UPDATED 09/24- important question for all current & upcoming art students

[Jason Manley]

If you could attend an online program with direct access to the top professionals from a variety of fields (depending on the area of focus...Fine Art, Animation, Concept Art, Illustration etc...), with each class taught by the very best in that area of expertise and it included opportunities for jobs, ability to expose your work to the top companies, galleries, art directors and the like...as well as had financial aid. If it was half the cost of a private art school like Ringling or Art Center or SCAD, would you do it?

Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?

Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?

If that program online had a defined and refined real world component, where you had the additional option to study during set times of year with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you? (imagine the conceptart.org workshops for weeks straight :) )

Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?

Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?

Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?

What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?

Please vote and discuss. If you have time I would be curious to your thoughts.

[aaro_n]

financial aid has WIN written all over it..and so does everything else :P

[Eva K]

The answer to all of these would be a big fat yes ;)
I would've voted Yes, absolutely! if it weren't for the degree problem (read below).

Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?
Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?

I'm from Iceland and over here the student loan requirements are extremely strict; it's extremely difficult to get a loan for a foreign school that doesn't give out degrees (especially art schools for some reason..). They've been known to accept diploma programs though, but there's a lot of paperwork involved and needed from the school in question to be accepted. So to me, the degree (or some sort of accreditation) is a large factor for me and probably many other non-US residents.

However scholarships are always great, and they always make people push themselves more to be able to get them, resulting in more improvement and better work.

If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?

I'm already swayed ;)
But seriously, as a student who has experienced both onsite and online school environments full time (Academy of Art University - Illustration Major), an onsite option, even just for a month, would be a huge advantage. It's simply the 'connection' to the real world that makes a whole lot of difference. I've had teachers online who simply felt like teacher 'bots' instead of actual human beings, and then I've had online teachers whom I felt were standing right beside me by giving out audio critiques (instead of written), sharing stories from their life, etc.

I'm rambling, but my point is that having an onsite option makes the school experience more real.

Also, the chance of getting to experience art in a major European city is a very interesting choice, however I feel that that particular option should be optional to students, such as the summer classes. I've traveled a lot and as someone tight on money I wouldn't want to have to spend the money to go somewhere I've already been and seen before (I hope this makes sense).

However, if it were a workshop, that's a whole nother deal. I just wonder how you're going to make the flight costs included in the tuition, because I'm guessing that non-US residents will want to apply as well and depending on their location their flights can cost a whole lot more.

Just my 2c. Thanks again for all your work and effort making this happen, it's really appreciated! :cheerleader:

[Helioth]

all of the yes options basically :)

[Kamikazebob]

Bloody Hell, Yes on all fronts.

[Liffey]

If I could get scholarships applied to this, then I would seriously consider it.

[Harkins]

Sign me up.

[Volchiha]

I'm already studying, and if I wish to study further, a program would be much better for me, especially if I have a job at the same time. Personally, I'm more interested in the knowledge I can gain after I have my degree under my belt. So long as it's as rigorous and insightful as any other class, I'd go for it! =D

[britishrebel04]

I'd be there in an instant! ESP if financial aid was offered! :lifedrawing:

One question I do have is whether or not the degree would hold any standing, such as a BFA, MFA, or Certification. Will companies acknowledge it?

LOVE the idea!

[Wr00m]

This would be a dream come true for me as this is my last year in highschool. But unfortunately this would surley be too expensive since I live in Sweden and there aren't many opportunities for things like this here.
I should've probably picked Yes, if I could get a scholarship but I already clicked Yes, absolutely. :]

[Wr00m]

This would be a dream come true for me as this is my last year in highschool. But unfortunately this would surley be too expensive since I live in Sweden and there aren't many opportunities for things like this here.
I should've probably picked Yes, if I could get a scholarship but I already clicked Yes, absolutely. :]

[J Wilson]

I'm jealous. I wish something like this was available when I was in art school. How would studio classes like life drawing be tackled in this format? Would students have to find figure drawing sessions in their area?

I'd say the only real benefit to a traditional brick and mortar school is access to life drawing, and the friendships and connections you make with fellow students. There is something very nice about having a group of peers around you each day. Still, with all of the other downsides to traditional schools (including the high cost compared to what you actually get), I'd easily recommend something like this to new students.

[petitemistress]

Jason... you are the Micheal Moore of the Art World! ;p

I would love to participate, and I voted "yes if there was a way to study in person with instructors over the summer". I don't care about the degree, but that's just because I already have one. Nowadays for thrid world countries, a solid degree is the only way out, so it might be a plus.
Also keep in mind a lot of potential foreign students might have visa problems if the institute can't issue a student visa, I20 was it?

thanks for putting in so much hard work, tho :)

[rinjii]

if a degree was tied into the financial aid, accreditation [to get additional aid from the local government- damn bahamas] AND a degree [to appease the parental units], i would tell these other colleges to go fuck themselves and i'd apply in a heartbeat.

[Roselyn]

If i could get a good education trough that, and if can pay for it for reasonable price or get financial aid, that would be something i have always dreamt about. As long as my art gets better, degree is not something which is on my priority list. <.<;

[ricksmith]

i care not about the degree. quite a few have built empires without that fancy document. i do care about getting a solid education from apex industry folk and then applying it to my own work. i've been toying with the prospect of moving to the west coast just to go to the CA atelier for some time - but money has been a very very serious obstacle. if financial aid and a few loans can get me out there, i'm all for it.

as far as online instruction - it would be an added bonus, if it were to supplement the actual school. but i think that having the instructor (especially since the curriculum is of a visual nature) right there next to you telling you what you're doing right and correcting you when you make mistakes is the best part of the learning process.

thanks for posting this jason.

[AsaB]

That sounds just beyond dreamy! <3

However, since Eva K and I are fellow natives, I also share her problem. I don't see how I could afford this without loans (even with financial aid) and that probably won't happen if there won't be a degree, like she explained.

I certainly don't care about getting a fancy degree, it'd just make everything a whole lot easier, I'm afraid.

But everything else sounds right up my alley!

[Pezz]

Believe me, all those perks would sway me indefinitely. However, it may be problematic for those of us who are highly kinsethetic, tactile learners. We have to be in the presence, to see, do and feel as we go. Having a place specifically for learning without any home distractions is ideal. The immersion of a college campus and classroom is something I feel I sort of need, at least personally.

However, I still think it would be worth it,even if it were after finishing private college (VA department is a bonus there) or in a supplementary/part time fashion. Learning from the Pros is no joke.

[Cranberry]

Jason, you have just suggested what I have been dreaming of... What you are doing/hosting/organizing is my MAIN REASON for wanting to move away from Europe... I'll be honest on this; I've looked into a lot of US located specialized Art Schools, including Gnomon and other private schools, but I'm a student, I can't afford 10K on my education alone, that doesn't even include a place to stay and traveling costs, and afterwards I would just be flying back home, with a lot more experience but I would still be in Belgium, where concept artists are an unknown term... If something like this would be just a little closer and just a little less expensive, and at a more convenient timing, I'd sign up RIGHT. NOW.


Keep it coming Jason!

[Liam Harvey]

What is this Valhalla of learning that you speak of?

Seriously though.

I would very seriously consider this if it were a real option, if it was then remotely viable that i could participate, engage and have the opportunity to learn and study there, i would do everything in my power to do just that.

It does sound like it may be physically located somewhere far from where i live. That could either be a challenging obstacle or an opportunity for greatness.

This thing sounds like an all win situation so far.

[Elisabet Y.A.]

That sounds just beyond dreamy! <3

However, since Eva K and I are fellow natives, I also share her problem. I don't see how I could afford this without loans (even with financial aid) and that probably won't happen if there won't be a degree, like she explained.

I certainly don't care about getting a fancy degree, it'd just make everything a whole lot easier, I'm afraid.

But everything else sounds right up my alley!

Same problem here :( Iceland equals stupid paperwork and unfair rules.

[N D Hill]

Personally, I couldn't care less about a degree. I already have my BFA from a state university art program which gave me that piece of paper but failed to provide me with any sort of technical training or direction other telling me that I should get my MFA if I really wanted to go anywhere. I would love to receive focused technical training as well as an orientation to real-world and commercial application.

Money is the biggest problem for me now and cost of going back to school as well as relocating is a huge hurtle. I'm already in debt with student loans as it is. If I had access to scholarships, that would be huge incentive. Additionally, if a program had a decent professional placement rate as you are describing, that would make taking advantage of financial aid much more justifiable.

[Zirngibism]

I'm seriously interested in this program.

Would it definitely be ready by next fall? For a couple different reasons, the opening date of this program matters to me. I would need to know whether or not it would even be available, before I make a commitment to another school this spring. So, at this point in time, can you guarantee the existence of this program, or is it still up in the air?

Also, based on all the enthusiastic replies, it sounds as though there might be a lot of competition to get into this. How many "slots" will be open for the full program? I'm curious to know the ratio of students who want in compared to those who will get in, though I suppose you can't predict that as of now. Will we have to submit a portfolio in order to get accepted? How many "full" students are you going to accept at once?

I don't really care that much about the financial aid part, mainly because the school is affordable to begin with. Also, I don't want the quality of the program to be sacrificed for all of us in order for some people to get scholarships. I suspect there will be enough competition between people who want in that you'll find enough people willing to pay full price.

Finally, the only thing that concerns me about this is that I keep hearing that it will be your fellow students who teach you the most, and provide you with the most career opportunities through being contacts. While I can see this type of program facilitating communication between teacher and students, how can we create good, easy communication between students?

Maybe a private forum with video chat just for the "full-time" students to share stuff and learn? I'm sure you guys are figuring it out.



Anyhow, it's currently between this program and Entertainment Design at Art Center, though I would probably prefer this program if I can actually get more information about it. It's so mysterious right now that I've been leaning towards Art Center for the sake of the fact that it's less nebulous!



Another question: Will it be more lecture-driven (like the live streaming classes) or will it be more assignment & critique-driven?
Will the homework load be the same as the homework in a BFA program?

A note about homework: One of the reasons I would prefer this to be degree program is that it would mean that, being accredited, the homework isn't optional. I think worrying about certain due-dates and grades adds a level of extra pressure that will keep many of us from lapsing into just doing the assignments but not really finishing them in time, or to the degree of polish we might if it was graded.

Yet another question:
What skill level will this be for?

While I have nothing against beginners, but I don't want to be in a class full of them. I was hoping that, based on the caliber of the instructors, that this would be an intermediate to very advanced level course. Yes, I know I still have stuff to learn, that's why I want to possibly continue my education with this program. But I don't want to have my teachers taking up a bunch of time in showing someone how to draw a box in 1-point perspective, or what the definition of value is.

Maybe a different way to phrase the question would be in whether the teaching level will be at around the level of most of the MB downloads, especially the more advanced ones... These are more at the level I'm looking for.

[Nick Young]

I would definitely go for it. That option wasn't available to me when I went to art school. Complete waste of time and money. There are only really two or three great art schools to consider, the rest just want to rob you. I spent four years in a private art school and most of my progress has largely come from self-study and this community. Seriously.

With the workshops and now these cool weekend streams (and a lot of hard work) a person can achieve success without going to an expensive private school. You guys are so lucky to have conceptart available as another tool. My advice: stay away from private school.

[CharReed]

If you could attend an online program with direct access to the top professionals from a variety of fields (depending on the area of focus...Fine Art, Animation, Concept Art, Illustration etc...), with each class taught by the very best in that area of expertise and it included opportunities for jobs, ability to expose your work to the top companies, galleries, art directors and the like...as well as had financial aid. If it was half the cost of a private art school, would you do it?

Absolutely!

Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?

Results matter to me, not degrees. A program that had accreditation would be nice, but not a must.

Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?

As long as they were scholarships based on performance and not based on financial need, I would be up for it. You don't know how many scholarships I applied for and didn't get because my parent's made "too much money", only a tiny amount of which ever went to my education.

If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?

To be honest, it'd be neither here nor there for me. I'm an online junkie and world traveller, if my tuition covered the cost of such a meeting no matter where in the world I was located, then I'd be up for something like that. As long as the instructor took a vested interest in me and how I was coming along in my art, I don't care whether it's online or in person.

Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?

Yeah, I think I could deal with that ;) Travel expenses included in tuition? Would the gallery include the work from students of this school?

Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?

As long as it could cover my costs no matter where in the world I was located, sure.

Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?

I don't think I'm needing much more swaying at this point- icing on the already great cake!

What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?

When can I sign up?

[Studio Colrouphobia]

I voted:

yes if there was a way I could study at the conceptart.org atelier at the same time and get financial aid for both


And please let me explain why (Italics wont go away ?):

I never had the opportunity to get any form of art-education when I was all alone. Now I have children, which means that regardless of what one might think, art WILL come second. Food for my children just plain will come first.
If I had no children, I could easily live off of scraps (one or two m&m's a day) just to scrape through and save cash to be able to get an education in arts.

I might add that the scholarship is an equal option for me, however for me there is a difference (mainly because you didn't spell it out there Jason) and that is: An online education without a degree doesn't feel that interesting. An online education linked to MB/the Ateliér without a degree HELL YEAH!.
The reputation of MB is enough to make the degree irrelevant. People see my (gathered) skills from that education, along with the knowledge of who(m) stand behind it is enough to give me a serious shot at getting a job in the industry, worldwide.

So being physically in the Atelier is not really a must, but the education being linked to the Atelier or MB is.

Some form of monetary solution is also a must. Mainly for the purpose of being able to fully focus on learning. To live and breathe art, to shit art and eat it for lunch, supper and breakfast (second breakfast, munchies, afternoon-sies- art, art and art). To sleep art- and still be able to have food on the table for my children.
Because that little thing there in the end, is what is the biggest problem.
It is people who are dependant on me for actual survival.

Ironically enough, putting food on the table is mostly done with income from art made- commissions and pfreelance-stuff. But to be able to get more work, to earn a living off of it, I would need to improve. To improve I need education and support, and to get education (support is great here at CA) I would need cash...but cash is scarce because I need to improve.

I don't think that I am alone in this spiral hold-back, but I am sincerely hoping that there would possibly be an opening to solve it one day.

Might I add that I, too, live outside of the US and whereas I imagine there being equally much talent or possible new masters outside of the US, at least in MY country, the art-schools are a joke... analy-retarded "artists" who decide on their whims whom gets to become a student. Rarely based upon anything else then ass-licking and who has the cash or the "breeding" (i.e. class and background) for it.

So if you can solve the cash-problem I would be the first to sign up, in fact I already signed up before you asked!

[Pegahoul]

Yes on all options.
Have to think about the degree though, it's hard to get a foreign visa in my country if you're not aiming for a higher degree than you're already have (if you already got a BA, they won't give you visa for a, say, Diploma. Their question is "what for"?)
I agree with the others that schools are best onsite. It's just different. Though online's okay too since it's cheaper...
When can we see the fee, schedule, and other list?

[instinct]

I just finished a 4 year BFA degree at my local University, and I would still jump into this program in a second.

In fact, i think i'll start saving.

[Stoat]

Honestly? Yes -- if the program became well-known, well-thought-of and prestigious. No if there were no entrance requirements and/or anyone emerged out the other end not very good yet clutching a diploma.

Part of what you pay for is the prestige buff.

[catartxis]

Yes for sure!
Altough, obviously would depend on the final cost, dates, details, and opportunities, specially for long-distance-far-away-countries viewers and students.
But i am sure, in general seems to be a great opportunity.

Looking forward to hear and read more news about it.

[ROCKNROLLA]

YES!!! I am just waiting for the thing to start up. I don't feel a degree would matter as long as we are given the tools and knowledge to succeed. Which I have no doubt we would if the classes are anything like some of your presentations. Financial Aid and GI Bill are big. If you could get these two incorporated that would help the schools success tremendously. Also the part about having a sort of "summer school" with the costs of travel incorporated into the tuition is pure genius.

[-Zer0-]

I've never been so psyched for school.

[Bradtron]

In a second, a school designed to help me build the foundations i need to actually get a career going and not JUST a degree would be infinitely more valuable.

[Cacodaemonia]

I voted Yes, but only if I could earn a scholarship.

I already have a Fine Arts degree from a Liberal Arts school, but what you're describing, Jason, is very enticing. I'm barely scraping by on freelance work at the moment, though, so financial aid would be necessary before I could even consider joining such a program.

For me, physical contact with instructors is not necessary, as I own a house and have dogs, and can't go running off all the time.

I guess my ideal set-up for this would be to take one or two classes a semester (or year, depending on how things were structured), assuming I were able to get financial aid. Of course, if you guys are going to be setting this up like a university program, I assume there would be a minimum number of credit hours to be considered a full-time student and be eligible for financial aid?

Thanks for all the hard work. :)

[vibhas_virwani]

If you could attend an online program with direct access to the top professionals from a variety of fields (depending on the area of focus...Fine Art, Animation, Concept Art, Illustration etc...), with each class taught by the very best in that area of expertise and it included opportunities for jobs, ability to expose your work to the top companies, galleries, art directors and the like...as well as had financial aid. If it was half the cost of a private art school, would you do it?

yes , "how much you will learn" from any class is the first question when u want to pick up a class

Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?
no , degree does not matter to me anyway as for an artist , his portfolio should qualify him for a particular job not a degree .

Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?
a scholarship would actually be the only way i personally could afford any class ( otherwise there is always self learning , internet etc. :S )

If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?
that would be a dream , specially when it will be combined with a scholarship :P :D . meeting those crazy pros would be a dream !!

Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?
most definitely

Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?
that right there would be crazy and the point where i started realizing that you might be messing with our head :P

Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?
hell yeah , screw the degree :D

What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?
as if one reason was not enough

if i was to compare between such a course and another private course , the first question would be where would i learn more ?? (this workshop )

second which one is more affordable (if affordable at all :P) ? (this workshop probably only with a scholarship i guess, my country has really much cheaper rates compared to europe , and i cant even afford our rates for now :P , one of the reasons why i still havent been to any of those workshops before )

third where do i make better contacts and opportunities ?
im pretty sure ,here

these are just honest answers , others may not agree .
cheers !!

[Crush]

I don't care about a degree, but I'm not sure about a purely online programme either.

What type of programme would this be, focused more on drawing/painting fundamentals or would that already be assumed and the classes would be more about concept design and working in the industry etc? Would it be open to any skill level or would there be a portfolio review?

I just finished my first term at school (LAAFA) and a few problems I see with this personally are;

- there wouldn't be any life drawing from a model (something I've found immensely helpful, lots of life drawing was actually one of my main reasons for deciding to go to school in the first place)

- You wouldn't be able to see the instructors draw. I'm sure the classes will all be high quality videos, either live or recorded, but that isn't quite the same, to me anyway, as being there with the instructor seeing them putting pencil to paper. With video there's always the problem of camera distortion and the fact that you aren't seeing the drawing full size etc. Even without that though, seeing a drawing on a screen and on paper just isn't the same to me.

- Related to the last one, the instructors wouldn't be able to see your original works as they actually are, nor would they be able to draw on top of them in whatever they were drawn with. Construction problems could be drawn over in photoshop with redline I guess, but rendering/value problems are a little harder. You could always paint over digitally, but it wouldn't teach you how to better use the materials. Seeing the instructors fix my drawings using the same tool as I was is something that really helped me.

Those last 2 things aren't as important if the classes are going to be purely digital (are they?), but I really feel model time is important.

This are just my personal opinions after spending a term at school anyway, I hope they help in some way :)

[Danny_K]

yes yes, and some more yes!
Do I smell something hot cooking on conceptart.org? :D

[Zirngibism]

- there wouldn't be any life drawing from a model (something I've found immensely helpful, lots of life drawing was actually one of my main reasons for deciding to go to school in the first place)


I think there should be some kind of entry portfolio showing that the student has already done life drawing/painting, and understands it well. That way instructors can rest assured that their students already have some of that out of the way, so other things can be focused on.

Perhaps "homework" could also be given for people to find a place nearby that give open figure sessions or classes. Yeah, I know there are some people who live away from places like that, but the majority of students probably have some access to something like that.

[Vatsel]

Do tell about the European placement Jason :)
(That will definitely win me over)

Maybe try London *hint* *hint*? ;)

[Gokce]

I would love to join, but fear it would be very expensive... I have looked into online art programs before, all of them were too pricey for me to afford, and often I imagined how cool it would be if ca.org had an online program but my budget is rather small so I doubt I'll be able to sign up.

[Derek the Usurper]

The private atelier art school I attend is around the same price in tuition as the ConceptArt.org Atelier. In fact, most ateliers are in that price range. Are we talking half that price, or half the price of accredited private art colleges?

[Rhys Yorke]

Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?
-No. I've been in the business long enough to realize it's the skills you have (the portfolio) not the piece of paper that will get you the job.

Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?
-No...I would like to see assistance based on financial need.

If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?
-It would be an added bonus, but I'd like to see this as a separate, optional workshop.


Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?
-Yes.


Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?
- Sounds expensive, regardless :)

Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?
Most definitely!

What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?
Hehe - umm no? Of course!


I would love to see the school operate in the same manner as Animation Mentor. I think they have a good setup that could work for conceptart.org.

[Jazz]

Ooooh, I would do it, most definitely! I probably CAN'T do it right now because I probably wouldn't even have a proper method of payment...or money to pay with. :P I'd totally go for the financial aid, as long as the process wasn't a hassle, too. >_< I wouldn't care about a degree, because if someone in a big company actually LIKED what I made, and saw potential and wanted to hire me, that would make me work even harder. ^____^

Oh yeah, and if it were to be far away, I'd want to be assured that I would be accommodated, and assisted if need be. I get nervous, and can't pretend my visual impairment doesn't concern me sometimes. Heh. :bashful:

But even with the long pondering paragraphs, I certainly would go for that! :D Yeah! I think that "30% of what I'm paying now" thing would work, too. @_@

[CecelyV]

If you could attend an online program with direct access to the top professionals from a variety of fields (depending on the area of focus...Fine Art, Animation, Concept Art, Illustration etc...), with each class taught by the very best in that area of expertise and it included opportunities for jobs, ability to expose your work to the top companies, galleries, art directors and the like...as well as had financial aid. If it was half the cost of a private art school, would you do it?
Yes, most definitely

Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?
Yes

Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?
Yes

If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?
Sign me up!

Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?
Already sold on this at this point ^_^

Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?
A million times yes. So awesome, let me count the ways!

Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?
Of course, yes.

What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?
Yes, and yes!


Please vote and discuss. If you have time I would be curious to your thoughts.

The answer to all is YES, I would most definitely want to participate in something like this--with tears of joy, happiness and thankfulness pouring out of me.
I can't wait for this to be up and running! Thanks MB & CA!

[MikeBurns]

As someone halfway through traditional art school, I highly doubt I'm going to be able to get the money for something like this anytime soon, but I would personally love to see this happen. The thought of being able to attend more art classes further down the road is a very attractive idea, and if this does happen here at ConceptArt I would love to take some classes when I get the chance to. I know that Bobby Chiu and his gang over at Imaginism have their own online classes and it seems like a lot of people are interested in them and DO take the classes. I really would love to see this happen, it sounds like an amazing opportunity!

[KarylGilbertson]

I don't really care about accreditation either... I already have a BDes from a four-year program, and now understand just how much having a kick-ass portfolio is more important than my little piece of paper...

I would totally be down, but I have a similar situation as some others (like Cacodaemonia)... I am married, have a job, house, etc. and therefore an online program would be ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL.. I however wouldn't be able to take part in much of the real world stuff (although workshops might be doable).

Other commitments would also mean it would be incredibly wonderful to do a part-time course load... again to echo Cacodaemonia, one or two classes per semester would be about my limit, time-wise.

And, of course, financial aid or scholarships would also be nice, to help pay the bills :)

[KarylGilbertson]

ARRGH Double post, my bad :)

[tokaru]

thats sound awesome, but it would be really awesome to have the chance of a degree.

why? because its a requirement if you want to move to another country for job. in reality is just a paper, but its dam important to have one of those for tramits to have the chance
to work for example in epic games or blizzard.

but definitly i would gladly take this course i love art and i havent the chance to study in my younghood

[Meloncov]

I wouldn't be willing to give up the physical community of artists of a traditional art school. Online networking is great and all, but it's not a replacement for the creative cross-pollination of living and working with other artists. The addition of occasional in person meetings, whether in the form of summer classes or briefer workshops would make the program more appealing than other online programs, but wouldn't be sufficient to sell me on the idea.

Plus I'm already getting instruction from top professionals, and after financial aid, am only paying about half tuition, so I'll stay were I am.

[Santo]

I'm from San Francisco, currently developing my painting skills so I can attempt to join the gallery scene and be one of those Juxtapoz artists, haha. No really, it's kind of a goal. At the moment my plan is to attend the Art Center in Pasadena with loans and whatever scholarships, but my basic plan is to just become a better fine art painter.

If the program you're creating can offer the same quality of teaching as I would get in top art schools at cheaper costs and I'm able to get financial aid for it, then hey, I would love to try it out. Assuming you know, I get all the same benefits, and then some (like whatever perks they offer at those schools). And also be able to make the same amount of connections/contacts as I would at an art school.

Personally I'm after a mixture of Bouguereau, Caravaggio, Dali, Bosch and Beksinski. And I'm already capable of doing pretty decent studies (or copies) of their work, so if I can learn to fully reach my goal with this program (as in learn to make my own work that would combine all the artists' styles), I wouldn't mind trying it out. Especially if it beats 15k per semester, lol.

[Trashy]

Right now this is something I'm dealing with...what do I want to do with me education...should I go into a Atelier...all that sort of stuff

So lets go through this. First and foremost I pretty much answered absolutely, yes!

Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?

I don't even have any degree yet...might maybe by the end of this fall but in all honesty it means nothing to me. A degree is not a free pass into the art industry in anyway shape or form to me...it's just a piece of paper.

Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?

scholarships are nice but they should be given based more on the work you do and how much effort you put into the program. There always has to be a certain criteria that has to be met to get the scholarships.

If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?


HELL YES!

Here is the thing, I had the chance to take some of the earlier classes here that Jason was teaching, color theory, composition, etc...

Those were the first online classes I really ever took and they were great! Till then I was sorta skeptical on how it would be. However nothing to me beats interacting with people in person. Having that instructor look over your shoulder and speaking face to face. I liked those online classes I really did...but there is still a disconnect and interaction missing there that you can only get in a real classroom...not a virtual classroom. If you provided that option of also the summer program at something like the MB Atelier...you got me hook, line, and sinker!!!!!!! If the atelier was somehow connected also to the online study that would be a win-win. Personally I consider the Atelier still the best option right now. $7,000 per year...that's nothing considering your getting some of the best training from some of the best artists in the industry!

Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?

Ummmmm...how about another HELL YES!

Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?

0_O.....*faints*

It sounds great but maybe have that as a option for the students. Unless you could get a awesome discount I could see that hiking up the tuition maybe a bit too much for some that just want to take the classes.

Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?

I think that's a given.

What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?

Totally!

I'm gonna ramble here for a sec, but when it comes most art schools especially here in Tucson I have a deep-seeded hatred for them (I'm looking at you art institute of Tucson!).
You see it everywhere, people dropping hundreds of thousands of dollars and in the end getting a piece of paper and a truly terrible portfolio and practically no real training in the arts. Last person I talked to that went to that institute, and I mention this all the time, said he was $60,000 in debt from the classes...oh and he was married...and with two kids. Nice huh? I still have no clue why the hell he went there and keep thinking I made one of the best choices just going to the community college here and just going for the associates while taking some spare classes that I knew would help me in the long run.

I pretty much concluded I will only continue toward my BA if I get a full-pass to Ringling or a couple of the other college but to be fully honest I would still prefer the atelier training. Any of those college are a crop-shoot. I might only get two instructors out of ten that might be good. So that's why I've been seriously eyeballing the ateliers again.

The training and the education is the most important thing I believe you need besides of course be dedicated to what you do and be persistent. Learning from people who know what they talking about is crucial. There is a huge swamp out there of teachers, especially art teachers that are horrid. Pretty much every Atelier I look at has rock-solid instructors but the MB Atelier is still one of the most unique ones because it offers the training in old masters techniques and also goes into the digital realm, it's a perfect balance and that's why I lean more toward that. What I know is the folks here are serious. If you get this up and running it would be great either way. I say the bigger you go the more exciting it gets as long as you take the right steps in making it a reality.

my two cents

[Vertrucio]

Where can I sign up.

I'm actually looking into some extra education at an art school and I'm just about to apply.

I'd rather go through ca.org/massive black online. Since I already have an animation degree I don't need another degree, the actual experience is what I want.

[CeeJay]

It's too bad that I've already got my degree! I would've gone for this in a second. Just so CA.org knows, I paid my tertiary provider for CA.org to teach me :( and that's BS. If there was a way I could have got a degree through CA I would've been sold. Hope it all goes well!!! The standard of art is gonna go through the roof if you can pull this off :)

[grenogs]

I dont think theres anything wrong with trying to study on a degree course, infact i have nothing against them, even though i myself didnt go for a degree course but instead done a HND art course which is supose to be more geared towards education thats aimed at creating skills and projects that will be benificial towards a particuler chosen career at the end. the only problem however is that the majority of students who do take the effort to actually complete their chosen degree subject whether its art or anything else dont actualy end up following the same career path, infact a lot of students dont even want to, for some reason its been drilled into their minds from a young age that just by getting any kind of degree will be benificial and almost necesary in gaining a great career later, even if its a career that got nothing to do with the chosen degree. Personally i think anyone whos actualy concidering doing any kind of degree course should first take a year or 2 out of education, becouse that time out can realy make a person grow up and help an individual to have a much better idea who they are and what they realy would like to do with their lives.

So a course of study like this i actualy believe can be a much better idea, on the simple fact that a standard degree education cant often introduce a student to certain business opitunities and friends in the industry which such a program could create, which is sometimes more important than any piece of paper. basicly word of mouth and first hand contacts with certain individuals can often make or break an artist in this industry.

On the other hand, going to university, moving away from home, and basicly experiencing the whole university way of life can be such a growing experience, which simply can't be achieved any other way, other than living the life. so i think both tuition styles have their pros and cons, so i guess the best way therefore would to do both, first the standard tradition of going to university to basicly enroll a person into the career, where they can experience all kinds of influences both educational and life in general, then later follow the other course of study which would basicly aim towards a career at the end, plus the fact that by the time they have started on the second part of the education experience the student would already know the basics, so the learning experience should actualy be much easier and more benificial.

[hala]

I've been looking for online accredited programs, which are really hard to find (good quality ones).

I answered yes with a degree--but financial aid and scholarships is key like everyone said already.


Would this be an accelerated program? Lots of online schools are "accelerated", you complete the degree in two years time, no 3 month summer breaks, only national and religious holidays.

Would there be a requirement to come in physically at some point? Quite a few online art programs require coming in at the end of the semester, which makes it quite difficult if you live somewhere else.

Would there be an acceptance rate, or is it apply and enroll--no portfolio review or etc?

I think MB/CA has such a massive fan following, thousands would flock to such a program.

I would love to go to an online school like the one you are proposing :< i wish i wasn't already half way through my degree.

The perks and benefits far out weigh other alternatives--even without a degree the name would probably carry a reputation itself just for having access to so many vital outlets in the industry.

[GriNGo]

1.- If you could attend an online program with direct access to the top professionals from a variety of fields (depending on the area of focus...Fine Art, Animation, Concept Art, Illustration etc...), with each class taught by the very best in that area of expertise and it included opportunities for jobs, ability to expose your work to the top companies, galleries, art directors and the like...as well as had financial aid. If it was half the cost of a private art school, would you do it?

Maybe. Because of the online part. I believe in the power and efficiency of face to face training and interaction. The internet still has a lot way to go for this. Also, face to face helps keep the distractions at a minimum, helps organize your time, and personal contact (to make friends/relationships) is harder through the internet. Also, not to mention the possible technical problems that could arise (slow connection speeds, etc).

2.- Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?

Yes, because, I'd like to get some sort of written proof (apart from the actual work that is), of how much I rock. And still, for a lot of people, including potential employers, degrees are important.

3.- Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?
Yes, see question #2.

4.- If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?
This is interesting, it sounds like the Illustration Academy. So yes, it would be a plus. But where would it be? How much would it cost? (airplane tickets and such). Additional expenses, specially, if has degree-related costs, are troublesome (not mentioning visas and such, which are hard to get by (depending on where this will be located) to third worlders).

5.- Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?
This would be another plus, but most schools already do that (graduation expos, at least in major cities). So this was more of an pre-established expectation, than something totally radical or different.

6.- Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?
Another plus, but still, expenses can be hefty for only a one week (3-4 days) workshop. I would prefer the month long "workshop" mentioned in question #4. So, no, this wouldn't sway me.

7.- Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?
Not really. Because this isn't a guarantee of anything.

8.- What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?

With the powers of promotion that ConceptArt.org has, well yes, it is a definite plus. But I feel this a trick question, designed for us to say "Hell Yes!" Not very related to the actual program. Right now, if I were kick ass (like Randis for example) and posted in the finally finished, the admiration will come by itself, even if I'm a total unknown artist.

[Movenski]

if theres one thing i've consistently heard and experienced its that in the commercial arts fields a degree is next to meaningless. i think it'd be great of you guys to provide aid and scholarships, but if that means you had to get accredited and drive up the cost, i'd say don't bother and keep the cost as low as possible. you could always tell folks to apply for grants or something.
but bottom line, i do more learning at the workshops and with the videos and streaming classes than i'd do in ENTIRE SEMESTERS at art school. (i went to CIA) the benefits of a school through you guys FAR AND AWAY out weigh the costs. when you get this up and running i'll be sure to point every youngster i know right here for an education.

[Texahol]

I think your voting system is inadequate. You can't simplify choices like that. There are a ton of factors that go into choosing an education, not just a few bubbles... and you have to pick one bubble that probably doesn't even fully satisfy how you really feel about it.

You'd have been better off with setting up some kind of survey, as far as compiling results in an effective manner. things like "most important to least important 1-10" kind of stuff would be a far more efficient tool for deciding what means to further the development of your school.

My experience with art schooling so far has been having no money for a real art school, and not being good enough to get any scholarship money. I was rejected from art school because I was horrible, I worked really hard and passion for what I was doing. I stayed at a terrible state school to get a degree for 30k. And being poor gets you awesome financial aid. Everything I learned I attribute to the many contributors of conceptart.org, conceptart.org workshops/sketchmeets, self discovery through hard work.

So is the online school worth 15k per year [assuming it's a 4 year program]? Right now the conceptart.org atelier is less than half that amount at 600/mo and you are dealing with real people on a daily basis. It seems like it would be an invaluable resource, to have all these professionals at your fingertips...as undoubtedly they could help you exponentially with professional advice and networking...

who knows...i just think for marketing research a survey would be a lot better.

[MEMPER]

This sounds like an awesome idea. The cost would be high for sure, but really I think it would end up being cheaper than most universities and private schools. If you could organize financial aid to some that would be excellent. Im sure making this possible would be quite the headache.
And one more note, aren't artists who go into teaching supposed to be failures in the real world???

[colorbone]

Yes, I would like to have the opportunity to study art online. I think this will be a great opportunity for members outside the US or those who can not be physically present to study.

I am not very particular with having a degree after as I agree that skills and creativity count more than degree.

One major concern though is time zone this courses are offered and most specially the tuition. Being outside the US and paying the tuition in dollars is expensive. Perhaps if concept art could offer these courses in modules that could be taken independently (not compulsory to move to the next) and with a corresponding minimal tuition (instead of paying for the whole year).

[MEMPER]

Ooh! Or maybe pay for per class?

[Zirngibism]

Ooh! Or maybe pay for per class?

I dunno-- seems like there should be some kind of commitment here.

For example, how would they deal with homework if new people were coming and going between each class? If that was the case, nothing could be accredited, if they did go that route.

[Liffey]

Ooh! Or maybe pay for per class?

That's what the live stream classes are there for.

[zenichi]

voted yes, if a degree is included. actually not looking for degrees (got plenty of those already and am too old for that cert to have any impact on my career) but would like some sort of accreditation. even if it means international CPD (continual professional development) points. cheers for all the great effort, am sure there'll be thousands who would benefit from your endeavor!

[Jason Manley]

thanks all. I look forward to continued input as I am all ears and taking some notes too. Most the questions will be answered when we launch but for now there are some great points being made. thank you.

gringo, the paper showing how much you rock? it's called your portfolio. :)

[Skolld]

I think this is a very a good idea, but access to the artists would have to be a must.
I've already received my MFA but looking back I've always felt the American academic tradition in the visual arts to be inadequate in terms of teaching techniques and promoting creativity.

The best part of college was the interaction with other artists. I feel that that is where the majority of my learning took place (and still takes place actually)
This is the only downside I can see with the online coursework but if you can manage a way to get face time then I could see this as a viable alternative to the traditional art school, or at the very least a really kick-ass supplement to it.

[Zirngibism]

Ok, I guess I'm satisfied to learn some of this stuff when you launch.

But I would like to know when that's estimated to be.

[travisF]

the screams of good idea

[zulu]

is awesome, but is too much money, here in argentina 100U$ is like 400 pesos, so i cant do something like that, is my dream to study with great artists but in this life i cant.

[EightyEightEyeballs]

I have to say I'm skeptical about online programs. The internet is unstable as it is and I think an extremely important thing about art school is real life human interaction. I could see myself, if I were doing an online degree or program, never leaving my room and working sitting on my ass all the time. I think at least I would get depressed.

However, the credentials and the money thing is definitely a draw. But somehow I think my imagination flourishes more when I'm having real interactions with people and real exciting things happening to me.

This beats a liberal arts or community art college all the way to hell though - if those were my only options, I would ABSOLUTELY go for this. But instead I went to SVA in NYC; and whether or not I'm getting 30% of an education for full price, I think the experiences I've had thus far are close to invaluable.

[Jacob Kobryn]

I honestly don't know... It is true that the education can be slightly lacking in such programs but the networking is infinitely valuable. That is the true value of school vs internet. Besides, I believe that just sitting around on the computer for years would be very depressing (though it is basically what I am doing now). I'm surviving due to the prospect that I will actually be able to make friends in college...

[smugbug]

I'm a huge proponent of quality online programs - hell, I've partake in a few and wouldn't have been able to complete my schooling without 'em. I'm also big on continuing education, be it in a classroom like setting (via online or not) or on a forum environment like CA.org.

You can never learn too much, after all. And this (art) is all about the journey and education is key.

So yes, if I have the $$ and time available I will certainly sign up for a course or two.

[LooneyMann]

Really amazing art in the projects at the link from the email! I have to say I don't like the limits of the horizontal scrolling, though. At least please include some javascript to make the mouse wheel scroll horizontally. =\

As for the real point of this thread: it SOUNDS amaaaaaazing, and I've love to participate! The thing for me personally is that I'm very bad at motivating myself to do real/serious drawing on my own. It helps me very much to be forced to sit down [or stand up] in a classroom/studio setting with others for large chunks of time. There are so many resources on the net, but I just can't get myself to dedicate the time/energy/focus to commit to any of it.

[Autumn Embers]

I already have a BA in Art, with a focus in painting but I'd like to participate in this program but I'd like to be able to meet with others locally if possible.

For some reason I'm not able to participate in the poll, hm.

Either way I'm interested in this type of online degree or program. I think with digital art and painting, a program like this is definitely needed. =)

[tokaru]

thanks all. I look forward to continued input as I am all ears and taking some notes too. Most the questions will be answered when we launch but for now there are some great points being made. thank you.

gringo, the paper showing how much you rock? it's called your portfolio. :)

yes thats true, but i been there in the past, i was in vfs a few years ago, and and friend of mine that has a kick ass portafolio in modeling, ALMOST get a job
At EA but they asked for a degree (it really doesnt matter what kind of degree)

but he didnt have one so he did not got the job there.

degrees as i mentioned before are really important NOT to the game company they give a sh*t about it but the goberment ask for them. its a requirement to apply for a workingvisa.

so it would be just awesome that this program would have a degree.

[cl0aked]

I'd sure do it if I had the money. I'm currently completing a computer science course and it would be awesome to be able to study art. The main problem here is money - I really don't have any.

I agree on the networking. And working with the best artists in the field I want to work in - concept art - would also be invaluable. So I guess I'd be swayed by those two features.

[Jason Manley]

yes thats true, but i been there in the past, i was in vfs a few years ago, and and friend of mine that has a kick ass portafolio in modeling, ALMOST get a job
At EA but they asked for a degree (it really doesnt matter what kind of degree)

but he didnt have one so he did not got the job there.

degrees as i mentioned before are really important NOT to the game company they give a sh*t about it but the goberment ask for them. its a requirement to apply for a workingvisa.

so it would be just awesome that this program would have a degree.


There are ways around that. Marko Djurdjevic had no degree and Massive Black got him his visa. There are steps to take so you don't have to have a degree to work in the US. It varies by country but there are usually ways to get it done, just like we did. It requires the artist do a handful of things prior to applying for it in order to show extraordinary skills or unique talent. Which is not too difficult to do. Marko had never even worked at a game company before and we did it just fine.

[Bushido]

is awesome, but is too much money, here in argentina 100U$ is like 400 pesos, so i cant do something like that, is my dream to study with great artists but in this life i cant.

Money is the problem

Money is a problem...

Big problema...

Dude you forget to say that here (In Argentina) the average salay its like (If you are lucky) $500 dollars = $2000 Pesos...(monthly) When in the US the average salary is like $3000/4000 dollars

So 4 pesos = 1 Dollar

So... we have to pay EVERYTHING 4 TIMES MORE!!!!!!
AND WE EARN 4 TIMES LESS!!!!!!!

That why you dont see too much latin american people doing art this days.

That is the simple reason why we are fuckt up!!!!

[Jason Manley]

I honestly don't know... It is true that the education can be slightly lacking in such programs but the networking is infinitely valuable. That is the true value of school vs internet. Besides, I believe that just sitting around on the computer for years would be very depressing (though it is basically what I am doing now). I'm surviving due to the prospect that I will actually be able to make friends in college...


Jake you have made more connections on conceptart.org already than you will the entire four years of one of the private art schools.

[Jason Manley]

is awesome, but is too much money, here in argentina 100U$ is like 400 pesos, so i cant do something like that, is my dream to study with great artists but in this life i cant.


open minds are a good thing...you would need to win a scholarship based on merit and then you can keep your pesos and go to school for free.

[Phaethon]

Boy, this is a tricky one. As an art student going into my final year of school, though, I got some opinions.

First, full disclosure. If I could go back to before freshman year of school and start my art education over again, I would not do this kind of online program. In addition to my Illustration major, I'm also an English major. When I set out looking for schools it was extremely important to me to find a university that allowed me to pursue both commercial art and humanities. I couldn't stand giving up an environment where I can learn art while also bringing in philosophy, science, and literature.

Second, degrees and in-person instruction are very important to me. Sure, an art director won't be interested in your degree. But a degree stands for quality of instruction. Degrees mean accreditation and a structured, well-thought-out curriculum. The piece of paper is unimportant, but the educational standard it represents means a lot.

Likewise, while online instruction and tutorials are great - I've learned mountains from online tutorials - technology still creates an undesirable barrier between student and instructor. In an in-person class, you can have the advantage of a conversation with not only your professor, but your classmates. You can do a sketch, tack it to the wall, and hear about it right away - without having to worry about scanning, fiddling with a file, uploading it, waiting for a reply, etc. Posting art online is more akin to mailing something really quickly than it is to tacking something to a bulletin board.

Now, what I would be interested in is a summer course for college credit. It would be great to learn from the giants of conceptart.org while still attending a more standard university art school. I would be all for the real-world summer option if there were a way to participate and transfer credit back to my current school.

[Fvallejo]

I just graduated so I may have a little different perspective. But art schools do need to be re evaluated, so I agree with the direction. The only thing I question is the possibility of cutting out the personal contact you have with the other students. I learned more from my friends at 3am than my "education." I feel like I paid for the space to be with other artists than anything else. If this program you are speaking to doesn't have that aspect, I become wary. I think the fatigue of working alone would really get to a lot of young artists.

best,
-fv

[Bard]

Well for me, I have the utmost respect to the talents the atelier has generated so far. If I can have the same knowledge passed on to me and i can apply it to my art...YES!
I have to admit I had interest the first time CA said there will be a school. Tried to save up to this day so I can go to some good school:) But living in a third world, I only came up with 3k...So if there is some kind of scholarship, I will compete for it to get in.
Don't care for degrees either, but I was thinking of going to Malaysia and go to The One academy...and something like "this" can definitely change my mind. I don't want the trips though..that may add more to the tuition costs:{ hehe Just want the goods you've been feeding your atelier babies! I want that most!

So my answer is Yes and is willing to fight for scholarship..Thanks!

[GriNGo]

gringo, the paper showing how much you rock? it's called your portfolio. :)

Of course :) I did say that in my original post, maybe it escaped you. But yeah, as you say, it's kinda meaningless in the end, but as others have said, for certain corporations or people, it's necessary.

open minds are a good thing...you would need to win a scholarship based on merit and then you can keep your pesos and go to school for free.

Getting scholarships is cool and all, but you know most people will have a hard time doing it. It would be nice to think of an online art program that thinks about regions outside of first world countries, in regards to pricing. Maybe make the price according to your region? But yeah, it's just wishful thinking.

I'm also with Francis Vallejo on his opinion on face to face contact. I think it's extremely important. The internet hasn't involved enough (IMO), yet, to make it worthwile counterpart to traditional schools.
I also have to agree with Texahol, a more defined survey would give you guys the results you are wishing for.

Good luck Jason & the rest of the MB team!

[redFIVE]

If you got talent like Kevin Chen or Steve Houston to do a CA anatomy course I'd break the piggy bank for it and never look back.

[Ivory_Oasis]

I think online teaching with all those things would be a really good fit for a lot of people.

But, I'm not sure I could do it. Getting out and actually being in a classroom and actually being next to other students is kind of nice (just doing online all day would drive me house-crazy!)

For me, online learning is something I would just want in addition to normal classes. Something I probably will be using a long time after I get out of school...but not as much in the traditional teacher /student relationship.

I think the community learning from online forums and shared advice / discussion is what I really want from online (so kind of a mix between social networking and lifelong learning).

But still, some people would jump at it to save money or to avoid having to move and all the issues that come with that (along with the probably more flexible hours). So, seems like a good idea.

[Leukeh]

Yes, if there was a degree. At this point in my life I'm just trying to get qualified so I can get hired, however if I had several years experience in the industry and just wanted to further my skills, I wouldn't be interested in a degree. Financial aid is always a plus for artists...

[GriNGo]

For me, online learning is something I would just want in addition to normal classes. Something I probably will be using a long time after I get out of school...but not as much in the traditional teacher /student relationship.

Exactly. I am all for online teaching as a way to perfect certain skills, but as a replacement to college, I don't like the idea. At least not yet.

[Noia]

I have a degree already and it never impressed anyone but my parents. I don't really care about prestige, but I think Massive Black is certainly prestigious, at least in the digital art world. The fine art world is often tangled up with old academia. Financial aid and scholarships would matter a lot, or maybe just a low cost of attendance to begin with. Is it possible to be part time in this program if you lack the funds or time to devote to it? Speaking for full time students, how flexible is the program going to be? Is this program À la carte if you aren’t sure you will be able to go to everything when you sign up?

The summer real world studies would be awesome, especially if going to Europe and soaking up all the culture. Unfortunately, there are difficulties involved with that though as many students may not be able to commit that much time if they have jobs, families, etc. How about students in these circumstances instead can go to one of the MB/CA.org art events for free or super cheap as part of their tuition to help fulfill this? Is that part of what you had in mind for the exclusive workshops? Having all the arrangements taken care of and paid for as part of tuition would be great.

In what way would a student have direct access to companies, out of curiosity? I think you have a great plan here. I wish this was an option about five years ago! I’m still psyched though.

[Bard]

hehe..yeah being a hermit will drive you crazy..my plan if ever is, take what knowledge they are feeding me and apply it on a real life drawing session. Hoping to buy a laptop as well, so I'm outside experiencing life while on the program. And the best would be if a friend of mine gets in as well, so well both learn the MB way....


I just want to see the upside of me getting better than the downside of it all, which I think can be worked out.

[Urban-Muse]

I think have an accredited full degree is important to me. But I think in a program like this my portfolio could progress even more rapidly than it is at my ridiculously expensive private school. (grumble)

[rusalka]

From the brief if nebulous description, this program sounds like one tailored towards those looking for a basic undergraduate type of art school equivalent education? How much would 1/2 tuition of Ringling be, 17K to 20K / year? Also sounds like a full commitment of at least a year by year basis.

For those of us with existing bachelors and masters degrees, looking for supplemental education, a setup similar to that of Gnomo.n may possibly work better. I believe they have a certificate or accredited program setup, but the same classes can also be taken individually be working professionals looking to improve their skills in specific areas. Some what like how the UC extension system works in Cali.

Working full time, I would find online CA courses at on nights or weekends an excellent resource. In which case, the only aspect I would find compelling out of the list would be that the courses are taught rigorously by top notch industry professionals but don't cost $4000 per class.

I'm guessing though that there may be some monetary advantages for you guys to set it up as a full time program track.

I also wonder about any life drawing or traditional medium courses would work in the online realm. Conceptual design and theory of course would likely work great online.

[Burtzum]

I'd rather go to the CA atelier in SF. But I've already been through art school and have no money. Particularly for cost of living in SF. I propose CA builds a series of cubicles for students to live in, like those weird Japanese hotels ya know? That would be sweet...

[Crush]

One more thing I just thought of while reading other people's posts, it would be hard for the instructors to see your work AS you're making it, instead of just the final piece. That's another plus for a phsyical place, that the teacher can see you working and see exactly where you're going wrong at every stage of a pieces progression, not just being there to correct things like bad proportions and anatomy problems when you're finished.

[GriNGo]

I'd rather go to the CA atelier in SF. But I've already been through art school and have no money. Particularly for cost of living in SF. I propose CA builds a series of cubicles for students to live in, like those weird Japanese hotels ya know? That would be sweet...

Quoted for Truth. Atelier wins hands down against online education. I hope this online thingy won't replace it! And the idea Burtzum mentions about affordable housing: if CA can manage to build a place for all the students to live there, in more affordable rates than normal SF prices, it would be the best thing ever!

[Ian Miles]

>>>>>
2.- Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?

Yes, because, I'd like to get some sort of written proof (apart from the actual work that is), of how much I rock. And still, for a lot of people, including potential employers, degrees are important.

I have to agree.
When you´re already famous, maybe degree are meaningless. But STILL are a degree, and mean a lot of open doors (if you have one, you are less trouble for a company, worldwide speaking).

For me, if you ad a degree at the end, you have an absolute winner. But maybe you can flexibilize the course a little bit? Not-so-long courses without degree, and long course with a degree? Don´t know. But still reading what´s next about this.

[Dark_Eyes]

screw the poll, i'm hungry for this now, with a fire in my belly you wouldn't believe.... >:D

[Ivory_Oasis]

For those of us with existing bachelors and masters degrees, looking for supplemental education, a setup similar to that of Gnomo.n may possibly work better. I believe they have a certificate or accredited program setup, but the same classes can also be taken individually be working professionals looking to improve their skills in specific areas. Some what like how the UC extension system works in Cali.

Yea, I really like the way Gnomo.n is set up. They have the normal full schedule class (and different certificate things), but also offer everything as an "ala carte" menu for you to pick from (for people who need specific things). Also think they offer some classes online and a lot of videos.

Maybe CA could do something more like that? Maybe really buff up the atelier program to fit more people in (I think they said they have 12 student openings in that?). Then keep up with the videos they are offering (great way to get pointers on things, though, I haven't tried the new format they have... I looked at it but it seemed like the cost of those things are a lot higher than they were before).

Basically, move into more of a traditional school just with a heavy focus on what you offer online? That way you get people on both sides of the fence.

[Wilsty]

"Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?"

-The degree would not matter to me. In the end, everyone just wants to see what you're capable of doing (portfolio), although the letters BFA or MFA do have a nice ring when put next to one's name.

"Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?"

-If I could learn the techniques and study art the same as those who run this site have, the degree wouldn't matter. The artwork on this site by its masters is some of the best I've ever seen in the current century and would not regret ever having chose to learn from them instead of learning at a school that would allow the letters BFA or MFA next to my name.

"If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?"

-Hell, yes!

"Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?"

-Hell, yes!

"Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?"

-Most definitely!

"Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?"

-Absolutely!

"What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?"

-Although I find those odds slim, yes!

[Theking78]

[QUOTE=Jason Manley;2443398]If it was half the cost of a private art school like Ringling or Art Center or SCAD, would you do it?


Yes I would, but what's the cost of one of the above mentioned schools? I have no idea....

[MrMoo]

To be honest, this sounds like the very thing I have been looking for.

I've already started working on my portfolio.

I've already started saving up money for CA.org Atelier.

All I really want is the chance to do what I love and learn from the best.
I think an online-based learning environment is novel, but to play the devils
advocate... isn't that what ConceptArt.org was originally intended to be?

Granted, direct communication with the teachers and live-video streaming would be fantastic, but I have to echo prior sentiment that an on-site learning portion would be AMAZING.

And I would be more than happy to live in a Japanese cubicle simply because I would be living my dream. That is, the dream of learning, not living in cramped accommodations.

Two things:

1) A scholarship would make this much much more appealing, because i'm poor. I'm curious also about who would get the scholarships and how that process is being worked out.

2) What about people who wish to become interns, teaching assistants, or teachers? Is there any break for those who wish to teach?

Thank you for sparking the debate, Jason. You, ConceptArt and the Massive Black Crew are an inspiration.

~milo

[Ben K]

Having spent some time doing an arts degree without finishing it, I can honestly say that this sort of thing and no degree is worth infinitely more than a degree with no skills.

In my personal situation it wouldn't happen without a lot of money involved; Europe is on the other side of the world, I'm already studying at a university in a different field, and I have a part time job that probably won't be there if I leave for a year.

[Sirkenneth]

A degree is not worth the cost of getting a school accredited. If you are SERIOUS about being a professional artist than having a degree wont matter. Degrees are useful for those who want to teach. Degree have NO positive effect on my choice.
However-having a location is not a bad thing at all. I think smaller more intimate locations make the most sense. In downtown san fran or a European city is just TOO far out of too many people's pockets. Mine especially :D People under estimate the draw of a small town. Museums are great- and seeing the work in person is beneficial but not crucuial. Most master painters were never much aware of the work of other painters until they had enough fame to travel anyway. The art renewal center has a lot of super high resolution images for student purposes anyway.
I could go with out the museum or the fancy culture for a quality art education in a place I could really focus. But AFFORD. Wouldnt mind getting some debt for the kind of education offered.... Still. I would rather pay for the schooling and not all the fancy frill around the edges.

Keep up the great work-you guys are the best. Be the change!

[~Faust~]

I think that for most of the european art students this would be an opportunity that is largely unchallenged. Our education system lies in shatters and although it is fairly cheap to get overall it lacks on all fronts. Afaik professionals from europe in the illustration sector are largely self-taught because of that and for that grossly underdeveloped.

Having said that, I disagree on the notion that tuition doesn't matter. I understand this is very expensive business and the prize may be more that justified and I for one would be slaving my ass of trying to scrape up the money to go there, but i wouldn't go into dept for it. The creative sector here has been largely neglected and the payments and morals are minute compared to what I hear from the US.

[joshfitzart]

I want to start off by stating my deep appreciation for what you are doing. You have an innate ability to generate innovation and run with it. I expect great things from this school, please don't disappoint!

Personally, I believe I have some schooling still to go through (currently enrolled in a multimedia program) before I can take this intimate direction. My passion is art, if there is a career there I will take the necessary steps to walk that path. If I can be of support I will!

That said, there is a lot to consider financially. These investments in time and money are risky; and pursuit can be caught up by life's little loopholes. Keep pushing this industry thinking. There is clearly an advantage to direct transmission of knowledge from professionals. If you can offer that you have a powerful system.

Keep doing what you do! You make a worthy bid -- well worth the willing pursuant!

[Erithe]

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for, tbh. To have online & on site components and the opportunity to increase my skill levels under people who actually know what is expected professionally is something you can't get at most universities if you want to get into commercial art of any kind. You would have to go to a very specific art school, and those aren't exactly common place. So, yes, having access to that kind of information would be amazing. To be able to do so without leaving home and my current work ... even better.

I -am- interested in getting a degree, but, as others have said before me, in a practical profession, it's your work that stands out, not your degree. If you haven't mastered the techniques and understand the business, you're not going to get anywhere. Far better to have some real experience in your portfolio and respected teachers to vouch for your work and your ethic.

[DARAF]

You have my attention. What do you have in mind? I await the details.

[Mischeviouslittleelf]

Wow that seems like a really good program. I would ove to attend, even if there is no accreadidation, as that is not a big issue in this buisness, as long as you have a good portfolio, you are well sett:) I would like to know wich artists one would be studying under, but seeing as this is Manley, I would guess that the artists would be pretty mint. Problem about a program without accreddidation is that I wouldn't be able to get a students loan here in Norway, so that would be a bitch, but that is something that can be worked around I suppose.

So with all the icing you just threw on this cake, I would be pretty much taken at this point:)

-E

[Dulchis]

Well it's a big fat yes from me, too...
But I'm still torn between financial aid and the available degree.
I think both are equally important, in a way. I don't think I would be attending if there wasn't a degree or diploma involved at the end (having one earns you a better living, either way you see it), but financial support would be necessary to even begin thinking about such an opportunity.

It sounds really interesting in theory... Would love to hear more about the subject!

[ajvenema]

im not really sure about how the school systems in usa work, but why can't this education get a degree?

the thing im wondering is mainly, what does this education miss, so that it doesnt give you a degree?

and of course without a degree, you have nothing left but art, with a degree anywhere, its possible to find decent jobs anywhere, but without the degree, you only have mad art skills, so what if that doesnt work out?

for the rest, sounds great!

[david1309]

im almost finishing art school, but i dont wanna be part of this anymore. i have no talent.

[paintchip]

I have been in and out of college since 1993. I am a true art student. I have a love/hate relationship with my art. I love the release I experience when a piece comes together and sums up all I have been experiencing. However, I can't stomach the idea that something I love so much would get whored out in a crappy sign shop, or some vile advertising agency...so I get bummed out and put away my sketchbooks, until my muse comes back...I recently have been considering returning to a local college for art classes. But, I would love to be able to come home from work, and learn to draw, like all the cats, on this site. In conclusion, sign me up senor. I would love to stop running my mouth for once, and actually make a living, creating the images that make me happy :{)

[vibhas_virwani]

Money is the problem

Money is a problem...

Big problema...

Dude you forget to say that here (In Argentina) the average salay its like (If you are lucky) $500 dollars = $2000 Pesos...(monthly) When in the US the average salary is like $3000/4000 dollars

So 4 pesos = 1 Dollar

So... we have to pay EVERYTHING 4 TIMES MORE!!!!!!
AND WE EARN 4 TIMES LESS!!!!!!!

That why you dont see too much latin american people doing art this days.

That is the simple reason why we are fuckt up!!!!

1 USD = 48/49 Rupees :) our avg salary is abt 300$ a month which is about 10+ times less than an avg american salary , but we can always hope for a scholarship :D

[Dylanepw]

CA! I'm actually in full burnout at my school... I'm 2/3 of the way into my bfa in video game design art the art institute of seattle. If you guys were willing to hook me up with some transfer credits from there I would pack my bags and move to san francisco in a week flat to do this (even if it's not necessary!) The predicament i feel this school has left me in has me searching very hard to find other options, and so far I'm screwed-- I want a degree, and I'm more than willing to do the work and put in the time, but I simply don't have a viable option that wouldn't leave me back at square one. With this many tens-of-thousands-of-dollars hanging over my head, a lackluster education from a second-rate (very corporate) private school isn't at all what I want. Please, lets DO THIS, count me in.

[Pixeltuner]

Well I'm not an art-student anymore, in fact I studied Interaction Design which was more building interfaces and installations in a more applied way but I'd love to have a bit of extra education by the best in the industry... I don't really care about a real degree to be honest, it's more of a knowledge thing. What about part-time or online, for the working people among us? ;)

[CruShTinbOX]

Yes, I would absolutely do it as long as I can get financial aid. Don't really care about a degree, I already have one.

[ethan karnopp]

I love the idea, but the half of *insert big private art school name here*'s tuition scares me a bit.

For me I'd need to be able to meet/see my class and teachers on a few occasions, as well as be able to attend a few workshops for that to be plausible. Estimating on the low end 20k/semester w/8 semesters comes out to 160k, so 80k, while that number IS half of 160k, for me it would not be an affordable solution (even compared to traditional art schools given scholarships as well as federal aid, grants, etc.). The scholarships would make this easier, assuming that it would be akin to a portfolio scholarship you may get from an art school that will be offered to multiple students, rather than a lord-of-the-flies-esque battle for the one coveted scholarship available. It's hard to put a price on education, and I feel somewhat cynical for stating some of these things, but fact of the matter is: finance is a major factor.

[John]

I'm here practicing and waiting. It would be good to know what the entry level for the program might look like for students, and what it would take to get a scholarship. How will that be handled - based on the portfolio? What are you looking for in a portfollio?

[BlueVon]

id be up for that! i just recently graduated this past spring here at MCAD in minneapolis and i felt like a lot of technical stuff like maya and other software were left out of what i could do. some of the students that graduated here said they "had the MCAD experience and had a great time"... i feel like i didnt. i still want to know more and want to have a stronger network and there is so much that the school could offer me in X amount of months. so i feel like with this, connecting with other artists and professionals all over the world would really help me out a lot more and a lot faster than what i got out of art school here.

[Igor Sandman]

I'm currently attending evening classes in drawing from life and illustration. My ambition is becoming a succesful illustrator AND concept designer. My evening classes take care of the illustration part, but I was thinking of a way to learn concept art on the side. What you guys at CA are putting up interrests me a LOT. The only problem is money. These evenig classes cost me 95€ a year >.> can't do cheaper ... But I'm worried about how much your educational program would cost. I still need to check all those comparisons you gave, but I doubt my level of life will allow me to afford it. I'm not sur how financial aid works worldwide either and if my situation allows me access to any of them. So there are a lot of questions in my mind right now, but one thing is sure: I'd die to enter your educational program in concept art. (Then again if i'm dead I can't take the best out of it . . .)
One last word, everything you do at CA and MB is plain awesome. your workshops, your videos, this forum. This new thing is gonna kick some asses, I'm sure.
Thank you.

[nickzorn]

I would love to. Doubt I could afford it even with financial aid though, unless said financial aid was in the form of grants and scholarships (I have already been screwed out of about 60K by going to Westwood, so more student loans isn't an option for me).

[Pixel Dust]

If there was any way to afford to do it - I would do it in an instant.

Money will always be a problem.

Now if it was just up the road from me - that would certainly make a difference.

[Raoul Duke]

I actually prefer a more casual approach. I'm cash and carry myself. I only take the amount of classes I can afford, which is usually one or two at a time.

I think art is best taught in person. That's the only way to learn the physical elements of art, such as how to hold your pencil, good posture and thumbing angles etc.

I think the digital side would be best for homework and critiques for digital projects.

[Tintreas]

If I had stayed in my last art college where dead mice on sticks were much more valid as a medium then paint then I would have said an instant yes to all of these.

However; I'm now going into my second year of one of the best illustration courses in england and I feel I have a little more perspective. I imagine your course has a very strong bias towards realistic painting skills, fantasy or otherwise and the conceptual skills you teach are more along the the lines of charactr design, worldbuilding etc.

What about the other side to illustration, the modern side? You may not agree with all of it but there is something to be said for extreme stylisation or unusal media and different approaches.

Could anyone coming from your online course go into.. fashion illustration? Comics in a modern style? childrens books? Editorial illustration?

An argument would be that only people who were aiming for concept work and traditional painting skills would take your course but who knows at that age where their skills really lie in the broad spectrum of art? I have a knack for character design, a fair ability at realism for someone my age and I do love the brilliant masterful painting ability you'd teach best but I can't help feeling being shackled so firmly to an ethos of what is right and wrong in art and painting could be unhelpful for the few. Especially given the (our) tendancy to sound off about the rest of the art world.

Also, Yes I think most art schools are terrible, but there is something to be said for being around other people of our own age, level, interests... This applies most to people coming out of school and I do imagine a course like this would attract a lot of mature studants, but for the late teens - early twenties our college years can be unbelievably important in shaping our character and independance. Not to mention a time when most people find thier future spouse. Is it really good or healthy to spend so much time in our studios alone worrying about our future career, even in an area we love? If I worked from home, only regularly seeing masters work, while my art would be better in one sense, my horizons would also narrow in every sense and I have no doubt (as I did precisely this for two years) that my confidence in myself and my work would take regular hits.

This style of working does make one a bit crazy as all hermatige does.

So.. in brief, can you or how will you tackle the problems of isolation, teach outside of your in-house style, let people be individuals as well as masters, not encourage idol worship and train a series of essentially.. clone styles.

[Loakers]

Brilliant survey. Please keep us updated by emails on this. Im in my final year of computer arts and its time to really push the boat out.

[faetea]

Having job opportunities included would make it very attractive.

The month long real world component, and the exclusive real world workshops with tuition, flight, and hotel included sounds excellent.

I've already graduated from a public university with a BFA, but if I could earn a scholarship and manage the online classes with work, I would definately consider it.

[Anuran]

Jason,

I think all of things you mentioned are great selling points that I can't recall ever seeing at other online programs. So yeah, I would be swayed by all of them. I would push for as much real world interaction as possible though. You asked for opinions from current art students and I am one. My experience so far has been unique because I am older than most students. That has led to some challenges, but it has also made me less compromising on the important things. I am actually at my second art school, the third one I have taken classes at. So, here are some of the things that I have found to be fundamentally important.

Quality. I have NO doubt that you folks will provide great quality so, I'll skip this, but it's the most important thing.

Structure. I know most art students claim they aren't fond of it. I gripe about it too. I was in the military and I griped about it there. At the end of the day, structure keeps you moving forward when you might otherwise succumb to frustration, fear or lethargy.


Degree. Even though I have been told that in the art world it is your portfolio that provides you with all of your currency, I think a degree is important. I worked for 12 years before I went back to school full time and that experience has shown me that a degree is important everywhere else. Looking at this pragmatically, most people have to make some money elsewhere while they start their art careers. If you have a degree that will be easier. The other reason is that Liberal Arts provide you with a common base of knowledge from which you can inform your art.

Skill based learning and grading.
One thing that I have noticed at the art schools that differs from my training as a mechanical draftsman or as a mechanic is that there is no rigid prerequisite system. The system is based on semesters rather than the accumulation of skill. In either of the two training systems I mentioned before, I was required to show a minimum level of competency in a particular skill so that I could progress to the next stage of training. From what I have read, the Atelier system works this way. In all of the art classes I have taken, I have seen people receive grades that allowed them to progress when their work and effort did not warrant it. Just like the idea of structure, sometimes we have to be forced to do something before we can really understand its value.

Student interaction.
This is the single most important aspect of my time at school. I learn from other people's failures and successes daily. I know without any doubt that it has accelerated my progress. It's a love/hate thing. I am constantly irritated by them, but I am also influenced by them. I don't know how you can resolve that with an online program. In my view this is one of the biggest sticking points.

Teacher interaction.
You've probably already solved this. I would just like to say that all of my classes are overcrowded and it's ruining them. Further, traditional classes provide you with opportunities to connect with teachers you admire on a personal level. If you are successful, they will become peers. I would really be worried about marginalizing those connections with online classes.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts. I love this website, I think it is hands down the best one around. Thanks for putting it together and working so hard to provide new, better opportunities.

Thank you,

David Golas
davidgolas@comcast.net

[Benjaminba]

Sounds fantastic, but I still don't think it's a viable option for me. Studying under such amazing artists would be incredible, though.

I'm from Denmark - there are no art schools in Denmark which teach fine arts. Heck, there aren't even any places to attend life drawing "classes" ( even without an instructor) in a 100km radius of where I live. There is The Animation Workshop, which is a good school, but focused almost solely at 2D and 3D animation. The BA at the workshop is $17k all in all - and one of the few educations in DK which require self payment.

The tax burden in Denmark is very high; almost 50% of one's income goes to taxes. Meanwhile, we have free schools, high schools and universities and get financial aid at official educational institutions (from $500-$900 monthly).

Even half the cost of a private US art school is impossible for me.


If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?


The ideal solution for me would be an online course of either one or two semesters (accredited, but not like a BA degree - if that's even possible in the US) with a month-long real world component. However, I doubt I could pay more than $17k...
I also agree with Tintreas that spending much time alone is tough. I will get excellent tuition, which is great, but costly - and on top of that it will be pretty lonely. I've already lived the hermit life for a year and I was okay with that. However, I'm not sure I could justify the cost coupled with the isolation to myself - certainly not if it's over a year.


Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?


I love the downloads and live online classes you are doing; I took the colour class and composition class on-demand. Great stuff, but being able to put something on my CV would be good, too. It doesn't have to be a BA degree, but something - a good portfolio is the most important, of course, but many companies do look at that degree.

I still think an online school is a good idea. In fact, an online school is the only way I can study arts besides being self-taught.

[janni]

if it'll be possible to pick some individual classes out of your full time curriculum and attend them together with the other students i am in.
that way i'd be more flexible on how much time i spend after work and how much tuition i pay each term.

in general: flexibility, a mix and match curriculum, and studying from home are the points that are important to me! summer classes in the us are not an option for me.

and it's just great you're doing it. this internet thingy has come a long way since people started posting some pictures on sijun...

[Fahad]

I voted:

yes if there was a way I could study at the conceptart.org atelier at the same time and get financial aid for both


And please let me explain why (Italics wont go away ?):

I never had the opportunity to get any form of art-education when I was all alone. Now I have children, which means that regardless of what one might think, art WILL come second. Food for my children just plain will come first.
If I had no children, I could easily live off of scraps (one or two m&m's a day) just to scrape through and save cash to be able to get an education in arts.

.....
.....
.....

So if you can solve the cash-problem I would be the first to sign up, in fact I already signed up before you asked!


I second that.

[Wayne R.]

It's a great idea, and can't be anything but A Good Thing for the board's members.

However...
I often joke that if there was a module/lesson/period devoted to getting employment in the art, design, graphics & illustration fields, I was away for that one. There's probably a pretty healthy surplus of (other) bitter & twisted would-be artists in the world. Just my 0.2 USD, but could the course be supplemented by some sound advice on presenting and marketing candidates' work? Also, some information on routes into the jobs market, expected earnings, experiences and advice from pros, being a freelancer, being self-employed and so on.

[utopiangem]

Almost sounds too good to be true.

But if it becomes a reality then it's a resounding yes from me!

[Dile_]

hehe if there was a way to acquire student aid for this i'd definitely be interested...! i'd do anything actually.

[wahay]

Degree would be nice, but not necessary. I'd only need a degree to increase my chances at a Starbucks-esque job, not an art job.

Financial aid opportunities should be offered, in my opinion. Those that have worked to succeed deserve a chance to pay less, if it helps further their education.

The real-life workshops, with travel and lodge expenses covered, is too good to be true, and would definitely be a huge perk for me.

[pixelfuture]

Some sort of financial aid would be great.

[KonnA]

I live in the UK at the moment, I don't think I could benefit from this as much as if I were in America. However if I was I'd definitely want to try this!

However, at the moment where I live all education is free.

[hesterstowel]

Studio Art major, sophomore, graduation '12

I voted yes, but to be honest, I have no idea. When you say half the tuition of SCAD, that's about... let me see if I remember, rofl... half of about $25,000 a year. At this moment in time, I'm paying about $8,000 a year to go to school (with scholarships and stuff that I've accrued, and work study as well, OTL), and, to be frank, my parents are not well off and even my off-campus digs, which are a heck of a lot cheaper than the on-campus accommodations, are still punching my parents in the stomach. I think going back up into the $12,000 range (which was what I was paying last year) would kill them, and, uh, I love my mommy, so that's a no.

(BTW - UT Austin, Longhorns holla!)

The only reason I'm going to a state university is because my parents want me to have a wide range of subjects to choose from just in case the art thing doesn't work out and because it's within their budget. If you guys can give me opportunities for scholarships (which would help with the latter issue) and can guarantee that I can at least get my foot in the door (which would completely help with the first subject), I'd say I'd give your university a try. OH, and a degree matters too, because that's the reason my mom wants me to go anywhere at all. She wants me to have a proper college education. =D

Otherwise, that sounds completely fantastic! Logistics and location issues aside, it definitely sounds like this program would help me more than what I'm learning in a regular art school right now. The discounted price isn't bad either. =) I just hope that this university is dedicated to helping illustrators learn what they really need to know. With enough luck, that's all we'll need.

[insomb]

Not a chance in hell! I still wouldn't even consider it if Jacques Louis David came back from the dead to teach the class with Ingres as his teaching assistant. There is absolutely NOTHING on earth that would convince me to substitute my studio education for an online one. I don't care if it was free, and everyone in the art world blew me immediately upon signing up. It's the worst idea I have ever heard. It's bad enough with the bullshit credits mandatory at traditionally accredited art schools. You must be out your damn mind.

[carsonsky]

been working ever since I graduated from my college in Malaysia, I plan to further improve my understanding towards this field. Can't wait to see what you guys can come up with, definitely eager to join ;)

[jackal111]

As someone who is just not able to attend a traditional art school like SCAD or Ringling, I can honestly say that I would love to participate. But when it comes down to it, if this is an unaccredited program with little or no chance for financial aid then I highly doubt you will get any kind of real participation from your targeted potential students. At even half the cost of a major school, the cost is still too much.

To make this reasonable for those (like me) that would seriously consider attending, even given some of the potential perks mentioned, the total annual cost would have to be under $6k. At around $4-500 per month, I would very seriously consider enrolling.

If you can seriously hold the cost to students down, then sign me up!

[realitychek]

I voted "yes if there was a way to study in person with instructors over the summer".
To be quite honest, I am ok with learning online, however, like many people have already said, there is nothing better than being able to learn in person.
Cost is also a bit of an issue but seeing the amount I'll be in debt for when I finish college, I'm sure the price of whatever you have planned is quite comparable. Of course I would love some scholarship opportunities but even if there weren't any I would seriously consider signing up anyway.
Convincing the parents would be a bit of a struggle with this (the idea of taking online courses and not getting a degree in the end might be a little, um, difficult for them to understand :/ ) But personally I don't care about a degree, I care about results.
The only other problem I can think of is this first month I've been at college, I've met some absolutely amazing peers and artists and I would find it exceedingly hard to choose between this program you're thinking about or being around them 24/7 to bounce creative ideas off of and be inspired by. Real life human interaction goes a long way.
Right now, there's no way I could pull this off, but if this is ready in a year or two (depending on what college turns out to be like this first year here...), awesome.
But. If the cost stays on the lower end of things and it ends up being as amazing as it already sounds (which I'm sure it will be) then I will seriously be considering this. Also, one last thing, I would love it if we could either pick and choose certain classes to take......I keep thinking this over and over because I would sign up immediately for this program because I KNOW you guys would provide all the essentials plus some for anything like this, however the interactions I've had so far this first year at college have been priceless. Going with my feelings on this tho....if you can pull off all the things you talked about Jason.....I'm going to say sign me up.

[ckmoore]

If you could attend an online program with direct access to the top professionals from a variety of fields (depending on the area of focus...Fine Art, Animation, Concept Art, Illustration etc...), with each class taught by the very best in that area of expertise and it included opportunities for jobs, ability to expose your work to the top companies, galleries, art directors and the like...as well as had financial aid. If it was half the cost of a private art school like Ringling or Art Center or SCAD, would you do it?


Yes!

Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?

I already have a (non-art) degree and I realize in the art work the portfolio is the best documentation to have, so a degree is not important. It would be nice to receive something to say I went and finished. (dons t-shirt saying "I attended conceptart.org's online school, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt")

Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?
Considerable Scholarhips would be EXTREMELY enticing.

If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?
I would absolutely love this. The only problem would be that I currently have a wife, a baby, and a full time job (that I hate). Being the sole-income provider would make this incredibly difficult. If there was a way to work around it, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?
Not really.

Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?
Yes.

Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?
Yes.

What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?
I suppose that might sway me a little bit...

Please vote and discuss. If you have time I would be curious to your thoughts.

Additional thoughts - how many students would be allowed in? When would it possibly start? I've been looking for a GOOD online school that doesn't put me extremely in debt, and this could be it. Otherwise, I'm stuck learning on my own.

Would there be any kind of "life" drawing to the class? (models, still lifes, etc - both drawing and painting)? If so, how would this work?

Thanks, and good luck!

-C. K. Moore

[RiSK]

Yes! Even if I couldn't go (which I probably couldn't due to my huge ass student loans I've taken out for my first two degrees), it still sounds like an amazing opportunity for all artists that want to excel.

The degree might be necessary to make it accessible to international students, but personal, I don't care about one - as a student for the last 8 years, I know it's about the connections you make with other students and instructors that is really what's worth paying for. But then again, that's in a traditional academic setting (UC Berkeley and Academy of Art), so what do I know?

[OriginalAdric]

I'm a 4th year student in Sheridan's animation program, and as appealing as much of this program sounds, I have to say that for a core program, I'd stick with a traditional school. I love the idea of being able to take supplemental classes online, but for a focused, dedicated course of study, I can't overlook the personal side of the traditional approach.

The content and structure of this proposed program appears solid, but I agree with the others who have said that in-person, tactile training is absolutely necessary. I find that to be especially so in fundamental classes like lifedrawing. It's one thing to have a teacher critique your work, but it's a whole other animal to have your teacher take your conte and draw over your work, showing you what needs to be fixed. While a summer study component would alleviate that somewhat, having that direct connection on a consistent, long-term basis is key.

As was also mentioned, student interaction is a huge benefit of a more traditional system. Our 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year students have dedicated studio space with individual desks. Just being able to walk around and talk to others, sharing ideas and critiques, helps to generate an atmosphere of drive and intensity that I find very motivating. Being in constant company with hard-working artists provides both inspiration and some level of competition. While that's certainly present online (this whole site is an excellent example), it's much more magnified when you're encountering it personally on a daily basis.

As a secondary note, not having a degree is a deal-breaker for me. If I decide in the future that I want to take a teaching gig or get an advanced degree, I don't want to have to go through even more schooling to get my Bachelors first.

[hellyeahpanda]

I think that if a scholarship was possible for students it would definitely encourage them.
Financial aid is also a must because not everyone gots the moneys you know?
so that would be another plus.

[spawner187]

hi this sounds very cool, i give my support, and like always, anybody that talks about art, here in mexico i will recomend it to study with MS. sure if they can pay it, but for me is long term goal to meet you guys, i`m working to get my visa, the problem with me is i don`t like to give blowjobs to the goverment, is like giving away my ass. here education is worst than mafia, they are legal and have everything prostitution, corruption, ilegal money....bla bla..

and i don`t have a nobel prize(or similar prize), to get in the U.S.(check emigration terms so you know i`m not lying)


i had worked with students from some art school`s here and they don`t even know how to use a fuckin chalk line for escaling pieces, then they tell me -you should study art-....c`mon they full of shit!!, but they can name Andy Warhol!!...and look like that bloodsucker......

keep the fist up!!!

i hope you understand my messy english....

[stratefaced]

This would be really cool, however America's student loan policies pretty much state no degree, no money...period. Especially with the budget crisis and other problems. Since I work full time while still going to school, I would need all the help I could get. But I would love to go to a college completely devoted to art for a fraction of the cost.

[DJ B.]

An emphatic YES on all fronts from here!

[Momus]

I'm paying out-of-province rates for a Quebec art school so "half the cost of a private art school like Ringling or Art Center or SCAD" is already more than twice what I'm paying. Maybe I'd take it part-time, though.

[PHATandy]

I agree with everyone here really.

Its the idea that you get no 'real' tutor time, live and in person that puts me off.
This is what would almost always turn me away from any online tutoring.
Videos and other media are good, but when compared to say sitting down with you or Carl Dobsky, getting real, in person feedback. It doesnt even compare.

And when the atelier still seems affordable compared to the big schools. I dont think this would be anywhere near as useful as the atelier.
Although the gallery and workshop additions sounds good.

I assume this would work for a lot of people though, who might find it hard to move to go to University etc etc

Look forward to hearing what your up to :)

Andy.

[KEM720]

It certainly sounds too good to be true. I love it. Unfortunately, I am in the same boat as a lot of other people. If I can't afford it, I can't participate. I just pulled out a huge student loan and even if this school is half the cost, I will probably never come out of debt with the loans I already have. If there is a way to work for tuition in conjunction with a job and scholarships/financial aid, I would be on board. Haha, I wish this idea would have come sooner. :)

[Azurelle]

Am I swayed?

No.

Why not?

Considering me being a student and knowing what MB workshops usually cost I would simply lack the money.

Aside from this I think that any kind of teaching which could help students have a breakthrough would be a pretty good thing, wich I would favor to be taught in person instead of online. If the price to get there was quite high, it would be awesome if the hotel was included.

But I wonder what kinds of students you are looking for when you are promising to help them getjobs in the industry. Are you then rather looking for diaments which just need to be shaped, so to speak?
Wouldn't all those new artists that you help enter the industry mean less jobs for MB guys?
Or do you plan to hire them yourselfes?
This would be quite unusual because you would let them pay first for you to teach them the final stuff they need and all else they need to know to work with your company, which is something at least art schools at Europe usually don't do which means they can promise less jobs than you can.

Please excuse me if this message looks a little strange at some points; I am writing with my Iphone.

PS: in the field of art it doesn't matter to me if MB could offer me a degree. Learning from good teachers would be much more important to me. Since all that matters is the art and not the certificate you got. :)

[XuperNova]

Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?

Degrees are important in terms of resume content but I think the program content is more crucial.

Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?

If the scholarship is based on progress, then yes.

If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?


Big yes! I think the online program is already hugely beneficial especially for overseas students but nothing beats face time with the instructors.

Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?

YES!!!!

Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?

YES!

Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?

YES!

What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?

YES!

[Tumbleweed]

I am currently a graphic design student at the Art Institute of Pittsburgh (though I live in Canada), going to school online. I honestly don't feel like I'm getting the best education out there. I would prefer to go to school where I dealt with people face to face, because sometimes it's hard always trying to get to know people through a computer. I will never talk to any of my classmates again, who I believe would be important to talk to again to see how they have gotten themselves out there after their studies.

Your program almost sounds too good to be true! I would love to be able to study online, but have the option of studying in the summer in the real world. And workshops? WOW! Seriously I wish this was available before I started my classes!

[Anariel]

Certainly, I would love to study with you guys, but in my personal case its more difficult. I'm colombian and I'm currently living in Bogotá, I've been looking for financial aid or scholarship here in my country. However, the only way that I can study at the concept art atelier is if you give a paper, certificate or diploma. If you can give that to your students, well, I could get a scholarship and study with you. But the money is always a problem.

[Taven]

if a degree was tied into the financial aid, accreditation [to get additional aid from the local government- damn bahamas] AND a degree [to appease the parental units], i would tell these other colleges to go fuck themselves and i'd apply in a heartbeat.

This program sounds like an awesome concept. I pretty much agree with the above, however. Without a degree for the program, getting parental finicial support is dubious, while with it they might jump at the chance. I love the idea of finacial aid/scholarships for it, because that further helps. Finally, I really like the idea of face-to-face time in the summer for learning, because while online is an amazing tool, there are somethings that need person-to-person interaction. I know if all this was possible, I would be one of the first to sign up.

--Taven

[Deadpetal]

I love the idea of it but the thing I love the most about going into an actual classroom is the fact that i get to meet new people and actually work with them. As an artist, I don't get out of the house much and school forces me to go out and meet actual people. I've tried many online courses and they just aren't as exciting as being in an actual classroom not to mention that schools have the programs I myself can not afford; being a starving artist and all. Then again, it is difficult to find teachers that will teach technique.

[Dreamscape]

Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?
-All of these questions are great. I am a current student at Academy of art University, second year in 3D animation. I currently am running a collaboration crew of students / professionals to make short animated films (you've porbabley seen this in the non-paying thread) I also work for a startup video game company. Now here is the thing that I foresee:

- A lot of U.S / European companies require you (if your in 3d animation or similiar) to have your Bachelors degree. I went to BU for a certificate in 3d animation (certified in Maya 7.0), applied to bluesky studios, human resources passed my reel to the recruiting manager, but was declined "lack of bachelors degree in traditional arts". If conceptart.org could have some type of accreditation for online courses that would be great. Also keep the classes small 30 to one instructor online instead of doing something like 400 students / one teacher.

Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?
-Not sure how the scholarships would work, most scholarships that I've applied for are either health or university related.. Unless concept art is building a school?! Hell yah!

If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?

-Yes

Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?

-Depends if the Art Gallery was able to project digital art on flatscreen tv's

Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?

oh yeah

Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?-Yes!!!

What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?-That would be more amazing than being told no all the time from current professors that a collaborated animation short will not make you famous :(

Please vote and discuss. If you have time I would be curious to your thoughts.

[Mat Kaminski]

I would be beyond wanting to attend such an awesome opportunity, but a few questions that immediately comes to mind are,

How much would a program like this cost?

How long is the actual program going to last?

When would this program actually be available?

[Zirngibism]

...Without a degree for the program, getting parental finicial support is dubious, while with it they might jump at the chance.
--Taven

You bring up a good point that probably applies to several people here.

I'm in a bit of the same boat. My parents would be helping me pay for this, and so far they're pretty lukewarm about the idea of my possibly not getting any type of degree or "credit" for it.

Granted, my parents don't really understand this field, and they never make any art of their own, so they don't really understand education for the simple sake of learning and self improvement.

But see, it wouldn't have to be a full-blown BFA or anything like that. As long as we get SOMETHING; some kind of piece of paper that says we have at least SOME nationally/internationally recognized credit. It wouldn't even have to be that much (though more would be preferred if it wouldn't be too much trouble!) ;-).

Especially since this program is a new start-up. It seems rather "non-legit" to my parents so far without some kind of outside acknowledgement. (I probably would feel a little distrustful if I were in their shoes, that is, not really knowing what Massive Black is all about.)

[SpookyPooka]

If I could afford the costs, yes. While the degree doesn't matter so much to me, because I know that in the art world, it's your skill that gets you work, not the degree. Problem is, I don't do so well with online work. I prefer to work in person, and it helps me to interact with others. It sounds like a great idea, and I'd be willing to give it a try.
(I honestly don't give a damn about studying abroad. San Fran is perfect enough.

[silvestri99]

This sounds uber exciting and would be something I would be extremely interested in looking into. I attended the Art Institute of Seattle and after I finished I found that I really craved some traditional training that wasn't available in Seattle either due to cost or lack of a program.

What you descibe Jason seems to be the dream education that I (and I'm sure many others) are looking for. The problem that I have ,and your younger students wont have, is that I work full time and have a family. An online education with the right instructors would be awesome and being able to work one-on-one would be cool as well but I wouldn't be able to take a summer off to go and get all the hands on training. A weekend here and there or even a week may be doable though.
You might consider offering week long training in differnt cities during the course of the year so that it may be easier for students to get there.

I know that if you want something bad enough that you have to be willing to make sacrifices, but accessability may increase you interest. Then people like myself may have a better chance of making their dreams into reality.

By the way, the isdea of scholorships or finiancial aid is a must. I definitly couldn't pay for it out of pocket.

Thanks for heading in this direction!!!! You're a man witha vision!!!

[r.littlewolf]

I'm really curious how this degree would be viewed by the general community and what sort of accreditation would be had for this school. I have friends who have learned the hard way that if you drop out of an unaccredited institution, all those classes you took and all the money you spent is worth nothing.

I think there are probably a lot of people who would be willing to take this course without any financial aid but I'm not personally one of them. I would absolutely need access to aid and/or scholarships to be able to attend. Even at half the tuition costs for SCAD, I'd still be paying more than I am for college at my local university.

Also, what sort of programs would be available to post-bach students? Are you going to offer a master's degree as well? That would 100% influence my decision to attend as I don't need a second bachelor's degree but I will eventually want to get my master's.

[James Gerard]

I am an artist . I Have had very little time to experiment with concept art. However what I have done has amazed me.This site has become at least 60% of my inspiration. I would post my work here if I still had a scanner, felt I had the time ,and I thought it was neccessary to get an assesment that I feel that I already have from my own critique.
I have been watching this site for a long time. One thing that has always bothered me is my own fear of the submissive attitude toward corporate insentives in the concept artwork feild that seem to take place from the mere fact that there are such "BIG"names in this field. I think that there is too much of a focus on popularity as far as any grouping of people go and I think it is safe to say that conceptart.org is a significant grouping of people... now at this point you may be asking something to the effect of "what are you jabbering about shipmate"... well I want to present the idea that you are much more usefull as an artist if you seek to present more introspective ideas... Far be it for me to say that learning something inspiring from someone "successfull" is not good to do but for me its like fattening food. You learn what tastes good but in moderation always attempting to remain healthy. Taste being the knowledge and health being your originality. I then now say to acknowledge the quotes surrounding "successfull" as they are meant indeed to say "define success". Lastly but not least...ly I dont see any reason for conceptart.org to involve itslelf and try and make money at the same time. Im sure that if all those "successfull" artists care in a way that has any merrit or prestige they would give this education away for free seeing as how they already sell the Massive black paraphernalia ect to keep this site going.

Degrees insult me ... they only seek to tell you what your good at and they belittle and limit any form of education ... If Im to be given a documentation of my success let it be in what Ive done not what others suspect and assume I am capable of from only what they have to teach me and have seen of me.




the end

[Sebastard]

40-day art-freshling here :).

As a general rule i would say no simply because i'm spoiled by the fact that swedish education doesn't have a monetary cost. I'm also not interested in going to an expensive art school like SCAD because i don't think it's worth the money.

Howeveeeeerrr.

I would be interested in this for the simple reason that it is working shoulder-to-shoulder (more or less) with some of the most prestigious, influential and skilled artists in the world. It'd be learning from the DaVinci's and Rembrandt's of our time, so to speak, and i think that for an experience of that calibre, the monetary sacrifice is a minor thing compared what i'd get out of it...


...if i was a better artist :P.

Nah, but i'll need at least 2-3 years of training before i'd even approach to become acceptable for this sort of thing. Once i've reached that level of skill, sign me up. If you say 50% of the cost of SCAD, which would be 14 000-15 000 US dollars, which at the going rate would be around 100 000 SEK...it's not that hard. I can make that easily if i work hard save up for a couple of months.

Keep in mind that without formal accreditation and degrees, alot of international (and domestic, i imagine) students wouldn't be able to get financial aid. Might be an idea to keep that in mind, which i am sure you have. Now for some of the questions you posed :).





Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?
No. Degree is just a piece of paper, but i don't think i would get the swedish student loan office to approve loans without formal accreditation.

If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?
Of course. That'd be a very large boon.

Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?
Depends on where. I've visited art galleries in Paris, Berlin, Prag, Budapest, Stockholm and Oslo, and thus far i haven't been smitten by any of them. Give me a name ;).

Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?
100% most definitely, absolutely, yes :).

Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?
Absolutely.

What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?
That would be one of the reason i would attend - exposure....and the lovely boon of your company, of course :P.

[spicylemon]

So I've been a member of this forum for over 2 years, never posted, but saw this in my inbox and just had to take a look! Also, holler to my Icelandic homies! Surprised at how many there were just on the first page. Though I have dual citizenship here in the US, so I'm not quite on the same boat.

There are a lot of components of this program that are incredibly enticing, such as having "direct" access to major artists and companies that could really set you up career-wise. I can see how, if you don't have an art institution in your area or the funds to go to one, this would be a really great option. I also think this would be great for people who already have degrees and aren't necessarily looking for another one. However, I think, like a lot of other people, that NOTHING can replace face-to-face interaction. ESPECIALLY if you are undergraduate, like I am. So I'll be speaking from that viewpoint.

I just started my 3rd year at art school, and it's the second one I've been to (yay transferring, so much fun -- not really. lol). Before I started college, I was very much into online art communities, and I think the people that I met virtually and the things I learned from them are invaluable. I learned the basics of critique, for example. With tutorials and animated replays of oekaki drawings I gathered some skills and techniques that really helped me after high school. Et cetera. If I had seen this option being put out here at CA right now back then, I probably would have jumped on it immediately, without a second thought. Having already spent so much time online, I would definitely not have minded being a homebody, and might even have entertained the fantasy of doing art at a coffee shop while doing critique online with my colleagues.

But knowing what I know now, having been through half of my BA education, I don't know if I would recommend online school as an alternative to someone who has access to a real-world institution (emphasis on that fact, I know a lot of people here don't).

I've had some great professors from the two schools I've attended so far, first and foremost. They are not first-class illustrators necessarily, nor are they famous or have the best connections to major companies, but they have just as real of an experience and can help you make connections on your own. I think being able to interact with well-known artists WOULD be great, and it is. In theory. But depending on how many students would be a part of this program and the type of interaction you would get with the instructors, would it really be that more beneficial? I mean, artists already have access to a lot of professionals, through means of email and places like this forum.

Second, like so many have said before me, interactions with peers and professors in a real-world setting is so important. It is very different working in-class on an illustration with your classmates and teacher being able to see you work as it progresses, than say submitting in stages (which we also do). Not to mention the friendships and rivalries (just as important!) that you establish. I know a lot of people here are self-driven, but someone who works on encouragement and/or competition might thrive more in a classroom/workshop setting.

In a way I think that's a lot of what you are paying for in a private art school, including (depending on the school) access to top-notch facilities, such as a variety of printers (which most people can't afford normally, let alone just one), art-specific libraries with access to REAL books, tools such as wacom tablets, scanners, cameras etc. available for borrowing/renting... the list goes on.

A summer component or a month-long workshop might fulfill some of these points, but personally I could not be enrolled full-time online. Even with financial aid that INCLUDES scholarships, grants and loans, both federal and private, I technically can't afford going to school, but here I am. Repayment will be a long hell but it's the price I'm paying for a real-life experience.

Again, great idea for those without access to it or more developed artists, but definitely not for everyone.

Sorry for the word vomit! Back to my little hole. :)

[kMh]

I must admit it sounds like an amazing program. Only 3 real possible issues I see concerning this. The first one and possibly not all that much of an issue would be the degree part. I will admit that some places look purely for skill but, some do also want a degree as well. If the job placement or help which ever it may be is good then the degree wouldn’t really matter cause with real world experience and the proper skill just about anyplace will consider you for the job.

The main issue one could perceive is with the online part. I see nothing at all wrong with online school, in fact I took my collage courses online but, I can’t help but wonder how much may be loss teaching through this medium. It is quite clear lots can be learned about art through the web, I know I personally have learned tons from others here on CA. but, can one achieve the same level of standards from a class room over to the net with a subject such as art? I don’t know and I suppose it would truly depend upon the instructor and the way they choose to teach in the end.

Also how much would something like this cost since there is no degree involved. While the majority of us know that the advice and skill some of these guys bring is absolutely priceless, those that are still young and their parents may be helping them aren’t necessarily going to want to put up a lot of money if their child isn’t getting a degree.

I truly think it sounds like a wonderful idea and personally think it would be a great experience. In my personal opinion it would just ultimately depend upon the 3 factors I listed as to whether it would work out or not.

[Emiri]

Learning is far more important than a piece of paper. That said, everything comes down to the cost for me.

[GweNdZ]

this would be great, especially if there were financial aid or a degree ^^

[shrunkendesigner]

You know what, regardless of how much it would cost, where it would be in the world, I'd quit my job to go to that. Would actually care about the degree, financial aid... would just love the oppituinty to study and work alongside some industry legends.

[misosoupaddict]

Also, Yes I think most art schools are terrible, but there is something to be said for being around other people of our own age, level, interests... This applies most to people coming out of school and I do imagine a course like this would attract a lot of mature studants, but for the late teens - early twenties our college years can be unbelievably important in shaping our character and independance.

Antisocial as i am, meeting friends (and later roommates) that go to the same brick-and-mortar location for classes, that helped shape me into me. I had to deal with childish assholes sometimes, but the experience was still valuable. It's that social aspect, that thing online forums or networking sites just can't replace.


Believe me, all those perks would sway me indefinitely. However, it may be problematic for those of us who are highly kinsethetic, tactile learners. We have to be in the presence, to see, do and feel as we go. Having a place specifically for learning without any home distractions is ideal. The immersion of a college campus and classroom is something I feel I sort of need, at least personally.

However, I still think it would be worth it,even if it were after finishing private college (VA department is a bonus there) or in a supplementary/part time fashion. Learning from the Pros is no joke.

I agree that it does sound like something more suited to a Master's/continuing studies type thing, something for people who have already had their teachers physically kicking their asses. I find i learn most when my teacher stops me in the middle of drawing the model and shows me what i'm doing wrong. Which brings me to:

LIVE MODELS. LIVE MODELS. How is that problem to be tackled in an online education? It is difficult to find local access to good live models year-round. Webcams would not solve this problem, as they're still 2D, and artists learn better by using both their eyes in stereoscopic vision (blahblah sciencey mumbojumbo). Another reason why this might be better as something to supplement or continue a previous art education...

- A lot of U.S / European companies require you (if your in 3d animation or similiar) to have your Bachelors degree. I went to BU for a certificate in 3d animation (certified in Maya 7.0), applied to bluesky studios, human resources passed my reel to the recruiting manager, but was declined "lack of bachelors degree in traditional arts".

I've always said a piece of paper doesn't matter to me. The question is, who does it matter to? Blue Sky apparently, and most of the other companies i'm hoping to apply to. One of the hurdles an online school has to face is international red tape concerning accreditation, and whom companies hire. There are those divine freaks of nature who can produce top-notch work at 15 -- But what about the rest of us, the late bloomers? Most companies won't hire without those damned pieces of paper.

An online education without a degree doesn't feel that interesting. An online education linked to MB/the Ateliér without a degree HELL YEAH!.
The reputation of MB is enough to make the degree irrelevant. People see my (gathered) skills from that education, along with the knowledge of who(m) stand behind it is enough to give me a serious shot at getting a job in the industry, worldwide.

QFE.

[Adrian Wilkins]

now put those cards on the table, what kind of people are you looking for

and which artistic skill


which financial position

!

[Too Many Captains...]

The discussion is lively! Here are my $.02, as a returning freshman to a state school (after a 19 year break):
The face to face time is very important to me at this stage of my education. It's of great benefit to be able to get up, walk around and see what everyone else is doing right (or wrong). This also comes into play in terms of the immediacy that feedback occurs (though I'm not discounting the possibility of this being something possible to do online).
Financial aid, to me, is not important, it's CRITICAL. It's a make-or-break, simple as that. Scholarships would help, certainly, but I have no issue taking out mega-loans (if I absolutely must) to fund a top notch education that will give me the best shot at success in my field. I need to be able to spend the time on school and art to get the most out of my degree, not half-assing my education because I need to full-time at Target (or wherever-- I'm sure they're lovely folks) in order to cover housing, etc.
As far as a degree goes, my initial inclination is that I'd prefer to go the BFA route, but I'm not totally sold on it. I've given thought to grad school some time down the road, but it's a bit early at this point to yea/nay that. Again, if the education is top-notch, this likely would quickly become a non-issue for me.
For the rest: Oh yeah. hell yeah. count me in.
Thanks, Jason, for giving us the opportunity to give you feedback on this! Can't wait to see what's next! (oh, and where do I sign up?)
mike

[Gangsta Geek]

It sounds nice and peachy but I personally rather be face to face with my instructors. Also financial aid should be top priority to consider. But my biggest issue with art schools are the bias attitude towards other styles or approaches that are not taught or favored at the school. I'm currently at AAU and AAU likes a certain way of drawing and painting. Just like Art Center or CA likes a certain way of drawing and painting too. Its so strange to me...I always thought art was just art. I think this would be great if there was a variety of different instructors so you can learn more then just one way to do things because in the end nobody really wants to be a clone of another artist. Thats my 3 cents :)

Also Manley, are you in SF? I think I just saw you outside on Montgomery Street talking to some dude.

[Clavis]

I'm currently a high school senior who is one of the very few, very lucky individuals whose parents saved a good amount of money for my education--enough that I don't have to worry about the cost of a private four-year art school, especially if I'm offered a scholarship. I know most people aren't in the same boat.

As many others have already mentioned, an online education (even if there is a brief real-life component) can't compare to an in-person education, especially with figure drawing. It could be good, sure, but not as good as actually being there all the time.

I also wouldn't want to miss the college experience in general. Of course you can make lots of great connections with people online, but it's not the same as sitting next to them in class or hanging out with them every day. I also believe it's good to have that transition period--I'm ready to get out of my house, but not quite ready to live alone and support myself completely. College is the bridge between those periods. An online education can't offer that.

Additionally, I have a similar concern as Tintreas regarding the goals of the program. I admire a lot of concept artists and their work, but I'm not really striving for the realistic painting style that seems to be the ideal here. Even if the teachers were encouraging of different styles, someone who isn't aiming for that CA ideal would probably be alone among a class of students who all want to paint like so-and-so.

So my answer is no, I wouldn't consider it. It's just not for me--but I can imagine it would be great for other people, especially those who can't afford private art school tuition, don't mind getting an online education, are looking for something to augment the degree they've already earned, etc.

[Devlyn]

I'd definitely say absolutely yes, regardless of whether or not degree, financial aid, credit transfers, etc were available.

I'd pay straight up and walk away thankful.

[Sidharth Chaturvedi]

I'd attend the online program even if it were just a series of the online lectures that you guys are running now :P. All the extra stuff that you noted- the access to the museum, the workshops, the month-long summer program- that just sweetens it up even more. Honestly though, if money were no issue I'd get the hell out of AAU and join the online program you're proposing in a flash. The degree absolutely does not matter to me, I'm after the skills I need to draw and paint for a living, not a piece of paper. I'm attending art school simply because it's the only way I can get financial aid to survive while painting all day- otherwise I'd be looking into non-accredited programs and would probably even try for the conceptart atelier. So if I could get financial aid and/or scholarships for the online program, I'd be sold, no questions asked.

I am so damn stoked about this whole thing by the way. Can't wait till it gets off the ground.

[JTown]

Jason,
I've studied both in person and via various sorts of distance education.

I think what you are doing here has awesome potential and you should continue to strive to have an online art program. Online education is the key to the future education as illustrated by MIT putting all their class information online FOR FREE (http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/courses/courses/index.htm).

Being able to give out some sort of college level degree would be very awesome and is the logical next step for your program

Like you know, having that piece of paper doesn't get you jobs so much as being able to do the work. Knowing the right people is another benefit. But I'm sure you already have some of that in the back of your mind.

Being able to actually get to see people in real life would be nice but not necessary. Getting actual feedback and seeing live demonstrations of how things get done are what would really matter.

Being able to "pay as you go" would be beneficial to many, but having an obvious discount for those who pay up front would easily help your cash flow.

Best of luck to you.

[nauvice]

Sounds great! I think if someone can find a way to go to a private art school, they should go with that first, but this program sounds like a great alternative.

This quote.... "What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?" and two quotes in the video you posted "You just don't get that at an art school".... are misleading. I'm against those kinds of advertisements, they're cheap and distasteful. I think its best to avoid using a one in a million promise and generalizing quotes about what one person will r will not get in an art school, it sounds like those two who said it probably didn't go to one.

What could make me seriously reconsider is broadness... this whole thing sounds more like a fan service to the hardcore CA.org crowd who have already set their minds on being exactly like Massive Black artists... traditional vs digital just doesn't cut it in "difference" when the subject matter and culture is still similar. In a private art school you're surrounded by different kinds of artists from different cultures, different interpretations and different styles of expression. That and the degree that comes with the school name is why Im in a private art school.

[Zirngibism]

As I write this, over 200 people have replied "yes, absolutely", not to mention the 280-ish people who replied "yes" to some condition.

Now, granted that our instructors are also going to be working professions, there's no way they're going to be able to teach that many people, at least not the "full-timers".

I had been guessing that the "full program" class size for this online program would be about 30 or 40 at the greatest. (I mean, I could be totally off there, but it's just hard to imagine how all these industry leaders are going to pull off that much teaching without full-time staff, especially if you count lesson planning and grading assignments!)

So it looks to me like there's going to be some stiff competition to even get into this program.

Which is probably for the best, at least from my standpoint. If I go this route, I want this to be a mostly advanced level program, and being surrounded by (and competing with) a group of people with a good amount of initial skill would be the best way to do that.

I do wonder what the ratio of applicants to acceptees will be... 5 to 1? 10 to 1? I'll make sure work hard this year at getting a good entry portfolio, regardless!

[Harkins]

Didn't really read any posts but just my 2c.

I don't really care if the bulk of my studies are from online or books/dvds, but I think that at least an in-person portfolio review or end of class review would be great. It would be ideal to have a course or two that run simultaneously on site, and I don't care about the living situation, as long as I can interact with instructors and students.

Incoming ridiculous analogy: It's like poker. Yeah online poker is pretty much the same thing, but being in the poker room at a casino with real folks, cards in hand, and a change of scenery makes ALL the difference. The reason why I don't mind some classes being online is because if they are with top industry folks its like playing online poker with Doyle Brunson, Phil Ivey, etc... - but still there's something about being there in person for the experience that is very hard to replicate with online stuff. I think it at least needs to play a small role even if it's just a 2 or 3 week semester with a few classes on site.

Money is unfortunately the #1 issue, FA & scholarships would be nice.

[CoLoRBlinD]

I'm not actually an art student but I found this really interesting. I assume you're targeting this at people who already have the tools, assets, time, and training--if not the skill--to compete for the scholarships. The financial aid also sounds really nice, given the apocryphal starving artist.

If you mean this to replace another form of art education, a degree is a must. You do give your students the opportunity to become known through your "famous European city" gallery, but those who don't immediately shine would want the guarantee of a degree, as well as the record of having gotten it from something attached to such a great fucking community of professionals.

The on-site component is nothing but a plus.

I think, however, this won't replace primary art education, but serve as a supplement or something really ambitious artists graduate into. I'm 17 years old, and I can baldly state that even with the financial aid, I will not be able to use your program to my benefit in a way that will exceed traditional education--if I'm a new art student. For all the old hands and semi-professionals, what you're creating, educationally, is a great thing.

[GriNGo]

Online education is the key to the future education as illustrated by MIT putting all their class information online FOR FREE (http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/courses/courses/index.htm).

I think this is misleading. MIT is technical, pure science. Basically, just read read read & memorize. Art instruction & technique is a whole different thing altogether. Face to face contact is a must.

Now if MB wants to teach an ART History course, then I would say online is the way to go. But for the rest, no.

[EricElwell]

Jason,

I am currently attending Academy of Art (in san francisco) online, and though I think I have somewhat of an uncommon situation, it may be something to consider.

Working for Sikorsky places me under the umbrella of United Technologies Corporation, which offers an excellent 100% paid tuition program. This is contigent on the grades I maintain, the school being Regionally Accredited, and a degree bearing class (though, FINISHING the degree program is not required, just class by class). I know that many other companies offer similar programs, just UTC alone with it's subsidiaries covers an incredible amount of employees, many of whom take atvantage of the program.

All that being said, the degree is the catcher. Not because it's a golden ticket, but because it's the contigency upon which an employer reimburses tuition.

As far as the program, from the little you have described it as, it sounds great. Especially workshop tuition with travel and lodging included in the tuition. This simplifies the process significantly and provides a much more accessible opportunity for online students to attend key live classes.

The industry exposure also sounds great, but the advertisement as instant fame is absurd. I'd also be interested in having the 30% comment quantified. What particularly is taught that the majority of private schools do not teach? I am sure that many art schools leave graduates ill-prepared for the industry, but thus far I have been impressed with my school's material and instructors.

My biggest frustration with my school is their ineptitude in the administrative department. If I am paying $2k per class, why have I found substantial financial and degree related discrepancies every semester? (one administrative error which actually had me blocked from my classes) I say this, because despite the great instructors and course material, the mismanagement of finances and degree bearing information has me looking at other options; and I would hate to see an excellent program like the one you are suggesting hit the same snags and lose interest because it simply did not support the students logistically.

[Studio Colrouphobia]

One of the benefitials of MB having a cheaper art-class could be doing work for the industry that the students could do.
I have no idea how this works with the Atelier right now, and of course it would be completely dependant on the level of skill the students had, but part of the "cut in tuition-costs" could be covered by having the Students do work for MB/CA/school.

As an example-
company A wishes to get conceptuals for characters of game X they are proposing.
They also wish to get pitch-illustrations for named game X.

As part of the later part of the education (such as finals, and/or final year project) the students does this job for Company A.
MB/CA/School get cash from Company A and the Tuition could get pinned down somewhat...


It would still not solve my own financial problem but these sort of things could be worth trying out as an option Jason.

[zenichi]

I think this is misleading. MIT is technical, pure science. Basically, just read read read & memorize. Art instruction & technique is a whole different thing altogether. Face to face contact is a must.

Now if MB wants to teach an ART History course, then I would say online is the way to go. But for the rest, no.

sorry mate, MIT is definitely not read read & memorize. even engineering graduates are heading management post and taking up entrepreneurial endeavor and have better business sense than a lot of social science and arts graduates including MBA courses.

same course offered by different institution could vary tremendously, depends a lot on the people who are running the course. i was an architecture student in uk for 8 years, had a german course mate who had been trained in the same degree in germany but under apprenticeship and when she join in the programme, she had to start from scratch (year 1), no credit transfer cos her pass training was considered an entirely different vocation!!

and when i applied for post-graduate in the US (that's supposedly very different from the uk programmes), harvard's graduate school of design recognized half of their master's taught course's credit being covered by my second bachelor degree (and strong recommendation letter from my dean helps too). so the moral of the story is that, there's no fix rule on what course should take what form of training or education model, granted, different teaching methods or teacher will yield different results but most of what people are getting from their degree or certificate/ diplomas depend a lot on what the individual student wants (weather consciously or not)!

[Disa]

As dope as it sounds ... I still voted no on account of not enough face-to-face interaction. For me, interaction with my teachers and fellow students is a big reason to go to school. Also, having an actual physical place to come every day, is important to me.
Furthermore ... universities are free of charge where I live, so it can't really compete in that respect either.

I mean, it sounds like a dream. But ... more of a dream than a realistic option at this point.

[Markane]

Yes please. We need more educational options that are designed specifically for actually preparing us in the best way possible to reach our potential. Too many systems and schools fall short.

[Pierce9]

I just wanted some clarification on the 30% of my education. Yeah they maybe teach me the techniques and provide the information I need to grow, but that other 70 % is me busting my ass to actually learn what I was taught.

So if you're going to give me a full 1:1 education to money your instructors are going to assign work for me to do that I should be doing for myself.

I'm all for it, I wouldn't get in with the skills I have now, but down the line I would love to, 10-12,000 per year would be rad, and if you were going to throw in a workshop that would be killer.

A degree is just a fancy piece of paper.

For financial aid as long as you're able to accept CalGrants, BOG waivers or the Stanford Loans I'd be down.

[Jason Manley]

MIT is a multi-billion dollar institution. Putting up their classes for free is great. For those that think we should do that, please forward me a check for six billion dollars and we can put out all education we do for free from now until the year 2256.

That being said, We are currently planning the largest scholarship program of any art school out there. It is my hope anyway...will see how it goes as time goes on...but those who are of the highest skill and biggest need should have a way. Merit is key. So are life circumstances.

Best,


Jason



Jason

[Jason Manley]

Yes, I was in SF. Yes that was me. And that "dood" is one of the leading facebook and social game developers on earth. :)

Anyway...carry on. Please.

We will have some more info soon. For now this discussion has been really enlightening and we will be sure to address questions when we do the full roll out of the program. Much of the issues being raised are already solved. :) Like when people said I couldn't stop the piracy on ca and told them it was solved. That's done. Now this is being solved. Looking forward to seeing what the future brings.


Jason

[cl0aked]

Do you plan on doing smaller courses? Imaginism Studios online school, Schoolism.com, does 9 weeks courses, each week with one assignment and after each assignment, the teacher draws or paints on top of the work done, explaining to the students where they went wrong and where they went right.

[Serpian]

Yes, please

[mako588]

After going to one of the colleges listed in that private schools sentence for going on four years, I have to say, things like this and Animation Mentor look like better and better ideas in hindsight. Not that I don't feel like going to a traditional school is a bad idea. You are getting that big "I went to ______" sticker to put on your resume. And the social aspect of going to college is something I believe to be incredibly important, especially if you're straight out of high school. But for someone who can't get enough financial aid to go to a private school, or just doesn't feel like being up to $160,000 in debt when they graduate, this sounds like a godsend.

[lady nerevar]

instead of an art school? no. ive learned more in my first three weeks than i have in three years of my life, and i dont think that anything can really substitute an in person experience. its not just about what youre being taught (and, as ive said, ive learned a lot) but its also about the interaction between people, seeing what others are doing in real time and learning from it. i *love* being on campus and talking to people because everyone has a completely different perspective but is absolutely devoted to what they are doing. part of it is that i do want a little piece of paper that says "hey, this chick here has a degree from an art school"

in addition to art school? yes. i dont think you can ever finish learning, and im sure that i would learn things here that i would not learn in school. the internet thing is iffy though, i really would need more info about how its run before i commit to anything.

if i had voted (which i did not) i would vote "no. i prefer to get '30%' of the education at 'full' price" however, i would seriously consider taking it in addition to school - especially if it had real classes during the summer, gave me a real degree, and offered scholarships/financial aid.

[edit] im at MICA btw. so far i have had none of the problems traditionally associated with art schools (preference in style, etc.)

[LoftyNz]

the options and the chance to work with and be taught by some of the best is probably something that no student can not want or it least not dream of having. my only query is im currently studying and i think that the most beneficial part of being on a campus is that interaction with other peers studying the same etc, to compete with an share ideas, not that this isnt possible online, but you could easily become trapped in your house working online and failing to make a social life, which as far as im learning is big part of getting jobs, as the saying goes "its not what you know, but who you know" the international oppertunities this would open up would be immense but would be no good if you couldnt actually socialise or talk to clients etc. video classrooms would be interesting.

i think really its a great idea to help the growth of artists across the world, my only concern is the human interaction part, i think it is needed at least to some point.

[PsychotropicAngel]

Wow, I was looking for something like this when I was looking for schools lol. Now, I'm working toward my art degree over at a community college here in town so that I can transfer over to UT in the next year or so. Although if you guys can pull it off, then go for it! :D The only drawback, as the person before me mentioned, would be the lack of human interaction that is common with online schooling.

[kgfz]

I've had this account for years and regularly read the conceptart.org newsletter/emails but never post here or anything... this place looks really nice though, I think I'll hang around here more often.

On topic, I'm a painting student at a private atelier in Mexico. I think this is the best option for me at the moment. I chose to not go to art school because, at least here, art schools don't really teach figurative painting or composition. Instead they write essays about Warhol and discuss hermeneutics. And at my atelier I'm learning exactly what I want to learn, realism with an impressionist palette (think Sorolla, Zorn, Sargent and the like). And I feel I really need to learn from my teacher as much as possible, he's old and will probably stop teaching soon. And he was a student of a student of Sorolla.

But if I could complement my education taking courses online and go on a painting trip for a month, for a reasonable price or with the help of an scholarship then yes I'd be all over this. Especially if we're talking about an entire month of painting all day every day with a teacher behind my back saying "you're wrong do it again!" every 20 minutes.

I don't personally care at all about the degree, but it might be necessary due to paperwork or something. I don't know. I have a friend doing a similar thing in London, she went to study for a month, and I dont think she had any trouble doing paperwork (they dont offer any kind of degree either). But I'd need to ask her.

[joanmarkust]

Offcourse yeah!!

[ManaBurn]

Being able to use FAFSA would be the only factor. That would really effect the decision as far as I'd be concerned.

[The Crazy Dude SRD]

I'm sorry, but I couldn't find the "FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!" button so I went with the 'yes, Absolutely'

Honestly I wouldn't be able to afford it as soon as it probably will be coming around but I would be definately hunting for every (legal) opportunity to getting some savings up for this, perhaps take out a loan or something. And of course working my ass off in my free time to perhaps earn my way otherwise. I'd really like to see what kind of class setup (mainly the subject matter and synopsis) there would be and possible instructor lists really... But I'm gonna have to be patient about it.

I'm gonna have to be serious though, I'm running out of chair's edge to sit on.

[Jushra]

If you could attend an online program with direct access to the top professionals from a variety of fields (depending on the area of focus...Fine Art, Animation, Concept Art, Illustration etc...), with each class taught by the very best in that area of expertise and it included opportunities for jobs, ability to expose your work to the top companies, galleries, art directors and the like...as well as had financial aid. If it was half the cost of a private art school like Ringling or Art Center or SCAD, would you do it?

Online access to such a course would be great, but the f2f mentoring is worth so much more. There is a different feeling that comes across when you are talking directly to a mentor/instructor than through vchat, email, or IM. Regarding tuition: I am currently in debt with student loans from my time at the Art Institute of Pittsburgh. I do not feel that my education was worth the money spent, primarily because the instructors were (at the time) not familiar with the state of the video game and entertainment industry. We were taught programs, which artists can do on their own time.

Would the degree matter to you if you could get financial aid without it?

I have a degree and it looks nice. A portfolio should look nicer.

Would the degree matter if you had considerable scholarships to compete for?

The competition is ultimately for a job, not a scholarship.

If that program online had a month long, real world component, where you had the additional option to study during the summers with the same caliber of instructors in person, would that sway you?

I’d rather study full time with such instructors.

Would it having access to a real, world class, art gallery in a major European city sway you?

Sounds great.

Would having exclusive real world workshops like this http://afriendofyours.com/dallas_2_web.mov also help sway you if your workshop tuition, flight, and hotel was included in the total tuition price each year?

Reverie was life changing for me. Every time I start to lose focus, even in the slightest bit, I remember what I felt at that workshop and I drive on. If it were included, I’d be on it.

Would having direct access to major companies and art directors help sway you?

For sure.

What if you were a top student and made industry famous overnight when you began your career? Would that help sway you?

Does that happen? The thought of that is appealing. I have a lot more leveling up to do before I can realistically think about that.

[Chance.]

Yes,

+financial aid, double yes

+scholarship opportunities, when does it start?

--------------

I'm in the middle of my first semester of art school at one of the most highly ranked schools in the country and I am beginning to believe that there is a better way for me (personally) to pursue my art.

I agree that the personal contact element of learning is incredibly important, so I am excited about the idea of face-to-face workshops as part of the program.

Jason, we patiently (not) await more info!

[newbies13]

My biggest concern over the whole thing would just be what you wind up getting for your money. As it is now, with a traditional school you get a degree, but even then you are not assured any sort of job based on that.

A "normal" school costs a lot every year, and at least gives you the chance to continue a formal education. Paying half of that without a degree to build on later seems expensive. Which really only leaves the direct access to the top dogs, you normally wouldn't have, which leads me to my next point.

Lets assume the classes are successful. How much direct exposure are you actually going to be able to provide, when hundreds of other people are taking the same course, looking for the same exposure?

Like I said, the real power of formal school is that you get a piece of paper that you can build on. Not that it teaches you everything you will ever need to know about art. And without a degree to back it up, I just can't see justifying even half the price. Since this would just be a side note on your resume.

[Jason Manley]

First off, I want to address this comment as it is based on a perspective that has little to do with success in the world of art...almost nothing to do with succcess in the world of art.

The degree means nothing in all but a few instances, and that does not say that we are not going to seek accreditation because we are right now since some want that, however you could have a degree from each of Harvard, MIT, Princeton, and Yale and still have a portfolio full of uneducated work. Thus, failure. No art career. The document that you hang on a wall to impress gramma or your parents is going to get you very little, if anything in this field.

Second, we would never put out any program that does not get results. The whole point here is to have a program that yields better results, faster, with higher quality instructors, and far more successful students.

Given the success of our small concept art atelier already (there is not a better place to learn digital painting anywhere), I think once you all hear what we are doing you will feel like any such concerns are addressed. We are changing the way art is taught for the better and creating opportunity to learn where there was less. If we did not believe we could do that, we would not be doing it.

Actions speak louder than words right? Well in the case of art school, the portfolio of the students speaks louder than anything else. The degree doesn't mean a thing to 99.99 percent of the people working and dealing with artists or hiring them. It is all about the results.

More info to come. Plz discuss.



Jason

My biggest concern over the whole thing would just be what you wind up getting for your money. As it is now, with a traditional school you get a degree, but even then you are not assured any sort of job based on that.

A "normal" school costs a lot every year, and at least gives you the chance to continue a formal education. Paying half of that without a degree to build on later seems expensive. Which really only leaves the direct access to the top dogs, you normally wouldn't have, which leads me to my next point.

Lets assume the classes are successful. How much direct exposure are you actually going to be able to provide, when hundreds of other people are taking the same course, looking for the same exposure?

Like I said, the real power of formal school is that you get a piece of paper that you can build on. Not that it teaches you everything you will ever need to know about art. And without a degree to back it up, I just can't see justifying even half the price. Since this would just be a side note on your resume.

[ROCKNROLLA]

Hopefully the information comes quickly because I am currently planning my life around a school that doesn't even exist yet. :)

[Jason Manley]

1. We are going to have a very considerable scholarship program. Perhaps one of the largest of any school in the field. We are going to have full ride, half, and partial tuition scholarships based on MERIT.

2. There are multiple real world components being designed around the entire program. This program is being designed by the best of the best. People I idolized when I was learning art, as well as our esteemed peers in the professional world.

3. It will be a go at your own pace program. You will have to pass very intensive criteria to move forward. We are not going to be churning out students who do not get the information. If you don't get the information, you stay where you are until you do. Some students will graduate early. Others later.

4. We are including options for transfer students who qualify by portfolio. We do not care if someone got an A from their design class if their portfolio does not show that they know the information in the program. As much as 25 percent of the program can be bypassed if the students already know the info being presented in the first year.

5. Everyone will get ample time with the instructors. This is not a farm for artists to shell out cash and not get the info they need to succeed. This is the real deal.

6. We do this because we believe that the art programs around the world are lacking entirely. I can't even hire 99 percent of the instructors teaching the stuff that we do here at MB, from those universities. As the painter Ives Gammel once said, "A teacher can only teach up to the point of their own failure as an artist". We take that line of thought to heart. Only instructors with mastery of a given area of expertise will be teaching those courses.

7. As liberal Arts and traditional education are respected here, we will have a list of courses that can be taken locally at the community college level (no sense in taking business math/accounting, or english 101 at an expensive art school or university). For those wanting to grow in areas outside of art, we will have plenty of things for you to pursue outside the program as well. There will be required reading (literature) and personal studies as we encourage students to not rely just on us for information. The world is at your fingertips. We will be pointing directions and helping in all areas.

8. The starting programs are Foundations, Entertainment Design, Representational Painting (traditional and digital), and Illustration. Our foundations program will be the most comprehensive foundations program out there. Once you have such literacy, you can go any direction you choose, whether that be Fine Art, Illustration, Film, Games, Toys, Comics, or any other direction. We believe in creating independent minds, and giving the tools to artists so they can develop their own perspectives, their own visions, and be successful in the field of their choice.


So thats some info...plz discuss.



Jason

[Jason Manley]

Hopefully the information comes quickly because I am currently planning my life around a school that doesn't even exist yet. :)

Hang in there. I expect we will begin the program in early summer with a host of things happening before that to prep the students who will be attending.

[Jason Manley]

I think this is misleading. MIT is technical, pure science. Basically, just read read read & memorize. Art instruction & technique is a whole different thing altogether. Face to face contact is a must.

Now if MB wants to teach an ART History course, then I would say online is the way to go. But for the rest, no.


Patience young jedi. I know it is tough to afford education stuff where you live, but you have a chance to have a full ride if you prepare an awesome portfolio. Face to face is important and we have designed the program to help with that matter. I did six years of art school. I am a person who learns by having an instructor show me things...not just by listening. I know many others are the same.

[ROCKNROLLA]

Wow, that was fast!! Thanks Jason. Have you guys put any thought into the GI BILL?

[rusalka]

Very cool, sounds like a lot of thought and planning has gone into this! Now if only I was a young college student again.

My question would be what are the possibilities and options for those of us with full time jobs who would like to improve our skills.

[Jason Manley]

Very cool, sounds like a lot of thought and planning has gone into this! Now if only I was a young college student again.

My question would be what are the possibilities and options for those of us with full time jobs who would like to improve our skills.

There will be options for you as well. :)

The professionals have to have access to continuing education. We have your back. I want to attend some too and I work here. :)

[Sebastard]

1. We are going to have a very considerable scholarship program. Perhaps one of the largest of any school in the field. We are going to have full ride, half, and partial tuition scholarships based on MERIT.

2. There are multiple real world components being designed around the entire program. This program is being designed by the best of the best. People I idolized when I was learning art, as well as our esteemed peers in the professional world.

3. It will be a go at your own pace program. You will have to pass very intensive criteria to move forward. We are not going to be churning out students who do not get the information. If you don't get the information, you stay where you are until you do. Some students will graduate early. Others later.

Jason

Salivates

That's the kind of encouragement that'll keep me drawing 23 hours a day ^^.

My own educational plans are complicated. I draw 95% of my waking hours and will continue to do so until i've learned the basics, then maybe scale the pace down 1-2%. I'm probably going to apply to a wide variety of swedish art schools the coming (spring) semester as well as summer if i don't get in on the first get-go. The quality of my 50-day art isn't exactly jaw-dropping so i must be pragmatic and realistic as to my chances compared to high-school finishers and other people who've studied and practiced for years on end.

But regardless if i was studying at LTU/KF/UH or just sitting here drawing this kind of program would be interesting to me. If necessary and if my artistic skill was up to it, i'd just stop sleeping to squeeze it in between regular lecture hours.

Anyway, great info and keep it coming. Eager to learn more about it :).

[Zirngibism]

Thanks so much for giving us some more info!

1. We are going to have a very considerable scholarship program. Perhaps one of the largest of any school in the field. We are going to have full ride, half, and partial tuition scholarships based on MERIT.

What if you don't qualify for aid from FAFSA, but you have a great portfolio? Or vice versa?
Just wondering-- glad to hear you're working on it.

2. There are multiple real world components being designed around the entire program. This program is being designed by the best of the best. People I idolized when I was learning art, as well as our esteemed peers in the professional world.

Something I do wonder about all the esteemed peers in the professional world teaching this is-- how much time are they dedicating to it? I'm assuming we'll have a great variety of teachers dedicating smaller amounts of time, as opposed to one teacher dedicating a whole bunch of time in traditional school...

3. It will be a go at your own pace program. You will have to pass very intensive criteria to move forward. We are not going to be churning out students who do not get the information. If you don't get the information, you stay where you are until you do. Some students will graduate early. Others later.

Interesting concept-- I think I like this.

Tell me though, what is the "average" intended duration of this program? I had sort of assumed 2 years, but more? less?

4. We are including options for transfer students who qualify by portfolio. We do not care if someone got an A from their design class if their portfolio does not show that they know the information in the program. As much as 25 percent of the program can be bypassed if the students already know the info being presented in the first year.

YES! While I'm not against the basics, I was afraid I might have to take up a bunch of time with them again when I could be pushing myself into more advanced topics. That's one of my problems with Art Center... they're really bad about letting people transfer, and the idea of spending the first year making boxes out of cardboard all over again makes me cringe...

5. Everyone will get ample time with the instructors. This is not a farm for artists to shell out cash and not get the info they need to succeed. This is the real deal.

Perhaps a required purchase for every student should be a quality webcam? Something high-res enough for them to hold up work and point to stuff for a real-time, more "hands-on" critique? Maybe each student can get a brief 1-on-1 webcam session for each class...

6. We do this because we believe that the art programs around the world are lacking entirely. I can't even hire 99 percent of the instructors teaching the stuff that we do here at MB, from those universities. As the painter Ives Gammel once said, "A teacher can only teach up to the point of their own failure as an artist". We take that line of thought to heart. Only instructors with mastery of a given area of expertise will be teaching those courses.

Sounds good-- but if they are indeed willing to teach, why haven't they been snapped up by other schools? Hmm, I guess that's probably an obvious question-- the fact that this is online means they don't have to go out of their ways as much as they might if they were a part-time teacher at a university or something. Or maybe this program would pay them more (which I would not complain about because they could be making art but they're teaching instead, as opposed to just teaching because they need to.)

I guess I'm commenting on this because it seems like one of those too-good-to-be-true things... All these better-than-99% teachers. I mean, I guess if I go through with this I'll judge it myself... Maybe I just have a hard time seeing the incentive to teach and raise up people who would be competing with them in the not-so-distant future. I mean, yes I hear that teaching is rewarding and that the teacher can often learn from the students, but...

Oh whatever, I don't even know where I'm going with this anymore... :shrug:

7. As liberal Arts and traditional education are respected here, we will have a list of courses that can be taken locally at the community college level (no sense in taking business math/accounting, or english 101 at an expensive art school or university). For those wanting to grow in areas outside of art, we will have plenty of things for you to pursue outside the program as well. There will be required reading (literature) and personal studies as we encourage students to not rely just on us for information. The world is at your fingertips. We will be pointing directions and helping in all areas.

I'm going to be getting all that stuff out of the way this summer, hopefully. Makes total sense! :-)

8. The starting programs are Foundations, Entertainment Design, Representational Painting (traditional and digital), and Illustration. Our foundations program will be the most comprehensive foundations program out there. Once you have such literacy, you can go any direction you choose, whether that be Fine Art, Illustration, Film, Games, Toys, Comics, or any other direction. We believe in creating independent minds, and giving the tools to artists so they can develop their own perspectives, their own visions, and be successful in the field of their choice.

So thats some info...plz discuss.



Jason





Mmkay, now for some more questions/comments of my own (sorry, I'm just gonna keep thinking up new ones!): ;)

1. Is there going to be some kind of test run for this program? I ask because, from some experience, there is always going to be stuff that wasn't foreseen in the planning. Not that it's anybody's fault, it's just technical issues, and especially scheduling problems are bound to come up with the first "guinea pig" class.

2. So, if everyone's going at different paces, does that mean that class size will be arbitrary? Do you have any idea of the average amount of students per class will be? How about the entire student body? I had been kind of hoping for small-ish classes, but probably everyone else does, and I know you guys need to break even ;-). But anyway, a ballpark estimate of class size would be appreciated!

3. On specialization: How customizable will our curriculum be? While I realize we have wiggle-room in how quickly we complete the program, will we be able to also choose classes to take that follow our own focus?

For example, I really love environments, and object design. Later in the program, could I opt for more study in these areas, as opposed to something like characters, etc...?


4. Will this be a semester-based program? Season-based? If you're starting in the summer, I'm guessing not traditional semester...

If you do start in the summer, please make it late enough that most of us will be through with their current school! I'd really really hate to have to start this up while also dealing with finals week at CCAD, and I'm sure others in my position would feel the same!

5. Kind of a random and relatively-unimportant question, but would this school be registered with the Society of Illustrators student show? I don't know how that works exactly, but I know you have to enter through your school, so I was hoping that would be set up. Good promotion for us and you :)




Again, thanks for keeping us informed and answering some of our questions. I really appreciate it!

[Mr Man]

Hmm, this sounds promising especially as my current education is coming to a close.
Perhaps if I attended the course in conjunction with an internship at a games studio then things could get quite exciting!

I presume this is going to be an international program right? How will you tackle the time differences? Lecturers have got to sleep at some point, or are you just going to stash up on the coffee hehe.

I'm keeping my eye on this one, good luck with the plans Jason :)

Rich

[Chance.]

This is obviously going to be a highly competitive program. I don't know how many students you will be accepting at one time, but I imagine that more will be applying than you have space for.
What are your admission portfolio requirements going to be? (such as number of pieces, subject matter and media, etc) or are we expected to pull together a portfolio on our own? What I am asking I suppose, is, what kind of portfolio is going to be most attractive when it comes time to submit an application. (some of us would like to get started working on this now.)

I'm incredibly excited about this, Jason! Long have I been disillusioned with the idea of college, especially for art. This is the opportunity and style of education which I would thrive in. I plan to do whatever it takes to be a part of this incredible vision of yours.

[Pochifux]

This was a very clever "quizvertizment".... hey, it worked on me. It only gets me a little peeved because I already discovered 1st hand what a croc art school truly is...
But guess what? I'm invited to be a guest-speaker at the AP art class of my former high school, and I was questioning whether I should tell all those budding young artists to save their $ and learn online from CA and others but this clenches it - I'm gonna stem the tide and send them your way instead. No need to reward me with a wicked phat scholarship or anything :geekg: What goes around comes around - I've learned more useful info since I joined CA than I did after 6 years of "trying to find my niche" at [should I mention the art school's name here? "no bad press" right Jason ;) ? Meh, it was SCAD, I'm just being honest]
One thing that I feel should be mentioned: the only invaluable thing about art school that I feel cannot be substituted online is the importance of life-drawing classes and access to open model sessions. Of course, there are always ways to compensate for a lack thereof - but asking your girlfriend to pose for you and learning about techniques online is not the same as having a professional model and one-on-one assistance from a professor - to SCAD's credit, the relatively small size of the drawing classes did allow for more one-on-one personalized feedback.
Just some food for thought:yum:

:yayca:

[Pochifux]

Ooooh, I gotta add this: Deaf people, and hard of hearing people: they get the shaft as far as art education goes, they really do, I know a few. Online classes like these would be perfect for deaf art students. Not having to rely on an interpreter who doesn't understand art terms would be key, as would having a professor who doesn't assume that deaf = retarded and who therefore doesn't let them slip by based on lowered expectations. If this program was able to cater to the deaf and hard of hearing, it would become popular quickly within the deaf community, as they are a tightly knit bunch - they are all over AIM, twitter, and other social networks... so news travels fast within that culture and let me tell you: if you look at what passes for "art education" at the Deaf university... well, if you thought SCAD and Ringling were half-assed...
Anyway, just thought I'd throw that in for my H.H.H. (hard of hearing homies :P)

[Jason Manley]

I will wait to answer the other questions as I need to get more info solidified before going into certain things deeper. Regarding the deaf or hard of hearing, yes that is something we are keenly aware of. It will take time but we are slowly subtitling all the videos in multiple languages, thanks to a very kind volunteer group here on CA who are doing it for exactly that purpose. As time goes on and finances allow we will eventually have the entire program handled so that people are not left out due to circumstances or culture.

The financial aid program will be through the school, as will the scholarships. There will be no need to have the degree in place prior to allowing for financial assistance.

As far as why professionals will not teach at the big schools, well that is simple. The private art schools are profit driven, and are keeping the majority of the money for land grabs, and expansion. They do so by underpaying the faculty. The highest paid teacher in the university system makes less than an average film industry artist. Sad considering the students are only at the school because of the professors and knowledge they have. The system is broken and we are fixing it. Mark my words. :)

[Harkins]

This is good.

[hala]

Don't think I'll be able to attend because of my circumstances, but I'm really happy to see someone finally taking the strides to fix and change the art education system. It's about damn time.
Go Jason (and crew) go!!!

[Serpian]

I so want to be part of this! The school I'm in right now doesn't really teach, they just tell us to draw something... And give little to no critique. However, in my country university education is free*, so I don't really know how much a normal art school tuition usually is. Is there any estimate on pricing for this school for the moment?

*well, there are no tuition fees, but you have to pay for a lot of other things... Still not as much as in America though.

[Taven]

First off, I want to address this comment as it is based on a perspective that has little to do with success in the world of art...almost nothing to do with succcess in the world of art.

The degree means nothing in all but a few instances, and that does not say that we are not going to seek accreditation because we are right now since some want that [etc]

I think that some sort of degree attached would be nice. No, it may not ulitmately impact your sucess/failure in your chosen carrear, but I know that my parents (who are supplying a good portion of college cost) would be much more keen on something that had "proof" of validity. I'm not saying that I think the program would be bad, I think it would be amazing and far better then some art school options, but convincing relaitives of that can be a challange.

There is also the idea that if you get a scholarship, then you might not need the parental support money-wise, but it would still be nice to be able to "keep the family peace" with some sort of "official" accredditation.

1. We are going to have a very considerable scholarship program. Perhaps one of the largest of any school in the field. We are going to have full ride, half, and partial tuition scholarships based on MERIT.

I like the idea of large scholarships! I also like the idea that skill and talent is a major factor. However, I'm also curious about the levels of talent. What do I mean? Well, I imagine that this is going to be a very competitive process. If you've already gone to art school, or had formal training you might have a better skill level then someone equally as talented who hasn't gotten the oppertunity to be formally taught. In effect, what might happen is only taking the well schooled and best, and making them better, instead of taking those with as much talent, but less current skill level, and making them better.

I hope that makes sense. As I said, I'm for skill and talent being a factor. However, I also want it to be a playing field so that people with maybe less oppertunity previously, but still as much talent, can participate. For example, someone fresh out of highschool might have the same talent as someone who completed an undergraduate program at an art university, but due to lack of training, won't have the skill. Is there any plan for catagories for merit scholarships to help balance this out? For example, x scholarships could go to people with x amount of training, or x years of age.

2. There are multiple real world components being designed around the entire program. This program is being designed by the best of the best. People I idolized when I was learning art, as well as our esteemed peers in the professional world.

I may have missed the final verdict on this, but was there any conclusion on weather or not students and instructors would get the chance to meet face-to-face during the course of the program?

3. It will be a go at your own pace program. You will have to pass very intensive criteria to move forward. We are not going to be churning out students who do not get the information. If you don't get the information, you stay where you are until you do. Some students will graduate early. Others later.

Is tuition time-based or progress based? For example, does the student who graduated early pay less because it took less time for them to learn x amount of material then a student who graduates later, or do both students pay the same cost because they both learned the same material?

5. Everyone will get ample time with the instructors. This is not a farm for artists to shell out cash and not get the info they need to succeed. This is the real deal.

What types of communication will there be between students and instructors? Will it be mostly email, or done via a form style like Conceptart, or something with more instant communication, such as a chat? (Or more then one of the above)


I think that's all the questions I have for now. Awesome idea, I can't wait to see the results on all of this.

[Maxine Schacker]

This is an admirable project. Good luck with it, Jason.

[drd]

All of my admiration is shining upon you Jason

bask in the warmth of my gratitude

Even though I doubt I would be able to participate; my parents are strict on the fact that I get a degree, even if one isn't really necessary.

[Eccentric]

This sounds very interesting. I've still got 3 years of high school, so I've got lots of time to see how this program goes. :D

[cesmls]

ALL teachers at public schools, day care through graduate, universities, state colleges, are underpaid. It isn't only art-related teachers. ALL teachers.

[Arish]

Jason - this program sounds really promising! However I have the same problem as Pochifux - my hearing loss would make it hard to take an online course unless the material was subtitled or had a transcript provided. So I was happy to hear you're working on that, I'd hate to be left out. :)

(Which reminds me, I was wondering - do the Massive Black DVD downloads have subtitles? I was interested in downloading them but didn't want to do so if I couldn't understand them...)

As for whether I'd take the program - I voted "yes if I could win the scholarship" but what I'd really be interested in is a part-time / evening version, which you mentioned might become a possibility. I work and attend school right now and I know this course is a great opportunity, but at the same time I don't want to quit my other responsibilities halfway.

I'm very excited to see how this develops - thanks and good luck!! :)

[ROCKNROLLA]

I will say something that worries me about online schooling is not having any face time with instructors (as many of you have already stated). I have been to a couple of different art schools (none worth mentioning) and that was main reason I left each school. I really need to learn the techniques of digital painting and I am not sure I would be able to do this online. Especially if there is any sort of traditional painting involved :) This is my one and only concern about this program. That being said, I know Jason cares a lot about the up and coming art community and he has probably already thought of a solution to this.

[Jason Manley]

There is a very dedicated team led by CA member Tonic who is handling this for those who are hard of hearing. They are also doing multiple languages. It is all volunteer so is taking time but yes, having subtitles is key as we have to have tools for those who are hard of hearing for sure. We are working on it. Will announce once those are coming to being finished.


jason

Jason - this program sounds really promising! However I have the same problem as Pochifux - my hearing loss would make it hard to take an online course unless the material was subtitled or had a transcript provided. So I was happy to hear you're working on that, I'd hate to be left out. :)

(Which reminds me, I was wondering - do the Massive Black DVD downloads have subtitles? I was interested in downloading them but didn't want to do so if I couldn't understand them...)

As for whether I'd take the program - I voted "yes if I could win the scholarship" but what I'd really be interested in is a part-time / evening version, which you mentioned might become a possibility. I work and attend school right now and I know this course is a great opportunity, but at the same time I don't want to quit my other responsibilities halfway.

I'm very excited to see how this develops - thanks and good luck!! :)

[Jason Manley]

About the upcoming program.

Our new school, which we call "The Art Department" is a hybrid of real world and online learning. There are a host of supplemental programs which allow the students to join, in person, with instructors directly and in person, as well as online. As the weeks move forward we will have quite a lot of new information for you and all questions will be answered. This is something we have worked on for years and is finally, nearing go time. Admissions information as well as financial aid and scholarship info will come. Until then, here is some info on the program as a whole.


Foundations

The foundations program has been designed by instructors who have led their field for many years. We are focused with full attention on the fact that not one degree based art school offers a genuinely comprehensive foundations program. When I teach my color theory class at the workshops, for example, I always ask how many have been given all this information in art school. Even when the workshops are 85 percent professionals, the answer is always the same. None. This applies to all areas of the foundations program we have built. This portion of the Art Department education system is fully rounded and deep in the core areas of artistic development. It is currently slated as eight months and will allow transfer into the core focus for those students in the remaining 22 months of our school.

Illustration:

This program is run by a group of faculty who have led this field for decades and are still working today. If illustration is the program of choice, you will not find a better program anywhere. We will have more info as time goes on. There is also some cross over between this program and the Entertainment Design track which is mentioned below. Idea is key. Communication is of the utmost importance. The illustration track is built to apply to a number of different fields and not just print. Once an artist understands things like idea development, composition, process, color and lighting theory, narrative, and communication they can apply those skills to everything from film to games to book covers to fine art and more. This is the real deal.

Entertainment Design:

The fields of video games, movies, comics, toys, graphic novels, television and internet media have opportunities for students who wish to work in the field and for those who wish to create their own worlds for release to the global markets. This track is based on our award winning Next Gen Atelier program and has been refined after these past three years of working and learning there. The entertainment design track is a 50/50 balance between creating from life and imagination. More info on how this program works can be seen on the atelier website www.conceptart.org/school and our strong results are obvious in the school program threads in the finished section here on CA. The goal of this program is simple. Learn to create from imagination at will and apply that to building universes for both major studios and your own intellectual properties.

Fine Art: Representational Drawing and Painting-

Our appreciation for the academic and traditional approach to learning art is clear. This program allows students to focus on learning to draw and paint from life, apply those skills to meaningful ideas, and create museum archival quality works. Students will learn a full variety of media and methods for creating believable traditional and digital works of art. Unlike most traditional atelier programs, we believe in idea development and visual communication which has impact and integrity. This program will be teaching the digital side as well as tools like graphite, dry media, and oil.

All programs will be subjected to courses related to business, art legal, negotiation, promotion, and creating success. Independence for artists is our goal. We will be providing all the tools necessary for this to happen, from art training to career training. Given the success of the high-profile faculty involved, there is little question on whether or not this is able to happen. It will happen. Our workshops and Atelier success speaks for itself. Students are getting jobs at the most important companies, getting their works published, printed, and exposed to millions, and are making it as gallery artists as well as teachers and professionals.

Not to mention we can make an artist industry famous with a push of a button nowadays. :)

More to come!


Jason Manley

[Serpian]

This is AWESOME and I NEED to be a part of it. NEEED. I'm at a place right now when my options seem to be stick with my rubbish school, or teach myself. For me this is a pretty desperate situation, because I can't see myself pursuing anything else than art, but I *can* see myself stuck in one place and never getting really good. This is why I need this! Thank you!

[drd]

About the upcoming program.

Our new school, which we call "The Art Department" is a hybrid of real world and online learning. There are a host of supplemental programs which allow the students to join, in person, with instructors directly and in person, as well as online. As the weeks move forward we will have quite a lot of new information for you and all questions will be answered. This is something we have worked on for years and is finally, nearing go time. Admissions information as well as financial aid and scholarship info will come. Until then, here is some info on the program as a whole.


Foundations

The foundations program has been designed by instructors who have led their field for many years. We are focused with full attention on the fact that not one degree based art school offers a genuinely comprehensive foundations program. When I teach my color theory class at the workshops, for example, I always ask how many have been given all this information in art school. Even when the workshops are 85 percent professionals, the answer is always the same. None. This applies to all areas of the foundations program we have built. This portion of the Art Department education system is fully rounded and deep in the core areas of artistic development. It is currently slated as eight months and will allow transfer into the core focus for those students in the remaining 22 months of our school.

Illustration:

This program is run by a group of faculty who have led this field for decades and are still working today. If illustration is the program of choice, you will not find a better program anywhere. We will have more info as time goes on. There is also some cross over between this program and the Entertainment Design track which is mentioned below. Idea is key. Communication is of the utmost importance. The illustration track is built to apply to a number of different fields and not just print. Once an artist understands things like idea development, composition, process, color and lighting theory, narrative, and communication they can apply those skills to everything from film to games to book covers to fine art and more. This is the real deal.

Entertainment Design:

The fields of video games, movies, comics, toys, graphic novels, television and internet media have opportunities for students who wish to work in the field and for those who wish to create their own worlds for release to the global markets. This track is based on our award winning Next Gen Atelier program and has been refined after these past three years of working and learning there. The entertainment design track is a 50/50 balance between creating from life and imagination. More info on how this program works can be seen on the atelier website www.conceptart.org/school and our strong results are obvious in the school program threads in the finished section here on CA. The goal of this program is simple. Learn to create from imagination at will and apply that to building universes for both major studios and your own intellectual properties.

Fine Art: Representational Drawing and Painting-

Our appreciation for the academic and traditional approach to learning art is clear. This program allows students to focus on learning to draw and paint from life, apply those skills to meaningful ideas, and create museum archival quality works. Students will learn a full variety of media and methods for creating believable traditional and digital works of art. Unlike most traditional atelier programs, we believe in idea development and visual communication which has impact and integrity. This program will be teaching the digital side as well as tools like graphite, dry media, and oil.

All programs will be subjected to courses related to business, art legal, negotiation, promotion, and creating success. Independence for artists is our goal. We will be providing all the tools necessary for this to happen, from art training to career training. Given the success of the high-profile faculty involved, there is little question on whether or not this is able to happen. It will happen. Our workshops and Atelier success speaks for itself. Students are getting jobs at the most important companies, getting their works published, printed, and exposed to millions, and are making it as gallery artists as well as teachers and professionals.

Not to mention we can make an artist industry famous with a push of a button nowadays. :)

More to come!


Jason Manley

Oh dear god.

Ok, my long post was deleted by CA's post system, but I'll try and re-find what I said;

I'm a senior in high school, and at the point at which I'll have to choose the path I take concerning my education: overpriced college like Ringling, inferior college for what I need like SCAD, but costs less, or something like this, the Next Gen Atelier or the Concept Design Academy.

My parents are very concerned about any option that doesn't end up with me getting a degree; I intend to show your posts on the subject in the Reality thread to my mom when she gets home tonight.

Also, would it even be feasible for me to attempt to attend after high school? In general, what level of skill do you see attending? Would it be wiser for me to spend a year on my own, out of school, focusing on my education, going to workshops, using CA downloads or Gnomon DVDs, and teaching myself, getting my skills up to par before I even try to apply?

I guess what I'm asking is if this program, or any other program like the Next Gen Atelier, a good choice for someone thinking of substituting it for college?

Thank you so much for all that you have done, and hats off, of course, to all else involved! I truly believe that you will revolutionize the teaching of art in this industry.

Edit: more questions (sorry...): If there is online and face-to-face, where would the face-to-face be located? Because if it's out in Cali somewhere, then I haven't got a chance at doing this. Would this be accredited? I'm sure info like this will be put out soon, but my mom requested I ask.

I understand her concern that if it doesn't work out for me, I won't have anything to fall back on. Is this a valid concern if I don't get a degree? I wasn't aware that a BFA would be able to get you a job in anything other than the arts.

[ROCKNROLLA]

I am so F-ing excited!! Hopefully I will make the cut!! You guys ROCK!

[Noah Bradley]

Though I'm sort of nearing the end of my time in school (currently a junior in college), I am very, very interested in this. The CA Atelier has been a bit of a pipe dream for me after I graduate, but a more formal program--particularly one with scholarships--is really enticing to me.

Keep up the great work, Jason. It all sounds awesome.

[The-Mentat]

This just sounds too good to be true.. but it IS real!:D Damn I wish something like this was around 1,5 years ago when I had to pick a college to go to. I'm currently doing a game design course, and while I'm learning a lot, it's not making me a better 2d artist (lots of 3d, 3 hours of drawing per week:((. So something like this would be totally awesome once I finish this course.

[Jacob Kobryn]

Jake you have made more connections on conceptart.org already than you will the entire four years of one of the private art schools.

And I've made SO MANY close personal friends on CA... :( I hate to sound pessimistic, but I don't really feel that way. I have made connections, certainly, but the gigantic majority of the those connections are mainly valuable contextually (hard to describe...) and have very, very little to do with anything social. I'm talking about social things, mainly. I mean, you met Andrew and Shawn Barber and whoever else at college, right?

p.s. Sorry for responding so late, but I didn't see your post until now. See you tomorrow. :)

[Jason Manley]

And I've made SO MANY close personal friends on CA... :( I hate to sound pessimistic, but I don't really feel that way. I have made connections, certainly, but the gigantic majority of the those connections are mainly valuable contextually (hard to describe...) and have very, very little to do with anything social. I'm talking about social things, mainly. I mean, you met Andrew and Shawn Barber and whoever else at college, right?

p.s. Sorry for responding so late, but I didn't see your post until now. See you tomorrow. :)

I met more close friends through CA than art school. :) But hey...it is what you make of it. If I was not social in art school I would not have met andrew. If I was not social on CA I would not have met half of Massive Black. :)

[Sebastard]

I think regardless of where in the world you're situated, if you're active, open, have a sketchbook and make yourself "known" in the community, you will make a ton of valuable friends - contacts you might not otherwise have made. Hell, i've only been here little more then a month, i don't have any IM adresses in my profile and i've already made 4 new friends whom i talk to on regular basis, even if it's electronically. I think your pessimism is way out of place but i suppose it depends on what kind of approach you take to people and how you communicate with them. Also, i don't think that in today's internationalized and "electronized" world, the term "social" can be limited to Real-life friends. Sure, it'll play a part at some point, but the best friends i currently have are friends i met online at first in various contexts, then met "outside".

The only problem now is that i'm completely unsure of what i'd like to learn or study. Well, of course i have some idea - the choice is between Ilustration and Entertainment design. I think i want both, and i want both bad :P

Thanks for the update :). Back to practice.

[mattj324]

when can i sign up!

I'm already studying, and if I wish to study further, a program would be much better for me, especially if I have a job at the same time. Personally, I'm more interested in the knowledge I can gain after I have my degree under my belt. So long as it's as rigorous and insightful as any other class, I'd go for it! =D

[Arish]

Jason - thanks for getting back to me, I'm happy to hear that hearing impaired people won't be left out, because your program sounds amazing... I'm really depressed and demoralized with my own career prospects right now and your proposed program sounds like a godsend, if I can get in...

Jake - I also have trouble making friends online, but even if you don't become close personal friends with tonnes of people, just getting your name out there and making connections is a great start... (telling myself this too)

[Praemium]

I'm a junior in HS as of right now, and I'm probably going to end up going to a state college. Something like this would be great if it could supplement my arts education while I'm at a state school.
I hope when you're deciding on merit scholarships you will take in consideration the ones who are fresh out of HS, and those in/out of college. I know a lot of talented HS kids, who just haven't been given a chance to have their skills refined at a college yet. I really hope this will be up and running by the time that I graduate next May.

[Zirngibism]

I've never been to one myself, but the workshops sure look like a great place to meet people and make connections.

If attendance to these were considered part of the curriculum, wouldn't that at least help to fill the gap?

[FallenGodX11]

The school I go to mostly focuses on figurative fine art. I think taking online classes at CA would be perfect.

[FallenGodX11]

Jason, I was wondering if the Concept Art online school would require a rigorous portfolio entrance like the Concept Art Atelier?

[breistift]

I would really really love to be in this program! Right now I'm studying abroad because I don't think I could become a concept artist back home. This would let me move back to where I want to be and still get the education I need! I'm VERY interested!
I have not read the whole thread yet but do you know when this is going to start? Edit: ok, just saw that it's summer.

[Jason Manley]

Thanks all. More info to come.

Jason, I was wondering if the Concept Art online school would require a rigorous portfolio entrance like the Concept Art Atelier?

No but it will require one to get out of it :) No certificates will be issued unless your professional reviewers are giving the thumbs up. It will be an at your pace program. It is not do an assignment, learn half the info, and graduate the class kind of a deal. Those that finish with approved reviews will be required to truly understand what is being taught. No one left behind...unless they fall behind and wander off on their own. :)

At least that is how I see it...


Jason

[citrusfrukt]

Wow, this whole idea simply sounds too good to be true. I would do anything, ANYHTING , to join.

[Wanna]

Looks good, I've been following this thread for quite a while now.
Jason, when you say it is a program where everyone can follow at his own pace, does it means that, for instance, person A can finish it in 2 years, whereas person B can finish it in 5? Because a "at your own pace" program sounds cool (not to disadvantage both skilled and beginners), but hard to put in place.

[Zirngibism]

Thanks all. More info to come.



No but it will require one to get out of it :) No certificates will be issued unless your professional reviewers are giving the thumbs up. It will be an at your pace program. It is not do an assignment, learn half the info, and graduate the class kind of a deal. Those that finish with approved reviews will be required to truly understand what is being taught. No one left behind...unless they fall behind and wander off on their own. :)

At least that is how I see it...


Jason


Indeed, that sounds good at least in principle.

I just hope we will still have individual assignments with specific duedates. If we didn't, wouldn't it be hard to have periodic critiques, because a big chunk of the class isn't done yet, and another chunk has totally moved on?



But if there are no entrance portfolios, how are you going to decide who gets in?
I ask because it appears that the number of people interested at least seems to outweigh the capacity of the school, (at least the capacity I would be guessing at).

I'd just really hate to be at the mercy of random chance when it comes to whether I can get in, especially if I work my arse off on a good portfolio.

I mean, I suppose a portfolio will be needed in order to bypass the foundation section, so in that case it will be like an entrance requirement... I find comfort in that, at least.