Industrial Apocalypse

[Android]

i dont read too many essays but i found this one compelling and interesting, its actually more of a debate than an essay between two viewpoints,

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/142051

The writing is on the wall for industrial society, and no amount of ethical shopping or determined protesting is going to change that now. Take a civilisation built on the myth of human exceptionalism and a deeply embedded cultural attitude to "nature"; add a blind belief in technological and material progress; then fuel the whole thing with a power source that is discovered to be disastrously destructive only after we have used it to inflate our numbers and appetites beyond the point of no return. What do you get? We are starting to find out.


i kind of like human exceptionalism, and i have a blind belif in my Wacom tablet.

oh well , lets make some meaningful art while we still can Kidos.
:android:

[DeadlyFreeze]

Its the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

[thesaint]

I think that's our nature. In the beginning the human race where a nomad race, we moved to a spot drained all of it's resources and them moved to somewhere else. Unfortunately now, we don't have nowhere else in this planet to go.
I know that this sounds too much sci-fi, but I think that we need to find another "Earth" or soon (by soon I don't mean in this immediate future) our civilization WILL collapse, and we can't do nothing about it.
In my point of view, we are a nomad virus, and we should accept it :D Just like turtles accept being turtles and wolves accept that they are wolves.

I fell lighter now :) I will draw.

[Ian Barker]

Humans should accept they are a nomad virus like a turtle accepts it is a turtle and a wolf accepts it is a wolf... okay... (I'm not trying to start a debate on whether we're a virus, just saying maybe try for a more logical train of thought :P).

Anyways, I believe in destiny to a certain degree. For example, my job requires that I climb up tall, often bent ladders, in the mud, on slopes (washing windows). It would be easy to fall off, but I don't worry about it because I'm going to become a professional artist, and if I took a 40 foot fall, I probably wouldn't be able to do that. That doesn't mean I'm not careful; one wrong move and my destiny could be out the window. I feel the same way towards the state of the environment. Sure, we could be treading dangerous territory in the far, far future, and it would be a good idea to try and set up a good foundation of safety while we can, but I feel that as long as we're careful, we do have a purpose that won't allow for an uninhabitable earth. It's a bit of a blind inclination, and has something to do with my belief in God, but that's just where I stand on the situtation. I know I probably sound like a whack-job for not believing in data and charts and graphs as reigning over all... but I just can't do that. :P Call it irresponsible, ignorant and/or selfish, but sometimes I feel that it's my place to draw what I see, and let the 'important' people decide on the important matters. With any luck, my visions inspired by the world our leaders create can someday inspire them in return, and their consequent visions can inspire me again.

That said, it's a good read, and I like this bit a lot:
And who wants it tamed anyway? Most people in the rich world won't be giving up their cars or holidays without a fight.

...As for saving the planet – what we are really trying to save, as we scrabble around planting turbines on mountains and shouting at ministers, is not the planet but our attachment to the western material culture, which we cannot imagine living without.


EDIT: Haha, just reread my post and it probably looks like my second paragraph contradicts my first one to most of you... it actually doesn't though ;)

[thesaint]

I mostly agree with you, I'm not saying that "we're a virus, let's burn earth - hell yeah". In fact I think that we should be super-duper-careful here: if we kill the earth now we're in SERIOUS problem - just like a virus when it kills his victim before infecting another.

[Hookswords]

No one ever said we were a smart virus. Just an effective one.

[Jason Rainville]

... and I'm back to "fuck hope"

EDIT: something from The Dark Mountain Project's Manifesto; (http://www.dark-mountain.net/about-2/the-manifesto/)

Mainstream art in the West has long been about shock; about busting taboos, about Getting Noticed. This has gone on for so long that it has become common to assert that in these ironic, exhausted, post-everything times, there are no taboos left to bust. But there is one.

The last taboo is the myth of civilisation. It is built upon the stories we have constructed about our genius, our indestructibility, our manifest destiny as a chosen species. It is where our vision and our self-belief intertwine with our reckless refusal to face the reality of our position on this Earth. It has led the human race to achieve what it has achieved; and has led the planet into the age of ecocide. The two are intimately linked. We believe they must decoupled if anything is to remain.

We believe that artists – which is to us the most welcoming of words, taking under its wing writers of all kinds, painters, musicians, sculptors, poets, designers, creators, makers of things, dreamers of dreams – have a responsibility to begin the process of decoupling. We believe that, in the age of ecocide, the last taboo must be broken – and that only artists can do it.

[Reign]

And yet, even in the face of the obvious fact that we can't accelarate forever, that someday we will reach a turn called "low resources" while being too fast to even imagine making it, still some people urge us to multiply and consume, consume and multiply. Cause it's "good for the economy".

My take on it? Countries and regions who will be smart enough to develop economical plans, industrial designs for a more sustainable living on low resources as well as a smart ways to introduce it to their societies will be the winners.

If there will be any winners.

Or... the optimist are right and the priests of the new god - science, will "save us" from apocalypse by bringing salvation of new energy technologies. A "second coming" of sorts. Then we will again accelerate to the very limits of new possiblities and beyond.

Unless we'll grow wiser, and learn how to teach whole societies to be wiser.
Which doesn't seem likely.

[s.ketch]

If humans are on a massive ego trip about being the chosen species, then I think that everyone believing we are powerful enough to destroy the earth is just stroking it even more.

[Anid Maro]

If humans are on a massive ego trip about being the chosen species, then I think that everyone believing we are powerful enough to destroy the earth is just stroking it even more.

Heh, I've always thought that too. The only thing we're gonna destroy is ourselves, Earth will truck along just fine afterward. Seriously our planet in it's younger years was an anaerobic, hostile, vicious, murderous environment. When life began on our planet, the environment was hostile in ways we could only dream of matching. And yet life still grew.

Anyhow, in recent years I've been feeling like we'll all be revisiting the population growth theories of Thomas Malthus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Robert_Malthus). The only difference will be replacing food with fuel.

I think the problem is less that we're living it up too well as it is that there's just too damn many of us. We need less environmentally conscious shopping and more condoms. :)

[thesaint]

We need less environmentally conscious shopping and more condoms. :)

Exactly.

[Innocent Byproduct]

My two cents .........

There are four* monumental threats facing humanity during this very generation, and all four together point to the imminent (as in ten years or less) downward spiral of modern civilization into the convulsive throes of a relentless and irreversible demise. The severity of the demise will (as soon as it begins, in ten years or less) cause millions of people to die, resulting in severe attrition to our entire global population. Currenly at 6 billion, we will likely be reduced to well less than 2 billion in a mere 50 years. It will not be an easy transition. It will be VERY messy. The civilization-wide convulsions will last for several agonizing decades. And there is no stopping it.

No, I'm not exaggerating.

Oh and ... try to have a nice day. :)







Seriously though ... here are those *Four monumental threats:

1) Peak Oil
2) Climate Change
3) Food and Water Scarcity
4) Rampant Pollution

Each by itself would be able to deal a nasty blow to this planet. But all four together are the Perfect Storm capable of bringing down our entire civilization in less than a generation. For anyone here who doubts the very existence of only one or two of those four threats I have itemized, even if you choose to disregard just one or two, there's still the other two or three on the list lurking around the corner ready to pounce upon the human race with a big nasty mallet of reality. And if anyone here doubts the existence of all four, then I guess there's no arguing with you. (But hey, I did my best here today, right? ;) )

[Reign]

I think we realised some time ago that we are not so significant to the fate of "life on earth" as much as we think. It's not about "poor cute pandas" anymore. It's our own ass getting hurt we're talking about.

And I second the condoms.

[kelly x]

I live in the middle of nowhere and everywhere, right on the edge of the Appalachian Trail and surrounded by nature preserves. Studying animal behavior has taught me a lot about human behavior and how we as humans have become numb to our surroundings and have let technologists take a big chunk out of our environment. Our basic survival instincts have been replaced by so many devises that we can't seem to live without.
If an animal is distressed they either fight or retreat. If an animal's natural habitat is taken they (normally) move and make due with what they can. If the winter is too long the deer come and eat all of my plants and bushes.
We as humans need to adapt to the severe surroundings starting to encroach on our planet or start now to create a new preserves, stop building, stop having more than three children per household (Mormons will hate me;)) , we should learn to make due when times are slim, cut down, cut down on paid entertainment and take hikes, read, create...

This is the best quote in my opinion: "What could you do? You know the answer as well as I do. Join up, protest, propose, create. It's messy, endless and uncertain of success. Perhaps you see yourself as above this futility, but it's all we've got and all we've ever had. And sometimes it works."

[Reign]

... stop having more than three children per household...

My question is, how would you enforce or encourage it? Because a standard "let's start with ourselves" in this particular case would mean that there are less children of inteligent, informed people and more children of people who don't know better or don't give a shit. Dangerous in democracy...

But then again as it is, inteligent informed people rarely have more than 3 children (not saying that people who have - aren't, just talking about general tendencies here)

Still leaves as with the question - how to convince others.

[Vatsel]

I'm gonna get myself a post-apocalyptic power suit with cool weaponry...



nuff said.

[kelly x]

only encourage it this would be a mess and that is also a world we couldn't live in...
and thank you for asking

[kelly x]

brewin, now that's a brilliant idea, hahaha
I have a bomb shelter in my basement from wwII
I have many neighbors with 5-10 kids a household... these are not "stupid" people, but it's still happening. Everyone knows someone with more than 3 kids in America.

[SMILEFACE]

What if our purpose is to do what we do technology or not it is what we do an what we will continue ta do until we are no more what if the world earth created us to throw off its balance what if we are apart of something bigger much bigger than we can imagine an our purpose is to add chaos to what has to be nearly perfect ecosystems to bring life, like a virus (an this is not ment negatively a virus has no malice it just does what it does) or how sickness causes us to build immunities what if we are the the wild fire of nature that destroys the forests to help rebuild an make them stronger what if we are the conscience thought of the universe expressing it self what if i am tired cause i havent slept in a few days my reasoning might not make sense but we will do what we do good or bad or even both i feel its good to talk an take action an do our best but i believe that if i do things an try my best the future will never come an the present will always remain forever changing with or without me so to be lucky to feel emotion an share w/ others is a gift i would like to keep an share an just i guess go on tell until i stop

[kev ferrara]

Technology is the great balloon that lifts us and carries us above the mud. With each new gust of technology the balloon gets bigger. And civilization rises once again further from the mud.

But then we fill up the basket with more passengers until the balloon can no longer rise. That's where we are now. Stagnating, uncertain. And when we look over the side of the basket, boy that's a long way down!

But the next technology is being inflated as we speak. Lots of us are huffing and puffing into the great envelope above our heads. How high this next expansion will take us, nobody knows. Maybe into the troposphere? Maybe into the stratosphere? Or maybe we'll just go for a ride around the globe.

Either way, as long as we have the lung power and the wind, we will stay afloat, soaring in some direction or other, like the flying monkeys we are.

kev

[Reign]

Problem is - technology is no magic. Doesn't just come with greatness of human spirit. It needs tools and resources. And it did happen during the course of human civilizations that some depleted their resources to such an extent that they could no longer sustain their advancement and had to move to other lands and/or suffer downfall. However, now for the first time we have a chance of doing it on a global scale. We might even deny ourselves a possibilty of reaching to other lands, just like people who cut all the trees on their island and despite their great knowledge of woodwork can no longer build a ship because they don't have anything to build it from.

They can huff and puff into their baloon all they want, but if they run out of firewood to get some really hot air into it, they will go down.

[bloodless]

development of civilization = Destruction of humanity

Raise in population = Destruction of humanity

one thing goes up, the whole ting comes down :D

Enjoy

[SMILEFACE]

I just had an idea we should start have'n art conests that would or could help the future alot of modern technology is based off ideas from artist maybe like a chow you can sign up if you want or not yer choice but ideas are what bring things to life maybe even grow into a web site with a similar format as ca only make the world a better place . Org er something contests chould be anything from conceptualizing efficient modes of travel to save'n energy or even space ships (endless probabilities) once it is started the art could help inspire people to create these things in the real world i believe something like this could really help push us in a different direction an allow us to help in our way an a positive one just an idea i dont know how it could work but when people work together we can do anything ....sorry after i stay up fer a few days i kinda crash then get all hyper an no i dont do drugs just pizza cherry coke an cigarettes

[thesaint]

I just had an idea we should start have'n art conests that would or could help the future alot of modern technology is based off ideas from artist maybe like a chow you can sign up if you want or not yer choice but ideas are what bring things to life maybe even grow into a web site with a similar format as ca only make the world a better place . (...)

It's aways a good idea to draw, but I think that you idea is TOO complex. Let's just do some art for now and post some sketches! I vote for a theme like "Humanity last hope" or something like that.

[polydrawer]

i really love how people think they are so smart that they know we are destroying ourselves without acknowledging that the very things that they think are destroying our planet could actually help it too.

We were born as doomsday thinkers and we are intrigued by the very thought of it so we fantasize about how mighty and powerful we tiny humans are and are able to destroy anything (let's compare us as a species to the size of the entire universe shall we :o)

Nature has it's way of balancing everything out so it can keep on living and if it gets tired of us we will eventually be removed from the face of this planet.

[kelly x]

I'm in Granny!! Also The Saint, yes the simpler the better... I'm not sold on the title, it's almost there but I think it needs a more proactive title? I can't really think of one at the moment... But this would be interesting. This is so strange to me because I've had two shows "Bringing The World Together Through Art" This title is way too long but this is maybe the basic premise?? And so is yours The Saint.

[SMILEFACE]

haha YALL RRROOCCKKKKKK!!!!!!!

[thesaint]

I agree Kelly! I think your tittle fits very well "Bringing The World Together Through Art" :D I'm in! Well, if someone have another title that fits here, please, fell free to share.
Should we post the images here or should we create a topic somewhere else?

[VulgarDragon]

*Four[/I][/B] monumental threats:

1) Peak Oil
2) Climate Change
3) Food and Water Scarcity
4) Rampant Pollution


I thought they were the Four Horsemen of Apocalypse.

Seriously, I agree that those four factors will eventually do us in. That is one of the drawbacks of civilization-- take away the natural cycle of death (diseases), and we multiply like rabbits. Factor that in with our ever increasing demand and greed for comfort and luxury...and you have a recipe for disaster. Our civilization hangs on a delicate balance...resources that we depend on is becoming scarce. An sudden and abrupt shortage in oil will literally bring the entire civilization to a grinding halt...majority of our food, water, and power production is virtually dependent on that essential energy source. Take that away, and we no longer have means to farm or transport food, let alone provide power for hospitals, industries, and so forth.

Aside from natural disasters, plagues, or all-out global wars that could also happen, our dependence on oil will prove to be our ultimate undoing. While we are trying to move away from dependence on oil, it is not happening fast enough to avert the crisis if it comes down to that.

While our population is burgeoning and on verge of becoming 7 billion, I am no fan of the Malthusian method of population control using forced abortions and eugenics. I don't think that anyone has the right to decide who lives or dies, let alone the government. The only solution is that if people, governments, and industries work together to make better use of resources, educate people on their responsibilities. Yeah, right, like that would ever happen....there are way too many greedy and irresponsible people.

[aefx]

stop building, stop having more than three children per household (Mormons will hate me;))
Sounds like this book I'm reading right now where the author tries to anticipate what society will be like when over population forces countries to adopt laws on the number of births couples can have and who can conceive based upon the probability for certain diseases in their genetic make-up. Was written in the 60s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_on_zanzibar

[Stark]

Here's what I got from the reading and my own musings of what we can do or not do.

As the authors and everyone has stated previously, we are exhausting what little resources we have left at an alarming rate. There are only so much more this planet can take before it buckles under the enormous pressure that is the human species and the needs that it requires to continue to sustain itself. While there are certain things that can be done to satiate our hunger for "more", we steadily only talk about them, post about them, or mutter them to ourselves without any action at all.
We as artists are the first line of defense in trying to slow this acceleration down. Our words, images, and abilities to convey a message are not being used effectively to bring attention to what is currently going on. Ignorance is bliss for most of the human race, leading more and more people into following its wake. We as artists should be using are gifts to inform the mass population as to what is happening, what has happened, and what will happen if we do not sit down and seriously think and talk about this on a global scale.
Global summits of politicians who think they have the best interests of their respective nations in mind are not doing us any service. The one goal that they have is to insure that we as their sheep are not attacked and that the resources that we need to live our comfortable lives go uninterrupted. China is currently burning 50% of its oil that it imports daily to try and keep its citizens and inhabitants alive. America is losing its foothold as a global power and keeper of the status quo as we continue to let more and more illegal aliens into our country and use what limited resources we have to make sure they live comfortable as well. Britain is becoming more and more centralized via the government. Africa is wasting away due to war, disease, and famine.
Industrialized civilizations believe that they have it good, thinking that we are better than so called third-world countries, when in fact we are becoming third-world. Our ways of living are exponentially creating a disparage from what we can afford to consume and what we believe we can consume. Nobel prize laureates are stumped on how to effectively get attention brought to a global scale about this situation, while our governments believe that they need to continue to spend money, expand their base population.

Anyways, I was beginning to ramble. Hope some of that made sense to some. (Would go further, but roommate is hovering over my shoulder so he can get to facebook.)

[Innocent Byproduct]

Okay, I just read more than one post here that tried to argue that "technology can save us." And I sadly disagree. I further assert that such a view holds an inaccurate view of technology, and an inflated view of technology's capabilities.

My view of technology is this:




Technology is merely an elevated platform upon which a civilization rests. And that platform is held up by three legs (making it a three-legged stool). Those three legs are:

1) Knowledge
2) Resources
3) Energy

So, the platform holding up a Stone Age Civilization can rightfully be called a platform of Stone Age Technology. And that platform requires the underlying support of the following three legs:

A) The leg of KNOWLEDGE on how to make stone tools. How to hunt animals and butcher the animals to get sinews and tendons out of them. How to gather certain types of workable wood. How to gather certain types of grasses and weave them together into mats and huts and nets. (etc) Possible even knowledge of fire, how to start it, how to use it, and how to keep it under (relative) control.

B) The leg of RESOURECS of the right kinds of stones in the region. The right kinds of wood in the region. The right kids of wild as animals in the region with the right length and strength to their sinews and tendons which can be used in making tools.

C) The leg of ENERGY to get all of the above done (and the energy typically used by Stone Age people would be human muscle power, sometimes animal power, and even the energy from an open flame).

If you take away just one of those three legs, then the three-legged stool (the platform of technology) comes tumbling down, and so does the civilization which rests upon it.

All subsequent "ages" since the Stone Age have likewise developed their own technological platforms, each perched upon three similar (yet progressively more complex) legs of Knowledge, Resources, and Energy. The Iron Age, the Bronze Age, etc. Different ages, each with three legs supporting them -- legs of different compositions, but three legs all the same.

As for our modern predicament, we have built for ourselves a technological platform that we've come to call Industrial Age Technology. And that platform supports our Industrial Age Civilization, perched upon its own three legs of Knowledge, Resources, and Energy. We of this civilization are about to lose the reliability of our primary energy supply, which comes from the resource of oil. When the "Energy Leg" starts wobbling, it will take very little to bring the whole enchilada crashing down.



As for more than one post that also insisted "We artists need to employ our gifts to spread the word." I wholeheartedly agree (I subscribe to the concept of "The Fourth Estate" which includes the press and the entertainment community.) So here's an offering from my current novel WIP where I try to spread the word:





“Look,” I sighed while scratching my head, focusing my gaze on a nearby flower bed, “Captain Warren (or Colonel Warren, forgive me) was a great man -- not just a good man, a GREAT man. And the world is a lesser place now without him. But in spite of whatever he might have thought, here in the twenty-first century we’ve reached a level of technology so sophisticated that it can help us through whatever crisis may be coming.”

“No we don’t,” she seemed saddened at my conclusion. “Technology can do many things, but the one thing that no technology can ever do is function without energy. All forms of technology are useless without an energy source to set that technology into motion. A lawnmower is no good without a half gallon of gas in it. A tractor on a farm is worthless without five gallons of diesel in it. And forgive me for borrowing from a fictional television show, but even the USS Enterprise --as brilliant a piece of technology that it is-- is just a useless hunk of metal floating lifelessly through space without its dilithium crystals.”

“Technology is the future,” I shook my head, not even sure where I had come up with such a trite sounding phrase.

“No,” she said sadly. “You have it backward: technology is merely the cart, but energy is the horse. Ten thousands carts are nothing but a lot of useless trash cluttering up the landscape, but ten thousand horses will win a war. Ten thousand horses will plow millions of acres of farm land. Ten thousand horses will transport goods across the continent and keep your nation’s economy alive. Ten thousand carts are just a worthless waste of wood without something to make those carts move. It’s no accident that when we talk about how much power an automobile engine is capable of, we measure it in units called ‘horsepower.’ But that measurement is only what the engine can do after you put the gasoline into it. Deprive the engine of the gas and all you have left is a rusting collection of pistons disintegrating in a junk yard.”

“That’s not what I--” I didn’t even know how to excuse myself or who to blame for my inability to accept these ideas of hers, so I groped for my words, getting angry at myself. “--not what I was ... told ... in ... in school,” I finally said, and after I was able to spit that out I felt quite stupid for blaming my ignorance on my school teachers of all people. “It’s not what any book or magazine I’ve ever read has said,” I continued to make my appeal to the presumed reliability of various other corners of society that I thought could be reasonably relied upon for accurate information. “And it’s not even what any news show or TV show or movie --even Star Trek-- has ever said. Technology has always been held up by teachers and journalists and even Hollywood as the key to civilization, not energy. ‘Technological superiority’ has always been the phrase invoked when discussing military strength and industrial power and our hopes for the future. As for ‘energy superiority,’ I don’t think I’ve ever even heard anyone anywhere mention such a thing. And I don’t even know if the expression ‘energy superiority’ even exists in anyone’s vocabulary. How can there be such a lack of--” I didn’t even know what the correct word might have been, so I hesitated as I tried to pinpoint it, “--such a lack of ... of awareness on all this by the people in our society who are supposed to know about this sort of thing? Why do they all keep talking up technology decade after decade, but completely leave out any treatment on the issue of energy?”

“There isn’t one single nation in the history of humanity,” she began a new leg of her argument, “that came to greatness due to superior technology. The true winners found in human history achieved greatness due to the superior harnessing and employment of human and animal labor, or else the superior harnessing and employment of powerful energy supplies. Technology merely grows out of our increasing sophistication in energy usage, not the other way around. And once we of the twenty-first century start coming up short on our one and only energy supply, we’ll be forced to return to the harnessing of human and animal labor -- which really means we will return to the enslavement of human and animal labor.”

[HunterKiller_]

Started out as an interesting reading, then quickly turned into a couple of bickering children.

Two 'environmentalist' who can't even come to an agreement on how to save the environment/society. No wonder the world is collapsing.

[Harkins]

I need a beer.

[kelly x]

What happened to bringing the World together through art?? That is what this forum is known for... artist's. Writer's are artist's too... keep it simple though or you'll loose me, hahaha!!

[SMILEFACE]

HEY KELLY IM NOT A GOOD ENOUGH WRITER TO START A THREAD THAT WOULD APPEAL TO PEOPLE BUT I WAS THINK'N LIKE THE CHEER ME UP THREAD BUT MORE LIKE ART WE CREATE THAT CAN HELP INSPIRE THE FUTURE ..like ANYTHING ANY ONE CAN THINK OF THAT MIGHT HELP FROM THEIR OWN BACKYARD 'HELP'N THEIR NEIGHBORS ELDERLY HOMELESS ECT' TO GLOBALLY' BUT NOT LIMITED COULD BE ANYTHING DESIGNING ECO FRIENDLY CONTRAPTIONS OR THINGS INDIVIDUALS CAN DO KEEP'N AN OPEN TOPIC W/ THE FOCUS TO HELP OR INSPIRE CHANGE THE IDEA IS THAT PEOPLE HAVE IDEAS

I STRONGLY FEEL THEIR WILL BE NO ONE PERSON OR ONE SOLUTION TO SAVE ALL' ONE FIX ALL' RESET BUTTON' BUT I THINK IT CAN WERK WITH PEOPLE WORK'N TOGETHER AN MULTI SOLUTIONS WHEN WE WORK TOGETHER THERE IS AN INFINITE POSSIBILITY TO WHAT WE CAN DO EVEN SIMPLY BEING NICE POLITE OR RESPECTFUL TO PEOPLE HAS A TREMENDOUS EFFECT ON THE WORLD

MY IDEA WOULD NOT TO BE TO FIX THE WORLD OR MAKE IT PERFECT (CAUSE I DUN THINK ITS BROKE OR WE ARE MONSTERS )BUT WE COULD ALWAYS TRY TO IMPROVE TO HELP PREPARE OR CONQUER CHALLENGES WE FACE AN STILL RETAIN OUR HUMANITY AN ONE OF OUR MOST VALUABLE GIFTS THE ABILITY TO FEEL EMOTION

MY WISH WOULD BE TO INSPIRE CHANGE

[SMILEFACE]

hey kelly an the saint what if we brought up the idea fer the topic for the Battle of the sexes comp not sure how that would werk but it could get alot of people to do it mmmWWWHHHHAAAAHHHAAAAA:devil::devil::devil:

[kelly x]

There are many good ideas here now, the solar and oil are clutch as are many of the concerns that have been written already... these can all be painted.

Granny, I think we should try do do a challenge in the challenge section.
It could be something like Dueling Worlds: The World with no change and the World with changes people come up with.
I picture the World with no change as a total disaster, over populated, polluted, crime everywhere because people are so poor they just need to survive. The rich get richer the poor are the drones, there will be no middle class....
The World with change will unify, pool together to create peace, everyone gets health care, all religions get along, we save the wildlife, atmosphere, clean the oceans...
These are my view points many will be the same subject matter but all of the art will be different, that's why it works with art...
I'm up for two pieces... if there would be enough time to do them... we should spam the internet with all of our pieces starting here!!! I vote yes!!

[Shard]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8218000/8218335.stm

here's some good news about global warming..might not be the end after all. :)
nature and life finds a way in the most extreme conditions.

[kelly x]

Shard, That article made my day!! Great article!! :):):)
There are two schools of thought on GW anyways, natural cycles and the earths axis vs Global warming due to o-zone layer being destroyed. I'm torn on what to think, both sides have vast points and theories. What do you think.

[Peter Coene]

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/kary_mullis_on_what_scientists_do.html

[Derek the Usurper]

This wouldn't be a huge problem if we didn't have the ridiculously poor opinion of nuclear power that environmentalists and oil companies created with their propaganda in the first place. If more funding had been going into recycling of radioactive waste research for the last 3 decades, we would have a near flawless energy source that could potentially be used in cars at some point.

[Shard]

I think to understand the matter a wide range of views should be considered..but we dont get a whole lot of different opinions these days..
i dont wanna turn into a conspiracy nutter but there are so many groups of interests who want you to believe GW is caused by this and that rather than letting the scientists do their job alone.. its something we should keep in mind.
the wiki on "global warming controversy" is very interesting.

this documentary you might have heard of is also interesting "the great global warming swindle" aka "apocalypse my arse"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TqqWJugXzs&feature=related

dont take it too seriously as its been ruled not impartial..its definately very controversial. there is a massive wiki page on this case you might wanna read too, still makes some good points and its worth the watch.
if anything you get another side of the debate wich you always should cosider anyway before making your mind.

[Innocent Byproduct]

I'm a writer. So I write ... a lot ... :blahblah: ... maybe too much.

(Sorry for being long-winded, guys. :bashful: Won't happen again. And special thanks to Kelly for being so cool. :) )

.

[VulgarDragon]

Knowing this I think the answer to the problem is technology, existing technology even and the future generations of it.. if you look a power generating windmill the answer is too clear in fact.. if only we had planted a million of these before we planted down all those thermal plants. A combined effort from all alternate energy sources could really cover the entire world energy supply if you put money in it. It's just lobbyists convincing every politician it's not possible. I think when the money finally gets there, when the big companies smell the possible profit it's gonna go faster than you think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photovoltaic_array#_note-0



http://michaelgallagher.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/solar-thermal-power-bb001.jpg

The biggest area is what needs to be covered for the entire world, the second one is europe..

Sounds like a good idea, however, there are still problems. For one, the solar technology we have now is expensive and also not permanent...solar panels have a limited lifespan before they have to be replaced. It's mind boggling to put out millions of panels over that large expanse, only to replace them all in few years. Also, the biggest significant hurdle to this idea is global cooperation...it would take cooperation from several nations to carry this out...not to mention the local desert tribes and the environmental groups. Paving out kilometers of desert area wouldn't sit well with those groups, but who cares...it's mostly useless desert and there is a lot of thermal energy there that can be exploited.

Suppose they use that expanse to put out thousands of mirrors that will focus sunlight on furnaces that generate steam power, which in turn generate electricity...hmmm?

[kelly x]

Innocent Byproduct, Thanks;), New England, I live in New England too... you can live in my bomb shelter with me, haha!

[ChristianWeeks]

I think a lot of you underestimate the power of human ingenuity, and, quite frankly, I can't accept the fact that our planet is going down the shitter "in less than 10 years" as Innocent Byproduct said. Ofcourse our reliance on resources like oil is dangerous, but its not like it will disappear over night and all of the sudden theres no way to get around. As there becomes less and less of it, there will be more and more of other methods of transportation. Solar and electric powered cars have existed for a while now, and are not yet practical, but that is only because there isn't really any need for a widely consumed solar or electric car. I think the same goes for most other things that may be wasteful now: When the need to change arises, we will adapt. All we need is a sign or a check to wake people up. And, quite honestly, I think its a despicable exaggeration to think that this check will be some worldwide catastrophe that will claim 5 billion human lives. There will be famine and drought, hunger and starvation, but there won't be something like a massive Day After Tomorrow storm which will render half of the earth's landmass inhospitable to human life. The thing I am most worried about is a volcanic super-eruption, which is independent and unrelated to the endeavors of mankind.

I'm actually surprised that the majority of the people on this thread are buying into it. Our species and planet may be headed in the wrong direction, but I don't think they beyond redemption, and I don't expect to see the world turn into wasteland any time soon. Call me naive or narrow minded, but I have a problem with accepting that the world will crumble before I'm even thirty years old.

[Moai]

Started out as an interesting reading, then quickly turned into a couple of bickering children.

That's what I thought, too. Their initial statements were interesting and informative, then it devolved into a Lounge-style argument over word choices and such.

[ChristianWeeks]

I think to understand the matter a wide range of views should be considered..but we dont get a whole lot of different opinions these days..
i dont wanna turn into a conspiracy nutter but there are so many groups of interests who want you to believe GW is caused by this and that rather than letting the scientists do their job alone.. its something we should keep in mind.
the wiki on "global warming controversy" is very interesting.

this documentary you might have heard of is also interesting "the great global warming swindle" aka "apocalypse my arse"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TqqWJugXzs&feature=related

dont take it too seriously as its been ruled not impartial..its definately very controversial. there is a massive wiki page on this case you might wanna read too, still makes some good points and its worth the watch.
if anything you get another side of the debate wich you always should cosider anyway before making your mind.

Despite my initial thoughts, I actually watched the whole thing. It certainly makes a lot of logical points; the only thing I thought was sketchy was the end where it talked about how the idea of global warming prevents 3rd world countries from developing.

[Crass]

I think self destruction is an entirely fitting demise for the human race. We have been working towards it since there first were people. Instant and personal gratification has always been more important than anything long term, it's fundamentally human and it won't change even in the face of an apocalypse.

[Black Spot]

Bring back rationing so people have to really use what they have.

I'm wearing 30 yo flip-flops as I type. I also have a freezer that is over 40 yo; I've had newer ones but they don't last - consider the wastage in having to replace the new ones with the additional energy used on my old one - I think my old one still wins as i haven't lost any food and damaged the floor.

[VulgarDragon]

Bring back rationing so people have to really use what they have.

I'm wearing 30 yo flip-flops as I type. I also have a freezer that is over 40 yo; I've had newer ones but they don't last - consider the wastage in having to replace the new ones with the additional energy used on my old one - I think my old one still wins as i haven't lost any food and damaged the floor.

Agreed. Most of the stuff I own are brought used. I see so many good furniture and other stuff ending up in dumpster or curbside...it is amazing how many people throw away perfectly good stuff away just because they want something new and sparkly. I prefer older models because they are more robust built and less likely to break down.

I think there is a reason why so many newer things don't last as long is because many companies cut down on quality to save on costs and maximize profits by using cheaper materials and cheaper manufacturing using unskilled workers. Besides, when the product breaks down after few years, they hope people will come back and buy more of their products to keep them in business.

[kelly x]

along these lines Black Spot... I tried to donate my new and used DVD's to my library and they would not take them due to the fact that they said Blue Ray was going to be the next great thing... I refuse to get a blue ray player because my dvd player is perfectly great!! What will people do throw them in land fill of course and this makes me sick.
Also when I bought my computer for work the guy offered me a free printer, I declined because I already have a printer... more land fill for perfectly good items.
They are making appliances inferior in order to sale more too this is a fact. I think the life span is about 5-7 years now instead of 20-30 years...

[VulgarDragon]

I still buy and watch movies on VHS. I mean, why not....they practically cost next to nothing and work just fine. I don't get blu-ray either and DVD works just fine. I don't think you can see the difference between blu-ray and DVD unless you upgrade your tv to one of those newer HD tvs. I recently brought a huge 36 inch tv and it cost only $30...it works just fine except for the remote and weights a ton. If it wasn't at the secondhand store it would have been in a landfill somewhere. It's just crazy.

[bat]

I am going to start in on the cannibalism now so that it is a smoother transition when the time comes.

Having eaten enough mystery meals overseas in questionable countries I probably began cannibalism many years ago anyway.

[Harkins]

I am going to start in on the cannibalism now so that it is a smoother transition when the time comes.

Having eaten enough mystery meals overseas in questionable countries I probably began cannibalism many years ago anyway.

lol :)