I can't draw from imagination, and a stlye Question.

[ZenzybaR]

I've got two problems.
The first and main problem is drawing from imagination. It's like i can't do it. I start and everything starts to go wrong, so i keep trying to work through it but it either completely fails, or i end up with something terrible.
I know in time i should improve, but if i can't draw anything new cause i can't draw from imagination then i'm screwed.
Is it something to do with planning, or things to think about when doing it. I never get the urge to adorn my characters with guns and skulls or anything but swords and light amour, and i've never gotten that far.
I figured doing constant studies till i'm better would be good, but now i think i just shot myself in the foot.


The second is style. I figured that after a while when i'm better i'd see my style, but i think i'm starting to see it, and i don't like it. If it is my style it looks stupid.
Can i change it with time or is it a thing where my skills are low so my style looks like trash? Or can i just move towards a style now and make that my main and then branch off when i'm comfy in it?
And how would i know if i even have a style?

Edit: Another thing, how long is good to spend on a single study. I think i spend too little time on anything. I breeze through most things and i don't know if its bad to do so all the time.
And i tend to add tone really quickly, although it might sound like a dumb question, but is it best to try and render slowly?

Sorry about all the Q's, i'd just prefer to have it in one thread than making about 4 or hijacking someone else's.

[Noah Bradley]

1. Drawing from imagination is like anything in art--it takes practice. It's not something you should ignore completely until you've done enough studies to be able to draw well, but still be sure to supplement your imagination drawing with referenced studies.

2. Don't worry about style. But if you still are worrying about it even if I'm telling you not to, search the forums. There's plenty of discussions on style that go in-depth as to why it's not something to worry about. Just try to be as good as you possibly can, and style will sort itself out.

[RyerOrdStar]

Why draw from imagination? Find reference for the poses/objects you want in your 'imaginative' piece and then you'll have a fantasy illustration but it'll look good so you'll feel good. Eventually you'll be able to do it from imagination, but definitely not at this stage and there's no reason you have to.

[JeffX99]

Great questions ZenzybaR - Noah has it right. I noticed some Loomis and Bridgman in your sketchbook which is great. So here's my two cents:

To be able to draw well from your imagination you have to be really, really comfortable drawing from life - that is the best way to learn and improve. It seems like you draw a lot which is great - but it also seems like you're expecting to learn by just spending time drawing - it isn't really just a matter of sketch time. What is required is what one of my mentors called "diligent study" - that means really trying to understand the concepts and fundamentals underlying art - that is not a casual undertaking.

On style - I totally understand your feelings of " i think i'm starting to see it, and i don't like it" - really well put. I'm not sure if most artsist feel the same way but I sure struggle with the same feelings. My "style" is nothing like what I thought or expected...very weird feeling. I handle this in two ways: one, I use it to my advantage to illustrate/develop concepts that seem in line with my "style"; two, I try to be aware of what I feel are strengths and shortcomings and I work to minimize the latter and enhance the former - in short I work hard to fight my style sometimes and push beyond it.

On time - I think your tendency to "breeze through things too quickly" is good to be aware of - that relates to the "diligent study" I mentioned. Take the time to not just be drawing/sketching sort of haphazardly expecting to unlock the secrets of foreshortening, composition, proportion, light and shadow...instead think about your process, observe carefully and try to understand what you are seeing. One caveat is I think people can carry things to the other extreme and spend far more time on a drawing or painting than they should. Some things just take the time though - if you go to my Traditional Album in my profile I have a charcoal drawing on toned paper - it was a class assignment to draw two eyes, two noses, etc. all composed on one sheet - I think that went about 18 hours. The grisaille painting studies are more like 2 hours each.

Oh, and get these: Jim Gurney; Imaginitive Realism and Deborah Rockman; Drawing Essentials.

Keep up the great work - you're on the right track for sure!

Jeff

[ZenzybaR]

Thanks for the great advice guys, especially JeffX99. I'll take everything said and make the most of it.
I'm loving your gallery as well ^_^. How long have you been drawing/painting for, if you don't mind me asking? I just seem to always have this nagging feeling to ask people.
Thanks again everyone.

[armando]

All drawing is from the imagination.

[Slothboy3000]

What Armando said. Even observational drawings try to capture something the artist 'feels', so in a sense, although you are drawing from the best reference you can get you're most certainly not outright copying.
Creativity is what it's all about!

[Lamp]

What Armando said. Even observational drawings try to capture something the artist 'feels', so in a sense, although you are drawing from the best reference you can get you're most certainly not outright copying.
Creativity is what it's all about!

Aside from the touchy feely stuff there's the plain fact that it's impossible to literally recreate real life with graphite or paint. Even when you're painting an apple that's sitting right in front of you, you are making conscious design decisions on how to recreate that form with a stub of charcoal, 2-dimensionally, and with a value range infinitely limited compared to that of real life. That's why trying to "copy" a model fails, while actively studying and designing your drawing can give fantastic results. People who imagine that realistic representational art is boring and without artistic merit are the people who fail to realize this.

On the note of imagination drawing in general, don't sweat it. Yeah, your imagination drawings may suck, but don't give up on it. I think it's an important part of learning and growing. At a beginning stage you might be wise to spend a bit more time diligently studying, but take some time every day to sketch some random crap off the top of your head, just to keep those muscles active. Go ahead and bask in its crappiness if you must, but don't let that deter you. It will only get less crappy with time.

[JeffX99]

You're welcome ZenzybaR - thanks for checking out my stuff. I always wanted to be an artist but only got serious about it when I was 19-20. I was more into graphic design, lettering and stuff - wanted to be an album cover artist! Anyway, I got a degree in graphic design but went into making video games instead - and man I sucked back then! It was only after years that I decided I was tired of the sucking and started applying myself to studying the fundamentals...I suck less now maybe, but still feel inadequate - goes with the territory. Oh, so I've been an artist a long time but really only applied myself the last 15 years maybe? Thanks for asking...

[Wayuki]

If it is my style it looks stupid.


"Stupid" is not a style. As you get better, your style also evolves and becomes better. :P

[armando]

As an aspiring pro you should worry about style. Remember that video a while back by Jason Chan, what was it called? Oh yeah: "style exploration"! Analyse different artworks using whatever you know about design, try to match them. Put design restrictions on yourself, see what you can come up with. Employers are going to want you to draw in derivative styles when you're a pro, it's a skill you need to learn.

[Lamp]

That's a good point Armando, but on the other hand it's sort of pointless to worry TOO much about mastering different styles before you've really mastered the *fundamentals*, which will apply to your artwork no matter what your personal "style".

[Ruri]

I figured that after a while when i'm better i'd see my style, but i think i'm starting to see it, and i don't like it. If it is my style it looks stupid.


Don't worry, it's not like you reach some kind of style event horizon, where your stuck with what you've got forever. I can only really speak for myself, but I think my style has changed quite a bit over the last three years, and I if I look at something older than that now I usually just think "ugh, I drew that!?!".

My point is that I don't think a "style" is something fixed and unchanging. Hopefully, if you keep drawing and drawing, your style keeps evolving until crippling arthritis forces you to use robot arms to hold the pencil in the year 2076.

[dpaint]

Didn't see anybody mention this, so I thought I might give you some advice. Whenever I get stuck and feel like I need inspiration, I read something. Not sure what you like, fantasy or science Fiction or horror, but read something by some authors who are the masters of their craft. Tolkien, C. S. Lewis Lovecraft, Verne, Leigh Bracket, Marion Zimmer Bradley; many contemporary writers like Richard Morgan, Neil Stephenson, John Scalzi. Anyway those guys and women have created whole worlds that are waiting to be realized. If your not b a big reader, try books on disc to listen to. Then try illustrating some of the characters and places. Eventually you will come up with your own, but for now start with someone elses.

[armando]

...it's sort of pointless to worry TOO much about mastering different styles before you've really mastered the *fundamentals*, which will apply to your artwork no matter what your personal "style".

That's a mistake a lot of people make. You learn the fundamentals by making art, and analysing masterful artworks.

[ZenzybaR]

dpaint: thanks for the idea, i need to find a new book to read so i'll try and gain some inspiration

Thanks everyone for the ideas as well ^_^

[Kamber Parrk]

Drawing the figure from imagination requires a good handle on "mannikin-ization." That's the point of Burne Hogarth's Dynamic Figure Drawing (even if his writing style is pretty hard to get through), How To Draw Comics the Marvel Way, and that section in Loomis's Figure Drawing For All It's Worth where he introduces the "mannikin frame."

You can get pretty good at observational drawing using traditional (sorta 2-dimensional) "blocking in" methods. But, you need to learn to depict things as simplified 3D solids if you're going to pull things out of the blank page with your imagination.

[Lamp]

That's a mistake a lot of people make. You learn the fundamentals by making art, and analysing masterful artworks.

*Shrug* I do see where you're coming from. I suspect that we might be thinking about this in different ways. I still stand by the idea that personal style is a property that emerges FROM careful study of fundamental concepts.

Though upon further consideration, it might simply be the case that the two go hand in hand, and dependent upon and developing alongside the other.

[HAJiME]

Be glad you don't have a style. All style means is that I look at your art three times and I'm bored.

As for the imagination thing, there are very few things I can draw entirely from imagination. I find it a problem too, particular when roughing things out. But for planning, finished things, everyone should be using some kind of reference, I think. The skill is in using referencing properly.

It is a practise thing. Mentally and ability wise.

[mike100]

Kamber Parrk beat me to it. Burne Hogarth's books are the way to go. I recommend Dynamic Figure Drawing and How to Draw the Human Head. After reading those books I became incredibly comfortable with drawing figures. I learned more from one book than I did in four years of highschool art and a year of college studio.
Where I used to always draw timid figure, mostly figures standing with maybe a hand on one's hip, I now draw figures running directly at the page, drawing swords from their hips and leaping off buildings.
So, the Hogarth books will help with drawing figures from imagination, but it sounds like you want to adorn them with cool armor and clothing etc. What I found was that after drawing the human figure in tons of different poses for several months (all from imagination) I soon got bored and just started giving them rifles and jumpsuits and Halo armor. So I guess boredom bread invention.
Something else you can do is, once you're comfortable with your figures, draw a scene. Try to do something you know you can't, like draw a western shoot out set on the moon. You'll start with your figures, obviously, but soon have to draw things you're not comfortable with, like clothes, guns, hats, etc. But you'll be forced to learn because you have the scene to finish. This is just one way of forcing yourself to learn things. Sometimes sitting down and trying to come up with a cool armored character without a background for him to fit into is difficult. Give your character a background and the amor and clothing will follow.

Good Luck

[chinmpy]

If you ever find yourself in a rut just free draw dont think, just start drawing dont think about whats its going to be just go along with it, thats how i sketch out

[Kraus]

Putting imagination into a visual format is a piece of cake (depending on skill level, but skill is aqiuired through practice).

The HARDEST part is taking imagination and visualising the specifics. Just like a frozen moment in time... What do you see, what perspective do you see it from, etc etc.. Planing is very important, but obviously you can't plan out what you can't visualise. So my suggestion...Inspire yourself from other people's works, and recreate your own versions of it.

As you mentioned your cup of tea is swords and light armor, which probably makes you a fellow fantasy geek...awesome. Now just take existing concepts and start practicing how you can take those concepts and give them your own personal flavour. You'll see eventually visions will start creeping in, it's the "muse" buddy, hop on it and start visualising deeper and deeper.
I sometimes visualise for weeks straight before i start drawing it (yeah i'm a procrastinator), and when i sit down to draw it, it gets done like clockwork, because i allready see the image in my head.

Basicly you need to strive for the following thing: If there was a machine that could display exactly what's in your head to other people..What would they see? Well, you are that machine, a slow one, but never the less.
If you just start doodling in hopes of something cool comming out of it, something cool will come out, but will not give you the satisfaction you'd receive from creating it in your mind first..

[ZenzybaR]

I'll try to get the loomis and Hogarth books when possible. It's awesome how much help someone can get here.

[mpdpsy]

You might also want to check out Vilppu's Drawing Manual, it has really helped me in visualizing solid objects from imagination, for example one of the exercises was to draw the cube, and try to animate it moving through the air, which forces you to draw it from many angles and perspectives. Seems like a basic exercise, but it carries over to when you want to draw figures in action from imagination.

[JeffX99]

Vilpuu's book is pretty good - forget Hogarth - unless you want to draw strangely lit and muscled balloon people without any foreshortening. An important thing to keep in mind that I don't think anyone has really said - you can't really draw well from your imagination until you can first draw well from life. I might have already recommended this but check out Jim Gurney's book "Imaginitive Realism". He's all about using reference and models and maquettes, etc. so that he can accurately depict light, form, color, perspective, etc. in a natural way on very imaginitive subjects. Disney artists have always relied on working from life and maquettes as reference - they don't draw and paint from their imagination. All high level professional artists I know work from life. The other book I highly recommend for drawing from life is Deborah Rockman's "Drawing Essentials". Start with those - they'll take you far.

[Zazerzs]

Drawing from your imagination is relying on what you know, from drawing simple objects, learning how to shade,perspective,anatomy ect. If you want to draw creatures start drawing animal anatomy , stuff like that. The more control of that information you have the easier it is to play with.

[ZenzybaR]

mmmmm... I think i might have got the message out wrong. I seem to be, lacking in creativity kinda. Its like i have a puzzle and loads of pieces missing when i want to do something original.
I thought maybe it's from lack of planning, or just lack of skill, or maybe i just suck.

I saw a girl drawing in her sketchbook in college, and she was drawing an angel wrapping itself in its wings, it was okay. But if i were to try, i'd have a few lines (and i literally mean a few) before i mess everything up. Even if i used a reference, it would happen, just after 10 mins.

It worries me.

[Zazerzs]

Then use an eraser :) but really if you are worrying about your 1st few lines then maybe you are too tense to be creative. Just keep up the practicing.

[ZenzybaR]

hmmmm. . . Maybe i am too tense, and i guess coupled with my current ignorance just makes the matter worse lol. Or maybe i'm expecting too much. oh well, i'll try something in the morning.