Full Sail Elitism? :(

[Painting Mantis]

I've heard good things and bad things about Full Sail and have come to form my own opinions that while taking that path may be a good choice for some, it would not be the best choice for my own personal experience as an artist. However I'm finding something a bit disturbing coming out of Full Sail, and I just wanted to get everyones' opinions on this and whether or not my experience is representative of the school.

I have a friend -good buddy, great imagination- who began attending Full Sail a year ago fresh out of high school. I have chosen to attend a smaller state college for my associates years to limit costs and will transfer to a larger college to finish my BFA. For the first couple of semesters she kept reporting to me how boring the classes were and kept remarking about the lack of talent among the student body, that she didn't feel challenged in that area, and apparently that I could knock most of their socks off.

Then at around the turn of the 3rd or 4th semester her attitude began to change. Suddenly Full Sail was the best school on the planet and prospectively the ultimate bridge to success in the industry. She began to thumb her snoot and consider herself better and more experienced than everyone else because of her education. (Even though her art has notably not really improved. Sure, she knows how to use all the fancy programs and stuff now, but her actual draftmanship has only improved as much as it usually would in a one year time frame.) Now she's this cocky, arrogant snob who thinks that anyone not attending Full Sail is a joke and has made a poor choice. However at the same time it almost feels like her sudden aggression may be fueled a bit by insecurity because she's always on the defensive. I can't even hold up a conversation with her anymore without her constantly finding ways to insult me as an artist -both covertly and blatantly- and bragging about her 'experience' and how much of a leg-up she has in the world over me and everyone else.

Do note that I said 'insult' and not 'critique' . I know what critique is, and I love it. I know that critique is the key to improvement and I've been bred to have tough skin as an artist and soak up all the critique I can get. Hers is blatant insult, that somehow in choosing a different school from Full Sail I've fallen behind the curve and don't stand a chance of ever breaking seriously into the industry. That my attempts at receiving an art education are laughable.

She doesn't seem to want to accept the fact that you get in what you put out no matter where you go.

So my question to you all is this: has anyone else had a similar experience with someone they know who's attended Full Sail? Do you know a Full Sail elitist? If this is just a freak incident then I may be getting the complete wrong impression, but it seems to me like the faculty at Full Sail may be trying to pump their student body full of shiny pie-in-the-sky ideals and expectations in order to promote their image.

[Vertrucio]

It's not just full sail. There's a lot of places where, while the curriculum may be quite good, still suffer from a sense of entitlement or elitism. This isn't to knock the schools, but some students just let it get to their heads. A lot of private art schools do tend to inflate this, sometimes intentionally, often not, to try and get more students and keep more students by giving them the idea that this is the best place to learn and they're getting everything they need and that artists elsewhere aren't getting as good as you're getting.

Thankfully, these people are often weeded out of the industry in terms of larger group projects as their personalities get them looked down on by recruiters are studios. They eventually learn that their art school education means little when it comes time to look at portfolios, and go for the interview.

I know a few recruiters have straight up told me that they tend to prefer hiring people from smaller places, like my alma mater a California state university because our best students often are just as hard working as the best art school students, but with better personalities.

[Painting Mantis]

Wow, what a shame. That's actually really depressing. You'd think that these great artists would have enough insight to realize that skill isn't dependent on location, or even who's teaching. Michelangelo didn't have a school branded to him.

I just don't understand at all how these people let it get to their heads. It's so counter-intuitive. Saying that someone is better off for attending a certain school is like saying JIF peanut butter is better than Peter Pan peanut butter because it's plant is in Georgia. :\ Are people really brainwashed that easily?

[Konstruktion]

Are people really brainwashed that easily?

Yup. :sungod:

[Storyboard Dave]

Snobbery happens in all walks of life. The one thing about our industry that's still a truism is that we're still about output.

Nobody cares about the school they attended if they can't produce. It's all about drive, ambition, dedication and have it backed up with a small amount of talent.

[Kismet]

That's pretty funny, especially since last time I checked, Full Sail didn't have much of anything to be elitist about - if anything at all. I also don't understand why a female would brag about a school where men make up 85% of the student body. Unless she's... nah, I won't go there.

[Taxguy]

Sadly, many schools inculcate the belief that "their school" is top notch and better than anything else around. This has more to do with retaining students than anything else. Frankly, what school wants kids to transfer out?

In my humble opinion, Full Sail and other schools with a substantially compressed schedules, are doing a disservice to their students. Art takes time to master. Two and one-half years isn't enough time vs 4 years. In fact, the high tuition at Full Sail is almost what you would have paid for a reasonable four year school anyway. Personally, and this is my opinion, I would stay away from Full Sail. I actually feel sorry for those students.

[Ryn]

I also don't understand why a female would brag about a school where men make up 85% of the student body. Unless she's... nah, I won't go there.

Since she's a minority she isn't technically part of her own school? What? This makes no sense.

[Storyboard Dave]

It's a fine line between "being proud" and being a braggart about the school you're attending.

[kjdawson80]

Since she's a minority she isn't technically part of her own school? What? This makes no sense.

I thought Kismet was hinting at the fact that she may "get around" alot, since 85% of the student body is male... I could be wrong, though!

[Burtzum]

She sounds pretty silly. What about all the artists who were around before Full Sail existed? The field kind of had to exist before a school could be built geared towards said field. Also, *insert big long list of amazing artists who are pros in the field who did not go to Full Sail. Or who didn't go to any school at all, for that matter.*

I actually can't think of anyone who came out of Full Sail. But I don't pay much attention to who went where anyhow. *shrug*

Does Full Sail release student games like Guildhall does? I always thought that was pretty cool...

[Kismet]

Since she's a minority she isn't technically part of her own school? What? This makes no sense.

Oh, I'm sorry if you took it/read it the wrong way, but that's not what I was trying to say at all.

If I went to Full Sail, I'd feel pretty uncomfortable being around such a high amount of males (socially, that is). And one doesn't usually brag about discomfort. Unless she LIKES being part of the teeny-tiny female population, which was where I made my little joke that kjdawson80 picked up on.

But I swear I was only kidding. I promise. ;)

[Painting Mantis]

That actually may be part of it too. I think she's treated rather like a big fish in a small pond, and it makes sense that some of that may have to do with her gender.

I didn't know that statistic about Full Sail regarding the male vs female population. Weird. I wonder why.

[Bubs]

Here's a little story for those of you interested.


I didn't start drawing until my Junior year of High School. Long story short, Hurricane Rita (the storm right after Katrina) scared the hell out of everyone in Texas, and caused every able man, woman and child to get the fuck outta dodge, especially the New Orleans refugees.

And then right before the storm hit Galveston it dropped to a level 1 Hurricane.

My family was one of the only ones to stick around, so we avoided that entire traffic mess. Unfortunately, the storm knocked out the power to the entire grid, so my dad made us vamoose to my Grandmother's house, where they had power there. Got really bored at the house, saw a stack of paper and a pencil so I started to doodle for the hell of it (she was an art teacher).


Two hours later I decided to pursue it as a profession. True story, and that's the God's honest.


Since I started so late in the game, I knew full well that no art school was gonna accept me, and my parents were not gonna shell out a cool 100 Grand for an art education. So as you can imagine I was scared beyond imagining. Then I met an incredibly talented buddy of mine during my Senior year, who found out about Full Sail, and how much "better" and "cheaper" it was than other art schools. So we put all our eggs in that basket and hoped for the best.


Then about a month after graduating we found out the true stories about Full Sail, and how much of a crock of shit it really was. You're paying $60,000 for outdated equipment, a shoddy at best Art Fundamentals course, and a bunch of technical cheats to disguise your works into looking good.


We were pretty much devastated. Outright crushed even. We abandoned attending the school because it was clearly a money sham, and not what I personally was after.


To make a long story short, he went on his two year Mormon mission trip or whatever, and I was pretty much screwed, trying to figure out what the heck I was supposed to do.


Fortunately I caught wind of a nifty little school called Max the Mutt Animation School, located in Toronto, Canada. It's a private school with a max student base of 150 total. You don't mess around with bullshit history, government or math classes, you just focus on drawing and what you need to do to land a job in the industry. Tuition is dirt cheap for American students (a little over $30,000 for three years!), and i've learned so much about the industry and techniques it's almost mind boggling. They have a strict scheduling program like Full Sail offered, except you don't have retarded shit like exams at 5 in the morning or whatever.


Is Max the Mutt the best school out there? Absolutely not. No school is. Nothing will ever be tailor-made to your exact specifications when it comes to an education.


The point i'm trying to make is that this place was the best school for me at the time, and had exactly what I was looking for without pillaging my parent's budget. I'm very happy with my decision, but that's mainly because the place offered most of what I was looking for, and i've learned so many technical concepts relating to Bridgeman, Nicholaides and the like it's astounding.


Your girl buddy is being kind of a doof right now, and it's hindering her progress severely, but that shouldn't effect you. You need to focus on yourself and what you want out of your education, because in the end that's all that's going to matter.


Just take her elitism opinions and tell her to cram it.

[Taxguy]

Yes, I agree, Max the Mutt is a great, incredibly inexpensive place for what they offer. However, they are a traditional animation school. If that is your interest, Max the Mutt is fabulous. However, for other types of majors besides concept art and animation, Max the Mutt may not be the right school.

[Bubs]

Max the Mutt has a rather extensive 4-year illustration program, but from what i've seen it tends to focus heavily around comic book design and getting work in the industry.


Or maybe I only talk to the comic book crowd there, I dunno!


Max isn't for everyone; for what you're getting at the price it's an absolute steal compared to what you'd be paying for in the states, but the downside is that you virtually have no freedom there until your final year; prior to that they're going to drill you stupid with assignment, especially if you're in the concept art field. Those poor souls only average about four hours of sleep a night once they finish their homework.

If you already know how to obtain work in the field and want some more breathing room to work on your own thing, MTM may probably not be for you.

I would suggest Sheridan as well, but ever since they switched to a University degree program (forcing out a lot of their best instructors because of this) i'm not sure that I can in good faith. Plus you'd be dealing with the exact same bullshit that you have to put up with in the states (i.e. taking a bunch of useless classes that you don't need and other dumb, expensive fees).


Stay the hell away from OCAD. Sweet Jesus, what a trainwreck.

[cylibral]

Sorry to come in late into this discussion... But I really beg to differ on the education u get at Full Sail.... the only thing it can brag about it it;s recording degree grads.. I have met and worked with grads from that school.. Wasted their money as per them they never learned the fundamentals of their own field.. Meaning the school didnt force them to know the real deal.. Only those who applied themselves on their own did they learn... That to me is a bad education.... Waste of money on all parts... I have seem some of the worst animation come out of that school.. Art classes their seem to be a joke... As far as art... Gnomon is a better school... Art Center is a billion times better then any of the teachers at Full Sail... just look at the best designed cars in the street.

So u can break ur friends retarded concept of the school as a place to pay... for.. U can learn more with books and dvd's then that school.. Since all of them use Gnomon dvd's to learn... Which is sad.... if ur paying all that money in Orlando.... haha u can just watch some of the best in the industry teach u via dvd.. Second have u seen any real artists from that school be in a real art show... Not that i know of... Just to help u nail it to the ground... i met 5 who went there out of those 5 they can;t draw better then any 5 yr old ... yet they claimed that they paid attention in class.. SCAD can blow them away big time... SVA can nuke them all the time.. Ringling as well.. So tell ur friend to shut her pie hole if she can;t come up with a good enough reason as to why waste ur time and money in that area or school other then the fact to go see Mickey Mouse and universal studio theme park... hahaha....



G

[PieterV]

Tuition is dirt cheap for American students (a little over $30,000 for three years!)

I always have to swallow when I hear these kind of numbers, my school charges 500eur for a year without a scolarship...