Art-sy people piss me off

[AnarchyAo2]

At my school, theres a group of "art-sy" people. These people think they're great artists and brag about it, but they suck ass. They think that you have to wear all black, sunglasses, dye your hair more then 4 colors a week to be good at art. One of these kids doesn't like too much. She thinks I don't appreciate art. I'd be cool with them if they kept to themselves and left me and other kids alone. She also rants about me wearing abercombie and fitch. She says I'm a sell-out (Whatever that is). So, I'm drawing in art class the other day. I was drawing random doodles on the paper. She comes up and says:
"You need more compisition in your drawing."
"Oh, I was just doodlin--"
"It doesn't matter, you need more compsition."
"Um...but I'm just doodling, I don't think its fit for critisim."
"Everything can be critised." (She said something like that. Shes just trying to make herself seem "deep".)
"Okay, I just don't care then. I don't want to hear what you have to say. Just go away."
"Thats why your ignorant."
"Your not even good at art, so just go away. I'm not going to be preached to by someone who doesn't even know what they're talking about."
"Yeah, whatever." ( <--sign of my victory! Whatever always means that I'm right.)

Not all "art-sy" people piss me off. If they know what they're talking about, and they're being helpful. Thats cool, I like people like that.

[Beatnik]

Don't let it get to you man. There are going to be people like that for the rest of your life. You can actually have some fun with it should you be so inclined. You can learn from anyone, even if it's what not to do.

[darkcult]

Maybe she was just trying to be friendly, pointing at you something that was worth looking into. Maybe she was trying to help you.Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we'll never know.
Maybe I'm using"maybe" too much.Maybe yes,maybe no.
Just think for a moment. Maybe.

[mtw]

It's funny how they think you're a conformist by wearing A&F and then they go and all dress alike.

[davi]

Critisim can be good from all angles even if you dont' agree with it at the time.

The best way to get someone off your case is to say 'i'll take the into consideration, thank you.' Rather than making a scene.

I felt the same as you did awhile back about my earlier work, but now when i look at back my work and the critisim given, i wish i was less numb and more open to what people were saying.

[al-x]

In my teens I entered some pieces for local youth art exihibition. A couple of days before the exihibit a local newspaper did an artical on it. In this artical there was a picture of one of my pieces and a commentary on it for not being "real art" (don't remember the exact word this was a long time ago).

The pieces I had entered were some comic pages and some pinup girls... (and they where better than most of the art that was showed)

[N D Hill]

I've had similar experiences here. Artsy people here usually just tend to be inconsiderate snobs. They use your stuff without asking, not that I mind sharing, but they act as if they have more right to it than you because they consider themselves as part of this elite click of devinely inspired visionaries...then they end up painting a couple of squigly lines and call it perfect. Btw, because I can't appreciate that, that makes me the ignorant one. God forbid they actually make something that looks like something or has relevent meaning. Personally, I think modern art is a cop out. They want so much to be original and do something that no one's ever done so they do something that no one would ever WANT to do. Now I'm a big preacher for originality but originality for originalities sake can be a bad thing.

They also use shock value for shock value's sake which I see as completely lacking of integrity. Don't get me wrong, I love the work of Giger and Francis Bacon, but they do it in order to make their audience see the world differently and to see beauty in things that mainstream art would ignore. But a bucket of piss with a dead bird in it is nothing but a bucket of piss with a dead bird in it.

I've also had some experience of the opposite kind which is still skewed but much more pleasent. I had a really great life-drawing professor last year and like we do at every class, he looks at our work and gives us critiques. One day, he gave me a critique on something he had me tack up for everyone to see and his comments were right on the money. I appreciated it very much because he was right and ended up helping me out a lot but after class, two girls came up to me and told me they loved my drawing and that they thought the professor was a jerk for saying what he said. Don't get me wrong, I was flattered, but it only made me think of the harsh wake-up call they would have to face.

[John]

Maybe she's got a crush on you and is trying to make a move :D
Sounds like she's trying to look smart, and there's always a reason for girls to do that…

[Lohan]

Mmm I'm in high school in NY and there is a big group of artsy people like that. They all wear really trendy type clothes and berets and are trying to attend all these art colleges but besides like 1 or 2 of them they are all soooo bad. I'm more amused by them than anything. The way you dress and the people you associate with doesn't dictate if you are an artist, so who cares about "them".

[Aven]

Never had any problems with people wearing berets here in Canberra. I did get quite discouraged during high school though as all my art teachers would tell me that comic books weren't art, and real artists don't make money from their art (until they die). Fortunately when I reached College, my teachers were really cool and helped me out heaps :)

As Davi said, try to actually listen to her words a bit and see what she has to say. She may have some point. Other wise, just let it be.

[AnarchyAo2]

Ahh god Ancient Kitten! Thats so sick! She wouldn't like me. Shes in love with her cousin. (Ugh...so sick). Also, shes one of those people who suck up to teachers trying to act all buddy-buddy with them. And the teachers hate her. Its so funny, she doesn't even realise that they hate her. :D

[Beatnik]

Maybe darkcult is right.

[AnarchyAo2]

She may have been trying to be friendly, but she isn't exactly known for being friendly. A friend of mine was in a class with her. He wanted to say something to her, but didn't know her name. So he waved to her and said "Hey." She yelled at him saying "I have a name you know! Why don't you say it besides yelling 'HEY, HEY'?!". Thats 2nd hand information so it may have been exagerrated. Also, if she was being friendly, thats even worse because I don't want to be her friend and I don't want to lead her to thinking i do. If that makes me a bad person...good, I'd rather have a rep for being a prick then have her rambling around me. :P

lol Aven: Your art teachers said real artists make money from their art? Are your art teachers artists? Haha, the irony!

BTW what is a sell-out? I hear it all the time and have no clue what it is. I ask people and all they give are vague answer that include "sell-out" in the definition.

[davi]

this is starting to sound more like highschool artist woes and not college artist woes.

[Ewan]

KILLEMALL!

No seriously... Don't worry they gonna be flippin' hamburgers in a few years...

Would you like fries with that?

Oh yeah...

[AnarchyAo2]

And thats why I don't eat McDonalds. :D

[winjer]

Most of the artsy people i know are wacko. I think theyve given up on traditional stuff and just do whatever the hell they feel like cuz its accepted. There are a few people who actually know what the hell theyre doing/talking about but thats rare. That comment about composition I hear that all the time from the artsys. They cant draw anything but appparently they have great composition. Although any real artist will tell you the old traditional masters were also masters of composition. Ive been getting angrier the more im forced to be around them. This felt good.

[catterpillar]

at my high school there were no artsy types. we were the only actual group where more than one member did art. it was great - except when everyone else wanted help because we could actually draw... I hope there aren't any of those 'faux artists' when i go to uni... :(

[lavhoes]

I know a few people who only ever seem to draw the exact same anime-esque face. But they like that face, far above anything anyone that isn't Japanese has done. So naturally, when you're doodling around them they've got all these art tips for you that don't make any fucking sense because they started their art from the top-down instead of establishing their basics and then easing into a style they felt comfortable with.

So, naturally, I make sure they never see my stuff.

It's not that I don't know how to listen to advice, good or bad. It's just that these people preach their ignorance and arrogance over and over again. It's very grating.

I feel your pain, Anarchy. College doesn't get any better when it comes to this sort of stuff. One of the people I'm talking about just turned 30. Listen, but don't take anything they have to say too seriously.

[N D Hill]

Originally posted by AnarchyAo2
BTW what is a sell-out? I hear it all the time and have no clue what it is. I ask people and all they give are vague answer that include "sell-out" in the definition.

A sell-out is someone who'd do anything for money like a celebrity endorsing a product they never use on a comercial or an artist doing something for the sole purpose of cashing in, even if it means saccrificing all respect and integrity they may have had.

Sinplified: Sell-out=.

[AnarchyAo2]

I think I'd like to be a sell-out. I'm not seeing how wearing A&F makes me one. I'm spending money, not making it by wearing the clothes. I guess this is another example of art-sy people using words they don't understand.

[bRyaN]

Originally posted by davi
this is starting to sound more like highschool artist woes and not college artist woes.

indeed...

Lohan: What school do you go to...i graduated from Art in Design in Manhattan...

Reason I'm asking is cause most fo the kids that do decide to go into the fine arts major, seriously believe they are better than everyone else...

Me myself was a cartooning major, then went onto animation, i could draw circles around those fools...

[AnarchyAo2]

Davi: Your right, thats because I am in highschool.

[Marcatili]

I know of a guy who twirled his moustache in an extremely Dali-esque fashion and called himself an 'artist' as if it was some form of higher spiritual plain or something. Of course this guys actual art work wasn't particularly interesting in anyway. Not only did he seem to want desperately to be an 'artist' like this girl in your class but he was easily in his 50's, so people like this are always going to be there.

Basically, being humble about your art and knowing you've still got a lot to learn is probably the preferable perspective to have on making art. Those who feel superior tend not to be open to criticism and thus do not learn.

I know a lot of people who study art (unfortunately i'm not one of them!) and almost all of them are completely down to earth, friendly people, despite the fact that they excel at their work. I know I'm not the only one who could say that most artists are great people.

[DanSTC]

I believe the word you're looking for is "pretentious" and yes, the art fags are almost always without exception, extremely pretentious.

You, however, were the bigger pretentious art fag in this situation, unfortunately.

Sure, she may "suck" at art, but that doesn't mean she's not allowed to hold an opinion over something. Some people can be very opinionated over things they lack experience in. People who can't "do" often have really good ideas that they haven't yet learned how to properly execute, or hold some pretty good personal tastes in art, or carry a pretty worthwhile intellectual understanding of art. Sure, there are a lot of bad ideas out there as well, and there ARE certainly an extremely rare select few jerks beyond redemption who you should probably avoid at all cost, but that still doesn't mean that you should treat people like garbage.

I would also like to reiterate that in your hastiness to write off someone else as being a pretentious artsy-fartsy type, you yourself have unwittingly become one.

That said, never ever ever ever ever make the mistake of blowing someone off simply because you see them as less skilled or knowledgeable than you, even if they come off as condescending or socially awkward towards you. (The condescension is more often than not unintentional, I've found. People are sometimes proud to trumpet the little tidbits of knowledge they've come across, or think they understand.)

Of course, if you're in a hurry or don't wish to be bothered, at least be polite and honest.

I suggest apologizing to her for your rudeness, and as a token of goodwill, offering to share sketchbooks with one another so you can learn from one another. (Maybe you have some pointers you can give her, for that matter.) There's no need for you to cut people off like that, especially since you're both still in highschool for crying out loud.

Edit: Oh yeah...the fact that you're both in highschool is what REALLY kills me about your situation. Where do you get off telling her she doesn't know shit about art? There are thousands of people out there a trillion times more skilled and knowledgeable than her, you, and myself out there...and unless you somehow manage to do one hell of a lot of study and make your way near to the top, there always will be. Of course, the majority of these people have learned to take crticism, even that which comes from the inexperienced, in stride.
For that matter, art, especially that of a conceptual nature, is a constant struggle to learn, relearn, and search for new. Communication and criticism is vital to this process. For as history has shown us time and time again with countless artists, blowing people off for being less knowledgeable that you consider yourself to be is the fastest one-way ticket to Infatuated Ego Village, population you.

In closing, I would quote a little Nietzsche in true pretentious art-fag fashion, since I think it's especially relevent to your situation: "He who would do battle with monsters should see that he himself does not become a monster."

[Erik]

Yeah man,

whatever... do what you like to do and find people that like the same stuff, don't bother with the ones that irritate you. There is no time to hassle about that stuff, just focus on yourself and your friends to do what you like to do.

Just try to see the value of her criticism regardless of the person saying it - see if she has a point or not and do something with it if you want, just don't get into these hormone-diluted discussions they soak up too much energy and time that you could use to do something else, like draw.

Man do i sound like a know it all.. soryy about that, better take some of my own medicine now ;-)

[AnarchyAo2]

I do tend to take critisms from people, the ones most valued are the ones coming from people who don't know anything about art. Like, kids who know nothing about art and come to see your work. Do they pick at the small little things? Nope, they focus on the biggest problems. They don't say "You could use a little bit more red there, and some orange there.", they say things like "Her mouth looks wierd" "Is that a man or a woman?". But, this girl's critisms just didn't make any sense to me at all. Compisition?! Hell, 1/2 the page was scribbles of "I"M BORED!!!". If there was any effort put into the drawing, then I'd be a little more open to critisms.

Also, shouldn't she ask me if I wanted critisms?

[Erik]

maybe it appealed to her sense of art then ...

[DanSTC]

Originally posted by AnarchyAo2
I do tend to take critisms from people, the ones most valued are the ones coming from people who don't know anything about art. Like, kids who know nothing about art and come to see your work. Do they pick at the small little things? Nope, they focus on the biggest problems. They don't say "You could use a little bit more red there, and some orange there.", they say things like "Her mouth looks wierd" "Is that a man or a woman?". But, this girl's critisms just didn't make any sense to me at all. Compisition?! Hell, 1/2 the page was scribbles of "I"M BORED!!!". If there was any effort put into the drawing, then I'd be a little more open to critisms.

That's still no excuse to blow her off like that, though I do agree it was moronic of her to bitching about compositioning over scribbles in a sketchpad.

This is exactly the part where it goes sour for you in the conversation:

"Okay, I just don't care then. I don't want to hear what you have to say. Just go away."
"Thats why your ignorant."
"Your not even good at art, so just go away. I'm not going to be preached to by someone who doesn't even know what they're talking about."
"Yeah, whatever."

Telling her that she sucks at art and should go away isn't classy at all. The girl telling you "whatever" and walking away actually comes off as the classier one in this situation, even though you both acted like idiots to some degree.

Also, shouldn't she ask me if I wanted critisms?

If you don't want to be subject to the occasional random critique, don't sketch in public. If someone gives you unsolicited crticism, just deal with it politely. If you don't wish to be bothered, explain that to the person as polite as you can so you don't come off as a stuck-up asshole.

Some people attempt break the ice by critiquing other people's work, especially in art classes...that may have been what the girl in your story was attempting to do, even if she was pretty inept about it.

[DanSTC]

Originally posted by al-x
In my teens I entered some pieces for local youth art exihibition. A couple of days before the exihibit a local newspaper did an artical on it. In this artical there was a picture of one of my pieces and a commentary on it for not being "real art" (don't remember the exact word this was a long time ago).

The pieces I had entered were some comic pages and some pinup girls... (and they where better than most of the art that was showed)

Oh, I just love it when people attempt to claim something isn't "really" art. :rolleyes:

Comic art is called comic art for a reason for crying out loud. It's not exactly rocket surgery to figure that one out in this day and age, especially given all the fine artistes these days who do comic art. So my question is, was the guy COMPLETELY retarded or just partially?

[DanSTC]

Originally posted by Exo
Personally, I think modern art is a cop out.

Lately I'm having a hard time deciding who's dumber; modern artists who reject representational art, or representational artists who reject modern art.

It IS true that there is a LOT of modern art that is crap. But hell, there's a lot of representational art that's crap.

However, there are genuinely good modern art pieces that can do things and evoke imagery that representational art could never hope to accomplish. The same holds true in reverse for representational art.

Lots of people fool themselves into thinking that modern art is easy or a cop-out compared to the hard work involved with representational art. It is true that for the most part it appears easier at first glance than representational art...this is why modern art is filled with lazy idiots who approach it as a cop-out. But what they and many critics fail to recognize are not just the ideas and creative intuition behind the work, but also very often the craftsmanship and skill that often goes into such pieces. This craftsmanship is very often tougher to quantify, especially when the artist is essentially off on his or her own tangent.

To me, artists who are able to pull off both representational AND abstract or "modern" art have my utmost respect. Few have been capable of mastering both fields successfully, but those who have are very noteworthy. Dave Mckean, for example---Don't try to tell me for one minute that the more abstract stuff he does is "easy" or a "cop-out." (I doubt you will though. I'm just citing him as an example.)

They also use shock value for shock value's sake which I see as completely lacking of integrity. Don't get me wrong, I love the work of Giger and Francis Bacon, but they do it in order to make their audience see the world differently and to see beauty in things that mainstream art would ignore. But a bucket of piss with a dead bird in it is nothing but a bucket of piss with a dead bird in it.

I disagree. Some shock art actually does have some inherent value to it, often in its utter rejection of any sort of value. In many cases, it's for a sick sense of irony's sake, or the "art" is in the knee-jerk response it provokes in people. However, yes...there is a lot of really stupid, contrived, lame-ass and just plain tasteless "shock" art out there.

[Ewan]

I said it once...

I say it again...

KILL EM ALL!!!

or settle for a life of hydrogenated fatty fastfoods!

:beer:

[Redder]

You know nothing good can come from this.

[AnarchyAo2]

Haha, Dan, don't sketch in public? What am I supposed to do in art class? And yeah, I was a little too rough on her, I agree with that. I don't think I should have to listen to her critisms which are basicly "mad lips" with art terms put into the blanks.

[N D Hill]

I know it's not entirely fair of me to say that about modern artists. jackson Pollock is one who comes to mind who I believe did some admirable work. Unfortunately, After the first few times you see paint splattered on a canvas, it becomes a little exhausted and there're points when you cease to have creation but instead have arrangement. Modern art, i supposed is a rather vague term too. It suggests a new and cutting edge genre to me, as if they have know need to regard the works and themes left by the classics. Where I attend classes, "modern artists" act exactly like that, as if their adherence to "modern art" makes them some highly evolved super-artist. I took two art history classes that spanned prehistory to the present when combined. Throughout all times covered, the twentieth century america is the only one with artists who classified their work only with the egotistic "modern" term. I may not be exposed to the entire scope, but for the most part I see these trends occuring more in modern art. An arrogance that suggests that everything else is outdated and primative like the popular clicks in highschool.

As for shock art,

True, it does provide us with a clear antithesis of social norms, which observes the values upheld by a society by drawing them out (sometimes violently), but what's gained by provoking someone for the sake of provoking them? Are they actually expected to consider new viewpoints when theirs are so irresponsably and insensitively attacked? I found this out first hand in a drawing class where I made an anti-war painting that was a collage of news headlines and statistics of civilian death tolls in the war in Iraq, and projected oil profits of US based companies. In the middle I had written "war on Terror" with terror covering up the word "Arabs." I had also mixed red and black paint coming from two different ends signifying the mingling of blood with oil. Needless to say, I pissed people off. That's all I did though. They were not for one moment lulled into considering my vewpoint and probably were made even more hostile to it. I made a bold hostile statement that lacked reasonable argument. All it did was rally the people who already agreed with me and no ground was made with my intended audience. When you make a collage of the Madonna out of porn and dung, you're not asking catholics to consider a new objective viewpoint, you're just making a bold assumptive claim that lacks both integrity and supportive argument.

this ought to make a good discussion, I wish more people would chime in.

[Lono]

colliding egos and drama,,, who cares really?

you should have just stood up and farted on her leg..

you would have destroyed her world and she would have never bothered you again.

-Lono

[stalecracker]

HAH!
Yep, I agree with Lono.

My method differs slightly-
You have to reach down into your pants and vigorously scratch your Balzac and the when the affected person LOUDLY exclaims "WHAT are you DOING?!? You say "Making sure you never talk to me again."

...and then tap your moist finger on their upper lip.



That'll definitely set a conversational precedent.

[Ewan]

I'd rather go for a good ol' classic:

Slowly shift your weight on one (butt)cheeck

fart

slowly sit on both (butt)cheecks

count till 3

and say: "You where saying?"

Farts! Is there anything they can't do?

:D

[Lono]

haha,, now this conversation is getting interesting!

-Lono

[WildSpruceMoose]

I try to sketch less in public, myself. I don't feel comfortable with anyone watching me create art.

Oh you should really tell her to pay attention in English class too, "more composition in your sketching" is really not a very accurate thing to say. Composition isn't something that you toss 20 of into a picture. Composition is the picture, whatever the individual pieces are they make a composition. Just thought I'd point that out.

People who are artsy can be artsy if they want, but when they wake up listening to their afi one morning and realize that beyond talking about art they haven't practised any for years they'll get their's. Don't worry about people who comment with a negative tone on your work. Only constructive things may be said damnit!

Well good luck dealing with the burret squad ;)

-Pete

[AnarchyAo2]

lol lono has the best advice.

[otis]

Actually, I think you might have been taking her comments to personally. You might be the one who is considered "the asshole/ know it all artist" by being so removed and judmental of her! Your whole attitude in that conversation seemed a bit cold to me.

When you get out of school you are going to have to learn to not take comments or people too personaly! Especially if you want to consider yourself an artist, or plan on making any friends in life.
You'll soon learn that confidence in your work and yourself will take you MUCH further in life and art, than always being defensive and judgmental. The two of you were just as bad as the other. You judge her as much as she judges you! You have to also remmember that as artist WE ARE ALWAYS LEARNING. You acted like a "pompus, know it all artist" in my opinion, and she was just offering advice.

So, stop being a hyporitical, insecure, judgmental, kid, and show her that you are open to her opinions and comments, and always willing to learn. I think you are so defensive and judgmental of her becuase you are not confident in yourself or your work yet.

You two could probably learn alot from eachother if you were not so defensive.

[shadow]

Well, I find there are alot of pretentious artsy types in my school, but when they critique me, and I know they suck, I just nod my head and agree. They will believe they know what they are talking about, and when it comes time to hand in thier portfolios to art school, be happy while visuallizing their look of horror as the school tosses it back in their faces
*evil chortle*:evilbat:
P.S. Another solution is to turn your back and laugh, and when they ask whats so funny, say" oh nothing", that'll drive em crazy.

[qwerty]

i think she likes you

[AnarchyAo2]

"So, stop being a hyporitical, insecure, judgmental, kid, and show her that you are open to her opinions and comments, and always willing to learn. I think you are so defensive and judgmental of her becuase you are not confident in yourself or your work yet. "

I'm not being hypocritical. I take critisms all the time from teachers and other students. But, this girl walks around to other people desks all the time, saying whats wrong with their stuff. Its just so damn stupid, because 1/2 the time her crits are wrong. She told my friend that eyes were supposed to be 3/4 up on the face. Wrong. You act like just because she has something to say, its going to be right, and if I don't listen to her bullshit opinions then I'm hypocritical, and a judgmental kid. Yeah, I may have been judgmental, so what? I judged her on how she acted and what her opinions were. Not because she was "art-sy". Plus, I was in a bad mood from the period before, so I really didn't want to hear her.

Insecure? I'm never insecure about my work. I'd be posting on here if I had a scanner or a digital camera (well, my mom does, but she keeps it at her school).

Heres another way to think of it:
Art is a subject like anything else. It takes practice and the will to learn. Math is just the same. So, if your having trouble on your math homework, and then a 4 year old comes up. He says "You add dere and dere! :fart:" but there was no addition symbol in the equation! What do you do?
A) Take the kid's advice and add the numbers anyway, just so you won't be a hypocrite.

B) Tell him to go back to preschool.

I vote B.

Another thing. I was wrong to be so harsh. I probably could have said it in a more mature way.

[otis]

Anarchy,

All the rules and techniques that you are learning right now are only for foundation. Art and math ARE similar. You see..after you "learn the rules" you will have to break them. Remmember, math is only a theory. After you learn all the theories, rules ect, you explore Quantum..$%@... and all kinds of weird shit later on. (I only know this cause my roomate incollege was a math major/physics major.) And I learned as an artist that math and art were VERY similar.

I assumed that this girl was trying to teach you that the "rules" are not always meant to be followed. Maybe she is a "busy body" who is trying to make up for somthing in her life. But you should still be open to her ideas.
Here is a little philosphical advice I believe:

Life is a lot like a painting. A good painting is done with precision and planning. A great painting creates itself through mistakes and unforseen opportunities.

My point is, that you have to be open to crazy, even ubsurd ideas somtimes..and always remmember that things which look like mistakes, end up opening doors to greater opportunites. Don't get caught up in all the formalities and technicalities in Life or Art.
Someday you will learn that the great artists who's work you probably don't understand yet, are great for a reason.

They learned to let the work create itself.

[Grooveholmes]

Originally posted by Lono
colliding egos and drama,,, who cares really?

you should have just stood up and farted on her leg..

you would have destroyed her world and she would have never bothered you again.

-Lono

LMAO, perfect solution!

AnarchyAo2, I think you're in Lurv man.

[Skank]

Originally posted by Lono
colliding egos and drama,,, who cares really?

you should have just stood up and farted on her leg..

you would have destroyed her world and she would have never bothered you again.

-Lono

lol
wow
i shouldve read this thread earlier..

and i agree, farts can solve alot of problems! if somone wont shut up, a nice loud fart will do just that!
you can also clear a room if the need arises!

makes the world go round... :D

[Pezz3D]

Heh, Wanna talk about not being a cliche artist, I spend most of my day working on cars. ZUP!?

[DanSTC]

Originally posted by AnarchyAo2
Haha, Dan, don't sketch in public? What am I supposed to do in art class?

Why are you asking me? You just answered your own question AND proved my point. If you want to be an artist, be prepared to deal with random people who will make commentary about your work. Many of them may not know what they're talking about, but blowing them off only makes you the bigger stuck-up asshole.

Instead of blowing her off entirely, try having a dialogue with her. Listen to her criticisms and point out where she might be incorrect. Better yet, inform her that she shouldn't preach to others so much about what she considers "wrong" without attempting to refine and increase her own knowledge. (The "eyes should be 3/4 up the face" thing for example...correct her on those things.) She might be willing to learn a thing or two from you.

You act like just because she has something to say, its going to be right,

Of course not...the point is not whether or not she's right or wrong, but that you actually listen to her and have the courtesy to give her the time of day. Better yet, attempt to have a dialogue with her as I suggested.

If no one ever talks to her, how is she supposed to learn anything or change herself? People telling her, politely, what their opinion of her busy-body criticism is could potentially be a turning point in her life. If enough people tell her to change, she just might make the effort to do so.

Another thing. I was wrong to be so harsh. I probably could have said it in a more mature way.

Given your detailing of the other moronic things she's done, I'm starting to sympathize a little with your frustration. Although yes, you acted like an asshole, and probably could've told her that you don't wish to be bothered in a more polite manner.

[Jens]

There is this arty farty guy in my class, he wears a long brown coat, red scarf, messy hair, sideburns..

So he walks in the school atelier, coat hung over his shoulder.. looks around, walks to his desk, sits down, stands up, and off he goes /exits the building..

Then an hour later he comes back, walks around the atelier for a while. Then notices me and sighs loudly: damn it's boring here. So I said, why don't you practice a little.. he blinks his eyes and stares for a while like i said the most shocking thing in the world. Then he went back to his desk and... HE STARTED DRAWING omg :D

silly man :)

[Lauren Short]

i say we're all susceptible to other people's stupidity...i guess the real trick in life is to know how to shun them away without upsetting them or making them your enemy (and if they don't get the picture then f*ckin' go off on them:bash: )

heh heh heh:evilbat:

:D

[dfacto]

Lono, you're a genius.

:nod:

btw, Anarchy, if she has a crush on you then be nice to her and get in her panties. *sigh* Dirty minds at work.:chug:

[amphex]

hey i am art-sy person
fuck you all
bitches

[Lauren Short]

wow, what a nice thing to say....

but couldn't you have come up with an argument a little more creative than "fuck you all"


:bsflag: :ranting: :thumbsup: :D ;)

[AnarchyAo2]

Originally posted by amphex
hey i am art-sy person
fuck you all
bitches

Wow! Amphex, you just gave me another reason to hate art-sy people! They're dumb as horse shit.

[Cocofuppa]

Ah man this thread reminds me of this girl in my college class. She wears stripey stockings, pink wierd hair, lots of patches all over her bag, black makeup, uses tria markers like they are gods gift... and can u guess what style she draws? Anime, WHO COULD HAVE GUESSED THAT! :P oh yeh, and she always talks a load of shit to the other students as if she was better than them, looking to be worshiped. Isnt that just sad?

[AnarchyAo2]

I have friends who dress like that. Like, pants with a million zippers on them and only 3 have a pocket or lead to somewhere. But they're cool, they don't act all "dark". They're normal people in clothes that look stupid. The people who make their clothes decide who they are, are the people who piss me off. You can't go living life being "dark" just because your wearing black pants. Or go living life acting "art-sy" just because you wear a red and white striped scarf and a black beanie.

Yeah, coco, I know where your coming from. People who draw anime and who think their good piss me off also. If you look at their drawings you can tell that their just remakes of other anime characters. Like this one girl must have had a whole notebook full of inu-yasha (whatever its called) fan art. In my opinion, drawing manga is a lot like playing Mister Potato-Head (no offense to any GOOD manga/anime drawers out there, if your good and original. More power to ya). All you need to make a successfull anime character is:
A) A head. A lot of anime heads can be male or female. Pick one and paste it on!
B) A body. Same thing, only if your picking a female body. You need to add boobs that wider then you are tall.
C) Accessories! Big pants, big shirt, something BIG. If you don't have something REALLY BIG. Its not going to be "Mr. Potato-Head Anime". Note: The boobs don't count!

This is my theory of "Mr. Potato-Head Anime". Thank you.

[bigmonkeynuts]

stop talking and get back to your sketchbooks

[DanSTC]

Originally posted by AnarchyAo2


Wow! Amphex, you just gave me another reason to hate art-sy people! They're dumb as horse shit.

Yeah, for one thing, they can't tell when they've just called themselves dumb as horse shit.



Dumbasses are dumbasses, period. The girl you encountered was a pretentious busybody happened to be artistically inclined. (And possibly artistically "challenged"...) But if you consider yourself to be an artist, you are art-sy people.

[Lauren Short]

i think when it comes right down to it, we can all be "art-sy" in our own ways..just there are always gonna b people that just down right piss you off...and many people who don't understand why they/someone pissed you off.. people are people, we're just plain weird...haha yea, there's my thoughts:beer: :chug:

[DanSTC]

Originally posted by Cocofuppa
Ah man this thread reminds me of this girl in my college class. She wears stripey stockings, pink wierd hair, lots of patches all over her bag, black makeup, uses tria markers like they are gods gift... and can u guess what style she draws? Anime, WHO COULD HAVE GUESSED THAT! :P oh yeh, and she always talks a load of shit to the other students as if she was better than them, looking to be worshiped. Isnt that just sad?

There's a girl like that at every college with a robust art department, it seems. They almost always invariably have huge egos, too; the last one I met told me to fuck off when I tried to help her a little with some of the volumes in her drawing.

I really think there's some sort of a cult mentality among girls like these, since they seem to have donned a pre-fabricated "I'm an outcast" outfit, usually with copious amounts of badly executed Oriental fashion statements and "Nightmare before christmas" book bags.
It's like they've surrendered their rational thought to donning a social hiearchy uniform that they're barely even aware of, sort of like the modern S.U.V.-driving backwards-baseball-cap-wearing fuckers and their britney spears deathclown girlfriends. (There's one on every freeway just waiting to cut you off at your turn.) Make no question about it...people who unwittingly become stereotypes are fucking irritating in their utter predictability.

As for the anime style, Americans doing anime is a bit like white people attempting to do the blues...it's pathetic and imitative right up to the point that they discover their own original voice and style that takes influence from it. Hell, I've seen American artists who take anime/manga conventions and do things with it that the Japanese never even thought of.

But yeah, the people who buy "HOW TO DRAW MANGA (BADLY)" so they can scribble Inu-Yasha doodles in their Jack Skellington sketchpad should be lined up and shot. Oop...was that a bit harsh?

[Cocofuppa]

Rite on dan, ye read my mind :P

[DanSTC]

Originally posted by Cocofuppa
Rite on dan, ye read my mind :P

Thanks.

Don't even get me started on the male equivalent, of course. Those types alternate between laughably bad cheap-print anime shirts, which have become the leisure suit of the late 90's early 2000's, and all-black "oriental-emo-goth" government-approved fashion disaster wear.

I saw at least a score of them at the San Diego comic convention this year, often sitting out front with their ditzy Poky-munching girlfriends.

Of course, I still give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Many people don a uniform like that simply to blend in, or stand out, or whatever the reason...to them, the uniform has little bearing on measuring their own creativity or intelligence.
But people who subscribe to the mentality that goes with the uniform are the ones I generally avoid...

[AnarchyAo2]

Dan, we could be considered art-sy. I guess it all depends on the intention of the word when you use it. When I said art-sy, I mean't people who try to show that they're good at art by wearing cliche clothes that are assoiciated with art. Does it make them good? No. Does it make them ignorant to think just because they dress one way that they're more knowledgable then others? I think so. Sorry if I'm sounding defensive. I think that your arguments are valid and you've pointed out many of my flaws in this situation. I was probably ignorant to be so sterotypical. I was probably just as bad as she is. She thinks her clothes determine her artistic ablities, while I judged her abilities from those clothes.

"stop talking and get back to your sketchbooks" Look whos talking! Oooooo! ;)

[DanSTC]

Originally posted by AnarchyAo2
Dan, we could be considered art-sy. I guess it all depends on the intention of the word when you use it. When I said art-sy, I mean't people who try to show that they're good at art by wearing cliche clothes that are assoiciated with art. Does it make them good? No. Does it make them ignorant to think just because they dress one way that they're more knowledgable then others? I think so. Sorry if I'm sounding defensive. I think that your arguments are valid and you've pointed out many of my flaws in this situation. I was probably ignorant to be so sterotypical. I was probably just as bad as she is. She thinks her clothes determine her artistic ablities, while I judged her abilities from those clothes.

Don't worry, I totally see where you're coming from. The only problem I have is that you're unable to recognize that the way in which you put down snobbish pretentious artsy-fartsy "hey look, I done found me a clique!" types actually makes you just as bad, if not worse than they can be.

True, there are lot of irritating ninnies and twits out there, but hell, I know that I can sometimes come off as a ninny or twit without meaning to. So I give people the benefit of the doubt if they're being snobbish or whatever, only stepping in and leveling with criticism of their conduct when it's absolutely necessary. But there's no reason to be a jerk about it as that simply tears people down...some people need to have their egos politely deflated a little sometimes, myself included.

"stop talking and get back to your sketchbooks" Look whos talking! Oooooo! ;)

I'd just like to add that if we were on our sketchpads all the time, we'd never get a chance to hear how much our work sucks from someone better than us. :)

[lavhoes]

I think it pretty much all comes down to "you can't become a chicken by shoving feathers up your ass."

If someone does everything else, like buying "the clothes," the material, copying the favorite artist, coming up with absolutely ridiculous art theories, in short everything except actually putting in the work, then that person's opinions are those that we should take very lightly.

Doesn't mean we're not going to listen. Art is art, after all, and I've seen some beautiful art come out of people who never draw from life. There's a lot to be learned from everybody. However, 9 times out of 10 what we are going to hear has absolutely no worth at all.

So yeah, listen to everybody, but be careful what you hear. A friend of mine back home was on his way towards a beautiful art style. He was sketching his friends, drawing from life, color theory, all of that. But then some people started telling him "hey, you don't need all that, just draw from your favorite artist and get your knowledge that way." And so he did. Now he's been mired in tepid fan art for the past 3 years, not advancing, not improving his artwork. Just treading water.

So please, listen, but take into consideration everything you hear. You're the only one who can make the distinction between what's good and what's bad for you.

[wallychairmover]

and all of this is why I love art:D everybody knows everything and for something that's so personal and subjective everyone has an opinion. makes for great variety and efforts to win our personal battles I think. Personally I love to hate other artists and styles, it makes me work harder to get better at defending what I believe in artistically. Don't take my hate as an actual hatred, but more of a flag wavin choose yer side in a paintball match kind of hate.

[DanSTC]

Originally posted by lavhoes
I think it pretty much all comes down to "you can't become a chicken by shoving feathers up your ass."

If someone does everything else, like buying "the clothes," the material, copying the favorite artist, coming up with absolutely ridiculous art theories, in short everything except actually putting in the work, then that person's opinions are those that we should take very lightly.

Doesn't mean we're not going to listen. Art is art, after all, and I've seen some beautiful art come out of people who never draw from life. There's a lot to be learned from everybody. However, 9 times out of 10 what we are going to hear has absolutely no worth at all.

So yeah, listen to everybody, but be careful what you hear. A friend of mine back home was on his way towards a beautiful art style. He was sketching his friends, drawing from life, color theory, all of that. But then some people started telling him "hey, you don't need all that, just draw from your favorite artist and get your knowledge that way." And so he did. Now he's been mired in tepid fan art for the past 3 years, not advancing, not improving his artwork. Just treading water.

So please, listen, but take into consideration everything you hear. You're the only one who can make the distinction between what's good and what's bad for you.

You're preaching to the choir here, buddy. :cool:

[softdrawer]

i dunno, im a tripped out artist living in his own world...what are we talking about anyway ?

[Szyslack]

sparth does abstract stuff. nobody seems to mind that.

[John]

Hey, I know i'm pretty late with this, but i just didn't think about this much.
I'm really interested in everything visual, be it modern art, fine art, anime, design, you name it. So when people say they like or make art, no matter which kind, i'm crazy to hear their opinion. I ask them about anything, what they make, how they do it, why they do it, what they think about it, and how they accomplish what they want. I just listen and think about what i hear. Some people acting artsy are actually pretty cool. Some are not. Those who are not get caught up in the bullsh*t they talk after a while. Nobody can stand telling things that they *know* have no substance to someone who listens intently.
Just keep asking "And then?" / "Oh, and why's that?" / "No, really? How?" / "Oh, the novelist phase of neo barock on crack? Oh my, i've never heard of that before! Where does that come from?".
That way you're are friendly and don't spoil a potentially useful contact, while still pissing off those who deserve it.

[Erik]

If she's good looking you could try to either do her or try to get her to pose for you.

(Excerpt from: "Hormones, the fuel of the teenage body" by A.S. Sholle)

[DanSTC]

Originally posted by Ancient Kitten
Hey, I know i'm pretty late with this, but i just didn't think about this much.
I'm really interested in everything visual, be it modern art, fine art, anime, design, you name it. So when people say they like or make art, no matter which kind, i'm crazy to hear their opinion. I ask them about anything, what they make, how they do it, why they do it, what they think about it, and how they accomplish what they want. I just listen and think about what i hear. Some people acting artsy are actually pretty cool. Some are not. Those who are not get caught up in the bullsh*t they talk after a while. Nobody can stand telling things that they *know* have no substance to someone who listens intently.
Just keep asking "And then?" / "Oh, and why's that?" / "No, really? How?" / "Oh, the novelist phase of neo barock on crack? Oh my, i've never heard of that before! Where does that come from?".
That way you're are friendly and don't spoil a potentially useful contact, while still pissing off those who deserve it.

Hahaha...this is an excellent idea. :)

Yeah, the next time some busybody decides to tell you what they *know* just kill them with kindness in the form of polite questions about their opinion and let them dig their own grave if they're so willing.

[AnarchyAo2]

I like abrsract art. i think its great. I don't like nonobjective art. I just don't get it.

[amphex]

i said this already but i am art-sy so i will say it again
hey
fuck you guys
artsy people are cool!!!

so F off!!! ... foff!!!!

[dfacto]

I think Amphex wants attention. (hell, lookat his signature)

[AnarchyAo2]

Aww, Amphex. Do you have ADD? I'm sorry...:(

[amphex]

dfacto : have you taken a psychology course lately, or are you just naturally that observant? :)

AnarchyAo2 : No, why?

[bizarre]

um... before people start throwing punches and kicking teeth,

artsy people who are artsy just so they can be known as artsy piss me off.

people who try to appear to be intellectual by being artsy annoy me too.

but people who let those kinds of people annoy them annoy me too.

look. they're not going to get a job, when it comes down to it. if they've got sketchbooks full of fan art and anime and cartoonish attempts at portraits, or "master studies" (where it's really just a rendering of someone else's work, not a study of their technique or methodologies or... um... idiosyncracies... i'm artsy... aren't i?) then it's really not that impressive.

sure, those guys get the hotties who are looking for a new lay, the cheerleaders who are sick of the jocks and go for the emo kids cuz they're all sensitive n stuff, but... well, woopdie doo. except it's kind of annoying seeing public displays of affection... that's what they're called, right? when your girlfriend lives on the other side of the fucking continent and you only get to see her on holidays and you fucking miss her so much and she cries on the phone because she misses you and it tears you apart that you can't be there with her and...

but enough about me...

artsy people, if they weren't artsy, they'd be something else. it's not a lifestyle. it's not a commitment. it's a fucking outfit. when they get sick of it they can sorta half commit to another image to stare at in the mirror.

artists do it to do it. artsy people do it to look like they're doing it to do it.

ooh, i just tricked you into reading a few hundred words of complete bullshit! haha! how do you feel now? feel like an ass? hehe.



idiot.

(kidding)

[dfacto]

Bizarre is just bitter because the artsy types stole his ladayz.

[amphex]

btw - i was being sarcastic that entire time.
I dont know why I was being sarcastic....but I am not "art-sy", and I dont have any opinion in this matter :)

haha sorry

[OLSEN]

It´s artsy people with no idea and bad makeup that will be buying your art when you´re all great and famous, so perhaps you should be a little kinder to them.