line in realistic painting.

[thecosmicgoose]

im trying to develop my skills in more realistic styles of painting that dont use lines as much to define form. its a bit of a challenge, coming from a comic/sketchy background. i was wondering if anyone had any advice on it. in perticular;

sometimes you just need to put a line in to help define a form, are there any rules of thumb on the best places to do this in a painting?

should the lines be lighter or darker then the tones your painting them agenst?

any rules on thickness?

and finally, from a technical standpoint, whats the easiest way to input subtle linework into a digital painting? (brush presets, etc)

example of my own painting below where you can see my attempts to use lines to aid definition
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/thecosmicgoose/valcalion1web.jpg.

[Viridis]

I hear you. I love using lines in my work but sometimes you just have to paint without them. I sometimes have a hard time doing this.

What I usually do is "cheat" and keep lines in the work-- but have the lines be painted so they don't stand out--essentially, just have really crisp edges. Right now your lines on your figure are all black, that's flattening the piece. You can get the same effect by taking a dark color and using a fairly high opacity to paint an edge/shape where you would have a dark line. This works best against lighter backgrounds, obviously.

My other favorite trick is to have a bright light source and then have a slight rim lighting on one side outlining parts of the figure. Again, it's a line, but it's painted the color of the light source so it doesn't flatten things as much.

Hope this helps.

[JJacks]

I'm not a super great artist so I hope this advice helps.

You need to be aware of how you are treating your edges. Don't use a dark like along something that is brightly lit and also don't use sharp or thick lines when something is going in shadow. Edges are sharper in light but I would just use a hard value shift instead of a line. Edges are softer in shadow so if you have a line there make sure it's soft and within the same value range.

Not every line has to look mechanical, strait, or have the same thickness. Erm and besides that I can't help you. :(

[Elwell]

There are no lines, only edges.

[bhanu]

lines are just illusions formed when form overlap each other, but then again painting is just drawing with a brush.

[PieterV]

Bouguereau often has line-like edges around his figures (very subtle tough).

[Elwell]

The edge plane is the final stage of the turning of the form, and is almost always slighty darker than the area immediately proceeding it. In some lighting conditions, like front lighting, it can be dramatically darker (since the edge is also where the form is turning into shadow).

[Xeon_OND]

There are no lines, only edges.
Reminds me of Vilppu's trademark quote : There are no rules, only tools. LOL :D

[thecosmicgoose]

The edge plane is the final stage of the turning of the form, and is almost always slighty darker than the area immediately proceeding it. In some lighting conditions, like front lighting, it can be dramatically darker (since the edge is also where the form is turing into shadow).

glory glory hallelujah this is what i needed to hear. im going to get this tattooed on my forehead.

[dose]

Reminds me of Vilppu's trademark quote : There are no rules, only tools. LOL :D

Reminds me of the quote from Ghostbusters: "There is no Dana, only Zuul!"

[Xeon_OND]

Reminds me of the quote from Ghostbusters: "There is no Dana, only Zuul!"
LOL, There are no objects, only lines. :D

[thecosmicgoose]

the advice in this thread did help allot. but im still having problems getting my head all the way around this.

i should probably mention that the method i learned to paint with, i create a greyscale under painting then color it using different combination of hue/saturation, layers and color replacement tools. is this method actually handicapping me when it comes to defining my edges? as at this stage i dont have hue to help me seperate one form from another.

the stage of painting i seem to get caught at the most is when im zooming in to paint out any linework that had shown through from the sketch stage of the painting. il be cruising along and then -zip- just lose the edge im working on. when this happens, how can i input that edge back in without looking like all i did was outline the form in a slightly darker shade?

come to think of it, that's a good way to put the issue in general. "when going back in to redefine any edges i lost in the painting process, it tends to look as if all i did was outline the forms in a darker color or a different hue. this flattens the image and makes it look cartoonish. how can i avoid this?"