character artist without nude life drawing

[JParrilla]

Hey guys Im sure this has been discussed.. but my question isnt what to draw If I dont have access to life drawing classes.. its will my progress be hindered?
Basically I go to college in upstate new york.. and if anybody is familiar with the city of Binghamton.. you know life drawing classes are not something youre going to find. Im only home for 2 months out of the year so most of my time is spent up there. I know the obvious alternatives to life drawing.. I can do sketches of people outside.. which will obviously be short, sketchy and fully clothed. I can do self portraits and anatomy studies in the mirror. I can get friends to pose for me.. which I doubt will last more than a half hour and I doubt will be naked :) I can study masters and anatomy books. And of course I can work from photos for anytime time frame I want.. from gesture to fully polished piece. My question is... by not having the traditional model experience.. with long poses and short poses.. will my end result as a character artist be hindered. Realistically most of my long drawings will be from photos.. due to the fact that I will rarely get someone to let me draw them for more than an hour. And drawing myself in the mirror will only last so long before I need a new body to draw. I always think that if I draw from photos too much itll hurt me in some way later on. So what do you guys think? In the end I really have no choice but to work with whats available. I know Marko Djurdjevic didnt do life studies of the figure and he turned out just fine :) If only I knew what the hell he was studying other than Hogarth..

[Brushcommander]

You can always use a mirror

[Kjesta]

Maybe get friends to pose in swimwear? Bikinis show you enough off a woman's anatomy without having her feel "naked". And guys should be alright with no upper clothes anyway.

Is there no next bigger city near you? Usually the big cities have life drawing classes.

Another thing that's useful is to draw statues. At least here in my area, we have heaps of those greek-type statues or busts or fountains, and they're pretty much anatomically correct. Of course, they don't teach you much about colour and they don't move either, but it's more 3D than photographs in any case.

[JParrilla]

well the nearest city is about an hour away.. If I have a car I can do it. Thanks for the suggestions. Im going to get some anatomical casts and skeletons to help as well. Im trying to resort to photos as least often as possible

[MiniGoth]

Sympathies. Bingamton IS the 'big city' in that area, if I remember correctly - somewhere between Albany and Buffalo, ya?

It's a college with no life drawing class? There aren't any arts communities up there that offer it?

[Zazerzs]

watch your Vilppu DvD's!

yeah not having a real life model around stinks, but as you 've written there are a ton of other things that you can do in preparation for when you do have a life model in front of you.

Keep up with all the studies you have been, and maybe a few others like animal drawing (got any horses around out there in the country? we all share anatomy and seeing it on different forms can reinforce what you know about the human side.)

and any drawing from life to help train your eyes, still life renders, if its not supper humid outside go draw a tree or landscape or plant .. the list never ends.

[JParrilla]

minigoth - yep thats the city :) Well I think there is a life drawing class but im not sure if its nude. And if it is.. all the seats are always taken right away because kids take it to get an aesthetics credit. Id love to just sit in though and draw.. I obviously dont want credit.

zazerzs - thanks man.. ya there are alternatives as always.. I have to do what I can. I have more resources than some other people so I might as well use them the best I can

[J Wilson]

I think you can learn enough from those other methods to not hit a brick wall. Progress might be a little slower at times, but keep at it and I'm sure you can learn all you need.

[arttorney]

Is there a swimming or diving team at your college? Gymnastics? (not perfect I know, just another suggestion)

[Droid]

Google Images naked people. ;)

You don't have to be there next to the model, but then you could move round then, find a good angle etc.

Drawing nudes is vital, but you can easily find artist stock on the internet for such things.

;)

[JParrilla]

yes we have a team in just about anything you can think of :)

And yes I know photos are available.. but photos arent the same as real life.. even if you get all different angles.. Photos simplify things for you.. shapes are more easily seen.. shadows and light are already placed and easy to read. Its just not the sammee

[OmenSpirits]

Upstate...ew...last time I was upstate was at colgate university.

When in doubt, porn.

[Xeon_OND]

Just curious, but when learning human anatomy, we gotta also learn to draw nude people and the nether regions?

I'm not sure if learning nudity is important since usually, when we draw cartoons or life drawings or scenes, we don't need to bother about whether the private parts etc look right or not since they're usually covered by clothes (unless one is intending to specialize in nude drawings).

Of course, I'm a total noob and is kinda ignorant about many art things.

[Zazerzs]

you don't have to .. but why wouldn't you want to :)

but seriously nude life drawing teaches so much about drawing, surface anatomy, shading, design, training you eye ect. It improves your drawing ability by testing all that you know about the human form and being able to successfully render that on a piece of paper or other medium.

[MiniGoth]

It's not about drawing the 'naughty bits' so much as seeing where each piece actually falls in a particular pose, how the muscles work together, etc.

[Lamp]

Just curious, but when learning human anatomy, we gotta also learn to draw nude people and the nether regions?

I'm not sure if learning nudity is important since usually, when we draw cartoons or life drawings or scenes, we don't need to bother about whether the private parts etc look right or not since they're usually covered by clothes (unless one is intending to specialize in nude drawings).

Of course, I'm a total noob and is kinda ignorant about many art things.

How are you going to learn anatomy, if the anatomy you're trying to learn is covered up by cloth? No, you don't need to learn to draw the "nether regions" (unless you want to :D) but if you want to draw a human, you'd better learn the rest of it.

[DavePalumbo]

if you can get together a few friends from school who are also interested and willing to chip in money and maybe a space to work (if you don't have one at home), you can alway hire your own model and DIY. Look through craigslist, ad in the local or school paper, ask around, you should be able to put together something if you're motivated.

Also as a base rate, models for life drawing typically make about 15/hr, so if you can get at least 2-4 other people it won't cost you too much and you have full control over time, lighting, and poses

[Xeon_OND]

Lol, thanks for enlightening me. :)

Um, 2 more questions regarding these nude models stuff, since I never attended any art school and never will have the money for those. :(

1) When a model, either male or female, poses nude in front of the class, are there some guys or girls who like, give each other nudges / giggles and all that?

2) I assume the mode undresses in front of the class?

Now, I respect art and all and these are questions of curiosity.

[JParrilla]

thanks Dave.. thats definitely something to consider.. I just need to find some ppl to do it with me.

and Xeon.. nope its not like that at all. Its usually a very mature situation.. even the younger people take it seriously

[Kjesta]

Xeon, I've never once seen a "giggle and nudge" person in my - comparably short - ten months of life-drawing. Aand when you look for people to draw with, you can generally judge yourself if they're pre-pubescent idiots or serious about it.) And my experience has been that the model undresses in a separate room or bathroom and then puts on a bathrobe or something else that's easy and quick to take of so they can put it on in between poses and stuff.

And concerning naughty bits, I've usually always just done squiggles or very general shapes :bashful: At least for the guys, there's not so much naughty about the girls. But err, yeah... I don't mind private parts so much because they're just bits of the body, but I've got this horror vision that someone flips through my sketchbook (as in, non-arty person) and just sees all these penises :dur:

[Black Spot]

But err, yeah... I don't mind private parts so much because they're just bits of the body, but I've got this horror vision that someone flips through my sketchbook (as in, non-arty person) and just sees all these penises :dur:

Er... that'll be mine then.

There's no giggling - when you've spent good money, you don't time to do anything other than draw. Even my son when he was 12 got that.

[Rist]

My college life drawing classes always went without people 'giggling' and such. Even the most immature felt out of place and uncomfortable. Surprising what the naked body can do.

[gnarl]

I almost feel like it's beginning to be impractical for me to copy pictures of nudes, I feel so little progress from it(and i'm not in a rut, i never slowed down in progressing until recently). Whereas life drawing I can SEE the improvement pick up 10 fold. Though like you, I live in a rural area unfortunately.

I do understand the improtance of photo-ref, but it can really hinder you if that's your only practice.

I'm going to try sitting naked in front of a mirror, though that means a limit to the poses obviously. :(

[Flake]

1) When a model, either male or female, poses nude in front of the class, are there some guys or girls who like, give each other nudges / giggles and all that?
Yeah, but they're usually about 17. It wears off pretty quick when they realise they have to draw the naked dude and they are going to be graded on the results.

"Whoah, boobs!" tends to become "Whoah! awkward foreshortening of boobs.."
Impending failing of class tends to concentrate the mind wonderfully.

2) I assume the mode undresses in front of the class?
Nope. Behind a screen or in an adjoining room.

[Xeon_OND]

I don't mind private parts so much because they're just bits of the body, but I've got this horror vision that someone flips through my sketchbook (as in, non-arty person) and just sees all these penises :dur:
LOL, I've been thinking about that too. In future, if i ever practice human anatomy with all those drawings of nude female anatomy bodies and if my mom dust my cupboard / drawer, I dunno what's she's gonna think. I probably need to keep the stuff under lock. :nohope:

And many thanks to all those who answered my questions. It's an eye-opener for me. :D

[DavePalumbo]

I've been going to life drawing for about 14 years off and on and I don't ever remember anyone in the class being so rude or unprofessional as to giggle or nudge infront of the model. There have been times that people may comment (good or bad) after class in private, but it just wouldn't be tolerated in the classroom.

most models change in a separate room or area and wear a robe during breaks, but not always. It's a personal preference thing for the model

edit:

also, I think it's funny to see the fear-of-penis drawings. Making ken dolls is making an issue in my mind. I feel that drawing as you see is the object of working from life

[Kjesta]

also, I think it's funny to see the fear-of-penis drawings. Making ken dolls is making an issue in my mind. I feel that drawing as you see is the object of working from life

I'm not so much scared of penises myself, I can live with drawing them and have done so, but I'm a bit of a slow drawer and always go for they bits last because I think the arm muscles are SO much more interesting and blah. I still need to get rid of this "what will people think" thing, and I'd so do a sketchbook full of penises and vaginas, but I'm still too stuck in my "someone might see" mentality. Need to get out of there, without a doubt.

The most inspiring thing I've seen about this kind of thing was on the homepage of someone who did sculptures of the harpies in "End of Evangelion" - these pretty guys (http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq268/kld-kms/Anime-2/KK_EVA_16.jpg) - having pretty hardcore bondage sex and the like. There was a text that said that the artist had been doing art for so long, but was hindered by his own mind. Now he draws and creates whatever he wants, no matter how weird and "distasteful" it is. I didn't necessarily like the art, but the words stuck with me. It's not about drawing weird characters having weird sex or pages full of naughty bits, but about not letting society's conditioning hinder you in doing whatever you want to. If you want to let it out of your brain, just do it. (Yep, and I still have to get there.)

... Now I'm off to draw some naughty bits.

[MiniGoth]

No, the model disrobes elsewhere.

In the classes I was in, most people are serious about the work. If someone was disrupting the class like that, they'd be thrown out.