finally a scene back in her mothership/homeworld whatever where she's connected to a bunch of techno stuff. Ok, so it's a bit Avatar-esque but whatever I like it. Feel free to expand on my sketch, rearrange stuff, or do your own based on where we are headed...it's all good!
Oh, and I know we aren't going this way, but I thought some more could have been done with my original surveyor piece. I pushed it a bit further wasn't digging the "scary face". Invested some time up there. Just wanted to share the finished result with ya'll.. :)
December 18th, 2009, 01:09 PM
Hey Guys, a bit late but here's a sketch. I liked Nic's way of approaching it so I've tried something similar. The last human alive could easily be an alien too, or of course just a beautiful woman (two nude chicks=win:))
Tim, your nicely done sketch explains the whole story but I think it's gonna be tough too get all of this in a solid design.
I don't know if you guys have time this weekend to work on it some more, maybe we could get a more definite design on sunday.
t i m
December 18th, 2009, 03:24 PM
Tommoy you nailed it! Also looking at it now, you are definitely right, my idea wouldn't work it's way too busy. So you and Nic are the right track with your designs, keep going!
December 18th, 2009, 03:57 PM
**Aww man, I've just got news today that this expo I had lined-up in some museum in Italy bailed on me... Pretty bummed out now, been planning on that for months now...**
Tim : I would love to do a comic version :) I'm into comics quite a bit myself, but I don't think ChoW would be the best place to do this ? I don't believe there are any rules against this so I wouldn't put my hand in the fire over it, but the fact that they have the PoWs (Panel of the Week) tends to point in that direction in my opinion.
Also, the masked version of your "cloudy-surveyor" looks much better, less demonic this way. It's still a little creepy though hehe Then again I figure a tare in space-time WOULD be scary wouldn't it ;)
It's nice to see we seem to be agreeing on things, hopefully this is a good omen for the Team ChoW to come!
Tommoy : I didn't have much of a direction with the "room" when I was sketching mine out, but I like this kind of Egyptian design you've got going, kinda like a sarcophagus : great call, I like it. The pyramid might be a little to "Stargate" for me, but the Egyptian vibe is definitely a good idea I think :). And ya I too would like for the physical surveyor to be a little alien-like (still very human though, it's just centuries/millennia of evolution are bound to have some sort of an impact) or at least much older than the 30 year-old projection : I think that visual helps to explain what is going on.
B-man! I hope you're doin' better with your health dude. Remember, drink plenty of fluides ;)
On my part looks like I'm going to a show out of town on Saturday, so I won't be able to get much work done before Sunday evening (drivin' back Sunday I reckon). I'll try and get something done and post it here before I leave on Saturday, that way I'll have put in an extra contribution before I disappear for a while hehe The deadline ins Monday at 5:00 so if anything I can spend Monday afternoon adding final details and such.
Hmm, which brings the question : can we ENTER in ChoW as a team ? I don't think so, but it would be fun to at least post a final result in the forum, even if we don't make it to poll.
December 18th, 2009, 04:59 PM
Tim, don't know if we nailed it yet, but time is running out on us so we have to take the next step.
If you guys have time for it we could devide the drawing into three parts, one does the hardware and room, one the alien/human and one does the surveyor projection.
For example, Tim does the projection (something like your galaxy girl, but with a more defined body), Nic, you do the human/alien and I will take care of the environment and the chair. On monday one or each of us can pick up the elements and make it into one piece. Of course this could go totally wrong but were just testing ourselves at this moment. Let me know if this is okay.
Of course Björn, if jou are feeling better jump in.
Nic, we don't necessarily have to post it but if any of you would like to it's fine by me.
t i m
December 18th, 2009, 05:58 PM
Sounds good Tommoy, I'll post some WIP's soon of the projection. Don't know if Nic will be able to get his done, being out of town and all. B-man hope you're feeling better bro!
December 18th, 2009, 06:33 PM
Hmmmm, I'm not sure this is gona work. We would need a set camera angle, background and assigned character positions in relation to each other for us to be able to work on this separately (and then make sure all the lighting sources work together once we've pieced this collage). Very hard to tie elements in from 3 separate sources I'ld imagine (it's not like we're simply standing 2 characters up next to each other here with a misc. background hehe).
We should have a "skeleton" sketch, with all of the elements in place if we're gona work this way, and I think even this will require a little reworking "magic" to piece things together properly in the end.
Alright I'm game, I'm willing to give it a shot, at least explore the process. I'll try and get some "skeleton" done by tomorrow before I leave so we can at least have a common view-angle going, and maybe limit out some zones of intervention. If anyone else would like to do the same it's all good, or simply tweak this part of the perspective or move this "character" a little more to the left etc. So that we can arrive at a consensus by mid-Sunday and give us one last day to tune detailing.
December 18th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Nic, you're absolutely right about camera angle, light source and maybe color pallet. Of course we can tweak a lot but if it all doesn't fit it would be a waist. I'll wait for your skeleton sketch. By the way, if one of would rather do the environment its fine by me:)
t i m
December 18th, 2009, 10:06 PM
Both you guys bring up really good points. It certainly will be tough to meld all these styles/colors/perspectives together. But so what, :) It should be fun to try and the result should be interesting! That being said, here's the projection pose I have been working on gives you guys an idea of the direction i'm going in. I'm just fleshing out the values as of now, working on relationships etc. But I imagine she'll be coming out of a cloud of something maybe be transparent, blue'is in color? Not sure yet, I'll post more as it comes.
December 19th, 2009, 12:43 AM
Alright, wanted to get this out there. Plus I think it's better if I don't put to much info on it. Well, ok what I thought was necessary : basic "points de fuites" they call 'em in French, the "perspective reference horizons" maybe in English ? A general idea of where the characters are, and 3 different light sources (the most intense being the general room light, then the helmet/techno light and third the "ghost" light).
I'm thinkin' about plugging the physical surveyor right into the sarcophogus-bed, have a techno/breathing/brainscan helmet encase her in it, maybe with some tubes or sensors coming across her chest etc. Nothing apocalyptic though, something a little more sleek is what I have in mind.
That being said, I reckon that means I should probably do the bed along with the surveyor then ? I don't know if you had originally included it into the "background" Tom ?
Oh yes, I took Tim's latest "ghost" and simply twisted it slightly with "distortion" in Photoshop to have her fit the perspective better. Wanted to have more of a plunging view, bring the edge of the bed in closer to the viewer : give me more of a chance to illustrate the laying-body.
Again, if you feel we should change the perspective that's fine by me, what's important is that we all agree on a "view" before we start on our separate ways. I think a horizontal frame might be better on this one (?), be able to tighten in more on the characters maybe. But in any case this would be up to you Tom seein' as how you're Background man hehe
t i m
December 19th, 2009, 01:02 AM
Nic, I didn't invest a lot of time into that pose. I can scrap it, no problem man. I have it easy, I can always adjust the body, you're working around a stationary object much harder imo. You keep fleshing out the sarcophagus w/ the old being. Tommoy can take the file add the tech and background along the same perspective, and I will finish with the ghost.
Oh and B-man will be working on a bowl of chicken noodle soup. :P
December 19th, 2009, 02:03 AM
Ahhhhh I had meant to try this myself earlier but forgot to do it. Tom : thought I'ld give my harddrive a quick pilfer-through and see if I could come up with something interesting as a reference sheet like you did earlier. So here is mine, some of them are a little boring I suppose (I studied architecture so a lot of my images are of door handles and light fixtures and such haha).
Tim, no sweat man :) I reckoned since you'd pushed the painting forward I might as well place it into the piece hehe. I most likely won't be able to work on this tomorrow (only Sunday), so I figured it would be good to have some sort of framework to allow you guys to keep moving forward and not be dragged down by my lack of availability.
And a bowl of soup you say ? ;) haha
December 19th, 2009, 03:55 AM
Alright, goin' to bed so I'm posting what I sketched this evenning.
Screwin' around with the bed. Not happy with some of it, I like some of the rest. Anyway, here it is !
I'll get back to the thread come Sunday.
December 19th, 2009, 06:21 AM
First of all great work from both of you. I like where were heading with this. I've made a sketch of the situation, if we stick at this it could actually work. A pity I can't do the chair but I understand you want to integrate the alien/human in it so its ok Nic;). Lets keep the transformation effects and light effect open till we have the other elements in place. Background will be mostly bleu (Pantone 7453 to 7456) gray metal.
O, and I have some orange soup in the frige if anybody's interested.
December 19th, 2009, 09:27 AM
Something like this I had in mind.
December 19th, 2009, 01:52 PM
Tommoy : excellent ! You'ld rather a Greenish light for the "headpiece" than a redish one ? I'm fine with that, I'll change it up. Alright, I'll keep the lighting effects to a minimum so we can coordinate that once all the pieces are in place, make sure it all works well together.
Cool, I'll get back to you guys with something ne.
December 19th, 2009, 10:15 PM
Hey guys. So the show... Didn't go in the end :(...
Anyway, given me time to work on another piece and tweak this "bed" a bit. Continued adding to the "helmet" 'cause I realised you figured it was probably attached to the bed as opposed to on the end of some articulated arm like I figured. Not too many details though, I'll leave that up to you Tom ;).
I'll work on the actual character once this bed is done, but wanted to post so that you can have some sort of contour to work with as soon as possible in case you guys were on this too. Still got a way to go, so I'll work on it some more.
December 20th, 2009, 10:28 AM
Nic, the light from the helmet doesn't have to be green, do it whatever you think's best.
And why didn't you go to that show, are you snowed in, in the Netherlands we are.
I like the bed and helmet a lot, I was thinking its made out of one piece and kind of floating but if they are separate and the helmet is attached to the sealing its fine by me. There are some minor issues on the perspective but nothing big, so drop in a gorgeous last human/alien and you're done.
Tim, how is your projection coming along?
Björn, if it's possible you do some work on the piece, let us know.
December 20th, 2009, 01:16 PM
Here's what I've got sofar.
t i m
December 20th, 2009, 10:07 PM
Nic - Sorry to hear about the show.
Nice work so far you two, gonna spend some time on this tonight. I'll have her done by tomorrow morning.
December 21st, 2009, 05:03 PM
Tom : For the show well, my girlfriend was feeling ill and it was a 2h30 drive there, and the other person who was supposed to come bailed, etc. So it just fell apart unfortunately. Ya I head about the snow you guys had : my cousin was making snowmen with his kids and all that haha But here we're not "snowed in" as the streets have been opened.
I got dragged into Christmas shopping yesterday with the mrs. ... And book stores close at 11:00 don't you know so my day got wasted at that and today I had to drive her to gpass her driver's written exam... Which means I totalled another what 4 hours there ? Point being : I didn't get to work on the alienish-chick !!!
Got a little under an hour left to pull before deadline, I'll patch it all up kick-like though if you guys have had time to work on your sections. What's the verdict boys ?
December 21st, 2009, 07:10 PM
Well, this is what I've made up for now. Don't know what to think of it really. I hope any of you guys did something better:) But the important thing is its a good warming up for the real Team CHoW challenge coming up.
t i m
December 22nd, 2009, 01:00 AM
Damn fine work there Tommoy! I think we did a pretty good job of getting our point across, unique experience working on the same image, but it certainly a great exercise in communication. I'm really excited to hear the topic and start the brainstorming!
December 25th, 2009, 06:17 AM
Marry X-mas guys!
Im better and I'll be posting new artwork anyday. :D Sorry for not beeing around much lately.
You guys are doing a good job on this chow. :) I cant wait for the topic either. :)
December 25th, 2009, 10:54 AM
Björn! Glad to read that you're better :) Too bad you didn't get to stretch your legs with us on this Surveyor ChoW. Like Tim says : it was something different to all be working on the same pic.
Merry Christmas boys. I'm drivin' way up North to no-man's-land today to spend soma the holidays with my girlfriend's family. I'll be back on the 29th so that'll be in time to start this new theme hehe I'll probably be able to get some stuff done up there if need be, check my mail at least.
t i m
December 25th, 2009, 05:14 PM
B-man glad to hear you're back man, looking forward to seeing that art, and the topic can't come soon enough :)
Wish you guys the best for the holiday, be safe, and enjoy the good food and drink!
December 25th, 2009, 06:54 PM
Merry Christmas Y'all.
Glad to hear you're better Björn, we are counting on you for the team event.
Next week we finally get the info, I'm pretty exited on what its gonna be.
Here's the christmas card I've send to my customers in Holland, it says something like 'Santa keeps surprising us'.
December 26th, 2009, 02:30 PM
Topic is announced, this is going to be fun.
1. Your team will choose TWO CARDS per person to illustrate. So, a 2 person team needs 4, a 4 person team 8, etc. This is the minimum requirement, you may choose more.
2. You may only take major arcana for half your cards, please choose Lesser Arcana (The Suits) for at least half. Bonus points for those who do mostly Lesser Arcana!
3. I will allow 4 teams per card. First come, first serve. If we get all the cards covered by at least four teams each, I will then be open to letting you pick cards that are already full. We want to make sure to get a full deck!
4. Please make sure that your files can be sized down to 9 cm by 15.5 cm (or 3.543 x 6.1 inches) at 300 dpi. I'm exploring the option of seeing if we can get it printed, so please make sure your work is print-quality, or please write "OPT OUT OF PRINT" when you submit your work so I know you're not interested in having your cards printed as part of your deck.
5. PLEASE DO NOT START DRAWING UNTIL JANUARY FIRST! Right now is the time to get everyone's cards assigned and start brainstorming, but please don't start drawing as it's unfair for the other teams.
6. That's it, Have Fun!
If we want some of the cards in particular we have to be quick. Here's the list:
NOTE! White means that some of the 4 slots have been filled, Red means all of the slots have been filled.
0 The Fool - Bight Young Mutations
I The Magician -
II The High Priestess - PIRATE SHIP LOLLIPOP!
III The Empress -
IV The Emperor -
V The Hierophant -
VI The Lovers - PIRATE SHIP LOLLIPOP!
VII The Chariot -
VIII Strength -
IX The Hermit -
X Wheel of Fortune -
XI Justice -
XII The Hanged Man - Thundercats
XIII Death - Thundercats, Exquisite Corpse
XIV Temperance -
XV The Devil
XVI The Tower - Milk of Amnesia
XVII The Star - Thundercats
XVIII The Moon - Messzi Scruffz
XIX The Sun - Messzi Scruffz
XX Judgment -
XXI The World -
Ace of Wands -
Two of Wands -
Three of Wands -
Four of Wands -
Five of Wands -
Six of Wands -
Seven of Wands -
Eight of Wands -
Nine of Wands -
Ten of Wands -
Princess of Wands -
Knight of Wands - Thundercats
Queen of Wands -
King of Wands - Milk of Amnesia
Ace of Swords -
Two of Swords -
Three of Swords -
Four of Swords -
Five of Swords -
Six of Swords -
Seven of Swords -
Eight of Swords -
Nine of Swords -
Ten of Swords -
Princess of Swords -
Knight of Swords - Bight Young Mutations
Queen of Swords - Messzi Scruffz, Thundercats
King of Swords - Messzi Scruffz
Ace of Cups -
Two of Cups -
Three of Cups -
Four of Cups -
Five of Cups -
Six of Cups -
Seven of Cups -
Eight of Cups -
Nine of Cups -
Ten of Cups -
Princess of Cups -
Knight of Cups -
Queen of Cups -
King of Cups -
Ace of Pentacles -
Two of Pentacles -
Three of Pentacles -
Four of Pentacles -
Five of Pentacles -
Six of Pentacles -
Seven of Pentacles -
Eight of Pentacles -
Nine of Pentacles -
Ten of Pentacles -
Princess of Pentacles - Exquisite Corpse
Knight of Pentacles -
Queen of Pentacles -
King of Pentacles -
December 26th, 2009, 04:29 PM
The theme is out !!!
Ok, I wanted to post a blanket shot-gun call to get some good themes for the team, but I won't know what you guys want to draw... Here are my personnal choices :
1-Ace of Swords
I'm gona call Ace of Swords and Judgment on the forum (I don't mind switching cards with any of you guys later though, as long as our team gets some good cards :) )
***edit = I also asked for Death for the team (I don't know if it will go through as I didn't ask it for myself), because it seemed like a cool card (although maybe a bit generic) and there was only one spot left on the card (unless I missed a post on the forum and then there wouldn't be any spots left on the Death Card).
-It'll be easy to trade it with another team after I reckon if you guys don't want it- Come on: Death is the Ace of Spades !!! That's MEEE ;) hehe if no one wants it I'll take it, like I said as long as the team has a good pool of cards I'm happy.***
t i m
December 26th, 2009, 07:03 PM
Hey all, I'm going to take my helmet's sake and pick up the Ace of Cups. I'm also going to go ahead and reserve the other aces too. Better safe than sorry, if you guys don't want to do that we can always pick something else. However, what I was thinking we could do is everyone pick up the ace of what suit they are (Nic swords, Tommoy wands, B-man pentacles, Me cups) and then pick a major card to do, 4 majors and 4 minor (aces). The major cards are a bit easier seeing as they are very figurative so that's pretty self explanatory. If you read the descriptions of the Aces though they are a bit more ambiguous, in fact they aren't represented by people at all and are more about themes. Maybe we could work together to think about a way to link all the aces together either design wise or character wise I don't know, but be free to interrupt our individual suits. What do you guys think?
December 26th, 2009, 07:07 PM
Haha, if you get all the Aces your team name will really work well :) Looking forward to seeing your kickass work!
December 26th, 2009, 07:17 PM
Yup, let's go for the ace's.
Other favorites are Fool, Strength, hanged man and tower.
Nightblue, I'll be watching you cos you can kick some serious ass too.
December 26th, 2009, 11:47 PM
the topic must be an ace in the hole for you guy.
December 27th, 2009, 12:19 AM
Tim : I was hoping the team would go with an ace each so I quite agree :) I’m not sure how the cup and sword and all of those translate into “colour” cards (spades/hearts etc.) but I reckon this is quite a cool coincidence hehe
Daestwen says it’s ok to request a card-swap later on so we can always change later if need be, although I’ld say it’ld be better to make up our minds early and give us time to think about this. So I’ld go ahead and reserve one of the major cards ASAP guys ;)
Like I said I’ve already asked for Judgment and Death, so does anyone want to tackle either of these ? I might like to toy around with the Devil or the Hanged-man as well, and I also thought I might like to interpret the Tower as a character Tommoy, so I’ld be happy if you end up choosing to do one of those two last ones hehe
What do you reckon : I figure it would be cool to work collectively on all the concepts, bounce ideas, correct elements in the WIPs etc. even though we’ld each paint our final versions of our 2 cards separately. Suggestions ?
Raoul : Let's hope you're right ! It’s almost like, a case of divinaAaAation ;) ooouu spooky haha
December 27th, 2009, 03:32 AM
I’m afraid I can’t do much offa the computer I’m on for the time being. I also don’t know much about this Tarot hocus-pocus, so I figured I’ld take the time to research these cards we’ve got going so far. Figured I’ld post the info here, maybe some of this will be good for us. Of course we have to design characters, but some of the symbolism might help give us direction.
I don’t know how spot on this stuff is, like I said I’m not much of a mysticist myself so this is all new to me. Alright, so, I copied some info on these aces of ours offa the net. Here’s the low down :
The Minor Arcana :
Brings us clarity and definition. These cards are the supportive role-players to the prime archetypes of the Major Arcana. The stage, setting, and supportive actors in our readings; these cards flesh out the big story of what’s going on in our interpretive experiences.
Each suit tells a story within the elemental/psychological realm of that suit. For instance, the Minor Arcana suit of cups tell the story of its element, water which deals with the realm of emotions.
Wands : Fire, Spirit
Pentacles : Earth, Physical
Swords : Air, Thought
Cups : Water, Emotions
Aces in the Tarot deck indicate new beginnings. They are also power cards, and rank high in the trumping factor in a reading, their power weighing in evenly with Major Arcana cards.
ACE OF WANDS
Passion, Direction, Ignition, Expansion, Initiation, Creativity, Energization, Resourcefulness
The ace of wands meaning deals with high volume energies bursting forth in assertive confidence. Those who pull this card in a reading are in for an incredible adventure. This card marks the beginning of a new direction - particulary in matters of creativity.
The ace of wands also reminds us of the creative control we have in our lives. Specifically when we look at the card, we note the hand holding the out a rod symbolizing our passion. This is indicative of our ability to take hold of our desires and allow that passion to fuel us up to reach our goals.
When in a reversed or in a position of conflict, this card may be a message that you are letting your wants or desires control you and it's time to get a better handle on your emotions.
The beauty of this card stands out loud and clear. It is a beacon amongst the Tarot pantheon, ever holding its light bright for all to see the way to clarity. As such, the ace of wands meaning often deals with creative insight. Many times this card shows up after the querent has gone through a period of murky waters or a time of stagnation in which he/she seemed to be "stuck." Hence the symbolism of the flame thrust out of the thick, obscuring clouds. A promise of motion, direction, and positive energy building to a delightful result.
This card is calls loudest to artists, visionaries, entrepreneurs, and those seeking to set out on a new creative path. To them, it is the "green light" card - a sign of positive encouragement, a signal to go for gusto! in their endeavors.
Key symbols to the ace of wands meanings:
Clouds: Symbol meaning of clouds deal with ambiguity, mystery, and things hidden. Most renditions of this card depict a hand holding a flaming torch thrust out suddenly from the clouds. This is symbolic of our ideas or energy coming out of the hidden places of our psyche and into the light of day. Clouds often deal with hidden agendas that might be keeping us in a holding pattern. They may also indicate underlying beliefs that hold us back from our being our brightest selves.
Rivers: River symbol meanings deal with motion, direction, and the flow of our thoughts as well as our lives. When the river in the ace of wands flows into our psychic vision it is a message that we must consider the direction we are taking in our lives.
Mountains: Symbol meanings of mountains deal with challenges, acquisition, accomplishment and aspirations. Mountains are a symbolic allegory for us in that as we climb them, each step brings us closer to our highest point. This highest point, the top of the mountain, can be a spiritual goal, physical goal, or anything else that we aspire to reach. The mountain is unbending, and inflexible. This makes it a reminder that only we can change how we deal with challenges (because the mountain certainly isn't going to change for us). This being the case, we can embrace the lessons we gain as we take on the challenge of the mountain. We can also rest assured that the peak will always be there as we aspire ever higher to our desired results.
The ace of wands meaning is all about taking our internal creative fire in hand and holding it out far all the world to see. Now is our time to spread our warmth, passion, and vision to others. Now is our time to shine as beacons unto the world.
ACE OF PENTACLES
Key Words :
Reward, Safety, Grounded, Fresh Start, Improved Status, New Responsibility
The ace of pentacles meaning pertains to new buds of opportunities awaiting you in areas of money, health, career, material gain, and other areas of practical matters. In matters of love and relationships, the ace of pentacles meaning indicates stability, increased trust, and new/stronger bonds made in an existing relationship.
Key symbols pertaining to the ace of pentacles meaning:
Hand: We see this symbol in all the aces, and in each one the hand represent a slightly different meaning. In the case of pentacles, the hand is symbolic of generosity. It is a reminder that in order to get what we want (in this case: health, material gain) we must also give. To only receive without giving is a violation of natural law, and may be our demise.
Rose: In the Morgan-Greer rendition the rose is stands out and is an integral aspect of the ace of pentacles meaning. A long-standing symbol of purity, promise, and beauty. The rose symbol meanings deal with the promise of new beginnings and hope. We must also take the thorns into consideration - with the promise of new hope, we may have to endure a few stinging thorns (painful ordeals) along the way.
Clouds: In relation to the ace of pentacles meaning, clouds are symbolic of allowing material gain and positive health into our lives after enduring a time of uncertainty. Clouds in this card are also symbolic of gifts bestowed upon us from seemingly out of nowhere. This is a reminder that we should rejoice in not only what we have, but what is right around the corner too.
Granted, the ace of pentacles meaning is about gaining the physical means in our lives we desire, and as such it is a very promising card in our spreads. The ace of pentacles meaning reminds us that we are human, and sometimes it takes work to get what we want. This card also reminds us that we must be flexible and keep ourselves in a positive state of allowing in order to receive the material gifts available to us.
ACE OF SWORDS :
Key Words :
Focus, Force, Clarity, Vision, Insight, Intensity
The ace of swords card meaning has to do with aligning yourself. Visually, this card is clearly making a statement of solidarity. When we see the strength of that sword standing erect in the center of this card, there is no doubt in our mind that we must focus upon the issues at hand (indicated by surrounding cards) and make our stand.
Often the ace of swords Tarot card meaning deals with gaining clarity in our lives after a long bout of disillusionment. Often this card appears in matters of love when the ties need to be cut in a relationship. This is particularly the case in one-sided relationships where the partner requires more of attention than you.
This confirms the ace of swords meaning as this card signals its beaming light to you. This card cries out "this is your time, the focus is on you!" But what kind of focus?
The suite of swords in a Tarot deck deals with thoughts, and awareness. They've also been identified as symbols of challenges or conflict in our lives. The ace of swords Tarot card meaning is symbolic of uncovering a new way of thinking. Or, cutting away at some old thought to make way for a brighter perspective.
More specifically, the ace of swords is a call to stop fooling ourselves and look into the crux of the matters of our soul. The ace of swords is bright and brassy. There is no room for excuses with this card, and it demands full honesty of the querent in a reading. This means that new projects, ideas, thoughts, or relationships are on the horizon. Due to the sharp nature of this card, you had better be mindful and clear about your intentions first before starting these new ventures.
Key symbols pertaining to the ace of swords meanings:
Crown: Yes, we might initially think of royalty or nobility when considering the symbolic meaning of crowns. But consider where the crown rests, on one's head of course. Consequently, the crown in the ace of swords is a symbol of thought. Specifically, the clarity and force behind our thoughts. Use this visual image to slice through all the distracting thoughts you may have about an issue and point your mind squarely to the core of the matter. This kind of keen focus will see your way to success.
Rose: The Morgan-Greer shows a red and white rose in the ace of swords card. These roses are symbolic of choices that we make. We can either chose to see our lot in life as a work of beauty, or we can focus on the thorns and pain. The rose on this card also symbolizes the delicate process of our thought. Meaning, just as a gardener tenderly cards of a rose to assure continually beautiful blossoms, so too must we take responsibility to nurture our thoughts to insure positive outcomes.
Clouds: Cloud symbol meanings in this card indicate confusion and distraction. We notice the image of the sword victoriously rising above the cloying clouds in seek of the highest point of inspiration. This is a visual message to us that we must rise above the chatter (nay sayers, conflict, media, negativity) and aspire to our own greatest thoughts in order to make our way to mental clarity and success.
Just from these few and simple symbols we can see a pattern of understanding: When we work towards clarity of thoughts, and choose the proper thoughts for our purpose, we reach the epitome of our goals, obtaining our crowning achievements.
ACE OF CUPS
Love, Peace, Patience, Harmony, Assurance, Tranquility, Compassion, Acceptance
Visually, this card is undeniably potent. I particularly gravitate to the Thoth rendition of this card because it shows prominent emanations of energy spanning out in a web of connectivity. This card illustration reminds me of the power that love has over all things.
Yes, if you are wanting hard and fast ace of cups meanings, most certainly it is a card symbolizing love as well as a signal of new relationships beginning (aces signifying new beginnings), but it's much more than that.
This card is a sign of blessing. A blessing that assures us if we hold ourselves (our thoughts, feelings, body, etc) in a place of love there is no end to the beauty we may allow to flow into our lives.
The ace of cups is a message for us to start at the place of love. Whatever our intent, need, desire, direction may be; if we initiate your action from the starting point of love and compassion then our result will be blessed.
Key symbols to the ace of cups meanings:
Dove: The dove is a common spiritual icon with symbol meanings indicating hope, purity, aspiration, and ascension. In Greco-Roman mythology, the dove is a sacred creature to Aphrodite/Venus, and therefore is a powerful symbol of love. Featured on the ace of cups, it is a promising symbol. Note the dove (in the Rider-Waite version) is pointing down. This is a second-pass message indicating: "whatever goes up, must come down." In other words, fly high, but ground yourself first
Water: Water is a symbol of emotion and subconscious. Water also symbolizes purity, cleansing, and rebirth. It is associated with the moon too which causes its symbolism to lean towards femininity. This is in line with the core ace of cups meanings that deal with love and compassion. Although males are surely just as capable of love as women are - human history primarily hands over the softer, nurturing, compassionate concepts of love to women. There is further connection here because many First People (ancient cultures, primitive man) believe the earth was formed from a watery womb. Here we are seeing water as a symbol of love rebirth and all the other associations that go along with these.
Lotus:Traditionally, the symbolic meaning of lotus deals with ascension. When we see the lotus unfolding its petals beautifully in the midst of inky, murky soils we can liken ourselves unfolding as divine beings emerging out of unclear situations or states of consciousness. Simply put, the lotus in the ace of cups Tarot card tells us there is beauty in all things as long as we have the inner eyes to select only the beauty among us.
These are powerful symbols, and this is an incredibly potent card. In a reading this card indicates new sparks of passion are being lit up in your life. It also tells the querent to start all endeavors from a place of love, and the results will always be blessed.
We can also see this card as a sign of renewal, rebirth, or starting over.
t i m
December 27th, 2009, 05:54 AM
Nice post Nic! I appreciate the research into the cards. :)
So I'm stuck awake with so many thoughts bouncing around my brain. Sensory overload, in a good way, trying to wrap my head around the topic.
I think we are pretty much in agreement that we are all doing the aces for our minor arcana. So thinking about what the ace represents. The Trump card, a card which overpowers all the other minor arcana. In terms of characters, if the king, queen, page, are going to be depicted by human figures, it would seem that the Ace would have to have divine qualities. A figure that is above human status. A god, if you will. Remember Daestwan wants us to stick pretty close to the Rider-Waite interpretation, so be sure to check out the image that is associated with your card in that deck, and check out the symbols/meanings etc. All I'm really saying is that if our cards were laid next to the other minor arcana (king, seven, princess, etc.) without knowing our card we have to strive to make the viewer instantly recognize the power (not necessarily strength, maybe emotional, intellectual or scale) of our character, and realize all other characters within that suit are subservient. I think that's the mindset we should go into designing our "Aces"
Oooh this is going to be fun!
December 27th, 2009, 06:13 AM
I know nothing about Tarot cards so your post helps a lot Nic:). I'm going to take the Tower, besides Death and Judgement we already have. Maybe Tim or Björn have favourites, well there's one open spot. In the end we can decide how we divide things but Nic's suggestion on one major and one minor card each sounds good to me.
We could start thinking about theme's, styles, we are going for. Like a steampunk/hollywood combo, deathmetal/lolita/robot/alien combo or something like that, so we can start looking for inspirational and reference material.
December 27th, 2009, 06:40 AM
Here's (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.paganpresence.com/Samples/ppi-riderwaite-sample0001.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.paganpresence.com/tarot001.html&usg=__2-jzKl8pJqC341Bm1myat7K2Avk=&h=880&w=800&sz=208&hl=nl&start=7&um=1&tbnid=idaitBA8fqhE9M:&tbnh=146&tbnw=133&prev=/images%3Fq%3DRider-Waite%2Bdeck%26hl%3Dnl%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3De n%26sa%3DX%26um%3D1) a nice set of different card decks.
December 27th, 2009, 02:15 PM
Tim : quite right. Maybe not a "god" in every instance though, but an "extreme" surely. Maybe a “hero” in certain cases, the epitome of a given quality type of thing. I’m not opposed to the idea of supernatural either here ;) I’m just thinking maybe if we go with something sci-fi then a “god” might not fit in as well with the theme. Then again that might be our angle: “divine sci-fi”. That might be fun.
But regardless: I agree with Tim on the super-human quality of our cards. This should be fun actually :)
Tom : Glad to see you chose Tower. Like I said, I was thinking it would be fun to transform that into a character, see how that works out so it’ll be good to have this card in the team.
As far as Death and Judgment go, again I don’t mind doing either, and Daestwen says we can change our minds about our chosen cards as long as the slot is still available. So if no one here wants to do “Death” for instance, then we can swap it to some other team I’m sure : it’s the one that filled out the first.
And yes, I think this is the time we should use to give direction to our cards, that is to say chose a general theme, a universe for them. I’ld have liked to take the time we have before the drawing phase starts to put together some reference sheets like Tom did for the “surveyor” ChoW, but I just can’t do that until I get home in a few days so… I can only suggest things until then.
Tom, I was wondering what you meant by steampunk/hollywood ? I’m not a big fan of steampunk myself, but I’m flexible ;) Now I’m not quite sure what you have in mind with Deathmetal/Lolita/Robot/Alien either there Tom, but that sounds more down my alley hahah
I’ll try and put up some sort of inspirational references when I get home so we can all agree on a general feel for our cards (textures/brush technique/colours, creatures, armour ? hell I don’t know, anything that screams out “vibe” to me). Visuals should help us find a direction I think. Hmmm, alright I’ll come back with some ideas later !
December 27th, 2009, 03:51 PM
Nic, I was just throwing in some random words that popped up. Nothing serious yet.
But it's important we choose our theme's wisely. All four of us have to feel comfortably with them so I suggest everyone of us give a few theme's we personally like and then lets see if there could be an interesting combination made. Here are a few theme's to start with:
Dinosaur age/Dragon world
Pin ups with a twist
Post war/brutally injured/apocalypse
Results of Frankenstein/biological experiments
WW II/French revolution
New star wars characters
Every char has a way of flying/floating/hoovering
The gates of hell open, our chars come out.
December 28th, 2009, 09:09 AM
I like the idea! :) Other then that I kinda like "The Chariot"
t i m
December 28th, 2009, 01:27 PM
Hey there B-man, I snagged the chariot for you. So we have our 4 major arcana cards:
The Tower, Judgment, Death, The Chariot.
So lets divvy those up, Tommoy, likes the Tower, B-man the Chariot, Nic can pick which one he likes, Death or Judgment, I'll take whichever, I'm not picky ;).
Of course we all have our minor cards set too.
Tommoy - Ace of Wands
Nic - Ace of Swords
B-man - Ace of Pentacles
Tim - Ace of Cups
So we have that set, Tommoy has some really good ideas for themes. I think the key to picking a good theme is not to pigeon hole our characters by getting too specific, making it difficult to design the symbols/meaning for our character to represent.
Vikings (semi-fantasy driven ie furs, swords, which cater to this challenge, but with a nordic twist)
Anything Sci-Fi (Shit you can't go wrong with sci-fi. Our characters in mech suits? Exosquad anyone?)
Superhero's/Villians (This may be cool, and easy in terms of the costumes conveying the necessary symbolism for each of our characters.)
Underwater (It'd be tough to convey our necessary themes when everything takes place underwater, but it would give our cards a really cool and coherent visual aesthetic.)
These are just a couple of ideas, let's keep the ball rolling and toss out a few more. Maybe talk about pros and cons?
December 28th, 2009, 02:33 PM
Tim, I'm comfortable with the Tower and the Ace of Wands.
I like underwater myself but on a second glance it would give us some hard nuts to crack when fire, lightning, cups of water! and prob some other things are involved. Of course nothing a little brainstorming couldn't fix, but with for instance Vikings we would have a solid bottom to start of from. It could be something like Vikings in a icy Dragons world.
Sci-Fi is always fun, with superheroes we could get too pinned down.
December 28th, 2009, 10:29 PM
Just got home after an 8hour+ drive today, didn't sleep much the whole time I was up in snow-land neither so I'm burnt ! Good to be home hehe
I think Tim might be right in saying we should give ourselves a certain leeway to begin with although I think it might be interesting to mix in other elements into our theme later as we develop the "story".
I would like to submit a few ideas of my own here but the last couple of days have been utterly draining so I haven't yet be able to put much thought into this :( That being said, I wanted to at least touch-base tonight and voice my interest in the ideas you'ld already put forward, see where our interests might converge.
So : as you've pointed out Tom, I don't think going with an "environmental" theme such as underwater or space etc. would be very helpful given the importance of the elements in the Tarot visuals (fire, water, air, clouds, lightning, etc.) I rather like some of the other themes mentioned here though : Vikings is always one that talks to me so I'm cool with that. Science fiction is also a great favourite of mine so I'm cool with THAT as well. I wasn't particularly thinking of "mech" but I'm definitely ok with it if we go down that specific rout (I've never heard of Exosquad???) Maybe we could combine certain sci-fi elements into the Viking universe to help create an aesthetic diverging a little from a generic Norse look?... A "Nordic twist" Tim mentioned, that sounds right down my alley hehe Gives us direction without confining us to much.
I'm a bit of a History buff, and the World Wars are of particular interest so Tom's suggestion of a WWII oriented theme suits me as well. I somehow feel that it might be harder to design new costumes in this era and keep in line with the spirit of ChoW though, but I'm comfortable with this theme, if for no other reason than the opportunity to draw some of them guns ;)
Not so hot on the superhero idea though. For one I've never really gotten onboard with the superhero thing. I mean, I like Lobo or even Hellboy sometimes, maybe even Ghost Rider (hey, I like skulls ;) ) etc., but I guess guys wearing tights just isn't generally my thing. Even though I really dig comic books, it's just not the super-hero vibe that gets to me. I'm also not convinced this would translate particularly well into Tarot Cards visuals ? Maybe comic books à la Sin City or Heavy Metal would work quite well though, visuals like some of the Humanoids Associés comics with Juan Gimenez's work or Dark Horse's Hardboiled or some gritty stuff like that of George Pratt, Ashley Wood (Popbot, Zombies vs Amazons vs Robots etc.), Kent Williams (Blood) for instance.
Star Wars (the ORIGINAL Star Wars - are there any others ?) were probably the biggest influence on me growin' up, but I don't feel that would be a wise avenue to chose for designing Tarot Cards.
Tim : I was rather set on drawing Judgment "the firey angel" at first, but then I read up a little more on the Tarot Cards and "Death in Black Armour" with the white rose seems pretty damn sweet as well so. I really don't know. Do you fancy one in particular ?
December 29th, 2009, 07:31 AM
I kinda like the viking ide, makes it easy to add alot of drama in the peice. I could go WWII as sugested by Tom and it would work fine for me. I would like to se that we didn't go sci-fi or superhero thogh. :) Its just something that rubs me the wrong way with those topics. :)
I know what I want to do with the ace of pentacles. and the chariot is a cool topic.
I think ones we start doing wips we all will kinda fall into sync and find a common look. :)
Edit: There is actually a Nordic Tarot deck called "Vikings Tarot" :D
t i m
December 29th, 2009, 01:27 PM
Now we're getting somewhere!
Nic if you don't mind I'll take Death, it would actually lend itself pretty well as a good juxtapose to my idea for the Ace of Cups.
So it sounds like after reading everyones responses the Viking and WWII ideas are what we like the best? I agree with you guys that these two are the most interesting. My idea is pretty solid and it actually could be applied to either theme and workout well.
I like the Vikings/Norse theme a little better. If you guys wanted to incorporate more "fantasy" elements ie dragons, beasts, etc that would be cool too!
If we went the WWII route it could work too, just more as a backdrop and less involved in the actual development of the character. I see Nic's point in regards to the wardrobe, it would make things challenging. However it is different, could be fun.
So yea, my 2 cents. :)
December 29th, 2009, 01:57 PM
Björn, I'm not surprised there is a Viking version already. So I think we have to try to go a little bit beyond that.
One advantage of the Vikings it has a lot of mythical/mystical elements that could be used in the tarot cards. The disadvantage could be the limited choice in clothing we can use. If we combine the Vikings with some other theme it could broaden the horizon.
To be honest the combo Vikings/WWII doesn't immediately give me images on the retina. Vikings combined with some SF elements could work but I'm not very sure about that either. Maybe Viking/Lord of the ring or is that to much of the same category?
I've bought a Tarot deck today and I wonder if it could be helpful to lay down some cards to see how our team is doing the coming weeks :) or I could do it for other teams hehehe ;)
December 29th, 2009, 02:11 PM
Tim, I saw your post just after posting mine.
I agree with taking the Vikings as the basis. Personally I would like to add the Fantasy Dragon world to give it a boost. I agree its a little safer then with WWII what would be a bigger challenge. Of course we could use all three theme's. Maybe its a good idea too leave it open for the sketching phase and see if it works.
So, Vikings with a fantasy touch, think dragons world and possibly elements from WWII.
How does that sound?
December 29th, 2009, 04:57 PM
I'm gona post some info I've gathered from sites on our 4 major arcana this time, that way we can have a little reference for our cards right here in our thread. I've gotten rid of some of the parts of the texts that seemed quite irrelevant. I'll mention that there is still a lot of hocus-pocus in what I'm pasting here, stating assumptions with which I blatantly disagree. But, that being said, it IS Tarot which means you'ld HAVE to believe in that stuff to "read" the cards right ? So in that optic, let's indulge shall we ? ;)
I just found a sight that confirmed the link between Tarot suits and regular playing cards :
Cups = Hearts
Wands = Clubs
Swords = Spades
Coins = Diamonds
Also, they are apparently linked to certain social classes ? :
Cups = none
Wands = Peasants
Swords = Nobility/Militia
Coins = Merchants
And the cards can hold a "reversed meaning" if they are drawn upside down (like the Runes holding different meaning if they are right side up or upside down). Not sure if this info can be of any use to us but I reckoned I'ld mention.
Key Words :
Change, Exposure, Transition, Termination, Inevitability
All of us stop and shift in our seats when we come upon the grim reaper. Many of us equate death as an ending. Thankfully, that is not what this card is about. The Death card speaks of a major conclusion in an area of our lives. The key point to remember here is that where there is an ending, there is also a beginning.
Life is in constant motion and this is the irony of the Death card. Death is never the end - it is simply a motion in a different direction. The historical nature of the Tarot is steeped in allegory. As such, this occurrence of this card rarely indicates actual physical death.
Key Symbols :
Skull: Long seen as a symbol of humanity's mortality - the skull is a symbol that all things change and transition. Some cultures see the skull as the seat of the mind - the home of our thoughts. In this case, we can translate the skull to mean the death of unwanted thoughts.
Sun: More irony with this card! The sun is a symbol of life and growth. The sun in this case serves as a symbolic reminder that where there is an ending, there is always a new beginning. The sun will rise again, and tomorrow is another day.
Rose: A long-standing symbol of purity, promise, and beauty. In the case of the Death card, this rose represents the promise of new beginnings. We must also take the thorns into consideration - with the promise of new hope, we may have to endure a few stinging thorns (painful ordeals) along the way.
--The image of Death charging across a field on his spectral steed would strike fear into the heart of almost any man. The appearance of the Death card has a similar effect on most people, though it really should not. Whether you like it or not, Death is one of the most powerful cards in the Tarot. Humans naturally fear the unknown, and so Death is our greatest fear since it is the greatest unknown. The majority of us are unaware that our mind and spirit die all the time, constantly shedding old beliefs and acquiring new ones. It has been said many times by many readers: the Death card is not a card of death - it is a card of transformation.
In the Tarot Death is nothing more than a transition to the next level of life. Whether you believe that a soul goes to heaven or back to Earth to be reincarnated, the fact remains that the soul lives on. The river shown on many versions of the Death card is a symbol, showing that life will go on, no matter what disastrous things happen. The river water will reach the sea, rise into the clouds, then rain onto the land to flow into the river again. Nothing is destroyed, because nothing can be destroyed - there can be only transformation.
Every change happens for a reason, and Death is a force like Justice in that it is absolutely fair. It does not discriminate against one group and spare another - everyone is equal in the eyes of Death. There's no point fighting death, it only makes things worse. Like the Hanged Man, accept that change happens and let it do what it must.
Take a look at the Rider-Waite version of the Death card, and note the bishop on the right side of the image. He is actually welcoming Death, because he knows of the great spiritual transformation it brings. Almost all versions of the Death card show a symbol of resurrection or re-birth. This could be the rising sun, an egg, or a sapling sprouting from the body of a dead man. All these symbols show that to progress in life, our old form must die, just as a snake sheds its old skin to reveal a shiny new one. This is the message of the card: Death must be conquered by the regeneration of the soul, and he who knows this shall live forever.
While the Hanged Man was a card of voluntary sacrifice, the Death card is a forced sacrifice - but that does not mean that it is not for your own good. Open yourself and let Death strip away all that you no longer need.
Key Words :
Change, Eruption, Upheaval, Exposure, Cataclysm, Blind-sided, Sudden Shift
One look at this card and we know something is afoot, and it doesn't look good. The Tower card is all about change; usually very sudden, not-so-pleasant change.
Such a drastic upheaval means the Universe is trying to wake us up from our zombie-like state. This wake-up call comes in the form of an event that blind-sides us and shakes us out of the fog we've been living in.
When we are so entrenched in one single way of life, or one inflexible way of thinking we sometimes need to get a little rattled to get out of our daze. This is exactly what the Tower card represents.
An interesting observation about this card, particularly in this rendition (Morgan-Greer) is its movement. Clouds are rushing, fire is thrashing, waves are crashing, people are falling, everything is at high-speed motion except for the tower. This symbolizes that the signs have been all around us. However, we continued to sit in our "ivory tower" or continued to construct our lives based on errant thinking, all the while the storm is brewing, and a fire is blazing right in front of our eyes. So the changes foretold in the Tower card aren't so sudden, we were just too blind to see the signs. We refused to admit the problems. We simply turned away.
Key Symbols :
Falling: Falling is a befitting way to convey absolute loss of control. Most decks depict two figures falling: A male who represents conscious thought/action, and a female who represents unconscious thought/action. In this case, this is a symbol of duality and opposition. The two figures represent conflicting thoughts and actions, inevitably leading to an eruption. This concept is at the crux of all the Tower Tarot card meanings.
Fire: Fire is typically an aggressive symbol. It obliterates everything in its path, leaving little semblance of the original landscape. This is further indication that the Tower card means serious business, and when change comes it will significantly alter the landscape of our lives. It's also worth mentioning that the fire in the card burns from the top down.
Lightening: Lightening has long been seen by ancient peoples to be a direct signal from God. Some Native Americans thought lightening was brought about by a wink from the Thunderbird who was considered the Great Creator. In India, lightening was considered a flash from the third eye of Shiva, symbolizing the light of truth and enlightenment. Lightening is a powerful message of truth emanating from our highest source forcing us to conduct a reality check.
--Sometimes, when accepted and welcomed, divine wisdom and enlightenment flow freely like a calm river. The rest of the time, wisdom is blocked until it rages forth like a tidal wave and crushes anything in its path. This is the energy of the Tower card, an energy very similar to Death in that it is both a destructive and a creative force. When old attitudes and beliefs are outdated, you will have to let go of them, whether you like it or not.
When you believe material objects are more powerful than spirit and mind, you start building up a Tower of falsehoods on a very unstable foundation.
The fire of the Tower card burns away all that is negative and outdated, but it leaves behind all that is positive, all that is necessary to begin your life again and replace all that was lost. As soon as the tumbling figures on the Rider-Waite card land on the jagged rocks of reality, they are greeted with the influx of wisdom that they need to survive. And with that wisdom in hand, they can take the first step back on the true path to enlightenment.
On an inner level, the destruction of Tower is akin to the breaking-down of the fortress called the ego. When you build a wall to hide your secrets or to conceal your true self, you must know that sooner or later the wall will come tumbling down. Fantasies are particularly prone to being shattered by the power of this card; the Tower dissipates them like sunlight burning away fog. The crown on this card must be worn on a human head, not placed atop a tower of cold stone.
Key Words :
Faith, Honesty, Judgment, Resurrection, Transformation, Heeding a Call
For many, the word "judgment" evokes some very unsavoury thoughts and images. For eons this term has been associated with religion and intolerance. Wars are waged in the name of religion, and Judgement is the battlefield.
In the Christian faith, Judgment is associated with the "Judgment day." That day, according to Biblical text, in which all souls will be called and each soul is measured and marked according to virtue and obedience to God.
There is no evidence of fear in the card, and no conveyance of scolding or negativity. This is because the Judgment card meanings are not about judging against others. It has nothing to do with negative judgments made against our actions or against other people.
This card deals with honesty. When we put a negative spin on this card, it becomes confusing, confounding and seemingly irrelevant to a reading. However, when we understand that judgment is a natural, God-given gift that we can use in order answer our highest calling - it takes on an entirely new meaning.
The Judgment card comes up in a reading when it is time to heed our highest calling. When we are at a crossroads, and it is time to lift ourselves us and transform our lives. Other deck renditions show the angel Gabriel blowing his horn to call up the souls to their higher understanding. This is precisely the message this card bears. It is time to heed the call of resurrection. Now is the time to make a positive difference in our lives and in the lives of others.
Key Symbols :
Arms: The figures in this card are accepting higher knowledge with open arms. By openly embracing the new-found knowledge of our life direction we are able to more effectively move into a new direction. Knowledge is power when we take it in with open arms, we become powerful ourselves.
Cross: The ancient Greeks created this symbol with all legs of equal length and size. One of the simplest symbols, and used since ancient times, it represents several things to different cultures. In ancient Greece it is an emblem of the four elements. In the ancient Middle East, the symbol represents the four directions (north, south, east, west) and the four winds. Even the ancient Aztecs used this symbol to represent the meeting place of god (at the cross-section). The cross in this card indicates that an even-mind (sound judgment) is of foremost importance in our personal development.
Horn: The horn is the symbol of the angel Gabriel. It is an audible calling to us to rise out of our complacency and heed the call to live profound, invigorating lives. The horn is also a symbol of clarity and divine intervention.
--The card originally known as Judgement Day derives from Christian scripture, but in most religions and cultures there is the concept of spiritual rebirth after the end of the world. This is another card of transition, like Death and the Tower, but its energy is neither violent nor catastrophic despite the fact that its power is far greater. This is the energy of creation without destruction, impossible on the material plane but certainly possible in the world of the spirit. There is rebirth not through discarding negativity, but through integration of all parts of the self. The spirit is cleansed and restored without loss or addition. It remains the same, but different.
Traditionally, Judgement Day is a day of reckoning, where you must answer for your actions and your inactions. The tie to Justice cannot be missed, and in a sense, Judgement is an elaboration on cause and effect, and on the notion of cosmic justice.
As the Judgement Day represents the union of the material and spiritual world into a single unit of manifestation, so too can Judgement show the union or reconciliation of the different parts of yourself. The three human figures found on most versions of the card allude to this. The man represents the renewal of the conscious mind, the woman is the rebirth of the subconscious, and the child is the boy from the Sun, the eternal child in us all. United into one voice, they praise the angel that appears in the sky. After the non-destructive cleansing and restoration of Judgement, matter, mind and spirit are one - now and forever.
The Rider-Waite symbolism is particularly interesting. In the background are the mountains that first appeared on the Fool. The ocean is the termination of the river that flows through the Major Arcana, starting with the Empress. Gabriel's banner is red on white, the same as the Magician's robes. As with everything in life, the beginning is woven irrevocably into the end and the end will eventually lead to a new beginning. At its core, Judgement is not a card of endings, but of beginnings. This journey is over but the next, a journey on a higher plane of existence, is approaching. Judgement is the preparation for that journey; the last stop before eternity.
Key Words :
Tact, Skill, Action, Control, Focused, Driven, Motion, Balance, Physicality
Chariot battle takes a lot of skill, determination and control to manoeuvre a chariot in the heat of battle. Needless to say the Chariot represents tremendous focus and drive in order to accomplish the goal and win the battle.
An often over-looked item of chariot-battle is that the best plan of attack in a chariot is from the side. This was a common tactic for ancient chariot warriors and is mentioned here for its symbolic meaning. Coming upon our problems from the side - or a different angle will often give us the perspective we need to overcome the obstacle, or give us a different plan of attack for success.
Often, the Chariot card shows up when there is an obsession about work, a question about goals, or an issue of over-achieving. When a person is obsessed with climbing the ladder of success - the Charioteer is the one cracking the whip behind the scenes.
Key Symbols :
Crown: This deck version shows a crown of five pointed stars. These pentacles are symbolic of perfection and also indicate our Charioteer is at his physical peek of perfection. That he is wearing these stars as a crown indicates his thoughts are primarily upon the elements required to get the task at hand accomplished. His thoughts dwell upon his ability to perform to a high level in order to achieve his goals.
Horse: The horse is another symbol of physicality and vitality. The horse is linked with elemental and instinctual powers. They symbolize speed of thought, speed of deed, and speed of action.
Moons: Moons also deal with motion, influence and development. This card depicts slivered moons on the Charioteer's shoulder and at that top of his staff. These are symbols that indicate we are often driven by unseen forces in matters of obtaining goals or striving for success. Although the Charioteer is very aware of elemental matters and matters of the soul - these moons indicate that more investigation must be made on his motives.
--It is somewhat of a mystery why the Chariot, clearly a card of force and of control, should be of the Water element. But its attribution to Cancer is indeed valid because this card deals heavily with the emotions. Specifically, the Chariot is a card of emotional control; the power of the mind to shape the desires of the heart and direct them to meaningful expression. This is not the emotional control of the Emperor, who totally suppresses all of his emotions in favour of logic and reason. The man driving the Chariot knows that his emotions are not to be swept under the rug, but trained and used to his greater good.
The triumph over both positive and negative emotions is often shown by two horses or sphinxes of different colors pulling the Chariot. Though on their own they would run wild and untamed, going in whichever direction they chose to go, here they move only forward. So they still have some power, but this power has now been directed and focused by the man holding the reins.
The Chariot embodies the type of discipline that is necessary to gain control over the emotions, and this is why a military symbol has been chosen for this card. The purpose of the harsh conditions of the military is to develop the will and the ability needed to control emotions and put them to productive use on the battlefield. Only through the mastery of yourself can you ever hope to achieve mastery over others and your environment. The wisdom and the glory gained through conquering one's enemies is nothing compared to the self-esteem you build through defeating your fear. Inner enemies are often tougher to defeat than outer ones.
In the Thoth deck, written across the canopy of the Chariot is the word Abracadabra, which may seem foolish at first glance. What is the stage magician's catchphrase doing here - is there magic involved? No, there is no magic. Abracadabra comes from Hebrew, and it translates roughly to "What I have said will be done" or "As it is said, so it shall be." Nothing embodies the spirit of the Chariot more than this word.
December 29th, 2009, 05:38 PM
Tim : damn it ! I was really diggin' Death now hehe It's all good, Judgment it is :) Turns out Death, Judgment and the Tower are all variations of the same theme, spooky
Björn : to bad you don't like sci-fi, there's more than half my repertoire gone out the window ;)
Ya I agree, I reckon if we stick to only Norse material we're shooting ourselves in the foot : it's very constraining. Even though I'm very found of it, I feel we should mix "Viking" up with another sub-theme in order to respect the idea of ChoW.
I'm not convinced Tom's idea of combining Vikings with a Dragon/Fantasy touch would help much though, seeing as how Norse mythology is already knee-deep in such outlandish creatures and gods. By that I don't mean that we SHOULDN'T draw a dragon here, I only mean that I EXPECT to see a dragon or something of that sort if we're going with a Viking theme. So it doesn't seem very innovative. Also, Lord of the Rings was a mythopoeia deeply based on the Norse culture (I'ld like to say almost ripping off some of it), the Edas, the Sagas and Wagner, etc.. I mean "Middle-Earth" ? Anyway, I don't want to enter a debate about Tolkien here but I think it is fair to say that it would be hard to imagine some Viking/Lord of the Ring hybrid as to me, in essence, one is pretty much the offspring of the other.
Now Viking WWII... See I have no idea how I would tackle that, I'm not really convinced it would work either. But this odd type of pairing would demand some conceptualisation on our part, this kind of idea would stand out if we could pull it off in my opinion. Like Tom's early Metal-Lolita-Robot idea : no idea what that would look like, but it gets you thinking ;)
December 29th, 2009, 05:58 PM
I agree, Vikings, Dragons and LOTR are all the same angle, but it gives us a bit more space in the basic idea. Because this already is done for at least a hundred times we should try to give it a twist. Adding WWII is a possibility we should check out although I see some bears on the path. For instance how do we make a Schmeisser MP- 40 on a Viking believable?
December 29th, 2009, 07:43 PM
Rambozo, Im actually a big sci-fi fan but I guess it just doesnt work for me with this subject.
Another thing... Combining Nords belief with WWII is a neo-nazi thing here in scandinavia so I wouldnt do that. :S Sorry sound like Im a big partypooper.
I do think we could work around it and just do sci-fi fantasy mix on vikings. I just dont want to be doing shiny mechs and luke skyballer. Maybe add some small hints of sci-fi. So... any more ideas on this. Im sorry if Im cutting big holes in the cake.
t i m
December 29th, 2009, 09:26 PM
Nic - Thanks for the reading material man, really helpful!
B-man - No worries man, WWII & Nords is out. Definitely won' pick a topic you aren't comfortable doing.
As for theme, I am really flexible guys, so I'd be willing to do just about anything. :)
December 30th, 2009, 12:50 AM
Tom : *Mr. Schmeisser never actually designed the MP40 so we have to chalk-that name up to a historical blunder hehe The Allie's just started naming them Schmeissers for some reason and the name stuck* But you're absolutely right :) Although I think an armoured Norse Berserker sporting a Stielhandgranate would probably be cool, I think Björn brings up an another excellent point.
Björn : it's better you mention the bad points right now before we start working in one direction and then someone starts pointing fingers at us later ;) We'll just have to think of something better is all. I don't think we NEED to go sci-fi, but if we do, "small elements" like you suggest should work fine. I wouldn't want to see a transformer-thor myself so something believable would be in order. (Luke Skyballer ?? hahaha)
Besides, we've still got a few day to bounce ideas here.
Something of interest could revolve around :
- Samuraï (maybe toning down the plethora of colours associated with their gear though).
- Spaghetti Western (the man with no name, gritty "life is cheap" feel but we add some sort of devilish twist to them, or an indian-folklore angle). Not particularly fond of this one, but maybe it can spark an idea from you guys.
- Something slightly figurative with, for example, blood bursting out of a character's face or his head in a controlled explosion or the skeleton arms reaching out from the flesh or whatever to illustrate Emotions behind the card meaning ?
- The aesthetics of Alien and Predator (in the early movies, that sort of a horror feel remember ? Not that new hollywood wow hoopla)
- Maybe we could place existing historical figures in the shoes of each character ? (Samurais just got me thinking hehe). Don't reckon this is a winning idea either though...
Maybe establishing a certain "look" or palette would help guide us as well. For instance if we decide to create Klimt-esque golden backgrounds with shapes and textures, that might help us chose our direction.
Maybe we should just stick to a broader theme to begin with, allowing for a looser interpretation, like "Viking" quite simply. Which would allow for early exploration, so we could see if a "mecha-Aesir" or "lobster-faced Norn" would just be ridiculous or boring for instance (although this will probably eat up some precious time for us). In this manner we simply keep the Viking "taste", without actually having to stick to a rigid Viking line.
I can see two visual approaches to goin' about our cards. Question : Should we treat each character as it were a card/design element from the get-go ? Or should we illustrate each character in their respective contexts and then simply frame each illustration into a card with the card design around it ?
December 30th, 2009, 01:31 AM
A quick look around my computer and paste-together of a few pics.
The first half are all Ash Wood, firstly because I like his work but also to illustrate that you don't have to fall into the typical super-hero genre to be a comicbook artist hehe
t i m
December 30th, 2009, 01:07 PM
Nic - Ya know Samurai or orient inspired would be pretty sweet. I think we could remain relatively vague with the theme (as you mentioned "viking" or "samurai") and still come up with a fairly congruent style. Also I think since all of us are at around the same skill level, and very flexible in regards to style, that should bode well for maintaining unity throughout all our pieces.
As for the question of designing the character first or the card. I opened a new file in PS to take a peek at the dimensions that Daestwen wanted. It's actually pretty unique guys, very oblong, tall and slender. We should definitely start working within these dimensions from the start to plan out compositions. Also we should decide how much of the card we are going to use for a border. So yea, we should work those things out in the planning stage rather than finishing our pieces and trying to make them fit.
Oh and thanks for sharing Ashley Woods work with us, hadn't heard of him before, found his website and boy am I glad I did..
December 30th, 2009, 05:10 PM
Tim, I think its better too start of with two or three clear theme's. It's obvious all four of us like Vikings as a theme so lets settle for that:).
WWII is out of the question cos we don't want scandinavians on our back:(
SF opens a wide range of possibilities, we could see in the sketch phase what that brings us. Each of can use the SF elements he wants.
But I'm also still looking for something else that really makes it stand out little more.
What about Vikings and animals. It could mean half men half animal or animal armor or only a animal head. Animals like for example:
Horses (on them like the four drawings in Nic's post)
Insects (armor or corpses)
Tim, I agree before we start we have to know what the actual size is, so maybe think of the lay out of the final card at forehand.
December 30th, 2009, 08:21 PM
Tim : Glad you liked Wood ;) And cheers for mentioning the size factor of the cards, I'd completely forgotten Daestwen had set dimensions for our illustrations. It's quite a vertical ratio but I don't think that will pose much of a problem. I've included a blank image as an attached file here so we can all visualise the required size ratio.
If I read the description right : the size given is the size she wants for the illustration, so the card itself (with the boarder) would be larger (although probably the same ratio). I wonder if Daestwen intends to add the suits/names herself over our illustration in order to assure a continuation of type with her Tarot Deck.. Probably. That might become a factor affecting composition for us.
Tom : I'm not to sure about treating our characters as "manimals" (half man, half animal), but I thought your suggestion of having mounts was rather good. For the Aces at least : that way they all have something in common, the character's are riding a creature. One might be a some wolf-beast, one might be a horse, the important factor being that that "aces" themselves are riders. It doesn't NEED to be mounts, but I think that concieving all the Aces with something in common is an excellent point.
I agree we should keep "Vikings", and that maybe we don't really need more direction to begin with. But if we can come up with an extra "flavour" before we start drawing then all the better I think. I mean, what else is there to do right now ?
Hmm, what if we keep the "Norse detailing" ? By that I mean, for instance if we design an armour, the base of this armour, the "skeleton", the core-shape could be japanese/samurai based let's say as long as all of the materials and knots and design and chain mail and sword pommel, etc. were all worked in Nordic fashion ? I don't want to actually draw a quicky to illustrate this idea so as not to infringe on Daestwen's "no drawin' " rule here, I hope you guys sorta get the image of what I mean.
In any case, keep the suggestions coming for an extra theme, even they aren't perfect maybe some weird idea will open up the door to a really cool "combo" hehe.
As far as maintaining continuity goes, I reckon once we get going we should be able to pick up the interesting parts from each of our drawings and integrate them, and in the end do a once-over to have key details repeat across all 8 of our cards.
December 31st, 2009, 07:53 AM
I love the samurai idea! And damn you just pulled out my favourite artist as inspiration, Ashley wood is a god!
I also think a style will come ones we start wips and descussion around art direction. I so want to start drawing it kinda hurts. :D
We should ask Daestwen if she intends to add suits herself? In that case we whont spend time designing frame and suite.
One of my cards will have 2 mounts and I was thinking griffons but horses would work also. :)
We could go Mounts for high arcana and the low arcana on foot. :) Just a sugestion.
January 1st, 2010, 07:16 AM
Happy New year fellas. It's finally DRAWINGTIME :D
January 1st, 2010, 08:12 AM
Happy New year!
January 1st, 2010, 04:28 PM
t i m
January 1st, 2010, 05:20 PM
YA, I'll try to find some more ref materials and begin posting some of my ideas!
January 2nd, 2010, 03:03 AM
Finlly got home ! (again).. Borin' holidays these. Happy New Year to you boys as well, hope this one turns out MUCH better than the last. 2009 was right bollocks for me...
Right, thought I'ld pich in with some Viking-oriented REFs.
I found a Viking Tarot Deck somewhere on the net, what was interesting was Fenrir as "Death" I think it was (I've included the card in the REFs here, the wolf with the sword in mouth).
As for the Aces, to continue with Tom's "rider" idea (when I said I thought it was a good call if the aces all had something in common, that they could all be riding something, a dragon, a horse, whatever) : another suggestion is maybe the common thing they could have is an aureola ? Sorta like with the Orthodox icons ?
January 2nd, 2010, 09:18 AM
Great moodboard Nic, not a bad start for 2010 I would say. Hope things will turn out better this year.
Chances are I'm going to be stuffed with work next week so I've already made some first sketches.
The Tower is a difficult one, and I'm not sure yet what direction I'm going to take it. For the Ace of Wands I did a male and a female. I believe it has to be a male but not sure about that. Horses and dragons would be my two favourite animals, but that can change.
January 2nd, 2010, 09:55 AM
Nice sketches Tom I like the second one the most, best composition in that one. :) The last one is not a character. ;)
January 2nd, 2010, 01:52 PM
Aye I agree with Björn : the second one is a strong base to start on, nice elements forming up already, and the tower still needs to be a character hehe That's why I was interested in the Tower card actually, how to translate a "tower" into human-ish- form.
January 2nd, 2010, 04:05 PM
Yes, I know it's not a character yet, but it's a start. I'm thinking there are two directions, one starting from a building like the sketch and then trying to humanize it. And the other way is to start from a body and build or 'dress' it up with rocks wood etc. I don't know yet but it sure is a challenge, thats why I picked it.
January 2nd, 2010, 04:37 PM
:) The second really reminds me of old conan comics. awesome. :D
I got to start my wips on the ace of pentacles today. A really early rough sketch was of a dude with a pentacle tattoo on his back but it was so dark. Pentacles is a possitive happy card. :D So now im posting this wip. Its in the right direction. wanna hear your thought son it. :) Oh, and its not going to be a trace of lineart when Im done rendering.
I will add flowers and mountains in the bottom of the card and clouds around and behind the pentacle. Im thinking of making the pentacle look old and relic like.
January 2nd, 2010, 05:30 PM
Very nice sketch Björn, damn those legs look sweet. Maybe it would be nice if the pentacle is carved into a rock or something. Is it possible for you to make a version of here riding a dragon ore a wolf ore something? You're absolutely right about the positive sphere the card should have but I'm curious about the other darker sketch, post it if you like.
Here's another sketch for the Tower. It's more of a character because it started as a human figure, maybe I put him on a giant monsterdragon. I believe the Tower card is one of the most darkest.
January 2nd, 2010, 09:06 PM
haha killer sketches so far an haha this is gunna RRRRRROOCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK GOOD LUCK YALL
January 3rd, 2010, 12:15 AM
snappy snap b-man crack out the big wip!!! great start you guys!
January 3rd, 2010, 12:30 AM
You guys are doing norse?! :O jealous jealous jealous.
Could have had an easy one if you chose the eight of anything, sliepner would fit right in.
January 3rd, 2010, 04:28 AM
Nice sketchs guys ! keep them comin ! ;)
January 3rd, 2010, 05:10 AM
Excellent work, you guys. I'm keeping my eye on that Ace of Pentacles design especially. I really like where its going.
January 3rd, 2010, 06:19 AM
I really dig the sepia tone sketches. The nordic theme is awesome.
January 3rd, 2010, 11:26 AM
Hahaha, you guys are crazy!
Very cool thread, awesome enthusiasm!
Sweet sketches too
Keep at it!
t i m
January 3rd, 2010, 11:43 PM
Tommoy - Great work! I especially like the second one of the dragon rider. I like what you're doing with the Tower too. Very imposing, very hulk-esque as he should be. :) Loving it all!
B-man - Sweet work, I like the youthful approach you have going for the character and the incorporating a literal interpretation of the symbol into your design.
Busy weekend with work and what not, but I hope to get some real progress done in the next few days. I'm gong to do my best and incorporate the "rider" element into my ace design. Still fleshing out some ideas for Death really trying to think outside of the box.
January 4th, 2010, 02:40 PM
Progress, I'm going for the dragonrider as the Ace of Wands. Started with some coloring.
January 4th, 2010, 07:03 PM
Awesome sketches so far guys and a nice nordic theme.
The color version of the dragon rider is coming along great. The last one not so sure about, while the blue water contrasts well with the orange glow the drawing doesn't work for me, I liked the B&W version better.
Maybe you guys should clarify if the tower indeed cannot be a building. A building, if important enough and sentient enough, could be a character imo. Worth clarifying with the moderators. I really liked that initial building sketch by Tommoy in #94. Also the idea of starting with it and trying to "humanize" it seems real interesting as an approach.
B-Man: Always keeping them sexxy and you know I'm a big fan of your stuff! Great so far. Glad to see you've decided to take part of this TCHOW.
Good luck guys!
t i m
January 4th, 2010, 08:39 PM
Tommoy - Your killing it! Love what you did with the dragon rider. Also I don't mind the direction you're taking with the Tower, keep plugging away, I'd like to see where it goes :)
A mockup of Death. I wanted to incorporate a ruin stone into the piece. They were like Norse grave stones. I gotta figure out a way to spruce her up though, Norse out her wardrobe a bit more. May go with this, overhaul it, scrap it, still up in the air.
January 4th, 2010, 08:49 PM
Just a thought. The cards are really tiny with the dimentions that was given so size the cards and see that your focus point dosnt get to tiny. I see there could be a problem with a big mount. Meybe its just me that worry too much about how the images read on a tiny card. :S anyway its woth thinking about.
This is the set size..
See what I mean? Tom your awesome viking gets so tiny.
And tim that is looking great. maybe it would look cool if you add some more detail to the cloaths, like patterns in the fabric or something. :)
January 4th, 2010, 09:48 PM
I've been wokin' to finish this illustration of mine due in next week, get that out of the way so I can concentrate on TChoW properly (should be done about tomorrow I reckon). That being said, I've sketched away a few Tarot ideas in my book but they don't quite do it for me just yet. At least I've got a few leads. I'll post some sketches real soon though !
Tom : The dragon rider's coming along, can't wait to see what freaky weird dragon-thing you come up with ;). I'm not so sure about the Tower yet though, it's a little too "first degree" for me I think? Maybe think about the fact that the tower is supposed to be a culmination of earthly prestige ? And that it shatters when the fool figures he should be "building" himself rather than something material. I don't know what that would spell out drawing-wise though, dunno if making the Tower vain-and-covered-in-gold type of thing would be a particularly good way to go. I DO believe it should be a guy and that he should be huge and invulnerable type of thing. That feels right. I also think the choice of the hammer as a weapon is quite appropriate (if he needs a weapon, I just noticed he has none in the second version).
Hmm, maybe he should be some big assed giant warrior creature being struck down by Thor's lightning ? All screaming in pain and rage. Like, have Thor half his size in the background or something.
Or how's about having some greyish-stone-monster-giant shattering, falling apart from the chest like his skin was to dry and brittle and from within there's a golden light that shines out and melts away the stone. And inside you can see maybe a young teenage Viking, or some fair maiden or whatever, some enlightened and/or "pure" character ? Just bouncin' quick thoughts, maybe some part can give you some sorta inspiration.
Björn : I always loves the nekkid! hahaha But maybe some sort of Nordic theme would help tie the character in. For the time being I see some miscellaneous chick, probably in the grand canyon ? Tom's suggestion that you carve the pentacle into stone might help, something like the stones at the København National Museum or the Stone at Tjängvide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tj%C3%A4ngvide_image_stone maybe ?
If the ace of pentacles is supposed to be a good omen for material gain, new opportunities, I definitely could see some Viking raiding party, burning down a church and leaving with a ton of gold in the Drakkar ! The Ace character peering over the edge of the dragonship, hanging onto a rope perhaps. hehehe But hey, that's twisted old me... ;)
But ya, no, semi-clad women is always a winner :) just have to make sure she has enough clothing for us to really get the proper information from it, describe the character, what she does, where she's from, etc.
--I was wondering if we were gona go with a rider theme for the Aces ? Or an aureole maybe ? Have we trashed the idea of having a common point for them all ?
Tim : I'm diggin' the value work, but like you said you need to Norse-her-ass some ;) Dunno if goin' with the classic sickle is gona "cut it" though ? (f+ck what a WONDERFUL pun that was... hehe ) As she is now, I get a vampire feeling more than anything else.
Death calls up big change and subsequent "resurrection" of the querent right ? So maybe you could make her a Valkyrie ? They chose the worthy amongst the dead, that really rings to the card's meaning, embracing change and all. Or a Norn maybe, since they weave life and decide (although blindly) who dies, where and when, and all things in life. And one of the Norns is an old hag so you can make her look all deathly.
I dunno, I might have gone with a male character and a skull (like I said before, I dig them skulls hehe) peerin' right at the viewer, askin' for some sacrifice somehow. Ya I know I know, generic right ? But there was just something about the "black armour and white rose" Tarot bit that felt just right I guess.
Alright, that was my quick feedback for the day. I hope to get started on some productive sketchin' tomorrow and have something worth critiquing to show by the day after !
January 4th, 2010, 09:57 PM
Björn : Ya I was worried about that myself. But the way I figured is : we do the pick in those proportions as if it were a regular ChoW, and if (because as I understand it, it's still only a possibility ?) Daestwen chooses to print the cards then she can focus on a certain part of the illustration ? Which would sorta suck because then you lose our original vision if it gets cropped but... Is it better if we render mini drawings in the end ?
That being said, I just went back here and reread the dimensions Daestwen wants. They really aren't that small, about 3 inches wide by 6 tall ? That's a He-Man right there! :) On my screen at least, the dimensions you posted of the Ace of Wands are about half-sized. So if you double them it starts becoming decent I reckon.
January 5th, 2010, 07:27 AM
Well Im glad to hear that. :) No I think render it big and if Daestwen wants to make it smaller she could resize. Sounds good. I ahve been looking around and most dont seem to bother thinking of size. Later problem I guess. :D
For the ace of pentacle I would like to see her like Freja, like an (demigod?) Yeah I was gonna do the stone thing. The raid party is a good Idea. Im gonna look into that.
As for mounts, Im gonna have it in the chariot card and I could add a flying chreature in the background of the ace of pentacles. :) Or, redo the whole thing.
January 5th, 2010, 10:00 AM
Tim, the grave/ruin stone seems a good idea for Death. I like your sketch a lot, the hood looks really good, some vague suggestion of a scull with glowing eyes would be nice but thats just a thought. A little more 'death' wouldn't hurt though.
Björn, point taken, it's a fact the dragon takes a lot of space. I'm gonna try to lay the focus primarily on the character, that should help. It's also possible I make the dragon a bit smaller or bend the tale some other way.
Björn, I've made a little sketch of Ace of Pentacles on a owl, but it could be anything of course. Its just to get a idea of the mounting aspect. Tim, you could consider Death riding a dead horse or something. I know Tower isn't mounted, but let me first get Tower sorted out and then maybe...
Nic, thanks for the suggestions. I'm struggling along with the Tower, here are a few scribbles.
January 5th, 2010, 07:05 PM
I thought of somthing while taking an epic shit this afternoon. What if we skip the mounts and go for pets instead. Each character has its own pet. Could be any animal even made up. I just thought its easier to work together with the character and not loose focus of it and it makes composition easier. I know its har to get a mount working for the tower but a guardian pet dragon is easier or a pack of vissious vultures. :) Its still early right nothings set in stone?
Nic - Im still a fan of your aureola idea. it kinda passed unnotised but I trired adding it to see what it looks like. Its awesome for composition and symbolics.
Tom - I like this first tower of these two alot.
edit: the manage attachments is not loading for me at the moment Ill try adding the wips later
January 6th, 2010, 04:31 AM
Haha, talking about a epic shit. This sketch I've made earlier didn't make it because it looks like she's the Ace of Epic shit:)
Björn, I like your idea of pets, this opens up possibilities for the Tower. Personally I like the Towertower also. Its not a character yet though, I've tried give it some arms and a face, but that ruins the Tower effect.
January 6th, 2010, 03:59 PM
Not to butt in or anything, but if you are struggling for ways of incorporating a story with your figures and animals, why not push the Norse-ness of your cards and even try to make the characters into some Norse deities? The chick with the pentacle could easily be Freyja (she has a magic necklace, a falcon cloak and a chariot pulled by huge cats which is all cool imagery) and you have a Thor and maybe an Odin already.
Or, barring that, you have 4 aces = 4 horsemen of the apocalypse
Loving the progress, keep going!
January 6th, 2010, 06:30 PM
Alright, I finished that other piece ! Good to go for a while here, I got an illustration contract in architecture commin' up but it shouldn't be that much of a drain on time I hope.
Hmm, first up I'ld have to agree with Jessi : I don't see the point of having animals on each card. The major arcana already have character on their own. I mean, I can easily see Death on a horse for instance, but I can not wrap my mind around the Tower having some sort of ride/pet.
That doesn't mean I don't think it's a good idea for the aces : the aces are the "potential" of the suit right ? It works for me here, more importantly it makes the Aces stand out as a bunch of their own. Again, what I think would be cool is to have a common element to our aces, if Björn likes the aureole idea in stead for instance, hey it's all good to me. I'm not completely sold on the four horsemen angle though what with all the imagery surrounding them and their Judaeo-Christian meaning, but some sort of an offshoot could be decent. Maybe something from the Ragnarok, although we wanna be careful not to focus on the grim here with all our aces (as the Apocalypse would suggest).
I was also exploring the lore for inspiration as Jessi mentioned. Finding similarities with the cards and the Valkyries or Tyr etc. like I mentionned before. I think it's a good approach as long as we don't get caught up in a rigid pattern : it's some great material but as far as we're concerned here I reckon we also wanna do our own thing.
Tom : Yaaaa, I prefer the dragon to the brown-snake somehow ! ;) The tower's gona be a hard one, but I like a challenge hehe Shoot some ideas our way if you like, that helps me when I'm havin' a hard time. Get some exterior point of view.
B-man : can't wait to see that sketch man. Ya I agree, aureoles can often help quite a bit with composition. Hmmm, you remember how I was suggesting the pentacle on your ace be a carved stone ? Maybe it could be some freaky Norse aureole all made of light with rune stones floating around the perimeter... I dunno, just a thought.
Alright, a few quickies for right now, the ones that weren't rubbish. More to come. Tried having Mimir speaking to the querent through Judgement, maybe Wotan holding his head up to the viewer... I prefer the version with Judgement calling up all the dead memories from the ground with his horn though, perhaps a Heimdal-ish Judgement (Heimdal would warn all the Aesir with his horn from the Bridge).
January 6th, 2010, 07:16 PM
Thanks to the people who comment on our sketchbook, it's really helpful:)
So its not a necessarity to incorporate animals, that makes Tower a little easier:^^;:
Using a Northern light effect in every card could be useful for the consistency.
Nic, I like your sketches, the last one appeals most (nice storytelling) composition wise the other two are better though.
Did a little more work on the Ace of Wands.
t i m
January 6th, 2010, 10:57 PM
Hey there guys! :assspank:
Tommoy: - I do love the building-esque tower, hopefully you can play around with that one a bit. Oh and yea, the update on the Ace of Wands....AWESOME! As for the common element for the Aces, I still don't mind the mount. The northern lights could work for me. I don't mind the mount either.
Nic - Digging the sketches for Judgment. I like the third one best, but I agree with Tom and maybe try and rework the comp a bit? All in all though a strong start, I hope the other projects don't cut into your time too much.
B-man - Looking forward to seeing some progress, let's see if we can't nail down that unifying factor.
Here's some progress on my end.
1. Spent a bit on my Death character, took Tom's suggestion and added bit of skull, some furry boots and scarf and she's Norse right? Hah, I don't know guys all the rendering in the world won't take away the boring. Oh and although composition wise the moon is cool, lighting wise it makes no sense. May scrap it.
2. Sorry bout the toon-ish nature, but I was trying to get my point across with color quickly. I got the idea that Death rides through a field of dead, they're souls awaken and begin to mount the ghost horses that Death has brought with him, and away they ride into the pale blue moonlight.
3. A quick sketch, cliche, no?
4. Onto the comp studies. I like this one the best. Moon accenting the figure. Death, on his Death horse, and ghost horses cascading back. Bodies in the foreground, middle, background. Souls rising to meet their steeds.
5. Playing with camera angles, overhead shot of the same scene. A bit cramped, but I kinda like it. Not as much as the first though.
6. Same story, different perspective. I like this one the second best. It really sets Death out front and center. I may elaborate.
So yea, major arcana coming along.
Aces wises, I agree with Nic that a unifying characteristic should be used. I'm loving Tom and B-man's progress. I'd hate to have to pick something that would drastically change either design. I'd look for similarities between the two. I did like Tom's idea of B-man character riding an owl, but if that creates too many problems we can look at the northern lights, Norse mythology, wardobe, location, anything. :)
Let's keep it up guys!
January 7th, 2010, 03:29 AM
For Judgement I also preferred the third pic I posted earlier. I'll toy with some other ideas soon but for now I like the "story" like Tom says on that one, even if the visuals have to be worked on (I have an idea for the ghosts that should fix this particular composition some).
Playing with the Ace of Swords a little more this evening. Different ideas, not gettin' bogged down in details and costumes yet, just wanna bull's eye the big picture first. Went with a female Ace this time, see where that took me. Also figured one of us should have a Drakkar in there somewhere, dunno if it works so hot at the moment but I'll see if I can work one in somehow. Postin' 'em here and callin' it a night. Get some sleep and shoot a few more off tomorrow.
Tom : I see you're startin' to work on a monastery/castle in the background. Got me thinkin' about Nordic architecture hehe Went and found a few quick refs on the net then. Here are a few stave-church pics I found, figured I'ld share them : steep-sloped wooden roofs and dragon heads just scream "Viking" as far as I'm concerned :) (ironically these are Christian churches...) :
Crit about the evolution of your Ace. I feel the cape takes away from the strength of the original sketch (at least where the cape lies now), where you had the odd laced-up dragon-harness thingy visible against the light background and his right fist up higher, looking more in control of the dragon I reckon. Quite liked that.
Tim : Of your sketches I prefer number 6. There might be less focus on Death (as in number 4), but I like the fact that you can see a path, a direction in the composition.
Alright, I'm buggered, hittin' the sack !
January 7th, 2010, 01:32 PM
Tim, nice work with the new sketches. If you compare them with your initial sketch, witch was in no meaning bad (beautiful values on the body!), it's obvious the new sketches are more erm... alive, skull or no skull :) Of course the image with the skeleton on a skeleton horse is chewed on before, but still with integrating the Viking elements and the Nordic light it could be just something else. Images four and six are the most interesting.
Nic, thanks for the Nordic architecture, it pushed me a step further as you can see in some new sketches I've made.
I agree somewhere there has to be a drakkar, but don't forget the carved stones, the weave patterns that are in your moodboard. They are so typical for Vikings, we could/should use them.
From your Ace of swords I like the first graytone best, it has a nice lighteffect that could make this pic very dramatic.
January 8th, 2010, 01:23 AM
I was screwin' around with the Ace of Sword some more and THIS happened. Ace of Swords = Ace of Spades... Anyone into Motörhead at all ? hehe
I put in more time than I planed on this one but I was havin' fun so it's all good. I don't think we can use it for a Tarot Card (not to mention it doesn't respect the ChoW 3/4s rule), but I might end up keepin' Lemmy as a template for my Viking dude though. He's pretty weathered nd battered I'ld say hahah I didn't think he would fit in at all but the result is actually kinda convincing I think, well... a lot more than what I EXPECTED at any rate ;)
Tom : I like your number 4 the most out of the new batch. The pose is the best I reckon. I honestly am not sold on this Tower-golem thing though, not to mention P from team Tomato Tea seems to be goin' in that direction as well.
But in that same vein, I was thinkin' since the Tower is supposed to have people falling off of it in the regular Tarot, maybe you could have the tower as some sort of "ride", a humanoid ride of course. I was thinkin' this would work pretty well with some robo-mech or something like that with the "pilot" on top, but this could be made to be some sort of living/magical armour type giant. Anyway, just throwin' out another idea. I drew a quickie from your original hammer-wielding-tower idea to help illustrate what I mean. Ok ok it looks crumby but it still should be better than words alone hehe
I agre about the carved wood : that's quite nice as well. I'ld like to manage them into my cards but I don't wanna force it either type of thing ? Anyway, more sketches to come, one WILL work for me !!!
January 8th, 2010, 05:57 AM
Mr Kilmister NIIICE.
About the Tower, I'm not looking what other teams think up. Just go with what suits me fine. The idea of a mech kind of tower is possible although I want him mainly consisting of rock, stones and wood. In my new sketch THE HAMMER's back, talking about Motörhead :rocker:
January 8th, 2010, 10:51 AM
That tower is really coming along! It looks slightly bulky to me still, but the intimidating vibe is coming through awesomely.
January 9th, 2010, 08:15 PM
Yup Tom, that last tower looks good to me too, not the colors but the design.
January 9th, 2010, 09:38 PM
Hey looks like I might be travellin' to Vietnam end of February for that architecture gig I mentioned earlier. You just might have been right Tom : 2010 just might work out hehe
the HAMMMER ! hehe I liked it before but now, now it's the HAMMER ;) The update makes me think the character's breathing through some towering lava-tubes, dunno if you were goin' in that direction ? All cavernous and burnin' from the inside like. Is that Jormungand swimming towards him ?
Some more screwin' around on my part : some for Judgement, some for the Ace. I feel I'm sticking to close to some historical likeness for the moment with the Viking theme so I figured I'ld try and cut loose some. I'll do more, see where they gets me.
January 9th, 2010, 09:57 PM
Tommoy, if I could cuddle up to your brain in hopes of getting some of that creativity, I'd be there. Nice work. Looks intimidating, and innovative.
t i m
January 10th, 2010, 01:54 AM
Tom - Loving what you're doing with the Tower! So glad you took the time to rework this guy as much as I liked the hulking viking, this is just so much better, can't wait to see more!
Nic - Congrats on the gig, Vietnam, very cool man! Loved the last couple series of sketches you've done. Digging the mask work, like the thought you're putting into designing it, going with a samurai-viking inspired design, pretty sweet. Keep plugging away, one of those sketches is bound to work.
On my end, I've finally nailed down what I'm doing for death. Researched the card a bit and got inspired by this story:
"The air is cold and wintry, the trees bare. Before him, he sees, rising with the sun, a skeleton in black armor mounted on a white horse. He recognizes it as Death. As it stops before him, he humbly asks, "Have I died?" He feels, in fact, rather empty and desolate. And the Skeleton answers, "Yes, in a way. You sacrificed your old world, your old self. Both are gone, dead." The Fool reflects on that, "How sad." Death acknowledges this with a nod. "Yes, but it is the only way to be reborn. A new Sun is rising, and it is, for you, a time of great transformation."
January 10th, 2010, 11:30 AM
Nic, cool drawings, specially the face and hand are nicely done. I also like your search for the helmet. Personally I like the second goat kind of helmet the most. The Viking/samurai helmet/mask looks sweet too. I hope you keep the Drakkar, its a very strong element. About Judgement, here's some text I came along googeling Viking law, its quite interesting.
The Vikings and the Law
Did the Vikings have laws?
Oh, yes they did and we know what they were like. The very word LAW in English is a Viking word. The English word for a local law, e.g. laws about where you can park cars etc., is "by-law". The word "by" comes from the Scandinavian word for "town". Similarly a local election is called a "by-election". There are no indications that the 'Danelaw' in England was more lawless than the areas under Anglo-Saxon rule.
What was the Viking Legal System like?
The 'ting' was the Viking word for a legislative assembly and a court. A criminal was brought here to stand trial. The presumed facts of the case were established by a panel (Old Norse "kvidr") of people stating what they THOUGHT was the truth.
A jury of 12, two times twelve or three times twelve, depending on the importance of the case, decided the question of guilt. The 'law-sayer' told the jury what the law said about the crime committed and the accused was either convicted or declared innocent by the jury.
If convicted, the criminal was either fined or declared an out-law. To be an outlaw meant that the criminal had to live out in the wilderness and no one was allowed to help him in any way, and he was free game for his enemies. They were free to do their best to hunt him down and kill him.
'Ull's ring', the sacred ring of the Norse god ULL, is supposed to have been important at trials.
What about Vikings attacking and raiding other people?
There was no law against war with others (Is there today?). Like the Elizabethans in England and others, the Vikings had no law against piracy as long as it was against the "enemy", so raids outside the "law-area" were not illegal!
To solve disputes
Holmgang (A duel) was a common way of solving disputes and there were detailed rules for duels. If the duel took place near the coast a small islet, hulme or skerry was chosen, and inland duels took place at some secluded place. Swords and shields were favourite weapons. The sagas state that a dueller was defeated as soon as his blood touched the ground. To win a duel was regarded as proof that you were right, because the gods always helped the "right" man to win. The introduction of Christianity put an end to this kind of duel.
Ordeal by fire
Jernbyrd 'carrying of (hot) iron' (Old Norse: Járnburdr) The Christian church introduced the Vikings to ordeal by fire. The most common method was to grab a piece of iron from boiling water and walk 9 paces with it carrying it in ones hands.
This way of deciding the truth outlived the Viking Age. Inga from Varteig in 1218 'carried iron' to prove her son Håkon Håkonsson (king of Norway 1217 - 1263) was the rightful heir to the throne of Norway.
Walking 12 paces on red-hot irons (ploughshares for instance); could prove innocence if after 3 days the feet were inspected and the wounds were found clean e.g. without infection.
Harald Gille, king of Norway from 1130 - 1136, "proved" his right to the throne walking on hot iron.
The Christian church introduced these methods and the church also abolished them. In Norway it was abolished in in 1247.
In Fiji, among other places, fire walking is still performed today using hot stones. This is done as a cultural ceremony, not a trial.
Tim, that a very inspiring text, almost can see the picture before me.
Björn, any progress on the Ace of Pentacle.
The Tower is coming along fine, its less bulky, thanks Nightbleu, the colors are a little better, thanks Niva, I've made changes to the towers, they're not supposed to be tubes, and now I know what exactly is swimming between his toes, thanks Nic ;) I'm going to give it some more admospheric depth, I want it to be hUge. Maybe I use some Nordic light in the background. Of course there will be lightning, just gonna keep working on it.
January 10th, 2010, 06:26 PM
great ideas mates.The thumbnails are very interesting :)
January 11th, 2010, 01:17 PM
I need to get my head around, Ive been in bed with flu! Damn this year is just the best already! XD Anyway. No excuse Ill be posting soon. sry mates! Im not letting you down. :)
t i m
January 11th, 2010, 06:04 PM
B-man - Jeez, talk about a tough start to the new year. Hope you are feeling better bro, we still got plenty of time so no worries. Feel better and keep us updated when ya can :)
Tom - Loving the progress, no real crits from me, it just keeps getting better and better!
Here's a bit of progress from me..
January 11th, 2010, 10:17 PM
I really like the tower, it's coming alone very well. the color is nice, and I just like how the stone and bricks has character and personality. However (here we go...lol), from my understanding, The Tower means "vanity, chaos, and destruction". This guy looks too peaceful, too "in control". In traditional Tarot card, tower is always showing on fire or falling down. well, that's how I picture tower~ looking forward to how you interpret it.
January 11th, 2010, 11:51 PM
great stuff! I want more :)
t i m
January 12th, 2010, 03:24 PM
Or maybe something like this?
January 12th, 2010, 04:36 PM
I love the morning sun in the first death image. Build on that mood and it'll look great!
t i m
January 12th, 2010, 05:09 PM
Janos - Thanks man! Yea I really was digging the color scheme too, had a decent amount of mood to it. I can always go back to that piece. I suppose I wanted to challenge myself though, hence the overhead comp of this last one. Could be great or a complete disaster, we'll see... :)
January 12th, 2010, 07:07 PM
Tim : I think the composition on your last one is miles ahead of your first pic (she-death by the stone). I liked the inclusion of the stone in the first one though, maybe you could have one or two in some background. I say this and I see a few vertical stones popping out from the ground, a few sorta disapering in the distance another one closer so we can see a few details on the carvings and such. Hell dath is near right so maybe the carvings are glowing a little because of his presence or something... Anyway hehe
I do find it's a pretty "typical" image of death though, but I'm sure that can be solved with Norse layering and detailing onto the character. I think this one fits in with the potential of # 4 and 6 in your post number 121. When I compare them I personally prefer seeing death on his/her ride simply because it places the character on a pedestal figuratively, like he's better than you, but this one on foot also works for me. I prefer the fact that he's dealing with only one person in this version as opposed to the multiple riders in post 121. The association between the corpse and the querent is much easier this way, I find.
I quite like the angle too, and much prefer the helmet to the hood. So they have their pros and cons. Am I right in assuming you're goin' with a raven-styled helmet ? If so that's cool for the symbolism and also because I think I might be moving in that direction with my Judgement card (but more about that in a subsequent post).
Also, the sun is a key symbol for this card so I guess with the camera angle from above it sorta kills the possibility of including it in the pic (although again it makes for a nice perspective visually). Maybe you could have the morning sun included in some other way. I can see the shadow cast behind the character right now so I can "see" a sun there, but I reckon that's because I know I should be looking for one. Maybe there's some way of adding it symbolically ? Dunno, just a thought. The morning sun reflecting offa the black armour is gona look sweet though I imagine, set up against some pale bluish skull/body could be pretty killer pallet wise.
Tom : Ya Danelaw :) Thanks for the info, interesting. Any suggestions on how to work some of this in with the meaning of the card ?
Björn : Are you still having problems tryin' to post those pics you were talkin' about in your previous post ? Get well dude, anxious to see your stuff. Maybe you could give us some feedback if you're still to ill to draw any ?
Alright, I'll be posting some more sketches later. Not "the one" yet but I think I might be settling on an idea or two. Anyway, I'll get into that later.
**Edit : hey Tim, I took at a look at your new pic as I was posting this and a thought just accured to me about the viewangle : maybe it can be the point of view of the corpse's "soul" assending to a higher plane, looking back down at Death. That could be cool : scary because you die, but you also understand that it's for a new beginning. I dunno,I mention 'cause I rather liked the posibility and it just popped for no reason in my head hehe**
January 12th, 2010, 08:32 PM
Alright, a few more forays. Again, letting loose a little, not thinkin' about composition at all, these are the ones that came out not completely horrible. (4's a sculpted forehead helmet, I shoulda mentionned I guess)
One good thing that came out of this is I think I might settle on the Valkyrie idea for the Judgement card. Would seem to tie-in well with it's meaning. If I'm to believe the online sources she's pretty close to Death this card of mine, only this is a voluntary sacrifice, a rebirth that the fool can chose to forgo.
Started fiddling around with some raven-inspired head gear for this Valkyrie, number 6 got out of hand but might be a good direction. Maybe have her floating above over a sacrificial alter, sword readyto be plunged into the fool ? I dunno, I still like my first sketch, the one with the rib-cage horn-blower and the ghosts... A rib-cage Valkyrie maybe ? hehe Thoughts ?
I'm gona keep goin' at it a little, but I'm gona need to settle at the latest by the end of the week so I can start putting some nice detailing on the final pieces. Any help as far as the concept goes would be appreciated at the moment.
t i m
January 12th, 2010, 08:33 PM
Nic - Thanks man! I'm happy with this one too, It gets me the close up I was looking for on Death, which his horse was causing problems with before. I'd have to pan back to get the full horse in, and it was taking the focus off of my main dude. I chose this perspective as a way of capturing the moment of when death approaches the mortally wounded guy on the battlefield, allowed me to get both their faces. Plus I can add some neat extras into the snow for compositional and the narrative's sake. I wish I had room to add a ruin stone, but I don't think it's going to fit. :( You were also spot on about the helmet, I'm going with a Raven-esque armor design for death. I think it fits well in terms of symbolism and also could fall into the Norse category as well. I think the fallen soldier should solidfy the Viking aspect of the piece. So no worries there. :)
Here's some more progress, the perspective is a tad off especially on the lower body/torso, still fidgeting with it.:
t i m
January 12th, 2010, 09:24 PM
Ooh just saw those sketches Nic, must've beat me to the punch in posting!
So yea, fucking sweet. I'm really, really digging #1. Warhammer or not, that's a kick ass helmet and imposing as hell. Also #4 is a stand out for me. If you wanted to give Judgment a feminine/feline quality that would work out well, I don't think you could go wrong either way.
As for the composition, I liked your initial sketch with the horn a lot too. It plays it pretty close to the Rider-Waite interpretation of the card. The only thing I might have changed it make it more of a scene?
I bummed this out really quick, if you like it cool, if not that's cool too. Just the idea that Judgment is calling them, it is still their choice to follow him through the door or go back to the darkness. Like you said that is the difference between him and Death. With Judgment you have a choice, and you could interpret a choice as a doorway of sorts or cavern or portal etc.
January 13th, 2010, 06:34 AM
Tom - I really like how the tower is coming along and the cool colors look great. The design has come a long way! Giood work. as mentioned, tower beeing out of control, falling apart and beeing on fire. Could add more drama. :D
Tim - Your doing great with the death pic. As Nic said its really miles ahead in composition. I like the animal like helmet/hood. I think it would be cool if it was a cut off animalhead and blood running down from it. :D Would add even more death and nord like appearence. :) Maybe make it a boarhead or a deer. Keep it up it looks great!
Nic - Thumbing like a god! I love the designs in 4 and 5. 5 beeing my favourite. maybe try one with a elk looking head more north. :D Moose and raindeer is also awesome, cool horns. :D
I also liked the boat with the pointing. It was strong.
Oki I did some more rock looking pentacle and used the outer ring as an iron ring. Dont know if maybe I should make the whole thing rock? Im kinda thinking of not going with this design. :) anyway posting for the first time, in what seems like ages. :D Cheers dudes and thanks for your patience! You rock
January 13th, 2010, 06:15 PM
Okayyyyyy, see you guys haven't been sitting still :)
Tim, you took a major leap with Death. The sketch with the nice color sceme reminded me of the Mona Lisa of fantasy art, Frazetta's Deathdealer, so cool. The second sketch looks more interesting though, the birdview angle gives it something special. I like the crowhelmet and the dead warrior and horse witch will contrast nicely with the snow I think. I know they are hell to draw, but don't forget the horses legs.
Nic, liking your search for the headgear. Like Tim I would go for #1 but maybe with the horns of #4. Concept wise Tim's idea could work, and maybe the judge could be a Valkyrie. That being said, the hornblower or the sketch in post #128 would be fine too, it's your call.
Bjorn, glad you're better mate.
I hope you keep the girl. Making the pentacle completely out of rock would be the best option I think, don't know how she has to hold it though.
Spend time rendering the Tower, this Tower is getting on my nerves, I'm not hating it yet but it's brewing.
January 13th, 2010, 06:27 PM
Björn : Cheers :) Glad to see you're back in the saddle ! Ya I might bring back the boat. I wasn't satisfied with that one in particular but it seems like an excellent element to incorporate.
Tim : Thanks for the help ! I went back and reworked the original a little. The view angle is still sh+t, but movin' the idea forward at least.
I liked your mention of some kind of a door/gateway as it brought me back to the idea of my Drakkar, "ship of the dead" type of thing. Not so much a physical door, but more the symbol of a gateway, the "stepping stone" (hey look at that, a pun without even tryin' hehe). Anyway, so I figured I might be the one to include the stone on this one, making it the "door".
The stones would have been anchors for the Bifröst (the bridge you needed to cross to get to Valhalla) to appear when the horn was blown (perhaps Heimdallr's Gjallarhorn ?) Gjallarhorn also happens to be the name of Mimir's drinking horn with which he could drink the knowledge/wisdom giving water from his spring, the same one Odin gives his eye to drink from.
I've tried including the Drakkar dragon heads into the armour as well, the armour being separated and blown further away from the body (kind of like a lung I guess) as the character blows through the horn, fire spreading from his guts. I think this covers the firey angle, but this angel is supposed to be both firey AND beautiful so, I'm gone try a new version with more of a Valkyrie type thing next, see how that goes.
What else. Oh thought maybe instead of just having fire pop up to the sky out of the stone, I thought maybe I could include some Norse knots into the design, gettin' tangled around the vertical axis of the stone. Could be cool but I dunno if I'm gona be able to pull this off clearly. We'll see.
January 13th, 2010, 06:49 PM
Tom, you beat me to the punch looks like ! ;) The rendering is seriously coming along real good, kickin' it. If you're gettin' itchy about it though, just work on the Ace & take a break some, put some distance for a while. Or try another direction for giggles. Might find a good element to incorporate or maybe even something to blow this current version out of the water (damn it I have to stop it with these corny puns...)
Fluorine might also have a point, I think I slipped a comment about this earlier, about the Tower's meaning beyond the tower itself ? I can see the buildings up top burning so that's good, but I don't feel the character himself suffering, being torn apart, vanity shattered. It feels more like the buildings are parasites on his enormous back hehe
January 13th, 2010, 07:38 PM
Tom - thanks, yeah I hear you, the whole thing should be rock. No problem with the arm I find a better place for it in the image. :) maybe even that could give me some more dress ideas.
Nic - This last update is great. He looks like hes falling forward though. maybe put his right leg further forward? The stone looks great good for composition. And the values is looking strong and dramatic. What about some thunder in the sky. :D
edit: cant sleep so I sketched a bit on the chariots face. trying to implement a northlike crown. dont really know if this is the way to go...
t i m
January 13th, 2010, 07:42 PM
B-man - Hey those are coming along! I'm with Tom on this I still think the girl is the way to go, you really captured something there a youth full appearance, almost care free. As for the pentacle, why not make it a kite of sorts? Have the outer ring be wood or some such light material, and the inner triangles be varying flags. It could represent prosperity, and if nothing else the flags could give the image some compositional pop. Just a thought. :)
Tom - YEA! I think the Tower is coming along great. If you start feeling the creative juices waning, Nic's suggestion is a good one. Stop there and start up on the Ace, come back to it in a couple of days and finish up strong. We're just about at the half way point so we should start thinking about our other characters anyway. Either way, I really like what you've done!
Nic - Haha, found a clever way to get those ruin stones into your piece. I was thinking about it and it actually makes a lot of sense. They could be "way" points so to speak to transport the dead to Valhalla. Judgment summons the dead with his horn and they ride the light UFO style up to the heavens, brilliant! As for the composition if you could find a way to sneak a couple of bodies into the piece, maybe in the shadows, it would really pull the piece together.
Here's a bit more from me, gonna give his armor a feathered appearance and a bit more literal raven helmet. Still playing with the palette. Tom, I was gonna make the horse brown at first, but such a strong value was pulling away from the silhouette of death. I opted for a higher value to blend into the snow rather than contrast with it. Added those feet too, damn horse feet. :)
January 13th, 2010, 07:56 PM
kite! Damn tim your right that would be awesome. I was thinking of fabric like a flag or something but kites are awesome!
I like the white horse and colors but I miss the sword standing in the snow. gave the perspective some more dynamics. :D Doing great bro!
January 14th, 2010, 08:04 AM
So I cant make up my mind on where to put her arm... I start render this baby when I decide.
t i m
January 14th, 2010, 11:32 AM
My vote is on the kite :)
January 14th, 2010, 11:50 AM
Björn, Yes, the kite is a great idea. Don't know about the arms, a question of taste I guess, they are both fine.
Tim, The sketch is coming along nice. I understand the horse can't be to dark because death has to stand out. You could however consider turning it around. Why should death be dark? It's a fact you have to do something different with death to give him that extra. And be careful with that horse, maybe use reference.
Nic, glad you are going for the hornblower, don't know about the legs though, why not mount him on a dragon or something?
I want to see if I can make some more then the ace of Wands an the Tower alone, so I've picket up Lovers and Princess of cups too. I don't know if I can finish both but it gives me the opportunity to draw something else. Yes I'm a workaholic with no life whatsoever :(
January 14th, 2010, 01:28 PM
Björn : The kite seems to further accentuates the native-indian feeling I get from this ace of Pentacles, reminds me of a dream catcher. It's only the gear though. If you have the arm holding the rim it sorta helps in associating both elements, the girl and the pentagram together. Plus it's less of straight-up hands-to-the-sides pose so I like that as aspect well. If you're not convinced just duplicate the pic a few times and draw different arms man, setting one next to the other usually makes the right choice obvious ;).
Tim : I think Björn had something with the upright sword. I wouldn't have noticed so much myself, but it's true that another vertical reference helps accentuate Death's own verticality as opposed to the horizontal deadies hehe
And Tom's idea might be cool as well : a white armoured Death with maybe a blue or red skull or something, to keep a colour difference. I like the idea, could make him pop right out of the image, but I also like the snow and pale horse against the black armour. The pale horse is great as well because I reckon it looks right dead and putrid maybe even. A leg probably would help though hehe. Also, I was wondering what you plan on having him hold ? Sucking souls through his hands or, holding a weapon ? I just ask because the pose seems to suggest something there.
Tom : Ya I scribbled a few quick lines for the legs and moved on haha Guess I didn't fool anyone there ;)
No pics this time, some tonight hopefully.
January 14th, 2010, 02:23 PM
Great mates!!!.Tim i love the helm of death
t i m
January 14th, 2010, 08:09 PM
Tom - Thanks man! I think I'm gonna keep him with dark armor though, It's one of the main points in the Rider-Waite description and the white rose which I tossed on the chest of the armor. Do you see something particular wrong with the horse? What I can see is from the angle a bit more of the belly should be exposed he's a little too parallel to the viewer screwing up the perspective. I'm going try and address that, also I'm gonna sneak a foot in behind death's back.
Oh, I got a chuckle out of the lil' viking in the boat, nice sketches! :)
Nic & B-man - Tossed an Ax and the beginnings of his sickle which should help with the vertical perspective. Thanks for the advice guys!
Nic - There's gonna be some magic going on in that right hand ;)
January 15th, 2010, 05:09 AM
Tim, awesome, the armor is getting shape, and helmet and skull are looking great! You are probably right about Death needing to be black and of course its the best contrast with the snow. About the horse you are right at this angle you should see more belly. There are some other minor things that I tried to put my finger on but I'm certainly no expert. You could consider making it a dragon, this would give you more freedom :) One other thing I would mention is the cape he's wearing looks a little straight. Hope it's helpful.
January 15th, 2010, 05:34 AM
It's 4:30 in the mornin' here, I'm tired as f+ck, makin' this one short ans sweet. Checked in before goin' to bed and I did a round on the net to get some reference pics of laying horsies. Some might be helpful :
Dead horses (some people are cunts aren't they ?) :
Tom : Likin' the new sketch, don't get over extended to where you're takin' hours away from the two cards we need to put out though.. And what is it with you and DRAGONNNNNS ??? ;)
January 15th, 2010, 07:58 AM
I have just looked at the last pieces in your threat and they already made a huge impression on me. If you have some ideas about the last piece of what the skeleton will handle, maybe it would be suitable if he handles it with both hands. Keep doing such nice works. - G
January 15th, 2010, 09:00 AM
And what is it with you and DRAGONNNNNS ??? ;)
I married one. (just kidding dear :S) Seriously I think they are easier to draw then horses, are more imaginative and last but not least I've got one in my Ace pic and sort of one in my Tower pic, so it would be another way to link our cards:)
Don't worry about my cards, they got my full attention.
Great reference pics Nic, that should help. Now go to sleep.
January 16th, 2010, 05:24 PM
Wanted to post this yesterday but spent the evenning at a show. Oi Polloi, heard of 'em ? Finally came to Montréal, lookin' forward to a big night, rather disappointing actually. Anyway, so I'm posting yesterday's stuff today.
Tried for judgement but with that Valkyrie, to get that "beautiful" back into the equation... Lost most of the "terrible" though. Recycled some of the earlier thumbs... Chose a shitty pose for this one as well, kept goin' with it for comparison but ya it's not working. I dunno, I'm not feelin' it. Nothing seems right or remotely good so far and this is pretty much my deadline for starting on the final images... Bugger.
January 17th, 2010, 06:53 AM
Never heard of oi Polloi, maybe google them later.
You're on a good track Nic. Hard to choose, they all have pros and cons. I like the female character over a male one. The beauty is absolutely there, the terrible can come in the fire round her face, the horns and the shoulder armor. Liking the armor of B and C, great boots. Also the shoulder gear looks very good with the dragons;). Maybe change the way she holds the horn, now it looks like she doesn't know what to do with it or wants to give it away. I like the cloth curling around her in -A, A and D, but fire or smoke around her face and coming from her hair is also strong. You could combine the two!. Some cool angry horns give her the viking touch.
There is still enough time but I think next week we should try to have the basics for all the characters ready.
January 17th, 2010, 07:56 AM
The design elements are good. I think the problem with this one is in the stance. She holds her arms so close to her body and that makes an unintresting silhouette. So at first glance her torso looks like a bulky ball. Try and make some depth between her and her hands or maybe change the viewpoint.
January 17th, 2010, 01:45 PM
Im still rendering this one out and Im working on adding a Nords looking gold necklace. Also gonna add a tattoo on her shoulder thats nordslooking like a runestone inscription or something. Might add a owl flying or maybe a seagull. Any Ideas?
January 17th, 2010, 06:52 PM
Ok now thers just some stuff to add before I go to color. :)
January 17th, 2010, 07:51 PM
b-man watch the values toward the center of the boobs. I'm not sure if they're hanging right for that particular dynamic, they look a little stiff.
January 18th, 2010, 08:01 AM
Raoul Duke - Thanks man! Im gonna try and fix that. :)
Trying to ad some nords looking designs. the runetext says Fortune, but in swedish. :) Also her her tatoo on her arm says happiness.
Im still thinkling of adding some bird.
January 18th, 2010, 09:48 AM
Your works are fleshing out really nice mates.
B-man this is so beautiful!!!The sea can maybe offer some great reflection to add to the wind and calm
Great, i feel the air
t i m
January 18th, 2010, 11:40 PM
Awesome progress guys, and thanks for the advice too! I should be able to post some more stuff soon. Just wanted to pop in and dish out some kudos, let ya guys knows I'm still around. :)
January 19th, 2010, 02:09 AM
Tom : Oi Polloi have some decent albums and some great songs but, all their live albums suck balls.. And now I know first hand. The singer spends more time preaching to you between songs than they do playin' their set !!! I guess it must be difficult to contain yourself when you have all the wisdom of the universe cramped-up in your skull...
For the hands on the previous one well, ya that's what I was goin' for : her giving the horn to the querent ;), like in the text right ? Which I didn't like to much because it was taking power away from the character but then again how close do I wanna stay to this version of the tarot story and all that... But you're right though (Björn as well), visually it was week and as I mentioned the general pose was all wrong anyway so I hit failure right there...
I thought you might appreciate the shoulder-pads ;). I don't think I'm gona be able to keep them though, at least not for Judgement.
Alright, I wanted to get more done before posting but it's been a while so I figured I'ld send 'er as is to keep you in the loop. Steppin' away from this for a day or two did me some good I think, come back in with a little distance. I kinda like this one, no details yet but the vibe is good, set-up is clear, I'm gona run with it.
Kept the female version, floating up top sorta menacingly. This means I lose the rib-caged expanding-armoured dude which I liked but hey it's better this way I think. The horn is now huge and slung across her back (not sure I'm gona keep it that way but I don't hate it either). Big raven wings, figure out the suit, oh and I'm gona have a go at giving her death-ray eyes... Ok not really... hehe But they're gona be like spot lights that peer down at the querent-viking guy at the bottom maybe. I dunno if I'm gona darken the head and flash-light the eyes, or have it coming down from behind her head or whatever really, but that's the vibe I'm aiming for.
Hmmm, oh and to make things interesting I was thinking of having sorta ghost-wolves running out from behind her right at the Viking dude, they would symbolise them past dark-things that the querent is supposed come to terms with. I'll see how that exploration goes. I rather liked the original skeleton-ghosts swerving around on the first idea, but thought more human forms wouldn't help the composition here so... WOLVES ! See, Tom has his dragons, I have corny-howling-at-the-moon-logo-t-shirt animals hehe
Alright, gona play with her costume a little.
January 19th, 2010, 01:13 PM
B-Man I am sorry to say that I am liking the sketch more than the value image. She looks very flat atm. I say try adding a dramatic lighting to describe her forms better. As Raoul said, she is looking weird now. I love the design though, especially the kite-idea.
Rambozo I like the design and how you placed the characters in the small frame. BUT make the wiking on the lower left VERY simple. I even find the hair too detailed and distracting. I would suggest going with the mood of the backlight here and making it the protagonist.
January 19th, 2010, 05:13 PM
kingkostas - Thanks bro! So glad you like it.
Nic - I like the Idea with the wolfs. but you really dont ned it in the image. Start with it this way and if you feel something is missing add it later. :)
Janos - Thanks for your input man! :) I dont see it as that flat on my monitor. I should probably calibrate it and have another look. Cheers!
I hope its not flat. I kinda like this palet its kinda romantic and inviting. :) Migt need to finish this soon got another card to work on aswell. :S
January 21st, 2010, 01:22 AM
Björn : Quite right, the wolves aren't needed ;). I have a tendency to try and cram to much stuff into each piece hehe. So it's better you tell me this now haha Besides, like you said : I can come back and add them later if they're needed and there's time left. They might have looked cool though ;) Then again, half-chance they just might have clogged up the composition, all boiling down to how I managed to pull it off.
Still, I've done a real quick once-over with a few wolves misting-down from behind the Valkyrie to give you a slight idea of what I meant (maybe too quick, you can barely see them).
As Janos pointed out, I find the render on your Ace rather flat unfortunately (the character as well as the sky). Might be a question of monitors though, I go onto my girlfriend's mac and my pics come out darker and with less definition than on my screen so you won't be able to make it perfect for everyone I guess. All I can suggest is adding a few layers of darker values to have things pop out, maybe bringing the attention more to her face or the Pentacle by having these layers get lighter towards the center. Maybe you could add some overlayed-knot-work in the sky, that might help pop things out I dunno.
I'ld work these values along her left leg (our right) as well to have it pop out at the viewer more. Right now I "know" that's what the leg is doing but I don't "feel" it that much. Her breasts still seem a little unnatural as well, although by adding the necklace I find you've partially solved that impression. Have you tried adding some extra Viking-gear ? She feels more "nude" than Norse to me at the moment.
Hmmm, which reminds me : how are we gona be goin' about our frames for these cards ? I think it would be cool if we all had the same "family" of boarders. A simple name in a frame with knot-work to the left maybe ? A full knot-work boarder ? I have no idea, just trying to think ahead a little.
Janos : true that. I want the Viking to be very black and white in the end to show the contrast of the light beaming down on him. But I guess I often just "build" the character completely and then go back and try and take away some of the info (losing the details where the shadow ends up being etc.)... Which is a ridiculous way of working isn't it :( I'll try and keep it more in mind as I plodge along here, cheers.
Postin' my daily progress. Nothin' psycho, but moving along slowly at least (Yes, that is breast-clutching-raven-armour...For now at any rate hehe). I'll restart workin' on the Ace of Swords soon as well.
Tim Tom, how are them cards coming along ?
January 21st, 2010, 03:01 AM
Nice cards here!
January 21st, 2010, 04:10 AM
Just wanna chime in and say that you guys are doing really great so far!..
January 21st, 2010, 02:11 PM
Bjorn, Suhweeet drawing mate, its very vibrant and she really gives the feeling she's floating in the air, nice. The kite is a great catch and very well executed. Must agree though with Nic she could use more Viking Nordic elements as in clothes, armor maybe just some more tattoos and jewelry could be enough, I don't know. Don't know about here being flat but the breasts feel a little stiff. Two minor other thing I noticed are here right hip (viewers left) its going overboard when you draw a line from her right leg up to her hip. Her other leg feels a little tiny, did a little adjusting hope you don't mind.
Nic, great progress, seems you finally are on the right track. Actually dig the wolves, hope you keep them. I think the hair/fire dissolving into the back is the best option. The guy on the left is distracting a little, could be only the face thats bothering. Maybe a helmet or only seeing hair would be better.
Yeah about the frames. I don't know if we are suppose to draw them but I see a lot of other teams doing so. Maybe in the coming days we can focus a little on that too.
I'm working on the Tower, hope this one is better then the former one.
January 21st, 2010, 03:30 PM
Tommoy, I got logged in to say, That Tower rocks my boat! Totally! :)
January 21st, 2010, 07:23 PM
yeah seriously. good tower... good ... good .... tOWEERRRa aAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAArgh.
January 21st, 2010, 10:55 PM
Tom : the rendering is coming along nicely, love the colours. The left hand (to our right) seemed a little wonky, the thumb in particular, so I did a real quick paint over. By moving the hammer head slightly up to make room for the thumb metacarpal where it joins at the trapezium, and then moving up and twisting the thumb slightly I find it looks much more natural. Not a big difference really but I think it helps. Then again he's some stone-golem-mountain-man-creature-thing so, what's natual about that right ? ;)
January 22nd, 2010, 03:34 AM
Artofinca & seba_boi : thanks guys :)
Daily progress. It appears I've screwed the wing a little, I'll fix it up tomorrow. That's a wolf-skin cape thing off her right shoulder (our left) but at this scale it looks like a whole bunch of f+ck all. And you can't see the knot-work on the thighs either, I wanted it to be subtle but at this size it's invisible... lovely.
The horn is starting to bug me hangin' at the back like that. Well not the position so much as the fact that it's so big... It sorta jumbles into the character a little I find. Comments ? I think I'll give it back some of it's curve, it seemed to be less of a problem with the top un-straightened, more obvious that it was one object, easier to read the continuity.
January 22nd, 2010, 09:33 AM
Nic, thanks for pointing out the thumb. Bettering it I noticed the hammerhead wasn't placed correctly too. The Tower still doesn't feel right to me but I can't lay my finger on it.
Been working on the Ace of Wands, it also stands for creativity, so I've given him a very creative saddle:)
On your image, be careful with over detailing her wardrobe. At this point I can hardly see what she's doing with her arms. I guess they're hanging straight against her body. Her whole attitude feels a little stiff, maybe letting her hold the spear or let her point at the viking would be an option. On the horn I would say it could be a little smaller and more diagonal hanging on her back.
January 23rd, 2010, 12:28 PM
January 24th, 2010, 04:31 PM
How are the cards coming along guys? Don't forget the deadline is in sight:dead:
Wanted to do more, just for fun:) Probably wont finish these.
January 24th, 2010, 09:24 PM
Tom : I like the fact you're exploring the sculpted-wood possibility on the saddle for your ace. I really hope you find something nice 'cause I reckon that's a great idea.
Wasn't planning on posting just yet, but since you asked : here's progress ;) Wasted all day yesterday tryin' to glaze some colour onto this. Not a technique that works for me unfortunately, then again I haven't had much practice I guess. So, although this isn't what I had in mind this is the best I could pull out of it and with the time trickling away I'm gona finish her up over this base.
At first I wanted the wolves to be ghosts remember ? So that's the way I started drawin' 'em in B&W but then at some point while colouring I figured we were lacking a general common "feel" to our cards, like we seem to have gone in our own different directions. So I thought alright, maybe I could make these wolves like smoking fire-ball type things to tie in with Tom's Tower card a little more, usin' his blues and the fire at the top. (No, I haven't pulled that off, I know I know. I'll either have to go back to the lighter ghost idea in hopes of saving time, or redo the wolves with darker bodies and make the underlying flames and sparks pop out, hopefully), This is probably a good part of why the glazing isn't working on that bit : changed the idea mid-run... Anyway...
I'm not happy with it, but I'll have to move on soon. Changed the horn around but you can barely see it anymore so I'll have to shove it in her hand or something, maybe floating in-between both characters, glowing or something. A few more details all around, clear things up some...
***edit : thanks for suggesting moving the horn Tom. I'd thought of it earlier but figured it would get in the way of the wing-action and simply discarded the possibility. Seeing it rendered showed me sometimes looks are more important than logic ;) and it was the right and simple thing to do here hehe***
So, with just about 7 days left now (already ???), work left to do on Judgement and a whole new Ace to illustrate from scratch, it's gona be a long hard week !!!
Comments, ideas ?
January 25th, 2010, 04:06 AM
Oh wow, that Judgment card is a pure winner!... :D :D :D
The Tower is awesome and so is the Devil!... The pic with the girl who wants a new chicken is also ace!... This group is on a freakin' roll!...
January 25th, 2010, 05:06 AM
First of all Nic, that's AWESOME. The warm versus cold color choice works great. And what a vicious looking wolf pac, love it! But be sure the wolves don't take over the leading role. Miss Judgement has to rule. Still not clear what her left arm is doing, why not let her point at the dude below? Also the horn looses its strength, it could easily be something else. It would be a shame but maybe it would be better to replace the two wolves on the upper left under the wing to give back the horn, I don't know. One minor other thing is the man's face, it's distracting. But overall, wonderful job, can't wait to see it finished.
You're right about the time is running out on us. I hope you, Tim and Bjorn will be able to finnish the two cards next week. Don't forget we also need time for the presentation.
January 25th, 2010, 05:53 AM
MAN, congratulation, wolves are MAKE THIS PICTURE FOR YOU!!! It became a strong and massive mass from an instable space! go on aces!
(just a suggetion> examine this dragonrider card, the dwarf"s (if its a dwarf) leg is different from the body, too long i think. And its a hard part, where the dragons back turn in our direction, you should make some study to find the right form ot it i think, make it from clay, or a basic 3d cg model...these are just pins in a haystack,so its o.k. at a first blink.
January 25th, 2010, 09:25 PM
Damn guys looking awesome! Nic those wolves kickass! Kicking ass!
t i m
January 25th, 2010, 11:08 PM
Nic those wolves are outrageous. Tommoy amazing stuff! I'll be done by the deadline ;)
January 25th, 2010, 11:31 PM
The Judgment card is indeed incredible but something got lost in the coloring process, the B&W looked so much better to me. The tower indeed turning out EPIC! You guys are doing great cheers!
January 26th, 2010, 07:44 AM
heres an early sketch of the chariot card. Im gonna try and make him more like a nature god and the bears will have some more characteristics and Im gonna make it all look dreamlike and deep foresty.
And for the ace of pentacles Im gonna try and add some armour and clothing. also gonna try and make it less flat. And if I find the time try and fix the colors so it ties in with the other cards. :S I hope I can live up to the Ace Hole standard.
I'll be done by deadline too so no worries there. :D
edit: Just thinking out loud. Looking at other illustrated cards and how they tie it together, I see that Magic the gathering uses color themes most of the time. But in our case it would be enough with just "nords/viking" theme. There is a deadline and other things in life taking up lots of time. I think its good if we could at least make a Acehole team frame that tie in with "nords/viking". Keep rocking mates! You are my heroes!
Edit2: So edit agin. thought I use this post some more. :D
Oki so I was soaking in Tommoy's crit from a few posts back and he had some great solutions on my ace card. :D So I did what he sugested and feel much better. i also added something to make it less naked. :)
t i m
January 26th, 2010, 12:57 PM
Love the progress guys, the finish line is almost in sight!
So yea, I changed my mind again, after looking at all your guys work and my intial piece, they just didn't fit, color, style, they weren't meshing. This will end up being the final, promise!
The Ace is coming along too, no worries guys.
January 26th, 2010, 01:20 PM
Tim - The composition in this latest version is not as good as the other. As for colors you could always desaturate the old one and go over it with a color layer and overlay. :)
January 26th, 2010, 05:18 PM
seba_boi & jozulus : Cheers ! :)
Niva : Ya I didn't manage to quite pull off the colours like I thought, but it's something I can work with. I'll just put as much time as I can on it and juggle with the Ace.
Tom : You're quite right about the wolves vs. Judgement importance : I noticed that as well but I think (hope) I'm gona be able to draw the attention further to the character with a final layer of details in full white/black (I haven't used full-out white or black anywhere as of yet, so that should giver her much more contrast that the other elements... That's the theory at least haha).
And for the arm and horn, it's like I mentioned : I have to think of something else because with the wolves the horn really does disappear. This is the first thing I'm gona have to deal with. The Viking's face though, I believe you're not the only one to mention, but I find it quite a bit more distracting when the face isn't there. I keep thinking "what the hell happened to him ?". I'll probably go back and remove some further details from him in the end but I want to tackle the other problems first as I find them to be more urgent.
Björn : I hadn't thought of bears. That could be pretty cool actually, but I'ld say you're gona want to at the very least put them into some sort of a harnesses so we can understand that they are indeed chariot-pulling animals. An actual chariot might be important in this pic (and could be nice to design), but I think if you come up with some intricate harnesses that clearly show the bears are load-pulling animals then that could work as well. Maybe the chariot itself is somewhere behind the trees type of thing hehe.
There was this old vodka (?) pinup painting they ran in magazines here in the early 90s with a sword-wielding-chick being pulled by polar bears I wanted to post here as an example but I couldn't find it... Can't even remember what the brand was (was it vodka ?). I did find these pics though in the process so I figured I'ld post the ref's in case they might spark an idea for you :
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/bear_cavalry.jpg <--- you're gona have to copy paste this one for it to work... Just noticed that.
***edit : found the pics, Finally ! Rumple Minze. Ok so she isn't being pulled by a bear but rather riding it... Anyway, here's what came to mind :
Tim : I have to agree with Björn, your other Death "from above" was immensely superior in my eyes. The composition, the armour. If the colours are an issue then you can glaze a layer over and change things around some. It really would be a shame to waste that version I reckon.
January 26th, 2010, 06:17 PM
Bjorn, I agree with Nic it would be better if there's a chariot in it, pulled by the bears would be cool. That can be pretty amazing, look at the reference Nic pulled out of his sleeve. The Ace of pentacles is coming along great, I understand you still are going to add armor/clothing.
Tim, I wonder why you've chosen too leave your former Death, I thought you were on the right track. But of course its your call. There are a few thing about this card, first of all it being less original, but it could be you have some ideas to make it stand out. There are also issues with the horse, I think its too small, ore Death is too big ether way. Armor looks good though.
Besides working on my Ace and Tower cards I did some work on the frame design, will come back on that later.
Keep up the good work peeps.
t i m
January 26th, 2010, 09:24 PM
Thanks for the input guys, I'll see what I can do with the birdseye view to spice it up a and finish that one off. I guess I was digging the orange sky. No worries :)
January 26th, 2010, 09:41 PM
Nic - thanks for the sugestions. Im gonn a try and put him on a chariot. Great reference aswell, thanks for that. That peppermint snaps add is awesome gonna try and find a bottle somwhere. :D
Tom - Thanks man, If time lets me add more armor and nords looking design I will. Right now I need to concentrate on making the chariot look worthy. :D Deadlines closing in fast! Its awesome that you find time to pick up two more cards and still be able to work on a frame! :D Impressive!
Tim - Its your call man, Either way I think you will make a great peice!
Shit, look at the time! I need sleep.
January 27th, 2010, 04:04 AM
Tim : Quick post before hitting the sac. I was thumbing some stuff for my new Ace and had an idea for the horn on Judgement. I think it might be cool but I'll try and work it a little before I post anything.
But to get to the point : as I was sketching away at my stuff I had an idea for Death's sickle. Now I'm not so hot on the sickle idea because it's the typical reaper-death bit right ? But I reckon you're rather set on it so it's all goo. Now I noticed you hadn't actually drawn it in in any of the pics yet, and with that in mind I figured : it would be cool if the sickle was matched to the armour, you know, like a Vutton bag to Gucci shoes right ? (no, I don't know what either of those look like... But I'm guessing it's a veeeery fashionable combination haha).
Ok, so basically have the sickle mimic the raven somehow, specifically the head. They have beautiful skulls and lookin' at mine I suddenly saw some kind of a sickle right there. Righ, so amongst these thumbs I've pulled out two quickies to show you what I mean. I don't fancy them as final designs or anything, I just wanted to have something to show you, see if maybe this could be a path that suits your fancy. If not then it's all good, I'm still gona like ravens ;) hehehe
January 27th, 2010, 09:32 AM
So I redid the chariot. Amd as usual Im alot happier. :) Theres always poop that needs to come out befor something less poop. Im gonna work on this and render it and also work on the values alot more. Tom is it ok if I try and paint a sky that loks something like the one in the tower peice to make some concistency?
January 27th, 2010, 11:13 AM
It's totally up to you Bjorn.
I did some attempt for border design.
January 27th, 2010, 12:12 PM
Im not a big fan of tribals but I like the one with tribals and black in it the most. It really make the frame efect.the other one is kinda dull. Im gonna try and come up with some frame Ideas too.
So heres some progress on the chariot.
Btw that deamon is awesome! :D
January 27th, 2010, 03:44 PM
Hardworking with 4 days to go! :D
Im not sure I could redo the whole chariot again but if there is huge disturbing errors, please let me know :S
Edit: A friend of mine pointed out his right shoulder so I tried fixing it. It still need some work, Im gonna let it sink in and work more on it later.
January 27th, 2010, 05:33 PM
Tom : Diggin' the devil. The gear might be slightly too medieval-continental Europe perhaps (?), but it's too early to tell. Great colours and I'm lovin' the way the axe is flaming up at the blade : should be a good reason to have some menacing lights/shadows cast on the body and face etc. Cool. If you have time to finish 'er up this should be a nice addition to the collection. I don't remember what the story behind the devil card was though, what's the low down on this baby ?
For the frames I'll try and cook something up on my end as well. At the moment I find the ones you've posted to bulky, thick, solid. They draw my attention away from the card itself. Between the two I prefer the bottom one (the grey one that has what would appear to be leather strands braided all 'round) as I think it would work better in this regard : we could lighten it up a little and tone down it's visual impact.
Björn : I think this version of the chariot works better :) You might be able to keep the woods in the BG (previous pic) *** etc., but it's important that we see the bears being frantic, pushing, struggling, maybe slightly against each other as that is the whole point of the card : the querent taming both of his quarrelling inner-sides and pushing these opposing energies in one controlled direction. Good hehe I also like the fact that the polar bear is banged-up : a further visual reminder that the bears have been at each other. Excellent touch although I would say go with it : have them scars dig in DEEP, have an ear half-ripped off. Hell I don't know, a f+cked-up eye maybe, split lip, not necessarily BLOODY just old wounds, all little details that would really make this look sick dude :) I would suggest making the bears slightly larger as well, so we can really get the perspective of the whole scene, that they're really hurling themselves right at us.
*** = edit : just noticed the Cloudy sky in the latest version, light trying to beem down through the clouds. This could work as well. Like you said might be an extra way of tying our cards in together. In other words : forget what I just said about the trees ;)***
Alright, I'll get back to you guys with some sketchies of boarders and the Ace ! DAMN that schedule !!
January 28th, 2010, 07:43 AM
Nic - I could scar them a bit more but Its kanda hard. Bears have a lot of fur that covers alot of it. I could add naked paches where the fur been riped off and healed but It might end up making em look sick :D. I made em bigger and It made a huge difference! Thanks. I should have you around all the time when Im working! :D
I maped out some color on this peice. Tried to tie it together with the tower a bit and I think I was fairly successful. :) Im gonna give it some workover and try and fix stuff that look weird and replace hues that dont match. Im starting to feel confident about my cards. And with the deadline in sight Its a nice feeling.
January 28th, 2010, 05:33 PM
I didn't get to work on this much yesterday unfortunately : wasted my afternoon at the hospital gettin' the vaccines for the Vietnam gig (which set me back a few as well...) and then when I got home my girlfriend's dog died so... Well, managed a little drawin' but barely.
Björn : I suppose it could be a challenge. But hey that's half the fun right ? ;) I'll admit with the deadline commin' in maybe it's better to leave those details until later in case you run out of time (or out completely if you ain't feelin' it of course). And glad to help, we're teammates after all hehe
Here are a few scar refs if you end up leaning that way (not the best but I didn't want to waste much time searching as they might not be useful to you) :
I patched together quick boarder ideas. They're nothing very nice at the moment, more like trails to explore or leads I should say. Hey it's a contribution at least hehe Still, here are the 2 that came out with any potential :
January 28th, 2010, 08:09 PM
That first frame is kinda hard too see. I like a clean look. Isnt it too much with a boat? :D Thanks for the reference Im gonna try and work more on scars. and also Im gonna try and add some shoulder armour too the chick. I still see her as a pacifist though. :S
heres my idea for frame it is the same twise, I just wanted to see how it looked on different cards. :)
January 28th, 2010, 09:54 PM
Björn : only few Norse were actually raiding warriors ;) You don't HAVE to suit her in armour, my concern lies more with the visual references, elements typically associated with the look we're goin' with. Maybe a shoulder-slung cape with a brooch exposing half of her chest, maybe a pouch (we are talking pentacles here after all hehe ), maybe braided hair and Mjolnir pendant. It can be anything really : I ended up redrawing Judgement's horn entirely based on an nose architectural element. Was inspired by a roof element, fooled around with it, a helmet popped in there somewhere and although you can't really spot them right-up anymore, I ended up with a new horn -Hmmm, should upload a pic I guess- Not finished of course, I'll do that once I drop it into the pic properly and play with the lighting off of it, maybe give it an inner fire, but still it was good fun.
I've gone and found you some more refs of Nordic style clothes, without armour ;) (fuck I'm getting annoying with all these links aren't I? Just easier with pictures than words sometimes).
I agree about the boarders though : my drakkar one was way "to much" but I posted it 'cause I figured maybe the boat could influence a future choice. The wood texture maybe, a dragon's head somewhere, dunno really. I kind of liked the fact that the other one doesn't draw too much attention though.
Maybe we could use a single "box" with the card name, maybe something Klimtesque or like the top bit of the Walküre poster I uploaded ?
t i m
January 28th, 2010, 10:12 PM
I like Nic's first design, and B-man's.
Oh here's some progress on the ace guys. I finished the "birdseye" death, which you guys seemed to like better, plus lord knows I suck at drawing horses:)
January 29th, 2010, 01:58 AM
Daily progress... Been screwin' around with the sword mostly to get a general vibe I like, these are the two that came out the best I think. Gona aim for something in that direction, but I haven't found a set-up I like. Tried a few more, pulling magical-sword out of chest and the blood and guts routine, on a throne, fight scenes, hey look-at-me-I'm-one-tuff-yet-nonchalant-mother-f+cker pose... I've included one exploration of a fight scene here as I think I'm gona go with something dynamic (a fight scene that is), and I actually liked how the early, blotchy sky came out in this one (although I now see you can't tell with the giant covering it up... haha oh well). Anyway, whatever. More work on it tomorrow.
I read somewhere the deadline was Jan. 31rst at 23:59, that sounds just about right. And just about close as hell as well !
January 29th, 2010, 10:25 AM
Did another atempt for the border, I think it must be possible to make something interesting regarding our subject. Those Vikings did some mean wood and stone carving. In the corners we could draw the four elements or something.
I've made a overview of all our cards, looks good I think:).
In the Tower card I changed the dragon for a ship, it links nicely with Bjorns Ace card. If I want to use the Devil card I have to make a lesser arcana so I will try to push out the princess of cups tomorrow. Work to do for all of us.
January 29th, 2010, 11:11 AM
I have very limited time now befor the deadline. :(
I really like the links Nic and Tom that frame is great. Maybe it could be thinner. But the carving is a great idea. Good work on that. Im happy too se the early designs for the Cups and Swords and even though its early I can see the potential in both of them. :D
Anyway. I'll try and work some more on the Ace of pentacle. If I find more time to work on Im gonna. If not this will have to do. They are 450 x 775 pxl. I can post higher res if needed. :)
January 29th, 2010, 12:05 PM
Hey B-man super cool cards,these bears look terrific. waiting to see all your works gathered. good luck man!
t i m
January 29th, 2010, 01:37 PM
Nice borders Tom!
January 29th, 2010, 05:06 PM
Tom : great idea. The wood-carving-bit has definitely got my vote. Do you suggest putting the card name in the lower framing, integrating it to the "carving" then ? What about our handles and team name ? I think the team should probably be seen somewhere, although I'm not sure this is asked of us (?).
I'm also not sure you would have to come up with a minor arcana if you include the devil ? These are extra cards, bonus points, so I think we could do as many as little as we want ?
January 29th, 2010, 06:00 PM
Bjorn, That Chariot card looks great! Good job on the bears and those clouds made me shut the windows. Maybe metal up his helmet a little.
Nic, about the frame we can make a wood carved sign with the name of each card, maybe one of you can design this, I'm no good with fonts. It could also be placed in the lower frame, but I think its nicer the other way standing on its own. Yeah, I was thinking on how to integrate our teamlogo. There may be not enough room for both the cardname and the logo unless the logo is very small. So I was thinking on why not put the logo on the flipside. The cards need a back don't they. And for that I was thinking of making those German helmets into viking ones. We can just present them along with the actual work.
I'm not sure what the policy is concerning the balance between major and minor cards but I already started on the princess card. Maybe I can finish it in time.
January 29th, 2010, 10:15 PM
I think logo is overkill. Lets do the cardnames and let the rest speaks for itself. I mean, in the finals we have our logo in the polls so theres no need too repeat it on every card. You se what Im getting at. It would bee too much info on the frame. lets keep it too a minimum. Anyway thats just what I think.
t i m
January 30th, 2010, 03:31 AM
B-man - Finished cards look great!
Nic - You and me buddy, right down to the wire, wouldn't have it any other way..Ya PRESSSUUUURE!
Tom - You sir are a machine, 'nother awesome sketch, love the border design, kudos to you for keeping this machine going.
I'm cool with the no logo, doesn't seem to fit into our card's aesthetic. If it could be done cool, is it necessary?
January 30th, 2010, 09:11 PM
Tim : no joke right !!? ;) Nah we'll make it man, not the stressful way I wanted to go about it but we'll make it.
Tom : like Tim says hehe
Also as far as the team logo goes ya youre probably right. If we don't have to put it on the front side, then I'ld be quite happy to simply haveit along in our final post somewhere. And I'ld love a viking helmet version hahaha But I very much doubt I'll have the time to participate on that one.
Alright, a quick update just so you don't think I'm flaking out. I've run into yet more problems at home yesterday so I couldn't get a minute of work done... Long story short, spent the whole night into this morning at the only vet-emergency on the island with my blood-spraying dog... Fun fun times. What a g+d-damned week...
So that means I've had to cut down on my projected card here. Thought up a scene where the ace is just about to chop off the head of a black-snake-dragon thing. I think it would have turned out nice if I could match the product up to the idea, but no time no time.. So, simple pose and simple background to make sure I hit the deadline.
It's my fault really, I shouldn't have expected to be able to set our last week aside entirely for the ChoW. You always think hey I've got a few days left right ? But there's always, always something that screws you over in the end. It's almost like karma, if you believe in that type of thing. But with this version I will finish on time, make sure of that hehe
January 30th, 2010, 09:41 PM
Shit man Im sorry to hear about your dog! Is he/she alright? :S
You know Team-chow isnt that important, I rather see that your dog gets the love he/she needs.
January 30th, 2010, 10:01 PM
Björn : thanks man. Ya well she's still there, they're keepin' her for 48 hours. Still leaking blood but apparently things are gettin' better, less blood & less often, no vomiting anymore. They called earlier, they say it's encouraging but not out of the woods yet type of thing. Should turn out alright, not as stressed now. But it's not like I can do anything about it so, might as well try and work on this right ?
January 31st, 2010, 12:01 AM
TEAM CHOW III :: TAROT
Hello boys and girls!
Okay, trying to keep it simple this time.
Deadline is Midnight on the 31st, anywhere in the world. I will be putting up the poll when I wake up the next day, so there is a bit of leeway, but remember if you push it you might miss it.
Please have one person from your team post all your cards. You do not need to post wips. To make it easier for me, if you could please make one image with all the cards in it (side by side) so that I can use it for the poll, that would be awesome.
Good luck everyone!
Alright alright. Who's gona do the posting for the final thread ? I'm gona be workin' on mine probably late tomorrow night, "down to the wire" like Tim says hehe So I don't mind posting if need be. Just make sure your images are all setup nice and final-like and send 'em to me through email. I'll rig-up a one-shot image like Daestwen asked for.
If someone else wants to do it that's fine by me as well hehe
January 31st, 2010, 03:02 AM
Good luck guys!...
January 31st, 2010, 06:11 AM
Im cool with sending it to Nic. How are we gonna do this frame thing?
January 31st, 2010, 06:46 AM
Sorry to hear about your dog Nic, hope he's gonna be fine again.
Yeah about starting too late, I always do that, thinking I'll make it. This Team Chow is one of the rare occasions where I started early, I think because its just too much fun. Good to see you still try to make the ace. I've send you guys the border, found out its not exactly the right size but with a little tweaking it has to fit. Is anyone thinking about the name tags already, Bjorn, would you be able to make them for all the cards, let me know.
How is it going Tim with your cards, let me know if you need some help.
Nic, its fine by me jou post the finals, I'll send them by email.
Here's my last minute princess of Cups.
January 31st, 2010, 12:33 PM
Tom that card looks great! <3
Also sent you guys an e-mail with the cardnames fixed on the frame. Hope there was no problems downloading it from my link. :)
t i m
January 31st, 2010, 05:49 PM
Quick question guys, how big in pixels do you want the finals?
January 31st, 2010, 06:25 PM
Alright. So I got all of Tom's and Björn's files. The .rar screwed up for some reason but reloaded it and everything is in order. Got the tags in there as well so that's made things simple, cheers Björn ;)
Tim : I for one was looking at a final-post height of about 900 pixels without borders. The cards Björn sent me are 2192px with the border (the .psd versions that is), and Tom also sent me huge cards so I can play around with them even more than mine hehe So, I'll probably end up bringing them all down to the 750-900px high range and see how things look. You can send me the .psd if you like, if not a larger-ish jpg would be good so that I can scale all of our cards down to a common height and have them all stay crisp.
Tom has also sent me his "Lovers" card although he says it's far from finished and didn't know if we should post it. Figured I should ask you guys, should we ? We have plenty of cards as it is so we're safe there -as long as Tim and I finish up in time but I'm sure that' shouldn't be an issue (hell Tom's given us 2 bonus ones already!).
t i m
January 31st, 2010, 06:42 PM
Sounds good, Ill post my finals at 900 x 523 before borders. I didn't get a copy of the border, so if someone wants to slap them on there that'd be much appreciated. Almost 5pm now Chicago time, finals will be up later this evening.
January 31st, 2010, 06:46 PM
Tim : sent you a private message !
t i m
February 1st, 2010, 02:24 AM
Got the message guys, you guys are the best thanks for the support!
Allright duders, I'm calling it before my eyes fall out. :)
w/ border 950 x 614
February 1st, 2010, 03:23 AM
Daaaamn ! It's done !!
It took me a lot longer than I expected just getting the actual post done, but she's away !
Great workin' with you guys. Here's what I managed to do with the Ace of Swords and Judgement. F+ck me that horn looks soooo not-dropped-in-there-afterwards, it's like it was painted into the pic from the begging, right ? right ?... hehe Yaa I chose to spend the extra time on the Ace so... I had to cut somewhere :(. I'm bummed I didn't push 'em further but I enjoyed the experience.
(and my dog is home now, so she should be doin' fine real soon)
*edit: for those of you who are interested, the rune on the Ace's helmet is Dagaz, which is supposed to symbolise awakening, awareness, clarity and a good moment to test things out. Which is why I chose it : it's pretty damn close to the Ace of Swords meanning. I first thought of Kenaz, "the beacon" but it looks like sh+t so ;)
February 1st, 2010, 03:41 AM
Okay, no extension.
Poll will be going up on schedule when I wake up in the morning. So i would say between 8-10 hours from now. I'll post a "Hour to Deadline" warning while I do the preparation to put up the poll.
For those that aren't done, or want a couple extra days, you can take them. BUT, you will miss those days from the poll and you won't get any extra votes or anything.
For those of you who have already finished and posted, feel free to do touchups under the same rules. You, however, won't lose votes, because i will simply replace the old image with the new, updated one, so you'll keep all your old votes.
Sound fair everyone?
February 1st, 2010, 06:21 AM
Great job guys, I'm proud of the end results and our work as a team, it was a lot of fun and as a bonus we get some nice work for our portfolios! I think the cards are well connected and overall have good quality. Special kudos' for Nic and Tim who had to struggle to get the work done in the end. The Ace of Swords and the Ace of Cups both are fantastic, my compliments! Thanks for the great teamwork guys!
February 2nd, 2010, 05:58 AM
Glad to hear your dog is feeling better Nic.
I had a lot of fun this team-chow. Im glad I got be part of a stable and talented team. :) And made some great new art-friends in the process.
The Ace of Swords and the Ace of Cups looks awesome. Thanks guys!
t i m
February 3rd, 2010, 12:12 AM
Absolutely, this challenge was a real treat! It was a ton of fun to work with all of you guys. Our dedication, teamwork, and communication made this challenge a total blast. Looking forward to doing another with you guys sometime! Ass pats all around :asspat::asspat::asspat:
February 3rd, 2010, 02:51 PM
I gave the Ace of Swords another layer last evenning seein' as how I wasn't really satisfied with it and there were a few things just poppin' out at me. Not that much of a difference right ? But I think the little things just pull it out that much more. Figured I'ld send it up here even if it won't go to polls. Hell we've been at these cards for a month now hehe Again, great experience this Team Chow, glad to have worked with you guys.
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