Evironment - Midnight Beloved

[Digital Backlot]

Nice Site ya got here. My first post. It's an oldy but a goody!


Lots of painting over a 3D image. I print them out into giclee canvas and then paint oil pant on to of that.
http://www.digitalbacklot.com/GalleryImages/Midnight.jpg

[Digital Backlot]

http://www.digitalbacklot.com/GalleryImages/Making.jpg

[darkcult]

So is the very first one painted in oils then?
How do you print them on canvas, what kind of printer do you use?
I like it ,but think more serious art circles would somehow consider that technique “cheating”.
I don't mind, i'm open minded he he...
Anyhoo..final result looks good.

[Digital Backlot]

Hehe

This process if far from "cheating" In fact I was recognized as one of the first artist to use the technique.

It goes like this.

I paint (oil paint) textures, like wood and brick and sky. so it's like about 40 little painting that need to be made for the image.

Then I scan them in one by one.

I model out the image in 3D, (this take about a month or two depending on the image. (this one took 5 months)

then I apply the oil panted textures on the 3D models. After I do lighting and more modeling, I have them printed at www.gicleeart.com archival inks on canvas like any other print.

The after overseeing the process, and get the final print, I oil paint even more details onto the image.

it's about a 7 8 month process. The resolutions are huge so that the final image is perfect. This one render took about 9 hours to render on a p4

Computer Graphic world (http://cgw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles&Subsection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=152515) featured the process a while back.

This process is not for the weak at heart, working in this resolution is crazy, you can't motion blur your way out of problems.

[Matt Elder]

I think this is what I've been looking for. Can you tell me a little bit more about the archival inks? What is the difference with just using a 'normal' laser printer?

[jezelf]

as a matter of discussion..

in my humble opinion - I don't fee this technique is cheating really. you have to remember that everything is still created by the artist. I don't expect some purists to agree, but then fair's, fair.

Theres evidence that Jan van Eyck 'Chancellor Rolin' (1436) and Durer's woodcut of a drawing aid in 1525, Hans Holbien's 'Ambassadors' (1533) and espeically Caravaggio in the late1590's - to name but a few - were all aware of optics to project in upside-down image on their canvas, and most probably used them to help create their work as it not only helped create more accurate elipses, but also to keep models in the right posistion for numerous sittings for their master pieces. when you see this in work - it looks like you're 'tracing' an image, which could have been considered as cheating thin those days, but theres still a hell of a lot of work to do to get to the finished piece.

Im pretty sure if these guys were alive today they would use modern methods to help them create their work - 3D only adds to creating perfection to me. depends on your style I suppose.

anway - Im a bit bias, coz Ive played around with this technique too.:) though I honestly dont see it as any more than another tool.

Digital Backlot - cool pic. have you got bump mapping/specular high-lights, or any other stuff like that in there on the surfaces?? I know what you mean about the hi res work - its makes me get caught up in so much detail. great though when its all finished.

the only crit I would say is that it looks like the FOV is a touch exaggerated? maybe intentional. nice all the same - much prefer the monchromatic - was what a last minute discistion? Im guessing it was, otherwise you might had saved time working in b&w with your oils.

thanks for showing us it.

best wishes
Jez.

[Digital Backlot]

jezelf


Very goo observations all around and good points.

Yes I do have some bump and som spec on the water and walls (not much though)

The Black and white was a last minite idea and yes I could have saved a lot of time.. but I did'nt know what I wanted until it was done. It was very much a go as I go process, It was very freeformed with no presketched idea.

As for the FOV, I did that on purpose to give it a bit of a dream like view and because I wanted it to be warped a bit. A few people have commented on it being to much but... it's just an artists choice I guess.

When I first tried to get Digital art like this into walk in galleries, it was very very hard. For one, there is no such thing as an original which makes it a hard medium to sell. The other thing is most painting galleries don't know how to explain something like this to a buyer.

I managed to get into B&R galleries (one of the larger galleries in LA county) and managed to sell a few. But with the galleries taking there cut and printing costs, I was'nt making much.

If anyone wants to do something like this for money, I'd go to EBay, a friend of mine has been making a killing on there and the gallery I was in told me they make 80% of the sales on Ebay so... There ya have it.

As for this sort of print resolution, you're playing with the big boys. It's crazy difficult to work in. I had to split the image into 4 pieces just to get the detail into the work, the piece it back together. I had to by a faster PC just to open the file!!

Art to me is something that is hard for other to duplicate. I don't care about the style, but it must be something that not just anyone can copy. This medium I'm working in requires many disciplines including, painting, Cg, photo, Lighting, modeling, digital painting and printing skills. It is a challenge but... the rusult I get bring comments as common as "I've never seen anything like this' how did you do it"

You'd have to see a final print, it's almost self illuminated and the colors are very strong, and the details (for the laymen) are unmatched. It's a very freeing medium and I hope more will try it out.

-JP

[Digital Backlot]

Matt Elder


the Inks are high qaulity and don't fade. The last a long time. You still have to keep it out of the direct sunlight... but it blows everything out of the water in terms of color correctness.

www.gicleeart.com has a killer price to (the cheapest and the best)

Just tell the that Joel Payne sent you and they'll give you a deal. But it's affordable to begin with.

He even send you free samples of your work. you just have to send him or email him an image!

Good luck

[jezelf]

Digital Backlot -

I guess it could still be 'original' if once the painting has been finished/sold you deleted all your working files? then the only thing thats left is the canvas print - which is then, the only one in exsistance?

I have wondered about this side of digital art since the day I started doing stuff in the medium. its just people's preconceptions. I wouldnt expect a lot of people to accept it. people are still having problems with Picasso being 'art' over a century later. it's a bummer.

anyway - sounds like its worth your time, and I wish you every success. e-bay is a good place to sell stuff. I even saw someone selling 'an old piece of rope' as art there.

best wishes
Jez

[JFS]

stunning. My only question is: How big is the resolution in pixels ? the black and white image you have there is 1500x833...
It'd be dreamy to have this image on the wall :-)

[Digital Backlot]

Originally posted by jezelf

I guess it could still be 'original' if once the painting has been finished/sold you deleted all your working files? then the only thing thats left is the canvas print - which is then, the only one in exsistance?

Jez

Yes, this is a practice that Digital painters are trying to get into but... People don't trust it as much as seeing the original. It's hard to verify years later. It being digital.. how do you certify something like that... They have to take you at good faith that you don't have backups or that you never deleted it it all. Whats worse is using the assets in another work.

7200X3000 is the DPI and that give me a 24" X 10" (it's small compared to my others)

Online Store (http://www.gicleeart.com/joelpayne.html)

Thanks for the kind words. I did manage to sell about 45 of them last Christmas at Borders. They told me I was the sellingest artist. I sold more there then in the walk in gallery.

I think the idea these days is, people want cheap prints they can put in expensive frames. The best advice I have for anyone wanting to sell there art is MAKE IT WOMEN FRIENDLY!!

Ladies are the market and make up about 80% of the painting buying market. They're the ones that decorate the homes... I learned that the hard way. Nobody will pick you up unless you have something that appeals to women.

-JP

[trevor]

id like to know how much you pay
i worked for 4 years at the 3rd largest giclee printing house. giclee is actually a bullshit word, they are printed on an iris 3047 and someone thought a french word would make it sound classy.
but the reason im asking yer price is because iris prints are severely outdated and newer machines can give you a cleaner pic in about 1/4 the time with better inks
(most iris inks will run when exposed to water, even a little steam can ruin them)

bottom line i know a few companies that use better printers, lower prices, more archival ink and a faster turnaround

pm me if you want any info:chug:

i could also give you the names of some other giclee printers that may get you a better price

great image though

[Digital Backlot]

40$ for a 32X32 it's worth it.

[marc-pierre]

interesting technique and stunning result - don't like the colour vers but the b&w one is just amazing

[L.Scrub]

Backlot, thats just stright up, bad ass!

I have been wanting to do something along the same line with a drawing of mine.

I have it scanned on my pc (11.75"X5.5" @ 600dbi), what I want to do is print it out (about 6'X 2'.5"), and Paint / Airbrush on top of it.

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/l_scrub/images/Path.jpg

The thing that I could never decide on was printing an outline on a plotter (cheaper, role of paper or canvas, and pens), or painting over everything by means of have it printed ($XXX.XX for one print).

How would you go about doing it?

[Digital Backlot]

L.Scrub


I'd go for a nice print that I'd paint over. You must understand... the guy that got me thinking about doing this "Thomas Kinkade...." sells his print (on a crappy ass piece of cardboard) and sells them for about 1,000 after adding a few dabs of paint... Theyr'e called "enhanced" giclee..

While I'm not a fan of Kinkade, but I do like his direction with making painting affordable. The trend for buy paintings is, people buy cheap prints and put them in expensive frames. (I TELL THE THRUTH ON THAT ONE)

So the more you paint over the print, the more it'll sell. Not only will it sell the image, but it'll sell the painting because it then becomes more unique the more you do. It adds that personal touch to a print adding value.

If you print something, there is no point to just print an outline then paint in the centers.. because once you've made a "print" then you're kinda cheating when compared to an original painted effort.

The stuff I'm doing however, takes more effort and more disciplines then the average oil painting so I want to make the prints as unique as possible because the buyer won't be able to buy an original of sorts. So I make the prints the origial by putting more effort into the enhancments of oil.

Hope that helps

[-The Swift-]

great work! really interesting process too!

keep it up! great!:chug: :chug:

[L.Scrub]

I think your right and the print would be a better option. I dont know alot about painting but I do know a pro. Anyway thank for the advice sir and keep up the good work.

[Rusty Red Robot]

I absolutely love both the monochromatic image and the final colored one. They're both gorgeous and have distinctive moods. Fantastic work!

[Digital Backlot]

For those who havn't noticed, The image is paying tribute to the Pirates of the Carribean ride.

Thanks everyone for the kind words. I'm partial to the black and white one myself. I did the oen in color because it tends to appeal to women more.

here is another image done with the same technique


http://digitalbacklot.com/GalleryImages/Firefly.jpg

[Shadowkiller]

Thats really amazing technique, This is the first time I've heard of it, But knowing me I've probley seen this art all over the place not knowing how its done. It reminds me of Paccso's technique of Cubeisem they both have the same time taking prosses but I'm sure they both have the rewarding finish producted. Love the work keep it up

[bgermain]

Double holy shit! Those are incredible. Your process sounds waaay too involved for my short attention span so I'll just admire your work.

[Digital Backlot]

LOL Thanks for the comments, that made my day. The process is new as far as I can tell I'm the first guy to do it.

The technique was talked about and marked in the history books of sorts in a past issue of computer graphics world

CGW Article (http://cgw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles&Subsection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=152515)

two more

http://www.gicleeart.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/littletown.jpg

http://www.gicleeart.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/colors_venice.jpg