How do you know if you're being taken advantage of?

[Chas]

So Here's the situation.
In my day job I work as an events coordinator for the recreation dept. of a small rural municipality. We don't have a lot of money. There is a plan afoot to finally build an indoor soccer field (after about 10 years of trying). It's pretty much all set to go. The rec. & culture council member had asked the guys in our IT/GIS dept. (they use Autocad & Sketchup) to create some images of the propsed building. ( one of those prefab. inflated sports dome thingies) They did what they could but they just couldn't get an exterior view that was any good.
So my buddy Andy up in G.I.S. mentions to the councilor that he has seen my sketcbook and he thinks that I would be much better suited to do an "artists rendition" of the exterior. So the coucilor talks to my boss and she asks me if I'm interested. I say it's not anything I've ever done before, but I think I would probably be able to - depending on the specifics that they want, and I would need to talk through the details before I said yes.
A few weeks go by and nothing. A couple more go by and nothing. So I forget about it.
One day the councilor is in to see my boss about something unrelated and sees me. Of course now he remembers and asks if I'm still interested in doing it. I tell him that I think I could do something he'd be satisfied with but that would need to find out the details, i.e. what are the dimensions of the building, does he have any images from the manufacturer etc. So he comes into my office and uses my comp. to get into his email where he opens an attachment from a message from the manufactuer with all the details & some images. I look it over and ask him how big he wants the finished piece to be he says nothing too big maybe 20"X30". He then gets a call on his cell phone and he's off.
My buddy Andy calls me up the next day and during the ensuing discussion I find out that I'm apparently doing the drawing. Now there has been no discussion of cost or payment at all. Andy's dept. was initially supposed to be doing this, so there was no direct cost save their working hours. This is deffinately outside of my job description, but I'm on a contract and would like to get in full time.
The finished piece is due on Thurs. (and it will be done) and still there has been no mention of any cost or payment. I did purchase materials for this project and charged them to the municipalities account, but that's it.
It is clear to me that they expect (& have all along)me to do this as part of my employment, even though I've had to do it on weekends (when I haven't been working) & week nights.
Now I realize that I probably should have said something & it is my own bloody fault for not bringing it up. So as it stands I'm O.K. with doing it pro-bono. but given the events and the fact that I am on a contract and hope to get hired on full time, my question is :
Have I been taken advantage of?
What do you think?
P.S. sorry for the long post. And thanks to anyone who reads the whole thing!

[Flake]

Unreadable block of text, choose paragraphs, sentences, anything else.

[Kaycy is tanning]

tl;dr He got a design assignment but there were no prior agreements on costs, time, compensation.

I think you should have asked your compensation for this, why don't you ask it asap. You let yourself get taken advantage off a bit by not doing so.

[Arish]

Hmm... if you were able to do this within your regular work hours I'd say it's a grey area - but since you had to work unpaid overtime and do specialized work that isn't in your job description, then YES I'd say you were taken advantage of.

Is it too late to negotiate that you'd like to be paid for your work (or at the very least, your overtime hours) before producing the final drawing? I understand you want to be hired full-time but it's not a very good idea to set a precedent that the company can use you how they want without compensation...

[DavePalumbo]

well, nobody is making you do this for free, you're doing it. It may be an awkward time to mention this since you hadn't said anything earlier, but the fact remains that it's your call. From your description of events, it sounds like you did agree to do it even if you were hesitant and just never mentioned compensation. It's up to you to mention it if you want any.

If you want to do it because it may lead to better opportunities in the company, then go for it and consider it extra credit/paying your dues. If you feel like it's unfair and you're going to resent doing this for free, then speak up. At the least, ask to be compensated at the same rate as you regularly make since you ought to be doing it on company time.

Either way, you're the one deciding to do it or not

[JJacks]

It's not that hard to read Flake. :/

Anyways, I would say they pretty much took advantage of you. There's no reason why they couldn't have paid you, but you should have spoken up and maybe put something in writing. I don't know how these things work too well but that's my opinion.

[Chas]

Don't get me wrong here. In no way do I resent it. In fact I don't have any hard feelings about doing this. It's just that after telling a few people that I'm doing it, and hearing the response "they're taking advantage" I started to wonder.
That's all. besides I've never actually done a commission before and would have no idea what to charge.

[Black Spot]

At the very least, you could ask for time in lieu.

[LuckyDevil]

I agree with Davepalumbo and his suggestions, it's your call.

Next time if your doing freelance design work always ask for half the cost upfront (say to cover materials) and the rest when it's finished...i learned that the hard way. Not all but some business will try to screw over the art people because they think its easy work and overpriced, and most of the time the artist do not have the resources to pursue the businesses for any legal action.

Oh and don't forget to document your work for your portfolio

[J Wilson]

Sounds like another case of non artists assuming that art doesn't take any real time or effort. Even if you are ok with doing this pro bono, the danger is that since it cost them nothing, and an end result just magically appears, that they fail to really recognize what they've gotten for free. What's that quote? "What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly."

In my opinion, even if you don't ask for payment, make sure they understand there was still substantial work involved, including your free time. If you are hoping for a full time position, you need to make sure that someone is aware of the extra mile you have gone. It may be tricky to do without sounding like you are fishing for asspats, but worse is having them take it completely for granted.

[Xeon_OND]

I dunno about the culture in Canada, but over here in my country, mostly everyone's strategy to surviving corporate culture is:

Stay away from any jobs or tasks or errands that's not related to your job scope.
Stay far away and don't get yourself involved in any kind of shit.
You start work, do only what you gotta do, you wait for the fucking clock to strike, then go home.

People end up getting hurt (like in your case) cos' they're too helpful and kind, and we all know that doesn't pay. Never. I've been a total victim of this everytime without fail.

And if your bosses are something like mine, then they'll just tell you to suck it up and that all you've done (drawings of the building) are JUST PART OF YOUR JOB. :nohope:

[Elwell]

If you have to ask, then you probably are.

[hitnrun]

Xeon as much as I love it, artists, or so I've always been told, aren't the "9-5 occupation" type. Most every art teacher I've ever had has told me "if you want to be an artist, prepare for long work days". Just the other day I put in a good 18 hour day but that includes classes and the homework involved. I kind of enjoy the relatively unorthodox hours. Of course, with "9-5" comes "steady paycheck".

[DavePalumbo]

Stay away from any jobs or tasks or errands that's not related to your job scope.
Stay far away and don't get yourself involved in any kind of shit.
You start work, do only what you gotta do, you wait for the fucking clock to strike, then go home.

this sounds like an excellent way to be a mediocre employee with a low but still theoretical possibility for advancement

[Xeon_OND]

this sounds like an excellent way to be a mediocre employee with a low but still theoretical possibility for advancement
Damn. Now I finally know the reason why I'm still stuck in the same old position since 4+ years ago. :nohope:

[Line]

this sounds like an excellent way to be a
mediocre employee with a low but still theoretical possibility for advancement

Hehe, at least he won't feel like trash when, after those 4+ years of hard
work, effort and dedication, the new hot chick or worse, the vice presidnet's
nephew's friend who's never worked before get's hired and in a higher paying
position.

It's also better than feeling used like all those people who devote 30+ years
to a company and then get laid off earlier, hence getting cheated into
getting lower pensions.

And it's also better than working hard and devoted for a company in hopes of
a promition, and then the company closes and the bosses take the millions
they made from taking advantage of the worker, and go to the Bahamas or
something.

No disrespect to you Dave, but, the truth is, hard work is never a garantee,
you see stuff like what I just described happen all the time. Unfortunatey,
from my experience, very very few get rewarded for their hard work.

But, you're also right, no development occurs by doing nothing. It just goes
to show that many things in life are like living on a razor's edge.

As far as Chas's perdicament is concerned, even if you get's no pay (and you
should ask for it) you can use the art as part of a portfolio and hunt for some
commissions in the future and do those correctly. It's not a total loss right?

[Xeon_OND]

Hehe, at least he won't feel like trash when, after those 4+ years of hard work, effort and dedication, the new hot chick or worse, the vice presidnet'snephew's friend who's never worked before get's hired and in a higher paying position.

It's also better than feeling used like all those people who devote 30+ years to a company and then get laid off earlier, hence getting cheated into getting lower pensions.

And it's also better than working hard and devoted for a company in hopes of a promition, and then the company closes and the bosses take the millions they made from taking advantage of the worker, and go to the Bahamas or something.

No disrespect to you Dave, but, the truth is, hard work is never a garantee, you see stuff like what I just described happen all the time. Unfortunatey, from my experience, very very few get rewarded for their hard work.

But, you're also right, no development occurs by doing nothing. It just goes to show that many things in life are like living on a razor's edge.

As far as Chas's perdicament is concerned, even if you get's no pay (and you should ask for it) you can use the art as part of a portfolio and hunt for some commissions in the future and do those correctly. It's not a total loss right?
This is truly and exactly what happens in the real world.

I used to be a goody-goody super-loyal employee, always sucking up every single motherfucking thing superiors ask me to do, and lots more. In the end, people spotted this and start taking advantage of you, making full use of you like some disposable tool.

Worse yet, the more you do, the higher the chances of things going wrong become. You can't blame the boss or the higher-ups, so you just keep quiet and say it's your fault even when it's totally not.

The feeling is crappy as hell, and since then, my motto is: Get in, do what you gotta do, no more no less, time's up, go home, rinse and repeat.

There are exceptions, of course, like when your boss / superior happens to be the kind of guy really WORTH working for, then that's a different matter......but that's harder than trying to convince Leonardo Da Vinci to draw exclusively in manga style.

[TASmith]

what Elwell said. "If there's any doubt, then there is no doubt." - DeNiro in Ronin.

[Chas]

Update: I talked to my boss's boss and the Coucil member and after I explained to them how much time it took and that the maority of the work was done at home ( which my boss vouched for since I spent most of my work hours actually doing my job) they said I should take all of next week off with Pay!

So this is a big Thank-you to CA (and the folks who responed in particular). Next time I'll remmber to have the discussion of the fee up front!
Once agian Thanks all.:sungod:

[jhofferle]

Glad to hear it worked out. I've worked at some places where the end result would have not been so pleasant.

[DavePalumbo]

No disrespect to you Dave, but, the truth is, hard work is never a garantee,
you see stuff like what I just described happen all the time. Unfortunatey,
from my experience, very very few get rewarded for their hard work.

yeah man, I'm fully aware of how people are overlooked and taken advantage of in the corporate world. I don't think I said anything about hard work being the guarantee to success. Politics probably plays a bigger role, sadly, than competence. You have to use your brain too, and make sure that people acknowledge your work instead of steal credit for it.

I will guarantee though, you don't excelled by doing as little as possible. You don't get promotions from being the invisible employee who hides in the corner.

I just think the attitude of "do as little as possible" is a shit attitude. Too many people live by it and then complain about how under-appreciated they are.