Learning art by yourself

[Vatsel]

I am currently in my senior year in high school, working on getting better to reach the level of employment in the concept art industry.
So I was thinking that instead of spending a lot of money on education, I might just take the next year off (not this one, I'll finish hs), and work on getting better, studying as much as I can (that will be about 12 hours a day).

With the powerful tool that is the internet, and mainly, the many discussion boards and their critique sections and tutorials, I think I might just have enough resources in my reach.
Is that true? Are there obvious limitations I'm missing here?

It seems that motivation won't be a problem, so my next thing to worry about is of course the way I practice, and refining my ways of maximizing learning.
Any thoughts on that as well?

Personal stories of how you/people you know of learned to draw/paint by themselves are very welcome too.

[Liffey]

It is absolutely possible. I've learned more from CA than from art school. Download some of the MB training videos, and track down the free Loomis downloads. Just make sure you keep your motivation up, don't start taking days off or anything like that.

Of course, there are also plenty of benefits from art school. Both options will work better for different people.

[nauvice]

Being self taught, you can focus your time and energy on learning what you want to learn instead of other things you're not at all interested in or you wont use in the future, and you expose yourself to artists who's work you admire and others who share similar interests as you.

Being in school/atelier/etc. you're exposed to many different things you would have otherwise not discovered on your own or it would have taken you longer... such as other artists who's style you never considered before but you learn from anyway, other mediums to use in your art, etc.

Which one is better is subjective, I personally learned a lot from both school and learning on my own, but I know some great artists who didn't need school, and others who discovered themselves in the school they went to.

But if I can give a suggestion... always keep an open mind, inspiration never comes from only one source and you can learn a lot from art outside of your genre... I noticed some people here hate manga for example.... its complete ignorance.

[Farvus]

Yes. Learning by yourself is doable and can lead to good results. I believe there's enough information on the net that could help achieve professional level. All Loomis books together are pretty huge heap of knowledge that can't be swallowed at once. I still find something new in them.
I think the most important thing is to keep open mind as much as possible. There are many moments when you get stuck on certain technical problems. Without experimentation it's hard to find the way around them.

The main downside is that it's very lonely journey. I sometimes wish I had some mentor with much bigger knowledge and skill that would lead me in right direction.

[s.ketch]

Using the internet, and this site to teach yourself works only if you make it work for you and you work for it. As someone who has an on-again-off-again relationship with school, I can say for myself that it's difficult to attempt being self taught. One has to have incredible will power and dedication in order to get the most out of what CA.org has to offer. And there are those who have done it. There have been people who had no idea what they wanted to do for a living, picked up on their hobby, worked hard and now they have a job in the industry.

You have to read as many threads as you can. Post as much as you can. Really dedicate yourself to taking and giving feedback. Buy the videos and live classes that you need, and save up for workshops. You have to be a machine, an unstoppable tank of learning. Completely immerse yourself in your craft and become the best you can be.

It's a long and hard road but it is worth it imo.

[dierat]

Personally I think trying to take some introductory drawing classes would be very beneficial to you. For me, the first year of school in an art major totally changed my art. If I had stayed home and tried to recreate the experience, it just wouldn't have been the same. If you can find an organization nearby that does workshops or figure drawing sessions could be a great supplement to your home-school program. Also check out the CA atelier schedule/progression of courses (http://conceptart.org/school/info.shtml#); that could be a great starting point for how to structure your day.

[Nrx]

i was going to go the self tutoring route, but i found it very hard and lonely. working a job with no creative outlet almost full time with really cool people, but not the type with goals and ambition, dragged me down and sucked the passion from me.

now im at art college and the course is all over the place. 1 week we folded beer mats and bus tickets, for 3 days we made pictures by a automated process, and although it wasnt always my cup 'o tea its a hell of alot better than moving boxes for a living, and that gives me the drive to work hard at everything.

When i consider all the amazing people i've met through college, id never advise anyone to teach themselves if they can avoid it. If this is somthing you want as your life you need to be immersed in it, and thats hard when your main source of company is yourself.

but on the otherhand look at all the people who have done it through ca. all i can say is my side of the coin is very rarely represented here, dont underestimate how difficult it is on your own

[Raoul Duke]

buy Bridgmans (http://www.amazon.com/Bridgmans-Life-Drawing-George-Bridgman/dp/0486227103/ref=pd_sim_b_3) books "Life Drawing" and "The Human Machine"

Loomis is copyright free so you can download his books here (http://www.placidchaos.com/AM/index.php/2006/02/21/andrew_loomis)

Copy from the greatest of all time. It hurts your pride, but you can learn allot from studying an image from the masters.

You may want to seek out a great teacher to take basic classes from, so you can learn to teach yourself, it may not be an option for you, but if there are any ateliers in your area give them a shot. There are little important things you can only learn from a real flesh and blood teacher.

STRAP IN! it's going to be a loooonnnggg bumpy ride.

[TASmith]

For now, go for it. Later you can always decide to go to school if you want.

[Benjie]

I’m in exactly the same position, almost finished high school, weighing up the benefits of both options. iv talked to few professionals and based on what they have said this is what I know.

-if your dedicated, and prepared to work your ass off you can get there.

-if you want to go to school, then go to the good ones!, like the CA Atelier

-set yourself a goal!, iv decided that ill be freelancing for 3 years while working a part time job, hopefully earning 1000 NZD a month, which would eventually mean I would have around 30,000 by the end of it, enough to get my self to the Atelier.

-University is good in that you are able to meet other people like yourself, make contacts and become more inspired and motivated to keep working. However it also bogs you down with things that you don’t really need or want to do.

-Yes a degree is useful, but what really counts is your skill and experience. Working hard and freelancing for a while will get you not only money, but will give you first hand experience in the industry itself.

-By the way if you learn your fundamentals like anatomy, perspective, colour theory, and so on it will make it easier in the long run.

Hope that helps a bit

YOU ARE NOT ALONE MY BROTHER!

[danlambert]

I think you need to consider how you work best, personally I know that I work better having deadlines and someone over my shoulder pushing me, so I think I work better when I'm in some kind of school environment. Even if you go to art school you will be doing a lot of your learning on your own anyway so I think it's more a matter of if you think you work better in that sort of environment. If you do, you will probably get a lot out of school. However if you think you work better independently then school may not be your best bet.

[kelly x]

personally I went the route of self training, books, DVD's, and submitting tons of stuff in my CA sketch book and different challenges. I started about 1.5 years ago with no training at all and have worked like a maniac full time learning all I could on my own.
The key is knowing what environment you work best in like Dan L just said, I work much better on my own due to being kind of shy to work in front of a lot of people and easily distracted in classes. It's up to you and what will motivate you to work your butt off!

[TASmith]

"I started about 1.5 years ago with no training at all and have worked like a maniac full time learning all I could on my own."

And you're damn good. Don't forget to mention that. I've seen the five star threads in the FF section! ;)

[Baron Impossible]

Self-teaching is perfectly possible but a bit of advice - don't take too much notice of individual stories in making your decision. If self-taught person A is a top guy at XYZ Games then don't think Hey, if he can do it so can I! Maybe you can but realise that for every one of him there are a thousand others who went the same self-teaching route and never made it. It's good to be inspired but even better to be realistic.

The upshot is, do a lot of research, like you seem to be doing. Then sit down and assess it all with your mid- to long-term goals in mind. I wish all these options had been available when I was your age. Basically there was nothing and it resulted in me not picking up the proverbial pencil until my mid 30s. So carry on what you're doing and don't rush your decision.

[jcpahl]

don't take too much notice of individual stories in making your decision. If self-taught person A is a top guy at XYZ Games then don't think Hey, if he can do it so can I!

I have to respectfully disagree with that; Person A didn't make it by having the Art Gene that you don't have, and if you think that way, it's going to be a constant drag and a doubt on you. Person A worked like a crazy person, and they did it in the same 24 hour days that you have; I'd submit that the first prerequisite for being self-taught is belief in yourself.

[Baron Impossible]

I have to respectfully disagree with that; Person A didn't make it by having the Art Gene that you don't have, and if you think that way, it's going to be a constant drag and a doubt on you. Person A worked like a crazy person, and they did it in the same 24 hour days that you have; I'd submit that the first prerequisite for being self-taught is belief in yourself.

Well I was talking about the self-taught aspect as opposed to formal tuition. Just because a method works for one person doesn't mean it will work - or even can work - for everyone. We all know of exceptions to the rule in every industry but that doesn't mean their method should be followed. That's nothing to do with having a positive attitude, which is a requirement whatever learning method you opt for.

EDIT: re-reading what I wrote perhaps I didn't make it clear I was contrasting one method with another and not the whole idea of an art career. To give an analogy, a local businessman was recently on TV talking about his childhood. He left school at 14 and sold stuff on the streets, left home at 16 and slept on friend's floors whilst he blagged and sold stuff and gradually built up a business. Now he's a millionaire many times over. But if a 14 year old asked me how to succeed in business I wouldn't advise him to leave school and sell stuff on the streets, I'd say get good grades and go to business school.

[Costau]

Yeah, but the 95% of those 1000 never came to CA. :yayca:

[Falchion]

I'm pretty much self-taught. Only had something like two actual legitimate art classes. Everything else is from personal experience.

[jcpahl]

Well I was talking about the self-taught aspect as opposed to formal tuition. Just because a method works for one person doesn't mean it will work - or even can work - for everyone. We all know of exceptions to the rule in every industry but that doesn't mean their method should be followed. That's nothing to do with having a positive attitude, which is a requirement whatever learning method you opt for.

Well that I agree with, at least in theory. But just to be contrary, I'd suggest that most of art can't be taught, and even the successes that went the art-tuition route are self-taught to a large degree. And that's assuming they were lucky and learned from teachers that actually had practical knowledge to impart, instead of knowledge about how to express yourself with glitter and macaroni.

edit: one other point occurs to me: of all the self-taught artists who give up, what percentage of art-school attendees leave school without the skills to become professional artists (but with enormous debts)? I'd bet even the self-taughts have a higher success rate.

[aefx]

Go to school when you're young, you have the rest of your life to learn on your own... it's not always easy financially later on if you change your mind and decide you do indeed want to go to school.

[Baron Impossible]

Well that I agree with, at least in theory. But just to be contrary, I'd suggest that most of art can't be taught, and even the successes that went the art-tuition route are self-taught to a large degree. And that's assuming they were lucky and learned from teachers that actually had practical knowledge to impart, instead of knowledge about how to express yourself with glitter and macaroni.

Could be, which emphasises the need to do research of all aspects :)

edit: one other point occurs to me: of all the self-taught artists who give up, what percentage of art-school attendees leave school without the skills to become professional artists? I'd bet the self-taughts have a higher success rate.

Again, you might be right, but that wasn't really the point I was making. A thread like this inevitably attracts comment from a disproportionate number of people who have self-taught with some degree of success (no pun intended). People who have found that self-teaching doesn't work for them, and those who have had formal tuition, will tend to stay away and not present their stories. A classic example of data availability. I'm not suggesting that self-taught people fail in their aim any more or less than formally qualified ones, rather that by placing too much emphasis on volunteered stories in this context will skew the decision making process.

[dabzo]

I'd say that the biggest thing about being self-taught it NOT being headstrong in your own methods. If you steer clear of the "myway or the highway" method of self-taught and take anything and eveything that you can from your peers advice (and yes, it will get hard after being told your anatomy is off for the 10,000th time ><) then you're set.

That's not to say that formal post secondary education is without value. There is plenty of good to that as well.

The important thing is that you do what you love.

[Krato]

Hey mark, nice thread, i am seriously considering doing what your doing for next year as well. since i too am a highschool senior.. thing is though, after the one year of studies i was planning on attending a school like gnomon for a year and really refine what i learn so i can be better prepared for the future. You should probably look into something like that too, it would really help!

[Ivory_Oasis]

When I first started I was busy with other things...so tried to teach myself.

Spent almost 2 years doing that while I was finishing up my other things, and improved so so so much!

But, then I realized there was just so much I didn't know and decided to get a little real training / totally devote myself to getting better for a year.

Thats where I am now, started taking classes at gnomon and will see how far I can get in a year.

I think there is a lot to be said for school environment. Lots of times I would take a break from drawing... or run out of good ideas on what I should be working on... school gives a kind of mindless backup to tell you what you need to be doing (the assignments and whatever subject they are teaching at that point). Also having teachers to go to that can give shortcuts / tricks or feedback is really helpful, no need to re-invent the wheel all the time.

[DanielC]

yep, unless you know and are honest about yourself, i would not recommend it.

[Raoul Duke]

Mark what area do you live in? There maybe a tiny practical school you can go to. I have to say I'm lucky enough to live in an area with best little art schools nobody has heard of. I have gone to Watts Atelier (http://www.wattsatelier.com/org/WattsAtelier/cms.aspx) and studio 2nd street (http://www.studio2ndstreet.com/tutorials.html) I have allso bounced around some decent community colleges. You can attend all of these schools at the cost of a slave wage paycheck.

If I had to travel to go to attend any school I'd go to LAAFA (http://www.laafa.org/atelier/), the Concept Design Academy (http://www.conceptdesignacad.com/44.html) or gnomon (http://www.gnomonschool.com/)

I know going full time isn't for you, but I wouldn't recommend doing strictly online or tutorials, at best they only do half the job it takes to make it. IMAO

[Jushra]

You have an advantage in your hands already, that being you know what you want to do. You also have far more tools than graduates even a few years ago had. That being said, to study on your own, you'll have to focus on various areas and not blindly draw just to draw. Get an assessment from a few artists you respect, that will be honest with you and build from there. Work on things in phases, sort of build yourself a curriculum and keep organized. Also, set aside time to study the masters, artrenewal.org is a good resource for that. Study, study.

[Costau]

I found this clip at Artrenewal.org which I found pretty straight forward, and I figured it would help some of you out as well in starting. From my experience I found it difficult not to jump around a lot with what I'm learning, but this helped with finding some focus.

I agree with the advice that you really need to be honest with yourself while studying alone, so you can make good progress without hitting too many brick walls.

Bust some ass.
812909

EDIT
oh! This as well...
812925

Sorry, and this to keep things objective...
812944

[Amber Alexander]

If you do the majority of your learning on your own, you may want to consider taking a figure drawing class at your local community college. Community College is generally very cheap and you should have access to a live model every class, which is invaluable.

[CKLamb]

I would have to say go to school...but it has nothing to do with the technical learning of art. The technical side will always be up to you, no matter if you are self taught or not. A collegiate curriculum, however, will expand your horizons and expose you to things within History, Literature, Science, Philosophy, Mathematics, and Language that you will most likely not get through a self-taught curriculum. It will force you to open your eyes to the world in many respects. And, consequently, it will make your work much more informed and guide you into uncharted territory. To be an artist is to be more than a hand.

NOW, don't mistake this as me saying a self-taught artist can't obtain these things. I am simply saying that when you are 100 percent nose to the grindstone on Art by yourself, diversions such as studying Classics or Art History may derail your momentum. Having a class schedule and professors will help keep you in line.

[TASmith]

....at a tremendous cost. You can buy books on all these subjects at a fraction of the cost. The only valid reasons to go to college and grad school at today's prices are

1. it'll certify you for a specific career, with a salary high enough to pay off your debt.
2. Scholarships and/or financial aid make it free.

[Xeon_OND]

Sometimes I always wonder why art schools are so fricken expensive.
I really don't understand. A standard normal Bachelor degree in engineering / HR / accounting etc., costs way less than those US$160,000 art schools.

Maybe all the lecturers are of the old masters' standards, and all the materials provided are made of top-grade platinum. And maybe they hire Hollywood celebrities as models for students to draw.

[CKLamb]

Nothing is free TASmith. Time and money my friend, you're going to pay one way or the other.

And, as far as Art School vs. University, I would definitely go with University. I went to a small state university then went to SAIC for some post-bac. Other then status level, there was no difference in the courses.

University Cost ($6k a year before Grants and Scholarship, $5.2k after Scholarship)
SAIC ($30k a year before Grants and Scholarship, $7k a year after applying Grants and Scholarships)

[TASmith]

CK, you did it right, minimizing the costs. Not everyone can do that. The same advice isn't applicable to everyone - some kids get to college not knowing what they want to do yet. If you don't mind my asking, what was your major?

[CKLamb]

I received a BFA in Fine Arts, majoring in Painting/Drawing and minoring in Art History.

However, I spent my first two years as a political science major, had I not taken Classical and Modern Political Philosophy I would have never had the gumption to commit to a Fine Arts degree. The readings and discussions I had in that course changed my life.

And, as a quick note, I just recently started dabbling in commercial art, my primary studies are centered around a career in academic art. My MA program starts next year, after that I plan on heading to a larger state university for my MFA, which will help once I start looking for a professorship somewhere.

[KonnA]

It could work very well for you, however I could NOT do this. My self motivation is terribly low but when I'm at college I work no matter what.

[Xeon_OND]

And, as a quick note, I just recently started dabbling in commercial art, my primary studies are centered around a career in academic art. My MA program starts next year, after that I plan on heading to a larger state university for my MFA, which will help once I start looking for a professorship somewhere.
Just curious, but is there a PhD for art, after getting MFA and BFA?
I think art is the only discipline that doesn't have a PhD. Maybe there is, but I haven't seen or heard one in my entire life (Doctoral degree in art / PhD in Art). :^^:

[CKLamb]

Xeon- Yes and no. I've heard of a couple PhD programs springing up, alongside honorary doctoral titles (I think Wyeth was conferred one such title)...can't think of any off the top of my head though...but, anyways, they aren't gaining any steam. There are PhD programs in related subjects, like Aesthetic Studies, that do seem to be springing up, but, ultimately, I think there is a consensus that a PhD is just unnecessary in our field....it would kind of be like getting a degree in Bullshitting at that point.

If you're into art and academics there are PhD programs in Museum Studies, Art History, Aesthetic Studies, Critical Theory, and Preservation/Restoration.

[LORD M]

I am learning by myself right now, since I never went to an art school and are studying COMPLETELY different subjects then art (sometimes I wish I went to art school though...). But I got a great friend who's self thaught and he helps me a lot, encourages me, gives me so much great advice and critique, shows me techniques - he's the one who made me start taking art more seriously. I have been very lazy when it comes to studies and that is why I haven't progressed, I realise that now and there's no excuses for it. But I have decided to really push it now, study more then I have ever before and study hard each day, because I want to reach my goals - even if they seem like a hundred miles away right now I want to reach them soooo bad.

And I have started watching Bob Ross, and he cheers me up as nothing else when it comes to art, and as my great friend say: don't see a drawing that didn't come out as you thought as a failure, see it as a progress, another study on the way to your goal (not exactly his words but you get the point).