Team Chow II :: Feedback/Discussion Thread

[daestwen]

Comments? Concerns? Complaints? Dare I ask, compliments?

Let me here them.

I'm especially interested to hear from those who didn't finish. Life get in the way? Team troubles?

Enough time, too much time? Enough work, too much work, too little work?

Lay it on me, I want to hear it all.

I super duper appreciate it. :D


Also, I'm pretty damn sure we're gonna be running another one of these, so let me know your thoughts! How often would you be up for participating? Do you think a longer time frame would be better/worse? Smaller teams? Bigger teams?

thank you thank you thank you in advance

[vardoburrito]

<3
Thank you Daestwen n Poshspice for spending so much time and effort in helping others develop.
Your examples, Paramount - I can't believe (Daestwen) you were doing the CHOW II and answering our nagging pms :teeth: :P


-That said, I love the motivation culture that I'd bumped into in this little pocket of CA.
Teamworks and fallen teammates, tragic stories and romance, like a movie.

-The processes can always be learnt, and the ideas are what separates.
I loved my team, and the others who shared with each other.
Keep developing this sharing culture, like a real studio. :)
The quicker everyone develops the process, the sooner your brilliant and wonderful ideas can be shared to my googly eyes and the billions of others.


CHOW III - Sign me up already.

/end random thoughts
/vardo

[Sekino]

Well, I guess I'll bump this up and give feedback (even though my team did make it to finals; YAY!! ;)).

Overall, I think it was fantastic. As a team, we determined it was out priority to make sure every team member was equally involved, with the ideas as well as the artwork. We all got to organize, critique, compromise and draw and it was a HUGE challenge. But really, the hard work and time spent is the reason why we were elated on Monday, posting on the final thread.

Time-wise, I personally think 1 month is reasonable. Even though it flew right by, the fact that the deadline wasn't too lenient was an incentive to get on the ball early on and not procrastinate too much.

Um... One crit I do have (perhaps not the right place for it) is that it took me almost 30 minutes to load and refresh the final thread page to see all the entries. The browser wouldn't download all of the images and I'd get a lot of red X icons (I didn't want to vote until I got to view everything). I don't know if anyone else encountered such issues and probably only my own browser sucks ;) But maybe it would be good to have a uniform size/resolution for all the submitted images in the future since Team Chow involves truckloads of them.

Anyways, thanks Daestwen and Posh for all the orchestrating and kudos to all the teams for their hard work! :)

[FalyneVarger]

I know the main reason I had to drop out was because life got in the way. I also had some computer issues.
I think that maybe one more week would have made big enough difference, but that is probably only because I came in late.

[nimzicki]

I think that 4 weeks was enough, as long as teams got in to it straight away then it was plenty of time to get things done. Barring any life troubles of course but you can never predict those. Like Sekino says, it was enough to get the amount of work done, but not enough so that you get lazy and forget about it.

I also agree about the final submissions, the thread is now filled with what is essentially the same images, posted 3 times in the form of actual submission, framed, presentation boards etc. It also wasn't 100% clear on the submission format from the start which it needed to be, some teams wasted a lot of time before we were told that the bit that said "presentation is up to you" was left over from the last TCHOW.

Last crit would be that the deadline should have been adhered to properly, it was hours past midnight everywhere in the world before it was closed. If my team had known that would happen we wouldn't have been up until 5am finishing.

Other than that, I just want to say thanks for setting this up, its the first activity i've been involved in on the boards and I loved every minute of it. I've learned a lot, its given me the motivation to persevere with other activities and had fun. What more can you ask for? :)

[Razorleaf]

I enjoyed Team Chow very much.

1. I found that there were too many questions from the onset and right into production about format etc. I think the rules, format and final presentation requirements should have been more clear from the beginning.

2. I think something should be in place for those teams who lose a member or for whatever reason their group changes so that they can still participate.

3. I think giving the "sample" at the beginning confused a lot of people.

4. I also think that there should be a limit to the size of files in the final. Some were so big that they were hard to see and took forever to download. Maybe 500 x 500 or something like that.

5. As far a time, I think one month was more than enough to create, format and present the team's work.

6. As far as compliments - Daestwen you were incredible. Not only did you create your own work but you managed to respond promptly to all the questions and have a day job and put up the poll. I think you deserve two thumbs up. :)

7. I also think all the teams should be selected and firmly in place before the contest begins, that way we don't have to waste time screwing around with a lot of questions and reorganization of teams.

Looking forward to Chow III !!

[CKLamb]

So, I really enjoyed this whole endeavor. I think a month was more then enough time to get your hands dirty, and push out a final project. I was lucky that I didn't lose any teammates along the way, though some had to take a few days off here and there.

Ultimately, I could have used another week, but only because I bit off more then I could chew (six portraits all together). I'll probably be spending the next week or two cleaning them up and polishing them off to a respectable level. Would I do it again? Maybe next year, but not anytime soon. I didn't get any personal work done during the whole month of August.

Gripes: Mostly what has already been stated. Formatting needs to be clear from the get go, we wasted some time trying to figure that out, then came to find that what we were doing wasn't needed. On top of that, we followed what we thought was the rigid format and limited our image sizes to that of the example, 700px, only to find that almost every other team was dropping these 900px+ images. This kind of dwarfed our finals real estate, so to speak. Not to mention made viewing crazy. I also think the whole closing time needed to be either rigid or an extension announced, just for the fact that it was a weekday night and people were staying up crazy late to finish things off.

One thing that I wouldn't mind seeing in the future is a competition that uses an outside judge's panel for evaluation.
EDIT: More for a better overall assessment of how your team did, whether you win or lose.

However, to end on an upbeat note, I think the competition was run very smoothly, especially considering it's only the second time this has occurred. A big thanks to Daestwen, for supplying her precious time, and Jason Manley, for providing a community activity event with some actual kick-ass awards!

[¿Dubious?]

Id just like to throw in that even though I didnt participate I thought this topic was fantastic and I think the community response shows that. I would suggest perhaps keeping the same topic (good vs. evil) and trying a different setting (sci-fi, western, swashbuckling etc.). Also even though some of the people who participated in this one might not be up for another right away I think enough people are itching for another one that getting it going as soon as possible might not be a bad idea. Then again it is fall so school will be starting up soon. In any case those are just some thoughts.

[Niva.]

The challenge was great and it forced me to do stuff I've never done before in terms of workflow. By the end of it I think I cranked out the best work I've ever made and this was my ultimate goal for entering.

Things I'd love to see changed in future team challenges:

Prizes: This was said in the other thread but I don't think the prizes cater to top artists right now. Instead beginner artists would benefit more from them IF they're serious. It's great to have prizes but considering the results of this challenge and the top two finishers you have to acknowledge the facts. Give the winning team a comission for an upcoming massive black project instead or publish their work somehow. At the very least create an admin email linking to a dedicated thread showing off their awesomeness. I know I wouldn't mind seeing the Howling Loveboys thread being linked form an admin email. Now that's worthwhile and certainly doable.
More precise definition at the start of the challenge of the specifics. While there was a great starting pitch down the line a lot of confusion arose about formats of the image, pixel size and 2x3 ratios and etc. This should be specifically spelled out in the very first pitch of the challenge and teams should be held to it.
We made a mess of the FINAL BURNING thread, I don't even know what went wrong and how we submitted to an incorrect thread and why the thread we saw was linking to the makings of a new thread...
Make provisions for dropouts/pickups. A few teams didn't finish because of lack of activity. My team suffered for it too and barely finished. The problem is that I don't have good suggestions on what needs to be done here, but that's why they pay massive black people the big money, to answer questions such as these!


I'm looking forward to the next one either way. Thanks for hosting this and actually listening to feedback by creating a thread for it. This website rocks!

[daestwen]

Thanks everyone so so much - I don't have time to reply to everything but trust me I'm reading all of it.

Couple points I'd like to touch on:

For the Team Chow Thread Loading time... Not totally sure how we're going to solve that one but I'll chat with davi and see if we can figure out a format that might work better. There were over 180 images in that thread this time which is why it was so difficult to load.

Sorry sorry sorry about the format confusion, you have no idea how badly I feel about that. Next time it will be very clear from day one, I promise!


and one very very last thing:

Make provisions for dropouts/pickups. A few teams didn't finish because of lack of activity. My team suffered for it too and barely finished. The problem is that I don't have good suggestions on what needs to be done here, but that's why they pay massive black people the big money, to answer questions such as these!

Only problem with this statement is that Massive Black doesn't run this competition, I do. They offer the amazing amazing prizes. I, however, don't make a cent from running this! But I will try to answer such questions anyway.

[hala]

Thanks Daestwen for hosting this :) --

I agree about format.
I think the theme was really confusing as well because we were supposed to stick to a certain genre, but then it was allowed to be pushed a little, and eventually it became confusing as to what's allowed and what was not. Like whether one person's half animal character was "too" animal for general CHOW guidelines or not.

Is there a way other people can help volunteer with running team CHOW, IE: answering questions/etc so that you're not getting swamped with everything. I wouldn't mind helping, and I'm sure there are other people on CA that would be willing to be like mini mods of team chow. (perhaps this has been answered already elsewhere, I don't know. Team CHOW was the first of the weekly activities I've ever participated in).

[NoShot]

Thanks Daestwen for organizing these competitions! They really are fun and they encourage participants to push themselves. Being able to browse team's scketchbooks is a learning opportunity in and of itself! These challenges (and CA in general) have been a great help to me as a beginner.

I have read a couple posts regarding prizes and who they are being awarded to. While I think I understand the poster's point of view, I have to say that it just doesnt make sense to me. Prizes are awarded to the winners of a competition based on quality of work, not their professional status. Sure, I dont think it was a surprise to anyone that the Loveboys have the highest number of votes, but why should they not be granted the same prizes? I'm sure they like cool loot just as much as the next guy :) The point of the prizes is not to help out a struggling artist, it is to reward outstanding work, and they have the most outstanding work. When you enter a competition like this, you must realize that there are some extraordinary artists out there who will compete against you. Hope I'm not beating a dead horse, but I felt the need to comment on this.

[Niva.]

The prizes should be awarded to the winner of the challenge. Everyone knew what the prizes were before entering.

What is being discussed is to make things better for the future. Don't take things out of context.

[Sentinel.]

Some points I'd like to comment on:

On the prizes being awarded - everyone please remember that daestwen had no control over that. Jason threw it in as a bonus. This activity wasn't set up with a prize initially, and if downloads to CA educational activities are what Jason feels like donating, there's not much to say other than thanks. He didn't have to award anything at all. :D

I don't think that's what people should be focusing on anyway - it's what you take out of the collaboration itself that means the most. You don't have to win the poll to win at the activity. Hell, my team didn't even finish and I'm still extremely happy with what I got out of it.

As for feedback on the activity - I honestly don't have any complaints, though we didn't make it through the whole process. Our team worked together incredibly well, but in those last two weeks we got slammed with some real life stuff and weren't able to pull it through in the end. We also had a hard time holding ourselves back, I think - we got wrapped up in creating the whole world and gave ourselves too many character concepts to juggle for the scope of the project. With a little more time at our disposal we could have done it all, but that's the case with just about everything, so... :P

I think I'm speaking for everyone on my team when I say that we still learned a great deal and had a lot of fun.

On the topic/guidelines - I've got to give you some Kudos daestwen for coming up with a great topic for both this round and the previous one. I don't mind that this round was more genre specific since there was still room for creativity, and it operated more like the weekly activity itself where you get the whole spectrum of general to specific briefs. The good/evil incarnation of each character was a pretty cool idea too.


After seeing the amount of teams who finished and the quality of work submitted, I can only imagine each round getting better than the last. I'm pumped to get started again (and actually finish this time :wink: )

[CKLamb]

Yeah, the prize thing has gotten completely out of whack, I unintentionally derailed the finals thread a little. I think we should just drop it completely now, lawd knows we don't want to come off as ingrates! Especially considering our usual prize is just a few pixels next to our name. I just want to say again, thanks for your time Daestwen, I know it cost you on your own project.

[blackcherry]

This was my second Team CHOW competition and I felt it was a lot more successful than the first one for me. This is likely due to having attempted it once so I was a bit familiar with the concept, but I also enjoyed the topic more and I really liked working with my team. I also learnt a lot in the process, so it’s definitely a worthwhile experience!

I think the time for the competition is very fair. A month is enough to explore, develop and produce a concept, and its good practice for working to a deadline. I think any longer would be too much. Of course sometimes with life getting in the way you may need that bit extra but I guess that’s just something that happens. I know I lost a week due to travelling to visit family and not having regular computer access but I still managed to finish in time, so I think the deadline should be strict for this.

Sizes of teams should probably be at a maximum of 6 people...and maybe even that’s too much? I think 4 is a good number, seems to work well. I think it’s only fair though that, as with this project, the work load can be altered slightly depending on the amount of people in the team.

As for how often the competition should run, maybe every 3 months? Not really sure but definitely sometime to think about. I think if it runs too regularly it might affect the entries for the other weekly topics, which are also great to take part in. I know I’d find it hard to complete both the weekly CHOWs and do Team CHOW at the same time. Also I think it’s nice that it’s not on all the time because then it makes it more of a novelty to do something that bit different from the normal CHOW competition.

The only thing I regret not doing is commenting more on other teams’ sketchbooks. I think more feedback between the different teams would be great. I also think that when voting people should try and give more feedback to the different groups if they have any helpful advice or comments, as all the teams put in a lot of effort into producing and submitting their entries.

All in all I think it’s been very well run thanks to you (Daetswen) and anyone else who may help run and organise the competition. I’m sure it must be a lot of work! So well done :)

The only complaint I would have, which has already been mentioned, is there not being a clear format (size limit etc) for the final entries to be submitted at.

Some points mentioned earlier by Razorleaf, which I think would be worth considering is having the teams set up and organised before the competition begins, that would save some time and organisation in the long run. Also the point about having a format in place for a team member dropping out would be good too, though I guess the workload could just be altered to make up for the lost member.

Anyways, I'll be looking forward to Team CHOW III :D

[Niva.]

Some points I'd like to comment on:

On the prizes being awarded - everyone please remember that daestwen had no control over that. Jason threw it in as a bonus. This activity wasn't set up with a prize initially, and if downloads to CA educational activities are what Jason feels like donating, there's not much to say other than thanks. He didn't have to award anything at all. :D

I don't think that's what people should be focusing on anyway - it's what you take out of the collaboration itself that means the most. You don't have to win the poll to win at the activity. Hell, my team didn't even finish and I'm still extremely happy with what I got out of it.


You are very much correct in this regard. It's definitely worth thinking about in the future though if they'll offer prizes at all. I'm really thrilled about the whole thing as it was but the comments which were originally raised by someone else were very valid imo. Bottom line is that no good deed goes unpunished, in this case there's bitching about prizes that really shouldn't be the focus of these challenges.

[clanlord]

Hello!
All these statements here are correct and I agree with this! Daestwen is very busy organising this whole contest but this is his work and he accepted this and he does it perfectly well inspite of some issues the teams had on this challange in the beginning but there is no perfect man. Of course we had a wonderful time. The contest was very original and the idea itself appeared to us very interesting.

[Jazz]

Hey!! :D I got back from my vacation yesterday. Now and again I was thinking about Team ChOW II because I was in, then I had to go. I do wish I could've joined in more, but I'm looking forward to the next Team ChOW! I think I'm gaining more and more confidence to help with the team! ^___^

Because of work, school, more school and my vacation, I really couldn't have joined in. The theme this time, however, was just awesome to me, I was grating my teeth at first, aching to do something! O_O Just the timing for me. I sure hope many people had a great time doing this one! :D

I can't wait for the next one, and I still gotta figure out where this finals thread is. o_o;; Heh... *looks*

[hala]

just throwing some ideas on the table here--not very thought out.

If there was another team CHOW it would be interesting to have something like a mentor/leaders--- we could still pick teams the way we did this time, and if any of the more experienced people were willing, they could go around to team SB's and give their two cents and advice based on their experience with weekly and team CHOWs.

I think we all learn a great deal from doing the weekly activities, and that kind of constructive help could benefit us all.

Like i said this is just a rough idea, it has a lot of problems---not everyone has the time to help out others, none the less for free, and everyone is on a diff. skill level. or what determines who is experienced or not.

Just some thoughts for the future because I think the interaction between people is what gives us all some direction to work towards so that we know how to take our pieces to the next level.

bah i dunno.

[Adam Schumpert]

Just had a quick rough idea... I know it would probably be a bit tight as far as
preparation time for a Team CHOW but I had the thought today that a
Halloween themed Team CHOW would be awesome. ... Lords of Undeath? or
Elder Gods? or Monster Mash? or Noir Horror movie cast? or something maybe?
<shrug> Just an idea >:D

[daestwen]

Adam: As much as i would love to do an october team chow... that would start tomorrow. :P We'll have a fun halloween round for the regular chow, though, you just wait!

Team chow will likely run again in january/february, since october is too soon, and posh and I are both super busy in november, and I have a feeling that december is out for the holidays.