Seperation of work and practice?

[Line]

Two days ago, Kev Ferrara critiqued a small inked image I posted in the "Finished" section. His critique was honest, to the point and positive, as always.

What he said that got me thinking, here it is.

I'd love to see you reference some of the elements the next time you do a pen and ink work. For instance, you very easily could have taken your bedsheets and laid them across two chairs to model out the cloth. And there are pictures of shapely female abdomens all over the internet.

If you give a bit more honest effort, your work will improve immensely.

Best,
kev

Now, I am stubborn at not using reference, I have been drawing from imagination all my life. I've learned more from books than actual observation, of course I am changing this, especially with color, it's opened a whole new way of thought (along with Richard Schmidt's book Alla Prima).

This illustation was paid work. I am wondering how many of you, do more for a commission than one should (if it's possible to say such a thing). For instance, in the image Kev critiqued, the fee was small, it was a small ink illustration, would it have been wise of me to go the extra mile and give an illustration that would turn out to be worth more than what I had agreed on?

I have no doubt this would benefit me, it would be practice that would be paid for, yes. But even if I wanted to, I had more to do, hence I was pressured. Do I want to improve? Yes, and I am practicing for that. But do I want to give more effort for less money? No. But I am wondering, there must be a balance here right? Plus, I am curious as to how many people actually go the extra mile, even if it's a small commission.

So my question is, do you seperate the from practice?

[S.M]

Going the extra mile on as many projects/jobs as you can would probably result in more improvement and better artworks and consequently warrant you to ask to be paid what your stuff is really worth.
Also once you hand in the picture and the clients does whatever he planned with it and shows it wherever he does, you wont be there to complain "had other stuff to do/couldnt be bothered to research/not paid enough". The better the art the better it can defend itself alone.

[KarylGilbertson]

for a situation like this, I would acknowledge the critique and use it in future pieces. If you're not getting paid enough to reference and work as hard as you want to, don't. I know our work speaks for us, and we all want our work to be the best it can be in all situations, but spend the extra time on your practice and on work where you can afford to cover the time it takes to get that proper reference in place.

[Baron Impossible]

This illustation was paid work. I am wondering how many of you, do more for a commission than one should (if it's possible to say such a thing). For instance, in the image Kev critiqued, the fee was small, it was a small ink illustration, would it have been wise of me to go the extra mile and give an illustration that would turn out to be worth more than what I had agreed on?

I have no doubt this would benefit me, it would be practice that would be paid for, yes. But even if I wanted to, I had more to do, hence I was pressured. Do I want to improve? Yes, and I am practicing for that. But do I want to give more effort for less money? No. But I am wondering, there must be a balance here right? Plus, I am curious as to how many people actually go the extra mile, even if it's a small commission.

Thing is, if you want to show your work in a portfolio you can't really stick some text underneath that says, "This was a small commission so it's a bit sketchy and I could have done better if I'd wanted to, honest." All people are interested in is the art and won't care if you only had 4 hours to complete it or were only paid £100. The fact you get practice as well is a bonus.

Just now I finished a piece. Not that it was poorly paid, it wasn't, the pay's very fair, but it's card art and I could have got away with putting less effort into it than I did. The way I see it though, not only do I want this in my porfolio further down the line, I might as well hone my detailing / finishing skills at the same time rather than do the bare minimum and spend my own time on a personal piece. And it doesn't do any harm to go that extra mile and make an impression.

Of course, if you're pushed for time it would be silly to spend extra time on one at the expense of another, but if you have the time I say why not. And if the commission is so poorly paid that it doesn't warrant the extra effort then I'd maybe reconsider if you should be doing taking on such low paid work.

Also bear in mind that if two artists work for a client and one puts in that extra effort, who's the client going to be on the phone to when a new project crops up?

[CCThrom]

Now, I am stubborn at not using reference, I have been drawing from imagination all my life.

I'm with you on this... big time. And it's a habit I'm working to change... gonna have to before stepping to the next level. Anyway, I have -many times- poured far more effort into a piece than the fee warranted. They kind of take on a life of their own once I get started.

I would love to be able to draw sans reference like Marko for example... but I just ain't that good... there comes a time for reference.

[Line]

All your points are understandable. There have been plenty of instances where I put a lot more in the work than it was worth, and I enjoyed it! Does it pay off? Of course!

I am guessing that I didn't express myself correctly. What my question is, do you guys do this regulalry? Like, in almost every commission.

This commission I'm talking about paid $200, there were 4 images, $50 each. They were small and simple (the author/client didn't demand anything too great, the girl in all these images doesn't even have a face, he hasn't figured out what she looks like yet) I finished each one in around an hour. Now, going the extra mile to use reference would take me some time, especially if I wanted to find stuff that came as close to my vision as possible. So, I figured I shouldn't waste any time. On other commissions tho, I've spent time researching the composition, lighting, getting references to help with anatomy issues etc etc.

It's all good practice, of course, only one's best imges are used in a portfolio. It's just that with me sometimes there are two 'modes', work and practice and it's hard to mix them. Even when I am using reference for a commission, I won't see it as a chance to experiment. Or, when I am practicing, I don't see it as a chance to make an art piece, I am studing.

[Qitsune]

While it's fine to make your client as happy as possible, and to improve as much as possible, there is a time when you have to call it done. I get paid by the hour so my boss would tell me to stop fiddling already if I were to be too much of a perfectionist. You know, it's good to have a very fine piece, but it's not as good if it means that you can't have enough other pieces done. So it's a question of balancing and of how much work you have in front of you. I can tell you that the stuff changed at the very end of a project tend to be a bit on the rough side.

[Flake]

Let us dig down inside to find the beautiful. We all have it. Let us take our opportunities,
even if they seem to be opportunities only to make pot-boilers, to express what we desire
of beauty.

Take the limitations that the editor imposes on you. After all, you start with a lot
of limitations, anyway, And express beauty, no matter how little you get paid.

Once when I had a little job, the editor said, “Mr. Dunn, don’t spend too much time on
these things, we’re not paying you for a lot of work, and they’re not worth it.”
And I replied,
“Mr. Editor, you may be paying me for these, but I’m really working for this fellow Dunn,
and he’s got to be pleased.”

Harvey Dunn- Class notes.

Seemed relevant.

Edit: link to notes in pdf format
http://www.robolus.com/H.Dunn-EveningClassroom.pdf

[JJacks]

I dunno, I always work to my best abilities with commissions. I want my business to grow and it won't if I just hand my clients subpar work that could have been improved just by looking up references. I recently had a color commission for pretty cheap, and I didn't want to spend a lot of time researching. I have a folder of ready-made reference poses and I picked one that matched my initial sketch. Then I looked up dresses, drew a few drafts and came up with my own. It's not that hard. There are many more time saving things you could do other than potentially sacrifice the quality or your work.

[Elwell]

When I was in school one of my teachers said to treat every job like it was a $10,000 job, so when the $10,000 jobs came you would be ready for them. Now, obviously, there are going to be some hold-your-nose-and-think-of-the-paycheck clunkers in anybody's career, but in general I think that's pretty damn good advice. The other thing is that, in illustration, you get the kind of work you show. Every piece is a potential portfolio piece, and even a job that doesn't pay much up front could be responsible for generating more work (and income) down the line.

[Line]

All points are great. You have all convinced me to do just what Kev Ferrara's comment initially sparked me to do, treat every job better, not just the more inspiring ones or the better paying ones.

I want to thank Kev once more, his post a couple of days ago made quite a difference to me. And I wanna thank all you guys and gals who helped me clear out this little dillema.