Curvilinear Perspective: Methods to Fake/Cheat It?

[Nomnom De Guerre]

I don't know how you do things, but when I draw a 1, 2, 3 or 4 point perspective drawing, I don't start by drawing a mass of intersecting lines on the basis of all the VP's I'm going to use, and then marking a drawing which conforms to them exactly.

Instead, I'll just mark my horizon/eye line, then get a compositional sketch down, and then gradually flesh out the forms so that they meet at set VP's, which reveal themselves mostly in the course of working.

And yet, all the guides that I can find for curvilinear perspective seem to present the idea as if there's no other way of going about it than just drawing a sphere and drawing on it.

I need a way to get the same aesthetic essence without being so constrained by mathematics. I need an approach with more of a focus on composition than upon precision.

I read somewhere that the great comic-book artists and golden-age animation background painters had lots of ways of faking it - and I think that a method like theirs would be exactly what I'm after.

But, as for what exactly those methods are - I can't get any precise information.

So do any of you know?

Thanks so much! Bye! :batgirl:

[Kamber Parrk]

Nomnom,

This guy has books (with included proper grids, I'm assuming):

http://www.termespheres.com/perspective.html

You may have run across this site:

http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/perspect5.html#curvilinear

There's a site "Khulsey" [sp.] that I think has some stuff.

Otherwise, you're probably going to be doing historical research requiring foreign language knowledge!

Probably a lot easier if you can work off someone's pre-manufactured grid.

But, I think it's a bit more complex than just sticking in a 4th VP!:)

[Nomnom De Guerre]

HI KAMBER YOU ARE MY FAVORITE :geekg:

hi :)

Well, I already know the rules of perspective for 1-4 (although the way I learnt 4 didn't show me how to make the lines from any of the VP's curved, as they are on the termespheres website - wish I knew) but this curvilinear thing just isn't making any sense.

I'd seen both links before. I'm wary of ordering any more instructional materials because I think that the ceoncept of curvilinear perspective is doomed to only ever be explained in an obtuse and overtly mathematical fashion. I've never seen it explained once in a way that makes any sense to me and the language this artist uses leads me to believe that he won't be any different.

At this point what I'm really after is just a sensible system for faking it. If someone could just show me a way to get some reasonably accurate curves into a four-point perspective drawing, that would be close enough for me to be content.

I learnt 4-point from Matessi's book, and his way of doing it produces a diamond; no purdy curves :(
Maybe the trick is to make the thing like a parabolic design? I don't know :(

anyway thanks again you're a nice bye

[Anid Maro]

There might be something in my sig for you.

[Nomnom De Guerre]

While I am grateful to you for making such a thread, it was actually my inability to glean any useable information from it that caused me to start this thread. :( Sorry.

I'm looking for a simpler way to do it that starts with composition instead of a pageful of lines. If that means I can't get it exactly, that's okay - the point is to fake it reasonably well.

[Elwell]

I'm looking for a simpler way to do it that starts with composition instead of a pageful of lines. If that means I can't get it exactly, that's okay - the point is to fake it reasonably well.

Approach it like regular 1/2/3 point, but use arcs instead of straight lines.

[darkwolf29a]

There might be something in my sig for you.

Thanks very much for the link to your post. I will be testing that out, as soon as I'm done with my latest school project. Thanks very much for the expertise and ease of use.

Nomnom...I would say to stick with 3 point for awhile, until you can understand it well. As I have noticed from my perspective class....it all builds on each other. 1pt builds into 2pt, and so on. Make sure that you have a firm grasp on the fundamentals...and you should do fine. ;)

[Nogarkhaz]

Usually there are 2 ways to approach perspective - one is to draw the horizon, the vp's, and then draw all the necessary lines to make it absolutely correct. The Mathematical way, as you say it. Anid's tutorial on curvilinear perspective is the best tutorial on this matter I've found so far. It is really simple to get.
The other way is the more fun way, where you have more freedom, and you draw it so it feels correct, doing everything by eye. With curvilinear it is harder here as it is hard to imagine the objects curving and draw them without drawing all the necessary curves. Eventually you will learn to do it without any maths, but it might take time, in which you have to use those maths.

I know how boring is to draw perspective before you actually start drawing stuff. That's why my perspective is wrong most of the time, but I'm learning.

[Kamber Parrk]

Hey Nomnom,

Honestly, I think Matessi IS trying to FAKE Curvilinear Perspective with his limited discussion of 4-Point!

THAT, is the gist of my previous "outrage" re his method as relates to one of your previous posts that I responded to.

Thought: I know that "Photo Shop" allows for the correction of "barrel distortion"-- perhaps you can work with Barrel Distortion in Photo Shop to play with the effects that you desire?

I really don't know.

These things are beyond me!

[Anid Maro]

I'm looking for a simpler way to do it that starts with composition instead of a pageful of lines. If that means I can't get it exactly, that's okay - the point is to fake it reasonably well.

Pretty much what Elwell said.

Since you're not building up from a perspective grid and instead starting with a composition (and possibly a drawing), I'd first work out the image in a sketch without worrying about perspective and then I'd redraw it but this time "correct" the drawing to fit on the perspective lines.

If you really wanna work it over proper, you'll be considering field of view as well. But since you're just interested in faking it, if you understand how it works on the grid then you can fake it reasonably.

Read up all you can on the matter in order to understand it, but I'll try to break down some of it for you here:

Lets approach this from another common name for this perspective, "Five-Point Perspective"

Set yourself up with one point right in the center. This point represents what is directly ahead of you.

Set up another point directly left of that center point. This point represents what is directly to your left.

Set up a third point directly right of the center point. This point represents what is directly to your right.

Place a fourth point directly above the center point. This point represents what is straight above you.

Put a final point directly below the center point. This point represents what is at your feet.

This perspective encompasses both 180 degrees of vision from your left to your right and 180 degrees of vision from your feet to the sky. Unlike linear perspective that focuses on a single view point, curvilinear perspective has many view points (in the most simple form, five view points). In my tutorial, the additional points I set up would be used to illustrate either a field of view in excess of 180 degrees or to illustrate objects that are not directly facing the viewer.

The arcs that are drawn in my tutorial represents the arc of your head as you look from one point to the next. Similarly the curved surfaces drawn in curvilinear perspective is how each view point would look had you been turning your head to look at it. A great example of this would be a panoramic view (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panorama), which is a wide angle view of how an area would look as you turned around to view it all.

I hope that explanation helps you and I'm sorry I hadn't said more earlier, I was pressed for time when I made my "check my sig" post. If the above info makes sense to you, then you'll understand why the lines curve and you'll be able to fake the effect reasonably well.

Also you're welcome DarkWolf, and thanks to Nogarkhaz for the props. :)