how the FUCK did Bougeureau pull this light off?

[andymania]

I have been working on this head study from a really nicely lit photograph and have been struggling with the light areas that are identical to this Bougeureau self portrait which I attached. My biggest issues are as follow:

1. The light areas appear to have a a very chalky look to them. I even friggin bought a $25 tube of Old Holland Lead White (Cremnitz White) hoping it would remedy the ultra chalkiness of Titanium white since the lead white is a bit warmer. No go. How do I avoid chalkiness? I have no other choice but to use lots of white in the light areas.

2. Subtle hue changes within areas of the same VERY LIGHT value. I am trying to do this painting Alla Prima/ hue/value/chroma in one brushstroke style but I am learning that trying do hue shifts within a very light area of the same value is extremely difficult and all my color shifts lack harmony. The only way I can acheive better harmony is through the Venetian method ( glazing, scumbling, etc.) I am trying to turn the form one "color tile" at a time and this is successful for me in the halftones and darks but doing this approach in the very light areas where you have light half tones and highlights, each color shift either seems to orange, to blue, to red, etc. No harmony.

So please look at the attached Bougereau self portrait and explain to me how he beautifully pulled of the light areas with no chalkiness and beautiful subtle hue shifts.

-Andy

[Craig D]

Andy, look at the white on the collar next to his neck. THAT is white, the skin is much warmer.

As to the alla prima bit, Boug did not work that way. You might get close but if you really want to duplicate him you'll have to work in layers at least a bit.

[Puck]

Since you're working from a photo, then you shouldn't need to get an Old Holland White (however beautifully thick and juicy and poisonous their whites are) to replicate it - a cheap inkjet printer can replicate it well enough with CMYK. It's just about getting the right colours and tones in the right place.

It will be difficult, because Bougie was a master craftsman who did a thousand drawings and tonal studies and colour studies and then did full oil painting studies of the hands and faces in a painting before he even thought about starting on the real thing - and his rough studies look better than most people's finished work.

It really will just take practice. Rather than thinking "more red, more blue, more orange" in your subtle flesh tints, just work with 'cooler' or 'warmer' to simplify it for now. It might also help to take colour samples from the light areas and see them out of their context to work out if you're even mixing the right colour.

It would help if you showed your progress so we can see where you are deviating from the Boug.

Edit: check this pixelated version - are those the colours you're mixing? Because if you're not even getting the broad strokes right, then you're wasting your time on the subtleties.

780070

[Anid Maro]

As to the alla prima bit, Boug did not work that way. You might get close but if you really want to duplicate him you'll have to work in layers at least a bit.

That's what I was just thinking. Been reading my "Techniques of the Great Masters of Art" book recently, and although it does not cover Bougeureau it does cover artists such as Gainsborough and Rubens (and a whole lotta others, damned good book). Here's an excerpt about a Rubens painting "Portrait of Susanna Lunden née Fourment":

There are no detailed preparatory underdrawings as in earlier Netherlandish painting because the composition is sketched directly in think, fluid paint. The priming plays a crucial part in the color effects especially the flesh, where traditional procedure was reversed. The lights are painted thickly and opaquely to cover the ground priming whereas the shadows are scumbled thinly and translucently over it. The optical effect is cool and pearlized in the shadow, warm in the lights. This warm-cool modulation, the modeling, is achieved entirely by controlling the thickness of the flesh paint.

These effects required great virtuosity of brushwork. Rubens is described as painting with a pot of turpentine beside him, frequently dipping his brush into it in order to thin or work the paint. This is the first documented reference to turpentine as a dilutent for oil paint and helps explains the variety of Rubens' brushwork...

Here's the painting the book is talking about, sorry for the poor image quality though:

780073

Also an excerpt on the Gainsborough painting "Portrait of the Artist's Wife":

Probably over a preliminary cursory chalk drawing, he would set to work on the canvas with rapid strokes of black, umber, lake or white paint, followed by washes of thinned color to 'block out' the form. These transparent washes, often so thin that the resembled watercolor, were to serve as a tonal underlay for further development.

The thin underlayers and half tones would begin to dry quickly, enabling Gainsborough to apply translucent, opaque, and glazing colors very rapidly in a largely wet-in-wet technique, either working into the washes or over them with translucent layers.

The painting below, again sorry for the poor image. It truly comes out much better in the book:

780074

Hopefully those excerpts will give you an idea of the kinds of layering techniques used to get the effects you're asking about.

Edit: Read your post more closely, it looks like you've already got an idea on how to achieve those effects through layering. In which case I wouldn't presume to instruct you since I haven't touched oils in years, but I hope you or someone gets some use out of those excerpts since typing 'em up was a bit of a pain. :)

[romance]

Like Craig said, those highlights aren't white and I'd be surprised if the white in the collar wasn't a light gray. Value is all relative. My suggestion would be to make a black and white value scale using your current paints and then compare them to the reference. Not only will you be able to see where those highlights fit into your current value range, but you'll also be able to determine how much color should be introduced to your white to make an accurate highlight.

Best of luck.

[D.O.Jones]

First checking your values is very good advice. If they seem correct and the lights still look chalky I would add a higher chroma colour at the correct hue and value to the mix, or ,alternatively, lower the chroma of the rest of the painting.

[emily g]

Why don't you do an oil study of the Bouguereau? Trying to emulate his style by actually doing it is probably the best way to learn it.

Also, Craig makes a good point about working alla prima vs. how Bouguereau painted.

[andymania]

Thanks for the responses guys. I'm afraid replicating a Boug will get me nowhere and I will end up right where I am now: chalky lights in the face. I will try to mess around with adjacent colors in order to tone down the chalkiness. I never understood how pros say to lighten colors with other lighter colors instead of white in order to avoid the chalkiness. My question is is if you lighten with other colors, you will have very high chroma lights, which is not what I am seeing in Boug's face. It looks like you would need lots of white in order to capture the lights in the face, but not sure how to avoid the chalkiness. I'll go back and reevaluate my values.

[hunchback]

well it could be the white your using O_O
titanium white is reaaalllly powerful and cold ie blueish
try a warmer white for the skin

it looks like he used titanium for the coat and the beard hairs but everything else is really subtle, just do a colour study and try to find a blueish, a reddish, and yellowish colour that will give you his colours. You have to start thinking about the lights warmth because there really isnt any hue change in it. His flesh is purpleish so the light must be a yellow ( means titanium aint gonna work and york gonna keep getting the chalkyness.

Plus he didnt paint it alla prima : P

but the idea is to learn and i hope that sorta explained it.

ps. raw sienna is everywhere!!!

[dashinvaine]

A very useful link for you (http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Swearing)

[Hyskoa]

A very useful link for you (http://www.wikihow.com/Stop-Swearing)


Unless he had 7 fucks per sentence, that site and way of thinking is pointless.

[Craig D]

and way of thinking is pointless.

except that you always say everything is pointless so it's hard to agree with you after a while.

[Hyskoa]

except that you always say everything is pointless so it's hard to agree with you after a while.

There's a difference between calling someone on an exaggeration and turning it into a debate about existential nihilism .

Back on topic: Might want to try determining the colors through the munsell color chart chips.

[Sidharth Chaturvedi]

Are you copying that from a picture or from your screen? The lights tend to look a bit lighter on the screen. Get a really good printout. Also, as everyone pointed out already, the light areas in the face aren't the brightest part of the painting, the collar accent is. Look at the whole painting at once and compare those values, you wont get it right by staring at one area because your eyes will adjust to it.

Also, listen to Emily. Do the oil copy :). It's frightening but it's a lot of fun and you'll learn a lot.

[andymania]

Thanks a bunch for all the input guys. I am still confused as to how it would make a difference adding a more intense hue at a light value to the white if I have to use white anyway to lower the value of that intense hue. The way I do it now is that I start with a large amount of lead white (Hunchback I am using Cremnitz white instead of the strong Titanium.) add small amounts of red, blue, terra rosa, or whatever I need to shift the temperatures/chroma. But that is what leads to the chalkiness. I know I can remedy the chalkiness by applying soft glazes over the light areas but I was very curious as to how can I acheive these lights via Alla Prima, without any kind of galzing/scumbling or any other altercations. I took a piece of gray paper cut out a small hole and compared the values in the photo and my painting. They seem to be dead on. Its just the dead chalkiness look that is driving me nuts.

Maybe Craig D can help me out on this.

I will also try doing a Bougie study.

[alesoun]

Did Bougie work Alla Prima? Because, if he didn't, and you're trying to copy the effect he produced......... well, it might work, but........

[Craig D]

You don't have to use high chroma paints to change your temperature/values. Try getting in there with more yellow ochre etc. instead.

As well, some people use something like Naples yellow instead of more white to avoid this issue.

The best way for us to give any more specific advice though is to see what you have been attempting.
And if it helps, you're not alone in having had this issue :)

[Jason Rainville]

Bougeureau was a warlock. Only explanation.

[DSillustration]

Figure this may help you,
This is Bouguereau's palette as best experts can tell from x-rays, chemical analysis, and notes.
Of course, some colors changed over the course of his career, but this is a good approximation of those he used most frequently.

Bouguereau's Palette:
• Naples Yellow (lead antimoniate)
• Yellow-Ochre
• Chrome Yellow, dark
• Viridian
• Cobalt Blue
• White Lead
• Light Vermilion
• Chinese Vermilion
• Mars Brown (iron oxide); this available from Lefranc & Bourgeois
• Van Dyck Brown
• Burnt Sienna
• Ivory Black
• Bitumen
• Genuine Rose Madder, dark

As for your chalkiness issue...
try thinking of white as a cool color.
Thus, you need to use it sparingly in the highlight.
try to favor more yellow, or at the very least surround the white with warm colors so it takes on their appearance.
The highlights in the face you mentioned are very similar to a color I use called Nickel Titanium Yellow Light by Rembrandt.
Try it.
I use it as a substitute for white in the warm areas so as to keep them warm.
Then if I need it, I bump it up to white.

[hunchback]

ah well

using canvas or board?
alla prima is done in one sitting dude, so if youve figured out everyother thing in the painting ( ie colours tones drawing blah blah) then you might have to spend some time on the same piece to get it where you want it. ere go it is not an alla prima piece.

thought i might point that out to yah

please get a photo of said study for our reference if possible

[Elwell]

That Rembrandt color Dan mentioned is just zinc white with a touch of bismuth yellow (PW4, PY184). It's convenient, but you could mix your own with any white and high chroma yellow, like a cad or hansa lt. When people talk about using higher chroma pigments in the lights, that's exactly what they mean. The thing to remember is that it just takes a smidge to tint the white.

[Elwell]

Note that Boug probably didn't use any pigments near that high chroma even in the lightest lights. They're probably just white and YO or Naples, with maybe a touch of red.

[Elwell]

One more thing:
When you're mixing colors, treat every value as a separate mixture. Don't just lighten the local.

[dbclemons]

Geniune Nickel Titanate Yellow is PY53. I have it from Grumbacher's Pre-Tested brand, and it works well in skin tone mixes. Sort of a pale yellow ochre. You could certainly approximate it with other colors, but it's nice as a single pigment.

The main thing I would say about Bougeureau is to try and look at the origianl painting, or any substitute, in person. Photos have difficulty showing all the subtleties of tones.

[jrr]

more important is how he painted it , not what he used. like the others said, if you look at these paintings in person, they're smooth and even as FUCK. I believe he lays paint down on a wet smooth surface.

[romance]

One more thing:
When you're mixing colors, treat every value as a separate mixture. Don't just lighten the local.

Quoted For Truth.

[andymania]

Ah I see. I will try to post my progress soon. Elwell, right now my color mixing method has 2 main piles/pools of color: darks and lights. I just keeping adding colors to those pools and white if needed. You mean to say that I should mix every value change seperately and from scratch instead of just add to what ever I previously mixed on the palette?

[andymania]

more important is how he painted it , not what he used. like the others said, if you look at these paintings in person, they're smooth and even as FUCK. I believe he lays paint down on a wet smooth surface.

lol. I like how you emphazised fuck

[andymania]

Hunchback, its on board. Ampersand gesso board. It's really great.

[dashinvaine]

How cool is this: William Adolphe Bouguereau is an anagram of WOOPEE! ALLELUIA! I'M BAD GURU!