Grand Central Academy: Day 1 of 5

[OmenSpirits]

I suck! drawing with charcoal!!!!:wtf:

...stay tuned...:lifedrawing:

[OmenSpirits]

I suck! drawing with charcoal!!!!:wtf:

...stay tuned...:lifedrawing:

The info is good ( a lot of it I was already privy to I. AM. A RESEARCH. GOD! now if I could only apply such knowledge to charcoals, hm...), the teacher is good , jon Dematin, & the class is a fair size.

My anatomy is good, I draw too heavy when using the charcoal, I know a great deal about the mechanics of drawing...

I still suck, just not as much and am not as aggravated by my suckage.

...stay tuned...:lifedrawing:

[JS Neo]

Haa some images will be great :) Have fun !!

[arttorney]

Yeah. Just put a bit on there and push it around with your fingers and blending stump.. It's almost liquid, and responds to the eraser. No worries.

[OmenSpirits]

The info is good ( a lot of it I was already privy to I. AM. A RESEARCH. GOD! now if I could only apply such knowledge to charcoals, hm...), the teacher is good , jon Dematin, & the class is a fair size.

My anatomy is good, I draw too heavy when using the charcoal, I know a great deal about the mechanics of drawing...

I still suck, just not as much and am not as aggravated by my suckage.

...stay tuned...:lifedrawing:

The technique in charcoal drawing is that of Charles Bargue traditional style, not the tonal, to which I thought prior.

Revelation! I still suck at charcoal, but can use Conte very easily. As far as I was informed, charcoal is very forgiving (too dam forgiving if you ask me) while Conte is not so forgiving and is harder to erase. Irony indeed that I can draw better with it. Always was the one to learn the best doing it the hard way. I'm going to start sing Conte more, see where it takes me.

Remembrance!

While trying to work my way through a a charcoal drawing, thinking my way through it, it finally dawned on me why I was there, which I forgot because I got caught up trying to draw in the atelier art style.
I didn't take this intensive to learn to draw in that style, I took this intensive to add another piece of information to my mental file to be incorporated into the rest, thereby furthering my growth into my own technique. Another tool for the quest for questions to answers/answers to questions that I am on.

Once I realized that, all the angst and pressure I place on myself seemed to go away and I just went with what I could learn. (and I point EVERYONE TO HERE AND TSOFA.ORG for great info).

Current mood: Feeling pretty good

...stay tuned... (oh, and those attempts at charcoal are NEVER seeing the light of day. They're all failed attempts and nothing to see. But the conte,that will see the light of day!:yayca: )

[Hyskoa]

Charcoal being a more forgiving medium means you can keep correcting more easily. And unless you know every form of every object perfectly and know exactly how to render it, stick with charcoal for learning. Conté is mostly for getting a specific effect or after you've done several months/years worth of practice with charcoal and are ready to move on and make more professional work. And even in that aspect, charcoal can still look very professional.

[OmenSpirits]

Charcoal being a more forgiving medium means you can keep correcting more easily. And unless you know every form of every object perfectly and know exactly how to render it, stick with charcoal for learning. Conté is mostly for getting a specific effect or after you've done several months/years worth of practice with charcoal and are ready to move on and make more professional work. And even in that aspect, charcoal can still look very professional.
But mentally, I've always taken the hard road. In every way in life (glutton) but, I've found my ability to learn and retain increases with the difficulty of the task. Hell, I'm in an atelier intensive, only after a year (and two months) of being able to draw half-way decent (by my standards) and drawing with that technique, is a BITCH!

Always the hard way. :) :yayca:

[Hyskoa]

Doing it the hard way will mean you're trying to do either very short poses, since you'll keep restarting every time you make a mistake, or fighting so much with the tools at hand to correct your mistakes that you learn more about the tools than about the basics of creating art.

Now the first method means you'll never have any experience with long work where you search your way through shapes and learn from copying and adjusting reality.
And the second method means you'll become amazing at conté and will have all kinds of effects, but on a faulty basic understanding of how to design a picture. Making all that experience the equivalent of misusing filters in photoshop to hide the lack of knowledge in painting.

Work smart and hard, not just hard.

[OmenSpirits]

The technique in charcoal drawing is that of Charles Bargue traditional style, not the tonal, to which I thought prior.

Revelation! I still suck at charcoal, but can use Conte very easily. As far as I was informed, charcoal is very forgiving (too dam forgiving if you ask me) while Conte is not so forgiving and is harder to erase. Irony indeed that I can draw better with it. Always was the one to learn the best doing it the hard way. I'm going to start sing Conte more, see where it takes me.

Remembrance!

While trying to work my way through a a charcoal drawing, thinking my way through it, it finally dawned on me why I was there, which I forgot because I got caught up trying to draw in the atelier art style.
I didn't take this intensive to learn to draw in that style, I took this intensive to add another piece of information to my mental file to be incorporated into the rest, thereby furthering my growth into my own technique. Another tool for the quest for questions to answers/answers to questions that I am on.

Once I realized that, all the angst and pressure I place on myself seemed to go away and I just went with what I could learn. (and I point EVERYONE TO HERE AND TSOFA.ORG for great info).

Current mood: Feeling pretty good

...stay tuned... (oh, and those attempts at charcoal are NEVER seeing the light of day. They're all failed attempts and nothing to see. But the conte,that will see the light of day!:yayca: )

I won't learn how to use Charcoal in a week. I'd least take a five or six months just to get used to it. Conte is more accessible for me to use. Just that simple.

Oh, and I don't use PS, won't use it until I know fully how to draw from pencil and paper, so the comparison to filters made me laugh.

In the week's time that I've been doing this intensive, I've learned a great deal on what I need to do, how to go about it, and at what level I'm at with other mediums and what works for me at the present time. I won't learn anything about how to use it if I don't have a full grasp of drawing in graphite, to which, I do not.

Period.

And just for the record. NOTHING I do at this time is me creating art. It's me learning how to get there. My intent is NOT to create half-assed art when my intent and skill-level are not to the point where I can call it such, and that is what matters. Whether I feel what I do is creating art.

Right now, I am building a foundation. I'm working on understanding what and how. NOTHING I do now is art. It's learning without the intent to add any of myself or anything to the illustration other than getting it right.

At this point, unlike most whom label themselves as artist without a full understanding and comprehension of the skill necessary to be such, I am not an artist, I am creative, what I create IS not art.

It's practice.

When I get there, I'll let you know. :lifedrawing:

....stay tuned...

[Ninjerk]

I won't learn how to use Charcoal in a week. I'd least take a five or six months just to get used to it.

It sounds like you need to do more drawings with it.

[OmenSpirits]

I won't learn how to use Charcoal in a week. I'd least take a five or six months just to get used to it. Conte is more accessible for me to use. Just that simple.

Oh, and I don't use PS, won't use it until I know fully how to draw from pencil and paper, so the comparison to filters made me laugh.

In the week's time that I've been doing this intensive, I've learned a great deal on what I need to do, how to go about it, and at what level I'm at with other mediums and what works for me at the present time. I won't learn anything about how to use it if I don't have a full grasp of drawing in graphite, to which, I do not.

Period.

And just for the record. NOTHING I do at this time is me creating art. It's me learning how to get there. My intent is NOT to create half-assed art when my intent and skill-level are not to the point where I can call it such, and that is what matters. Whether I feel what I do is creating art.

Right now, I am building a foundation. I'm working on understanding what and how. NOTHING I do now is art. It's learning without the intent to add any of myself or anything to the illustration other than getting it right.

At this point, unlike most whom label themselves as artist without a full understanding and comprehension of the skill necessary to be such, I am not an artist, I am creative, what I create IS not art.

It's practice.

When I get there, I'll let you know. :lifedrawing:

....stay tuned...

Said my goodbyes, and Jon DeMartin thanked me for the info I'd given him on ZBrush because he found what was being done in the digital media to be very interesting. I gave him my email and told him anykind of information he needs, pdf. program info, He could shoot m an email since the one thing I'd had proven over the course of a week, was that my knowledge and comprehension of how to illustrate was very strong.

We shook hands, and I returned to my hotel room, watching the Barefoot Contessa, drying my sketchbook off (don't ask :( ) and about to go have dinner-then visit my best friend at his place of employ-a bar.

Conclusion:

Many answers have been found, and many more questions have come about, and my journey still continues...

It's definitely given me more to search for, and I'd do the intensive again. Even though my lacking in abilities with Charcoal gave me great frustration in the beginning, it also brought me to a level of critical thinking during the process of trying that has given me new insights into why I do, what I am looking for, and how I plan to achieve...but that what always is temporary with answering on quest and providing more to be answered. Charcoal is on the list of things to explore, and will be at length as I expand my skill set and knowledge/experience.

It's a hell of a quest I find myself on, searching for true expression, and true understanding of self. And that, is a goal most worthy to try and accomplish.

Maybe I'll try sculpting class?

End of days :lifedrawing:

[Craig D]

That was sure informative for the rest of us.

[OmenSpirits]

That was sure informative for the rest of us.
What? You want access to what was taught?

Fine. You'll know what I took the time back in '08 to research and it's readily available in 3 places, two of which you may already be familiar with.

Are you readY?

Go to: http://www.tsofa.com/viewtopic.php?t=234&sid=26cfc6e3fc749f80c2e33f71317fd130

and: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60746 go to his site, download the 30 page PDF which I did away go

and finally buy this book and study it from beginning to end:

Charles Bargue and Jean-Leon Gerome: Drawing Course


There's the info that was covered.

[Craig D]

look at my avatar

[Samuel Gray]

i love charcoal

[OmenSpirits]

look at my avatar
nice. :D